Hey everyone. I was just thinking about this the other day.
Wish MOSH closing, we lost our Science Museum. There is supposed to be another one coming, but we still are in the dark about when and if it's actually going to happen as promised. If you look at our Major attractions, it's really just the Zoo. The Beaches function as an attraction, but not because they're world class, but because they are less crowded. Adventure Landing just closed and the only Water Park in Northeast Florida is closed. The Arboretum has awesome plans but feels like it's a decade away from truly living up to its full potential. I think as it stands...we really need:
- MOSH to happen at a World class level
- Continued large scale investments in the Zoo
- An additional large museum of some kind (Military History?)
- A true Water Park destination on the scale of something at least like the Busch Gardens Waterpark.
- Indoor or outdoor Mini Golf (we just lost that too basically) that is aspirational in some way
- Some kind of publicly accessible observation tower or top floor attraction.
There is just such a lack in these things. I wish we could use local option gas tax after the Emerald Trail is finished to finance and incentivize attractions specifically.
MOSH getting going is mandatory imo. As far as museums, I do believe we need at least 2 - At least 1 in Lavilla/North Core area. It's out there on the border, but it's success can attract other business in that area too promote a walkable neighborhood. The biggest attraction downtown Jacksonville needs is an aquarium hands down. This goes back decades, residence have been asking for it. It's been dangled, but like most, it fell through and never progressed more than a rendering. Did some research when Atlanta was doing work on their aquarium, and ended up reading about Charleston's aquarium, which is a bit older in a not so busy city, but the visitor numbers annually is very promising if it were in Jacksonville. Huge win for downtown if it were near the MOSH and entertainment district. We do need a real/true water park as well, either near the new fairgrounds or airport.
We recently got into the cruise business. Growing up in a strong cruise port island that economy is based on tourism; that doesn't do the embark or debark, I wonder how impactful a terminal in downtown Jax would benefit it? We don't have mega ships that come to this area, but it is doable to have ships downtown considering the Super Bowl. A dedicated Royal Caribbean port would be nice next to the new fire house opposite side of Memorial Park. RC are in the process of building a new HQ in Miami. Tampa has a terminal downtown as well.
Quote from: MakeDTjaxGre@tAgain on February 16, 2026, 05:54:51 PM
MOSH getting going is mandatory imo. As far as museums, I do believe we need at least 2 - At least 1 in Lavilla/North Core area. It's out there on the border, but it's success can attract other business in that area too promote a walkable neighborhood.
There's a project to revamp the Ritz Theatre & Museum that's currently in the planning stages. There's potential there to take an existing facility and upgrade it into something around the region's Black history and culture that would be special for Jacksonville. It is key to the community's desire to bring back a 1980s vision for a Ritz Theatre District along Davis Street. That vision was dashed in the 1990s when they city tore down all the buildings on Davis.
There's also a 2-story baseball museum and interactive children's playground planned at J.P. Small Field in Durkeeville. That project is tentatively planned to break ground this summer and be completed in October 2027. We're currently working with surrounding commercial property owners and businesses to establish a little mixd-use walkable commercial district centered around the intersection of 8th and Myrtle.
QuoteWe recently got into the cruise business. Growing up in a strong cruise port island that economy is based on tourism; that doesn't do the embark or debark, I wonder how impactful a terminal in downtown Jax would benefit it? We don't have mega ships that come to this area, but it is doable to have ships downtown considering the Super Bowl. A dedicated Royal Caribbean port would be nice next to the new fire house opposite side of Memorial Park. RC are in the process of building a new HQ in Miami. Tampa has a terminal downtown as well.
There are no bridges restricting ship's access to the port in Miami. Tampa has the Skyway but I believe the clearance is similar to the Dames Point. Unfortunately for downtown Jax, modern cruise ships can't get under the Mathews and Hart Bridges. So a downtown terminal isn't feasible.
To expand on what thelakelander posted while I was looking up and typing:
The problem with ocean-going cruise ships coming downtown is the height of the Mathews and Hart Bridges. The Mathews has 146 feet of clearance, and the Hart has 141 feet. One of the cruise ships coming to Jacksonville has to time its passage under the Dames Point Bridge (175 feet) to catch the right tides.
Smaller cruise ships can probably pass under those bridges.. For example, some American Cruise Lines ships do occasionally call downtown. These ships mostly operate along the Intracoastal Waterway or in coastal waters.
https://www.americancruiselines.com/
People are overlooking our biggest attractions that cost us nothing:
- Beaches - growing every day in stature as they continue to gain a national following. Plus, unlike Jax, the beaches communities have done a great job of building out their commercial areas and investing smartly in their public places.
- St. Johns River - way underappreciated by locals. Failure to promote use of the waterway is a loss for Downtown and all of Duval. Lack of interactive public access and turning over publicly owned riverfront properties to developers is killing this missed opportunity for the next 50 to 100 years.
- Timucuan Preserve - also way underappreciated. There should be ecotours leaving from Downtown that bring this remote area closer to tourists and locals, alike.
- Our history - another underappreciated asset. We continue to destroy vestiges of it and do little to highlight it. Most locals don't have a clue about our past so how can we expect visitors to. MOSH is more focused on the young. We need a more singular museum: The Jacksonville History Museum. I have been to tiny towns that have such museums that do amazing jobs documenting 100 to 200 years of history with just small donations and volunteers.
