Duval County Courthouse Renderings
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-8205-dec_08_ddrb_agenda_for_web_page_32.jpg)
A sneak peek at the latest renderings of the controversial and long delayed Duval County Courthouse.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/962
Great renderings! I like them. But before I would start wasting my energy murmuring and complaining about it's surroundings and what the city is doing about them, I think that those plans will come in time. Let's all bank on it. In the meantime, let's start on this thing right away!!!
Seems out of place... such a huge building amongst the empty lots and smallish surroundings. The view of the parking garage from the front steps should be magnificent... :)
What will be done with the "historic courthouse" between the new and the federal courthouse?
Lets say they started this thing tomorrow...How long would it be until this thing was up and functioning?
The old federal courthouse will become a part of new courthouse complex. If construction isn't delayed again, this thing should be up by 2011 or 2012.
QuoteBut before I would start wasting my energy murmuring and complaining about it's surroundings and what the city is doing about them, I think that those plans will come in time.
jeh1980, this one is just for you. ;)
The plans suggest that the two carved up blocks along Adams will become permanent green space. Hopefully, a successful effort can be made to make this public space a little more active as opposed to passive. It also appears the small section of Clay, between Adams and Monroe will be closed, while Pearl will be reopened. Also, I wonder what will happen to the last block bounded by Adams, Pearl, Monroe and Julia Streets? Is the plan to sell it back to the private sector, park on it or fill it with sod for future expansion? Looking back at the process, it now appears that the historic Southern Bell building was torn down for nothing.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-8214-dec_08_ddrb_agenda_for_web_page_41.jpg)
The old Southern Bell Building on the block of Adams between Pearl & Julia.
(http://fpc.dos.state.fl.us/spottswood/sp00343.jpg)
sigh
The whole courthouse project is such a joke at this point. Part of me wants to complain about the obvious flaws
still present in the new plan:
- Needlessly takes up two exta blocks
- Could have gone vertical
- Doesn't connect Clay Street.
- Rotates the building, thus destroying the original "terminal vista" which was the entire point of sprawling across 4 blocks in the first place. Therefore, there's no actual
reason for the superblock, making the other problems even more frustrating, because they didn't need to happen.
The other part of me just doesn't care. Get the piece of sh*t built. To a great extent, the damage has been done. Let's just get the garbage built so the private sector will have time to develop the old courthouse site before the NEXT real estate crash.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 16, 2008, 09:12:03 AMLooking back at the process, it now appears that the historic Southern Bell building was torn down for nothing.
Yup. And don't forget Judge Moran's slip where he basically admitted that he wanted it torn down so he "wouldn't have to look at it." It was such a crass abuse of power it's still sickening.
I want to know who rendered downtown? Looks like an in house KBJ project. If so, they should send the stuff to Google to add to Google Earth.
Was my original rendering close? ;D
My building looks a lot shorter. At least the building is stretching quite a bit of height out of 7 floors.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/images/development/duval_county_courthouse_renderings_dec_2008/dec_08_ddrb_agenda_for_web_page_32.jpg)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74/asonj23/Google%20Earth%20Snapshots/ScreenHunter_01May020953.jpg)
What's with the proposed BRT bus stop at Broad and Duval?
Quote from: Joe on December 16, 2008, 09:47:42 AM
The whole courthouse project is such a joke at this point. Part of me wants to complain about the obvious flaws still present in the new plan:
- Needlessly takes up two exta blocks
- Could have gone vertical
Now that you mention it, even a slight modification of this plan could have saved the two blocks to the south.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-8205-dec_08_ddrb_agenda_for_web_page_32.jpg)
The front of the building looks like a one to two story component. Whack that section off, replace the square footage by going up one more floor and then there would be no need for a massive rerouting of Monroe.
Considering the plan and area, the proposed BRT stop would be better off being shifted a block to the south (Broad & Monroe). This way, more pedestrian traffic will be driven past the courthouse front door, the green space, the empty retail spaces on Adams and Worman's Bakery.
I kid you not, according to one courthouse supporter with the city, the one to two story component at the front of the courthouse--the one that requires the rerouting of Monroe--is an "architectural feature" that "adds heft to the design" and makes the courthouse look "old and added on to," as if it were a historic structure that been expanded. If that, coupled with marble grandeur, was the city's style objective, they should have gone vertical on the nearby old federal courthouse.
This plan is -- and will remain-- terrible for downtown connectivity.
It also runs a substantial risk of not being the grand architectural landmark desired. Faux historic buildings that try to capture grandeur, but pay sparse attention to historic scale, materials, details, and surroundings (or do not take enough risk to evidence real architectural design innovation) typically end up looking cheap and dated within a few decades. Worse, since this suburban style of architecture belongs to no discernable school, it won't be a target for preservationists during its "dated eyesore" phase. (In contrast to the mid-century library that--love it or hate it--is clearly part of a design trend, as was the Klutho building that was destroyed for its construction.)
The design isn't appalling, but it certainly could have been a lot better.
A dome or a clock tower would have been awesome.
A mediocrity produced by mediocrities. What a terrible structure, what a ridiculous misuse of downtown space and streets, what vandalism of historic structures for nothing.
If anyone wants to see a possible good use for the south lawn, look at the newly renovated Metropolitan Nashville City Hall. It is a massive, sprawling lawn that has a couple of fountains and nicely landscaped. People that live downtown love the space, and it has very good views of the skyline.
That is what they need to do with this space. Granted, they should've gone vertical, but the design isn't horrible, it could be better. The Monroe Street "curve" should be done away with and take out the low portion to keep connectivity.
Quote from: RiversideGator on December 16, 2008, 11:14:52 AM
A mediocrity produced by mediocrities. What a terrible structure, what a ridiculous misuse of downtown space and streets, what vandalism of historic structures for nothing.
I don't agree with you on much, but you are dead-on.
reednavy, I agree. One of the few things that will salvage this thing is a well designed public space on the wasted blocks. Nashville's project was one well done.
Nashville Public Square
(http://www.nashville.gov/gsa/ADA/project-spotlight/images/public_square_plaza/publicsquarespotlightintro.jpg)
(http://www.wrtdesign.com/images/work/84/1.jpg)
(http://www.wrtdesign.com/images/work/84/3.jpg)
(http://www.aia.org/aiarchitect/thisweek07/1102/1102d_tenn4square_b.jpg)
They need a good landscape architect to come in and redesign the area in front of the courthouse in order to create a nice vista, granted the buidling could have been more interesting, but we must move on and hope for a brigher future and administration with FORSYTH!
