An Absentee Downtown
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/hionides/Forsyth.jpg)
The Jacksonville Business Journal (http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/) recent released their March edition of the Commercial Real Estate Journal. For those that haven’t seen this before, it contains a breakdown of the commercial real estate, based on regions of town. In the Downtown section, they show the details of many of the buildings available for lease.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/366
[sarcasm]The city should seize the buildings as eminent domain and turn them into pocket parks[/sarcasm]. I know it sounds horrible, but at least then, we'd have a chance of converting the pocket park and building something there that can be used. This guy is the polar opposite of Kuhn and should get the hell out of town. Its people like him that hold up progress downtown.
that's just the tip of the iceberg... check out the main stretch of commercial space in springfield. i wonder why all those spaces sit vacant and decaying. maybe it's...
chris hionides.
and what about the ambassador hotel near the courthouse site. that property would make amazing lofts or a boutique hotel (both with ample-street level retail and connectivity beween the core and lavilla), if it weren't for...
chris hionides.
and remember that great record store, Moon Colony Razorblade? It could possibly still be alive and kicking downtown. too bad they decided to rent from...
chris hionides.
and the sad truth is, i could go on. chris hionides is sitting on these properties like the worthless, greedy slumlord the city government allows him to be. c'mon, jacksonville media (or what's left of it anyways...), let's break this story!
Lets not forget he owns about 40% of Main St too, with no real plans to do anything.
Can anyone build a map that will show what he owns downtown?
here is one for Main St, 1st-8th.
(http://static.flickr.com/103/257334541_1cfd29840b.jpg)
This above was just a sampling of his downtown properties. There were a few buildings not mentioned, like the London Bridge Building and a couple of others downtown (don't even get me started on Springfield). It's a sad shame
I admit that having so much property in so few hands is a deterent to redevelopment. The whole monopoly is evil concept applies here.
But let's look a little deeper. The Holmes block building for example. Is Mr Hionides asking market rent for those spaces conpared to what else is available? If so, then that property doesn't uphold the arguent becasue it is fully renovated and tenant-ready.
What I'm getting at is, is the problem the landlord or the environment (ie lacking of parking or reluctantance to 'walking' on the part of Jax residents, lack of supporting amenities,lack of residential base, etc). If Hionides is the true culprit, then lay out the info. that backs that up.
Just because he owns so many of the buildings doesn't de facto mean he is holding back progress. How do lease terms and rates compare to the norm, both in Jax and in DT. Such details are beyond a layman's understanding, including myself, but no doubt someone in the industry can address the issue.
This building was largely vacant suring the super bowl week. The only reason that I can see is that he was charging an astronomical amount to rent.
isn't Market Rate the amount at which a space will rent? In which case, he is overcharging.
Wasn't the level of rent on of the complaints when Mooncolony closed its doors?
Frankly I am amazed he let Chamblins buy the building that they are moving into. Make no mistake about it, he made almost a million bucks on that nasty old building!
he's the main problem with Jacksonville. A poster once said, "he buys property then sits on it until he can sell it for double". The guy is a cancer on this city. He really doesn't care about Jacksonville, only his wallet. I for one am glad that this has come out on this forum. Whats really interesting is that he and his corporate entities, Petra Management..etc..are practically bankrolling Martha Pellino's campaign. Coincidence? I'm wondering......
Didn't Hionedes just buy the old JEA tower as well? If his goal is to actually rent these properties, and most of them are unrented, why is he still buying them?
It might be interesting to take a look at the property tax records for these properties, because it seems to me that the owners of these buildings would not want to be bleeding money on property taxes and have no tenants. Maybe they got a "special break"?
According to the Property Apprasers Database, the property located at 5 W forsyth (NW corner of Main and Forsyth)
Agriculture Land Value: $0.00
Land Value: $292,950.00
Building Value: $554,591.00
Extra Features Value $23,263.00
Total Improvement Value $577,854.00
Market Value: $870,804.00
Assessed Value $870,804.00
Exemptions Total $0.00
Taxable Value $870,804.00
Total Taxes, plus DVI contribution $16,764.30
It sure seems like Land Value of $292,950.00 is awfully low..... It is on Main St in the central business district. By comparison, the Ceserys bought the the lot they are going to build on at 3rd and Main in Springfield for $540K, with nothing but a tiny cinder block car sales building, and their taxes are $10,005.68
Hionedes has bought millions and millions in property that has no income. I don't know of anyone who can afford to do that. He also owns the cool building at Jefferson and Forsyth as well as half the property on Main St between 1st and 8th. The only building he's renovated is on Bay St and that hasn't rented. He is truly holding back redevelopment in downtown and Springfield.