All of the above just piles on the lack of coherent visioning/long term planning and imagination in our City leadership and community. Some small progress in recent years, but we are decades behind where we should be, and, at the rate we are going, we will continue to be behind for decades to come, short of a "meteor strike " event in our leadership happening.
^I would have loved for them to build a new Science museum on the Northbank and repurpose the existing building as a history museum. Unfortunately, it looks like they are struggling to get a single museum project done.
The Jacksonville History Center is working on a very aspirational (but quite small) Museum. I think it will be aspirational despite its smaller size. We need lots of those little things, and a few bigger things.
The Aquariums in Chattanooga seem like a doable option too.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on February 16, 2026, 08:51:47 PM
People are overlooking our biggest attractions that cost us nothing:
- St. Johns River - way underappreciated by locals. Failure to promote use of the waterway is a loss for Downtown and all of Duval. Lack of interactive public access and turning over publicly owned riverfront properties to developers is killing this missed opportunity for the next 50 to 100 years.
The complete absence of riverfront activities is something that shocks and surprises friends and acquaintances who find themselves in Jax. It is wild how a city can have this giant river flowing thru the middle of it but totally fail to capitalize on it. I guess it's hard to keep riverfront businesses and activities open if there's no demand for them.
There were several riverfront restaurants operating just fine in the Landing. We got rid of them and tore the place down. I say that to say...we at least know there's a market for riverfront dining in downtown.
Quote from: thelakelander on February 17, 2026, 03:38:28 PMThere were several riverfront restaurants operating just fine in the Landing. We got rid of them and tore the place down. I say that to say...we at least know there's a market for riverfront dining in downtown.
I think that is why leading with the world class parks along the Riverfront is the best case scenario. I think Friendship Fountain and to a lesser extent Riverfront Plaza have shown that people still desire to go to public spaces if they are aspirational in some way.
I am very bullish about all these parks, particularly Shipyards West, which feels the most aspirational to me, despite it being located in a really weird spot in relation to elevated road ways.
The market is there. Its been there for the last +100 years. We just now have to pay to rebuild what we foolishly razed. That will take some time. We all should remember that downtown revitalization is a marathon and not a sprint. However, in our case, we've also made some bad moves over the years, that have hurt, hampered and setback the revitalization process. I feel we've turned the corner but it will take a while to get to where we all want to go.
With Adventure Landing now non-existent...it seems inevitable someone builds a water park eventually right? It's just too perfect of an opportunity.
Quote from: Jankelope on February 20, 2026, 12:03:33 PMWith Adventure Landing now non-existent...it seems inevitable someone builds a water park eventually right? It's just too perfect of an opportunity.
Hopefully not just a water park. But an amusement type water park on a larger scale -not surf parks or manmade lagoo parks. Asked chatgpt the following: What amusement theme park should Jacksonville consider courting
If Jacksonville, Florida (in the United States) were looking to court a major amusement or theme park brand, several strategic options stand out based on industry trends, park expansions, and market potential — but there are also some important market considerations to weigh. �
🎢 1. Mattel Adventure Park
One of the most promising new brands in the U.S. theme park space is Mattel Adventure Park.
• This is an upcoming themed indoor/outdoor amusement park based on beloved toy IP (e.g., Barbie, Hot Wheels).
• Locations are under construction in Glendale, Arizona and Bonner Springs, Kansas, with plans for additional parks.
• Given Jacksonville's regional draw and tourism market, it could be an attractive future site for Mattel's next parks. �
👉 Why this fits: New parks tied to strong intellectual property can attract families year-round, especially in a warm climate like Northeast Florida.
⸻
🎡 2. Cedar Fair / Six Flags Regional Expansion
Traditional large chains like Cedar Fair and Six Flags have long been leaders in big regional parks:
• Cedar Fair owns parks such as Cedar Point and Kings Island.
• Six Flags is undergoing portfolio reevaluation — closing or selling some underperforming parks but focusing on strong markets. �
👉 What this means for Jacksonville:
Rather than a brand-new park, these operators might prefer partnering on a regionally scaled park or entertainment complex (smaller than a Disney or Universal destination).
⸻
🪄 3. Immersive or Tech-Driven Theme Experiences
Rather than a traditional roller-coaster-heavy park, Jacksonville might attract themed or immersive entertainment formats, such as:
• Interactive AR/VR parks
• IP-driven indoor entertainment complexes
• Hybrid experiences blending dining, shows, and technology
These align with industry trends toward tech integration and immersive guest experiences. �
⸻
📍 Market Strengths & Challenges
Strengths for Jacksonville:
• Large metropolitan population and growing tourism draw.
• Proximity to both Florida and Georgia residents.
• More affordable land and development costs than Orlando.
Challenges:
• Jacksonville is within driving distance of major Florida theme parks (Orlando region), which already dominate large-scale theme park tourism. �
• A full-scale Disney / Universal style resort would face stiff competition unless uniquely branded.
⸻
The following table isn't formatted here currently, but there are 4 options below with the brand, make sense, likelihood of each(stars).
