Just noticed during lunch today that Peterbrooke has closed their Downtown location on Laura Street over the weekend. Listed as permanently closed on Google. Another loss for the Northbank
That's unfortunate but not surprised. Foot traffic in the area is down from what it was a few years back.
Will happily be proven wrong, but I'm sure not optimistic about Bread and Board reopening either, unless they've got invisible workers fixing the floors for the last four months.
Estrella has eliminated lunch service as well and cut back hours for dinner.
The Northbank, particularly the Laura Street Corridor, is absolutely collapsing, and anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional. Great that we've got projects like Gateway in the pipeline, but the CBD is burning by the day.
Peterbrooke, Jumpin Jax, Vagabond, Olio, Bread & Board, Jacob's, Magnificat, Zodiak, Burrito Gallery, and numerous others - all gone.
Office vacancies are up, projects like the Laura Street Trio are stuck in purgatory for nearly a decade, the Ambassador Hotel and Independent Life building have seemingly been abandoned and are again exposed to the elements, and unhinged homeless are everywhere.
Despite the insistence that a master plan exists, I still haven't seen anyone in city government present a unified, actionable vision or plan to transform the Laura Street corridor and adjacent blocks into something that is a little less 1940s Hiroshima, and a little more loosely functional, C+ urban corridor. Just a park on the Riverfront, and a $6 million hedge maze at JWJP so the vagrants can harass people and defecate/masturbate in peace.
Just beyond frustrating, and beyond the point where you can blame any one person, entity, or external market condition. Just a failure at all levels.
Even sadder that the incompetence has gone on for so long that no one really even seems to care anymore. Bread and Board Provisions, downtown's most notable retail and restaurant spot, closed its doors nearly four months ago. Local media doesn't seem to have even noticed.
We can't keep shrugging our shoulders at the losses and looking toward renderings for hope. Take that $40 million the DIA wants to give to Related for luxury condos on the Southbank and shovel it into the Laura Street Corridor as fast as legally possible. It's going to take YEARS to reverse the losses of the last two or three years that have piled up during some of the most economically advantageous years the city has ever seen, can't let them keep piling up further.
Wow. Wow. Wow. WHY can't our City leaders work together to strengthen, progress, and make our downtown a success? For all of Big Jax not just for downtown residents. Jacksonville is supposed to be the epicenter of North Florida but Gainesville and Tallahassee seem to be doing much better and behaving much more in that context. I know, I know, take the major Colleges/Universities out of those towns and they probably won't fare very well either. Too many excuses and too much laziness in our City Government relative to downtown. And...yes, this crap has been going on for much too long. If Gateway bows out, we're really in BIG trouble (I shouldn't say that too loud though should I?).
Years ago, circa 1980's, I had a friend from Germany visit me from the Stuttgart area (from a City called Bad Urach). I was in the Navy at the time and took him around town. That was during the day. He was really impressed with downtown (this was back in 1989) and its skyline (the skyline was lacking at the time but to him it was like New York). So when night time came, we went nightclubbing, and, there weren't many hot spots in Jax back then. He kept asking me, "where is the hot spot where all of the bars and restaurants are?" I had to explain to him how Jax was set up, spread out mind you. The next day when I picked him up, he told me he couldn't believe that a city of the size of Jax did not have anything hardly going on, whether around town or downtown; the one thing he said to me has rung in my head since that time; he said: "IT'S A SHAME; ALL OF THOSE TALL BUILDINGS AND IMPRESSIVE SKYLINE AND NOTHING HAPPENING!" I was 33 years old back then (boy I'm old); and Jax still hasn't changed, and downtown to me is even worse. Skyline is a little better than back then, but still overall, and in downtown, NOTHING HAPPENING.
Office to residential conversion should be a tippy top priority.
