Congress Seeks Funding for High-Speed Rail Service From D.C. to N.Y.C.
Estimated Cost of the Legislation Between $18 and $40 Billion
By Sholnn Freeman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, December 16, 2008; 12:00 AM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/16/AR2008121600392.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/16/AR2008121600392.html)
The Transportation Department is requesting proposals for development of a high-speed rail service between Washington and New York City, a project that Congress hopes to get included in future infrastructure spending by the incoming Obama administration.
Rep. John L. Mica (R-Fla.), the House's chief proponent of high-speed rail, made the announcement yesterday at Washington's Union Station. Provisions outlining government support for high-speed development were part of a sweeping railroad safety bill authored by Mica and Rep. James L. Oberstar (D-Minn.) and signed by Bush in October.
The legislation called for high-speed service in 10 other rail corridors around the country, including Florida. The department's Federal Railroad Administration is asking private companies and state entities to help the federal government design, construct, finance, operate and maintain high-speed rail service. Mica estimated the cost at $18 billion and $40 billion. He said the trains could be functioning between 2012 and 2020, based on government planning projections.
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Mica said he was hopeful that spending on high-speed rail would be included in spending proposals that President-elect Obama and congressional Democrats are planning for infrastructure projects.
Mica said the United States has become a "third-world country" in rail infrastructure, struggling to meet demand. Amtrak ridership has been growing by double-digit rates in many parts of the country. California voters last month approved a ballot initiative authorizing the state to spend nearly $10 billion in bonds to pay for developing a high-speed rail line.
Current Amtrak service is heavily subsidized. Mica said federal taxpayers already subsidize each Amtrak ticket by $50.13 system-wide.
The Federal Railroad Administration wants trains that would travel between Washington and New York City in two hours or less. Amtrak's Acela train makes the trip in about 2 hours and 42 minutes, traveling on most stretches at about 84 miles per hour. Some high-speed trains in Europe and Asia go as fast as 250 mph.
Lawmakers and transportation officials throughout the Northeast have acknowledged a number of hurdles, including problems with sorting out right-of-way issues and impacts on freight routes and existing Amtrak service. There are also bridges and tunnels that would have to be added or expanded to accommodate more trains.
Additionally, it isn't clear what private entities have the financial muscle to step forward to help develop the project, given the breakdown of the financial system and other economic woes.
Wouldnt this be cool if we could get a hub for this system at our new transportation center. We could be a transfer spot for a future high speed service to the west coast.
High speed rail from Miami to Boston would ease transit pains for cars, planes and freight transpotation.
this would be too awesome to involve us.
(http://realneo.us/system/files?file=Chicago-Hiawatha-ice-Union-.jpg)
The famous Hiawatha Lounge Car ready for my trip, thank you for paying for it!QuoteCurrent Amtrak service is heavily subsidized. Mica said federal taxpayers already subsidize each Amtrak ticket by $50.13 system-wide.
John Mica is a good friend, but he's wrong on this. He parrots the party line (see: John McCain) that roads, bridges, airports, air traffic control, freeways and waterways as well as highway bound transportation are all "NATIONAL INVESTMENTS" while rail alone is a "NATIONAL LIABILITY" in need of subsidy.
We'll need a "BRAIN CHANGE" in Washington DC, Tallahassee and DUVAL STREET to make this rail plan happen.
Why the party on the right can't see that all transportation is a National Investment, I can't understand. Frankly it's why I couldn't vote for them in the past elections.
Now just to pop the bubble here let's look at that horrid figure:
EVERY AMTRAK TICKET COST US - $53.13, Oh my God, pull down the shades and put out the dogs.
DID YOU KNOW THAT EVERY AIRLINE TICKET COSTS US JUST AS MUCH? Well, really that's a lie, airlines are not even close to rail in the subsidy required, here are a couple of new examples for your digestion: QuoteONE AIRLINE EXEC:
"It's a hell of a gig," he says. "The government pays me to operate the airplane. I make money regardless. Even if I don't carry passengers, that's fine."
