I've heard figures tossed around as high as 6k new jobs. Anyone know if these are civilian or military jobs?
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2008/11/17/daily6.html (http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2008/11/17/daily6.html)
Quote
Naval Station Mayport will be getting a nuclear-powered carrier, multiple Congressional sources confirmed Monday afternoon.
The Navy told key Florida lawmakers, including Sens. Bill Nelson and Mel Martinez as well Rep. Ander Crenshaw, that Mayport will be a home port for a nuclear carrier.
Nelson received word around noon in a phone call from Secretary of the Navy Donald Winter.
Good news for Jacksonville.
Holy cow, this is a BIG DEAL!
I'd assume the majority of the new jobs will be military because of the regulations involved with nuclear power as well as the mass of personell that will be manning the ship itself, but I'm not sure.
I think we sometimes underestimate the importance of our Navy facilities. This is huge news.
This is good news and I hope it really happens. With so much bad news out there, its nice to hear something good for a change.
Awesome news for the area. This along with the Hanjin deal and the proposed Mayport cruise terminal show just how vital our waterways are for our area economy.
Yeah, wow. This is indeed big big news.
This is along the lines of landing a fortune 500 company (or two) in terms of economic impact to the city.
Beyond the direct impact of new jobs, it also probably guarantees that Mayport and NAS are immune from the next round of base closures.
Great news! Bring us the new carrier. The sooner the better.
BTW, why should dredging and wharf improvements take 5 years?? We won WW2 and developed the atomic bomb faster than that. Must be budgetary problems.
Quote from: RiversideGator on November 17, 2008, 11:18:06 PM
Great news! Bring us the new carrier. The sooner the better.
BTW, why should dredging and wharf improvements take 5 years?? We won WW2 and developed the atomic bomb faster than that. Must be budgetary problems.
They are dredging using boats not by bombing river with nuclear bombs.
Quote from: RiversideGator on November 17, 2008, 11:18:06 PM
Great news! Bring us the new carrier. The sooner the better.
BTW, why should dredging and wharf improvements take 5 years?? We won WW2 and developed the atomic bomb faster than that. Must be budgetary problems.
It wont... The carrier will probably begin using Mayport in three years or so. It is the support facilities that must be built, rebuilt. The biggest being the nuclear support facilities. I imagine Mayport NAS needs upgrades also since the nuke will carry significantly more and newer types of aircraft than JFK did.
If I remember correctly, not that many of the carrier-based aircraft were land-based at Mayport NS. Most were at Cecil, some at NAS-JAX, and at other bases along the east coast. Hopefully, someone with more knowledge here will chime in.
Quote from: Charles Hunter on November 18, 2008, 07:09:07 AM
If I remember correctly, not that many of the carrier-based aircraft were land-based at Mayport NS. Most were at Cecil, some at NAS-JAX, and at other bases along the east coast. Hopefully, someone with more knowledge here will chime in.
You are correct. Between deployments the airwing will mostly be stationed at Oceana in Virginia. NAS Mayport will still have to be able to provide support though.
Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 18, 2008, 07:13:07 AM
Quote from: Charles Hunter on November 18, 2008, 07:09:07 AM
If I remember correctly, not that many of the carrier-based aircraft were land-based at Mayport NS. Most were at Cecil, some at NAS-JAX, and at other bases along the east coast. Hopefully, someone with more knowledge here will chime in.
You are correct. Between deployments the airwing will mostly be stationed at Oceana in Virginia. NAS Mayport will still have to be able to provide support though.
That sucks that most of the airwing will be stationed in Virginia. I don't understand why we can't station them here. Do we not have the facilities?
This only proves my point stated here before. The St. Johns River, with the expanding port, new cruise ship terminal, and an expanded Mayport, will be the economic engine that drives this city for years to come.
Water has always been important to Jacksonville, it is great that our economy continues to recieve good news in these slow times. Thank God for our river and what it means to us.
Quote from: MattnJax on November 18, 2008, 07:37:40 AM
That sucks that most of the airwing will be stationed in Virginia. I don't understand why we can't station them here. Do we not have the facilities?
We don't have enough facilities at NAS JAX, and NS Mayport is only used for Helicopter training, besides ships. Oceana is a Master Jet Base, NAS JAX is a Master P3 base.
QuoteThat sucks that most of the airwing will be stationed in Virginia. I don't understand why we can't station them here. Do we not have the facilities?