P.S. Did some asking around about Bread & Board tonight. Will eat my hat if it ever reopens, which is very sad. FANTASTIC, warm, friendly staff that got lied to and left holding the bag from the sounds of it. Can't blame the city for that, but huge loss to the CBD.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on August 19, 2024, 07:57:59 PM
Even sadder that the incompetence has gone on for so long that no one really even seems to care anymore. Bread and Board Provisions, downtown's most notable retail and restaurant spot, closed its doors nearly four months ago. Local media doesn't seem to have even noticed.
What about Snyder Memorial? Of all of Downtown's failures, it's hard to pin down the worst mistake, but one that I am possibly in the most disbelief about is the City's inability to turn it something. Especially with the amount of money it throws around on bad ideas and mediocre projects.
Look at this thread from 2016 about it:
https://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,26947.0.html
Pretty sure similar discussions were on here even well before that one too.
Some want Snyder to become a museum. There's more potential for that space. I wonder what's the delay in RFPing the building?
Quote from: thelakelander on August 19, 2024, 10:18:17 PM
Some want Snyder to become a museum. There's more potential for that space. I wonder what's the delay in RFPing the building?
While I could never fault anyone for wanting to build a Civil Rights museum adjacent to James Weldon Johnson Park considering the key role that Hemming and the surrounding department stores played in our city's Civil Rights history, a museum just isn't the best use of that space at all. I also don't think there's enough room to do it right. MOSH's current building would make more sense.
At the risk of beating a dead horse, a flexible, regularly programmed JWJ Park, anchored by a flagship restaurant/bar at Snyder, reactivated retail bays at the Main Library and MOCA, and smaller in-park food and beverage offerings could help jumpstart that whole corridor all the way down to Riverfront Plaza. Particularly if you spend a few million to extend the Skyway into Brooklyn, which remains the biggest layup imaginable in terms of rapidly expanding the area's potential user base.
That's a basic and practical solution for JWJ Park and its outer square. Snyder is too small to be a museum wortg any weight in attracting a decent amount of visitors. Right now, the Ritz is larger and severely underutilized. Instead of spending millions on a buiding, drop some money into a real interactive interpretive experience. Something that attracts people nationwide. A real makeover there would make more sense and help assist with the revitalization of LaVilla.
How long until Bellwether closes? The urban core is on life support, and nobody seems to really care.
I was in downtown for business last Thursday. I have never seen it this bad. At 5, there were nobody but homeless people walking around. I don't think we have more homeless than any other city, we just have nobody else in the mix.
I think people care but don't have the answers to quickly address the situation. Most of the necessary investments and solutions will take years to implement and businesses struggling to survive will not be around when these things come on line. This is the reality of not doing the right things 5, 10, 15 years ago. Warning signs about decisions being a generational setback were expressed and ignored back then. I'm confident things will get better but we'll have to live with the outcome of previous poor public decision-making before they get better.
Quote from: thelakelander on August 19, 2024, 06:06:37 PM
That's unfortunate but not surprised. Foot traffic in the area is down from what it was a few years back.
I think I know the answer but Lakelander would be the best voice to articulate why foot traffic has decreased... anger, frustration, bewilderment... incompetence for sooooooo long is .... I'm not sure what. It isn't even shocking anymore...
^Its a combination of things, IMO. Hate sounding like a broken record but the eviction of +30 retailers, restaurants and the demoliton of the Landing and the free consistent programming of events there was a generational loss for foot traffic and progress. With revitalization, you add to your existing assets, not remove them for unfunded dreams, fool's gold and political theatre. Layer that with the impact of the pandemic (remember the office market wasn't great prepandemic) and the inability to finish the majority of projects proposed during the early 2000s economic boom of and you'll end up where we are today. While we have a lot of infrastructure projects under construction, it will take years for them to come online and there's the reality that some spaces like Riverfront Plaza, will not attract as much people as previous uses consistently did. The most important thing is to accept the reality but work effectively to get as many public and private projects under way and completed as fast as possible. That will also need to layered with enhanced emphasis on clustering and programming. We're in the dog days but not all is lost.
I knew you had a better, more thoughtful, on target, answer than I would have... We have heard this.... for too long.
QuoteWe're in the dog days but not all is lost.
