POSTED ON THE Sun Ray Facebook page:
Quote
WARNING: BAD NEWS POST
A patron of Sun-Ray found out about the impending sale of the building we are currently in so we need to finally share the news with you all. The sale isn't complete but we've not received any offers to continue our lease once the building is purchased. We had one meeting with the potential buyers from Atlanta back in January and never heard from them again.
Despite our attempts in the past to purchase just the theater portion of the building which is possible through a process called condominiumizing they have turned us down. We've dreamed for years of renovating this theater into the gem that it could be for the neighborhood but it looks like that might never happen.
The patron put together an online campaign and if you'd like to see Sun- Ray continue in this spot there is a way to send a quick email over to the owner expressing those words.
https://www.facebook.com/sunraycinema
It's really hard to tell if the patron's petition/emailer website is an overreaction. Has the developer refused to sign a new lease, or is there any real indication that Sunray will be closed down?
I wouldn't put it past an out-of-town developer to do some stupid stuff and ruin the character of a cool spot in Jax, but the idea of carving a parking garage out of a movie theater doesn't make much sense to me...
Absolutely sick to my stomach over this news. I was born and raised in Five Points, my grandmother & uncle owned and operated the Five Points Deli, my mom worked there while pregnant with me and even Gunnel & Tom of Edge City watched me grow up. In my later years, I would go to many shows at the old Club 5/Marquee Theater, would always hear about Saturday Night Deduction and of course the infamous arrest of Marilyn Manson & Jack Off Jill's lead singer, Jessicka. Sun-Ray Cinema moving into the building and providing Five Points with a destination other than another taco joint has been so great for the neighborhood, while respecting the buildings historical significance. Just another nail in the coffin into erasing Jacksonville's history with another PARKING GARAGE. Disgusting.
Quote from: deathstar on April 16, 2024, 04:49:41 PM
Just another nail in the coffin into erasing Jacksonville's history with another PARKING GARAGE. Disgusting.
Is there anything concrete that says that, though? I'm confused as to where the parking garage talk is coming from. Based on the FB comments, that almost seems like a rumor or an old rendering. Do you know anything more about this?
According to the Property Appraiser's website, the building at 1022 Park St (the theater building) has a historic designation. Wouldn't that preclude demolition and/or re-use as something other than it's current use, especially since the theater has been there since like 1927?
Tim/Schanna has since been commenting that the garage "idea" was apparently just a rumor from a while back; which was immediately questionable to begin for multiple reasons.
It sounds like an Atlanta-based firm is purchasing the property, and Tim posted a comment saying the property was recently visited by individuals representing a virtual golf company.
Sun-Ray going away would probably the most devastatingly bad thing to ever happen in the urban core to me in my lifetime. We'll see what happens, but it sounds like whoever is buying the building has zero interest in keeping them as tenants. It's a shame they never purchased the theater portion from the Shads before it was too late.
The theatre isn't in threat of being torn down for a parking garage. Sun Ray may close but the building is designated local landmark.
Quote from: thelakelander on April 16, 2024, 05:53:33 PM
The theatre isn't in threat of being torn down for a parking garage. Sun Ray may close but the building is designated local landmark.
Yeah but Sun Ray closing would be terrible for this city
Unfortunately, they don't own the building. I'm not sure what, if anything can be done realistically to keep them there, if the two parties can't come to an agreement for them to stay. I don't know the details of the disagreement but I'm sure it comes down to a difference in money.
I don't know how virtual golf businesses work, but would a movie-theater-shaped space be a good fit for that? Doesn't seem to be the sort of business that 'fits' in 5 Points.
I would hate to see the Sun-Ray close, I've been to several movies, and a few concerts and other events, there, and Tim and Shanna have always been gracious hosts. I also saw a few movies at the old Five Points Theater.
Quote from: Josh on April 16, 2024, 05:50:04 PM
Tim/Schanna has since been commenting that the garage "idea" was apparently just a rumor from a while back; which was immediately questionable to begin for multiple reasons.
