To this has been a disappointing season would be an understatement. Dreams of a Super Bowl have soon turned to doubt about whether the team can win 5 games. Players like Fred Taylor and Paul Spicer who were the cornerstone of last year's 11-5 squad now look like aging has-beens on their last leg. Young players seemingly on the rise like Reggie Williams, Marcedes Lewis, Justin Durant and Reggie Nelson have struggled for much of the season. The team is getting zero production from it's free agent and draft class this past offseason. Now what? Who goes and who stays?
Shack Harris will be gone. That is a given. It may be a cosmetic move as he was stripped of much of his power this past offseason. Keeping that in mind, how much change would truly be made when he is let go? What becomes of head scout Gene Smith? If any area needs change would it not be college scouting?
Where does Del Rio fall into this? I don't think he will be fired at this point but if the team goes winless, could Weaver keep him? He just signed an extension last offseason and would be owed a handsome payout. And let's not kid ourselves. This isn't a franchise with pockets full of cash to throw away.
And has anybody looked at next year's home schedule? It's not pretty when it comes to ticket sales. Arizona, St. Louis, Buffalo. There will be blackouts next year. It could get ugly.
It is time to "get young". Anyone with more than 5 or 6 years in the NFL should get serious scrutiny. The number one and possibly number two picks should be traded for additional picks. New team leaders need to be developed and a new core of players to grow up and learn together.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs07/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=3221211
Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 24, 2008, 10:42:45 AM
It is time to "get young". Anyone with more than 5 or 6 years in the NFL should get serious scrutiny. The number one and possibly number two picks should be traded for additional picks. New team leaders need to be developed and a new core of players to grow up and learn together.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs07/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=3221211
Good article.
"A lot of times, teams become victims of the aging process by holding on to players too long. The Chiefs did just that after a making the playoffs in 2006. By staying with too many old players, the Chiefs looked old and brittle during a horrible 4-12 season. "
Sound familiar?
Yes. I realize Fred Taylor is a sentimental favorite but he never should have made the team this year. In fact since the season is lost all veterens should be quickly evaluated by age and "what have you done lately" and sat down so rookies and third stringers can get out there and be judged. Put Terry Porter and any other malingerers on IR (or cut em) and make room for practice squad people and street free agents.
Looks like we're trying to play for a high draft pick now. Though we know how those turn out.
QuoteYes. I realize Fred Taylor is a sentimental favorite but he never should have made the team this year.
FT rushed for over 1000 yards last season (splitting time with MJD) and made the Pro-bowl. Why would you cut him before the season even started?
I agree his production this year has severly dropped off but he get almost no playing time. MJD is getting most of the touches and he's not having a good year either. Should they cut him too?
I liked JDR's comment "This may be the best practice team of all time".
Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 24, 2008, 10:42:45 AM
The number one and possibly number two picks should be traded for additional picks. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs07/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=3221211
Indeed ... the exact opposite of what the Jaguars did this year.
Let's think about the Jags core personel strengths and weaknesses for a second. Strengths: They draft extremely well in rounds 2 and below. Weaknesses: They draft poorly in round one and overpay medicore free agents (bonus points if they were washouts from the Vikings!!)
With that in mind, it seems crazy that they traded away their draft for a couple of DEs that haven't panned out. Just imagine how much better off they would have been if they had kept the later round picks and taken a couple of servicable O-linemen.
I stand by my assesment of Fred. Save some cap room... draft another young back or two. IMO they kept Fred around for leadership this year. It is plain to everyone that there is not much positive leadership amongst the senior jaguars.
QuoteWith that in mind, it seems crazy that they traded away their draft for a couple of DEs that haven't panned out. Just imagine how much better off they would have been if they had kept the later round picks and taken a couple of servicable O-linemen.
I agree drafting DE's in the first 2 rounds was bit desperate but calling them busts is a mistake. It takes at least 3 season to fully evaluate a player.
Quotestand by my assesment of Fred. Save some cap room... draft another young back or two.
MJD is the future RB of the team and that's why he's getting more playing time even still you wouldn't cut a pro bowl RB in this system from day 1 that just rushed for over 1000 yards and showed plenty of gas left in the tank.
Greg Jones is locked up long term, MJD will sign a new contract in the off season and Chauncey Washington was drafted last year.. he looked impressive in the time he got.
Quotebut calling them busts is a mistake
I agree but for the price we paid for that ONE guy... if you trade down you double or triple the number of young players at the same price or less. In addition... if one of them do not pan out it is not a hit to your salary cap. The league is filled with 4th rounders and below...
Tony Romo was an undrafted free agent... ;)
Quoteagree but for the price we paid for that ONE guy... if you trade down you double or triple the number of young players at the same price or less. In addition... if one of them do not pan out it is not a hit to your salary cap. The league is filled with 4th rounders and below...
Tony Romo was an undrafted free agent...