We need better
Quote from: thelakelander on August 20, 2024, 10:04:59 AM
I think people care but don't have the answers to quickly address the situation. Most of the necessary investments and solutions will take years to implement and businesses struggling to survive will not be around when these things come on line. This is the reality of not doing the right things 5, 10, 15 years ago. Warning signs about decisions being a generational setback were expressed and ignored back then. I'm confident things will get better but we'll have to live with the outcome of previous poor public decision-making before they get better.
If we immediately repurposed the hundreds of millions in developer incentives to building a viable and sustainable master plan, historic preservation, attractive streetscapes lined with small local businesses supported by appropriate Downtown zoning, increased public/green spaces to host events and programming, increased security 24/7 and replacing U2C with robust urban centered mass transit, we could have Downtown on a roll within months, not decades. But, where do you see DIA or anyone advocating for Downtown development promoting any of these things? Not rocket science, just plain common sense, implemented in hundreds of small, medium and large towns and cities worldwide but not here.
I don't see Khan's entertainment district, the Gateway project or the District being successful unless they are totally self sufficient and self contained. And, if successful, where is the connecting tissue to spread that success to all of the urban core if their success is self made? I don't see anyone filling in those gaps.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on August 20, 2024, 10:09:07 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on August 20, 2024, 10:04:59 AM
I think people care but don't have the answers to quickly address the situation. Most of the necessary investments and solutions will take years to implement and businesses struggling to survive will not be around when these things come on line. This is the reality of not doing the right things 5, 10, 15 years ago. Warning signs about decisions being a generational setback were expressed and ignored back then. I'm confident things will get better but we'll have to live with the outcome of previous poor public decision-making before they get better.
If we immediately repurposed the hundreds of millions in developer incentives to building a viable and sustainable master plan, historic preservation, attractive streetscapes lined with small local businesses supported by appropriate Downtown zoning, increased public/green spaces to host events and programming, increased security 24/7 and replacing U2C with robust urban centered mass transit,
Making a scope, bidding it out, making a consultant selection, negotiating a contract, etc. could take six months to a year. Doing a plan with extensive community engagement could take another year. Then money would have to be allocated behind anything that plan recommends for implementation. Nothing will be rolling within months but its not all bad news.
Quote...we could have Downtown on a roll within months, not decades.
I think we can have things moving in an upward direction by the end of Deegan's first term. Around that time, many of the park and infrastructure projects under construction now will be recently completed.
QuoteI don't see Khan's entertainment district, the Gateway project or the District being successful unless they are totally self sufficient and self contained. And, if successful, where is the connecting tissue to spread that success to all of the urban core if their success is self made? I don't see anyone filling in those gaps.
Khan's stuff will be a second node but that entertainment district is still plus five years out before one person pays for an overpriced Lot J craft beer. Gateway's fortunes will be better than most projects because they've acquired enough land to master plan its own little self contained environment. Next time in Tampa, check out Water Street. It is a little node to itself that happens to be adjacent to the Channel District. Yet, there's still a gulf of emptiness around the Lee Roy Selman Expressway, between Water Street and Tampa's historic downtown.
Quote from: thelakelander on August 20, 2024, 10:47:55 PM
Khan's stuff will be a second node but that entertainment district is still plus five years out before one person pays for an overpriced Lot J craft beer. Gateway's fortunes will be better than most projects because they've acquired enough land to master plan its own little self contained environment. Next time in Tampa, check out Water Street. It is a little node to itself that happens to be adjacent to the Channel District. Yet, there's still a gulf of emptiness around the Lee Roy Selman Expressway, between Water Street and Tampa's historic downtown.
I haven't been to Tampa in a couple years, so I'm interested to see how Water Street has progressed when I visit in a few weeks. Wouldn't you agree that Water Street has a lot more assets near it than Gateway? It's right next to the Lightning stadium that hosts 41 hockey games yearly, plus concerts. It's close to the Convention Center and close to Sparkman Wharf, Port, and Florida Aquarium. It's right along the free streetcar route to Ybor and has another streetcar route that connects to the rest of Downtown Tampa. It's also the closest major commercial area to Harbour Island. It's the closest part of Downtown Tampa to Hyde Park and Davis Islands, which are very desirable places to live with residents with disposable income. It's also right across the water from Tampa General (3rd largest hospital in Florida), with an easy water taxi ride or short drive.