It sounds like an Atlanta-based firm is purchasing the property, and Tim posted a comment saying the property was recently visited by individuals representing a virtual golf company.
Sun-Ray going away would probably the most devastatingly bad thing to ever happen in the urban core to me in my lifetime. We'll see what happens, but it sounds like whoever is buying the building has zero interest in keeping them as tenants. It's a shame they never purchased the theater portion from the Shads before it was too late.
SunRay closing to be the most devastating thing to happen in the core in recent history? Not so sure about that lol.
From the
Business Journal Daily Record (at 6:45 pm) - I just saw it on FB
Quote
Amid rumors spread April 16 on social media about the possible sale and planned demolition of the Five Points Theatre in Riverside, building owner Jack Shad released a statement:
"Our family bought the 5 Points Theatre Building in 2004 and did a complete historic rehabilitation to return this beautiful building to its original appearance. After almost 20 years, it is time for us to sell the building to a new owner who can maintain that legacy. After a long search, we have found a buyer with experience managing other historic properties throughout the southeast," Shad said in an email.
He declined to identify the buyer but said it will be honoring all of the existing leases, as required by law.
As asked in that FB thread - how much longer does Sun-Ray have on their lease?
My family knew the owner of the original 5 Points theater and we saw many movies there... 2001, A Space Odyssey, Mary Poppins, Sound of Music... so many more classics. In the day, many movies had an intermission to hit the concession stand or restrooms.
All theaters had single screens... no multiplexes. The first multi-screen I recall was the Regency theater that was the area's largest theater in a round building. It was so large, that they eventually built a wall down the middle making it into a two screen theater. Just in time for the release of Jaws with lines around the block.
I am dating myself, LOL.
UPDATE: Adding Times Union coverage link: https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2024/04/16/sun-ray-cinema-brew-building-to-sell-not-become-parking-garage-historic-designation-jacksonville/73345508007/
QuoteThe petition's creator, Adam Guillette, said residents worried the designation would not hold because of renovations done to the building decades earlier.
This is not how local designations work. We can put this rumor to bed. Now Sun-Ray may very well close though. That's another issue altogether.
Historic Designation = Outside Safe, Inside can be gutted to anything*
*In some cases, only certain elements are "historic" and in those cases, only that element needs to be saved.
NYC Palace Theatre is an example of "elements" being historic & not the overall building. Hence why exterior change is allowed in that scenario.
(https://untappedcities.com/2022/01/10/historic-palace-theatre-begins-lift/)
^Local and National Register historic designations have different preservation criteria. This one has a local Jacksonville designation, so that criteria would apply to it. Whatever they do in NYC may not be exactly applicable to what's in Jax's LDC.
Whoever started that petition really put the cart in front of the horse and wound up spreading a bunch of rumors. I'm sure the 1500+ emails that the petition website sent out to city officials and the current owner were REALLY well received and not at all annoying...
I am really rooting for Sunray but the petition was poorly thought out.
^I don't see how lease negotiating through social media rumors is a good thing for remaining. That's just my two cents.
^ I completely agree. I think this was a misstep and an overreaction on their part to a perceived threat that may not have been there. Without confirmation that the lease was going to be terminated by the new owner there was no need to go on social media and cause a frenzy, rallying the community based on rumors to email the owner, buyer, and members of city leadership to the tune of over a thousand emails, may have inadvertently shot themselves in the foot.
I hope not, but I could easily see this social media frenzy being a huge detriment to themselves.
Anyway I'm going there on Friday to see a movie!
Wait a minute. Maybe a new tenant will be a real Game Changer ... like a Fudrucker's!!! Or, a new location for Hamburger Mary's!!!
After our moment of levity, we now return you to your discussion, already in progress.