I agree completely. The only problem was this was the year it changed. Prices for top 10 picks sky rocketted out of control. The Jags didn't anticipate a 30% increase over picks last year and tried to hold the line of reason which resulted in Harvey's hold out.
I believe we will trade our first round pick next year especially if it's in the top 10. I hope we can.
I think the Jaguars thought they were one player away when they got Harvey. They were wrong.
QuoteI think the Jaguars thought they were one player away when they got Harvey. They were wrong.
They were in the New England game
Dont make the same mistakes again. We need players who what to win a Championship and not just collect a paycheck.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on November 24, 2008, 03:01:02 PM
Dont make the same mistakes again. We need players who what to win a Championship and not just collect a paycheck.
I think the players they have want to win. Unfortunately, they just aren't very good players.
Well let's hope that Harvey/Grooves develope into a nightmare for the opposing offense. Also the Jags have shown with no running game they cant win. They cant erase decifits greater than 10 points because there is no passing game. More of a balance offense is needed I think. Nothing wrong being a run first team, but you cant fall behind and try to develop a passing game on Sunday.
That was a really bad showing Sunday, really bad.
Quote from: copperfiend on November 24, 2008, 02:48:33 PM
I think the Jaguars thought they were one player away when they got Harvey. They were wrong.
If they thought that whether or not it was Harvey they were wrong. Even if Harvey IS the guy you are one helmet to the knee away from being right where you were.
More young players with a high turnover rate. Very few players should remain on a team more than 6 years or so...
Look at the youngest teams last year...
Green Bay* 25.72
Indianapolis* 25.74
Cincinnati 26.08
Dallas* 26.08
Carolina 26.17
Arizona 26.21
San Diego* 26.23
N.Y. Giants* 26.26
Minnesota 26.28
Buffalo 26.33
Most went to the playoffs or were in contention or are this year.
Quote from: copperfiend on November 24, 2008, 10:14:09 AM
And has anybody looked at next year's home schedule? It's not pretty when it comes to ticket sales. Arizona, St. Louis, Buffalo. There will be blackouts next year. It could get ugly.
The Jags schedule is not set til the end of the season copper...
here is what we got so far....yea it does look a lil ugly.
Colts - Division Home
Colts - Division Away
Texans - Division Home
Texans - Division Away
Titans - Division Home
Titans - Division Away
Seattle - NFC rotation Away
Arizona - NFC rotation Home
St Louis - NFC rotation Home
San Francisco - NFC rotation Away
Miami - AFC rotation Home
New England - AFC rotation Away
New York J - AFC rotation Away
Buffalo - AFC rotation Home
3rd or 4th Place AFC Home
3rd or 4th Place AFC Away
^^^^ thats our schedule for next year, but we will not know the final two teams until the 2008 season is finished. Most likely the Raiders (home) & Browns (away)
The biggest home game in my book is Miami
May get the Steelers again is that possible? On a good note I dont think those team listed will have a tremendous fan base following them. Thats good in one way,because I am so tired of opposing fans celebrathing in our stadium(in good numbers) and before anyone says our fans need to support the team, yes they do. Looks like a easy schedule, but we know that doesnt exist when dealing with the Jaguars.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on November 24, 2008, 05:55:34 PM
May get the Steelers again is that possible? On a good note I dont think those team listed will have a tremendous fan base following them. Thats good in one way,because I am so tired of opposing fans celebrathing in our stadium(in good numbers) and before anyone says our fans need to support the team, yes they do. Looks like a easy schedule, but we know that doesnt exist when dealing with the Jaguars.
Only way to get the Steelers in 2009 is to have a 1st Place AFC schedule, Jag will have a 3rd or 4th place schedule. We don't play the AFC North til 2011
Knowing the future schedule is knowing the rotations
2008 AFC North
2009 AFC East
2010 AFC West
2011 AFC North
the pattern continues from there. Same thing for the NFC Divisions except its a 4 year rotation. Jaguars play the Falcons, 49ers, Cowboys, Packers etc every 4 years.
2 of the games go to the place you finish in. So if you finish first you play all the 1st place teams in your conference. Example the 4-5 years that Colts & Patriots always played each other in the regular season. They would always win their divisions. So in 2009 Jets, Steelers, Titans & "guessing" Broncos will all play each other because they are the division winners.
Hope that helps.
It does thanks. Bottom line though they need to win more than lose no matter the opponet. I hope that's the case for the 09 season.
Fire Shack. Bring back Jack. Fire the OC and the DC. Fire the scouts. Bring in a good GM that can bring a good scout team with him. Draft an OL with the 1st round pick. Pretty much rebuild the lines on both sides of the ball. Try and find a good vetern LB, and hope that Harvey and Groves can make a huge leap next season.
I think our Offense is good, minus the Offensive line, which I feel is the main reason we have struggled so much this year. They can't run block and they can't pass protect.