I think the Jacksonville equivalent would be if Gateway was in Brooklyn, but Brooklyn had a Skyway stop, Vystar Arena, the old Landing, Shands a few blocks away, and MOSH.
Imo, I think Gateway only works if UF locates in or very near it.
Yes, Water Street has more in proximity but it and Pearl Street are also two very different projects. I think Gateway works regardless of UF. People want to be in the area and there's a market for what they are doing. Demand has never been the real issue with DT Jacksonville's struggles.
Anyone heard anything recent about UF's choice for location? Have they unofficially made up their mind? A couple of months ago, it felt like LaVilla was the leading choice, with the Fairgrounds being a distant third. Hearing more people talking about the Fairgrounds of late though as a real contender.
Heard they haven't even started the process to go to the JEA building. I think Sasse is going to get scrutinized about his spending, especially this project and the following president will scrap it.
Quote from: jcjohnpaint on August 21, 2024, 11:27:29 AM
Heard they haven't even started the process to go to the JEA building. I think Sasse is going to get scrutinized about his spending, especially this project and the following president will scrap it.
Only thing that may save it is momentum. Not many universities that will walk away from $200 to $300 million in the pipeline to them. And, the chair of UF's trustees is really the one pushing this the most, it seems, regardless of who the president is. That said, this project has always seemed a bit mushy to me. It would be a positive for Jax to get high level graduate programs here as that has been a significant deficiency over the decades in our economic development. Less today than in the past, but still room for more.
I don't think UF can walk away from the Jax project now. Vanderbilt is about to get approved to build a 300k square foot, $520 million dollar graduate campus in Downtown WPB where UF was previously in negotiations for their campus. They have already lined up 9 figures of private donations for the project. From what I've heard, many influential UF alums think walking away from WPB was a terrible decision. I don't see how UF can't walk away from that deal, only to do nothing in Jax.
Sounds like the Jax process could be a mess though. Sasse is under a lot of scrutiny for his spending and the guy he hired to spearhead the Jax project is not even close to the type of background you would expect to see for that role. Will be interesting to see what that $50 million has been used for...
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/columns/nate-monroe/2024/08/19/university-of-florida-jacksonville-graduate-campus-moving-ahead/74828839007/
Reply to Heights Unknown (#4)... Did you take your friend to The Landing, which was one of the places to be back in 1989? It opened in 1986 or thereabouts, as I recall. Sorry he didn't find that impressive, if you did make it there. (A "B-52" at Mardi-Gras or whatever that bar was on the 2nd floor with the wall of frozen cocktails might have changed his mind).
Quote from: CityLife on August 21, 2024, 12:10:05 PM
I don't think UF can walk away from the Jax project now. Vanderbilt is about to get approved to build a 300k square foot, $520 million dollar graduate campus in Downtown WPB where UF was previously in negotiations for their campus. They have already lined up 9 figures of private donations for the project. From what I've heard, many influential UF alums think walking away from WPB was a terrible decision. I don't see how UF can't walk away from that deal, only to do nothing in Jax.
Sounds like the Jax process could be a mess though. Sasse is under a lot of scrutiny for his spending and the guy he hired to spearhead the Jax project is not even close to the type of background you would expect to see for that role. Will be interesting to see what that $50 million has been used for...
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/columns/nate-monroe/2024/08/19/university-of-florida-jacksonville-graduate-campus-moving-ahead/74828839007/
A grad campus was moving (in WPB and then in Jax) before Sasse was in charge so I wouldn't expect it to go away with him leaving. We're in great luck that WPB's loss was our gain (although now they've apparently made up for it with Vanderbilt, I wonder if they'll have to name it after Ken Griffin).
