The Jaguars want the city to spend $148 million renovating Jacksonville Municipal Stadium â€" more than it cost to build 15 years ago; city obligated to honor deal, mayor says.
http://www.jacksonville.com/sports/football/jaguars/2008-12-04/jaguars_stadium_needs_millions (http://www.jacksonville.com/sports/football/jaguars/2008-12-04/jaguars_stadium_needs_millions)
Guess it's not cheap to hang with the big dogs. :P
Seems like standard maintenance.
Quote from: copperfiend on December 04, 2008, 08:52:22 AM
Seems like standard maintenance.
Yeah that's the sense I got too. At those estimates, it sounds like they are going to overhall the "guts" of the stadium. I guess that 15 year anniversery the other day came with a $148 million price tag.
People are going to get bent out of shape. I have no doubt that Ron Littlepage is in a canoe somewhere in Jacksonville writing about why the city shouldn't spend a dime on the stadium.
HMMM seems like a ploy before the team leaves the city.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on December 04, 2008, 10:09:04 AM
HMMM seems like a ploy before the team leaves the city.
I think you're reading too much into it.
We'll add the Skyway about the time Orange Park and St. Augustine are added to the Orlando SMA.
PULL YOUR HEADS OUT JACKSONVILLE!
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: copperfiend on December 04, 2008, 10:11:37 AM
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on December 04, 2008, 10:09:04 AM
HMMM seems like a ploy before the team leaves the city.
I think you're reading too much into it.
Your opinion, my opinion.
No.
First, they need to renovate the Jaguars.
Second, bring more businesses into the surrounding area to make it more than just a football destination. Finish the Shipyards and turn Randolph street into a place to be seen at.
QuoteWe'll add the Skyway about the time Orange Park and St. Augustine are added to the Orlando SMA.
Take a bus
Quote from: rjp2008 on December 04, 2008, 10:32:21 AM
No.
First, they need to renovate the Jaguars.
Second, bring more businesses into the surrounding area to make it more than just a football destination. Finish the Shipyards and turn Randolph street into a place to be seen at.
Without the Jaguars (and the Suns/Arena), there's no reason for your average citizen to go down there. Let's figure out a way to accomplish both, neglecting neither.
I'm just bewildered by the timing on this. Peyton's had this report in his hands since Feb. 07, and is just now getting around to it the week the team has it arse whipped on national TV, whith the spectre of a losing season hanging over its collective head.
Had the plans been announced in the past offseason, there would have been less potential controversy. While less critical than other issues in Jax, It's another example of how we move too slowly as a city.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on December 04, 2008, 10:28:35 AM
Quote from: copperfiend on December 04, 2008, 10:11:37 AM
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on December 04, 2008, 10:09:04 AM
HMMM seems like a ploy before the team leaves the city.
I think you're reading too much into it.
Your opinion, my opinion.
The report is two years old and it's standard maintenance. You obviously are entitled to your opinion.
QuoteI'm just bewildered by the timing on this.
Me too! That is the first thing that crossed my mind.
Do these upgrades also not ensure the future of the Fla/Ga game or Gator Bowl?
:)
Quote from: copperfiend on December 04, 2008, 10:47:07 AM
Do these upgrades also not ensure the future of the Fla/Ga game or Gator Bowl?
Any group who uses the stadium stands to benefit, yes.
The sticking point with people who oppose the Jaguars at any cost will be that it was apparently the Jaguars alone who commissioned the report. Most would appear to have no concept of the fact that without the NFL, we'd probably still have rickety steel scaffold bleachers and a single, 25-year-old concrete upper deck if the stadium hadn't already collapsed by now.
And we'd have no Gator Bowl or Fla/Ga game. The Jaguars saved both.
I think we have a pretty nice stadium, I wonder what they plan on doing as far as renovations go?
Alot of it is for basic things like repaving the parking lots, replacing seats and plumping improvements.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on December 04, 2008, 11:05:10 AM
I think we have a pretty nice stadium, I wonder what they plan on doing as far as renovations go?
From the article linked in the OP:
QuoteWhat a stadium can get for $148 million
The February 2007 report, commissioned by the Jaguars, is full of upgrades that are said to be needed just to keep up the current level of service to fans. Here’s how it breaks down:
Audio-visual: $4.4 million
Building system upgrades, including air-handling equipment, plumbing and boiler system: $18.1 million
Seating repairs and replacement: $15.4 million
Exterior finish: $2.4 million
Various equipment, including storage, trash bins and forklifts: $4.6 million
Food service equipment: $6.2 million
Handheld communications: $560,000
Interior finishes: $24.3 million
Scoreboards: $867,000
Video boards: $37.6 million
Security: $200,000
Sound systems: $5 million
Telecommunications: $1.8 million
Waterproofing: $5.8 million
“Other,†which includes parking lot and elevator maintenance: $21 million
Source: February 2007 HOK architects’ report
Not cheap huh. It's amazing how exspensive things are now a days. Imagine the cost on the Cardinals stadium with the sliding field and the stadiums with retractable roofs.