On a more serious note, just saw on Facebook
(https://scontent-mia3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/435894322_10160147887858412_8538223739285385611_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=XhOdr3t_VEIAb7q6_a9&_nc_ht=scontent-mia3-2.xx&oh=00_AfDgQgol1LzYi-EwUpRqihvft_qaSHGeCEHAUwko8vUtbg&oe=66259787)
I'm struggling with this and how the last half day has played out is so confusing. I don't believe the new owner has any serious thoughts about demo'ing the theatre. The thing is a historic building in its own right and is also a contributing structure in the Riverside Historic District. Perhaps the parking garage thing is a concept that he for the surface lot. The theatre lot itself is likely too small for a structure but maybe if you can assemble that lot with the ones at the corner of Park and Post?
Now, putting that aside: I do think Sun-Ray is a good asset for the neighborhood. I'd like it see it stay. Beyond that, I'm not sure the city government can be stepping in on what is a private lease between a private landlord and a private tenant. So, what's this rally for?
I'd like to Sun-Ray to stay as well. Its a great asset to the community and the urban core's last remaining cinema in operation. However, all the social media commotion, rumors, rallys, etc. actually do them more harm than good. All the rallies in the world at city hall won't make much of a positive impact at all. COJ has nothing to do with a private landloard tenant agreement. The tenant and landlord will need to work that out behind closed doors. A public spectical is more likely to have the landlord want to part ways with an unstable (I'm not calling anyone this, but acknowledging a landlord's view could be shaped that way via the nonsense flying on social media.) tenant.
Quote from: thelakelander on April 17, 2024, 10:57:27 AM
I'd like to Sun-Ray to stay as well. Its a great asset to the community and the urban core's last remaining cinema in operation. However, all the social media commotion, rumors, rallys, etc. actually do them more harm than good. All the rallies in the world at city hall won't make much of a positive impact at all. COJ has nothing to do with a private landloard tenant agreement. The tenant and landlord will need to work that out behind closed doors. A public spectical is more likely to have the landlord want to part ways with an unstable (I'm not calling anyone this, but acknowledging a landlord's view could be shaped that way via the nonsense flying on social media.) tenant.
1,000%. Public lobbying efforts have to be led by people who know the right strings to pull and right way to shape the narrative. Putting out misinformation and bombarding elected officials with emails based on misinformation is the perfect way to ruin a just cause. I like the attempt to save the Sun Ray, but don't respect the game. Like Logan Roy said
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F_jFckZWwAAxw2f.jpg:large)
Quote from: thelakelander on April 17, 2024, 09:09:01 AM
^Local and National Register historic designations have different preservation criteria. This one has a local Jacksonville designation, so that criteria would apply to it. Whatever they do in NYC may not be exactly applicable to what's in Jax's LDC.
Didn't realize this was only on a local landmark... We've done worse *cough cough* Ford Plant.
It may be on the NR as well as a part of the Riverside-Avondale NR Historic District, but I'd need to check to verify. The Ford plant was falling into the river with no hope of reuse without the city paying the lion's share of the rehabilitation costs. That was a completely different situation.
Quote from: deathstar on April 16, 2024, 04:49:41 PM
Absolutely sick to my stomach over this news. I was born and raised in Five Points, my grandmother & uncle owned and operated the Five Points Deli, my mom worked there while pregnant with me and even Gunnel & Tom of Edge City watched me grow up. In my later years, I would go to many shows at the old Club 5/Marquee Theater, would always hear about Saturday Night Deduction and of course the infamous arrest of Marilyn Manson & Jack Off Jill's lead singer, Jessicka. Sun-Ray Cinema moving into the building and providing Five Points with a destination other than another taco joint has been so great for the neighborhood, while respecting the buildings historical significance. Just another nail in the coffin into erasing Jacksonville's history with another PARKING GARAGE. Disgusting.
Bummer Energy man!.... you gotta chgane your user name,something other than ******* "deathstar" ********
I first walked in to Five Points Death Star in 1979. Hung out there today for just a bit, an increasingly rare visit, this time,on assignment. I personally knew Mike Shad.
In the early 1980's one could be employed at Five Points Fans And Stoves ansd sell Fans and make $30,000 + a year.
A cool Bungalow in Riverside/Avondale could be bought for $60,000.
Everything is different now, here's Edgy Avant Garde Diverse Eclectic Police Barracaded Five Points on to the next whatever...
