(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/CRITICAL%20Cartoons%20and%20Fun%20Stuff/PeytonChristmas.jpg)
(http://www.jsca.org/images/mayor_payton1.jpg)
'Twas the night before Christmas
And all through the town,
Not a person was moving
No bus could be found.
The transit dreamers,
Were snug in their beds,
While visions of streetcars
Danced through their heads.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2064/2212094550_52e961de84.jpg)
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/RAILROAD%20Depots%20and%%3Cbr%20/%3E20Stations/blank555.jpg)
Our station is empty
It sleeps through the night.
No headrests and pillows
So restful and white.
The Skyway had been
of their very own choosing,
So tempting and good
There was just no refusing.
The evening they'd spent
Seemed wrong for this Season.
Since Peyton killed Transit
Without purpose or reason.
On Commuter Rail,
So spacious and bright,
All might have sang,
Christmas carols that night.
"'Tis a most happy Christmas,"
They’d sing with delight,
"Travel at its best --
What a wonderful night."
And when it came time
That Christmas was there,
We had nothing to show,
And few who would care.
As to Town Center they sped
On through the storm,
A city without transit,
And Freeways the norm.
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/Transporte%20Bus%20Truck%20HIGHWAY/10-5-101inLA.jpg)
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/Transporte%20Bus%20Truck%20HIGHWAY/TPABuswayRetail.jpg)
No thanks for our train,
So streamlined and fine,
No streetcars, no buses,
Just Peyton sublime!
"This is," we had said,
"The one way to go --
The Double Track Route
For comfort, we know."
Then without heeding the call,
As he'd turn out our lights,
"It's a Peyton Christmas...
For all a GOOD night."
GUESS WHO DONE IT?
Very nice Ock! :D
Hilarious, yet sad. Merry Christmas, Ock!
no light rail for jax
no train whistles sing...
how sad for the boy prince
who thought he'd be king.
Just did some quick addition based on info. on this website.
http://www.usmayors.org/mainstreeteconomicrecovery/stimulussurveyparticipants.asp (http://www.usmayors.org/mainstreeteconomicrecovery/stimulussurveyparticipants.asp)
Here is a sample of cities that are requesting Streetcar/Light rail funding from the Economic stimulus act:
Albuquerque: $13.3 million
Atlanta: $145 million
Charlotte: $110 million
Charleston: $78 million
Denver: $267.2 million
Miami: $810 million
Portland: $75 million
Salt Lake City: $395 million
San Jose: $146 million
St. Louis: over $1 billion
St. Paul: $10 million
and of course.....
JACKSONVILLE $0
(http://oldtoolsforsale.com/smiley6/cry29.gif)That so sucks!
of course if anyone actually takes the time to look at the website from above, they would note that Jacksonville's list includes
$10 million for Amtrak
$12.5 million for transit
$15 million for airports
...and guess what....only $25 million for streets/roads....all for signage and resurfacing.
Ock, you may also want to note the $20 million proposed for cleanup of McCoy's Creek and Hogan's Creek
Is that better people?
I appreciate you sticking up for the mayor, Tufsu, but I'm afraid you have missed the point. I did take a look at the website. All of the items under Jacksonville have to do with infrastructure improvements, but absolutely ZERO will stimulate future growth and help us out of this recession. I can maybe make an exception for the Transportation center, but other than that there will be jobs created and once the task is done, then what? The stadium HVAC upgrade is needed, but it will not impact future growth of small businesses along Bay Street. The creeks are in need of clean up, but will not stimulate new housing developments along them. New corporations will not choose to build headquarters here just because the road signs are better. We are looking at a once in a life time opportunity to do something that will have a positive economic impact on the city for more than 1-2 years. What our mayor has submitted is just not going to do that. He is near sighted and lacks a vision for the city. His list tries to make up for everything that he has failed to fund in the city's annual budget. Things that should have been done but weren't because we had to build a new parking garage or fund the Jacksonville Journey. No Tufsu, it is not better.
Quoteof course if anyone actually takes the time to look at the website from above, they would note that Jacksonville's list includes
$10 million for Amtrak
$12.5 million for transit
$15 million for airports
...and guess what....only $25 million for streets/roads....all for signage and resurfacing.
