Quote from: downtownparks on December 19, 2008, 04:51:36 PM
Sounds like some great properties you had there Chris.
LOL. For the neighborhood, they actually were very nice. I would always go with central HVAC, put in new electrical service, etc. etc. Compared to 99% of the apartment buildings in Springfield, mine were much nicer. And especially West of Main and South of 8th, I really tried to make those super-nice. 1719 Perry Street was one I renovated, and sold to a doctor from Georgia. Dunno if he still owns it or not, but go look at it and you will see what I mean...nicest thing for 4 blocks around. And believe it or not, code enforcement hassled me CONSTANTLY about that property, and it's really nice.
Even the stuff I had over on E. 1st by A. Phillip Randolph, and the North end of Hubbard Street, 16th St., 14th St., etc., I even made them really nice, especially when I first started. Eventually, after the 435,576th time I had to re-do it all 6 months later because the tenants trashed the place, I "got the picture", and started putting in the $150 used fridge/stove combo from Jerry's Appliances, and the indoor/outdoor carpet, etc., but they were still nicer than anything else around there in the early 2000's.
And I guess I should make it clear, I was into buying apartment buildings, I never saw the single family houses as being a particularly good investment, because the rent in that area can't sustain the carrying costs for the 10 years you'll have to hold onto it to make any money in Springfield, unless there are multiple units. And apartments are really a whole different ballgame, especially in that area, so you have to keep that in mind. For whatever reason, the tenants get bitter when you evict them for nonpayment, and the first thing they usually do is go down to legal aid to try and stall the summary eviction, and then they call code enforcement to see if they can't trump up some stuff to either give them a witholding defense, or to get their security deposit back. The judges know this scam well, and don't pay any attention to it if the tenants miss the deadline for depositing the back rent into the clerk's registry, but code enforcement actually takes that B.S. seriously.
I've had tenants put holes in walls, tear up carpet, break smoke detectors, and then call code enforcement and tell them it was already that way when they moved in. Meanwhile, I still have all the receipts for the installation of all this stuff brand new, from a few months before that. You'd think code enforcement would say "gee, this guy has the paid invoices for installing smoke detectors, and now they're missing, and the tenants are the only ones with access to the unit, and they're pissed because they're getting evicted...hmmm...is anything adding up here??? Nawwwwwww, I'll just fine the owner anyway."
And the whole thing REALLY heated up when I got into a pretty nasty argument with David Roe, who was the code enforcement officer in Springfield at the time, and after that COJ just hounded me incessantly. The City knew where I lived, knew my phone numbers, etc., but would always send violation notices for silly stuff (trash in the yard from vagrants, broken windows that someone had just broken a day before, smoke detectors, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum) to vacant properties, or rentals, and then go to the hearings I never got notice of and get these ridiculous $250/day fines running. Then I would find out about it like 6 months or a year later, and have to file suit against the city for Declaratory Judgment and have them overturned. Wash, rinse, repeat. You'd think they'd learn after the umpteenth time they got smacked down in court, especially because I never had to pay them a single dime for any of it, it was all just B.S. and got tossed the minute a judge looked at it. Now I just found out two weeks ago about one they filed in 2007, for a property I hadn't owned for months, and then they apparently mailed the notice to a property I sold in June of 2004. So here we go again.
I mean, it's their money, I guess they can spend it however they like. Sure doesn't cost me anything, I'm a 3rd year law student and do most of it myself, and all of my family are lawyers, so what I can't do myself I still get done for free. I think this time, I'm going to attach David Roe personally, and argue abuse of process and that he isn't acting within the scope of his employment, and then demand attorneys fees and costs under 57.105. Let's see how he likes being screwed with the same way he does to others...
But anyway, look, the point is the City is ridiculous. Code Enforcement, JFRD, and that giant violation of procedural due process rights that everyone calls the "DART" program, all just loooooove to hassle you, even when they don't have a leg to stand on. The owner of this club needs to fight back. Hell, if this is still going on after I take the bar in February, I'll be glad do it for free just to screw with them. COJ is utterly ridiculous.
Wow. That is awful. I was considering buying investment property in Springfield but that really gives me pause. I have never had such problems in Riverside. I would sue Roe personally as you suggested and report him to his supervisors including the Mayor.
BTW, are good tenants that hard to find in Springfield?
RSG, I have lived her for 5 years, I have never had a code notification, fine, or any other action from the city. I also didn't when I owned my rental in Arlington.
I got you. Perhaps all is not as it seems then.
In any event, if the bankers ever start coming off the money, I would like to buy something in Springfield. I have always liked the neighborhood, even in its worst condition in the late 70s and early 80s, and would like to help be a part of the resurgence. My main regret is that I could not buy my grandparent's old home a few years back before the "developers" bought it and had it torn down by neglect.
Its too bad it was torn down. We tried to reach out to the folks that own my wife's great grand parents home over on W 7th, and they had no interest in talking about selling it. Its a bummer. Classic Springfield story. 2000 Sqft single family is now being used as a triplex.
From what I have seen Code and Dart do not act arbitrarily, and think they are typically used well, with the notable exception of all of the recent night club actions. I think a good tool in the fight against crime and blight is being misused.
It was just torn down a few months ago too. I called the clowns who owned it repeatedly (they lived in Kentucky yet owned land in Springfield for some reason - probably some stupid get rich quick scheme for which they were woefully unprepared) and they acted like they might sell but would never get back to me on a price. Then, the City condemned it and it was torn down shortly thereafter. It was very sad for everyone. Even though they had not lived there for 30 years, the family had resided in that block of Springfield for about 60 years before that.
I could have bought it a few years back for just $40,000 but I passed on it to buy a multi-family elsewhere. Had I known it would have been torn down, I would have bought the home instead.
It is ridiculous that the City lets these buffoons sit on these homes so long and do absolutely nothing to maintain them and then comes along and demands that they be torn down all the sudden. Where were they 3-5 years ago when things might have been different? Heck, judging by the looks of the outside, this structure was not even properly condemned.
This also reminds me of the Lampru Court Apartments debacle. What a waste and a shame!
Preservation clearly is not a priority for our City "leaders". There are strong grass roots movements for preservation in Jacksonville but they unfortunately have not yet been able to exert much political influence or gain much power with the possible exception of the Delaney administration.
Quote from: RiversideGator on December 21, 2008, 04:04:21 PM
BTW, are good tenants that hard to find in Springfield?