If anyone cared to do the homework, I'm pretty confident that there might be found to be some kind of symbiosis between the owner of these properties and the property appraisers office.
I was able to do a little research on his property values and the surrounding values according to the property appraiser data. The land values for all of the properties listed in this article are right in line with neighboring properties. They seem to be fairly and equitably assessed. All of downtown land values might be a little low, but you rarely hear of downtown property owners complaining of low assessments. And I don't think anyone would suggest that any property be assessed unfairly.
While this guy and the others like him ARE part of the problem with downtown revitalization, I don't think the gripe here should be against the property appraiser or his office. Good efforts, but they need to be refocused.
Do you think Chris Hionides really wants to destroy this city? you really need to re-evaluate what you write because this makes no sense. Ask yourself if he hadnt have bought those properties who would have...you know what most of those buildings would have become, CRACK HOUSES....property takes time to develop, not something that happens overnight and im sure Chris Hionides has alot more on his plate than you think and he needs time....Before you write another blog like this maybe you should write about something in which you have expertise and experience because talking out of your butt with no valid sources or education makes you guys look like complete fools. Call a property developer and ask him what he thinks. Maybe he can give you a valid answer.
It's not that Hionides wants to destroy Jacksonville per se - it's just that his business model is counter to revitalizing Downtown. His model is to buy property and flip it, while making no improvements in the process.
Actually, we've talked to property developers, property manager, city officials and other people in the industry, including some interviews with current and former tenants. His lease rates are far more expensive than market rate, and he is selling buildings that he bought less than a year ago for almost double what he paid, and did no work on the building whatsoever.
The properties above are just some select examples from downtown. Talk to some of the guys from Springfield, and listen to what they think of him - trust me, it's much more harsh than the above article.
Or should I say Mr. Hionides? I have rehabbed several apartment buildings in Riverside and I can tell you that the first thing you have to do if you are interested in improving your properties and renting them out is to start making improvements. Also, it is helpful if you finish one project before going out and buying another one. Of course, if you are really just a flipper (i.e. someone who buys a property with the sole intention of reselling it for a higher price), then you are not as worried about messing with tenants. The bottom line is, until I see Hionides actually doing something with the majority of his properties, I will have to conclude that he is not interested in being a positive force for downtown and Springfield.
Could you enlighten us as to his time lines or his plans?
If he were to come in and aggressively (a plan over a few years?) start developing, I would be among the first to back off, and maybe even apologies. Mr Hionides could be the Donald Trump of Jacksonville... sadly, so far he has done more holding back of progress rather than fostering it.
Until I see Mr Hionides develop a successful building (his empty building on Bay doesn't count) I am afraid I have little faith in his intentions.
You guys could be the most ignorant people in this city...Do you really think Chris Hionides want to sit on his properties and not rent them??? He is a business man, ofcourse he wants to rent them. But THERE ARE NO TENANTS!!! You have to be joking if you think it is his fault that the buildings are vacant. Thats like saying its your fault that you cant sell your house in a dead housing market. Downtown Jacksonville may be going through a revitalization but it is still not a strong market. Chris Hionides is more than willing to rent his properties im sure, just find him a tenant. and since you guys are sooo concerned about it, why dont you rent one yourself. Maybe the property on Bay Street, the pioneering remodeled building that was one of the only buildings to show revitalization during the Super Bowl.
Wow Michael you and Chris must be awfully close friends...
BTW I hope you somehow come back to this site and read this.
Mr Hionides has every right to buy every piece of land in Jacksonville, but how can you say he really wants to rent them when he charges higher rates than other similar properties.
If, as you say, THERE ARE NO TENANTS!!! , that's definately NOT the time to charge higher rates.