We voted to not allow the Navy to come back to Cecil with those 30,000 jobs about two years ago. At the time, city leadership and a majority of the public thought we would be better off long term turning Cecil into an industrial park, manufacturing center and tract housing.
QuoteOur ship has come in
(http://www.jacksonville.com/images/mdControlled/cms/2008/11/18/357224088.jpg)
The decision to base a carrier at Mayport comes eight months after the Navy unveiled a draft environmental impact statement that laid out 13 possibilities for the future of the naval station, ranging from doing nothing to moving eight ships and 7,158 personnel there.
The carrier-only option means that personnel levels likely will still fall from 2006, the last full year the Kennedy was based at Mayport, when about 13,280 people worked at the base. The drop will come because the Navy plans on phasing out 10 of the 13 frigates at the base, cutting 2,150 jobs.
Minus those ships but including the carrier, Mayport will have just over 12,000 personnel on base, including 3,190 who come with the carrier, compared with the 10,000 or so there now. That growth is expected to impact area businesses and schools that have languished as the base's population plummeted.
The decision doesn't mean other ships won't eventually come, said Dan McCarthy, chief of the city's military affairs office.
"I don't think that means we're not getting an amphibious ship," McCarthy said. "As we expand and build and increase the value of the fleet at Mayport, we'll see other ships."
full article: http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/111808/met_357118007.shtml
Doesn't a typical carrier come with supplementary ships (i.e. a Battle or Strike group/escorts) - or is that already in place?
We are in the running for the new H.W. Bush carrier. This ship has yet to have it's stike groups and such assigned to it.
Quote from: Charles Hunter on November 18, 2008, 07:09:07 AM
If I remember correctly, not that many of the carrier-based aircraft were land-based at Mayport NS. Most were at Cecil, some at NAS-JAX, and at other bases along the east coast. Hopefully, someone with more knowledge here will chime in.
This is from many years ago when I was a military advisor, back in the 90's but the helicopters came out of Mayport, the f-14 squadrons out of Norfolk, the f/a-18 and A-7's out ot Cecil, A-6 and EA-6b squadrons came from oceana as well I believe. I think the E-2c and c-2 are out of oceana as well, but someone could correct me on that. The S-3's were out of Cecil and later jax, but believe those have all been decommissioned.
QuoteThis ship has yet to have it's strike groups and such assigned to it
But what's typical(?) - would the expectation be that those ships (destroyers, cruisers, etc.) would call Mayport home as well? When the JFK, Saratoga, & Forrestal left, did other battle group ships redeploy to other bases or, were they ever here to begin with?
- Just want more boats, man........ :) (Greedy)
Quote from: civil42806 on November 18, 2008, 09:37:58 AM
Quote from: Charles Hunter on November 18, 2008, 07:09:07 AM
If I remember correctly, not that many of the carrier-based aircraft were land-based at Mayport NS. Most were at Cecil, some at NAS-JAX, and at other bases along the east coast. Hopefully, someone with more knowledge here will chime in.
This is from many years ago when I was a military advisor, back in the 90's but the helicopters came out of Mayport, the f-14 squadrons out of Norfolk, the f/a-18 and A-7's out ot Cecil, A-6 and EA-6b squadrons came from oceana as well I believe. I think the E-2c and c-2 are out of oceana as well, but someone could correct me on that. The S-3's were out of Cecil and later jax, but believe those have all been decommissioned.
A modern U.S. Navy carrier air wing consists of:
Three Strike Fighter Squadrons (VFA) of F/A-18 Hornets
One additional Marine Fighter Attack Squadron of F/A-18 Hornets provided by the U.S. Marine Corps (VMFA)
One Electronic Attack Squadron (VAQ) of EA-6B Prowlers
One Carrier Airborne Early Warning Squadron (VAW) of E-2C Hawkeyes
A detachment from a Fleet Logistics Support Squadron (VRC) of C-2 Greyhounds
One Helicopter Antisubmarine Squadron (HS) of SH-60F & HH-60H Seahawks.
As to the security of the Navy bases currently here:
This city can know, w/o any doubt, NAS JAX and NS Mayport are here to stay, to at least 2020. With the movement of all East Coast P3 squadrons to NAS(from Brunswick, ME), and the replacement with the P8 Poseidon around 2012 to 2015 timeframe, NAS JAX is secure and will stay. Although, Cecil Field originally was supposed to stay, and NAS JAX to go, but last few months decisions changed it. Now, the BRAC realizes it was a costly mistake.