Even if there are delays, I think it'll ultimately happen, but I don't think it's out of the question that in classic Jax fashion we might fail to capitalize on it, and wind up with a UF island surrounded by still-decaying urban core.
In general, it is definitely worrying to see what seems like a unique decline of downtown urban quality in Jacksonville as more and more cities are starting to take off. It's worse still to see denial among city leadership about those conditions. I recently read an article about a new SunRunner station in St. Petersburg and they mentioned having $9 billion of development in the works along the SunRunner corridor. The DIA claims there is $8 billion of development in the works downtown. Either $1 billion is a
massive difference or someone isn't being completely upfront.
Now, that doesn't mean we should be ignorant of where there are wins. Brooklyn seems to be coming along, the Shipyards-Museum District-Stadium Redevelopment looks promising, Pearl Street/Gateway is exciting, the District is going slowly but still going, but those don't appear to be coming together in terms of a cohesive urban center, and there is a gaping lack of urban leadership to bring them together.
The Sunrunner is the brt? They really did that project well unlike our brt.
Quote from: sandyshoes on August 21, 2024, 01:09:59 PM
Reply to Heights Unknown (#4)... Did you take your friend to The Landing, which was one of the places to be back in 1989? It opened in 1986 or thereabouts, as I recall. Sorry he didn't find that impressive, if you did make it there. (A "B-52" at Mardi-Gras or whatever that bar was on the 2nd floor with the wall of frozen cocktails might have changed his mind).
Yes I did, and as I recall, he wasn't that impressed. It was during the day, weekday mind you in the afternoon and there wasn't much going on and not many people around; they use to have karaoke on the 2nd deck of the landing and we did that for a while, and we ate at one of the restaurants and watered down at a bar or two, but he was wondering where are the people? And...why isn't there a lot of other night clubs, restaurants, and other things to happen? In Europe, and I've lived in Europe, in Scotland and Germany, in many of the towns and cities, all of the "happenings" are in the center of those towns and cities; I think it's kind of changed since back then, but in general still the same.
Quote from: marcuscnelson on August 21, 2024, 02:35:07 PM
Quote from: CityLife on August 21, 2024, 12:10:05 PM
I don't think UF can walk away from the Jax project now. Vanderbilt is about to get approved to build a 300k square foot, $520 million dollar graduate campus in Downtown WPB where UF was previously in negotiations for their campus. They have already lined up 9 figures of private donations for the project. From what I've heard, many influential UF alums think walking away from WPB was a terrible decision. I don't see how UF can't walk away from that deal, only to do nothing in Jax.
Sounds like the Jax process could be a mess though. Sasse is under a lot of scrutiny for his spending and the guy he hired to spearhead the Jax project is not even close to the type of background you would expect to see for that role. Will be interesting to see what that $50 million has been used for...
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/columns/nate-monroe/2024/08/19/university-of-florida-jacksonville-graduate-campus-moving-ahead/74828839007/
A grad campus was moving (in WPB and then in Jax) before Sasse was in charge so I wouldn't expect it to go away with him leaving. We're in great luck that WPB's loss was our gain (although now they've apparently made up for it with Vanderbilt, I wonder if they'll have to name it after Ken Griffin).
Even if there are delays, I think it'll ultimately happen, but I don't think it's out of the question that in classic Jax fashion we might fail to capitalize on it, and wind up with a UF island surrounded by still-decaying urban core.
In general, it is definitely worrying to see what seems like a unique decline of downtown urban quality in Jacksonville as more and more cities are starting to take off. It's worse still to see denial among city leadership about those conditions. I recently read an article about a new SunRunner station in St. Petersburg and they mentioned having $9 billion of development in the works along the SunRunner corridor. The DIA claims there is $8 billion of development in the works downtown. Either $1 billion is a massive difference or someone isn't being completely upfront.
Now, that doesn't mean we should be ignorant of where there are wins. Brooklyn seems to be coming along, the Shipyards-Museum District-Stadium Redevelopment looks promising, Pearl Street/Gateway is exciting, the District is going slowly but still going, but those don't appear to be coming together in terms of a cohesive urban center, and there is a gaping lack of urban leadership to bring them together.
