Metro Jacksonville

Some thoughts on Amtrak, our downtown station and Brightline possibilities:

Several factors could play into our hands IF Jacksonville were to get all of these players in the same room. While Brightline is struggling and at the same time focused on Orlando-Tampa, which will require a whole new Higher Speed Railroad, the Florida East Coast Railway mainline between Cocoa (the junction with the current BL route) and Jacksonville has room for many more trains. Trackage that is already in place and already capable of handling trains at 79-110 mph without massive modifications.

The missing players are not just Amtrak, Brightline, COJ and JTA. We should include New Smyrna Beach, Daytona, Palm Coast and St. Augustine and possible representatives from New York, Charlotte, Atlanta and everything in between in that huddle.

We shouldn't ask for nor do we probably need hourly trains, but a schedule of 4-8 BL trains JAX-COCOA-MIAMI, or JAX-COCOA-ORLANDO would go far to move our downtown terminal forward again. In all of those locations, or whichever BL would deem worthy, there is no shame in considering a temporary station and platform arrangement until such time as permanent facilities could be up and running, meanwhile we'd be building a ridership base.

Moving Amtrak into temporary platforms and station space downtown would be key to BL and Amtrak's success. By bringing these two carriers into downtown Jax. we automatically extend BL's ability to market New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington, Richmond and everything in between. It also allows Amtrak the ability to offer the Florida East Coast Beaches without the trouble of a whole new agreement with the FEC RY, something not done since the 1963. This opens the door to a through car agreement between the carriers where a section of Amtrak's Florida trains could be coupled onto BL's trains for the run south.

If the COJ would get serious about the downtown station beyond a building and platforms, we should lean heavily or dangle a huge incentive in front of Amtrak to entice them to extend the PALMETTO train, currently an all day, early AM until evening, NEW YORK-SAVANNAH train, to terminate in Jacksonville. By rail that's a 149-mile gap. That gap could mean full seats if BL was present. NY-SAV-JAX-MIA. We can offer the connection that no other Florida City could do. So even if they couldn't come to terms to operate AMTRAK cars behind BL trains, we could have across the platform transfers.

Another future train could connect us with Charlotte. Already in place is excellent freight trackage belonging to Norfolk Southern between Charlotte and Columbia SC, and even better trackage on CSX from Columbia to Jacksonville. Amtrak serves Columbia daily from Jacksonville and all that is needed is a civic push to put passengers back on the rails between Charlotte and Columbia. This would create a through route Charlotte-Columbia-Savannah-Jacksonville.

So, imagine the typical day with 6 southbound and 6 northbound trains on BL daily. Amtrak arrives with one of its two trains from the northeast or Midwest, possibly 3 if one considers the Palmetto. 20 minutes later a BL locomotive heads south with 8 cars and a locomotive and trailing that 4 Amtrak cars, 2 coaches, a sleeper and a lounge. During other hours 3 more BL trains depart for South Florida. This concept is as old as railroading itself.

At some point, perhaps the next millennium the States of Florida and Georgia pony up for Amtrak's State supported trains. We very likely would get Atlanta-Macon-Valdosta-JAX on the Norfolk Southern (or UNION PACIFIC IF they merge). We would see an extra train from JAX-ORL-TAMPA and another running JAX-OCALA-TAMPA. Even without a revival of the 'SUNSET LIMITED,' our magnificent and impressive downtown Terminal would be a beehive of activity. These are all reasons why I have been saying we cannot have a proper downtown station without room for at least 6-8 tracks and 3-4 platforms.

In my vision, the front of the station is lined with U2C vehicles, ready to carry the next trainload of passengers anywhere in the downtown core, 15 at a time @ 12 mph, but hey, THAT is what they are really designed for. Imagine JTA's shuttles as first and last mile excellence

All interesting points, Ock.

The impression I get from how Brightline sees itself is that they see upholding the "sanctity" of their service for their desired clientele as a key priority. The system itself is largely built around accomplishing that upholding, including the mantra of focus on routes that are "too short to fly, too long to drive." To that end, I suspect that they wouldn't be interested in tying themselves too closely to Amtrak and its daily, famously poor OTP services that travel incredibly far and often overnight. That's not to demean Amtrak, as someone who rides them often, just reflect the reality of the situation in the long distance market. It is much easier for Brightline to focus on building their present system's ridership and continue planning for some kind of partnership to expand to Tampa than to introduce what would be a subpar (for their standards) service to Jacksonville. Their trains are also not designed with the intention of coupling other trains onto them, or the ability to turn them around at stations. Even out west, where a key aspect of their California terminus is connectivity with Metrolink to reach Los Angeles, Brightline is still building an enormous parking garage on the expectation that passengers will often use that.