I'll hold my breath and wait for this city to build anything close to that in front of the courthouse.
Nashville's urban planning is now stunning. From the Metropolitan Nashville City Hall re-do to the Schermerhorn Symphony Center new construction, from the Downtown-to-Vanderbilt connectivity plan to reinvestment in urban neighborhoods, Nashville has made some smart choices in recent years. Jacksonville, with a similar MSA population, should take notice.
I didn't see if anyone touched on this so far in this post, but I don't think so. I love the idea of public green space but right now our bum situation is out of control and I am afraid we are giving them one more place to sit around at and harass people. Yeah it looks great in pictures but will it become overrun with bums like Hemming? I hope not!
Quote from: downtownjag on December 16, 2008, 01:53:28 PM
I didn't see if anyone touched on this so far in this post, but I don't think so. I love the idea of public green space but right now our bum situation is out of control and I am afraid we are giving them one more place to sit around at and harass people. Yeah it looks great in pictures but will it become overrun with bums like Hemming? I hope not!
That's exactly what it will be, especially at night and on weekends.
Take a look at Peyton's Bum Station aka Main Street pocket park.
Building design is uninspired. Looks like it was copied from multiple architectural styles bastardized into one single building. We should have done like the Feds - built straight up on a single block. It would have been far cheaper and a 20 to 35 story high rise downtown is always impressive. We could have then taken the multiple blocks of land now owned by the City and developed them into surrounding office and hotel towers at great profit to the City to try and recoup the blown dollars being investigated by the Grand Jury. Also, this destroys any possible continuity for a retail and/or restaurant/entertainment district in this section of town. The courthouse will be to its area what First Baptist is to its corner - an area of interest only to its constituents.
As to parking garages, the City pushes mass transit and then builds more parking downtown than anyone else. Build these garages at the stadium or periphery of town and make people use employee shuttles, trolleys, buses, or the skyway in the core area.
All in all, another symbol of Jax's paralysis when it comes to decision making on the "great" projects of the City. And to think we will be hung with it for at least the next 50 years before another generation can round up enough money to erase it from the Earth.
Jax has so much natural beauty and potential - too bad our leaders don't know how to use it. It really isn't that difficult - mostly its common sense and doing what right for the public good, not special interests.
"Jacksonville is drowning in its own nostalgia"
If you keep doing what you have always done, you always get what you have always gotten before. As long as Jacksonville continues to keep trying to live in the past and not move forward with exciting architectural styles, we will continue to get buildings that are just so, so...We are getting ready to duplicate the downtown library. Trying to make something new that might resemble something old. If the architects of 100 years ago had done so with the same kitschy nostalgia for their history that we seem to hold for them, we would not have had the style which is representative of 100 years ago; we would have the style of 200 years ago. Why do we choose not to progress, when our architectural forefathers used every new material and technology known to them in their time? I agree with the previous post that the Fed. got it right. Good architecture has the power to bring people to a city. Is anyone going to come to see our new county courthouse? What makes a city beautiful is not the sameness, it is difference, the juxtaposition of the old and the new. Diverse architectural styles are like diversities in people. These differences are what give major cities an interesting social fabric to promote a rich culture, something that Jacksonville could use a good jolt of..... Just my $ .02.
The site would make for a beautiful urban neighborhood.
The problem is not that the design is nostalgic. The problem is the design is suburban faux-courthouse nothingness. It is not classical or neoclassical as was the Cannon design. I could live with the Cannon design's use of so much land because it was beautiful and created the vistas on Monroe Street. This new design, on the other hand, is a junky, shoddy looking building which has the same footprint so we are left with the worst of both worlds. It is a truly awful situation.
If we only had someone with good taste, intelligence and foresight in City Hall...
I suppose it looks okay, but I still say they should have went vertical. And I know this is a broken record, but all of those "war zone" looking blocks just doesn't suit one new building surrounded by nuclear devastation. Hopefully that tired looking court house will spur development on that west end of downtown and into Lavilla and Northern part of Brooklyn.
Heights Unknown
Should we take bets on how long it'll be before the space between the courthouse and Adams St. becomes a gated parking lot for the important people that work there?
Quote from: copperfiend on December 16, 2008, 12:23:05 PM
I'll hold my breath and wait for this city to build anything close to that in front of the courthouse.
keep in mind that Nashville went almost 50 years without that park....and their whole courthouse area was downright hideous until about 5 years ago!
I hope they never build this. I want so many thing yesterday but I would like to see a new administration in office before any more decisions about the direction of the urban core are made. Let the mayor keep the port deals from falling apart and leave as soon as possible.
ugh just build it
Quote from: DetroitInJAX on December 16, 2008, 08:00:42 PM
Should we take bets on how long it'll be before the space between the courthouse and Adams St. becomes a gated parking lot for the important people that work there?
I see your bet, and raise you - Monroe will not be a public street in front of the Court House. Security reasons, you know.
About the city block bound by Adams, Pearl, Monroe, and Julia Streets, I predict that we may have either another parking garage, a small office building or a mixed use tower/complex with retail. Just wishful thinking. :D Keep the faith! 8)
Quote from: DetroitInJAX on December 16, 2008, 08:00:42 PM
Should we take bets on how long it'll be before the space between the courthouse and Adams St. becomes a gated parking lot for the important people that work there?
Great point.
Quote from: Charles Hunter on December 16, 2008, 09:51:43 PM
Quote from: DetroitInJAX on December 16, 2008, 08:00:42 PM
Should we take bets on how long it'll be before the space between the courthouse and Adams St. becomes a gated parking lot for the important people that work there?
I see your bet, and raise you - Monroe will not be a public street in front of the Court House. Security reasons, you know
I'll even go so far as to say that Monroe wont exist at all, it'll be a pedestrian promenade.
Maybe with a few of Mayor Peyton's signature downtown attractions. Hot Dog carts.
Round it out with a few benches that dont have armrests so the bums can lay flat and we're got one heck of a courthouse 'square'.
Someone please tell me Im dreaming. What incompetence.
Uh...you're dreaming!
The place still looks like an explosion in a pillar factory. Real authentic details...
Say, is are those sandstone pillafs really from Georgia?
All those floors? surely from Marble Colorado?
Fixtures from Tiffany and Company?
Carpets from Persia?
No?
FAuX?
"That's Jacksonvlle",
SAD STORY.
OCKLAWAHA
More news from the T/U online:
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2008-12-18/jacksonville_courthouse_deal_reached
Until there's a guarantee that the entire courthouse project can be completed without costing Jacksonville taxpayers more than $350 million, work on the main building won't begin.