Ock, you may also want to note the $20 million proposed for cleanup of McCoy's Creek and Hogan's Creek
Is that better people?
$10 Million for Amtrak was not part of the $100 Million, it was the citys part of JTC for Amtrak, now rather then a City contribution, it will be stolen from our BJP or Transit money.
12.5 Million for Transit, same story, JTC money, $5 Million of it to beg Greyhound to leave the new Courthouse area. Money already promised, will now come from our BJP or Transit Money.
While I favor McCoys Creek clean-up, there are federal grants of all kinds for this, we don't need Transit money to do it.
This guy is robbing our future.
OCKLAWAHA
Here's the problem folks....the stimulus package is for 2009/2010...that means projects that put people to work RIGHT NOW.
Yes, it would be nice if these things had lasting effects....and some of them will....for example, cleaning up the creeks makes the area more attractive for new development....and clearly the transportation center is the base from which to build a new system.
But guess what....when the mayors/governors talk about pressing needs, this is primarily maintenance of existing infrastructure....so we don't have any more bridges collapse like I-35....these projects don't create long-term jobs and they don't encourage development either....but they are necessary and have been underfunded for too long!
BTW...I am by no means sticking up for the mayor...it just seems that some of you folks are never happy!
QuoteHere is a sample of cities that are requesting Streetcar/Light rail funding from the Economic stimulus act:
Charleston: $78 million
What rail system is Charleston asking $78 million for? I thought we were ahead of them? Have they even completed a feasibility study?
QuoteHere's the problem folks....the stimulus package is for 2009/2010...that means projects that put people to work RIGHT NOW.
I don't have a problem with Petyon asking for money to improve local roads. I'm also happy to see Hogans and McCoys Creek cleanups on the list. My fear is the idea of existing and future transit money being taken away to improve local roads instead. Ready to go or not, that's a foolish move it goes down that way.
Looking at the requests, it seems that many cities are presenting real wish lists to get things off the ground. Its puzzling to see Charleston ask for $78 million for rail and we're further along. Its also weird to see Congressman Mica keep telling us to request rail money NOW and we're still slow to react.
My view is why not add a request for rail funding to the current list? The worst thing that can happen is Obama saying no. Its not all about construction. Even if you can't break ground tomorrow (maybe it takes six months to a year or so), design jobs also put people back to work with saleries that can help boost the local economy. If you don't ask, you'll never know what type of answer you'll receive. Given that we'll have an administration focusing on green jobs, alternative energy and mass transit, we should at least have the courage to make a request.
My ultimate hope is that the administration evaluates these lists and places a higher priority on funding the projects that go hand in hand with their campaign platform. Such a move would force us to revamp our list and priorities.
Tufsu defending the Mayor on transit is pathetic on this issue bashing him is the only reasonable course of action.
Is it safe to assume that we're asking the Obama administration to fund certain road projects 100%? If this is the case, why not make a request to fully fund the JTC or dredge the St. Johns River to accomodate larger ships? I know most have written off the skyway, but was the leg to JMS designed but not built because of costs? If built, it would at least justify the expense of the first half by substantially upping the ridership. Why not make a request for this extension or the station along Riverside Avenue? The worse they can say is no, which puts us in the same place we're already at.
I don't know if bashing Peyton is the answer, but there has to be a way to get some decent transit requests added on the list.
and bashing him has been successful so far?
I recommend that you all show up and make your views known during two important studies, currently underway:
1. Envision 2035 - this is an update to the region's long range transportation plan and sets priorities
http://www.firstcoastmpo.com/envision2035/ (http://www.firstcoastmpo.com/envision2035/)
2. Reality Check - a regional vision just getting underway by ULI and the NEFRC
http://www.regi.biz/ (http://www.regi.biz/)
truth is, we need to keep the regional transit studies going....so we can apply for FTA funds under the transportation reauthorization bill, which won't be approved before fall 2009 at the earliest.
I take back bashing him as the only reasonable course of action. I do think accurately describing his record on the issue would sound the same as bashing.
Quoteand bashing him has been successful so far?