QuoteTake a look at how subsidies from the federal Essential Air Service program worked at selected small airports in 2006:
Community Destination ...............Annual subsidy ... Subsidy per passenger... Average passengers per flight
El Dorado, Ark. Dallas/Fort Worth $923,456 ........... $250.......................... 3.1
Devils Lake, N.D. Minneapolis........$1,329,858..........$203.......................... 5.7
Worland, Wyo. Denver................ $797,844............$187............................4.2
Bradford, Pa. Pittsburgh...............$1,217,414..........$174...........................3.6
Jamestown, N.Y. Pittsburgh.........$1,217,414...........$135...........................4.7
Salina, Kan. Kansas City..............$487,004.............$131............................2.1
But as Congress has escalated subsidies through the years, the program has increasingly paid for flights between major airports and places that are neither rural nor isolated. Twenty-four communities with subsidized air service are within 90 miles of an airport that had at least 1 million passengers in 2006. Those subsidies cost $22 million a year.
In October, the DOT agreed to one of the program's largest subsidies ever â€" $2 million a year to Atlantic Southeast Airlines. That pays 60% of ASA's cost to fly two round-trips a day between Macon, Ga., and Atlanta's Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport, 81 miles away.
The airline projects that passengers will pay an average of $78 for a one-way ticket â€" and that flights, typically on planes with fewer than 70 seats, will run 83% empty. That means the DOT will pay $145 per passenger for the 19-minute flight.
"That's a tremendous waste of money," aviation consultant Michael Boyd says, noting that Macon residents can easily drive or take a bus to Atlanta. Groome Transportation, for example, runs hourly vans from Macon to the Atlanta airport. Cost: $31 a ticket.
QuoteThe Department of Transportation (DOT) pays a few small airlines $110 million a year total so they can profitably carry as few as four passengers per day to nearby hubs, often for rock-bottom fares. For example, a round-trip in Montana from Miles City to Billings â€" a two-hour drive away â€" costs passengers just $88 with a 30-day advance purchase on Big Sky Airlines because the government kicks in $779
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0c/Hiawatha_service_logo.jpg)
This one hits close to home as I was a passenger on The Hiawatha, a fast pre-Amtrak train that made the daily trek from Chicago to Seattle with only two nights out. Miles City is where we picked up the Milwaukee Road which then followed the Northern Pacific to Billings before taking a lower pass on a more northerly route, only to cross us again at Butte and finally vanish in the Bitter Root Range, on it's own route to Tacoma-Seattle and Portland. To the Right of the West Bound streamliner was broad vistas of the American West, a huge river - a mile wide and an inch deep churned over a million rocks outside my window. Miles City came and went in a flurry of snow-locomotives and railroad yards. Soon we were Flying at an altitude of about 6 feet...50 - 60 - 70 - 80 - 90 Miles per hour. I was riding in a glass dome lounge car, still wearing Northern Pacific colors. In what seemed like just over an hour, we pulled into Billings. This train didn't ease into the station we came in hot, like a race horse. Before the train reached the platforms, the passengers had lined up and the luggage was by the door. Maybe 30 seconds later, we were moving again, every town a repeat performance. 30 people here, 12 over there and another 22 at the next stop, on and off deep into the night.
Sadly Jimmy Carter decided that trains don't make money so to appease a Republican Congress, he cut off the:
Champion: Tampa-Jacksonville-New York
Lone Star: Chicago-KC-Dallas-Houston
Floridian: Chicago-Nashville-Birmingham-Jacksonville-Miami/Tampa
National Limited: Washington-Cincinnati-St. Louis
Hiawatha: Chicago (southern Montana) Seattle
You see those 13 or 30 that got on and off at Miles City and Billings wanted to fly, and Uncle Sam, didn't want to pay that lousy $53.13 for all those rail tickets. Instead the Republican side of the aisle decided that it would be better to have twin flights daily on BIG SKY AIRLINES to the tune of $779 dollars per ticket...
(http://www.tourvelo.org/CDA1.jpg)
Thank you Jimmy Carter, today the only thing on the Hiawatha Route is bicycles and back packs...good job.