Honestly, I'd say the tenants in Springfield are like 50/50, whereas San Marco or Riverside would be 99/1. Some Springfield tenants are good hard working families, and you will find some people who have lived in a building 10 years before you bought it, and will be there 10 years after you sell it. Those are keepers.
But then you run into a lot of wanna-be-scam-artists too, and you also run into a lot of people with good references etc., who still wind up defaulting on the rent anyway. At the end of the day, despite other people in this thread who want to argue with me and make veiled references otherwise, the bottom line is that this IS a very low-income neighborhood (when have you heard Riverside or S.M. called the "Fried Chicken District"?), and those are the kind of people you're going to be dealing with as renters. You will become very familiar with evictions.
And the thing that threw me for a loop was, when they don't pay the rent and you file for an eviction, they get really bitter and angry about it, and trash the place, call code enforcement, take your appliances with them when they leave, etc. etc. That reaction is pretty common over there, and I never understood it. That's the equivalent of me not paying my amex bill, and then when they cut off my card I go trash their office. It's ridiculous, and is just a whole other culture that I don't understand.
I also had some properties in Murray Hill, and had a MUCH MUCH MUCH better experience there. I never had a single eviction, nobody trashed anything, nobody stole anything, never had any code enforcement issues, etc. I definitely will never own anything in Springfield again, at least until this cleanup/gentrification that everyone has been talking about for the last 30 years finally happens.
When you rent to the bottom of the barrel, you get bottom of the barrel issues. Nobody is saying Springfield is easy, but you were doing things in a manner that is the same ole, same ole of the last 30 years, and you were upset when you will got the results of the last 30 years.
Code enforcement is complaint driven. They do not throw darts at a map and then go out and inspect. They answer complaints. Code enforcement is most definitely used by organizations and private citizens to try to accomplish certain goals. Haven't paid rent for a while and want to avoid being thrown out? Call code enforcement. Don’t like what someone is doing with their house? Rather than ask them, just call out code enforcement. Don’t like a certain business? Make a call and see what happens. Want that empty house gone so you can get the lot cheap? Go ahead and call code enforcement. It may take some time, but it will work.
It is hard not to see that once an organization within Springfield decided to put the condemned houses into the cities system and push that “something be done†the results…well the result speaks for itself. It isn’t the mayor’s office, it isn’t written somewhere that the historic buildings must be demolished, it is just how the laws, how the system works.
The same works for businesses. Once the business is in the system, it is hard to get it out unless the right person speaks up for you. This comment:
QuoteWhen the officer arrived he asked me where the graffiti was located. The next question was "Do you think the kids at The Pearl did it"? We politely told the officer we go to The Pearl and the people that frequent them aren't gangbangers.
Once the business is in the system, you can plan for more of the same. Also, any way to see if the officer that made the comment has worked through the security fund as well? The money behind "private security funds" often sets the tone for the officers who work it. (No, I do not mean SPAR Council itself in this case.)
I don't know what area of Springfield you're referring to, but overall, this area has changed 10fold in the past 10 years. True, there's still a few pockets of the low-end...but generally, this is NOT the case here. I'm also not sure where your rental properties were...but if they were in the low-end, then that's what you'll get as renters. There is a need for decent rental properties for the middle to high end of the scale...and that's where you'll find the renters that are more likely to take care of the place and to pay their rent on time.
Quote from: downtownparks on December 21, 2008, 04:29:14 PM
RSG, I have lived her for 5 years, I have never had a code notification, fine, or any other action from the city. I also didn't when I owned my rental in Arlington.
Arlington is a whole different ballgame, you're renting to middle-income families and J.U. students over there, you can't compare that in any way to Springfield. And what type of property do you own in Springfield, it's probably one single family house, right? And if you live there, then of course you have no code issues...LOL...you're not going to call code enforcement on yourself, right? That's a little different than when you have 30 apartment units, none of which you live at, and you're dealing with Springfield renters.
I swear, there's this patented 4-step bag of tricks they pull out when you have to evict them, 1: They go to Three Rivers and get them to send you nasty letters about how the tenant never got a 3-day notice or whatever when you know you sent it (just ignore these), 2: They call code enforcement in retaliation (which sucks, because you can't ignore them, and everything they're complaining about is normally stuff the tenants themselves broke), 3: They write these ridiculous 12-page handwritten sob-stories to the judge saying why they shouldn't be kicked out (which is fine, because the judges ignore these for you), and 4: When the Writ is finally issued, they steal your appliances and anything not bolted down on the way out. Almost every eviction I did, the tenants pulled at least 3 of these 4 things on me, and usually all 4. I think there must be some kind of "how to screw your landlord" school that they all go to, that or they teach it to each other.
Anyway, RiversideGator is talking about buying rentals there, and he needs to get opinions from other landlords. I can tell you it's a whole different experience than just buying a single-family house, putting up a fence around it, and living there. If I was going to do it over again, I'd just get one or two nice buildings in Riverside, or maybe a bunch of bungalows in Murray Hill, and avoid all the hassles.
Quote from: downtownparks on December 22, 2008, 08:45:22 AM
When you rent to the bottom of the barrel, you get bottom of the barrel issues. Nobody is saying Springfield is easy, but you were doing things in a manner that is the same ole, same ole of the last 30 years, and you were upset when you will got the results of the last 30 years.
That's not true at all. If I were doing "same old same old", there would have been no appliances, air handlers, condensors, etc. for the tenants to steal all the time, since I would just buy a piece of crap building for $40k, let it stay derelict, and rent the units out for $250/mo to any drug dealer who can pay in cash. Instead, I came in and really tried to improve things and make the places nice, and got a pile of headaches in return.
I got a newsflash for you: Despite your obvious sense of denial, ITS A LOW INCOME NEIGHBORHOOD and those are the types of people you're dealing with. You can build the friggin' Taj Mahal over there with 10 a/c units and 47 plasma TV's, and guess what? You're STILL going to wind up with crappy tenants, you're still going to have to do evictions, you're still going to have to combat theft and vagrancy, etc. etc. etc.
It's not my fault Springfield is what it is, hey, I came in and gave it ole' college try and tried to make it better. Quit shooting the messenger, I'm just telling RiversideGator what he's in for, and I'm being honest about it. You've got some rose-colored glasses on about this issue, which is natural because you live there, but still...he needs to know what he's in for with renters in that kind of neighborhood.
Quote from: strider on December 22, 2008, 08:54:35 AM
Code enforcement is complaint driven.
You hit the nail SQUARELY on the head. Code enforcement only comes out when someone calls them. In my case, I was running into the "Springfield two-step" with the crappy tenants you wind up with in neighborhoods like that, and pulling stunts like taking down the smoke detectors, breaking windows, and then calling code enforcement on you is one of the first things they do in retaliation when they get served.