That is the deal agreed upon by City Council President Ronnie Fussell and Mayor John Peyton for the project.
City officials say waiting for a guarantee on the price shouldn't hold up the timeline for completion because other work is ongoing behind the scenes, such as design, permitting and soliciting subcontractors for bids.
Turner Construction Co., hired by the city to oversee the project, is expected to provide the "guaranteed maximum price" by mid-April, as well as an updated timeline.
I f the city determines that the guaranteed price or construction calendar provided by Turner is unsatisfactory, it can negotiate with the company or alter the scope of the project.
How long this process takes will determine when the company receives the final go-ahead to proceed with construction and ultimately when the courthouse will finally come to fruition.
City administrators are still planning on a soft opening for the building by June 30, 2011, which is when Peyton leaves office. And they expect final completion by December of that year or January 2012.
Earlier this year, the council approved the $350 million pricetag, which includes $64 million already spent on the project and money that will be used to renovate the Ed Ball Building and Old Federal Courthouse for offices of the state attorney and public defender.
The construction and design of the courthouse is budgeted for $223.6 million, and an additional $15 million is set aside for the furniture, fixtures, technology and other equipment that must be installed.
The foundation for the building was supposed to start being poured now, according to existing construction timelines.
But Fussell said Wednesday he asked the mayor several weeks ago to hold off and wait for that guaranteed maximum price to ensure the courthouse can be built within budget while still meeting standards of quality. That was the City Council's intent all along, he said.
"With this project where it is in life, we just have to make sure we do all the right things," Fussell said.
Sam Mousa was Mayor John Delaney's aide when a $190 million courthouse project was approved as part of the Better Jacksonville Plan in 2000. He now serves as the city's project consultant for the courthouse.
Mousa said Wednesday he initially pushed for construction to begin earlier in hopes of accelerating the completion date. But Fussell's request is fair and shouldn't change the price of the project or the timeline, he said.
"We're still on the original schedule," Mousa said.
Despite the lack of visible activity at the LaVilla site, work on the courthouse is progressing. On Dec. 4, the Downtown Development Review Board gave its final approval of the building's exterior, including the visual renderings and the actual materials that will be used in construction.
Paul Crawford, deputy director of the Jacksonville Economic Development Commission where the review board is housed, said the courthouse presentation included a complete overview of what the building will look like from every angle, including driving down Interstate 95 and walking downtown.
"It was a very thorough presentation to hit on all the details that anyone would ask about the exterior details of the courthouse," Crawford said.
The Courthouse Architectural Review Committee approved the exterior design in November, and next month it will be asked to sign off on the interior.
The 800,000-square-foot building will have seven floors. Plans call for 51 courtrooms and chambers for 64 judges.
Family, civil and criminal cases will all be handled in this one unified building. The Duval County Clerk of Courts and court administration offices will also be housed there.
Monroe Street will remain open but will be rerouted to make a semi-circle around the main entrance on the southern side of the courthouse.
City officials expect the building to be certified as an energy-efficient building by the federal government.
There will 14 elevators in all, including six for the public. Judges and staff will use a separate set of four elevators, and prisoners and other defendants will use the remaining four.
"That was critical that there be separate corridors for each different type of traveler," said Dave Schneider, the city's senior project manager.
Schneider said he meets with judges frequently to update them on design changes and to solicit input. He has also reached out to the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office and the Clerk of Courts Office.
The newly elected public defender and state attorney, once they take office, will have a big say in how their nearby buildings are designed as part of the larger project.
The Ed Ball Building and Old Federal Courthouse are scheduled to open at the same time as the courthouse.
tia.mitchell@jacksonville.com, (904) 359-4425
I know how many people on here like to bash the Mayor....but it sounds like this delay is not his fault!
To tell the truth, I hope its delayed until 2011 or at least till the cost decreases. No personal bashing intended. Its just a bad situation (that's been said a thousand times over the years) all around. I agree with the comments Bill Bishop made regarding this project last month 100%.
Where is the cat walk that connects the garage to the courthouse? You know all those lawyer people hate getting wet. ;D
I am still disgusted with the design and shortness, but it doesnt seem to look as bad when seen from these renderings. Remember the 323 Duval building? Does anyone know if this is still in the works? Hopefully that project gets going also so we could fill in another empty Lavilla lot.
323 Duval is delayed until something happens with the courthouse project.
What was the 323 Duval project? (sorry I'm so light brained).
Heights Unknown
Here is an early rendering of 323 Duval (the new design is pretty conservative architecturally speaking). 323 Duval is a 12 story office tower proposed to replace the surface parking lot behind the Ambassador Hotel.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/courthouses/323Duval.jpg)
323 Duval is also supposed to have apartments and retail components.
http://downtownvision.org/directory/detail/2233/ (http://downtownvision.org/directory/detail/2233/)
^The vacant Ambassador Hotel (Church & Julia) would be renovated into 52 apartments and the tower would feature street level retail.
I believe the Ambassador Hotel is currently for sale so this project is likely dead.
What a grotesque building this has become, a complete waste of building material, time, real estate and money. When it is finished, it will be an embarrassment to the city and the tax payers who paid for it. If the local architects wonder and question why most large scale projects are awarded and designed by out of city and state firms, this disappointing design answers all of those questions. Wake up Jacksonville . . . why are we paying for this bastardized architectural junk?
Quote• The new County Courthouse should top out near the end of May, said Better Jacksonville Plan Project Manager Dave Schneider. That’s when the exterior concrete work should be completed and the tallest point reached. Don’t look for the traditional topping-out tree, though. “They don’t do that anymore,†Schneider said.
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/citynotes.php?id=530417
What do they mean by the topping out tree?
(http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/70/Topping_off_liberty_hotel.jpg/250px-Topping_off_liberty_hotel.jpg)
QuoteIn building construction, topping out, or topping off, is a ceremony held when the last beam is placed at the top of a building. The term may also refer to the overall completion of the building's structure, or an intermediate point, such as when the roof is dried in. A topping out ceremony is usually held to commemorate the event.
While common in England, Germany, Czech Republic, and Poland, the origins of the ceremony are obscure. Its practice has long been an important component of timber frame building. This tradition migrated to America with European craftsman. A tree or leafy branch is placed on the topmost beam, often with flags and streamers tied to it. A toast is usually drunk and sometimes the workmen are treated to a meal. The ceremony has also been common in the United States when a skyscraper is completed. The last beam to be hoisted is painted white and signed by all the workmen involved. In other types of building, the ceremony typically focuses on the bedding of the last block of masonry or brick. The ceremony is akin to the practice of placing a newspaper or coins under the cornerstone of a building.
http://www.answers.com/topic/topping-out
So its a party on roof.