📌 Best Strategic Targets for Jacksonville to Court Park / Brand
Why It Makes Sense
Likelihood
Mattel Adventure Park
New IP-driven concept expanding nationally
⭐⭐⭐⭐
Cedar Fair-style regional park
Proven operator of destination parks
⭐⭐⭐
Six Flags (smaller format)
Could appeal if tied to strong local attendance
⭐⭐
Immersive / tech entertainment complex
Future-focused, less expensive than a mega park
⭐⭐⭐⭐
After moving to Gainesville, I have noticed that Jax has a handful of draws that my coworkers will travel for. One is restaurants and urban neighborhood like San Marco and Riverside. I had a coworker just make the ride for a birthday dinner at Orsay last night for instance.
The second is concerts. Venues like Daily's place, the Arena, and Florida Theater are great regional draws because they can get acts that some of the smaller regional cities can't. Sports would be another draw for people in that same vein of events.
You might be able to argue shopping as another draw, but honestly I think people here would be more likely to go to Orlando than SJTC at the moment.
Overall, Jax has built an unfavorable reputation here. I'd characterize the perception as suburban hell, and the best counter to that would be to lean into its unique character and natural features. Right now, there's not much of an identity in the minds of outsiders.
Those UF kids are definitely hitting the JAX IKEA and utilizing JIA 😍.
With UF building a footprint near the Prime Osborn, it's too bad there's not a good rail option or bus/shuttle service between Gainesville and Jax to make that trip more convenient.
^An express bus between the JRTC/Union Terminal and UF could be possible. Although much of its route is BRT on an expressway corridor, that's how Boulder is connected to Denver's Union Station:
https://www.rtd-denver.com/routes-services/other-services/flatiron-flyer
I would personally love to see a smaller scale, 40-50 acre regional park that has some real heart and soul and ties in lots of love for the local scene. I had idea of a hub that had a large windmill as its icon. You could have 4 lands. Each land would have a roller coaster, an indoor dark ride, an educational theater show, and restaurants/retail. My ideas were below:
Ancient Florida - focused on Florida Panther, Jaguars (yes they were once in Florida!) and the natural environment of Florida. You could have a Jaguars coaster and Florida Panther dark ride.
JAX3000 - Futuristic, fully indoor land with science, technology, etc.
Mayport Sunrise - Themed to an old beachside amusement park attractions complete with a genuine wooden roller coaster, bumper cars, and a dark ride that is fully painted black & white until the final scene when it is in color. Corn dogs, deep fried Oreos, etc
Music Land - this land could have lots of homage to music, including an indoor music themed roller coaster.
Jankelope, thanks for a creative idea. We need more of those! Whether implemented or not, it gets the juices going to elevate our thinking and maybe execute on some of the propositions.
For sure, I agree on the 40 to 50(+++) acre park and have said so on numerous other threads here. As our population grows and we wish to host bigger events, accordingly, or even another Super Bowl, we need a location to host 100,000 to several hundred thousand people. Nothing on the drawing boards along the river currently indicates that ability.
Plus, a larger park could host soccer, pickleball, basketball, tennis, volleyball, mini-football field, full blown dog park, gardens, etc. that would be amenity incentives for downtown living and for tourists. Every great city has this or wishes it did. We are squandering our chance to do so and paying developers off to take this opportunity away. Crazy! In decades to come, the regrets will pour in.
To what extent does something like the 55-acre Surf Park being built out by eTown not satisfy some of these goals?
Quote from: marcuscnelson on March 26, 2026, 03:14:32 PMTo what extent does something like the 55-acre Surf Park being built out by eTown not satisfy some of these goals?
I understand it is a privately owned "lagoon" surrounded by hotels/condos/apartments. And the surfing will be for a fee. Not downtown, not designed to host events for 100,000 or anything close to that and not a park in the traditional sense. Apples and oranges to what I was commenting on. Maybe it lines up with Jankelope's vision. Will let him decide on that 8) .
Quote from: Jankelope on March 25, 2026, 10:33:09 AMI would personally love to see a smaller scale, 40-50 acre regional park that has some real heart and soul and ties in lots of love for the local scene. I had idea of a hub that had a large windmill as its icon. You could have 4 lands. Each land would have a roller coaster, an indoor dark ride, an educational theater show, and restaurants/retail. My ideas were below:
Ancient Florida - focused on Florida Panther, Jaguars (yes they were once in Florida!) and the natural environment of Florida. You could have a Jaguars coaster and Florida Panther dark ride.
JAX3000 - Futuristic, fully indoor land with science, technology, etc.
Mayport Sunrise - Themed to an old beachside amusement park attractions complete with a genuine wooden roller coaster, bumper cars, and a dark ride that is fully painted black & white until the final scene when it is in color. Corn dogs, deep fried Oreos, etc
Music Land - this land could have lots of homage to music, including an indoor music themed roller coaster.
No comment on the specific ideas mentioned...but imo, a signature urban park Downtown is one of the biggest things the City is lacking. If Jax really wants to be a great city, imo it should make major investment's into Springfield's Chain of Parks. This would make everything east of 95, north of Union, South of 8th, and West of the park a highly desirable place to live. You have a great opportunity to add a ton of density in this pocket. It would ultimately connect Gateway/Downtown Core to UF Health, and would also make Springfield an even more desirable place to live.