As far as the Defense. Where to begin? lol ... We have no pass rush. We can't stop the run, and teams throw all over our secondary. You would think they would be the best playing side of the ball cause that's Jack's specialty, but they're not, and that's scary.
It's going to be an interesting offseason for sure.
I wouldnt say offense is good. Our running game is good with a good 0-line, but the passing game or lack of. We need another Jimmy Smith and dont say Matt Jones. Porter well, we will see next yr if he's just here for the check. No opponet is worried about the Jags going deep, so they stack box and dare DG to beat them, so far its work, for the opponet that is.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on November 24, 2008, 09:15:41 PM
I wouldnt say offense is good. Our running game is good with a good 0-line, but the passing game or lack of. We need another Jimmy Smith and dont say Matt Jones. Porter well, we will see next yr if he's just here for the check. No opponet is worried about the Jags going deep, so they stack box and dare DG to beat them, so far its work, for the opponet that is.
Notice I didn't say great. lol ... I think they are good. They showed last season what they can do if they have a good OL. Fact is is we can't run the ball, and can't pass because Garrard has to scramble for his life everytime he takes a snap. And I would never call Matt Jones Jimmy Smith, but I think he's a threat for the Jags, and seems to be on the same page with Garrard, which is a plus. Porter is a disappointment, as is Marcedes (again).
Wipe out the entire Jaguars roster, coaches, owners, etc.. bring in a multi-trillion dollar mogul who could buy Jet Favre from the New York Brett's, Randy Moss, and Reggie Bush. Then just draft players from Florida and Oklahoma to fill the rest of the positions. You won't have to worry about the coaching staff, Jag Favre would take care of it all.
Hey, you asked.
We asked, but I think everyone was expecting serious replies. :) In order to get those players they first have to be available.
Jag Favre would lead the Jaguars to 10 super bowl wins in a row, no doubt.
Quote from: MattnJax on November 24, 2008, 09:09:03 PM
Fire Shack. Bring back Jack. Fire the OC and the DC. Fire the scouts. Bring in a good GM that can bring a good scout team with him. Draft an OL with the 1st round pick. Pretty much rebuild the lines on both sides of the ball. Try and find a good vetern LB, and hope that Harvey and Groves can make a huge leap next season.
I actually think you keep the OC. He did a great job last year. He just needs players.
Quote from: copperfiend on November 25, 2008, 07:31:02 AM
Quote from: MattnJax on November 24, 2008, 09:09:03 PM
Fire Shack. Bring back Jack. Fire the OC and the DC. Fire the scouts. Bring in a good GM that can bring a good scout team with him. Draft an OL with the 1st round pick. Pretty much rebuild the lines on both sides of the ball. Try and find a good vetern LB, and hope that Harvey and Groves can make a huge leap next season.
I actually think you keep the OC. He did a great job last year. He just needs players.
Yeah it is a tough call, but I just look at his play calling this year and it's horrible.
Part of me blames Del Rio there. He plays it very close to the vest. When Koetter was in college, his teams threw it all over the field,
They dont have the protection or the WR's to "throw it all over the field". I would like to see the Jags get back to a run it first, mow you down running game, with the ability to make teams pay when they load the box. We are/were a pound it out, control the clock team. I think both the DC and OC stay and Harris is out
Could always use a Jacksonville solution to the delima here.
1. Buy the Vikings and move them to Ponte Vedra "The PVV has a ring to it."
2. Join a minor league team and rule the league for a year, maybe two.
3. Wholesale abandon the team in the stadium.
4. Start a roumor that the team will leave next Saturday.
Just my observation from the poop deck.
OCKLAWAHA
We probably will hafta go through another mediocre/poor season til' the Jags say adios to Del Rio, and the gang; I CAN'T wait until then! D. Koetter called a pretty good game IMO against MIN, but thanks to Scobee, Pashos, and M. Lewis; Face it, we just suck! We will continue to struggle as long as JDR is the coach; I know he's a former player, probably could be in a magazine like Men's Fitness, he has the "Jacked up" T-shirts, women love him, etc, etc, etc; Unfortunately, that DOESN'T equal to wins on the football field. Just my 2 cents.
JDR isn't going anywhere... his contract says so. He's taken the team from salary cap disaster left by Coughlin, transformed the teams identity and took them to the playoff's twice in 4 years.
The players are the ones on the hot seat... not the coordinators or JDR.
Fragile Fred wants out: http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/112708/jag_360339033.shtml
Quote from: Fred TaylorTaylor, 32, said he saw the handwriting on the wall that he's being phased out when he was on the field for only 22 snaps in the 30-12 loss last Sunday to the Minnesota Vikings.
"When the opportunities become minimized, you have to prepare for what comes next," Taylor said as he repeated comments he made on Sirius NFL Radio on Tuesday.
He wanted to make it clear the "next" doesn't include retirement.