Oh ok,,thanks.
It's not that they don't do it anymore, but rather that the courthouse isn't a skyscraper. Could a, should a been, but no. It isn't exactly a gravity defying feat of architecture. What's there to celebrate?
^ not to mention the tradition was started by steel workers and typically the tree was anchored to the last beam on the ground prior to being hoisted into place. Just doesn't seem right to do it on a cast-in-place concrete structure.
Quote from: brainstormer on March 06, 2010, 08:44:07 AM
It's not that they don't do it anymore, but rather that the courthouse isn't a skyscraper. Could a, should a been, but no. It isn't exactly a gravity defying feat of architecture. What's there to celebrate?
Right on, Brainstormer. The Courthouse will be an up to 7 block "dead zone" in the midst of Downtown that non-courthouse seeking Downtown visitors and residents will have to navigate around (if they bother at all). Add to it the new Downtown "dead zone" that will surround the proposed disastrously designed multi-block intermodal center that JTA is planning and all the existing non-street friendly office towers, public buildings, parking garages and lots, and FBC campus, and it becomes easy to see why downtown Jax never takes off.
Quote from: thelakelander on March 05, 2010, 08:18:49 PM
Quote• The new County Courthouse should top out near the end of May, said Better Jacksonville Plan Project Manager Dave Schneider. That’s when the exterior concrete work should be completed and the tallest point reached. Don’t look for the traditional topping-out tree, though. “They don’t do that anymore,” Schneider said.
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/citynotes.php?id=530417
It is still done sometimes.
Quote from: JaxNative68 on March 06, 2010, 10:17:24 AM
^ not to mention the tradition was started by steel workers and typically the tree was anchored to the last beam on the ground prior to being hoisted into place. Just doesn't seem right to do it on a cast-in-place concrete structure.
You are right,masons have different rituals.
Quote from: stjr on March 06, 2010, 10:49:30 AM
Right on, Brainstormer. The Courthouse will be an up to 7 block "dead zone" in the midst of Downtown that non-courthouse seeking Downtown visitors and residents will have to navigate around (if they bother at all). Add to it the new Downtown "dead zone" that will surround the proposed disastrously designed multi-block intermodal center that JTA is planning and all the existing non-street friendly office towers, public buildings, parking garages and lots, and FBC campus, and it becomes easy to see why downtown Jax never takes off.
Huh? Maybe after dark the new courthouse area will be a "dead zone" but daytime Mon-Fri I think we can expect a lot of people and some new businesses to cater to them. I'll bet the Sinclair sees a lot more business then as well.
Put some nightclubs and bars in on that west end of Bay Street; that'll keep that area alive. Have to draw people to that area first though.
"HU"
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on March 06, 2010, 03:51:13 PM
Quote from: stjr on March 06, 2010, 10:49:30 AM
Right on, Brainstormer. The Courthouse will be an up to 7 block "dead zone" in the midst of Downtown that non-courthouse seeking Downtown visitors and residents will have to navigate around (if they bother at all). Add to it the new Downtown "dead zone" that will surround the proposed disastrously designed multi-block intermodal center that JTA is planning and all the existing non-street friendly office towers, public buildings, parking garages and lots, and FBC campus, and it becomes easy to see why downtown Jax never takes off.
Huh? Maybe after dark the new courthouse area will be a "dead zone" but daytime Mon-Fri I think we can expect a lot of people and some new businesses to cater to them. I'll bet the Sinclair sees a lot more business then as well.
Agreed, that many new employees with higher incomes, plus all of the "Joe lunch bucket," and "Joe steals lunch bucket," types have to eat, sleep, drink, copy, print, research, represent, become represented, answered, notarized, and certified... This is going to be anything but a dead zone. Add the Bus Rapid Transit, on Broad and nearby Jefferson, and I think we're on the cusp of seeing a mini-boom downtown. I'd expect over the next couple of years, if we don't all vanish on 12-21-12, at least an equal amount of money invested in the private sector and scattered all around this new edifice.
Want to invest? Want to develop? I'm telling you now, LEARN where the money is going and get there ahead of the pack. OCKLAWAHA
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-8205-dec_08_ddrb_agenda_for_web_page_32.jpg)
Its too late for the building (which kills three sides of pedestrian traffic), so its time to pay closer attention to other projects in the immediate area. Two major influences on the future of this area will be how the city develops the green space (bounded by Monroe, Julia, Adams and Broad) and JTA integrates BRT. The majority of the courthouse's foot traffic will arrive from the garage at Adams/Clay and Monroe Street from the Hemming Plaza/Ed Ball Building area. The spots most likely to benefit are the vacant retail bays in the Forysth Street and the Courthouse garage. If BRT can be integrated with the public space and the public space developed right, an activity center could become a reality along Broad Street.
If that public space can be developed in a similar fashion to Nashville's public square, it will draw decent pedestrian activity and encourage adjacent infill on nearby underutilized parcels.
Nashville's Public Square
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/570840621_HQ2zr-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/570840592_UdE5L-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/570840596_mkguq-M.jpg)
Exactly, which is why when I first proposed a figure 8 as a possible core system for streetcars, the route was down Broad from Randolph to Lee. This also puts Sax Sea Food very close... Bet you never guessed there is a long term method to my madness!
OCKLAWAHA
If done right, the BRT project should include upgrading the Broad Street streetscape with context sensitive sidewalks, landscaping, lighting, bike lanes and BRT stop that's well integrated with the public space and potentially offering room for a small cafe/newstand/kiosk, etc.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Elements-of-Urbanism-Cleveland/P1260847/593549446_2DhEN-S.jpg)
The larger question is will a focus on multimodal (pedestrian, bike, included) transportation options happen with JTA in charge? If they can grasp the idea that pedestrian and bike connectivity are just as important as upgrading the buses, BRT along that stretch should be a positive factor.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on March 06, 2010, 10:32:19 PM
Exactly, which is why when I first proposed a figure 8 as a possible core system for streetcars, the route was down Broad from Randolph to Lee. This also puts Sax Sea Food very close... Bet you never guessed there is a long term method to my madness!