In the Pearl's case, someone keeps calling in complaints as well, although they don't have tenants that they're evicting, so I can't imagine who would be making the calls. A competitor?
In any event, my problem with code-enforcement is that the office is staffed with people who you can just tell they always wanted to be Cops, or be in the Marines or something, but they couldn't make the cut, and so now being a code enforcement officer was the only thing they could swing to get a power trip. I found it entertaining when it turned out that Dennis Rader was a code enforcement officer...I coulda seen that one coming. Bottom line is, they are not well-qualified people, they get ZERO training in the law, they are on major power-trips, and they take complaints that are obviously B.S. way too seriously.
Quote from: jbm32206 on December 22, 2008, 08:54:43 AM
I don't know what area of Springfield you're referring to, but overall, this area has changed 10fold in the past 10 years. True, there's still a few pockets of the low-end...but generally, this is NOT the case here. I'm also not sure where your rental properties were...but if they were in the low-end, then that's what you'll get as renters. There is a need for decent rental properties for the middle to high end of the scale...and that's where you'll find the renters that are more likely to take care of the place and to pay their rent on time.
Well admittedly, I've been out of it for a couple years, but I still drive through there every so often to see what nice things the City has stupidly turned into vacant lots, and with the exception of the 20 or so new $500k fake "old homes" they've built, the new half-dead palm trees along the first half of main street, and then a handful of other properties that have had decent renovations, it really looks like same-old place to me. Yes there are some nice houses, but there were always nice houses.
The problem is, none of them are more than a literal stone's throw away from some crackhouse that's falling in on itself, and there are still stolen winn-dixie shopping carts full of crap parked all over the place, and a good 1/3rd of the structures are still condemned, or should be condemned, and so on and so forth. The real problems with the neighborhood, the kind that make a prospective purchaser tell their realtor "No effin' way, get me outta' here!", and make a prospective renter ignore any rentals in the area, are all still present.
My properties were all south of MLK, and many were south of 8th, and all of them were in Springfield proper. And I think we're having a misunderstanding here, because I was really talking about the rental market, and I tried to make it clear I was talking about apartment buildings. I never got into buying single-family houses, those are a different story, because you're right in saying that you can luck into good tenants for those. But then you don't make any money, so it's a Catch-22. But for apartments, the pool of renters in that neighborhood is just dismal.
Those of us who are defending Springfield, are referring to Historic Springfield, of which is only one square mile. It would seem that the majority of where your properties were, are beyond that. Although I'm not sure where on 8th you owned. Therefore, yes, it seems there's a misunderstanding.
Well, some of the most trouble I ever had with tenants was at 1719 Perry Street, and that was definitely in the historic area. I also had a couple places on 1st that were in the historic area.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the historic designation is 1st through 8th on the west side of main, and 1st through 3rd on the east side of main, or something like that? It's been awhile, I forget.
Both houses across the street from me are rentals. They have been almost continuously occupied for my entire time here, and while I wont claim that some of the renters left it in better shape than others, generally speaking, they were all good neighbors. Now they are being used for Proton Beam, and we have had nothing but a great experience with them.
As far as the code issues, the house next to me is a huge gutted house. The owner keeps the lot clean, the debris out of site, and communicates with me regularly. He goes far above and beyond what I even expect, and from what I have heard, he has had no code complaints. The previous owner never mowed, made no effort to do anything. The only time I turned him into code was during the 2004 Hurricane season when large chunks of roofing material were flying off his house and slamming against mine. Yet he had a notice hung on his door at least monthly.
Also, Arlington is different only in perception. My renters were good, but I had to turn down about 10 people before them because I wanted to put someone in my house that wouldn't suck it up. I did not accept section 8 candidates, and did full back ground and credit checks on them all. You have to protect yourself. When you do, you end up getting screwed a little less.
Quote from: downtownparks on December 22, 2008, 10:20:12 AM
Both houses across the street from me are rentals. They have been almost continuously occupied for my entire time here, and while I wont claim that some of the renters left it in better shape than others, generally speaking, they were all good neighbors. Now they are being used for Proton Beam, and we have had nothing but a great experience with them.
As far as the code issues, the house next to me is a huge gutted house. The owner keeps the lot clean, the debris out of site, and communicates with me regularly. He goes far above and beyond what I even expect, and from what I have heard, he has had no code complaints. The previous owner never mowed, made no effort to do anything. The only time I turned him into code was during the 2004 Hurricane season when large chunks of roofing material were flying off his house and slamming against mine. Yet he had a notice hung on his door at least monthly.
Also, Arlington is different only in perception. My renters were good, but I had to turn down about 10 people before them because I wanted to put someone in my house that wouldn't suck it up. I did not accept section 8 candidates, and did full back ground and credit checks on them all. You have to protect yourself. When you do, you end up getting screwed a little less.
I never had any properties that I just let sit vacant, so I'm not sure about how that all works, but I think my original point that you aren't acknowledging is that, in my experience, Code Enforcement is more often than not being used as a tool for whoever is complaining to get what they want at someone else's expense, even when there's nothing wrong with the property.
Tenants make B.S. complaints constantly to improve their standing when you're suing them for eviction or suing them for back rent, and then neighbors make B.S. complaints all the time because they either just plain don't like you, or because they want something from you, or because they're just 90 years old and have nothing better to do for entertainment. Then once the ball gets rolling the power-tripping code enforcement officers keep coming back again and again to hassle you, even when there's no basis.
Out of all the hassles I had with them, there was NOT ONE SINGLE CITATION that was actually legitimate. Every single one was B.S., and was struck down. And this most recent judgment that they apparently got against me in 2007 for $14k worth of violations at a property I don't even own anymore will be struck down shortly too.
I'm fed up with it all, and the owner of the Pearl has every right to be fed up as well. Code Enforcement allows themselves to be used by other self-interested parties, and the officers themselves are uneducated, poorly trained power-trippers, who get off on hassling and harassing people. And once you get on their radar, they won't stop on their own.
And as to Springfield generally, I'm really not trying to insult your neighborhood (even though I've been a property owner there myself, and certainly have the right to my opinion), but with that said, you have got to acknowledge the reality of the situation. I bet that I can hop in the car right now and drive over there with my digital camera, and find all of the following within a very short time period:
1: Stolen shopping carts full of vagrant crap sitting around.
2: Condemned, DART'ed, or boarded up buildings within a block or two of any given address anywhere in Springfield.