I recommend that you all show up and make your views known during two important studies, currently underway:
I agree. Bashing Peyton is not the answer for improving the community. The answer is to keep vocally promoting the benefits of smart growth, even if it means pointing out that the current path is incorrect. For all the slack it caused local officials, we were successful in getting JTA to reconsider their BRT plan. That never would have happened by not publicly questioning the planning process. So its very important to participate in these events. These events are a chance to "poison the groundwater".
As for the FTA, I would hope that we would one day have to courage to move forward with a starter line (light rail, streetcar, whatever), without the FTA (ie. Houston Metrorail, Austin Metrorail, New Jersey RiverLine, Detroit commuter rail, etc.). Things move much faster when you use your own money. Get the starter up and running to show local example of a real system and then apply for federal federal help to expand that starter.
With this type of method, you can have something up and running within two or three years, as opposed to going through FTA hoops for a decade or so.
Better yet....organize.
While attending visioning meetings should be encouraged, the irresponsible movement of funding sources now should not be accepted and overlooked. Venting and bashing the mayor or plan online won't change the immediate outcome, but expressing your concerns to the council in large numbers will.
This site receives thousands of unique hits a month. Its also linked to the front page of Jacksonville.com. We should take advantage of this and lobby the council against approving the plan to redirect mass transit funding sources for additional isolated road improvements. All of these projects should be immediately be re-evaluated based on merit before any of them move forward. The benefits of shifting the $100 million to rail should be considered as well. Lobby to have our transportation projects ranked by cost, long term transportation and economic benefits. Then let the chips fall where they may.
Quote from: tufsu1 on December 24, 2008, 03:18:32 PM
of course if anyone actually takes the time to look at the website from above, they would note that Jacksonville's list includes
$10 million for Amtrak
$12.5 million for transit
$15 million for airports
...and guess what....only $25 million for streets/roads....all for signage and resurfacing.
Ock, you may also want to note the $20 million proposed for cleanup of McCoy's Creek and Hogan's Creek
Is that better people?
I referred to streetcar and light rail projects. All of the figures I listed refer to light rail and/or streetcar projects in the respective cities.
** An airport doesn't classify as either.
** The JTC is not going to have either a streetcar line or a light/commuter rail line running to it, so how does that count?
** the transit money is for JTA bus transit projects or the JTC. Again, still no streetcar/rail projects.
** As for creek cleanups, etc. That has nothing to do with this topic and the other cities requested similiar items, not just transit alone.
So, the $25 mmm for streets/roads is STILL $25 mm more than is being requested of transit of a light rail/ Streetcar nature.
After reading through the request of a few cities, I'm not buying the "ready to go" argument. Miami is requesting $150 million to extend the Metromover to the Marlin's proposed stadium. They didn't even have a stadium site a year ago, much less plans already drawn up for a peoplemover extension to it. They claim it will create 3000 jobs. This is the same thing as extending the skyway to Jacksonville Municipal Stadium.
After conducting a PRELIMINARY feasibility study last year, Charleston, SC is asking $25 million for commuter rail track upgrades on Norfolk Southern ROW, $45 million for commuter rail trains and $7.8 million for a rail intermodal center. This would be the same as asking for commuter rail cars and upgrades along the FEC corridor after JTA's study proved that its a feasible transit option.
QuoteA preliminary study last year concluded that the idea was feasible. Cost comparisons between rail and road projects cited at the COG committee also are persuasive.
Widening the interstate from Summerville to Charleston by two lanes could cost $45 million a mile, or nearly $1 billion for the length of the 21-mile segment. In contrast, preliminary estimates put the cost of a commuter rail at $75 million.
Charleston Mayor Joseph P. Riley Jr., a strong advocate for commuter rail, also makes the point that "you can only widen the interstate so much."
http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/mar/14/fast_track_commuter_rail33776/
QuoteCharleston Mayor Joe Riley reaffirmed his support Tuesday for creating a commuter rail line to the suburbs.
"It's not some futuristic thing," Riley told more than 100 people attending a meeting of the Charleston Green Committee at John Wesley United Methodist Church in West Ashley. "We need it right now."
http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/sep/10/riley_affirms_backing_commuter_rail53570/
The study for streetcars earlier this year, estimated that a DT to Five Points line would cost between $65 - $85 million. We should toss in a request for its funding as well. Ultimately, whether these projects get funded or not is unknown at this point. However, this along with Mica's and Brown's calls for us to get on board with the commuter rail movement, is proof that COJ should add these things to the list. After all, the worst thing the government could say is....no.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 24, 2008, 05:31:55 PM
QuoteHere is a sample of cities that are requesting Streetcar/Light rail funding from the Economic stimulus act:
Charleston: $78 million
What rail system is Charleston asking $78 million for? I thought we were ahead of them? Have they even completed a feasibility study?