It seems like Sun Ray has handled this very poorly. A rally at City Hall?! What purpose does that serve? This is an issue between a Landlord and a Tenant. City Hall has no say (nor should they) about an agreement between two private parties. For all we know, Sun Ray could be a bad tenant who never pays their rent on time. I'm not implying that is true but as long as accusations are being thrown out might as well add fuel to the fire!
Quote from: realestatejax on April 18, 2024, 11:19:57 AM
It seems like Sun Ray has handled this very poorly. A rally at City Hall?! What purpose does that serve? This is an issue between a Landlord and a Tenant. City Hall has no say (nor should they) about an agreement between two private parties. For all we know, Sun Ray could be a bad tenant who never pays their rent on time. I'm not implying that is true but as long as accusations are being thrown out might as well add fuel to the fire!
This^. If there was some form of the dark arts that a city could use to resolve this situation favorably for Sun-Ray, I feel pretty confident I would know it. I can't think of anything. I'm sure COJ could find a way to chip in some kind of cultural grant dollars or something similar, but that is a slippery slope. Then the next thing you know every beloved Jax business would be asking for the same type of deal.
It all comes down to money. This energy would be much better used fundraising for Sun Ray to help their lease re-negotiations. Do a GoFund Me, Create a fundraising event (ala Empire Records), and/or try and create a program where people pay upfront to attend a certain amount of movies yearly. IMO, that is the solution. SunRay should create a program that let's you see an unlimited amount of movies yearly for say $500, then use that upfront revenue to make a favorable offer to the existing or prospective landlord. If you want SunRay to stay so badly, put your money where your mouth is.
Quote from: CityLife on April 18, 2024, 11:55:02 AM
It all comes down to money. This energy would be much better used fundraising for Sun Ray to help their lease re-negotiations. Do a GoFund Me, Create a fundraising event (ala Empire Records), and/or try and create a program where people pay upfront to attend a certain amount of movies yearly. IMO, that is the solution. SunRay should create a program that let's you see an unlimited amount of movies yearly for say $500, then use that upfront revenue to make a favorable offer to the existing or prospective landlord. If you want SunRay to stay so badly, put your money where your mouth is.
SunRay did offer a year-long pass at the beginning of the year. The only difference from your idea is for them to sell them year-round with moving expiration dates, and the price. I wonder how many the sold?
(https://scontent-mia3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/416095627_774669808032762_1012641346597050226_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=dHN5Q4PekBgAb5Iiw7k&_nc_ht=scontent-mia3-1.xx&oh=00_AfB-QXWLgycUh2g-RR-EF7qu3x_nhFgU7wADlJgrMhct_g&oe=6626FE2A)
Maybe their business model no longer is profitable. No matter how cool it is to have a theater in operation in Five Points, if the numbers don't work, it is what it is. Businesses come and go.
https://jaxtoday.org/2024/04/17/building-owner-responds-to-sun-ray-cinema-rumors/
The buyer will honor the existing leases. Sunray never said when their lease was up, and only time will tell when it comes time to renew with the new owner.
They really got all riled up over what appears to be nothing right now...
Quote from: jax_hwy_engineer on April 18, 2024, 01:23:33 PM
https://jaxtoday.org/2024/04/17/building-owner-responds-to-sun-ray-cinema-rumors/
The buyer will honor the existing leases. Sunray never said when their lease was up, and only time will tell when it comes time to renew with the new owner.
They really got all riled up over what appears to be nothing right now...
Based on the info below from the Times Union and that leases typically roll forward in 5 year increments, I would guess their lease might go to 2028, 20 years from 2008.
QuoteIt once again returned as 5 Points Theatre in 2008 before being renovated in 2011 by the current owners.
Here is a little bit of history of the 5 Points Theater from Mr. Mandell's obituary:
QuoteMANDELL Sheldon H. Mandell, 93, passed away October 17, 2005. He was born in Philadelphia on November 27, 1911 and moved to Jacksonville in 1939. Mr. Mandell was a retired motion picture theatre exhibitor. He opened St. John's Theatre downtown in 1941, and later opened Five Points Theatre.