3: Live chickens and stray dogs running around.
4: Fried chicken bones on the sidewalks.
5: Empty malt liquor bottles laying around.
6: Used hypodermic needles laying around.
7: Old used tires laying all over the place.
8: Vacant lots all over, where there was just a house or apartment building standing until recently, which now have 4' high grass and are being used as illegal trash dumps.
And if it weren't for the fact that I'm going home to my parents' place for the holidays and can't wait around until evening to do it, I would be able to add to the list:
9: At least a couple prostitutes in plain sight, and
10: A few drug dealers in plain sight.
And honestly...tell me with a straight face that this stuff happens in Arlington. Whether it's because you live in Springfield and are proud of the place, or because you're just used to everything that goes on over there by now, the truth is that you're whitewashing the whole situation. You may be used to it, but to most people it seems like the friggin' third-world over there. While I love the architecture, and think that....eventually....it will be a great place to invest, the truth is that for the time being it is what it is.
Quote from: stephendare on December 22, 2008, 01:35:13 PM
I wouldnt argue with Downtown Parks, if I were you Chris. He has many years experience of operating and owning commercial properties and apartment buildings.
A LOT more valuable experience than yours, I'd wager.
And NO ONE in Springfield has done more to protect landowner rights.
Well, I was too busy having to protect my own rights from COJ to worry much about protecting other peoples' rights, LOL.
But still, I've still got all my books and records from my rental properties, and you can consider this a standing invite to come over to my house any time and look at all the eviction lawsuits, bills for repairing vandalism and tenant damage, all the lawsuits and fights with code enforcement, and on and on and on, if you'd like. I'm not just making this stuff up Stephen...
And as to my experience vs. downtownparks, I guess all I can say is that I learned from my experience, and got the heck out of there and went back to law school. What I had was more than enough 'experience' for me!
Quote from: stephendare on December 22, 2008, 01:41:46 PM
Are you sure, Chis? Your not just posting all of this to make up stories?
It really happened, and you know for a fact because you were there?
Yup. Been there, done it, but I didn't even get a t-shirt. Swear I'm making absolutely nothing up.
The Pearl is being harassed, I agree, and yes, Code can be misused, but its not as easy as one phone call or complaint. It would take a concerted effort.
Secondly your list is WAY over stated.
1: Stolen shopping carts full of vagrant crap sitting around. Will you find A shopping cart? Perhaps. Odds are, it will have a person behind it pushing it, and if you saw more than one, if even that, I would be surprised. Your more likely to see them in the creek. Which still sucks.
2: Condemned, DART'ed, or boarded up buildings within a block or two of any given address anywhere in Springfield. I cant think of any darted buildings currently. Yes, there are condemned properties. They are just buildings, you do realize that right? They don't bite or anything. Hopefully someday someone will buy them and fix them. Or, as is sometimes unfortunately the case, it will become demolition by neglect, and the city will take it down. But a boarded up building doesn't scare me, it just means the neighbors need to keep a closer watch, and push the owner to keep the lot presentable, and the building secure.
3: Live chickens and stray dogs running around. Chickens were removed by the city to the protest of many of the neighbors, and SACARC has been working its ass off on the dog situation. Will you see some dogs? Probably, but I can tell you the ones I see are actually owned, and have crappy owners who cant seem to keep them in their yard..
4: Fried chicken bones on the sidewalks. Havent seen this in a while, but I am certain that its possible that someone has thrown their trash on the ground. I bet you will see some wrappers and soda cans too. You ever driven down Atlantic blvd? Hardly litter free zone. Jacksonville is a fairly litter ridden city. That said, I am of the opinion that littering should be punishable by having bamboo shoots shoved under the offenders fingernails.
5: Empty malt liquor bottles laying around. (see above)
6: Used hypodermic needles laying around. Would be very surprised to see that. I still see the occasional colored baggies that crack come in, but not as much as I used to, and not in as many spots.
7: Old used tires laying all over the place. Havent seen this either. Are there tires. Perhaps. Are they in any way pervasive? I dont believe so. In the creek is far more likely.
8: Vacant lots all over, where there was just a house or apartment building standing until recently, which now have 4' high grass and are being used as illegal trash dumps. This is a problem. SRG does a decent job of keeping their lots clean, but even they aren't perfect. Most of the worst lots were actually city owned.
9: At least a couple prostitutes in plain sight. This one is legit. On 8th st, in and around the Shell station. You are correct, this is a big problem, and the community should group together and see what they can do. I think its too bad that the neighbors up there havent gotten a lot of support from the community.
10: A few drug dealers in plain sight. I don't see this really either. When I first moved here there were certainly spots this was the case. Now, I just don't see it. I mean, you see people walking down the street, but hanging out on street corners doesn't seem to be the MO anymore. It might be there, I just don't see it in my day to day routine, but I also live in a really nice area.
Quote from: stephendare on December 22, 2008, 01:38:54 PM
I wouldnt argue with Downtown Parks, if I were you Chris. He has many years experience of operating and owning commercial properties and apartment buildings.
A LOT more valuable experience than yours, I'd wager.
And NO ONE in Springfield has done more to protect landowner rights.
While I have experience in rentals. Quite a bit more than Dare realizes, I guess I am not truly successful because I have never been evicted, don't owe any back taxes to the state or city, nor do I have any judgments against me. THAT is the mark of a good businessman.
Chris. I am not fighting with you, I just think its frustrating that people judge Springfield on things that happened 10 years ago. You may have started out with the best of intentions, but in the end, it sounds like you ended up as part of the problem. This may not have been your fault, but thats how it comes off. Also, I completely agree with you on the Pearl. I am fearful they will just decided to close the doors rather than fight with COJ. I hope that is not the case.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on December 22, 2008, 01:43:32 PM
Quote from: stephendare on December 22, 2008, 01:41:46 PM
Are you sure, Chis? Your not just posting all of this to make up stories?
It really happened, and you know for a fact because you were there?
Yup. Been there, done it, but I didn't even get a t-shirt. Swear I'm making absolutely nothing up.
Not accusing your of making anything up, just offering some perspective as someone who lives here, which I do with my wife and two daughters. Dare supposedly does, but have seen no proof of it..
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on December 22, 2008, 01:36:23 PM
And honestly...tell me with a straight face that this stuff happens in Arlington. Whether it's because you live in Springfield and are proud of the place, or because you're just used to everything that goes on over there by now, the truth is that you're whitewashing the whole situation. You may be used to it, but to most people it seems like the friggin' third-world over there. While I love the architecture, and think that....eventually....it will be a great place to invest, the truth is that for the time being it is what it is.
