Quote(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Friendship-Fountain---February-2024/i-HDS5hdf/0/tnh9pGvQXcK3Ds7z9wgBnkhnWHJGVqTVnRhwrzbg/L/20240214_173641-L.jpg)
The Census Bureau recently released their 2023 estimates for the country's largest cities. Did you know that the Port St. Lucie could soon pass St. Petersburg to become Florida's fourth largest city? This list contains Florida's largest cities ranked by 2023 population.
Read More: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/floridas-largest-cities-by-population/
As the saying goes, "Size isn't everything". Rank these same cities by regional and national importance and the list looks completely different. This list does highlight one thing that we all know: FLORIDA IS GROWING!
Another observation is that Jax city's growth is tied the entire county due to consolidation while most of the other cities population growth likely includes primarily their downtowns and urban core. If Jax was likewise compared, I would speculate that our growth rate is way behind the other cities, not only in Florida but also on the national listing.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on May 30, 2024, 11:19:13 PM
Another observation is that Jax city's growth is tied the entire county due to consolidation while most of the other cities population growth likely includes primarily their downtowns and urban core. If Jax was likewise compared, I would speculate that our growth rate is way behind the other cities, not only in Florida but also on the national listing.
Most other cities that are seeing high growth within the city limits annexed suburban areas. Some like Jax, Nashville, etc consolidated, but others just annexed high growth areas while drawing around disadvantaged areas.
Quote from: Tacachale on May 31, 2024, 02:33:09 AM
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on May 30, 2024, 11:19:13 PM
Another observation is that Jax city's growth is tied the entire county due to consolidation while most of the other cities population growth likely includes primarily their downtowns and urban core. If Jax was likewise compared, I would speculate that our growth rate is way behind the other cities, not only in Florida but also on the national listing.
Most other cities that are seeing high growth within the city limits annexed suburban areas. Some like Jax, Nashville, etc consolidated, but others just annexed high growth areas while drawing around disadvantaged areas.
To further prove this point, if Jax were just the 13 major zip codes surrounding Downtown, we'd have a population of approximately 390k in an area of 117 square miles (3300/square mile).
By comparison, Orlando has 320k residents in 110 square miles (2900/square mile) and Tampa has 403k residents in 114 square miles (3500/square mile)
So if Jax hadn't consolidated and took a similar path as other major Florida cities in annexing inner-ring suburban areas, we'd mostly still be on par with them today in city population but with a much smaller metro population
Good point. We're really no different from any place else.
I've said this in other threads, but some say Jax has an inferiority complex, but I think it actually has a false superiority complex due to consolidation and a city population that is skewed up much higher relative to it's metro population. The same way that a city like Port St. Lucie can now claim to be the 6th largest city in Florida even though it's probably not even in the top 10-15 most important cities in the Miami CSA (larger version of Miami Metro).
Jax is Florida's 4th largest MSA and only the 38th in the USA. South Florida is 6 million, Tampa/St. Pete is 3.3 million, Orlando is 2.8 million, and Jax is 1.7 million. If you break out Fort Lauderdale, St. Pete, and WPB from their MSA's, Jax is really somewhere between the 4th and 7th most important city/population center in Florida and somewhere in the 30's or 40's nationally.
"Population" = "Importance"?
Quote from: Charles Hunter on May 31, 2024, 10:58:11 AM
"Population" = "Importance"?
^The question or point is not entirely clear. Can you clarify?
Quote from: CityLife on May 31, 2024, 10:06:52 AM
Jax is Florida's 4th largest MSA and only the 38th in the USA. South Florida is 6 million, Tampa/St. Pete is 3.3 million, Orlando is 2.8 million, and Jax is 1.7 million. If you break out Fort Lauderdale, St. Pete, and WPB from their MSA's, Jax is really somewhere between the 4th and 7th most important city/population center in Florida and somewhere in the 30's or 40's nationally.
I think if more realized this, it would help from an economic development and opportunity perspective. It would also cut down on apples and oranges comparisons to cities in metropolitan areas that are several times larger than Jax's MSA.
Quote from: CityLife on May 31, 2024, 11:39:08 AM
Quote from: Charles Hunter on May 31, 2024, 10:58:11 AM
"Population" = "Importance"?
^The question or point is not entirely clear. Can you clarify?
Your post included
Quote
Jax is really somewhere between the 4th and 7th most important city/population center in Florida and somewhere in the 30's or 40's nationally.
which appeared, to me, to be equating a city's population with its importance. Not really sure how you would measure "importance."
Quote from: Charles Hunter on May 31, 2024, 01:31:08 PM
Quote from: CityLife on May 31, 2024, 11:39:08 AM
Quote from: Charles Hunter on May 31, 2024, 10:58:11 AM
"Population" = "Importance"?
^The question or point is not entirely clear. Can you clarify?
Your post included
Quote
Jax is really somewhere between the 4th and 7th most important city/population center in Florida and somewhere in the 30's or 40's nationally.
which appeared, to me, to be equating a city's population with its importance. Not really sure how you would measure "importance."
Importance is entirely subjective in the discussion, which is why I said it could be ranked anywhere from 4th to 7th in the state depending on how someone defines importance.
Objectively though, I don't think it's possible to consider Jacksonville more important to the state than Miami, Tampa, and Orlando. I don't think even the Chamber of Commerce President or Mayor could straight face that one.