Below is a post I made about how the City can expand the existing park network in Springfield from it's current state to a park north of 50 acres in another thread last year.
"There is a seemingly feasible long term solution to the size limitations of the Springfield Parks and the land is all owned by the Jacksonville Housing Authority. Centennial Townhomes West is owned and operated by the JHA. It's 7.69 acres and is immediately next to Klutho Park. The complex was built in 1977 and has likely reached the end of it's life. Then to the west of that you have Blodgett Villas, which is on 17.73 acres and is also owned by the JHA. The complex was built in the early 90's and presumably still has some life left. Between both of those complexes is the JHA HQ which is 9.56 acres. In total, this is 34.98 acres. Nearly equal to the rest of the chain of parks. But that's not it. South of Blodgett is a nice 5.5 acre lake/retention pond that is part of the state complex. I'm sure COJ could agree to take on maintenance from the state if it was included in the park, so you really could add 40 acres to the park.
The City could start planning for the future and expand the park in phases. Centennial more immediately and Blodgett in the future. This would not only expand the park, but provide the necessary width to add more recreational amenities to the park. If you add all this land and simply remove Broad and Jefferson between 6th and 1st, there would be
58 acres of connected parks space uninterrupted by roads.The City gets so much money yearly from the federal government for the CDBG program that it could likely fund a lot of this project that way. The city could also increase the maximum residential height and density on the edges of the park (away from the historic district) and make a killing off the increase of ad valorem taxes. To make this happen, COJ just has to find a new HQ for the JHA and rebuild affordable housing nearby to replace the two lost projects.
This is obviously putting the cart before the horse, as the first priority should actually upgrading the existing system. However, I think if there is a long term expansion plan and the opportunity to create a truly great park, it might make renovating the existing system a higher priority and more financially viable."
Two museums that have Jacksonville written all over them, that we need to have in Jax:
1. Black Freedmans' towns museum, covering the Freedmans' towns around the USA from 1865 - 1964 (LaVilla was one of them!), about the entrepreneurship that ultimately created today's Black American middle class; and
2. Southern Rock and Roll museum. Molly H, Allmans, 38 Special, Tom Petty & the H and there's one I'm missing, uh I forgot the name, those Van Zant boys from the westside, what were they called, they had that song Sweet Home Floribama or something...
Hey, anyone interested? I'll do what I can to help bring them to reality.
^We're working on redoing the Ritz. However, the theme will focus on the story of Black Excellence and Jax's Black community's national contributions (e.g. the Chitlin' Circuit, Great Migration, Civil Rights, HBCUs, Community Development, Foodways, Gullah Geechee, etc.). The new museum is expected to open in February 2027.
The Southern Rock museum is a great idea and feels like it could work in the context of Riverside, Cummer museum area? Maybe between Brooklyn and Riverside? Like behind all the new development in Brooklyn? Otherwise you could just build it into an underutilized block of downtown. As long as the scope wasn't too crazy that could actually be a regional draw that helps the identity of the city.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 04, 2026, 11:26:07 PM^We're working on redoing the Ritz. However, the theme will focus on the story of Black Excellence and Jax's Black community's national contributions (e.g. the Chitlin' Circuit, Great Migration, Civil Rights, HBCUs, Community Development, Foodways, Gullah Geechee, etc.). The new museum is expected to open in February 2027.
Why not have two museums? One for Jax, one for the nation? The stories you've told of Black American entrepreneurs who took lemons and made lemonade using their brains and grit are irresistible. I think kids before graduating high school should know the meaning of names like Bronzeville, Deep Ellum, Sweet Auburn, Greenwood, Overtown, Parramore, Old Fourth Ward, and of course Harlem and LaVilla among others. A museum dedicated to the stories of the Black businessmen in these and other Freedmen's towns would be a huge draw. So much of our culture comes from what they achieved.
As for Jankelope's comments regarding the southern rock museum, right on. A big draw as well. Put it between the Allman Brothers' house in Riverside and the Van Zant house near Hyde Park.
Okay folks, where are the shovels?? Let's get started.
I just logged off and went into the kitchen to get some food, when I had the thought: let's see if Shad Khan would be interested in these two museums. Then I realized that if he underwrote them he'd want them over on the east side near the stadium. Then I realized: wait a minute! Maybe if these museums are great draws, they could be the missing link in his Lot J development plans! The flow-through of people visiting them would help make the commercial development he envisions for Lot J pencil out better. Hmmm.
Quote from: Jankelope on May 05, 2026, 10:47:11 AMThe Southern Rock museum is a great idea and feels like it could work in the context of Riverside, Cummer museum area? Maybe between Brooklyn and Riverside? Like behind all the new development in Brooklyn? Otherwise you could just build it into an underutilized block of downtown. As long as the scope wasn't too crazy that could actually be a regional draw that helps the identity of the city.
This group seems to be looking for a location. Jax would a great fit.
https://southernrockhalloffame.org/
Quote from: Aristocles on May 05, 2026, 11:26:27 AMQuote from: thelakelander on May 04, 2026, 11:26:07 PM^We're working on redoing the Ritz. However, the theme will focus on the story of Black Excellence and Jax's Black community's national contributions (e.g. the Chitlin' Circuit, Great Migration, Civil Rights, HBCUs, Community Development, Foodways, Gullah Geechee, etc.). The new museum is expected to open in February 2027.