OCKLAWAHA
The only thing with the Figure 8 is money to implement anything is limited. It sucks but that is a reality we face and must accept. Since its limited, you have to get more bang with the initial buck. The figure 8 only dumps money into a limited DT/LaVilla area. It would be more of a tourist trolley than effective mass transit for the urban core. For the same price, you could take that figure 8 loop and stretch it out into a line that directly connects DT with Springfield and Riverside. Overall, the urban core and downtown would be better off with a system that serves a larger pool of residents and encourages a wider path of transit oriented development. However, looking long term (after urban core neighborhoods are connected with DT and each other via rail) it certainly has merit.
Quote from: thelakelander on March 06, 2010, 10:46:41 PM
Quote from: Ocklawaha on March 06, 2010, 10:32:19 PM
Exactly, which is why when I first proposed a figure 8 as a possible core system for streetcars, the route was down Broad from Randolph to Lee. This also puts Sax Sea Food very close... Bet you never guessed there is a long term method to my madness!
OCKLAWAHA
The only thing with the Figure 8 is money to implement anything is limited. It sucks but that is a reality we face and must accept. Since its limited, you have to get more bang with the initial buck. The figure 8 only dumps money into a limited DT/LaVilla area. It would be more of a tourist trolley than effective mass transit for the urban core. For the same price, you could take that figure 8 loop and stretch it out into a line that directly connects DT with Springfield and Riverside. Overall, the urban core and downtown would be better off with a system that serves a larger pool of residents and encourages a wider path of transit oriented development. However, looking long term (after urban core neighborhoods are connected with DT and each other via rail) it certainly has merit.
Which is why I continue to draw it... I've got no illusions about doing it building it all at once, I've figured phases into this for 30 years. In fact the first proposal that I presented to DDA (back in the day) only called for Water Street to Newnan, with Bay, as a possible second phase. I think my referring to the "8" as the core, has thrown some folks off, thinking I'm talking about an "original system plan" as a core. I'm not, I am proposing it as the CORE of an eventual system that reaches out in several directions... We're on the same page. OCKLAWAHA
Figure 8 or a cloverleaf..........matters not to me, just lets get something going somehow somewhere!!
We did that in the 1980s with the skyway and look at where it got us. In addition to getting something going somewhere, this time around we're going to have to make sure whatever we get going connects with the right spots to be an immediate success.
I have seen a participatory fountain in Boston near the Christian Science's 'Mother Church.' The fountain appeared to be a destination for Boston folks who took their swimsuit-clad kids to splash around in the summer heat.
What kind of response would a similar fountain get down here in Jax?
Quote from: Jaxson on March 07, 2010, 03:11:06 PM
I have seen a participatory fountain in Boston near the Christian Science's 'Mother Church.' The fountain appeared to be a destination for Boston folks who took their swimsuit-clad kids to splash around in the summer heat.
What kind of response would a similar fountain get down here in Jax?
Judging by what I've by taking my kids to Kids Kampus on a hot summer day I'd say there'd be plenty of draw to an outdoor fountain area. Especially with the summers here being so insufferably hot and muggy. With some transit lines are nearby I think that a public fountain could draw quite a crowd.
Wonder how amenable the powers that be would be to having a gaggle of kids playing outside their place of work though. They'd probably see it as detracting from the dignity of this "pantheon" of public justice. Personally, I'd love to see it though.
They would be hypocrites since the preaching over the years has been about making Jax a family-friendly place. If DT is to ever become a vibrant place, it has to appeal to all ages.
With that said, it makes little sense that the only tot lot DT is at Kids Kampus which is over a mile from the Northbank core. Since we're going to end up with a three block green space, we might as well try and get some decent use out of it on a regular basis.
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1340/809635433_cada4b9e75.jpg?v=0)
Why not carve out a corner of green space for a decent urban playground? With the library and MOCA Jax nearby, it would give people with kids and groups on field trips reason to stay in the heart of downtown a little longer. It would also help improve the quality of DT to urbanites with children.
Quote from: thelakelander on March 06, 2010, 10:27:22 PM
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-8205-dec_08_ddrb_agenda_for_web_page_32.jpg)
Its too late for the building (which kills three sides of pedestrian traffic), so its time to pay closer attention to other projects in the immediate area. Two major influences on the future of this area will be how the city develops the green space (bounded by Monroe, Julia, Adams and Broad) and JTA integrates BRT. The majority of the courthouse's foot traffic will arrive from the garage at Adams/Clay and Monroe Street from the Hemming Plaza/Ed Ball Building area. The spots most likely to benefit are the vacant retail bays in the Forysth Street and the Courthouse garage. If BRT can be integrated with the public space and the public space developed right, an activity center could become a reality along Broad Street.
If that public space can be developed in a similar fashion to Nashville's public square, it will draw decent pedestrian activity and encourage adjacent infill on nearby underutilized parcels.
Lake, let's examine the points you and Ock have made about all the "life" potential around the new courthouse. First, I don't think you can attribute much "life" downtown to the current courthouse or to the new Federal courthouse. Maybe a few lunch spots, not much else that I see. And, you already note that 3 sides of the new courthouse are closed off. The fourth faces a one way street and a large "green," putting courthouse visitors at least 1 to 2 blocks from surrounding areas, assuming the public entrance is at the midpoint of the building. Once outside, most of the immediate surrounding blocks to the south and east are controlled by the City so it's going to be a bit of a walk from the courthouse to just about anywhere.
As to the vacant retail bays in the Forsyth garage, I don't see much there and what is is pretty small looking. As to connecting to Hemming Plaza. thanks to the massive 7 blocks owned by the City and the next blocks owned by the Federal Courthouse and City's Ed Ball building, where is there room for anyone to retail in between?
Explain this BRT thing to me again. I thought it was primarily to bring in commuters from the suburbs quickly to downtown, not to be a downtown local. If BRT is to terminate at the JTA intermodal, it won't be focusing traffic in this area.
Lake, the pictures and map of Nashville are nice. But none of it shows private development or retail infill around their courthouse either. If it's there, I don't see it. Not sure this is a good sign for ours.
My conclusion is "same old, same old". No master plan, no common sense, just random projects with people trying to make sense of it all after the fact. The discussions we are having here should have been held before the courthouse was designed and, then, the conclusions should have been integrated into its design. More typical Jax lack of vision.
I won't believe the courthouse stimulates downtown to any real degree until I see it with my own eyes. Sure, maybe a few law firms build or move into buildings in the area, but that's not going to trip the light fantastic based on past experiences. Anything more than that, I'm not holding my breath.