NS Mayport is secure, even before this carrier announcement. With the reactivation of the 4th Fleet and bringing more boats in from Norfolk, the base is here to at least 2020 as well. The Navy knows it needs to spread out its boats from Norfolk. We learned from pearl Harbor, and right now, Norfolk NS is today's Pearl Harbor. They will spread ships around, and Mayport is quite likely to land the H.W. Bush. If not the Bush, then the currently approved Gerald R. Ford likely will call Mayport home.
The Navy is the most solid foundation this region has, and will be for many, many years to come.
This is much bigger then the Navy people are letting on. Frankly, I think we are being sent to our room for dumping the return to Cecil Field. Somebody PLEASE tell them that Lee Field in Green Cove Springs
will make a better "New Jet Base" anyway. FYI, Whitehouse field already has a runway as long as Cecils.
The fourth fleet without a carrier is dead. The carrier without the fleet is also dead. So you can bet your last buck it's coming. That carrier isn't coming alone either. They'll be a DD of FFG off the Port and Starboard as well as picket craft - which could be as large as light cruisers CL, or destroyers DD, or Fast Frigates FFG. A fed mles North and South of the ship. ... and... that's just the ones you will be able to see.
As an old Swab, and a son of a son of a sailor, I've got some idea opn how this will come about. When the new fleet goes to play in Southern waters, Brazil will be there with the Light Attack Carriers Sao Paulo A-11, or Minas Gerais A-12 surrounded by the firepower of 5 or 6 major warships. When our own USS Washington, comes in from the Caribe, she will be safely tucked into the arms of the Armada Republica Colombia or the ARC, as the photos shows...
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/TRAVEL%20COLOMBIA%20and%20Latin%20America/TheColombianShipArcAl4565.jpg)
Even at worst, we can look for many more major war ships to call this home port, as well as endless air port and facilities to handle aircraft... Don't be shocked WHITEHOUSE residents when that base springs back to round the clock use, nor should Green Cove Springs (NAS LEE FIELD) or Camp Blanding.. This amazing new thought is just boiling to the surface, it seems that back in 41 the Japanese managed to sink 1/2 of our navy sitting at Pearl Harbour, without much of a fight. Now they are thinking of drawing down Norfolk, and San Diego.
With the new USMC depot here, expect to see the little assualt carriers make a showing too. In fact having a couple in the fleet would be something of a comfort. Maybe in the future we'll have 3 carriers for the price of one!
Take it from a swab, a REAL son of a son of a son of a sailor.
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/CRITICAL%20Special%20Effects%20Images/utahBB31.jpg)
Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 18, 2008, 09:59:46 AM
Quote from: civil42806 on November 18, 2008, 09:37:58 AM
Quote from: Charles Hunter on November 18, 2008, 07:09:07 AM
If I remember correctly, not that many of the carrier-based aircraft were land-based at Mayport NS. Most were at Cecil, some at NAS-JAX, and at other bases along the east coast. Hopefully, someone with more knowledge here will chime in.
This is from many years ago when I was a military advisor, back in the 90's but the helicopters came out of Mayport, the f-14 squadrons out of Norfolk, the f/a-18 and A-7's out ot Cecil, A-6 and EA-6b squadrons came from oceana as well I believe. I think the E-2c and c-2 are out of oceana as well, but someone could correct me on that. The S-3's were out of Cecil and later jax, but believe those have all been decommissioned.
A modern U.S. Navy carrier air wing consists of:
Three Strike Fighter Squadrons (VFA) of F/A-18 Hornets
One additional Marine Fighter Attack Squadron of F/A-18 Hornets provided by the U.S. Marine Corps (VMFA)
One Electronic Attack Squadron (VAQ) of EA-6B Prowlers
One Carrier Airborne Early Warning Squadron (VAW) of E-2C Hawkeyes
A detachment from a Fleet Logistics Support Squadron (VRC) of C-2 Greyhounds
One Helicopter Antisubmarine Squadron (HS) of SH-60F & HH-60H Seahawks.
Thanks for the update!
Quote from: reednavy on November 18, 2008, 08:39:50 AM
Quote from: MattnJax on November 18, 2008, 07:37:40 AM
That sucks that most of the airwing will be stationed in Virginia. I don't understand why we can't station them here. Do we not have the facilities?
We don't have enough facilities at NAS JAX, and NS Mayport is only used for Helicopter training, besides ships. Oceana is a Master Jet Base, NAS JAX is a Master P3 base.