SEE I TOLD YOU PASSENGER TRAINS DON'T MAKE MONEY!
BUT THEY DO MAKE SENSE!
OCKLAWAHA
High speed rail should not and will not ever replace air as the primary mode of travel from Boston to Miami.
High speed rail works best for distances that are less than 400 miles...about a 3 hour trip at 130 mph...this should be the goal.
Think of all the short, commuter flights that would not be needed....some believe that as much as 75% of air traffic would be reduced if ALL short flights were replaced by rail...freeing up the airspace and runways for longer flights!
I would love to see federal money to implement this old plan.
(http://www.floridabullettrain.com/content/vision2.jpg)
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/CRITICAL%20Maps/visionmap.jpg)
THE OCKLAWAHA FACTOR:
The Florida Vision Map, is one of the worst pieces of disaster that has ever been released on the unknowing Florida public. It completely shifts the focus of all rail to Orlando - Making that city the new "Jacksonville".
It all dovetails nicely with Congress saying the new "SUNSET LIMITED ROUTE" MUST run from New Orleans to SANFORD!?! Insane!
More?
The Line from Orlando to the coast is pie-in-the-sky, though somebody might build it someday. The major trouble is there is no Coastal City to anchor it in. One year it's Daytona Beach, the next New Smyrna, then it's Melbourne, and now Cocoa. BTW, how they plan to route the trains through national seashore and the Kennedy Space Center, then blow them through downtown Cocoa ought to be a real sideline show.
More?
The Line across the Everglades as well as the jump from Venice/Sarasota to Ft. Myers/Naples is also a real stretch. There is a shorter route from Tampa to Miami on the old map, why not use it?
More?
That hub at Lake City ought to really be the busy spot of all of Florida... What are these nuts thinking? I-10 meets I-75? Hello, these are TRAINS! They need terminals.
More?
The line NW of Orlando really isn't such a bad thing, but it's already in place. The gap is between Tavares and Leesburg, where new roadways and condos have pretty much closed the gap. There might still be a way to squeeze through South of the Leesburg Airport, but the canal area is going to be costly.
More?
Where the hell did the route North of Orlando go? About 1/2 of the miles are spoken for by Central Florida Commuter Rail, Jacksonville Commuter Rail (study) and Amtrak's (big 5 train plans)...But the wizards in Tallahassee and Lakeland don't agree?
THE OCKLAWAHA SOLUTION:
Considering the distances in Florida are more Europe like then in California or the upper midwest, I'd say a network of 79-90 MPH trains is fine. Schedule keeping would be key to success with split second demands on crews and contract railroads to keep it moving. The capacity enhancements with a realistic system built on what we already have (or recently had) is just so much more dollar wise.
If Obama wants to pick one of these routes for a Boston-Miami race track then great, if not, we'll be doing just fine without the BILLIONS on BILLIONS California is about to spend.
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/CRITICAL%20Maps/visionrevisited.jpg)
OCKLAWAHA
In a state with a history of not funding public transportation and certainly nothing for AMTRAK, where do these people think these passengers will suddenly come from?
DUH?
We have allowed amtrak to erode from 12 trains a day down to 2 for the whole state. Now we have a bright idea! Invest a few BILLION and all those "trained" (pun intended) passengers will just show up at the gate... Right?
UH? What Passengers? What trains?
We've got to crawl before we can walk...and walk before we run! Get a conventional fast - functional AMTRAK-FLORIDA network up and running NOW.
OCKLAWAHA
Definately agree. There's no reason to recreate the wheel. An Amtrak Florida corridor service is affordable and would stop in the heart of most cities along the line at stations that already exist. The billions saved by not building the thing shown above could be used to expand local transit options in all of Florida's cities.
It's funny but some of this is happening as we write. Tampa has a huge master plan for rail including Lakeland, Sarasota, St. Petersburg via rail (north around the bay) or streetcar (direct over the bay). They also plan to rebuild the railroad to Brooksville, and use the right-of-way north of there for "future transit" to Inverness or Dunnellon... Hell, that's half of our west coast route - rebuilt.