I can honestly and with a straight face that I see all of these things in Arlington on an almost daily basis. I run a 155 unit apartment complex in Arlington, so I would say that I have some experience. I've been in Arlington for 4 years now have been in Mayport, Jax Beach, and Ponte Vedra. I live in Springfield too and can honestly say with a straight face that I'm less comfortable in Arlington than in Springfield. There are less desirable spots all over the city not just in Springfield, you'll find what you want to see if you just go looking for it. I can make parts of Ponte Vedra look worse than Springfield if that is my intent. Chris, you may have just had some crappy tenants, I've had them also. They will sour you on owning rentals if you let them. My point is, there are places all over the city that people would feel like they're in third world countries, Springfield is really not as bad as it's perception from outsiders. Chris, you may have been here in the past, but nowadays, you're an outsider.
Quite true...and that's the point I was making earlier...that Springfield has changed tremendously over the past 10 years. Yes, there's still some problems...but nothing more dramatic than anywhere else in the city. As for the list of what you'd find:
1: Stolen shopping carts full of vagrant crap sitting around.
There's shopping carts around, and usually by the homeless (and such) and Springfield has more than it's share of homeless. Mainly in part to being so close to downtown, where all the shelters are.
2: Condemned, DART'ed, or boarded up buildings within a block or two of any given address anywhere in Springfield.
There are some Dart'd buildings, which is a direct result of neighbors working with JSO to rid the nieghborhood of offenders, but there's not as many as you'd have us believe. There's also abandoned buildings, most of which are boarded up, mostly a result of neglectful/absentee owners.
3: Live chickens and stray dogs running around.
The city did indeed take all the chickens and roosters...and yes, Springfield, like any other neighborhood has abandoned dogs, a direct result of lousy and irresponsible pet owners.
4: Fried chicken bones on the sidewalks.
It's difficult to convince people to be decent and toss their trash into the cans...again, this isn't a Springfield only issue.
5: Empty malt liquor bottles laying around.
Again, not just a Springfield issue with ignorant people tossing their trash, but the majority of residents maintain their property, which includes picking up after those ignorant people.
6: Used hypodermic needles laying around.
I don't see them laying around and doubt anyone else would...certainly not on a frequent basis. Illegal drug use is a national problem, and again...not just in Springfield.
7: Old used tires laying all over the place.
There may be one laying here or there, and again...residents of Historic Springfield work together to keep our neighborhood clean. In fact, there's another neighborhood clean up scheduled for January 17th, where the block captains (and I'm one of them) target problem areas and we go clean them.
8: Vacant lots all over, where there was just a house or apartment building standing until recently, which now have 4' high grass and are being used as illegal trash dumps.
Yes, there's plenty of lots...of which you can blame the city and the property owners...as for them being used as a dump...see my previous response.
10% or 20%??? Dude. Come on. Im not claiming utopia here, but I would say WAY more that 20%.
Quote from: jbm32206 on December 23, 2008, 08:23:14 AM
Quite true...and that's the point I was making earlier...that Springfield has changed tremendously over the past 10 years. Yes, there's still some problems...but nothing more dramatic than anywhere else in the city. As for the list of what you'd find:
I did see some improvement in Springfield, no doubt about that, you are right. It just wasn't enough to make apartment buildings there really "workable" as a relatively headache-free investment. I've said from the beginning of this, single-family homes are a different story, especially if you live there yourself to keep an eye on things.
Quote from: jbm32206 on December 23, 2008, 08:23:14 AM
1: Stolen shopping carts full of vagrant crap sitting around.
There's shopping carts around, and usually by the homeless (and such) and Springfield has more than it's share of homeless. Mainly in part to being so close to downtown, where all the shelters are.
The city should do something about it, I agree, but in the meantime it's not exactly the sign of a ritzy neighborhood.
Quote from: jbm32206 on December 23, 2008, 08:23:14 AM
2: Condemned, DART'ed, or boarded up buildings within a block or two of any given address anywhere in Springfield.
There are some Dart'd buildings, which is a direct result of neighbors working with JSO to rid the nieghborhood of offenders, but there's not as many as you'd have us believe. There's also abandoned buildings, most of which are boarded up, mostly a result of neglectful/absentee owners.
I knew a lot of other investors, like Donna and Jason Phitides (Trust Home Equity / Trust Investment Corp / about 20 other corps I no longer remember), and Jimmy Bateh, the guy who used to have the grocery store and still had a bunch of rentals in Springfield, and Dr. Nwosu, Dr. Snauss, etc. Everybody has a similar take on things, and the issue is that it's clear the place hasn't hit "critical mass" yet, and so they're waiting until it "clears the hump" before making my mistake and pumping in money for improvements and renovations that are just going to get trashed. In the meantime, most folks are content to board it up, pay the property taxes, and just wait until things get better over there.
Quote from: jbm32206 on December 23, 2008, 08:23:14 AM
3: Live chickens and stray dogs running around.
The city did indeed take all the chickens and roosters...and yes, Springfield, like any other neighborhood has abandoned dogs, a direct result of lousy and irresponsible pet owners.
I didn't realize they got rid of the bazillion live chickens that were always running around. This was probably the single biggest thing that made me wonder if I was really still in the U.S., so ya, that's definitely an improvement.
Quote from: jbm32206 on December 23, 2008, 08:23:14 AM
4: Fried chicken bones on the sidewalks.
It's difficult to convince people to be decent and toss their trash into the cans...again, this isn't a Springfield only issue.
The chicken bones always reminded me of the steps of the miami courthouse. The hispanic defendants' families believe in charms etc., and the chicken bones are "good luck". The chicken bones all over the sidewalks in Springfield always reminded me of this. But I agree, generally, litter is a city-wide problem here.
Quote from: jbm32206 on December 23, 2008, 08:23:14 AM
5: Empty malt liquor bottles laying around.
Again, not just a Springfield issue with ignorant people tossing their trash, but the majority of residents maintain their property, which includes picking up after those ignorant people.
Agreed, litter is a problem everywhere. It's just the "kind" of litter that gets pretty humorous in springfield. I mean, we're not talking the McDonalds wrappers or soda cans you see all over Jacksonville, in Springfield it's the packaging from those "Rose" crack-pipes the convenience stores sell, the innards from $.59 cigars dumped all over the place because they need the wrappers (I'll give you 3 guesses for what), empty-malt liquor bottles, used condoms, and on and on. I agree litter is city-wide, but it's the type of litter that's striking.