Why not have two museums? One for Jax, one for the nation? The stories you've told of Black American entrepreneurs who took lemons and made lemonade using their brains and grit are irresistible. I think kids before graduating high school should know the meaning of names like Bronzeville, Deep Ellum, Sweet Auburn, Greenwood, Overtown, Parramore, Old Fourth Ward, and of course Harlem and LaVilla among others. A museum dedicated to the stories of the Black businessmen in these and other Freedmen's towns would be a huge draw. So much of our culture comes from what they achieved.
Museum's cost money, which is why many groups that want them fail to figure out or secure finances that will subsidize their long term operation. To me, tearing down the old MOSH building was pretty shortsighted, because it could have possibly been adaptively reused into another cultural destination, at an expense that's significantly cheaper than building new from the ground up. Especially since the building and land were already owned by the city, possibly eliminating much of the costs associated with getting a new project off the ground.
Anyway, in the case of the Ritz, we already have an asset in operation. Its underutilized but structurally in good shape and the exact same size as the new Greenwood Rising Museum in Tulsa's Black Wall Street. So we don't need to spend millions on a new structure. We can instead focus on maximizing its interior offerings and how it is promoted and marketed to the outside world.
Since Black Jacksonville is where resistance to Jim Crow led to famed local poems like Lift Ev'ry Voice and Sing and Bound for the Promised Land going viral and sending millions of southerners to the North, Midwest and West, we can't tell Black Jax's story without also talking about the Great Migration. We have a national story to tell and share that could pull people to town who want to learn about Black excellence as opposed to the glut of places focused on Black tragedy. While they aren't technically freedmen's towns, Great Migration communities like Bronzeville, Harlem, Black Bottom, etc. came to life in cities like Chicago, NYC and Detroit because of what took place in Jax. So there will definitely be a space in the new Ritz highlighting these connections and contributions, as well as those linked to the multitude of Gullah Geechee communities and other Black communities linked to Jaxson's that literally funded their existence at a time when White banks would not lend money to Black communities, institutions, families and businesses.
QuoteAs for Jankelope's comments regarding the southern rock museum, right on. A big draw as well. Put it between the Allman Brothers' house in Riverside and the Van Zant house near Hyde Park.
Okay folks, where are the shovels?? Let's get started.
Years ago, back in our Metro Jacksonville days (maybe around 2004-2006), there was talk about doing a Southern Rock Museum downtown. Like the talk about an aquarium and even MOSH 2.0 now, they struggle to get off the ground without a sugar daddy or mama donating tens to hundreds of millions to get them off the ground. If we can figure out the proforma, things will easily come together.
Quote from: Aristocles on May 05, 2026, 11:44:24 AMI just logged off and went into the kitchen to get some food, when I had the thought: let's see if Shad Khan would be interested in these two museums. Then I realized that if he underwrote them he'd want them over on the east side near the stadium. Then I realized: wait a minute! Maybe if these museums are great draws, they could be the missing link in his Lot J development plans! The flow-through of people visiting them would help make the commercial development he envisions for Lot J pencil out better. Hmmm.
Let's assume Shad Khan does not want to underwrite either. What would be a potential game plan for funding that does not require spending someone else's money to get it going?
Might be a wildly unpopular opinion, but I don't think a Southern Rock museum is a particularly good idea. In theory, yes. In execution, no. It's a one-time visit for locals, a questionable tourist draw giving the rapidly aging audience that Southern Rock history appeals to (45-75, I'd guess), and an ethical gray area in terms of some of the iconography and "Southern Pride" mentality that I wouldn't want to closely associate with as a city. From a financial perspective, there just isn't the mainstream interest in Southern Rock like there is with the Rock N' Roll Hall of Fame or Country Music Hall of Fame. I think it'd have a great first year, and then flatline.
To me, it would make more sense as exhibit space in the proposed Hard Rock Hotel (assuming it happens one day), or a Southern Rock Hall of Fame type of installation within a large live music & entertainment venue.
^Ken, you've provided a potential financial solution for "museums" of the future. Incorporating nonrevenue producing items like museum exhibits into spaces that generate revenue, that may also share a similar cultural or historical theme.
How is The Big House Museum (https://thebighousemuseum.com/), the Allman Brothers Band museum, in Macon?
Never been to the Big House museum but it gets very good reviews. Also as Lakelander said about revenue generation it has a rental space for income.
I think these museums should not be paid for with tax revenue but by philanthropy from anyone interested. The recording industry, business groups, Black churches, whomever. As for me, I love stories like that of Robert Reed Church Sr. from Memphis. Known as the first Black American millionaire, he learned business principles working on Mississippi River riverboats until he became valuable as a manager. Later, when Memphis suffered its malaria epidemics he bought valuable real estate at low prices and held on to the properties as their values increased when the epidemics subsided. With his wealth he funded lots of infrastructure and philanthropic ventures. I'm wondering if there is a place where people like him, Black geniuses who did the "firsts" - first Black-owned bank, auto dealership, insurance company, etc. - are honored. Also I think Great Migration Communities is a better title than Freedman's towns, which is more specific and limited.