Thanks for the answer. So was Cecil Field a master jet base before it's closure? and if it was, are there no other Master jet bases in Florida because Oceana seems so far away to keep an entire aircraft carrier airwing.
Quote from: thelakelander on November 18, 2008, 08:51:24 AM
QuoteThat sucks that most of the airwing will be stationed in Virginia. I don't understand why we can't station them here. Do we not have the facilities?
We voted to not allow the Navy to come back to Cecil with those 30,000 jobs about two years ago. At the time, city leadership and a majority of the public thought we would be better off long term turning Cecil into an industrial park, manufacturing center and tract housing.
For the record, I was in favor of the Navy returning to Cecil. But I did have mixed emotions, as I think a lot of people had, because of the enormous potential for the Commerce Center. But now that the ecomony has taken a really bad downturn, it's looking like we made the wrong decision.
Cecil was the master jet base and the Navy looked at bringing the jets back during the last round of the BRAC. We had massive debates here during that period. Imo, it was always a stretch to claim the city would have the ability to see more economic success at some point in the distance future than opening the master jet base back up. Our leaders can't even get a courthouse out of the ground or Friendship Fountain fixed. Its all done now and we must move on but sometimes I sit back and think about how different our local economy would be if we had an influx of 30,000 new residents.
Quote from: thelakelander on November 19, 2008, 11:47:08 AM
Cecil was the master jet base and the Navy looked at bringing the jets back during the last round of the BRAC. We had massive debates here during that period. Imo, it was always a stretch to claim the city would have the ability to see more economic success at some point in the distance future than opening the master jet base back up. Our leaders can't even get a courthouse out of the ground or Friendship Fountain fixed. Its all done now and we must move on but sometimes I sit back and think about how different our local economy would be if we had an influx of 30,000 new residents.
Thanks for the response. I really don't understand what our city leaders are thinking most of the time. I really wish they were more driven. There's so much possibility in this city, but sometimes I feel the city leadership doesn't see it. With the only exception being the port, which has grown tremendesly since Peyton took office.
Quote from: MattnJax on November 19, 2008, 12:06:45 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on November 19, 2008, 11:47:08 AM
Cecil was the master jet base and the Navy looked at bringing the jets back during the last round of the BRAC. We had massive debates here during that period. Imo, it was always a stretch to claim the city would have the ability to see more economic success at some point in the distance future than opening the master jet base back up. Our leaders can't even get a courthouse out of the ground or Friendship Fountain fixed. Its all done now and we must move on but sometimes I sit back and think about how different our local economy would be if we had an influx of 30,000 new residents.
Thanks for the response. I really don't understand what our city leaders are thinking most of the time. I really wish they were more driven. There's so much possibility in this city, but sometimes I feel the city leadership doesn't see it. With the only exception being the port, which has grown tremendesly since Peyton took office.
Part of what they were thinking was the residential and retail that was going to happen following closure. Oakleaf towncenter and the various oakleaf developments would not have been possible with F-18s doing touch and gos around the clock...
Yes, I remember that argument. I had problems with it at the time because everything they said that was not possible had already been constructed next to Virginia Beach's Oceana. Including a mall that makes Oakleaf Town Center look like a 1980s strip center. In the grand scheme of things it was as if we never attempted to do full research on the pros and cons of either option. Both sides drew their lines in the sand ran with it.
Nevertheless, to this day I still have a problem with allowing track home subdivisions like Oakleaf to be built so close to Cecil's 12,000ft runways. The residents that did not want F-18s flying around will also fight heavy jet traffic that a true aviation center generates (imagine if something like a UPS or FedEx freight hub came in and flew cargo jets around the clock). Just look at the fight around Craig and Whitehouse's runways. Btw, Whitehouse will still have F-18s doing touch and gos, they'll just be based out of Oceana. In any event, even without the Navy going back to Cecil, we should still do everything we can to protect the airport as a heavy manufacturing and industrial asset.
Agree 10000% Lake. Plus.... what will they make of it when Cecil becomes Florida's first space tourism port. Oh that was never discussed again? Nevermind.
as always about a problematic corporation, i say: change the management. How long has our current mayor being in office? The President has term limits. Why not the mayor?
He has term limits, however, was re-elected for a second term.