"I don't want people to think I'm in the mode to retire because I'm not," Taylor said. "I don't want them to think I'm not passionate. I don't want them to feel my skills have diminished. I still feel like I can compete on a higher level. That's why I said I will play somewhere. I've got to play football. At this point, it seems that's all I know."
Quote from: deathstar on November 27, 2008, 05:42:17 AM
Fragile Fred wants out: http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/112708/jag_360339033.shtml
Quote from: Fred TaylorTaylor, 32, said he saw the handwriting on the wall that he's being phased out when he was on the field for only 22 snaps in the 30-12 loss last Sunday to the Minnesota Vikings.
"When the opportunities become minimized, you have to prepare for what comes next," Taylor said as he repeated comments he made on Sirius NFL Radio on Tuesday.
He wanted to make it clear the "next" doesn't include retirement.
"I don't want people to think I'm in the mode to retire because I'm not," Taylor said. "I don't want them to think I'm not passionate. I don't want them to feel my skills have diminished. I still feel like I can compete on a higher level. That's why I said I will play somewhere. I've got to play football. At this point, it seems that's all I know."
Fred needs to retire a Jag. He can always get in broadcasting. Please don't pull the Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, Emmitt Smith thing....That is so lame when players to that. There is plenty of money left in NFL and it doesn't have to be on the field.
Quote from: deathstar on November 27, 2008, 05:42:17 AM
Fragile Fred wants out: http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/112708/jag_360339033.shtml
Quote from: Fred TaylorTaylor, 32, said he saw the handwriting on the wall that he's being phased out when he was on the field for only 22 snaps in the 30-12 loss last Sunday to the Minnesota Vikings.
"When the opportunities become minimized, you have to prepare for what comes next," Taylor said as he repeated comments he made on Sirius NFL Radio on Tuesday.
He wanted to make it clear the "next" doesn't include retirement.
"I don't want people to think I'm in the mode to retire because I'm not," Taylor said. "I don't want them to think I'm not passionate. I don't want them to feel my skills have diminished. I still feel like I can compete on a higher level. That's why I said I will play somewhere. I've got to play football. At this point, it seems that's all I know."
Nice hatchet job.... number one, You don’t get 11k yards if you are fragile and number 2, no where in that article does he say he wants out...
MJD would be at 11k yards in 5 years if he were with another team.
:o
And yeah.. because athletes always say it out loud that they want out, before they find a better team. Come on, this is 2008, who DOESN'T want to stay with a out of sync, pathetic team before they retire? Yahoo for the athletes who go down in the record books as guys who did their job really really well, but never got a Super Bowl Ring. That's why they play the game 8)
After last night, is this the low point of the franchise? At least in the past when they team had a sub-.500 record, it was a young team. During last night's game I noticed all the guys who had 6+ years of service in the league. Garrard, Taylor, Porter, Spicer, Henderson, Meier, Hayward. This is not a young team. And our best player on defense, Mathis, left the game with a knee injury that looked much worse than the announcers made it out to be. 4 games left; @ Chicago, v. Green Bay, v. Indy and @ Baltimore. They aren't winning another game.
Quote from: copperfiend on December 02, 2008, 07:38:11 AM
After last night, is this the low point of the franchise? At least in the past when they team had a sub-.500 record, it was a young team. During last night's game I noticed all the guys who had 6+ years of service in the league. Garrard, Taylor, Porter, Spicer, Henderson, Meier, Hayward. This is not a young team. And our best player on defense, Mathis, left the game with a knee injury that looked much worse than the announcers made it out to be. 4 games left; @ Chicago, v. Green Bay, v. Indy and @ Baltimore. They aren't winning another game.
Yeah I don't see us winning another game this year either. This might be the lowest point. But the 2000 season was pretty low too. In 1999 we had the best record in the league at 14-2 and made it to the AFC Championship game before losing to the Titans. Now granted we were an older team in 2000, but after being oh so close to the Super Bowl it was very disappointing to go 7-9 that year. The next two years after that when we had back to back 6-10 seasons and were in salary cap hell sucked too.
Quote from: copperfiend on December 02, 2008, 07:38:11 AM
After last night, is this the low point of the franchise? At least in the past when they team had a sub-.500 record, it was a young team. During last night's game I noticed all the guys who had 6+ years of service in the league. Garrard, Taylor, Porter, Spicer, Henderson, Meier, Hayward. This is not a young team. And our best player on defense, Mathis, left the game with a knee injury that looked much worse than the announcers made it out to be. 4 games left; @ Chicago, v. Green Bay, v. Indy and @ Baltimore. They aren't winning another game.
From an optimist's POV -
The problems are fixable. The Jags under Del Rio have been built to run the ball and stop the run - just like the Titans. We lost Marcus Stroud and Grady Jackson on the defensive line and two quality starting OGs in Manuwai and Mo Williams.