Quote from: jbm32206 on December 23, 2008, 08:23:14 AM
6: Used hypodermic needles laying around.
I don't see them laying around and doubt anyone else would...certainly not on a frequent basis. Illegal drug use is a national problem, and again...not just in Springfield.
I used to see needles a lot, maybe that's gotten cleaned up. There are still those little blue or pink baggies that crack and weed get sold in all over the place, though. Surely you've noticed that.
Quote from: jbm32206 on December 23, 2008, 08:23:14 AM
7: Old used tires laying all over the place.
There may be one laying here or there, and again...residents of Historic Springfield work together to keep our neighborhood clean. In fact, there's another neighborhood clean up scheduled for January 17th, where the block captains (and I'm one of them) target problem areas and we go clean them.
Well that's an improvement, for sure. Maybe the place really is getting better. For the most part, nobody seemed that interested in improving anything but their own situation when I was most active over there (2000-2004).
Quote from: jbm32206 on December 23, 2008, 08:23:14 AM
8: Vacant lots all over, where there was just a house or apartment building standing until recently, which now have 4' high grass and are being used as illegal trash dumps.
Yes, there's plenty of lots...of which you can blame the city and the property owners...as for them being used as a dump...see my previous response.
The city is as big of a scam-artist as any of the indigenous residents, I've long said that. They manage things in such a way that they can steal the most property they can, and then as soon as they do nobody maintains it AND code-enforcement won't touch it because it's the city's own property. LOL.
Quote from: downtownparks on December 23, 2008, 09:20:53 AM
10% or 20%??? Dude. Come on. Im not claiming utopia here, but I would say WAY more that 20%.
Well, that's probably the average, overall. The 2 or 3 blocks surrounding the park on the west side of Main between 1st and 3rd or 4th streets, now that area is now 100% improved/non-blighted, except for that one rat-trap that Dr. Snauss owns and won't fix up. I mean, last time I went through there, there were BMW's and Mercedes in the driveways, so you're right, there's no question big strides were made there.
But then as you move north up to 8th street, it drops off to maybe 50%. Cross 8th, and it's like 1 in maybe 5 or 8 houses looks nice, the rest are trashed. Switch over to the east side of main, and well...you know what I mean. What's the percentage of fully renovated and non-blighted properties east of Hubbard Street but still within Springfield? Maybe 10%?
Springfield isn't just the historic district, it's everything from 1st up to MLK on both sides of main. And the historic district will continue to be affected by everything that goes on around it. I agree that certain areas (mainly that few blocks around the park) have improved greatly, but taken as a whole it's still not a pretty picture. As a side note, I heard somebody bought the Jacobs Jewelers apartments a year or so ago, I was happy to hear that. I tried to buy them, and they wouldn't sell at first, then called me back later and wanted $200k+, which was ludicrous at that time. I hope they fix it up.
Every person who has posted here is correct. Springfield is not as bad as it once was. Springfield is better than most believe. Springfield is still not as good as we would like to believe. No amount of “discussion†will change it. For every “good†story about a rental place, someone can find a bad one. Just the way life is. Not just in Springfield, but all over, in every city and every community. Live in a gated community? Bad things can happen there. Live in Springfield? Bad things can happen there. No difference really.
That is the fact we all have to understand. That is the message we really hope everyone gets. Springfield is just like everywhere else in most ways, and as a urban community, it is even better than other places in some ways.
We do have to be careful though. Springfield is better than it was six years ago, but with the economic conditions the way they are and as Springfield is an urban community, things can change and go back the other way. We all need to recognize that and watch how things are handled. Not all low income renters are bad, not all Section 8 is bad, not all landlords and absentee owners are bad. Heck, not all single family home owners are good either. All of us, owner, renter, landlord, rich or poor must truly watch out for one another in theses trying times to insure we gain as a community, not lose. To accomblish this, some may have to support businesses and people they would not normally support. One of the good things about Springfield is the diversity of the peole and businesses that exist here.
This is good discussion, but not really related to the shutdown of the Pearl. Maybe one of the Admins can split the thread.
Done
Quote from: strider on December 23, 2008, 09:55:41 AM
Not all low income renters are bad, not all Section 8 is bad, not all landlords and absentee owners are bad. Heck, not all single family home owners are good either. All of us, owner, renter, landlord, rich or poor must truly watch out for one another in theses trying times to insure we gain as a community, not lose. To accomblish this, some may have to support businesses and people they would not normally support. One of the good things about Springfield is the diversity of the peole and businesses that exist here.
I am willing to support businesses and people I don't normally support.
I just don't see how that stops people from throwing their trash (lottery tickets, styrofoam containers, chicken bones, malt liqour bottles, cigarette wrappers, etc) wherever they like rather than in trash bins. What would stop people from doing that ? Or is our only choice to hope that these people get replaced by some with better habits or constantly clean up after them ? Why do (many) low income people (the majority segment in Springfield) have no problem with this or help cleaning up ?
Quote from: AlexS on December 23, 2008, 01:07:16 PM
Quote from: strider on December 23, 2008, 09:55:41 AM
Not all low income renters are bad, not all Section 8 is bad, not all landlords and absentee owners are bad. Heck, not all single family home owners are good either. All of us, owner, renter, landlord, rich or poor must truly watch out for one another in theses trying times to insure we gain as a community, not lose. To accomblish this, some may have to support businesses and people they would not normally support. One of the good things about Springfield is the diversity of the peole and businesses that exist here.
I am willing to support businesses and people I don't normally support.
I just don't see how that stops people from throwing their trash (lottery tickets, styrofoam containers, chicken bones, malt liqour bottles, cigarette wrappers, etc) wherever they like rather than in trash bins. What would stop people from doing that ? Or is our only choice to hope that these people get replaced by some with better habits or constantly clean up after them ? Why do (many) low income people (the majority segment in Springfield) have no problem with this or help cleaning up ?
The problem is you've got two completely separate spheres of life going on in Springfield, both trying relatively unsuccessfully to coexist with each other. There are the folks like yourself, strider, soxfan, and downtownparks, etc., who go into the neighborhood and really care about the place and are trying to make it nicer.
But then you've got the people who've been living there forever, and who are generally uneducated and economically disadvantaged and a disproportionate number of whom seem to be unemployed, or drug addicts, or generally just not very friendly or rational. This group couldn't care less about the neighborhood, it's condition, or what goes on in it, and these are the same people who steal your a/c units, break your windows, and trash your stuff, etc. They ARE the neighborhood's problem, but unfortunately they also comprise a big chunk of the residents, so it's not easily fixable.