QuoteHere's the problem folks....the stimulus package is for 2009/2010...that means projects that put people to work RIGHT NOW.
Looking at the requests, it seems that many cities are presenting real wish lists to get things off the ground. Its puzzling to see Charleston ask for $78 million for rail and we're further along. Its also weird to see Congressman Mica keep telling us to request rail money NOW and we're still slow to react.
The $78 million is for a 22 mile commuter rail line between DT Charleston and the DT of the inland suburb of Summerville. [ I mispoke earlier when I said Light Rail, but that is how the website listed it].
There is a study currently underway on the project, but it is the
THIRD study since 2006. Each study is more in-depth (ie costs) than the prior one. Also, the current one (unlike the first two) includes research on a SECOND line between DT Charleston and the suburb of Goose Creek.
All of the 22 miles right of way is owned by Norfolk Southern, and they are open to a track-sharing arrangement. The line is in poor condition, which the $78 million would pay to upgrade. Currently the track carries only one freight train daily.
While the metro area as a whole has a density of 1,833 per square mile, the areas along this route range from 3,000 to 10,000 per square mile. DT Charleston has an employment base of 41,000. Those numbers are quite strong, and don't even include the millions of tourists that visit the area. The rail line runs parallel to the most congested highway in the region, I-26.
Mayor Riley is a strong proponent of mass transit in general, and rail in particular. For example, when the new Cooper River Bridge was designed about six years back, he would not approve it on Charleston's behalf, unless it had load capacity to support not only the auto traffic, but could also support rail running underneath it.
By any measure, I think you have to say Charleston is substantially ahead of Jacksonville on rail transit.
Money, of course, is always the biggest issue. That's why this economic stimulus package is timed very well from Charleston's perspective. Preparation + Opportunity = Progress.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 24, 2008, 05:31:55 PM
The worst thing that can happen is Obama saying no.
It seems to me that for some people in this city, the worst thing that could happen is we get rail funding approved.
I'm currently looking at Charleston's rail route. Its not a bad one indeed. I hadn't given it much thought but I may have to add Charleston to my short list.
Another thing that is interesting is the amount of money cities are asking for. Despite Miami having nearly 400k less residents, they are asking for $3.2 billion. Miami-Dade County is asking for another $1.5 billion. Charleston is asking for $1.07 billion. I guess we must be already well off because Jax's requests total up to $246.5 million. Btw, I love Charleston's list. There are a ton of requests for park development and enhancement, pedestrian bridges, bikeways, two-way street conversions, parking decks, reuse/redevelopment funds, etc. It looks like nearly every unfunded project that's been conceived in that town is on the list for consideration. I know Barton's Downtown Action Plan has a ton of unfunded dreams on it. Perhaps those should be added as well. Also, instead of taking BJP transit money for Peyton's road improvement plan, maybe he should toss his wish list on this as well. These places are asking for billions. What's another $100 million to the $246.5 we currently have?
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on December 24, 2008, 11:18:16 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on December 24, 2008, 05:31:55 PM
The worst thing that can happen is Obama saying no.
It seems to me that for some people in this city, the worst thing that could happen is we get rail funding approved.
Scary, isn't it. :-[
- Tampa's list of requests add up to $110 million. Most of their desired projects are for road construction and water lines. Zero for any type of transit enhancements.
- Savannah is asking for $350 million. Interesting requests include a Children's Museum and money for neighborhood commercial corridor revitalization efforts (Main Street Springfield anyone?).
- Orlando's requested projects add up to $484 million. They have commuter rail station funding listed under "streets/roads". There is also a large amount of request for homeless shelters and social service improvements.
I know I'm getting off topic, but if you have the time, its interesting to see what type of projects different cities have in mind. These requests are all over the field.
http://www.usmayors.org/mainstreeteconomicrecovery/stimulussurveyparticipants.asp