And yes, other peer major or large cities are blowing Jax away, but, also smaller cities and even towns seems to be blowing Jax away as well.
Peterbrooke and Bread & Board Update:
QuotePeterbrooke Chocolatier closes Downtown location
Peterbrooke Chocolatier permanently closed its Downtown store at 100 W. Bay St., Suite 2.
The closure, the week of Aug. 16, followed slow business, according to staff at another location and its Downtown neighbors.
The Jacksonville-based franchise first opened Downtown on Feb. 26, 2016. It temporarily relocated to the VyStar Tower at 76 S. Laura St. before opening its Bay Street location on Oct. 15, 2021, following renovations...
...Next door at 100 W. Bay St., The Bread and Board and Provisions closed May 26. It said on Instagram it was "closed for maintenance and repairs throughout summer." A flyer posted at the restaurant indicated an early June opening. It appears little to no work has taken place.
On Aug. 21, the restaurant was locked with no activity. The last permit issued there was Aug. 23, 2023.
VyStar Credit Union said it was deferring comment on both closures.
Other tenants at 100 Bay St. include the rooftop Estrella Cocina restaurant, is open Wednesday-Thursday for dinner, and the walk-up Bread and Burger in the VyStar breezeway, open Monday-Friday for lunch.
Both restaurants have the same owner as The Bread and Board. The Bread and Board ownership could not be reached for comment.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2024/aug/22/peterbrooke-chocolatier-closes-downtown-location/
Preparing to be shot down for this, I have no data or stats but this is simply my perception of Jax from my own eyes and socialisation. In Jacksonville unfortunately unlike like bigger and more progressive cities the goal for young adults isn't to move Downtown or to an urban area, it's to move to the Southside, STJC or Clay, buy a Mcmansion in a good school district and an F-150. Social circles revolve heavily around going to church, college sports or activities like boating and fishing. Jax just moves far slower and has a small town mentality. Downtown is just not a desirable place for locals, they look down on it. The way the Southside and adjacent counties have pillaged the urban core is just tragic. It's why I take the growth of Jax with a pinch of salt, it's all virtually suburban.
^Infill and adaptive reuse projects in Riverside, Springfield, Brooklyn, San Marco and even downtown continue to fill up quick when they can get built and completed. I believe there's a demand. There are other things, self inflicted IMO, that ruined what could have been done during the previous two historic urban development economic boom periods.
Quote from: landfall on August 22, 2024, 10:55:16 PM
Preparing to be shot down for this, I have no data or stats but this is simply my perception of Jax from my own eyes and socialisation. In Jacksonville unfortunately unlike like bigger and more progressive cities the goal for young adults isn't to move Downtown or to an urban area, it's to move to the Southside, STJC or Clay, buy a Mcmansion in a good school district and an F-150. Social circles revolve heavily around going to church, college sports or activities like boating and fishing. Jax just moves far slower and has a small town mentality. Downtown is just not a desirable place for locals, they look down on it. The way the Southside and adjacent counties have pillaged the urban core is just tragic. It's why I take the growth of Jax with a pinch of salt, it's all virtually suburban.
Agree and disagree. You are describing a particular subset of suburban resident in NE Florida that you know. I know a few types too, and I'm sure there are many more. I know people that live in SJC/Nocatee/Beaches that do so because they are hardcore runners/cyclists and there are better places to do that (and it's safer for women). Some that do so for golf or surfing. And others that do so for youth sports. But the quality of schools seems to be a draw for those with families as well.
It seems to be increasingly difficult to move to or stay in the urban core if you have kids. If you live in the urban core of Jacksonville, how far do you have to drive for your kids to play competitive baseball or soccer? How far do you have to drive to send your kids to a good school or to go shopping? Many people also like their kids to live near the kids they go to school and play sports with, which is a challenge in the urban core. This leaves die hard urbanists, people that work downtown, and those with kids that are more into arts than sports in the urban core.