By charging prices that make sense for the market, he could help generate one, then he could restructure his leases as neccessary.
But alas, I don't believe this is his plan at all.
Remember the saying; "Perception is reality."
I had a friend once who wanted to rent a smallish space in a strip mall owned by one our our local strip mall developers. (I won't mention his name.)
It was a bad location and the site needed some work. This landlord was charging substantially more the other rents around him. The site had been empty for several years. My friend made this man an offer less than what he was asking. (My friends business did not depend on foot traffic anyway.)
The landlord turned down his offer. When my friend mentioned the space had been empty for several years, the landlord said, "I would rather it sit empty then lease it for less than what I want."
And of couse by sticking to his inflated price no one benefited. That strip center was blighted and mostly empty for years. And only after a complete renovation did this landlord finally rent the space.
I'm not saying had he rented it to my friend it would have turned things around, but at least he would have been making some money. And who knows activity and leased spaces tend to indicate a successful location a bit more than mostly empty stores..
I have a feeling Mr Hionides may feel the same way about his properties.
As many of the people who frequent these sites, we haved listened and watched for Mr Hionedes grandiose plans, and with few exceptions, they have been smoke and mirrors.
Because of his record, I believe he attempts to "rent" his properties to stave off the city from monitoring his properties, at least those downtown.
And remember Michael, it only been a couple of years or so since Mr Hionides bought the old Jewish Center in Springfield and announced it would be converted into luxury condos. Of course like most of his properties it's for sale for double what he paid with NO single improve to the building.
He announces his plans, which are covered by the local media then YEARS later nothing has happened. And in most cases a for sale sign goes up.
Sorry, he has left himself open to criticism based on his deeds.
No one here resents his ability to buy what he wants and to do what he wants with it.
The depressing thing is HE IS hurting development and progress in Springfield and downtown.
He is almost singlehandedly keeping most of main street blighted and unappealing. If he owned a couple or lots or so then maybe when things developed around him he could get a fat price for his properties, but he owns so much, I think he's making it unattractive to buy and build. Who wants to develop something nice next door to blight and trashy empty lots.
I lived in Springfield in the mid 1980's and left because slumlords were charging unbelieveable prices for rat infested holes they could rent by the week. They NEVER made improvements on their properties which choked progess for years.
Now Mr Hionides is doing the same on one of the main commercial corridors.
We may be wrong about Mr Hionides, and I'm sure he's a nice guy, but based on what we have seen from him in the last few years, it's hard not to believe that his only interest is to flip his properties and fatten his pockets at any cost to downtown and Springfield.
The Chris Hionides Slumlord Millionaire Bathroom Tile on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Chris-Hionides-of-Jacksonville-Fame-1000-6-Tiles_W0QQitemZ120417843016QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c09767748&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116
no buyers yet. this could be a collectors item. I wonder if there is a signed one out there.
Hionides is a businessman, he is paying property taxes, just like us all. Paying the delicious Stormwater FEES also known as TAXES, for those new to property ownership, and if he wanted to burn the buildings down and roast marshmellows while those who dispise him dance around the flames, so be it. He's still paying property taxes, its his business model.
It takes a small person to complain about others, it takes a big person to take the steps to make the change!
Quote from: Michael on May 07, 2007, 06:40:05 PM
You guys could be the most ignorant people in this city...Do you really think Chris Hionides want to sit on his properties and not rent them??? He is a business man, ofcourse he wants to rent them. But THERE ARE NO TENANTS!!! You have to be joking if you think it is his fault that the buildings are vacant. Thats like saying its your fault that you cant sell your house in a dead housing market. Downtown Jacksonville may be going through a revitalization but it is still not a strong market. Chris Hionides is more than willing to rent his properties im sure, just find him a tenant. and since you guys are sooo concerned about it, why dont you rent one yourself. Maybe the property on Bay Street, the pioneering remodeled building that was one of the only buildings to show revitalization during the Super Bowl.
There are no tenants because he routinely demands $10k/mo for leaky and roach-infested rat traps, while expecting the tenants to pay for build-out and renovations. Meanwhile, the surrounding neighborhood usually has 100 other comparable places for lease at 1/10th the price Hionides usually wants. ROFL. He's the only reason all his properties are vacant. Gimme a break, man.