We need to fix the lines. I'd like another quality DT, an OT and an OG just in case Manuwai or Mo aren't at 100% next year. We could also use another nickle CB.
We probably will finish in last place. That means we'll draw a last place schedule, playing against the weak NFC West. I'll bet you we bounce back next year.
I like your optimism... gotta love parity!
Based on current standings, the Jags' schedule next year would consist of the following teams:
Colts (x2)
Texans (x2)
Titans (x2)
Bills
Dolphins
Patriots
Jets
Cardinals
Rams
Seahawks
49ers
Bengals
Chiefs
Quote from: mikew on December 02, 2008, 01:44:41 PM
From an optimist's POV -
The problems are fixable. The Jags under Del Rio have been built to run the ball and stop the run - just like the Titans. We lost Marcus Stroud and Grady Jackson on the defensive line and two quality starting OGs in Manuwai and Mo Williams.
We need to fix the lines. I'd like another quality DT, an OT and an OG just in case Manuwai or Mo aren't at 100% next year. We could also use another nickle CB.
We probably will finish in last place. That means we'll draw a last place schedule, playing against the weak NFC West. I'll bet you we bounce back next year.
As much as I want be an optimist, I'm finding more pessimism with Jack Del Rio as head coach. Granted, he has created a semi-competitive team in the past, reaching a peak last year. However, I'm finding myself disappointed with his decisions, especially considering that the Jags gave up on a coach that is now coaching the 2008 Super Bowl champs who are looking to repeat. The reality is that the Jags let Coughlin go too soon, and instead found a mediocre coach.
Face it, the Jags were more respected and had better talent with Coughlin, while Del Rio has hired mediocre talent. While Coughlin's Jags may have had a salary cap problem, you cannot ignore what he has done with the Giants. Also, I'm beginning to think Garrard's season last year was a fluke, which questions Del Rio's capability for assessing QB and other offensive talent. I also agree with copperfiend on the play-calling.
How does no one remember the destruction Tom Coughlin did to this team. It was just this time last year that HE was on the hot seat and almost out of a job.
Is he a great coach? Yes
So is
Steve Spagnuolo as defensive coordinator
Kevin Gilbride as offensive coordinator
Spagnuolo will be head coach in the next couple season and most likely coaching the Giants
Gilbride... name sound familliar? He's the same Kevin Gilbride that drew up the Jags offense during the good years
Coughlin tried to be GM + Offensive Coordinator + Head coach all at the same time. He mortaged the teams fututre paying way too much for way too old players that ended up collecting a paycheck from their sofa's.
Coughlin was mocked and ridiculed in this town until January of last year... now he's Tom Lom-frickin-bardi
All I'm saying is that Tom Coughlin may have screwed things up in Jax, but he almost did that with the Giants, and now look at him. Yes, he's not perfect, but his Giants are Super Bowl champs and Del Rio's Jags are not even in the playoff hunt. Leadership is always crucial to fielding a championship team; case in point, my #1 team (Miami Dolphins). What a difference good leadership makes, regardless of the players.
Exchanging a good head coach for mediocrity isn't smart. I'm not saying to fire Del Rio, but the differences with the successes of the coaches are glaring. Maybe Del Rio can pull it around next year...but I don't have my hopes up.
I think the Jag's problems go much deeper than coaching. In last nights whooping, Tony Cornhole mentioned an interview with Fred Taylor before the game where Fred stated that this Jags team was the worst he had ever played on and that there was no passion to win amongst many of the players. You could see that lack of passion last night. Its hard to say if the Peterson incident is indicative of this or if it was an isolated altercation, but coaching nor talent are the problems with the Jaguars, IMO.
Quotecase in point, my #1 team (Miami Dolphins). What a difference good leadership makes, regardless of the players.
The Dolphins played the NFC / AFC West this year and had the easiest schedule in the league. Playing 2 Playoff teams from last year.
Del Rio is not mediocre. He's built the team back to 3 playoff games in the toughest division in the years he's been here. His record is over .500 and was dealt a full collapse after the offensive line went down opening day.
The Cowboys lost 1 player and burnt to a crisp immediately. We lost our identity through injury and poor play.
I understand the anger against Del Rio. I have to admit, I felt some it myself last night, after watching the team roll over. But Del Rio didn't cause Porter to drop that critical pass last night. He didn't causeMeester to make a bad snap against the Vikes. He didn't cause Witherspoon to fumble the ball in that same game. He's not the reason Khalif Barnes constantly jumps offsides.
Jack inherited a young, salary cap strapped team, and look what he's done each year: 4-12, 9-7, 11-5, 8-8, 12-4. I think fans are caught up in the heat of the moment, when the reality is, Jack's done a pretty decent job. in Jacksonville. Weaver's not going to fire him.