Quote from: MattnJax on November 19, 2008, 12:06:45 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on November 19, 2008, 11:47:08 AM
Cecil was the master jet base and the Navy looked at bringing the jets back during the last round of the BRAC. We had massive debates here during that period. Imo, it was always a stretch to claim the city would have the ability to see more economic success at some point in the distance future than opening the master jet base back up. Our leaders can't even get a courthouse out of the ground or Friendship Fountain fixed. Its all done now and we must move on but sometimes I sit back and think about how different our local economy would be if we had an influx of 30,000 new residents.
Thanks for the response. I really don't understand what our city leaders are thinking most of the time. I really wish they were more driven. There's so much possibility in this city, but sometimes I feel the city leadership doesn't see it. With the only exception being the port, which has grown tremendesly since Peyton took office.
Wasn't the jet base issue put up for a public vote? Was that not the decision of the majority rather than the leaders in office? I'm seriously asking cause im not sure, but that's what I seem to recall.
It was voted by citizens of Duval County. Clay residents had no say.
All of the construction that was going on was created when Cecil was no longer a jet base and the restrictions around building were lowered due to the fact the a jet base it no longer was.
Had the crash zones never been lowered/removed after the base shut down, no one would have a legal leg to stand on.
As it was, I was one who pushed people to vote no, as my house in Clay County (built in 2003, long after Cecil closed) was in an area in which I would have had to retro my house with additional sound insulation to allow my son to sleep at night. (to the tune of 50K plus)
Its the same issue that happened in Arlington with allowing houses to be built to close to Craig to allow expansion.
Yes, it was put up to a vote and the majority voted against bringing the Navy back. It, like the Arlington situation is a perfect example of the effects of poor planning at a public level. By the way, westside residents really put a nice grassroots campaign together for the right to live next to a quiet airport.
http://www.youtube.com/v/BOyfLtkx6vA
Thanks for the video Lunican. Wonder what the vote would be if it were today. What with us getting a new Carrier and with the economic crisis.
Thanks for the vid, Lunican. So it was our leaders' faults, haha!! I don't like Delaney anymore...j/k
am I the only one who felt like I was watching one of SNL's fake commercials? I was just waiting for something ridiculous to happen and the crowd to start laughing.
Thought I would add this to this string, Posted on another and thought I would add it to this one. Keep in mind when we say Cecil was a master jet base that only included the Light attack wing, so we were looking at F-18 a/b c/d, prior to that the A-7'. The A-6 and f-14 heavys Have always been in Oceana
"I have a home on the westside and I bought my a father in law a home closer to cecil than I am, so I guess I have a vested interest. The closing of Cecil Field was a MAJOR error by the DOD, prior to closing the field they did have empty hangars, but there was almost no encrochment by development. In fact I can remember some very vigourous arguments between the city council and groups that wanted to build in the crash zones. The city council was always supportive of the Navy. But by the time the vote came around that had all changed. The base had been dismantled, there was nothing there other than the hangars, which by the way had been upgraded by private money. All the supporting structure had been destroyed, the enlisted housing was demolished, no commisary, no hospital. My objection was since we had a major dod drawdown, there had to be a better base to locate too. Payton improper proposal as to how much development had grown around cecil implied a intent to decieve, that helped the westside to organize an effective group to oppose the reopening. There will be no UPS or FEDEX hub at cecil, but there could be an effective overhaul refit and manufacture facility there that will draw no objections to the locals. We aren't talking about 14 squadorns of f-18e/f's operating 18 hours a day. Anyone that worked at the old Cecil field can attest how noisy 7 to 9 in the morning was"
And in other news, the lawsuits should soon start up.
www.wokv.com
QuoteSmiling from ear to ear Monday morning, Senator Bill Nelson proclaimed the decision to send a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier to Mayport "a done deal." But now Virginia's highest ranking lawmakers are blasting the decision and vowing to fight the Navy recommendation.
"We have deep concerns...with the announced preference to create a second East Coast homeport for a nuclear powered carrier in Mayport, Fla," Senators Jim Webb (D) and John Warner (R) said in a joint-statement this week. "This decision is not suported by economic logic or strategic necessity."
The statement cites the $500 billion pricetag associated with moving a nuclear-powered carrier to the First Coast. Most of that covers ambitious construction projects, including dredging of the harbor and major wharf upgrades to support such a massive warship.
"The Navy should first address existing budget shortfalls for its people, shipbuilding, aircraft and installations," the statement says.
Navy brass say homeporting one aircraft carrier to Mayport makes strategic sense. They say keeping the entire Atlantic fleet in one location is risky, given the consequences that played out during the Pear Harbor attack on December 7, 1941.