Educate yourself.
Michael, I am a real estate investor myself. When my property is empty, I drop the rent aggressively so I can get tenants. There is no other way around it. It is marketing 101. Compare to northeast, I can tell you that Florida has more flippers than investors. Flippers are not investors. In fact, they are a negative force and usually causes such absentee buildings as we are talking about in this thread. There are several buildings in Springfield were delinquent in taxes. Since it takes at least two years for tax delinquent properties to foreclose, it is expected two more years of the harm of the Mr. Flipper will continue....
As long as Hionides is paying property taxes, I really don't care what he does with his properties.
even if he is paying his taxes (which I am doubtful just take a look at how many cases have been filed against him on the clerks website) he's still Jacksonville's biggest slumlord. For me PETRA equals CRAP. I find it funny that now he's crying about there being no tenants, yet two short years ago when the economy was booming he was holding out for "national retail" this guy is a POS and everything that comes out of his mouth is total BS. And Mtrain, I'm quite sure you would care if he owned a bunch of empty buildings in Avondale around your house that are unkempt, overgrown with weeds and a magnet for vagrants
Then the question then lends itself, why would a man who has money, just sit on properties or landlord slum properties not really making real profit for himself? Doesn't make sense to me. If there are no tenants and the property is just sitting doing nothing, if I were him I would be seeking to sell to someone, hence the intention that he might be flipping some of his properties.
I don't think there is a real answer regarding Mr. Hionides intentions. We don't know for sure whether he is flipping some of his properties, or just sitting on them hoping someone comes along and is interested so he can make real profit...of course that may never happen. Interesting posts here on this man.
Heights Unknown
Is he paying his taxes? Some property owners intentionally DONT pay taxes on time, but rather wait a year or two before catching them all up at once. Apparently this isn't uncommon among commercial property holders?
With so many of his properties having lis pendens filed against them, it may be that they have chosen NOT to pay the taxes. The tax collectors website is down right now, but it might be interesting to see if he IS paying his taxes before assuming he is.
Would that change your opinion Mtrain?
Heights your question has been asked numerous times over the years and there never has been any answer. The only thing I can think at this point is that he's got some type of tax shelter scheme going. He's a painting contractor who's got contracts with the US Navy which I'm sure are quite lucrative. Perhaps these real estate "investments" are really just a way to show losses for tax purposes. There's really no other reason that he would buy up vacant properties and just sit on them. Its been well documented on this blog that people have approached him to rent his properties and were blown away by the rents he asked for. Now he or his shill is coming on here crying about there not being any tenants. Its a total sham. And as for his labelling us as "ignorant" his analogy of blaming ourselves for not being able to sell our home in a "dead" market is about as ignorant as it gets. The market isn't "dead" and if you want to sell you have to price your home aggressively. A good friend of mine just sold a waterfront home for a good chunk of change in this market, why? he put an attractive price on it and it sold in less than 90 days. If Hionedis really wanted to lease these places out they'd be leased out. But really who wants to pay ridiculous rents for a property that hasn't been properly maintained? nobody and thats why this guy sits on mostly vacant property year after year after year. Its got to be some type of tax scheme.
Quote from: mtraininjax on May 31, 2009, 12:13:43 AM
As long as Hionides is paying property taxes, I really don't care what he does with his properties.
What if Mr. Hionides, or anyone for that matter, is not providing the necessary maintenance to prevent the building(s) from being unsafe and are deteriorating to the point of creating blight?
Does your answer change if said properties are located in YOUR neighborhood?
Quote from: vicupstate on May 31, 2009, 11:53:38 AM
Quote from: mtraininjax on May 31, 2009, 12:13:43 AM
As long as Hionides is paying property taxes, I really don't care what he does with his properties.
What if Mr. Hionides, or anyone for that matter, is not providing the necessary maintenance to prevent the building(s) from being safe and are deteriorating to the point of creating blight?
Does your answer change if said properties are located in YOUR neighborhood?
1. A lots of his properties are delinquent on tax or mortgages or both.
2. The property owner has responsibility to keep property complied with city ordinance in addition to paying taxes. Such ordinance include keeping the property secure and clean.