Orlando is moving on the Northwest lines and bringing them under Central Florida Commuter Rail, so the Leesburg, Wildwood segment is more then a pipe dream and MIGHT happen.
Winter Haven and the surroundings are quite unhappy with the new CSX super yard, so the old Bartow cut-off known as the Seaboard Cross-Florida shortline, may come back as well, opening the door for passenger service at some future point.
Fort Myers and Sarasota are both hard on Amtrak to get their connecting trains back.
The only dud's in my whole map?
The state is sitting on the Coleman-Auburndale segment which needs to be rebuilt.
Jacksonville and Gainesville have done NOTHING AT ALL. Like the Orlando Mayor said, Jacksonville and Tampa want to meet. We have a golden opportunity to play on Tampa's north line, and our Gainesville line to make this a reality. But we choose to sleep.
OCKLAWAHA
Winter Haven and the surrounding cities are happy with the CSX yard. It means jobs and a tax base for these, once citrus processing dependent, cities. Lakeland was the only upset city in Polk. They wanted commuter rail but did not want Orlando's freight traffic being rerouted through their downtown. As for Jax, it really seems like our leaders will have to be pulled, kicking and screaming to really embrace rail transit.
Getting a Florida Corridor service up and running with regular 79mph trains definitely needs to happen before high speed rail. After that is successful, upgrading the track to 110mph is an option. Beyond those speeds, it gets exponentially more expensive and reduces travel times only slightly.
Obama’s Inaugural Train: Breakthrough Metaphor?
http://citiwire.net/post/506/ (http://citiwire.net/post/506/)
i really would love for US to catch up with the high speed train thing. otherwise we will be seriously left out. A side note, if there is high speed train from Jax to DC, there will be a lot of more money flow in because DC commuters might consider move to the cheap, tropical, no income tax state instead of stuck in middle Atlantic states. I hope this is not just my wishful thinking.
Great article. Real shows the difference in attitude and priorities between the incoming and outgoing administrations. Yet another reason to party on 1/20.
I agree with the sentiments that expanded Amtrak service and commuter rail would serve this state better than high speed rail. However if Congress wants to put some high speed rail here I wouldn't say no. An east coast high speed rail line would certainly be a boon for Jax. Miami, Savanna and Hilton Head would be great HSR trips. A marquee rail service would also make it harder for local officials to keep their heads in the sand.
Your right Jeffery, IF they send it our way, we should welcome it AND become the hub for it.
My biggest problem with the concept is the years and years, of no rail passenger service that this country has suffered through. I don't see High Speed Rail as a magic bullet. It is not going to break through two generations of auto-flyers and suddenly produce train riders.
Looking at history, in Japan, High Speed Rail was the brain child of a long time (WWII) retired Japanese railroader. It wouldn't have happened at all if about 50% of the entire starter system wouldn't have had American components. But Japan had something we just refuse to do, it had a working rail passenger network. In fact the network was so overburdened, that "PACKERS" had to push the passengers into the doors. In fact this older network is still around and they have left us in the dust there too. But when passenger loads became critical they went to high speed trains, to avoid the damage freight does to track, and to split the system from locals, medium distance trains and crossings.
What's our national budget? Count the crossings from Miami Amtrak Station to West Palm Beach, ha! There goes the money...
It's also NOT about density,that argument crumbles when the high speed trains of France, Spain and Italy are considered. Hell's bells, much of France looks more like rural Ohio then it does Jacksonville. In fact hundreds and hundreds of miles connecting not much more then mere villages. The French system works because they never surrendered their trains. Again, trains we gave them at the end of the war.
Anyone that doubts these facts, drop me a PM, I have the order list of Baldwin Diesel Locomotives sent to Europe to rebuild the railroads! Now the tables have turned, and it's time to pay the price for stupid!
(http://www.treehugger.com/China-Mainline-Locomotive-GE-clean-diesel-train.jpg)
Yet I'm sick of everyone saying how behind we are in railroad tech, THAT isn't true either - we just refuse to fund it. BTW anyone seen the new Diesels for the Chinese National Railways? GENERAL ELECTRICS!
OCKLAWAHA