Quote from: stjr on March 07, 2010, 07:50:19 PM
Lake, let's examine the points you and Ock have made about all the "life" potential around the new courthouse. First, I don't think you can attribute much "life" downtown to the current courthouse or to the new Federal courthouse. Maybe a few lunch spots, not much else that I see.
I think the vacant garage retail bays have the potential to become new lunch spots. Other than that, the relocation of the courthouse, bad design and all, should also trigger a shift in the location of support services, such as law firms. With that said, we may see some buildings redeveloped for new uses catering to the courthouse and its support uses. Two that come to mind are the Ambassador Hotel and Old JEA headquarters.
QuoteAnd, you already note that 3 sides of the new courthouse are closed off. The fourth faces a one way street and a large "green," putting courthouse visitors at least 1 to 2 blocks from surrounding areas, assuming the public entrance is at the midpoint of the building. Once outside, most of the immediate surrounding blocks to the south and east are controlled by the City so it's going to be a bit of a walk from the courthouse to just about anywhere.
That walk can be a pleasant one if (that's a BIG IF, I admit) the land controlled by the city is developed into a usable public square.
QuoteAs to the vacant retail bays in the Forsyth garage, I don't see much there and what is is pretty small looking.
Its easier for a small business to open in an existing space as opposed to purchasing and building from scratch on a vacant lot. I only mentioned them because they would be prime candidates to be filled with restaurants and lunch spots catering to the new crowd in the general area.
QuoteAs to connecting to Hemming Plaza. thanks to the massive 7 blocks owned by the City and the next blocks owned by the Federal Courthouse and City's Ed Ball building, where is there room for anyone to retail in between?
It will be one block from Hemming to the "green space". There is retail along a portion of that block already (Quizno's) and a vacant spot on the opposite end at the corner of Monroe & Julia. Other than that, to pull people into the area, the "green space" will have to be an attraction in itself. We screwed up the courthouse's design, so really all we have left at salvation is the development of a decent public space on the remaining land.
QuoteExplain this BRT thing to me again. I thought it was primarily to bring in commuters from the suburbs quickly to downtown, not to be a downtown local. If BRT is to terminate at the JTA intermodal, it won't be focusing traffic in this area.
I'll admit the overall BRT project won't result in attracting infill development. However, the major benefit in the immediate area is the project involves rebuilding Broad Street. You're a long time advocate of wide pedestrian friendly sidewalks. Well running BRT down Broad and Jefferson calls for improving the streetscape, landscaping and lighting along those corridors. If JTA can eliminate the wicked downtown loop all of their current buses take and consolidate those routes to Broad & Jefferson, the few stops in these corridors have the potential to add additional pedestrians in the area. So while you won't land a office building because the bus comes by, you could end up with a couple of hot dog vendors or kiosks, which is better than what's there today.
QuoteLake, the pictures and map of Nashville are nice. But none of it shows private development or retail infill around their courthouse either. If it's there, I don't see it. Not sure this is a good sign for ours.
I look at the green space as having the potential to be an attraction in and of itself, if it becomes more than grass or passive space. The area around the Nashville was already developed. I did notice a new Hotel Indigo opening in a building that had been vacant for a while across the street. However, I can't say that it opened because of the park or because Nashville's DT is vibrant.
Hotel Indigo
New Property
301 Union Street
Nashville, TN 37201
Open Date: Fall 2009
www.ichotels.com
With the success of the Hotel Indigo located on West End Avenue, a second location is scheduled to open in Fall 2009 and will occupy the renovated 82-year-old American Trust building at Third Avenue North and Union Street. The boutique hotel will feature 96 rooms.
http://www.visitmusiccity.com/media/presskit_developmentsrenovations(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/563007825_bU8KX-M.jpg)
I took this image from Nashville's square last summer. The historic highrise in the middle was under reconstruction at the time. It was being converted into the Hotel Indigo mentioned above.QuoteMy conclusion is "same old, same old". No master plan, no common sense, just random projects with people trying to make sense of it all after the fact. The discussions we are having here should have been held before the courthouse was designed and, then, the conclusions should have been integrated into its design. More typical Jax lack of vision.
I agree, but we still have time to change the impact of the green space. If we don't discuss it and push for it, then we know what the end result will be.....same old, same old.
QuoteI won't believe the courthouse stimulates downtown to any real degree until I see it with my own eyes. Sure, maybe a few law firms build or move into buildings in the area, but that's not going to trip the light fantastic based on past experiences. Anything more than that, I'm not holding my breath.
I actually agree with you. Sorry if I gave the impression that I believe the courthouse has the power to transform LaVilla into a real vibrant district.
(http://www.lightrailnow.org/images/saa-lrt-bus-saarbruecken-interchg-apr2003_s-baguette.jpg)
COURTHOUSE STATION?? Maybe! This scene duplicated using any combination of Bus - Skyway - Streetcar - Commuter Rail, is EXACTLY what our city should be striving for. Duplicate this scene in San Marco? Skyway - Bus - Commuter Rail; duplicate it at Shand's? Streetcar - Commuter Rail - BRT - Bus; at Riverside? Skyway - Bus - Streetcar; at A.P.Randolph? Skyway - Streetcar - Bus - BRT... Food for thought!Quote from: thelakelander on March 07, 2010, 08:37:03 PM
Quote from: stjr on March 07, 2010, 07:50:19 PM
Lake, let's examine the points you and Ock have made about all the "life" potential around the new courthouse. First, I don't think you can attribute much "life" downtown to the current courthouse or to the new Federal courthouse. Maybe a few lunch spots, not much else that I see.
QuoteExplain this BRT thing to me again. I thought it was primarily to bring in commuters from the suburbs quickly to downtown, not to be a downtown local. If BRT is to terminate at the JTA intermodal, it won't be focusing traffic in this area.
I'll admit the overall BRT project won't result in attracting infill development. However, the major benefit in the immediate area is the project involves rebuilding Broad Street. You're a long time advocate of wide pedestrian friendly sidewalks. Well running BRT down Broad and Jefferson calls for improving the streetscape, landscaping and lighting along those corridors. If JTA can eliminate the wicked downtown loop all of their current buses take and consolidate those routes to Broad & Jefferson, the few stops in these corridors have the potential to add additional pedestrians in the area. So while you won't land a office building because the bus comes by, you could end up with a couple of hot dog vendors or kiosks, which is better than what's there today.
QuoteI won't believe the courthouse stimulates downtown to any real degree until I see it with my own eyes. Sure, maybe a few law firms build or move into buildings in the area, but that's not going to trip the light fantastic based on past experiences. Anything more than that, I'm not holding my breath.