To offset some of the advantages the suburbs have, the urban core has to have an overwhelming advantage in the arts, culture, and dining. These things have to be so strong of a draw that people will drive a little extra to go shopping, hit the beach, or take their kids to school/sports; not to mention put up with homeless people and maybe a little extra crime. Historically in Jax, culture tipped heavily in the urban core's favor, but seems to have more parity with downtown's decline. St. Augustine has especially made it easier for people to move to SJC. It's always been a draw, but seems to be an increasingly favorable place for a date night over the urban core of Jax. Plus Ponte Vedra Music Hall and the St. Auggie Amphitheater get a lot of the best concerts in the area. Then you have the rise of SJTC and suburban office parks, which have also made it easier to live there over the urban core.
Fortunately for Jax, it has an absolutely fantastic housing stock and some great bones in it's urban core. There are also a lot of people that prefer urban living over suburban living, especially those without kids. So there should always be a base of middle class residents in the urban core...but there is no doubt that Nocatee, Beaches, and other suburban areas have made it easier for people on the fence to opt for that lifestyle. If things do not get fixed in the next 5-10 years, the urban core could have a major out flight of the middle class.
On a slightly different, but related topic. I recently saw Richard Florida speak. He's a well respected urbanist that always seems to be great at looking into the future and forecasting trends. He brought up a great point and that is that Gen Z does not drink and party as much as Gen X and Millennials did. He noted that one of the big draws in cities has historically been nightlife, but that Gen Z seems to be increasingly looking for healthier lifestyles. Which sometimes can be in suburban or exurban areas with nature preserves and outdoor activities. If Gen Z is not able to backfill Jacksonville's urban neighborhoods as older residents pass away and some with families opt for the burbs, it could lead to a big decline in the future.
In summary...Jax has to create/maintain special places in the urban core, hold tons of events, foster a great culinary scene, and create a unique experience that you cannot get in the suburbs. We all know and post about this idea, but at the same time the City also seems to be incapable of executing. Hopefully, some of the new projects under construction or in the works come to fruition. Otherwise, we may see a slow and steady decline that may or may not already be underway.
I agree with much of what CityLIfe posted.
Different strokes for different folks.
Even in major cities like NYC, there seems to be a tendency for city dwellers to be young childless couples, single or older empty nesters. With kids, many families want the wide open spaces for ball fields, courts, gymnasiums, cycling, running, playgrounds, swimming, fishing, etc. that kids "require" more than not that are more sparse or are not conveniently accessible in the urban core.
Add that school buildings in the urban core are often aging which, right or wrong, creates a perception that adds to parents believing newer schools in the burbs will service their kids better. This is why putting magnet schools in the urban core and investing in rehabbing older urban core schools can play a significant role in offsetting the draw of suburban areas for a certain demographic. (Unfortunately, thanks to our governor, much of such funding is being siphoned off for "new" charter school buildings rather than going to where the real needs are.)
But, regardless of demographic status, most everyone does want safe and secure public spaces and the ability to recreate on some reasonable level. The latter is why I keep saying parks are critical to the future of Downtown and we can't have too many of them if Downtown wants to compete with the burbs. Curious, is there one ball field (other than the stadiums!) within walking distance of the "North Core"?
Another key missing ingredient here for living in the urban core is poor urban core mass transit. A major draw for urban living is be able to go "car-less." With our poor walkability and lousy urban core mass transit, a car remains a must for living in the urban core. With that, again, the urban core loses an edge to the burbs.
As stated, repeatedly, here, none of this is rocket science but we have no leadership, consistency or master plan to appropriately connect these dots and execute appropriate steps to address our shortcomings.
As someone who works in the DT residential space, I think CityLife and Jaxlongtimer have hit the nail on the head. There is a massive demand for urban living in Jacksonville however Downtown in its current state struggles to provide the urban lifestyle that many seek and are willing to pay for. We have many people both from within Jax and newcomers who are excited about the prospect of living Downtown until they actually get Downtown. The lack of reliable public transportation, decaying building stock, the steadily increasing homeless population, lack of nightlife outside of weekends or special events. All of these are real and visible issues that can be fixed but until that happens, many people will choose the Beach, SJTC, and to a lesser extent St Johns and Clay County over DT.