That is why there isn't a team in LA. People talk about the Jags moving to LA but it won't happen because a new stadium now would cost you well over a billion dollars.
I hope this doesn't sound superficial, but I hope some of the money will be spent on cosmetic changes in and around the stadium. Don't get me wrong, it is a nice funtional stadium, but lacks that certain "Wow" factor. Maybe some more LED ribbons on the inside, major landscaping on the outside, and perhaps some nighttime signature lighting. I now a lot of people are going to be upset about the money but I believe this is just an upgrade to part of the cities infrastructure. The people of this city need to realize that this stadium was built at a bargain price to begin with and with the Jaguars, FLA_GA, and the Gator Bowl, the stadium is a major source of economic impact and tourism.
I am curious to see what the 37 million for "video boards" is.
For that price, I hope they're the panoramic ones that nearly span each end zone.
I doubt any new landscaping will be done, all of Jax tends to be very uninspired when it comes to landscaping.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on December 04, 2008, 12:01:10 PM
I doubt any new landscaping will be done, all of Jax tends to be very uninspired when it comes to landscaping.
I am with you there. Driving around Orlando and then returning home, the first thing I notice is all of the dead grass and weeds.
Quote from: copperfiend on December 04, 2008, 11:02:58 AM
And we'd have no Gator Bowl or Fla/Ga game. The Jaguars saved both.
Or Monster truck rally... ;D
ok, maybe i'm in the minority on several fronts here... but, i have been to games and I enjoy it when I go to see a game at the stadium, but I can't afford to go to every game. If they lowered the price, would I go to every game... no, i have other stuff to do. But, I think there comes a time to cut the cord.... I have a MUCH better time at Suns games then I do at Jags games
Let's be honest, a lot of the talk about lowest ticket prices in League is a moot point... people make less here.
Do the Jags increase our exposure on a national basis? That point is debatable... what kind of press do we want as a city? Do we want everyone to know about one of our richest community members getting gunned down in a parked car early in the morning? What are ideas about our city are being re-enforcing?
Are the Jags the only reason for people to go downtown? I highly doubt that... How many of those people who are so crazy about Jags even know there is an Artwalk every month? Or even bother to look for other things because they don't have the money to do anything else? I was amazed that ArtWalk was on the news last night.... but the Jags get extensive coverage on the news, everyday!
How about instead of a local sports radio show... a local music show... How about instead of a local Jags TV show, we have a local variety talk show...
I've seen bands in Jacksonville play to 20 people, when they play to 2000 in other cities... i don't think we are full of hicks, i think we are fully of spoonfeed people, and people that don't fit into our city have to move away.
Not to take anything away from the people that are working really hard to bring bands and nightlife to our town.... but often times I have to go out of town to see a band I like...
Just look at what the city has been doing to clubs downtown the past year.... The city doesn't want us to have any other reason to go downtown...
I would rather see us lose the Jags and keep some of the awesome, amazing, positive talented poeple that leave for greener pastures every year...
So, in summary, I don't see the benefit of the Jags for the city at this point, but then again maybe I'm missing something....
I have another idea to use the stadium and tickets would be cheaper.... MLS is expanding... they are looking to add 2 more teams..... Imagine getting a $20 ticket to go the stadium and seeing an MLS game... or the Stadium actually being able to host concerts again... and taking the Skyway from the Southbank, all the way to Stadium for that game! Maybe the people who run the stadium will have to get imaginative and bring people in for other events... festivals, races, swap meets.... anything/everything... plus if the city was spilling 1.5 mil to keep it up each year, that's a whole lot better than shelling out 100 mil every 10 years (along with the normal upkeep items)... you know this 148 Mil is another band-aid, and we will need to upgrade again in 10 years...
OR
INVEST THE $148 MILLION in local transport projects! Trainsportation will benefit the city more, and will put us on the map as a progressive, forward thinking city.
Then build some cool tourists destinations... let's start another large fest like the Jazz fest for another style of music... Let's do something... i agree with the person who said earlier said we as a city are too slow.
Otherwise, I can think of 20 other things that the city could invest 1/148th of that money in, and it would contribute to our city!
There's an idea.... open our city up to ideas... submit your plans to use 1 million dollars to help the city...... heck at this point they could give 25 ideas almost 6 million each!
You talk about the stadium being used for concerts or an MLS team. Would the parking lots still not need to be repaved? The plumbing updated?
QuoteI have another idea to use the stadium and tickets would be cheaper.... MLS is expanding... they are looking to add 2 more teams..... Imagine getting a $20 ticket to go the stadium and seeing an MLS game... or the Stadium actually being able to host concerts again... and taking the Skyway from the Southbank, all the way to Stadium for that game!
So the city that has trouble selling out 10 games of a sport more popular is going to sell out 81 (home games) of a sport less popular?