And this is exactly why doing anything with rental property is so difficult in that neighborhood, it's nobody's fault really, but the reality is you're dealing with a lot of people who just don't give a $h!t about anything, much less your property or their obligations under a lease agreement. What seems clear and convincing to you may require a set of values that they just don't subscribe to, mainly because they've never had the experiences in life that tend to give you an idea of how you should act in a given situation, or teach you to take pride in your work and in your belongings. These are folks who've never been on an airplane, have never achieved more than a high-school education at best, have never had a new car, don't know how to balance a checkbook (even if the bank would give them an account), etc., etc. By and large, they just don't have the same value-system as you do, and at its root the problem really is a culture-clash.
This even repeats itself amongst the businesses in springfield. If you pay attention, the businesses all cater to one group or the other, and the two remain almost completely separate. You've got the pawn shops, liquor stores, and fried chicken stands catering to the one set, and then you had/have the stuff like 9th & Main, Boomtown, etc., catering to the other set.
But yes, I think you hit the nail on the head, when you said the only option is to wait until they get replaced by people with better habits. Which, of course, still doesn't fix the problem, it just moves it to another neighborhood.
In your two-class distinction, Chris, you forgot about the decent poor people living among us. People who have this "habit" going for them that you don't... Compassion.
It's not just the low income residents that act like morons and show no respect....there's plenty of those with a college education, higher paying positions, flown and own new cars...that don't give a damn.
Quote from: sheclown on December 23, 2008, 02:33:15 PM
In your two-class distinction, Chris, you forgot about the decent poor people living among us. People who have this "habit" going for them that you don't... Compassion.
I was not describing a two-class system. And I'm certainly aware that there are MANY layers in between the indigent folks who comprise the bulk of the neighborhood's problems, and the typically better-off folks who are buying and renovating properties.
The reason I focused on those is because they are the two groups behind most of the conflicting upward and downward economic forces going on in the neighborhood. The root of Springfield's issues is really the interplay between those two sets of folks. I'm certainly not saying they are the ONLY two groups, but they are unquestionably the two groups in focus when you discuss these types of issues.
Also, what's with your nasty comment? I may have lacked the personal skill set to operate in that environment, but I certainly don't lack compassion. I really think you must have misinterpreted something.
Quote from: jbm32206 on December 23, 2008, 02:39:58 PM
It's not just the low income residents that act like morons and show no respect....there's plenty of those with a college education, higher paying positions, flown and own new cars...that don't give a damn.
True, but those are just plain azzholes, and there is no one to blame but them for that kind of behavior.
But blighted neighborhoods like Springfield are a whole different story. Most of the problem folks there truly do face legitimate and crushing economic disadvantages, that continue out of the area's prior generations of poverty. It becomes a cycle that is larger than simple questions of personal responsibility, and it's a lot more complicated than your example of plain old-fashioned bad behavior. It's it's also a lot harder to fix.
And in any event, I'll keep my eyes open next time I'm down there for all the low-income Springfield residents sporting degrees, planes, and new cars. Honestly, we're talking about true endemic poverty here. It's not like some spoiled kids from epping forest hop in Dad's car and say "Let's go down to Springfield and throw crack baggies and malt liquor bottles all over the place, spray paint gang signs everywhere, walk up and down the street like prostitutes, etc. etc.". Springfield is the real deal, it's not just a question of bad behavior.
Quote"Let's go down to Springfield and throw crack baggies and malt liquor bottles all over the place, spray paint gang signs everywhere, walk up and down the street like prostitutes, etc. etc.".
I get your gist, and even agree somewhat, but still say you are greatly over stating the issues.
One might be surprised at the level of education some of theses "lower income" residents have, the backgrounds and families they come from, the pasts that haunt them. Some are indeed from generations of families that never had anything, others are actually better off than their parents (a sad thing, really..) and others once had what some believe to be better lives. Some aspire to be more, others seem to try their best to become less. Pretty much the same as I have seen in the "upper income" levels as well. Some were once indeed part of those "upper income levels." One thing for sure, there is no easy answer.
QuoteAlexS: I am willing to support businesses and people I don't normally support.
I just don't see how that stops people from throwing their trash (lottery tickets, styrofoam containers, chicken bones, malt liqour bottles, cigarette wrappers, etc) wherever they like rather than in trash bins. What would stop people from doing that ? Or is our only choice to hope that these people get replaced by some with better habits or constantly clean up after them ? Why do (many) low income people (the majority segment in Springfield) have no problem with this or help cleaning up ?
It won't help much at first. Too much distrust and too much "blame" on both sides of the equation. What percent of the home owners are slobs and do not take care of their own property? Would you expect a different ratio among the renters? If you have a neighbor who doesn't mow his grass often enough, how do you handle it? Is it a fact that if one person puts in a better yard, others will follow? If one renter tries harder and has the support of the community - in other words, making them feel welcome - then other renters will do better too? This is nothing new and certainly has been done in some parts of Springfield. Not so much in other areas of Springfield, however. You can pretty much tell where it is done and where it isn't.
Most people have computers or at least access to them. They read the same things you do regardless of the income level. They predominately want the same things. As far as trash, it took a generation to get this way, so how long to reverse the effect and get the people to care about where they throw their trash? And it is not just the poor, but I have seen well dressed women in a SUV throw out the remains of a Happy Meal as often as that malt liquor can comes out of a rusty Ford.
You, AlexS, live where the cops think it's OK to have hookers because "they have always been there". How long before you can get the cops to change their perceptions and habits? And how severe is the problem with the younger generations of these lower income groups when the school system creates a magnet school for improving social behavior? When for generations, the "well off" moved away and left the inner cities behind and showed little or no concern for the residents left there, now that "they" - the well off - seem to want it back, how long to show those older, original residents that you do care? And how long before they believe it?
Do we, the newer residents who have spent untold thousands on our homes have the right to expect more out of the older, poorer residents? No, not really. But, yes, we do. Like I said, a complex problem.
Only by trying to understand the how and why of things can we begin to see what must be done. I have read on other threads and other forums how some have gone out of their way to interact with the "others“, whether the poor approach the well off, or the other way around, it makes no difference. At the end of the day, we are all just people. Some will earn our respect and friendship, others will not. Some are deserving of extra consideration, others deserve none at all. Nothing really new here, is there?
"Blighted neighborhoods like Springfield"?
My neighborhood is not blighted, it may not be as "pristine" as Avondale, but hey not everyone wants to live in whitewash land.