I respectfully disagree with you regarding Garrard. Garrard has no protection and almost no running game to rely on. Opponents are placing a target on his back. Also consider that our recievers are, frankly, mediocre. With all of those problems, do you really think a better quaterback - like say Manning or Tom Brady - would make this team a playoff contender?
Quote from: copperfiend on December 02, 2008, 07:38:11 AM
After last night, is this the low point of the franchise? At least in the past when they team had a sub-.500 record, it was a young team. During last night's game I noticed all the guys who had 6+ years of service in the league. Garrard, Taylor, Porter, Spicer, Henderson, Meier, Hayward. This is not a young team. And our best player on defense, Mathis, left the game with a knee injury that looked much worse than the announcers made it out to be. 4 games left; @ Chicago, v. Green Bay, v. Indy and @ Baltimore. They aren't winning another game.
The worst record in Jaguar history is 4-12 the 1995 season. If the Jags go 4 -12 this year it will be the worst season in Jaguar history, even worse then TC 5-11 seasons. :-[
What the hell is this "Battle Red" thing Houston is doing?, I just learned about that this year. The Houston fans circle our date every year....I think it is time Jacksonville does the same thing to them. This thing is just coming apart...badly.
Shack Harris is the problem. His office is the evaluator of free agent and draft talent. They have overpaid for aging mediocre free agent talent and misfired on too many picks in the draft. Harris does the hiring and firing. The Jags need to find a superstar GM like Ron Wolf or some of the other up and comers. Of course it may be hard to find one since Del Rio just got an extension... most GMs of that type want to clean house and start over with their own people.
Quote from: Shwaz on December 02, 2008, 05:34:10 PM
Quotecase in point, my #1 team (Miami Dolphins). What a difference good leadership makes, regardless of the players.
The Dolphins played the NFC / AFC West this year and had the easiest schedule in the league. Playing 2 Playoff teams from last year.
Schedules are nothing, because this is the "On Any Given Sunday" NFL. We can debate that until we're blue in the face, but you have to admit coaching instills vision, pride, and motivation to win among the players. Cam Cameron simply did not have that amongst a young team last year, and the team came close to being the worst ever in NFL history. Enter Bill Parsells and Tony Sparano...now the Fins are actually looking at playoffs, which is just unbelievable.
QuoteDel Rio is not mediocre. He's built the team back to 3 playoff games in the toughest division in the years he's been here. His record is over .500 and was dealt a full collapse after the offensive line went down opening day.
The Cowboys lost 1 player and burnt to a crisp immediately. We lost our identity through injury and poor play.
I'll agree with you, the Jags have suffered terrible losses in the starting lineup. In addition, they've had dramatic distractions with one of their OLs being shot and Matt Jones having drug problems.
However, Fred has a point about the motivation of the team. They're playing like they don't give a crap, and I saw the obvious lack of enthusiasm/passion Monday night. Whose job is it to instill passion in the players? That's right, the head coach. Del Rio is not doing his job in that aspect of the team.
I'm not saying Weaver needs to fire Del Rio, but I just don't think he's a great coach. Again, which Jags coach has led a team to a championship and looking to repeat? If Del Rio changes his mindset about a few things, I believe he can make the Jags contenders again next year, but I think I'm being too optimistic. Let's see what his team can do when its healthy again.
QuoteWhose job is it to instill passion in the players?
If the players are unmotivated and not passionate they should be let go. As pros... they should be motivating themselves... this is not high school.
^ Very true, but you still need a leader with vision and motivational skills. If players could completely motivate themselves, head coaches would be obsolete.
QuoteVery true, but you still need a leader with vision and motivational skills. If players could completely motivate themselves, head coaches would be obsolete.
Millions of dollars is what should motivate everyone of these guys. What is JDR suppossed to do. Sky Dive on the practice feild with a boom box on his shoulder blastic enter sandman?
Now that these
players aren't motivated for post season reasons maybe keeping their job will or playing for a free agent contract will.
My favorite part of the "Jaguars All Access" show was / is the 'in the locker room segmen't. I love Jack's composure and demeanor towards the players. It's obvious he's a motivator, and if you still wanna question it go to one of his seminars that he does off the field.
Or just be mad that we don't win it all every season and put a target on his back.
Shwaz, I'm not trying to put a target on his back. However, I am making a legitimate observation.
JDR might be a good motivational speaker, but that's different from being a motivational leader in an organization. It may very well be that the players on the team are playing like uninspired jackasses, and the coach can't do anything about it. The players will still make their millions, though, regardless if they make the playoffs are not. Financial incentives may help inspire them more, but if that is how the Jags players think, then we need to rebuild a team with guys that actually give a darn.
:)
???
QuoteShwaz, I'm not trying to put a target on his back. However, I am making a legitimate observation.