$148 million would even extent the skyway another 5 miles. I love the idea of public rail transportation, but I truely believe this city is too spread out to make it logical.
Winthrop,
Why do we have to lose one aspect of our city to keep or expand the other? Other NFL cities have all of what you want from Jax. We can't hang all of it on the Jags being here. It's a symptom maybe, but not the cause of the issues you outlined.
We need to be able to both keep what he have and expand and improve all our city has to offer.
I've purchashed tickets as low as $42. I just dont see where that's exspensive(jmo). They also offer a payment plan on season tickets where you can pay through out the yr before the season starts so there's options out there for those who want to go, but may not have the cash all at one time.
Jax is better off with the Jags than without imo. There's no other sport you can bring here and get the same crowd we get on Sunday even with out a sell out. 32 cities have NFL teams I think we are lucky to have one.
The Jaguars as a team(organization) just need to get there act together and we will be fine.
Quotewould rather see us lose the Jags and keep some of the awesome, amazing, positive talented poeple that leave for greener pastures every year...
Who are these talented people and where are they going?
Musicians?
Moving to LA?
QuoteI've seen bands in Jacksonville play to 20 people, when they play to 2000 in other cities...
How does getting rid of an NFL team help this cause, a cable access show? I've played in orginal music live bands since 15 years old and if no one came to our shows we didn't blame the Jaguars.
Quote from: ac on December 04, 2008, 02:29:24 PM
Winthrop,
Why do we have to lose one aspect of our city to keep or expand the other? Other NFL cities have all of what you want from Jax. We can't hang all of it on the Jags being here. It's a symptom maybe, but not the cause of the issues you outlined.
We need to be able to both keep what he have and expand and improve all our city has to offer.
Great point. We should cherish and expand on the things we do have and that will enable us to attract other things in the long run. I am as frustrated as anyone about our slow like mentality when it comes to advancing things in this city. We have to realize that in the big scheme of things we are a relatively young and new city when it comes to our ability to have everything in our downtown that all of the other major cities do. Do I think there are more important things we could spend this money on? Sure I do. But
I still think this is a sound investment for our future.
In another topic on this site... There is discussion about top tiered cities. Jax is one of only 32 cities to have an NFL franchise. Clearly we do get national exposure. The name Jacksonville is mentioned on nearly every national sports show across the nation (and world) on a daily basis. The only bad press we get is how bad the Jags are this year. If we aspire to be a top tiered city an NFL franchise is part of the puzzle... We have a leg up on a lot of other cities...
MetroJacksonville.com > Urban Thinking > Urban Issues > Global Cities. What are they? What is Jacksonville?
Quote from: Shwaz on December 04, 2008, 02:27:31 PM
QuoteI have another idea to use the stadium and tickets would be cheaper.... MLS is expanding... they are looking to add 2 more teams..... Imagine getting a $20 ticket to go the stadium and seeing an MLS game... or the Stadium actually being able to host concerts again... and taking the Skyway from the Southbank, all the way to Stadium for that game!
So the city that has trouble selling out 10 games of a sport more popular is going to sell out 81 (home games) of a sport less popular?
$148 million would even extent the skyway another 5 miles. I love the idea of public rail transportation, but I truely believe this city is too spread out to make it logical.
I think you are confusing MLB - Major League Baseball, with MLS - Major League Soccer.
QuoteMajor League Soccer is the top-flight professional soccer league in the United States and was founded in 1996, after the country hosted the 1994 FIFA World Cup. Now in its 13th season in 2008, MLS is experiencing a period of growth highlighted by expansion, the construction of soccer-specific stadiums, and the addition of new investors. The San Jose Earthquakes joined the League as an expansion team this year. Seattle will be home to an expansion team named Seattle Sounders FC in 2009 and the Philadelphia area will be home to the 16th team in 2010. The League announced in July 2008 that expansion to 18 teams will be completed by 2011.
TEAMS:
Eastern Conference:
Chicago Fire
Columbus Crew
D.C. United
Kansas City Wizards
New England Revolution
New York Red Bulls
Toronto FC
Western Conference:
Chivas USA
Colorado Rapids
FC Dallas
Houston Dynamo
Los Angeles Galaxy
Real Salt Lake
San Jose Earthquakes
Seattle begins play in 2009, Philadelphia in 2010; their conference affiliations will be announced at a later date.
SEASON:
* The 2008 MLS regular season opens March 29 and ends Oct. 26. The MLS Cup Playoffs begin Oct 30. MLS Cup 2008, the League's championship game, will take place Nov. 23 at The Home Depot Center in Carson, Calif.