I actually agree with you. Sorry if I gave the impression that I believe the courthouse has the power to transform LaVilla into a real vibrant district.
I agree that BRT in and of itself will NOT create a damn thing in Transit Oriented Development (TOD), it never has, and in the one big case that the highway lobby loves to cite, all of the development except for a McDonald's was government. In other words, build a super expensive bus system that want's to be light rail, then move the government offices all along the line and boast World Wide about all of the "TOD" the BRT attracted. Hardly.
That said, the BRT is much more likely to become an acceptable means of transport for Jacksonville's business class, or white collar citizens. The attraction of the BRT in the immediate will be slight among this group, but when tied to Commuter Rail along Philips, and the Airport and Far north Main Street, plus streetcar and Skyway, the BRT will become a very desirable component for our routes which have ridership in proportion somewhere between regular bus service and rail/monorail services.
Few attorneys and executives are likely to travel the current Air JTA for a couple of reasons:
It's just another bus in a city that has never known real mass transit, "Transit Virgins".
It's a long cement road to the airport and City buses with their poor airbag suspension tend to gallop making for discomfort on longer routes.
It's running but not at all hours and on all days, and the headways are poor. When every citizen realizes that they can catch transit to the airport every 30 minutes, rain, shine, night, day, dark or dawn, we start to see change.
Once the BRT becomes operational and falls into place as a compliment to rail and monorail, we'll have the ability to operate a seamless service, cross platform transfers, mixing modes, throughout the city. When it becomes common knowledge that Mr. Attorney, Judge, or Executive can leave the airport rail station, to Shand's, transfer to the BRT, and move rapidly and directly to the Courthouse Stop, your going to see huge change. Toss in future streetcar, running at a 90 degree angle to the BRT on Duval Street, and the courthouse will be the anchor of a blowtorch development zone.
Investors from transit savvy cities, know these advantages and have already scored big all across the globe. It doesn't take rocket science to see the projection that mass transit, plus courthouse, will be an unstoppable catalist.
AS A POSTSCRIPT:
Consider that with BRT and rail punching through the northside in two directions, and hubbing out of Jacksonville Terminal, provide a strong case for finishing the Skyway as a distributor to Riverside, San Marco, and East Bay Street. It also speaks loudly to the streetcar running from Kent Campus/Fairfax north all the way into Springfield/Shand's, with as much exclusive lane running as possible.
Yes, I do believe the Courthouse will begat more and more development, and I think as each new transit system and route comes on line, this development will accelerate. While I don't care for the "Explosion in a Pillar Factory" architecture of the new edifice, I am quite pleased that the city and JTA seem to be doing things right.OCKLAWAHA
QuoteNew County Courthouse: inside and out
Courthouse progress
“If you blink you’ll miss something.â€
That’s how Dave Schneider, the City’s Better Jacksonville Plan project manager, described progress on the job site of the County Courthouse.
About 300 workers are on site at this time, with many more scheduled to report for work when the interior part of the job begins in earnest, said Turner Construction Company Senior Project Manager Louis Fiore. That will be in about a year when the structure is fully enclosed. Until then work goes on 12 to 14 hours a day, six days a week to stay on schedule, said Fiore.
The project is to the point you can’t miss it even at a distance. Here’s what’s going on inside the new building.
article with images: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=530733
It is going up pretty fast. I am pleased with the progress.
It is a somewhat attractive building.. For a modern one, I am not too offended. It does have some appealing features, but it is far from a "Historic" look..but what I really hate is that some really beautiful Structures came down to put this thing in this particular spot. More of the same that has gone on in Jax for decades. When will they get that you cannot raze everything historic?
By the way, Mayor Peyton stated on First Coast Connect earlier this week that the "green" in front of the courthouse is destined in the future to be used for additional expansions of the complex/annexes. So, don't look for a permanent park/green space. Did everyone realize that? I didn't.
More spaces to fill the building with "dead wood ". Sorry...did that sound pessimist?
I am suprised they didnt put statue of Peyton in front of courthouse.
(http://www.jacksonvillemag.com/blogs/media/blogs/Specktator/laughing_peyton.jpg)
Bostech......
DID YOU HAVE TO POST THAT PICTURE?????????? :(
lol
Quote from: Bostech on June 11, 2010, 12:05:30 AM
I am suprised they didnt put statue of Peyton in front of courthouse.
(http://www.jacksonvillemag.com/blogs/media/blogs/Specktator/laughing_peyton.jpg)
if they did, it couldn't be life size, nobody would be able to see it.
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!! Toooo chayyyy !!!! :D
I do hope they fill that green space with something worthwhile!
Here's a good use for the green space. ;D
(http://qtrax.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/public-floggin1.jpg)
Good idea UL................save it for "Elected Officials" that gouge the taxpayer and maybe that will change!
We could keep it busy if it was built today....for quite a while ;)
Too tru Timkin! Too bad its not in place at this very time....but the location is ideal, justice could be very swift! ;D
Given the hoopla surrounding the courthouse, I must admit it's a pretty impressive looking building from I-95.
I noticed that as well driving 95 to the I 10 split. Looks huge.
(http://jacksonville.com/images/062602/met_kbjcourthouse2_140.jpg)
I still wish it looked like this instead
Quote from: hightowerlover on June 15, 2010, 02:22:41 PM
(http://jacksonville.com/images/062602/met_kbjcourthouse2_140.jpg)
I still wish it looked like this instead
Me too.
What would one call the Style that the new Courthouse is being built? I like the model above..but I do not see the statue of Peyton. :)
Timkin, I think Ock called it "an explosion in a column factory" :D
^ hightower, where did that picture come from? I love all the trees, the fountain, the roundabouts and the dome. Pretty cool design!
Perhaps that's close to a "style" as I coined it from a 1929 newspaper description of The Paris Exposition of Decorative (Decadent) Arts, aka: ART DECO. A famous painting called "Nude Descending the Stairs" which was labeled "An Explosion In A Shingle Factory..."
Here she is in all of her glory, would that I owned her!(http://www.artlex.com/ArtLex/f/images/futur_ducham.nudedes.lg.jpg)
Quote from: hightowerlover on June 15, 2010, 02:22:41 PM
(http://jacksonville.com/images/062602/met_kbjcourthouse2_140.jpg)
I still wish it looked like this instead
and what would people say when hearing this design would cost $400+ million?