JDR might be a good motivational speaker, but that's different from being a motivational leader in an organization. It may very well be that the players on the team are playing like uninspired jackasses, and the coach can't do anything about it. The players will still make their millions, though, regardless if they make the playoffs are not. Financial incentives may help inspire them more, but if that is how the Jags players think, then we need to rebuild a team with guys that actually give a darn.
Being an emotional leader doesn't correlate to winning games. Look at the Patriots. They won 18 games last season lost 1 player and their now 3rd place in the AFC East behind the Dolphins. Do you think everyone in NE wants Bellichick gone? Is everyone questioning his leadership.
These players are not in college anymore... this is a job to them with an unbelievable salary. If you want to continue getting paid you'll play good, if you want to be one of the "great ones" you'll play great and find that with in themselves.
Actually New England is tied for first.
They're tied record wise but lose in the head to head categories.
Quote from: Shwaz on December 09, 2008, 01:22:51 PM
Being an emotional leader doesn't correlate to winning games. Look at the Patriots. They won 18 games last season lost 1 player and their now 3rd place in the AFC East behind the Dolphins. Do you think everyone in NE wants Bellichick gone? Is everyone questioning his leadership.
These players are not in college anymore... this is a job to them with an unbelievable salary. If you want to continue getting paid you'll play good, if you want to be one of the "great ones" you'll play great and find that with in themselves.
We'll continue to disagree here. First, the Pats and Jags are
completely different teams in their player makeup and overall strategy. Second, the Pats are
still in contention despite the loss of Brady for the season. Of course no one in Boston is going to even look into firing Bellicheat (sp. intentional), because despite losing stars, the team is still winning. JDR with the Jags either does not know how to motivate or inspire his players to win when their stars are injured, or he does not know how to recruit depth within the player roster.
Let's put it this way...if Weaver was not the owner, JDR's job would be in jeopardy right now. Those aren't just my words; several Sporting News analysts have made that observation as well.
Sorry, Shwaz, I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
Analysts are retarded and just try to stir contoversy.
How about we use the Chargers for example then?
SD made it to the AFC Championship, knocked off the Colts and were getting better every game.
LT got a little dinged up and Shwan Merriman was lost for the season and they're all but mathematically out of playoff contention.
When dealing with injuries you need more than motivated players, you need depth and talent. The offensive line plug-ins are not the answer and that is killing every side of the ball. The field is shortened, the running game gets stuffed and the defense spends a mjority of the game on the field.
Just answer this... Last year when Del Rio's contract was coming to an end did you want to see him resigned long term?
When Garrard put up record points and 3 interceptions weren't we all hoping for a new contract to lock him up?
I'm starting to think Garrard had a fluke season. The last truly talented QB the Jags have had was Mark Brunell...he had a better winning percentage than Garrard as well as a better passer rating, and let's be honest, he had more of the intangible's of being a QB: field general, poise, and motivator. I was impressed with Garrard last year, but I'm not going to make a final decision on him, yet.
As for Del Rio, how many winning seasons has he had in comparison to losing seasons? Last year may indeed have been an impetus for keeping him, but now we're starting to see that the coach is rather inconsistent. Considering this fact, if Del Rio was with most other teams, they would be threatening his job, at least privately.
Despite Del Rio's faults, I'm sure Detroit would gladly take him. He is a better coach and leader than others in the league.
Or the Packers for that matter... WTF happened? Lose in OT in the NFC championship game to be 5-8 now? Dont tell me because of Favre being gone. Rodgers has performed as well or better. The rest of the team is virtually identical.
Players have to play well. You can teach, prod, pull, cajole... and motivate but if they do not play well...
You lose. >:(
QuotePlayers have to play well. You can teach, prod, pull, cajole... and motivate but if they do not play well...
You lose.
EXACTLY!
It's a shame the pain of losing completely blindsides people and they need someome to shoulder total blame... all paths lead to head coach and QB.
Look, I'm not placing sole blame on Del Rio or Garrard, but you have to look at the stats and facts which show that there may be some inconsistency. I'm not being blindsided, but I am seeing some glaring differences with previous Jag seasons.
Sheesh, up here in Charlotte, John Fox has had more success with the Panthers, and last year there were rumblings about his job security.
There are many people to blame within the Jags organization, but you cannot deny responsibility from the head coach just because he's the head coach.
It seems to me that many of you are OK with the Jags' mediocrity. I would expect more from these guys (the majority of the team), and they are not doing their job.
QuoteLook, I'm not placing sole blame on Del Rio or Garrard, but you have to look at the stats and facts which show that there may be some inconsistency. I'm not being blindsided, but I am seeing some glaring differences with previous Jag seasons.
Sheesh, up here in Charlotte, John Fox has had more success with the Panthers, and last year there were rumblings about his job security.
There are many people to blame within the Jags organization, but you cannot deny responsibility from the head coach just because he's the head coach.
It seems to me that many of you are OK with the Jags' mediocrity. I would expect more from these guys (the majority of the team), and they are not doing their job.