This whole thing has been a little extra.
Though I was thinking. If someone bought that building, the janky has station at Margaret/post, and the surface lot on post then redeveloped the whole thing I wouldn't be mad if they tore down just the theatre part. That whole stretch along Margaret is a dead eyesore.
It's been SUPER extra. I was talking with a few friends last night about the whole thing, and I was a little disappointed just how whipped-up into a frenzy of despair they all got as a result of the wild rumors. If you look on Reddit or Twitter or Facebook, it's ridiculous just how bent-out-of-shape a buncha people got about this non-story.
Jimmy Peluso posted something on Twitter like "it won't be torn down, over my dead body" and Sunray responded with something along the lines of "that's way too much, it's embarrassing!"
Sunray's tweet has since been deleted, so it seems even they know they wound up stirring up a lot more of a frenzy than they anticipated when they posted that emotionally-charged Facebook post.
Quote from: acme54321 on April 18, 2024, 05:38:09 PM
Though I was thinking. If someone bought that building, the janky has station at Margaret/post, and the surface lot on post then redeveloped the whole thing I wouldn't be mad if they tore down just the theatre part. That whole stretch along Margaret is a dead eyesore.
That whole parcel would be only about 1.6-1.7 acres. Not huge, but you could add some mixed use with integrated structured parking and street level retail on Post or Margaret and it would be much better for the area overall. If the whole site could be brought up to 5 floors it might provide sufficient returns for what would likely be high acquisition costs. Rents could probably be some of the highest in the city for residential and retail.
The building is definitely not getting demoed for a parking garage or any other structure. Sun-Ray is almost certainly getting booted by the new owners when their lease expires in a few months though.
Here's my thought though: Let's say I'm a landlord and I buy a historic building. Let's say for a second that I'm keeping the building and not trying to demo it (because I don't think they are). If I have a tenant taking up the anchor bay of the ground floor, and they are honoring the terms of the lease, why on earth would I want to force them out right after I buy the building?
This is assuming that the tenant is honoring the terms of the lease, of course.
Quote from: Steve on April 19, 2024, 12:30:42 PM
Here's my thought though: Let's say I'm a landlord and I buy a historic building. Let's say for a second that I'm keeping the building and not trying to demo it (because I don't think they are). If I have a tenant taking up the anchor bay of the ground floor, and they are honoring the terms of the lease, why on earth would I want to force them out right after I buy the building?
This is assuming that the tenant is honoring the terms of the lease, of course.
Their lease could be way below market rate. If so, the landlord will likely try to raise the rate closer to market, which the tenant maybe can't afford. Tenant leaves and blames the landlord. It looks like Sunray is already laying the groundwork for that situation. Same thing that happened to Southern Roots. They were practically paying no rent to the prior landlord. Buyer bought for market rate so needed market rate tenants.
Quote from: Josh on April 19, 2024, 11:14:37 AM
The building is definitely not getting demoed for a parking garage or any other structure. Sun-Ray is almost certainly getting booted by the new owners when their lease expires in a few months though.
Not talking about demo-ing anything. You could wrap integrate new construction with the existing structures. Would be tough to add structured parking with the theatre there, but could be doable. Either that or somebody needs to buy the 3 acre block owned by Presbyterian Retirement Communities and make that a large mixed use development with structured parking with the 1st floor being public spaces. Jacksonville has a lot of great retail strips, but without building out around them, eventually they stagnate and fall out of favor. I'm older than this demo so i'm no expert, but to me it seems like Edgewood in Murray Hill has replaced King Street north of Forbes. An older crowd still goes to Dart Bar, Keg n Coin, and Riverside Liquors, but the north end of the street isn't what it was a decade ago. Five points seems to be heading that way too.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on April 19, 2024, 01:17:01 PM
... the landlord will likely try to raise the rate closer to market, which the tenant maybe can't afford. Tenant leaves and blames the landlord. It looks like Sunray is already laying the groundwork for that situation.