As far as Amtrak, the big question I think with them is figuring out if the state's attitude towards them is going to change anytime soon. They've shown a lot of desire to expand service in Florida, because the services they already have are in great demand, but they've received constant intransigence from state officials, to the point that Amtrak seem to be actively foregoing opportunities in Florida because they see little likelihood of progress beyond relatively modest and mandatory ADA improvements. This is unlike the behavior of officials in Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama, who are now enjoying the success of the Mardi Gras Service. I imagine it is also a difficult proposition to expand long distance services when those are so delicate to cascading delays from elsewhere and limited rolling stock availability. Either the state itself or failing that, some kind of consortium of regional authorities should be looking to the possibility that in a few years when Amtrak's new rolling stock on order frees up older equipment, it will become relatively affordable (simply the matter of track slots and crews) to consider introducing new state supported services, both intra- and inter-state. That's also where, as thelakelander has mentioned elsewhere recently, the prospect of acquiring more corridors should come into play.

This is all to say that I broadly agree with the necessity to work on bringing passenger rail downtown. That obviously needs to include Amtrak from the start, with provisions to accommodate Brightline and regional rail service later. Given the plans for the UF campus, the availability of funds via the LOGT and other grant programs (like the National Railroad Partnership program that will likely fund two Brightline infill stations this year), and the already extant grant funding the City has to work on it, it might be worthwhile to just skip to fully planning the station complex rather than trying to do an interim facility that Amtrak might see as not worth leaving their current facilities for (see: Miami). Something modular, where we can build an initial platform for Amtrak operations that's expandable for regional rail and then add a separate concourse and platform for Brightline (given their security demands) later.

I don't think anyone is going to seriously factor in the U2C as part of the transportation system, so I won't waste anyone's time doing that either.

Great response, thank you.

The concept for BL/AMTRAK is a pure income opportunity for BL and a massive improvement for Amtrak with little effort. Basically, what I envision is two sealed trains, coupled together.

As an example, BL is awaiting departure 45 minutes after Amtrak's arrival. At the platform the typical BL train, locomotive-passenger cars-locomotive. Meanwhile the Amtrak train has been cut into two sections, locomotive and passenger cars for Deland-Orlando-Lakeland-Tampa the other section, is switched over and coupled onto the trailing BL locomotive. The train leaves in a locomotive-passenger cars-locomotive-passenger car configuration. So as far as BL customers are concerned, Amtrak did not exist and there is no access between the two. If Amtrak screwed up the schedule, BL could dispatch a rescue locomotive to carry the late cars down the coast for a fee. Another possibility is the Florida East Coast RY might serve as the rescue service, again for a fee. Such joint arrangements are common on the railroad's and I'm confident that one could be made here.

I don't see the State's attitude toward passenger rail, heavy rail, commuter rail, light rail or streetcar changing anytime soon. The reason is we have placed a fox in the hen house. The University of South Florida in Tampa houses  CUTR (Center for Urban Transportation Research, SEE: https://www.cutr.usf.edu/) the official think tank for Florida transportation projects. The NBRTI (National Bus Rapid Transit Research Institute) program is housed at the Center for Urban Transportation Research (CUTR) at the University of South Florida (USF). In all of their studies nationwide, only one rail project was given a 'possibly feasable,' and then, only because it was considered more of an amusement park type ride than true mass transit. CUTR and the NBRTI are fully supported by the same characters alluded to in Roger Rabbit, GM, STANDARD OIL, FIRESTONE, ETC. The deck is stacked.

As for the station itself, if we achieve even a fraction of our long range plans, it is imperative that we secure space for at least 6 tracks and 3 platforms.   

The U2C actually has a purpose, it's just no where near the outrageous, expensive and bungled train wreck JTA has cooked up. For the cost of full buildout of this iffy brain fart, we could have a modern streetcar running from the stadium to 5-Points.