* In 2008 the 14 MLS teams will each play a 30-game regular season and eight teams will advance to the MLS Cup Playoffs. The top three teams in each conference, plus two "wild cards" with the most points after 30 games, regardless of conference, will qualify. The team that finishes with the most regular season points is awarded the Supporters' Shield and earns an automatic bid to the annual CONCACAF Champions Cup tournament.
http://web.mlsnet.com/about/
A 30 game season would be 15 home games. If the tickets are reasonably priced, I can see good attendance at these games. The old Tea Men drew good crowds. A quick look at the DC United (Washington DC's team) shows single game tickets range from $22 - $50, with various discounts from those prices.
psst - Bridge Troll - only 31 NFL cities, New York has 2 teams
I was incorrect.... MLS is even less popular than MLB and JMS is too large and overkill for MLS anyways.
QuoteIf we aspire to be a top tiered city an NFL franchise is part of the puzzle... We have a leg up on a lot of other cities...
Exactly. We should be more concerned with how our city has so far mostly squandered the opportunity and exposure afforded by the NFL being here.
That the city squanders its opportunities to shine has been a problem since long before the Jaguars were here, and will be even more evident if they were to leave. The Jaguars have little to nothing to do with it.
Quotepsst - Bridge Troll - only 31 NFL cities, New York has 2 teams
:D :D Thanks Charles :D :D
Quote from: GatorShane on December 04, 2008, 02:59:55 PM
Quote from: ac on December 04, 2008, 02:29:24 PM
Winthrop,
/quote] We have to realize that in the big scheme of things we are a relatively young and new city when it comes to our ability to have everything in our downtown that all of the other major cities do. Do I think there are more important things we could spend this money on? Sure I do. But
I still think this is a sound investment for our future.
Jacksonville is no where near to being young and new when it comes to having things in our downtown. If that were the case, how in the world would we able to host the NFL's biggest show the SB. Sure good and bad came out of that. National awarness was increased. It cost money have a NFL team, the city was aware of this before trying to get one. The main problem with downtown has been a long list of poor decision making and a resident population not aware or concerned enough to make city officials held accountable for their actions.
Quote from: BridgeTroll on December 04, 2008, 03:16:35 PM
Quotepsst - Bridge Troll - only 31 NFL cities, New York has 2 teams
:D :D Thanks Charles :D :D
31 NFL cities have team yes, New York is a state. There are other states(cities with in states) that have more than one team, TX, Ca, even Florida. When not counting Jax its still mention 31 other NFL cities.
Quote31 NFL cities have team yes, New York is a state.
New York is a city too... as in New York City or NYC. The state of NY has 3 teams when including Buffalo.
Ironically though both teams play in New Jersey.
QuoteThere are other states(cities with in states) that have more than one team, TX, Ca, even Florida.
Also OH, MO
Most MLS teams are now playing in soccer only venues. There are news one in LA, Chicago, Toronto and soon to be in NJ.
Quote from: copperfiend on December 04, 2008, 03:46:19 PM
Most MLS teams are now playing in soccer only venues. There are news one in LA, Chicago, Toronto and soon to be in NJ.
Would a proper pitch even fit in Jax Municipal? Because of the curvature of the stands, the playing surface narrows in width at the end zones, and there's not much length beyond the end lines, either. It would be a tight fit, if it fit at all.
Chicago's new stadium seats 20K for soccer games... JMS is much too big and would cost $148,000,000 to decontruct and fit to size.
Quote from: copperfiend on December 04, 2008, 11:50:26 AM
I am curious to see what the 37 million for "video boards" is.
I am sure that its just standard maintenance ;)
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on December 04, 2008, 03:17:47 PM
Quote from: GatorShane on December 04, 2008, 02:59:55 PM
Quote from: ac on December 04, 2008, 02:29:24 PM
Winthrop,
/quote] We have to realize that in the big scheme of things we are a relatively young and new city when it comes to our ability to have everything in our downtown that all of the other major cities do. Do I think there are more important things we could spend this money on? Sure I do. But
I still think this is a sound investment for our future.
Jacksonville is no where near to being young and new when it comes to having things in our downtown. If that were the case, how in the world would we able to host the NFL's biggest show the SB. Sure good and bad came out of that. National awarness was increased. It cost money have a NFL team, the city was aware of this before trying to get one. The main problem with downtown has been a long list of poor decision making and a resident population not aware or concerned enough to make city officials held accountable for their actions.
Keith-N-Jax, I realize Jax has always had certain things downtown. What I meant by being young and new was that other cities such as Chicago, Philadelphia, New York and Boston have been developing there downtowns for 100 to 200 years. Jacksonville, because of all of the destruction of so much of our urban fabric during the sixties and the seventies, we only really started to redevelop our downtown in a serious way in the mid to late eighties. I am in no way comparing Jax to these cities that I mentioned, but these are cities that have constantly been developing there downtowns for decades longer than Jacksonville..
Quote from: Charles Hunter on December 04, 2008, 03:10:46 PM
Quote from: Shwaz on December 04, 2008, 02:27:31 PM
QuoteI have another idea to use the stadium and tickets would be cheaper.... MLS is expanding... they are looking to add 2 more teams..... Imagine getting a $20 ticket to go the stadium and seeing an MLS game... or the Stadium actually being able to host concerts again... and taking the Skyway from the Southbank, all the way to Stadium for that game!