Norfolk city leaders say losing an aircraft carrier will cost the community 5,000 jobs and as much as a billion dollars a year to the local economy.
Senators Warner and Webb will join Governor Tim Kaine today to fire the first shots in what could be a lengthy fight to keep all the Navy's Atlantic-based aircraft carriers in Norfolk. The lawmakers are calling for Navy Secretary Donald Winter to hold off on a decision until his successor takes office next year.
"It would be disrespectful not to give the next administration, taking office in 2009, an opportunity to voice it's views," Webb said on his Senate website.
We have way more leg to stand on with Mayport and Carriers (all eggs in one basket argument).
Imaging the lengthy lawsuits from a jet base relocation.
They would be lengthy but it would be hard to make a case that they would not be solved before Cecil becomes the mecca of private sector economic prosperity that was touted during the Cecil Field debates. That dream is never going to happen if the city continues to allow residential development closer to Cecil's runways and industrial uses.
Btw, how is Norfolk losing an aircraft carrier? The thing is not in service yet is it?
This is great news,I should get some capital and open strip bar in Mayport in next 3 years.
Virginia Senators say not so fast....
http://jacksonville.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2008/11/17/daily27.html
It's funny to see Republicans playing politics from the housing catastrophy that was caused by liberal policies (Community Reinvestment Act). Let's kick them all out of office and start over.
Webb is a democrat... Yeah... we would all be better off thinking exactly like you...
Being a 20 year U. S. Navy Veteran, it would probably be both Navy and Civilian jobs, however, it would be about 90% plus Navy and 10% civilian (give or take 2 or 3 percent). There are some civilians assigned to the ship during deployments, and others are assigned to the ship but live in the surrounding area(s).
Heights Unknown
QuoteProLogis backs out of Jacksonville's Cecil Commerce Center
JACKSONVILLE â€" Bad news for the city’s plans to develop Cecil Commerce Center: The world’s largest developer, owner and manager of distribution warehouses won’t respond when the city puts out requests next month to develop the sprawling Westside property.
ProLogis, which is halting all of its new development, will also likely take back its request for qualifications that it submitted to the Jacksonville Aviation Authority to develop Cecil Field, said the company’s spokeswoman Mo Sheahan.
She said the company would likely continue to discuss development with the city and the authority, but it had no plans to start construction in the “foreseeable future.â€
full article: http://jacksonville.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2008/11/24/story1.html
Yikes. Bad news for Cecil Field.
Please tell me that the city has sent someone to D.C. to counter VA's push to keep the carrier in Norfolk.
It also wouldn't hurt to send an advance team to Norfolk to "sell the city" and help those who would be relocated here, especially civilian contractors who have less relocation support than military personnel. Does anyone know what the carrier will bring in terms of relocation and local hires?
I'm beginning to agree with Virgina's leaders. The cost to make Mayport nuclear is very expensive for just one carrier. I propose they move TWO to cut the cost down in half and further disperse the fleet.
Great idea Lake.
:)
Quote from: thelakelander on November 21, 2008, 07:03:15 PM
I'm beginning to agree with Virgina's leaders. The cost to make Mayport nuclear is very expensive for just one carrier. I propose they move TWO to cut the cost down in half and further disperse the fleet.
You're right. Not even in a tongue-in-cheek way. If they truly plan to argue the fiscal irresponsibility factor, that should be our response. The plan would be strategically and fiscally sound.
Forget Mayport and Jacksonville and Virginia for a moment. No matter where they homeport the new carrier, it is unwise to have all East Coast carriers in one port. The VA politicians need to remember that the nation's defense is at stake here too.
I agree also with Lake; there were always two carriers at Mayport. Would be more cost effective with more cost incentives and pluses for the surrounding area as well.
Cecil Field was a Master Jet base when the attack squadrons were based there.
Heights Unknown
Already assigned and in place. It doesn't mean that the escorts and supply ships will be from Mayport; believe it or not some will come out of Norfolk.
Heights Unknown
In my opinion, I think they should go ahead and assign an already commissioned ship and the "Bush" when it comes on line.
Heights Unknown
No Master Jet Bases in Florida that I know of; when Cecil left, that was basically the end.
Heights Unknown
Quote from: heights unknown on November 22, 2008, 09:15:07 AM
No Master Jet Bases in Florida that I know of; when Cecil left, that was basically the end.
Heights Unknown
Tyndall AFB is one, but I'm sure that is it. I'm not too sure about Eglin AFB, outside the fact it is frecking huge. NAS Pensacola, all they really got is the Blue Angels, besides Navy schools.