You are the prime example of spoiled contradiction.
Charlotte wanted John Fox gone because of inconsistency. Now they sit atop of their division and all your analysts power rankings. Don't you see that if the knee jerk spoiled baby fans had their way the Panthers would be "rebuilding “with a new staff and nowhere near playoff bound?!
The Panthers are a great example in that they were picked by Sports Illustrated a few years ago and crowned SB champs before the season even started and didn't come close to .500 that year.
Who is to blame with-in the Jags organization? All you talk about is Garrard and Del Rio.
Shack Harris?
Dirk Koetter?
Gregg Williams?
Personnel decisions?
Go back and look through the Jags draft history round for round and it's a tie between Harris/ Del Rio & Coughlin. They both had just as many good picks as bad picks.
You’re not sold on Garrard? He doesn’t have poise? He put the team on his back in Pittsburg last year and that will go down in Jags folklore. He spends the season on his back in turf but you never said anything about poor offensive line play.
You can expect to win every game if you want... your just setting yourself up for disappointment.
Good argument, there, Shwaz. Very impressive. BTW, I'm not a huge fan of analysts, but I was using their information to support my argument. Believe me, I do not count their opinion as law.
I just expected the Jags to build on what they did last year, and this season has me suspecting that last year was a fluke. If they can it turnaround next year, I'll stand corrected. However, I'm still not impressed with the product long term. If you could compare the Jag teams during the Coughlin era and Del Rio era, I think the team was better under Coughlin. Granted, I have mentioned Garrard and Del Rio the most, but you can also place the blame on that porous O-line. The secondary has not made the plays, and the D-line has allowed teams to pick them apart. There is plenty of blame to go around.
This is what I'm really trying to say: under Del Rio, I don't know if he is capable of building a consistent Super Bowl contender. This season may be a fluke, after all, and I may be jumping the shark here. The Jags next year may be the Panthers this year. Who knows? However, if the Jags go for another 1-2 seasons with similar results, I suspect that more fans will be calling for his head.
I guess the bottomline is: how long should fans (of any team) wait for a head coach to make a true contender?
QuoteI guess the bottomline is: how long should fans (of any team) wait for a head coach to make a true contender?
It's like Weaver said at the end of the Coughlin era "Doing the same thing over and over again with the same results is the definition if insanity"
Del Rio has gone up & down since 2003. This will be his second losing season and it was completely unexpected.
Here's his career stats
JAX 2003 5 11 0 .313 3rd in AFC South - - - -
JAX 2004 9 7 0 .563 2nd in AFC South - - - -
JAX 2005 12 4 0 . 750 2nd in AFC South 0 1 .000 Lost to New England Patriots in AFC Wild-Card Game.
JAX 2006 8 8 0 .500 3rd in AFC South - - - -
JAX 2007 11 5 0 .688 2nd in AFC South 1 1 .500 Lost to New England Patriots in AFC Divisional Game.
JAX 2008 4 9 0 .333 TBD - - - -
Coughlin had 3 losing seasons in a row and sent the team into salary cap troubles to say the least. He shot himself in the foot with the jack of all trades mentality.
JDR took the team from said financial problems and had them over .500 one season later.
Quote from: Charleston native on December 09, 2008, 04:42:44 PM
I guess the bottomline is: how long should fans (of any team) wait for a head coach to make a true contender?
After a winning season? 2 years. If a coach has 2 losing seasons after a winning one then the 3rd season he is on the hot seat. Coughlin had 3 losing seasons after the 1999 season.
Another thing. 2003-2006 were Leftwich years, the year 2005 Leftwich was hurt most of the season and Garrard won a lot of games. Leftwich was put back in for the New England playoff game. We Lost.
QuoteCoughlin had 3 losing seasons after the 1999 season.
Coughlin was also the GM and offensive coordinator. He spent $$$ like madman to buy a SB team and mortgaged the future of the team. He made extremely bad personnel moves towards the end and had guys no longer in the league collecting millions.
Since then spending has slowed and the team was rebuilt. Leftwich showed promise and stories of his Marshall days were enough to move Brunnell out of town.
The 2 best records under Del Rio was mostly Garrard at the helm.
We have a nucleus to build on.
On a side note I think Gregg Williams will be gone after the season as he was only signed for 1 year and hasn’t made any real improvements to the defense.
This is all good information, and believe it or not guys, I can agree with you about keeping JDR and Garrard a while longer. I guess I'm just frustrated with this season. Also, you have to consider my experience with my #1 team, the Dolphins. The team badly needed a leadership and culture change in order for it to be as good as it is now. Sparano with Parcells as GM has been TREMENDOUSLY better than Cameron's or Saban's leadership.
Just out of curiosity, does Coughlin have the same power of GM and offensive coordinator in NY?
No. He is just the head coach.
That's what I thought.
seppuku while we still have some pride