So the city that has trouble selling out 10 games of a sport more popular is going to sell out 81 (home games) of a sport less popular?
$148 million would even extent the skyway another 5 miles. I love the idea of public rail transportation, but I truely believe this city is too spread out to make it logical.
I think you are confusing MLB - Major League Baseball, with MLS - Major League Soccer.
QuoteMajor League Soccer is the top-flight professional soccer league in the United States and was founded in 1996, after the country hosted the 1994 FIFA World Cup. Now in its 13th season in 2008, MLS is experiencing a period of growth highlighted by expansion, the construction of soccer-specific stadiums, and the addition of new investors. The San Jose Earthquakes joined the League as an expansion team this year. Seattle will be home to an expansion team named Seattle Sounders FC in 2009 and the Philadelphia area will be home to the 16th team in 2010. The League announced in July 2008 that expansion to 18 teams will be completed by 2011.
TEAMS:
Eastern Conference:
Chicago Fire
Columbus Crew
D.C. United
Kansas City Wizards
New England Revolution
New York Red Bulls
Toronto FC
Western Conference:
Chivas USA
Colorado Rapids
FC Dallas
Houston Dynamo
Los Angeles Galaxy
Real Salt Lake
San Jose Earthquakes
Seattle begins play in 2009, Philadelphia in 2010; their conference affiliations will be announced at a later date.
SEASON:
* The 2008 MLS regular season opens March 29 and ends Oct. 26. The MLS Cup Playoffs begin Oct 30. MLS Cup 2008, the League's championship game, will take place Nov. 23 at The Home Depot Center in Carson, Calif.
* In 2008 the 14 MLS teams will each play a 30-game regular season and eight teams will advance to the MLS Cup Playoffs. The top three teams in each conference, plus two "wild cards" with the most points after 30 games, regardless of conference, will qualify. The team that finishes with the most regular season points is awarded the Supporters' Shield and earns an automatic bid to the annual CONCACAF Champions Cup tournament.
http://web.mlsnet.com/about/
A 30 game season would be 15 home games. If the tickets are reasonably priced, I can see good attendance at these games. The old Tea Men drew good crowds. A quick look at the DC United (Washington DC's team) shows single game tickets range from $22 - $50, with various discounts from those prices.
psst - Bridge Troll - only 31 NFL cities, New York has 2 teams
Having attended almost all the Tea Men games, only missed one, they did NOT draw well usually around 8000 for the average game. Loved them but MLS would be a major bust here
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on December 04, 2008, 02:39:16 PM
I've purchashed tickets as low as $42. I just dont see where that's exspensive(jmo). They also offer a payment plan on season tickets where you can pay through out the yr before the season starts so there's options out there for those who want to go, but may not have the cash all at one time.
Jax is better off with the Jags than without imo. There's no other sport you can bring here and get the same crowd we get on Sunday even with out a sell out. 32 cities have NFL teams I think we are lucky to have one.
The Jaguars as a team(organization) just need to get there act together and we will be fine.
Ticket prices are extremely reasonable for the jaguars, I pay 40 a game, have two, though I have someone else using my tickets. My mother who is 78 has a season ticket for gods sake. If she can afford it on a fixed income almost anyone in jacksonville can. The key is to limit the other expenses associated with the game.
Quote from: Shwaz on December 04, 2008, 10:42:07 AM
QuoteWe'll add the Skyway about the time Orange Park and St. Augustine are added to the Orlando SMA.
Take a bus
::) :o Uh Oh....
Two quick points. One, I work at the stadium and behind the scenes there are a lot of structural problems including broken plumbing, electrical problems and many "interior" needs to various parts of the stadium. Some of you might not know that the dining areas are used weekly for corporate trainings, meetings and dinners. The kitchen areas and dining facilities bring in revenue on top of game days, and deserve a makeover as well. There are definitely upgrades needed, although 148 million does seem a bit steep. I guess if you compare it to the cost of the new courthouse, it seems like nothing! ;)
My second point is I agree with those of you saying we need to invest in not just the stadium, but the surrounding area as well. We should have a skyway extension open at the same time the makeover is finished. A big unveiling seems appropriate! We also need to invest in the riverfront to better connect the stadium and arena to the downtown core. Since the city runs the stadium, we should get on the ball and start promoting for more than the monster truck rally. If we spend 150 million to upgrade there isn't a reason why we couldn't have concerts and other large events happening throughout the year. Perhaps we need to invest like other stadiums. Lambeau field in Green Bay has pubs, the Hall of Fame and other tourist attractions open year round. People go to eat at the stadium for lunch and dinner daily, even if there isn't a game! What sorts of venues around the stadium would we need to help us draw concert headliners and other sporting events? Hotels and restaurants within walking distance would be a good start. Perhaps a new Met Park? Moving Kids Kampus to a new location? What infill do we need? Does city hall even brainstorm like this? Can we get someone with a bit of creativity in there? Let's make the stadium the best there is, promote the hell out of it and create a destination for citizens and tourists alike. We could turn a profit if city hall got off its ass and did something!