If the Ritz Theatre is a go then let's see how it does. It sounds good.
Who is underwriting the financing of the new MOSH building? Is that a certainty or still just a possibility?
Just found out MOSH raised $95 million, public and private, for the new Northbank facility.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on May 05, 2026, 02:00:28 PMMight be a wildly unpopular opinion, but I don't think a Southern Rock museum is a particularly good idea. In theory, yes. In execution, no. It's a one-time visit for locals, a questionable tourist draw giving the rapidly aging audience that Southern Rock history appeals to (45-75, I'd guess), and an ethical gray area in terms of some of the iconography and "Southern Pride" mentality that I wouldn't want to closely associate with as a city. From a financial perspective, there just isn't the mainstream interest in Southern Rock like there is with the Rock N' Roll Hall of Fame or Country Music Hall of Fame. I think it'd have a great first year, and then flatline.
To me, it would make more sense as exhibit space in the proposed Hard Rock Hotel (assuming it happens one day), or a Southern Rock Hall of Fame type of installation within a large live music & entertainment venue.
Totally agree with this. Many (myself included) were so sad when Freebirds closed it's doors. I think you would need a hybrid of museum and music venue. It would be awesome to have a Freebirds 2.0 that also included the southern rock history aspect. It already has a recognizable name both locally and nationally. It would be perfect.
Quote from: Downtown Osprey on May 08, 2026, 10:23:12 AMQuote from: Ken_FSU on May 05, 2026, 02:00:28 PMMight be a wildly unpopular opinion, but I don't think a Southern Rock museum is a particularly good idea. In theory, yes. In execution, no. It's a one-time visit for locals, a questionable tourist draw giving the rapidly aging audience that Southern Rock history appeals to (45-75, I'd guess), and an ethical gray area in terms of some of the iconography and "Southern Pride" mentality that I wouldn't want to closely associate with as a city. From a financial perspective, there just isn't the mainstream interest in Southern Rock like there is with the Rock N' Roll Hall of Fame or Country Music Hall of Fame. I think it'd have a great first year, and then flatline.
To me, it would make more sense as exhibit space in the proposed Hard Rock Hotel (assuming it happens one day), or a Southern Rock Hall of Fame type of installation within a large live music & entertainment venue.
Totally agree with this. Many (myself included) were so sad when Freebirds closed it's doors. I think you would need a hybrid of museum and music venue. It would be awesome to have a Freebirds 2.0 that also included the southern rock history aspect. It already has a recognizable name both locally and nationally. It would be perfect.
A+++++ idea.
Love this, and I too deeply miss Freebirds.
Well, you know the story about how Led Zeppelin got its name? Robert Plant and Jimmy Page were standing in Keith Moon's driveway saying they were going to name their band The New Yardbirds. Moon said that name would fly as well as a lead zeppelin.
So, let's call the new combined venue/music museum The New Freebirds. ::)
As The Stylistics sang, let's put it all together...
Put The New Freebirds venuseum at Lot J. There you go.
If only the people who commented on the JAXSON forums were all "benevolent billionaires"
Okay so this one is a moonshot...
But what do you think about an attraction/hotel combo called "ICEWORLD" that has a 50,000 square foot "Thermal Core" that is 27 degrees year round. There is an attached hotel, and in the Thermal core there is also floor level retail for coffee/hot chocolate, winter clothing, etc. It snows every day, there's slides, frozen cave, events, field trips.
Basically a year round version of what Gaylord Palms does. I think you would have to get the scale and scope right for it to be sustainable, but I think there could be a market...
It is my craziest idea but it would be something only Jacksonville has.
Jax history of both music and Black culture, along with other aspects of Jax history, could be either incorporated into the new MOSH featuring a more sophisticated approach to Jax history than before, or, if not a good fit there, in a museum associated with the Jax History Center, where archives already exist to support museum documentation, etc. and could be further expanded to elevate the museum presentations.
I think combining niche museums into one larger museum would create more visitors to each niche by cross marketing than if they were standalones plus create operating efficiencies. To add others, maybe the Jax fire museum, Norman Studios, Ritz, Orleck, etc. could be brought under a single administrative umbrella for these same reasons. This approach would also broaden community support, increasing the chances of sustainable success for all of them.
I would offer, as an example, the Ringling Museum in Sarasota. It is an art museum, circus museum, historic home and elaborate gardens, plus high end restaurant, all rolled into a nearly full day experience. An unusual mix of interests yet it thrives in a way that I doubt any one element could do so on its own.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on May 21, 2026, 11:40:16 PMJax history of both music and Black culture, along with other aspects of Jax history, could be either incorporated into the new MOSH featuring a more sophisticated approach to Jax history than before, or, if not a good fit there, in a museum associated with the Jax History Center, where archives already exist to support museum documentation, etc. and could be further expanded to elevate the museum presentations.