To be honest, the one under construction will probably end up +$400 million when everything is said and done.
from what I understand, they are sworn to no more than $350 million including garage, land acquisition, etc...the contractor agreed to a max. limit which keeps the new building around $224m
I don't think they had the reconstruction of Monroe, Adams, Duval, Pearl and Broad Streets in those numbers. Although, they aren't the actual structure, the streetscaping and reconstruction projects are definitely a result of the project and should be linked to the overall number. Can anyone confirm?
Quote from: thelakelander on June 15, 2010, 10:29:04 PM
To be honest, the one under construction will probably end up +$400 million when everything is said and done.
Until its said and done, I doubt we will know the final price tag. I personally bet it exceeds $400 M.
The building is "over columned" alright. Id seriously like to know what this is supposed to be called style-wise. I personally like the above rendering better. Too bad we have 0 say-so :(
The building looks nice, I guess...
It did rob me of my river view from my apartment window though! >:(
Its shorter than I imagined it would be but it looks like it does in the proposed renderings. Personally, I'm more interested into the look and features of the grounds surrounding the building than the building itself.
lake I am also...............from what I understand the "green area's" are for future expansion! That way we get to not only pay for more past the voter approved $190 Million but will get to pay again at some future point! I still have not found out just how we are supposed to pay for this $350 Million Dollar ediface! Maybe Johnny is going to break out one of his piggy banks.....or maybe he will use book #7!
Hopefully our next mayor will use it as green space, and not for "future expansion". I will say all the activity in the area looks pretty impression from the interstate. Aside from the courthouse, you can see Baptist starting to work on demolition for their adult tower ( which I just noticed the huge Crane this morning), and even the construction 95/I10 gives the impression that were "busy" LOL Although not seen from the interstate, everything going with Laura street (road work and the possible renovation of the trio and barnett building.), and the Landing resolving parking, I'm pretty content for the moment. ;D
http://c.brightcove.com/services/viewer/federated_f9/10363234001?isVid=1&videoId=103406361001&playerID=10363234001&domain=embed&dynamicStreaming=true
Bring on the infill!
IDK if anyone already asked this question but once the new courthouse facility is complete an bein operated, wat will happen to the old courthouses???
* driving Wrecking ball from Arlington to Old Courthouse building as we speak... While Im waiting, think I ll take down the Park View Inn :D.
just kidding.
Quote from: WillNevaLeaveJAX on July 18, 2010, 10:01:48 PM
IDK if anyone already asked this question but once the new courthouse facility is complete an bein operated, wat will happen to the old courthouses???
it'll probably stay empty until it deteriorates and has to be torn down, you know just like every other building downtown.
in all seriousness, who knows? hopefully it'll turn into something useful, maybe like into a new convention center area, but i doubt we will know what will happen for awhile.
:) couldn't have put it better myself.
Is it just me, or does anyone else notice that every rendering of this monster looks to be white? I drove past this monster (I call it a monster because it is so very HUGE, I mean HUGE!) this weekend a couple of times from different directions and it appears to be baby kaka brown to me. Perhaps I am color blind, but it does not look like the renderings I have seen, and actually seems pretty ugly, and very new constructiony looking, not grandly historic (except in size maybe).
I think the color matches pretty closely the historic old Federal courthouse next door...which is to be integrated into the project
The new Duval County Courthouse as of 1/7/11 4:55pm.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1150741454_qgLma-L.jpg)
Quote from: Lunican on January 08, 2011, 07:10:48 PM
The new Duval County Courthouse as of 1/7/11 4:55pm.
Lunican, nice picture, ugly building, waste of multiple downtown blocks. ;)
By the way, is that a wall across the front of the building, against which construction materials are staged? Is it staying? It appears to completely separate the building from and/or divides the "green" that is supposed to be in front of it.
actually I think that is the top of the parking garage a block away
Quote from: tufsu1 on January 08, 2011, 10:43:06 PM
actually I think that is the top of the parking garage a block away
Ah, Tufsu, I "see" your point. An optical illusion that just shows even "seeing" isn't always believing. ;D
I was "suckered" in a bit by the similarity of the square "blocks" spaced along the garage perimeter wall to the square "blocks" at the base of the front walls of the building, thinking this similarity was to tie the two together aesthetically. Obviously, just a coincidence of styles.
Since they decided to keep the DT grid intact with the continuation of Monroe St (in front of the Courthouse) maybe they should've incorporated a Clay St tunnel with a 5 foot clearance right underneath the Courthouse. JK :). I agree with that other thread about it being a waste to continue Monroe St in front of the Courthouse. DT has loads of streets that are cut off like Adams, so what's the big deal about a lil' stretch of Monroe.
Ron Barton and Ron Littlepage agree with what Metro Jacksonville has stated all along:
QuoteOne option would be to curve Monroe Street around the courthouse.
That, however, is not practical because the curved road would have to go either smack dab up against the entrance to the courthouse or smack dab up against Adams Street.
Ron Barton, the executive director of the Jacksonville Economic Development Commission, is arguing that instead of rerouting Monroe Street, the area between the courthouse and Adams Street should become a public plaza.
That make sense, and the ordinance requiring an open Monroe Street needs to be amended by the City Council to allow it.
http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/400601/ron-littlepage/2011-01-08/monroe-street-grand-entrance-doomed
I'm grateful to Littlepage for this column about Monroe Street. I was unaware of the behind the scenes maneuvering for closing Monroe Street despite someone's good intentions to keep it open and part of the grid.
I have finally be able to experience the inside of the courthouse. While sitting in one of the lobbies off the central atrium, I feel like I'm sitting in a food court of a shopping mall... less than impressed when considering how much this building cost to erect.
But if it were impressive, it would have cost you twice as much!
^ not necessarily. There was a lot money spent to make the seven story atrium interior meet code, which only added to the shopping mall food court feel of the building.
I went there for jury duty a month ago, and thought it was very nice. From the courtrooms, to the atrium area, to the snackroom with an interior courtyard.
I had jury duty a few months ago. I wasn't impressed, given the amount of cash spent. From an architectural standpoint, I think we could have gotten something much better for the price.
Spilled milk at this point, but would have loved to have seen a vertical structure that somehow paid tribute to this bad boy:
(http://www.floridamemory.com/fpc/reference/rc03943.jpg)
They don't make them like they used to that is for sure. Public buildings should represent the collective spirit of the people by paying tribute to past generations, honoring the current generation, and inspiring future generations - we do none of that today which is a sad commentary on the 'collective spirit' of the baby boom generation. Trillion of dollars in public debt and nary a public building constructed in the last 50 years that is worth a crap.