Quote from: Shwaz on December 04, 2008, 02:44:29 PM
QuoteI've seen bands in Jacksonville play to 20 people, when they play to 2000 in other cities...
How does getting rid of an NFL team help this cause, a cable access show? I've played in orginal music live bands since 15 years old and if no one came to our shows we didn't blame the Jaguars.
Open your eyes, man!! I played in bands, too...in Gainesville, no less...and man, if not for the Jags, I'd be famous.
Quote from: ac on December 04, 2008, 03:51:51 PM
Quote from: copperfiend on December 04, 2008, 03:46:19 PM
Most MLS teams are now playing in soccer only venues. There are news one in LA, Chicago, Toronto and soon to be in NJ.
Would a proper pitch even fit in Jax Municipal? Because of the curvature of the stands, the playing surface narrows in width at the end zones, and there's not much length beyond the end lines, either. It would be a tight fit, if it fit at all.
It would fit, easily. A football field is 53 1/3 yards wide (160 ft). FIFA regulations, which MLS follows, requires a minimum width of 45 metres (about 49 yards). So a football field as is would do (the length falls within FIFA's regulations as well).
The real issue would be the quick demise of the Jacksonville Cyclones back in the 90s. And the fact that if MLS expands to Florida, it would be in Miami, where the La Liga giants, Barcelona FC, are sponsoring an MLS bid.
Charlotte spent $248 million to build the Carolina Panthers stadium when the Jaguars were also awarded our franchise. This is an impressive stadium if you have ever driven by it and and a great value considering the current construction cost. We decided to build an inferior product built around an upper deck that was constructed for the Gator Bowl. Doing research online the Panthers stadium has not had any upgrades. The total cost for JMS with improvements is now $351 million and we will still have an inferior product.
Am I the only one that thinks a 15 year product life is patently ridiculously? Aesthetically, the stadium is fine. If the plumbing and other internal systems didn't last but 15 years, someone needs to be sued.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on December 05, 2008, 01:37:20 AM
Quote from: ac on December 04, 2008, 03:51:51 PM
Quote from: copperfiend on December 04, 2008, 03:46:19 PM
Most MLS teams are now playing in soccer only venues. There are news one in LA, Chicago, Toronto and soon to be in NJ.
Would a proper pitch even fit in Jax Municipal? Because of the curvature of the stands, the playing surface narrows in width at the end zones, and there's not much length beyond the end lines, either. It would be a tight fit, if it fit at all.
It would fit, easily. A football field is 53 1/3 yards wide (160 ft). FIFA regulations, which MLS follows, requires a minimum width of 45 metres (about 49 yards). So a football field as is would do (the length falls within FIFA's regulations as well).
The real issue would be the quick demise of the Jacksonville Cyclones back in the 90s. And the fact that if MLS expands to Florida, it would be in Miami, where the La Liga giants, Barcelona FC, are sponsoring an MLS bid.
Hmm...that's what I get for not checking official sources for the dimensions. I was seeing an average size of 70x120 yds. I guess maybe the sources I found included bench area and end to end measurements instead of the regulation playing surface? Thanks!
Quote from: alta on December 05, 2008, 02:17:58 AM
Charlotte spent $248 million to build the Carolina Panthers stadium when the Jaguars were also awarded our franchise. This is an impressive stadium if you have ever driven by it and and a great value considering the current construction cost. We decided to build an inferior product built around an upper deck that was constructed for the Gator Bowl. Doing research online the Panthers stadium has not had any upgrades. The total cost for JMS with improvements is now $351 million and we will still have an inferior product.
The Jags' stadium has been consistently listed in the top 10 or better across the league for overall gameday experience. The ammenities of the stadium have a lot to do with those rankings. I'd say we do not have an inferior product. IMO, in order for us to keep competing with the new mega stadiums just built and those to be built in the future, some upgrades are certainly needed.
Edit: The Jacksonville Municipal Stadium is ranked #5 this year....
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/specials/fansurvey/2008/index.html
Quote from: vicupstate on December 05, 2008, 08:17:16 AM
Am I the only one that thinks a 15 year product life is patently ridiculously? Aesthetically, the stadium is fine. If the plumbing and other internal systems didn't last but 15 years, someone needs to be sued.
As someone who's in the plumbing/mechanical industry, 15 years is about right considering the use.
Quote from: MattnJax on December 05, 2008, 02:32:37 PM
Quote from: vicupstate on December 05, 2008, 08:17:16 AM
Am I the only one that thinks a 15 year product life is patently ridiculously? Aesthetically, the stadium is fine. If the plumbing and other internal systems didn't last but 15 years, someone needs to be sued.
As someone who's in the plumbing/mechanical industry, 15 years is about right considering the use.
The entire system? Repairs and maintenance I can see. The majority of the time no one or very few people are even in the stadium.