The Jax History Center is developing its museum programming now, targeting the end of 2027 to open that piece. As of now, the sections featured will include Early History, Great Fire of 1901, Gateway City, River of Change, Arts & Entertainment, Sports, Neighborhoods & Consolidation, and Civil Rights. Technology/adaptability will be prioritized to ensure exhibits don't become stale, timely content can be highlighted, etc.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on May 21, 2026, 11:40:16 PMJax history of both music and Black culture, along with other aspects of Jax history, could be either incorporated into the new MOSH featuring a more sophisticated approach to Jax history than before, or, if not a good fit there, in a museum associated with the Jax History Center, where archives already exist to support museum documentation, etc. and could be further expanded to elevate the museum presentations.
I think combining niche museums into one larger museum would create more visitors to each niche by cross marketing than if they were standalones plus create operating efficiencies. To add others, maybe the Jax fire museum, Norman Studios, Ritz, Orleck, etc. could be brought under a single administrative umbrella for these same reasons. This approach would also broaden community support, increasing the chances of sustainable success for all of them.
I would offer, as an example, the Ringling Museum in Sarasota. It is an art museum, circus museum, historic home and elaborate gardens, plus high end restaurant, all rolled into a nearly full day experience. An unusual mix of interests yet it thrives in a way that I doubt any one element could do so on its own.
This is a very interesting economic and planning dilemma that I've witnessed as a consultant in many historically excluded communities across the country.
Economically, museums are generally money pits. On the other hand, cultural heritage can be a strong economic driver for neighborhood revitalization.
In the Sarasota example, the Ringling contributes very little, if any, economic impact on the nearby New Town neighborhood, which is Sararsota's version of Jax's LaVilla.
In Chicago's Bronzeville neighborhood, the Harold Washington Cultural Center is a major destination in that neighborhood. Like the Ritz, its a museum/live performing arts venue. In Harlem, the Schomburg Center for Research in Black Culture is a New York Public Library Branch that plays a similar role in that community.
People come to these destinations within the neighborhoods where the exact history was created and they intentionally spend money a shops and restaurants adjacent to them. While it may not benefit downtown, it does get the dollar recycling in the neighborhood before it leaves, creating jobs and new business opportunities birthing real neighborhood level economic revitalization. A side benefit his the cultural heritage becomes active as opposed to being an obituary of what was, in the form of a heritage marker or plaque.
When evaluated from that perspective, perhaps its fine to invest in the Ritz instead of taking LaVilla's story to MOSH to be controlled by a group who's should not be in charge of that story simply because its not theirs to tell.
In Durkeeville, the neighborhood does have a historic ballpark and structures directly linked to people like Hank Aaron. On the surface, it would seem to be an appropriate low hanging fruit for them to take advantage of their stadium and unique story to generate a rebirth of life on Myrtle instead of that story being shifted to the Sports & Entertainment District.
With that said, breaking down the silos, unified promotion and making our various attractions more complimentary seems like another low hanging fruit from a tourism perspective.
All in all, I find the various positions debated in different communities on this subject to be quite interesting.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 22, 2026, 10:22:41 AMQuote from: jaxlongtimer on May 21, 2026, 11:40:16 PMJax history of both music and Black culture, along with other aspects of Jax history, could be either incorporated into the new MOSH featuring a more sophisticated approach to Jax history than before, or, if not a good fit there, in a museum associated with the Jax History Center, where archives already exist to support museum documentation, etc. and could be further expanded to elevate the museum presentations.
I think combining niche museums into one larger museum would create more visitors to each niche by cross marketing than if they were standalones plus create operating efficiencies. To add others, maybe the Jax fire museum, Norman Studios, Ritz, Orleck, etc. could be brought under a single administrative umbrella for these same reasons. This approach would also broaden community support, increasing the chances of sustainable success for all of them.
I would offer, as an example, the Ringling Museum in Sarasota. It is an art museum, circus museum, historic home and elaborate gardens, plus high end restaurant, all rolled into a nearly full day experience. An unusual mix of interests yet it thrives in a way that I doubt any one element could do so on its own.
This is a very interesting economic and planning dilemma that I've witnessed as a consultant in many historically excluded communities across the country.
Economically, museums are generally money pits. On the other hand, cultural heritage can be a strong economic driver for neighborhood revitalization.
In the Sarasota example, the Ringling contributes very little, if any, economic impact on the nearby New Town neighborhood, which is Sararsota's version of Jax's LaVilla.
In Chicago's Bronzeville neighborhood, the Harold Washington Cultural Center is a major destination in that neighborhood. Like the Ritz, its a museum/live performing arts venue. In Harlem, the Schomburg Center for Research in Black Culture is a New York Public Library Branch that plays a similar role in that community.
People come to these destinations within the neighborhoods where the exact history was created and they intentionally spend money a shops and restaurants adjacent to them. While it may not benefit downtown, it does get the dollar recycling in the neighborhood before it leaves, creating jobs and new business opportunities birthing real neighborhood level economic revitalization. A side benefit his the cultural heritage becomes active as opposed to being an obituary of what was, in the form of a heritage marker or plaque.
When evaluated from that perspective, perhaps its fine to invest in the Ritz instead of taking LaVilla's story to MOSH to be controlled by a group who's should not be in charge of that story simply because its not theirs to tell.