Screw the state of VA!!__Yall have already taken away our beloved Cecil, so now it's time to "ante up" wit' that damn nuclear aircraft carrier from Norfolk!(mind you that Norfolk currently have FOUR nuclear aircraft carriers already). Payback is a BIOTCH aint it? The state of VA sucks; I got a ticket there recently (driving back from NYC) because I used a radar detector; I STILL gonna pay it. So here you go Virginia, (middle finger extended) BYTE ME VA!!!!!!!!
Quote from: I-10east on November 22, 2008, 11:20:55 AM
Screw the state of VA!!__Yall have already taken away our beloved Cecil, so now it's time to "ante up" wit' that damn nuclear aircraft carrier from Norfolk!(mind you that Norfolk currently have FOUR nuclear aircraft carriers already). Payback is a BIOTCH aint it? The state of VA sucks; I got a ticket there recently (driving back from NYC) because I used a radar detector; I STILL gonna pay it. So here you go Virginia, (middle finger extended) BYTE ME VA!!!!!!!!
Raise your hand if you have any idea of what this post means
Quote from: heights unknown on November 22, 2008, 09:15:07 AM
No Master Jet Bases in Florida that I know of; when Cecil left, that was basically the end.
Heights Unknown
I worked with the Navy for years and my father was an old wwii navy vet. I hate this naming of carriers after ex presidents. I want a new Saratoga, a new Forrestal, Bunker Hill, Independence
Quote from: civil42806 on November 22, 2008, 11:49:05 AM
Raise your hand if you have any idea of what this post means
Hey, it's not brain surgery. Self explanatory. I "put down" the state of Virginia, because Cecil Field moved to the Mid-Atlantic(in VA or maybe MD if I'm not mistaken) NAS Oceania is the name now. NAS Norfolk has 4 nuke carriers; Mayport is trying to get one of them. I hope that is cleared up; I know that you probably had one of the "Friday night hangovers into Saturday" and all. :D
Quote from: I-10east on November 22, 2008, 12:02:23 PM
Quote from: civil42806 on November 22, 2008, 11:49:05 AM
Raise your hand if you have any idea of what this post means
Hey, it's not brain surgery. Self explanatory. I "put down" the state of Virginia, because Cecil Field moved to the Mid-Atlantic(in VA or maybe MD if I'm not mistaken) NAS Oceania is the name now. NAS Norfolk has 4 nuke carriers; Mayport is trying to get one of them. I hope that is cleared up; I know that you probably had one of the "Friday night hangovers into Saturday" and all. :D
Thanks for the input!
Quote from: civil42806 on November 22, 2008, 11:53:07 AM
Quote from: heights unknown on November 22, 2008, 09:15:07 AM
No Master Jet Bases in Florida that I know of; when Cecil left, that was basically the end.
Heights Unknown
I worked with the Navy for years and my father was an old wwii navy vet. I hate this naming of carriers after ex presidents. I want a new Saratoga, a new Forrestal, Bunker Hill, Independence
Agree. At least we still have the USS Enterprise for now. Its predecessor was the most decorated shop in WWII. For more on the Big E:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Enterprise_(CV-6)
Quote from: thelakelander on November 21, 2008, 07:03:15 PM
I'm beginning to agree with Virgina's leaders. The cost to make Mayport nuclear is very expensive for just one carrier. I propose they move TWO to cut the cost down in half and further disperse the fleet.
I believe the Charlie Pier can support two carriers. Im sure it would be tight, and there would have to be some garages built (almost no parking as it is) but I think its worth the investment :-)
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=30.39742,-81.410086&spn=0.013011,0.019312&t=h&z=16
http://jacksonville.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2008/11/24/daily8.html
I was on the Kitty Hawk and Independence, so I too prefer the old school names... But now that we've jumped that line, how about a USS Stonewall Jackson? Even Andy Jackson would do here in "Old Hickory's Town". (PSST... I kind of like STONEWALL best). And while we are on the subject, what the hell is up with State names for Submarines? We were on a roll with fish... Darter, Dace, etc... Now the new Navy has gone and screwed it all up. The day they name one of those "BOATS", Arizona, or for Dad's beloved UTAH, I'm tossing out my anchor in Colombia!
The whole damn Atlantic Fleet is in No-F**K VA. (yo squids, devil dogs... it's okay to laugh). We got the HQ of the new 4TH Fleet, which will cover Fidel's bathtub - to Frost Bite Antarctica (which has BRT by the way).