Quote from: MattnJax on December 05, 2008, 02:32:37 PM
Quote from: vicupstate on December 05, 2008, 08:17:16 AM
Am I the only one that thinks a 15 year product life is patently ridiculously? Aesthetically, the stadium is fine. If the plumbing and other internal systems didn't last but 15 years, someone needs to be sued.
As someone who's in the plumbing/mechanical industry, 15 years is about right considering the use.
Ive done plumbing work as well, you should see some systems that don't replace or update the plumbing after 15 - 20 years. Its lots of work.
Quote from: ac on December 05, 2008, 08:56:15 AM
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on December 05, 2008, 01:37:20 AM
Quote from: ac on December 04, 2008, 03:51:51 PM
Quote from: copperfiend on December 04, 2008, 03:46:19 PM
Most MLS teams are now playing in soccer only venues. There are news one in LA, Chicago, Toronto and soon to be in NJ.
Would a proper pitch even fit in Jax Municipal? Because of the curvature of the stands, the playing surface narrows in width at the end zones, and there's not much length beyond the end lines, either. It would be a tight fit, if it fit at all.
It would fit, easily. A football field is 53 1/3 yards wide (160 ft). FIFA regulations, which MLS follows, requires a minimum width of 45 metres (about 49 yards). So a football field as is would do (the length falls within FIFA's regulations as well).
The real issue would be the quick demise of the Jacksonville Cyclones back in the 90s. And the fact that if MLS expands to Florida, it would be in Miami, where the La Liga giants, Barcelona FC, are sponsoring an MLS bid.
Hmm...that's what I get for not checking official sources for the dimensions. I was seeing an average size of 70x120 yds. I guess maybe the sources I found included bench area and end to end measurements instead of the regulation playing surface? Thanks!
Actually, you're absolutely right. Typical fields are around 110-120 in length and around 70-75 wide. I was just saying that to meet minimum regulation size you only need to go 50 yards wide and we'd obviously meet that requirement. It's like baseball...the team can be built to suit its unique field for a good home field advantage.
Quote from: vicupstate on December 05, 2008, 03:17:33 PM
Quote from: MattnJax on December 05, 2008, 02:32:37 PM
Quote from: vicupstate on December 05, 2008, 08:17:16 AM
Am I the only one that thinks a 15 year product life is patently ridiculously? Aesthetically, the stadium is fine. If the plumbing and other internal systems didn't last but 15 years, someone needs to be sued.
As someone who's in the plumbing/mechanical industry, 15 years is about right considering the use.
The entire system? Repairs and maintenance I can see. The majority of the time no one or very few people are even in the stadium.
It's not so much of the intermittent use as it is the product life span and the strain on that system at times. And everything there is on a large scale, which means big bucks.
A letter just sent by John Peyton:
QuoteDear Friends,
There have been a number of press reports in recent weeks regarding potential expenditures for Jacksonville Municipal Stadium. I wanted to take a few minutes today to clarify that issue and also to provide you the details associated with legislation that has been introduced to the Jacksonville City Council proposing an amendment to the city’s contract with the Jacksonville Jaguars.
First though, I wanted to take a minute to talk about what having the Jaguars in Jacksonville means for our city. Jacksonville is a changed city since the arrival of the Jaguars. Regardless of the results of a particular season, the team is a source of pride for citizens and a rally point for all of us. The NFL’s selection of Jacksonville as its 32nd franchise city is a selling point that we use in pitching to economic development prospects. We receive national and international exposure almost daily and the “beauty shots†of Jacksonville during our televised games have more advertising value than we could ever afford to purchase.
In addition, the team’s owners, Wayne and Delores Weaver, have become an integral part of Jacksonville’s business, civic and philanthropic community. Between the Jaguars Foundation, the Weaver Family Foundation, the Jaguars partners, team members and current and former coaches, organizations across Jacksonville have received tens of millions of dollars because of their generosity â€" investments that would be lost without the Jaguars. Here are some significant data points:
· The economic impact of the Jaguars is in excess of $130 million per year.
· On game day, approximately 2,000 part-time or contract employees work providing services that include concessions, parking, ticket-taking, security, customer service and custodial operations.
· According to NFL officials, Super Bowl XXXIX created a $300 million economic impact in Jacksonville.
These are real jobs and real dollars that would be lost if the Jaguars were not part of our community.
Stadium Maintenance
As to the maintenance issues related to the stadium, unfortunately, recent reporting by the Florida Times-Union did not sufficiently describe the contents of a nearly two-year-old report regarding investments needed at the stadium. Based on that coverage you may have thought that the Jaguars are, right now, seeking $148 million in stadium upgrades, renovations and improvements. That is not accurate.