In Durkeeville, the neighborhood does have a historic ballpark and structures directly linked to people like Hank Aaron. On the surface, it would seem to be an appropriate low hanging fruit for them to take advantage of their stadium and unique story to generate a rebirth of life on Myrtle instead of that story being shifted to the Sports & Entertainment District.
With that said, breaking down the silos, unified promotion and making our various attractions more complimentary seems like another low hanging fruit from a tourism perspective.
All in all, I find the various positions debated in different communities on this subject to be quite interesting.
To be clear, I have no issue with museums being physically scattered in the areas where the history they honor takes place. I was mostly suggesting that administrative, fund raising and marketing functions be shared under one entity to create both operating efficiencies (especially needed since many lose dollars as you note) and cross promotion. Many of these niche museums may take as little as an hour to less than a full day to enjoy, so combining them to make a full day of exploration to more fully justify a trip, especially for out of towners, could benefit all of them. For locals, cross pollination of history enriches all of us.
Even if the museums don't cooperate on the level jaxlongtimer suggests, they could coordinate for "JaxPass" (or a really clever name) tickets giving admission to multiple attractions. I've seen thee in other cities, why not here?
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on May 22, 2026, 11:28:39 PMQuote from: thelakelander on May 22, 2026, 10:22:41 AMQuote from: jaxlongtimer on May 21, 2026, 11:40:16 PMJax history of both music and Black culture, along with other aspects of Jax history, could be either incorporated into the new MOSH featuring a more sophisticated approach to Jax history than before, or, if not a good fit there, in a museum associated with the Jax History Center, where archives already exist to support museum documentation, etc. and could be further expanded to elevate the museum presentations.
I think combining niche museums into one larger museum would create more visitors to each niche by cross marketing than if they were standalones plus create operating efficiencies. To add others, maybe the Jax fire museum, Norman Studios, Ritz, Orleck, etc. could be brought under a single administrative umbrella for these same reasons. This approach would also broaden community support, increasing the chances of sustainable success for all of them.
I would offer, as an example, the Ringling Museum in Sarasota. It is an art museum, circus museum, historic home and elaborate gardens, plus high end restaurant, all rolled into a nearly full day experience. An unusual mix of interests yet it thrives in a way that I doubt any one element could do so on its own.
This is a very interesting economic and planning dilemma that I've witnessed as a consultant in many historically excluded communities across the country.
Economically, museums are generally money pits. On the other hand, cultural heritage can be a strong economic driver for neighborhood revitalization.
In the Sarasota example, the Ringling contributes very little, if any, economic impact on the nearby New Town neighborhood, which is Sararsota's version of Jax's LaVilla.
In Chicago's Bronzeville neighborhood, the Harold Washington Cultural Center is a major destination in that neighborhood. Like the Ritz, its a museum/live performing arts venue. In Harlem, the Schomburg Center for Research in Black Culture is a New York Public Library Branch that plays a similar role in that community.
People come to these destinations within the neighborhoods where the exact history was created and they intentionally spend money a shops and restaurants adjacent to them. While it may not benefit downtown, it does get the dollar recycling in the neighborhood before it leaves, creating jobs and new business opportunities birthing real neighborhood level economic revitalization. A side benefit his the cultural heritage becomes active as opposed to being an obituary of what was, in the form of a heritage marker or plaque.
When evaluated from that perspective, perhaps its fine to invest in the Ritz instead of taking LaVilla's story to MOSH to be controlled by a group who's should not be in charge of that story simply because its not theirs to tell.
In Durkeeville, the neighborhood does have a historic ballpark and structures directly linked to people like Hank Aaron. On the surface, it would seem to be an appropriate low hanging fruit for them to take advantage of their stadium and unique story to generate a rebirth of life on Myrtle instead of that story being shifted to the Sports & Entertainment District.
With that said, breaking down the silos, unified promotion and making our various attractions more complimentary seems like another low hanging fruit from a tourism perspective.
All in all, I find the various positions debated in different communities on this subject to be quite interesting.
To be clear, I have no issue with museums being physically scattered in the areas where the history they honor takes place. I was mostly suggesting that administrative, fund raising and marketing functions be shared under one entity to create both operating efficiencies (especially needed since many lose dollars as you note) and cross promotion. Many of these niche museums may take as little as an hour to less than a full day to enjoy, so combining them to make a full day of exploration to more fully justify a trip, especially for out of towners, could benefit all of them. For locals, cross pollination of history enriches all of us.
Non-profit consolidation and/or pooling of resources is a trending topic nationally. The Non-Profit Center of NEFL has been facilitating conversations locally.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on May 22, 2026, 11:28:39 PMTo be clear, I have no issue with museums being physically scattered in the areas where the history they honor takes place. I was mostly suggesting that administrative, fund raising and marketing functions be shared under one entity to create both operating efficiencies (especially needed since many lose dollars as you note) and cross promotion. Many of these niche museums may take as little as an hour to less than a full day to enjoy, so combining them to make a full day of exploration to more fully justify a trip, especially for out of towners, could benefit all of them. For locals, cross pollination of history enriches all of us.
In general, I agree. Even in this scenario, the conversation and debates extend into who's in control of the bank account/administrative functions. There's still a ton of distrust out there that needs to be worked through for things like this to work effectively. As I previously mentioned. I find it a pretty interesting discussion.