This was my thinking after all this settled down, too. Maybe they know they currently have a sweetheart deal but likely won't in the future.
Sucks when rent goes up, and it sucked to lose Southern Roots because I liked that place, but the rent goes up for everyone.
Quote from: Steve on April 19, 2024, 12:30:42 PMIf I have a tenant taking up the anchor bay of the ground floor, and they are honoring the terms of the lease, why on earth would I want to force them out right after I buy the building?
Perhaps another tenant is already lined up...
Perhaps they can't pay the rent already. That's a likely possibility not really being discussed in all the online hoopla.
The new landlord is going to have a lot more invested in the property than the old one so, to achieve a market rate of return, they most certainly will have to raise any "grandfathered" rents. And, if they invest further in upgrading or updating the building, they will expect increased rents to provide a market ROI on that too. Otherwise, there is no incentive to do so.
Some landlords don't want to go through the hassle of pouring more dollars into a property either because of the effort, lack of funds or uncertainty of an appropriate ROI. In return, the tenants live with a lower quality space and/or participate in the maintenance of the building. This is a mixed blessing for the landlord as tenants are rarely going to maintain a space like the owner would. Often, this leads to a continuing downward spiral for the property. At some point, the landlord wants off this treadmill and sells to someone who is more willing to step up as a fully professional landlord. But, again, this comes with increased rents, often driving out existing tenants. For the new landlord, they would spell this out as "opportunity."
Tenants often forget the maxim, the rent pays for the property. If it is too low, there is a day of reckoning.
Quote from: thelakelander on April 19, 2024, 05:33:29 PM
Perhaps they can't pay the rent already. That's a likely possibility not really being discussed in all the online hoopla.
The long established Shoe Store recently exited.
Search COJ JSO Five Points episodes. Neighborhood street closure events. Et Al.
Transition...... Change. Return On Investment.... Yepper. So Glad Not My " Investment ".
Many forces and principalities converging.
Long established Riverside Avondale political boundary recently revised. Riverside disjointed. Avondale getting chipped away... proposed Fishweir Elementary proposed Shut Down. "Elementary" is such an...elementary Word if you think about It,or even if you do not.
I personally know Mike Shad. Our World seemed far removed from Five Points. And it was....
I first stepped foot on to Five Points in 1978.
The call of the gallows near
https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2024/05/21/new-owner-says-sun-ray-cinema-lease-has-expired-wont-be-renewed/
Rumors it will be an indoor golf place.
How exciting.
Like the parking garage assumptions, those are pretty bad rumors.
A Facebook post opines the new owner is leasing the Sun-Ray space to a "music venue company" - going back to being a club?
The new owner says existing lessees can stay until their leases are up (how nice, going to obey the law). But what happens after, especially for the commercial establishments on Park Street? Not all that concerned about the offices upstairs.
Key Element:
What is the Purchase Price? Assumed return on "Investment?" Other ...Elements Fueling Anticipated Outcome.
Apparently Land Use/ Rezone Request not in the picture. Follow up / monitor.
RAP is Comotose.
Note Riverside/Five Points Police Presence/Public info reports for the past two years. Steet Riots. The past ten years of reports interesting.
These aspects will hint to future placement. The purchase price/return aspect key.
It is easy ( and profitable) to alter a neighborhood. It is also easy to just go to Plaid.
We need a local Theatre, and Music Venue. " Listening Room". Try it! Atlanta Investor! Can you do it? If not,why not?
Will the Investor/Principals comment here??
Would be Wonderful to see this palce continued to be patronized by an existing loyal following/tenants,and more.
For me,this is one more Knotch to skip this palce afer thirty some years and Move On and Out.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 21, 2024, 04:56:43 PM
Like the parking garage assumptions, those are pretty bad rumors.
Correct. A golf sim place does not need anywhere close to that much square footage. Music venue is rumor that might have some legs.