In February 2007, the Jaguars commissioned a capital life-cycle study of the stadium. The report was done by HOK Sport, the firm that provided engineering services on the stadium renovation prior to the 1995 inaugural season. The report’s findings span more than 20 years â€" meaning that the capital needs identified reflect work that may be required during the next 20 to 30 years. It also means that if implemented the costs associated with these items would be spread over that 20 to 30 year period. These costs relate to stadium maintenance and operations, not capital improvements, renovations or upgrades. This list of items includes replacement of air handling equipment, seat refurbishment (due to wear and tear), parking lot repaving, etc.
The report findings have not yet been implemented and the Jaguars agree that the stadium is in good working order. However, as with any facility that is nearly 15 years old, wear and tear does occur. As such maintenance issues must be addressed and investments will need to be made in the future to maintain the facility at a respectable standard.
Proposed Contract Amendment
The proposed amendment to the contract between the City of Jacksonville and the Jaguars (the ninth amendment to this contract) is intended to improve and clarify items in the lease related to potential sponsorships and revenue. While there is not currently a contract for a title sponsor on the stadium, when one is secured in the future, this amendment will help to ensure that the both the city and the team benefit financially. The legislation that has been introduced for the city council’s consideration does three things:
1. It improves and clarifies the contract language as it related to a stadium naming rights sponsor. The original lease granted the Jaguars 100 percent of the advertising revenue from the stadium naming sponsor and split stadium naming rights revenue 50/50 between the City and the Jaguars. Again, the City receives no revenue sharing for any separate agreements between the Jaguars and the naming rights sponsor related to advertising or related services. This made the relationship difficult to administer and it appears that as a result, the City received significantly less than 25 percent of total revenue from the Jaguar’s contractual relationship with a naming sponsor.
The proposed amendment guarantees the City 25 percent of all revenue associated with the naming rights and advertising from the stadium sponsor. This new provision provides transparency into all stadium naming rights agreements and ensures the City the same value, if not more, from future stadium naming rights agreements.
2. It provides ten club seats at Jaguars home games to the City for use as advertising inventory and resale to potential, separate naming rights sponsors of the sports complex, arena or baseball stadium. These tickets may only be used as part of a naming rights agreement for other facilities within the sports complex â€" city officials will not have access to these tickets.
3. It indentifies areas in the stadium available to the Jaguars for additional naming and advertising rights opportunities. Those areas are the parking lots, the will call area, east and west touchdown clubs, seating sections, south end zone elevator towers, interior gates and stadium tower light stanchions. The revenue associated with these rights will be used by the Jaguars to ensure continued financial viability.
The operation of the stadium and the continued viability of the Jacksonville Jaguars go hand-in-hand. We want to maintain the stadium with the presence of our major tenant â€" the Jaguars. Without them, the demand on the stadium drops dramatically, as does the value of the asset.
I know these are complex issues to outline in a message, however, I know these are things being discussed around dinner tables and water coolers throughout the city and I wanted you to know the facts.
Sincerely,
John Peyton
Mayor
That clears things up a bit.
Seems a bit more logical than a request for 148 mil of upgrades... Gotta love the T/U... ;)
QuoteThe Packers said they were not making any special preparations for the turf at Jacksonville Memorial Stadium.
Despite making all six of his kicks (three field goals, including a 54-yarder) against the Jaguars on Nov. 23, Minnesota Vikings kicker Ryan Longwell said Jacksonville’s field was the worst he had seen in a game that wasn’t affected by weather.
"It was a total sand pit," the former Packer said. None of the Packers was aware they might be playing on bad turf, including Stock.
"Everybody will probably take a couple of pairs of shoes down with them," Stock said. "We’ll change after warm-ups if we need to."
Anyone with any insight??
The turf at the stadium is usually rated among the best in the league. Surprising to hear that.
I received the Mayor Peyton email also. Disturbing Let's put a freeze on stadium spending considering the current city budget.
Quote from: BridgeTroll on December 12, 2008, 07:54:37 AM
QuoteThe Packers said they were not making any special preparations for the turf at Jacksonville Memorial Stadium.
Despite making all six of his kicks (three field goals, including a 54-yarder) against the Jaguars on Nov. 23, Minnesota Vikings kicker Ryan Longwell said Jacksonville’s field was the worst he had seen in a game that wasn’t affected by weather.
"It was a total sand pit," the former Packer said. None of the Packers was aware they might be playing on bad turf, including Stock.
"Everybody will probably take a couple of pairs of shoes down with them," Stock said. "We’ll change after warm-ups if we need to."
Anyone with any insight??
That is strange. I haven't been able to find any other recent news about the Jag's turf besides the article you quoted from. Like copperfiend stated, usually we rank high in the league with our turf. I remember the turf for the Super Bowl, and it was immaculate. Maybe it's time for a resodding.
Quote from: alta on December 12, 2008, 09:12:57 AM
I received the Mayor Peyton email also. Disturbing Let's put a freeze on stadium spending considering the current city budget.
I disagree. We can't afford to have one of our prized city possession fall apart and suffer neglect.
Exactly, the damn thing is already "nameless", so to speak. That hurts is enough.