Blighted? I just posted some of the most fantastic Christmas light pictures taken all over Springfield, from 11th-1st and from Perry to Ionia, most "blighted" "crack" neighborhoods don't have this.
When people talk about Springfield as if it is still stuck in 1988 and is known as “Crack Alleyâ€, I know they most likely live in the burbs (or Avondale/San Marco which might as well be the burbs it's so vanilla), probably do not come to Springfield for anything (and if they do, just drive through), and certainly do not interact with anyone here.
Just recently we had caroling, Santa on the fire truck, thanksgiving football/breakfast at the park and wandering cocktail tour, we will have a wandering New years Eve Cocktail tour (oh my gosh people strolling the hood at night!)
Yeah, we still have some issues, but hey- hasn't San Marco, Avondale, and Riverside all had a rash of robberies (some armed too!) lately? Blighted huh? Please don't tell my parents that as they just bought a house here too, on Ionia no less....it might shock them!
If we could just get Flagship and some of the other awful landlords around here to clean up their act we could cut back on the majority of issues, but blighted crack alley does not describe our issues or our neighborhood any longer.. Step back from the 80’s and check us out.
Oh and that reminds me of another Springfield story, I used to own an apartment building at 41 E. 16th Street, and it had this big glass door and windows on the front of it, like a glass vestibule area where the stairs came down. The new owners replaced the glass with plywood, because people were always breaking it, but anyway, when I owned it I came by to collect a tenant's rent and there were bullet-holes all in the glass, and when I opened the door there was blood EVERYWHERE. The newell post was covered in blood, the floor, the walls were smeared. It was so nasty, and somebody got friggin' SHOT inside there.
Not even Springfield....explains a LOT!
Quote from: uptowngirl on December 24, 2008, 06:56:55 AM
Not even Springfield....explains a LOT!
It's Springfield. May not be the 'historic' district, but the place was still part of the original Springfield/New-Springfield plat. And if you're nit-picking, then I'd love to hear your take on the Chop-Shop they had in the garage at 1531 Hubbard, which was definitely Springfield, and ditto with the issues at 1719 Perry, which Springfield and Historic District.
The place has improved, but it's still rough.
It's the effort to make Historic Springfield worse than others. This is our area of concern and it's the crap that happens outside of our boundaries that others try to dump onto us. Yes, things happen, but they happen everywhere.
We have a friend with several rental properties off Moncreif and E 6th (not in the HS district) and north toward MLK. She manages all her properties herself and they are in great shape. Approx 95% of her tenants are thankful to be in her rentals as opposed to others and they don't even get upset about paying the late fee for being just one day late. I say approx 95% because she's had 2 evictions over the last couple years. She doesn't allow her properties to get out of shape. Maybe it has something to do with her visiting them at least once a week.
She also does background checks, won't allow any with criminal background and immediately evicts if an arrest occurs.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on December 24, 2008, 09:17:17 AM
It's Springfield. May not be the 'historic' district, but the place was still part of the original Springfield/New-Springfield plat. And if you're nit-picking, then I'd love to hear your take on the Chop-Shop they had in the garage at 1531 Hubbard, which was definitely Springfield, and ditto with the issues at 1719 Perry, which Springfield and Historic District.
The place has improved, but it's still rough.
Dude, One stripped down Caddie does not a chop shop make.. That's just one stolen and stripped car. They find them all the time usually in abandoned lots or seldom used streets. All that says is that you never went into that garage and the guys that used it to strip the car knew they would be able to strip it and not have to worry about being interrupted. If they were running a chop shop there, you wouldn't have found the shell of the car. They would've gotten rid of it to make room for the next one. Unless this garage was big enough for 2-3 cars at a time... Regardless, I agree with alot of what you're writing but, like DTP, I believe alot is overstated...
Let's revisit how European Cafe in Avondale was robbed by someone with an AK-47, and the Walgreen's at Park & King was held up at gunpoint twice, and the Gate gas station/convenience store on Hendricks just south of Emerson was held up (then the perpetrators running through the nearby neighborhoods with guns)...
No hyperbole there - those things really happened in 2008 (maybe 2007?) San Marco and Avondale are very scary places.
Exactly...and that's the very point that we've been making...that the issues are not specific to Springfield, it's everywhere.
Quote from: zoo on December 26, 2008, 10:05:38 AM
Let's revisit how European Cafe in Avondale was robbed by someone with an AK-47, and the Walgreen's at Park & King was held up at gunpoint twice, and the Gate gas station/convenience store on Hendricks just south of Emerson was held up (then the perpetrators running through the nearby neighborhoods with guns)...
No hyperbole there - those things really happened in 2008 (maybe 2007?) San Marco and Avondale are very scary places.
Well yeah, there's nothing I could possibly say in defense of the Park & King Walgreens. I won't even go into that place anymore. I got sick of being accosted by pushy vagrants demanding money (note my word choice over "begging" or "asking" as it's accurate). That place is gross, like an oasis of ghetto inside an otherwise nice area.
Yet...the City lets that be, and then goes gangbusters to hassle the Pearl where nobody bothers anybody...
Chris I can agree with you here, there is MUCH bigger crime in the city than over crowding at the Pearl.
What I do not agree with is how you have painted Springfield as the most crime ridden, crack alley in Jacksonville, it just isn't true. A big difference between Springfield and places like Avondale and San Marco is the people. We all look out for one another and NOTICE what is going on around us. If i was a criminal Avondale, Riverside, San Marco, Ortega, any suburb is the best place to go. Those people are not prepared, not expecting it, and not paying attention. Try to rob or attack someone in Springfield and find out how prepared they are. Now if JSO gave US as much police coverage and response as these other neighborhoods......
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on December 27, 2008, 03:55:25 PM
Well yeah, there's nothing I could possibly say in defense of the Park & King Walgreens. I won't even go into that place anymore. I got sick of being accosted by pushy vagrants demanding money (note my word choice over "begging" or "asking" as it's accurate). That place is gross, like an oasis of ghetto inside an otherwise nice area.
Yet...the City lets that be, and then goes gangbusters to hassle the Pearl where nobody bothers anybody...
I can report that the Park and King Walgreens now has a video camera out front and I have not seen a vagrant begging there in many months. So, it is safe to return. As for a robbery there, I have not heard of this but it is open 24 hours a day so I suppose that might make it more vulnerable. In any case, I have never seen any criminality there beyond the begging a long time ago.
BTW, thank you for your first hand insight Chris. I am not quite ready to make any move right now but Springfield still remains on my radar screen. Hope springs eternal, I suppose. ;)