The narrative online seems to be "evil developer forces out beloved local business." I'm bummed to see Sun Ray go, but I'm not sure said rumors are particularly fair to Mike Shad or the new developer. They're not running a charity, and it's very hard to make independent theater work in 2024. It's my understanding that Sun Ray hasn't been able to afford to pay rent at current rates for a long time, Mike Shad was very, very generous and patient with them (even forgiving a portion of back rent), and ultimately, he had to pull the plug. I've got no horse in the race, but it does kind of stink to see people getting dragged through the mud for "killing Sun Ray" when, in reality, they probably prolonged its lease on life.
Well-said, Ken.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on May 23, 2024, 01:24:16 PM
The narrative online seems to be "evil developer forces out beloved local business." I'm bummed to see Sun Ray go, but I'm not sure said rumors are particularly fair to Mike Shad or the new developer. They're not running a charity, and it's very hard to make independent theater work in 2024. It's my understanding that Sun Ray hasn't been able to afford to pay rent at current rates for a long time, Mike Shad was very, very generous and patient with them (even forgiving a portion of back rent), and ultimately, he had to pull the plug. I've got no horse in the race, but it does kind of stink to see people getting dragged through the mud for "killing Sun Ray" when, in reality, they probably prolonged its lease on life.
I had a sense that this was the case. I had some disagreements with some of my friends about this whole ordeal just for that reason. Some people think very emotionally and want to think the businesses they hold dear are infallible and that any property owner must be a filthy rich capitalist pig, or worse, that the government should step in to ensure that a business stay in business just because it's a quirky theater.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on May 23, 2024, 01:24:16 PM
The narrative online seems to be "evil developer forces out beloved local business." I'm bummed to see Sun Ray go, but I'm not sure said rumors are particularly fair to Mike Shad or the new developer. They're not running a charity, and it's very hard to make independent theater work in 2024. It's my understanding that Sun Ray hasn't been able to afford to pay rent at current rates for a long time, Mike Shad was very, very generous and patient with them (even forgiving a portion of back rent), and ultimately, he had to pull the plug. I've got no horse in the race, but it does kind of stink to see people getting dragged through the mud for "killing Sun Ray" when, in reality, they probably prolonged its lease on life.
THIS.
Everyone online was recently like, "they said we had nothing to worry about" when the sale rumors were there. I was one of those saying that......but it was about demolishing the building.
Given the rise of the Golden Age of Television (Prestige TV) and changes to the studio system, the volume of high quality independent moves that were around in the 90's and aughts isn't there anymore. I assume that theaters like Sun Ray aren't financially viable, unless backed by a wealthy benefactor or operated as a not-for-profit.
If there are any film lovers in Jax that are truly bummed out by this, create a not-for-profit (or for profit) and work with the Florida Theater or the Terry Theater at JCPA to create a one day a week film series. Show the 5-10 Oscar Best Picture or Best Foreign Films that do not get played in mainstream theaters and show classics. One cool thing to do would be to play the American Film Institute's 100 Best Films in order. I've done this at home and it's pretty great. It always surprises me how many people haven't seen all time great films like Kane, Casablanca, Singing in the Rain, etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFI%27s_100_Years...100_Movies
That would be a great opportunity to stimulate some activity downtown on slow weeknights.
100%. Sun Ray's business isn't viable. Yet people (who more than likely spend more money per month streaming than going to Sun Ray) are so emotional, anything outside of negatively painting the property seller and buyer is blasphemy.
Run Rocky Horror Picture Show at midnight every day for years to balance the books ;D.
From Wikipedia:
QuoteThe Rocky Horror Picture Show is considered to be the longest-running release in film history.[5][46] It benefited from a 20th Century Fox policy that made archival films available to theatres at any time.[47] Having never been pulled by 20th Century Fox from its original 1975 release, it continues to play in cinemas.[48][49] After The Walt Disney Company acquired 20th Century Fox in 2019 and began withdrawing archival Fox movies from theatres to be placed into the Disney Vault, the company made an exception in the case of The Rocky Horror Picture Show to allow the traditional midnight screenings to continue.[47][50]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rocky_Horror_Picture_Show
You could season your fries for the rest of your life with the amount of salt in this reddit thread:
https://www.reddit.com/r/jacksonville/comments/1cx7m7d/sun_ray_officially_closing/
Funniest one so far:
"Absolutely. Sunray is the main pull for that area. I doubt whatever replaces it will be as popular. People will stop visiting five points as a result and the restaurants and bars will start closing up shop. Sunray closing is the canary in the coalmine for that area."