What good is any fleet without the ability to take the war to a distant shore? Oh damn, now some bleeding heart is going to cry about American bombs in some God forsaken desert. Tell you what, you stay home with our new "fearless leader" and I'll spring for the next load. Since I'm now in a full blown SOUTHERN COMFORT RANT... HELLS BELLS people, Don't blame me. I voted Socialist!
Randy Newman, expressed my views in his JAZZ song, Quote"POLITICAL SCIENCE".
No one likes us-I don't know why
We may not be perfect, but heaven knows we try
But all around, even our old friends put us down
Let's drop the big one and see what happens
We give them money-but are they grateful?
No, they're spiteful and they're hateful
They don't respect us-so let's surprise them
We'll drop the big one and pulverize them
Asia's crowded and Europe's too old
Africa is far too hot
And Canada's too cold
And South America stole our name
Let's drop the big one
There'll be no one left to blame us
We'll save Australia
Don't wanna hurt no kangaroo
We'll build an All American amusement park there
They got surfin', too
Boom goes London and boom Paris
More room for you and more room for me
And every city the whole world round
Will just be another American town
Oh, how peaceful it will be
We'll set everybody free
You'll wear a Japanese kimono
And there'll be Italian shoes for me
They all hate us anyhow
So let's drop the big one now
Let's drop the big one now
Before you crazies out there go into a Humboldt Feeding Frenzy, remember I can say this... I'm a multi-national... HEE HEE! VIVA COLOMBIA! VIVA! TE AMO COLOMBIA!
HIC! OCKLAWAHAAAAAAaaaaa"The damned red flags of the rebellion thicken and flaunt, and one is waving over the guns of the dead Cushing." (Federal Leut. Describing Pickett's Charge) DEO VINDICE Y'ALL!
I'm having too much fun ranting... so here is some trivia for you old salts?
Q. When were the last USN pilots shot down over Japanese waters?
A.
4th June 1996
16:15h
USN A-6E Intruder, from (my brother-in-laws old squadron from NAS JAX) VA-115 operating from USS Independence was Hit by AAA from Japanese Self Defence Force, guided missile destroyer, JDS Yugiri, while acting as target tow
Lt. Cdr. William Royster ejected
WSO Lt. Keith Douglas ejected
Bet you thought they were our friends? Ha Ha!
"Solly Chalie Japan Sailor all nearsighted - can't hit target".
OCKLAWAHA
Who else can I insult?
Quote from: heights unknown on November 22, 2008, 09:10:07 AM
Cecil Field was a Master Jet base when the attack squadrons were based there.
Heights Unknown
But it was the LIGHT attack squadron, No A-6's there strictly A-7's and the older F-18"s
http://www.jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-01-15/story/mayport_carrier_decision_made_official (http://www.jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-01-15/story/mayport_carrier_decision_made_official)
Mayport carrier decision made officialQuoteThe Navy has signed the official Record of Decision stating it will homeport a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier at Mayport Naval Station.
QuotePreparing Mayport to handle a nuclear carrier is expected to cost upwards of $500 million but will create thousands of jobs as the Navy works to upgrade its wharf, dredge the river, build new facilities and improve roads. Getting the money to do that will be a big hurdle, but one that must be overcome for the national security, Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Florida, said Wednesday.
QuoteThe work wouldn’t be done until around 2014, the Navy estimates, and a carrier will not be homeported at Mayport until the work is done.
Already, though, some are fighting to have the ship come a bit sooner, arguing that there’s no reason to wait.
“I think we have to move faster than that,†said Atlantic Beach Mayor John Meserve, who had been commanding officer of the base. “I think it’s up to our elected officials to push that.â€
Until 2014? A lot can happen between now and then the way things are going in the world. Recommend they press on with the project but don't dwaddle or linger on it; remember, most of the world is predicting the U.S. will collapse or breakup.
Heights Unknown
The difference is that A-6's are all weather/night attack aircraft, can attack anytime, anywhere. They are old and obsolete now though still in service. I think the A6 squadrons were based out of Oceana. So Cecil was a Master Jet Base for the normal Light Attack Squadrons (A7, then A-18 and S3 squadrons).
Heights Unknown
I wonder what kind of true impact will be felt as the overall fleet numbers are reduced due to the decomissioning of quite a few boats. The news mentioned that upwards of 1,600 personnel would be lost.
Anyone have anymore info?