Jax is not unique in having multiple parts of town that appeal and compete for the same demographic but we are unique in continuously doing the exact opposite of what we should to create an attractive and vibrant downtown. The demand is there and occupancy rates prove that but until the city gets its shit together, people who want to live Downtown will continue to choose other parts of the metro where they can get more at a comparable price
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on August 23, 2024, 12:03:27 PM
Curious, is there one ball field (other than the stadiums!) within walking distance of the "North Core"?
The closest ballfields are in Springfield (Klutho Park), LaVilla (Florida Dwight Park), Brooklyn (Brooklyn Park) and the Eastside (Robert F. Kennedy Center/Flossie Brunson Park). If there was a reason to walk, Klutho Park and Florida Dwight Park would be within walking distance of the Northbank core. But no one is walking to these places if the walk is characterized by vacant lots, surface parking lots, blank walls and fast moving traffic. However, as the Emerald Trail comes online, it will make these spaces more accessible for Northbank residents.
Quote from: thelakelander on August 23, 2024, 02:05:42 PM
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on August 23, 2024, 12:03:27 PM
Curious, is there one ball field (other than the stadiums!) within walking distance of the "North Core"?
The closest ballfields are in Springfield (Klutho Park), LaVilla (Florida Dwight Park), Brooklyn (Brooklyn Park) and the Eastside (Robert F. Kennedy Center/Flossie Brunson Park). If there was a reason to walk, Klutho Park and Florida Dwight Park would be within walking distance of the Northbank core. But no one is walking to these places if the walk is characterized by vacant lots, surface parking lots, blank walls and fast moving traffic. However, as the Emerald Trail comes online, it will make these spaces more accessible for Northbank residents.
The problem is there is one baseball field at Klutho, one at RFK and they are both terrible. Neither even has a fence. I don't think there is even a tee ball league at either, let alone a travel baseball league.
Burnett Park in Mandarin where I played as a kid has 8 actual baseball fields that are in great shape. Davis Park in Nocatee has six baseball and four softball fields. There are tons of other baseball fields in both areas and elsewhere in the burbs. Soccer is as or more popular than baseball in many parts of Florida, and there is nothing in the urban core. Even though I think Lacrosse is meh, it's also gaining popularity as well and there are no leagues in the urban core.
There are virtually no youth sports opportunities in the urban core, other than maybe hoops and football. Even then, I would imagine the burbs have better opportunities.
Quote from: CityLife on August 23, 2024, 02:38:15 PMThere are virtually no youth sports opportunities in the urban core, other than maybe hoops and football. Even then, I would imagine the burbs have better opportunities.
Between Shipyards West (fully funded through the CBD) and Met Park (which should be fully funded between the CBD, Jags, and another public funds), we should start to see some progress to that end in the next couple of years, thankfully.
Urban core parks need love to! Hopefully well before new playing fields are built in the Northbank. I also agree with many of the recent posts in the thread.
Bread & Board plans to reopen:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2024/aug/23/the-bread-and-board-is-planning-to-reopen-downtown/
Quote from: thelakelander on August 23, 2024, 08:24:57 PM
Bread & Board plans to reopen:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2024/aug/23/the-bread-and-board-is-planning-to-reopen-downtown/
Truly lazy journalism here by the Daily Record.
Dudes have been bouncing checks to their staff for months, have multiple suppliers after them for unpaid bills, froze their bank accounts so their workers couldn't cash their final paychecks, and have a long history of similar behavior both locally and on the other coast.
Daily Record should talk to the staff and their current and past business partners before copying and pasting an email and calling it a story. Anyone's who's walked by Bread & Board in the last 3 months knows these dudes have done nothing.
Would hope they'd make things right with all the people they misled and screwed over before they even dreamed of "reopening."