Something I think is overlooked in all of the Census 2023 population estimates is that over the next several years at the rate Jacksonville is growing, it's metropolitan area population will exceed that of Norfolk-Virginia Beach. Now over the years, Jacksonville has taken over many mostly rust belt type metro regions over the last 30 years, but to me achieving this milestone is more significant because of the similar dynamics of the two regions: Sprawling port regions with huge military presences and solid logistic hubs with not a ton of higher educational choices nor corporate prowess that were overshadowed by flashier, more progressive leaning metro areas in their own state and have languished in obscurity in the national conscience.
For a long time, it seemed like Hampton Roads was considered the ceiling for what a region like ours could hope to achieve which is why Jacksonville finally overtaking them is not just symbolic but meaningful. Yes, most of the region's growth has been triggered by the explosive growth of the exurbs so it's refreshing to note from the latest Census estimates that the city proper contributed to that growth, not shooting themselves in the foot having our population gains siphoned off by central Clay, St. Johns, and Nassau counties.
It makes it more frustrating that all this population and tax base growth can't be reaped to make Jacksonville's urban core more dynamic, and it's still overshadowed by so many other regions in Florida and may always will be, but it's still astounding the progress the region has made over the last 35 years.
Quote from: JaxJersey-licious on May 31, 2024, 05:39:44 PM
Something I think is overlooked in all of the Census 2023 population estimates is that over the next several years at the rate Jacksonville is growing, it's metropolitan area population will exceed that of Norfolk-Virginia Beach. Now over the years, Jacksonville has taken over many mostly rust belt type metro regions over the last 30 years, but to me achieving this milestone is more significant because of the similar dynamics of the two regions: Sprawling port regions with huge military presences and solid logistic hubs with not a ton of higher educational choices nor corporate prowess that were overshadowed by flashier, more progressive leaning metro areas in their own state and have languished in obscurity in the national conscience.
For a long time, it seemed like Hampton Roads was considered the ceiling for what a region like ours could hope to achieve which is why Jacksonville finally overtaking them is not just symbolic but meaningful. Yes, most of the region's growth has been triggered by the explosive growth of the exurbs so it's refreshing to note from the latest Census estimates that the city proper contributed to that growth, not shooting themselves in the foot having our population gains siphoned off by central Clay, St. Johns, and Nassau counties.
It makes it more frustrating that all this population and tax base growth can't be reaped to make Jacksonville's urban core more dynamic, and it's still overshadowed by so many other regions in Florida and may always will be, but it's still astounding the progress the region has made over the last 35 years.
I think a big misconception with the explosive growth of the suburban counties is that it has come at the expense of Duval County. Even with massive growth in St Johns, Clay, and Nassau over the last 20 years, generally around 45% of growth in the metro has been in Duval County. The growth in the suburban counties is more visible as it's easy to see acres of trees cleared and sprawling subdivisions put in their place where as Duval experiences more multi-family and infill growth in established neighborhoods and subdivisions are generally in the outskirts of the county. The growth in Duval is also fueled by entirely different demographics than what is fueling the growth in the suburbs so it's hard to assume they would have otherwise moved here had there been no options available in the outer counties. People that like suburbs generally tend to seek out other suburbs when they move and vice versa for those that like urban living
This is why if we ever get to a point that we see a housing boom in and around Downtown, it will probably supplement the existing growth in the rest of Jacksonville rather than compete against it
Quote from: Zac T on June 01, 2024, 09:30:40 AM
Quote from: JaxJersey-licious on May 31, 2024, 05:39:44 PM
Something I think is overlooked in all of the Census 2023 population estimates is that over the next several years at the rate Jacksonville is growing, it's metropolitan area population will exceed that of Norfolk-Virginia Beach. Now over the years, Jacksonville has taken over many mostly rust belt type metro regions over the last 30 years, but to me achieving this milestone is more significant because of the similar dynamics of the two regions: Sprawling port regions with huge military presences and solid logistic hubs with not a ton of higher educational choices nor corporate prowess that were overshadowed by flashier, more progressive leaning metro areas in their own state and have languished in obscurity in the national conscience.
For a long time, it seemed like Hampton Roads was considered the ceiling for what a region like ours could hope to achieve which is why Jacksonville finally overtaking them is not just symbolic but meaningful. Yes, most of the region's growth has been triggered by the explosive growth of the exurbs so it's refreshing to note from the latest Census estimates that the city proper contributed to that growth, not shooting themselves in the foot having our population gains siphoned off by central Clay, St. Johns, and Nassau counties.
It makes it more frustrating that all this population and tax base growth can't be reaped to make Jacksonville's urban core more dynamic, and it's still overshadowed by so many other regions in Florida and may always will be, but it's still astounding the progress the region has made over the last 35 years.
I think a big misconception with the explosive growth of the suburban counties is that it has come at the expense of Duval County. Even with massive growth in St Johns, Clay, and Nassau over the last 20 years, generally around 45% of growth in the metro has been in Duval County. The growth in the suburban counties is more visible as it's easy to see acres of trees cleared and sprawling subdivisions put in their place where as Duval experiences more multi-family and infill growth in established neighborhoods and subdivisions are generally in the outskirts of the county. The growth in Duval is also fueled by entirely different demographics than what is fueling the growth in the suburbs so it's hard to assume they would have otherwise moved here had there been no options available in the outer counties. People that like suburbs generally tend to seek out other suburbs when they move and vice versa for those that like urban living
This is why if we ever get to a point that we see a housing boom in and around Downtown, it will probably supplement the existing growth in the rest of Jacksonville rather than compete against it
Well put. I'm fine with the people who want suburbs to keep moving to the suburbs, and the people who want Duval coming to Duval. Now, what I'd really like to see are toll booths on every entrance to the county from the suburbs.