Yeah, sure. The historic district that is absolutely bustling with business wall to wall every weekend will close down because the theater is closed down. The delusional fantasies some people play out in their head are just...sad sometimes...
I'm sure the person was speaking about their personal experience and not being delusional. I live in Avondale and only go to 5 points for the Sunray and Midnight Sun. There is now really nothing to draw us older folks and or families to the area. Not delusional just the truth.
Some info on Sun Ray's replacement:
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/business/briefs/2024/06/17/sun-ray-cinema-could-be-replaced-by-nashville-based-entertainment-venue/74097491007/
Quote from: thelakelander on June 18, 2024, 06:52:21 AM
Some info on Sun Ray's replacement:
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/business/briefs/2024/06/17/sun-ray-cinema-could-be-replaced-by-nashville-based-entertainment-venue/74097491007/
So it won't be a parking garage, golf simulator, or taco shop?! A music venue is a great replacement tenant and will probably activate 5 Points more than the theater. I hope the people that expressed outrage over the news of Sun Ray closing calm down a little.
Why would it activate 5 Points more than a movie theater that shows at least 2-3 movies a day? It looks like most of the venues run by that company host a handful of concerts a month. And then get rented for weddings or other events.
I am staunchly pro sun-ray in this case. They were not even offered an option to match the rent/lease that the developer wanted. This is an out of town developer coming and trying to reinvent the wheel at one of our most special places in town. I will say there could have been a good way to explore this, test consumer desire for their plans, etc. Not only did they not do that, they taunted and mocked people on instagram and social media. Sunray was a local treasure that was not failing. It was special and occupied a space that was purpose built to be a movie theater nearly 100 years ago.
They should have paid their rent. Word is they had a considerable amount of past due rent payments accrued.
Quote from: Jankelope on June 26, 2024, 10:41:03 AM
I am staunchly pro sun-ray in this case. They were not even offered an option to match the rent/lease that the developer wanted. This is an out of town developer coming and trying to reinvent the wheel at one of our most special places in town. I will say there could have been a good way to explore this, test consumer desire for their plans, etc. Not only did they not do that, they taunted and mocked people on instagram and social media. Sunray was a local treasure that was not failing. It was special and occupied a space that was purpose built to be a movie theater nearly 100 years ago.
Sun-ray denies this. They say that they were up to date on rent. I don't feel like they would lie about something that would be very easy for the new developer to plainly state. I could be wrong. It was my understanding based on conversations with the owners that they were not behind on rent and had not been offered a lease extension, even at a higher rate.
Website is live:
https://fivejax.com/
Permits are in:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2024/nov/27/five-points-theater-lands-permit-for-interior-demolition-for-five-music-venue/
I think this is going to be big for Five Points and a really great addition to the area.
Looks like it just might draw more people to 5 points than the musty old theater... sounds like a huge improvement to me... 8)
I guess I am officially Old - don't recognize any of the acts listed in the article.
At least none of the absurd TicketMaster fee fees (that's a fee for charging you a fee)
Quote
According to its website, Marathon Live provides turnkey services, including booking performers, marketing, ticketing, event operations and food and beverages tailored for each event.
I only know Hinder, and the only song of theirs I know is from 2005
Hopefully they get some artists I like
So after months of delays and over a dozen cancelled/postponed shows, the music venue opens tonight. It looks like either the Tennessee based promotion company running it or the Atlanta based private equity firm that bought the building has been flooding Google with five star reviews. I guess they didn't like that people were upset that they bought tickets for shows that never happened.
Just the thought of the traffic and parking is making my blood pressure spike...