https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2024/apr/15/vantrust-developing-2m-square-foot-warehouse-for-burlington-in-savannah/
This story above just broke. Impressive to say the least, on top of the other growth with their combined port. They claim to be the third busiest port in the country now. (other links if interested)
https://www.ttnews.com/articles/port-savannah-expansion
https://gaports.com/cargo/container/
JaxPort seems overlooked by the state at times (although I do think there's more eyes on it now). What else can be done beyond a few new cranes & raised electrical lines? Savannah's port has seen double-digit growth some years. Somewhat crazy when you consider the size of Savannah in relation to all the other large US cargo ports. Currently our ports have a similar max draft but Savannah has a slight edge in their maximum height. They have a large river, we have a large river. There's a lot in common.
^There are only two ports in Georgia. So what we don't have in common is the financial support Savannah and Brunswick get from the state. They are also positioned better for goods being shipped into Atlanta and cities in the that portion of the country.
Quote from: thelakelander on April 15, 2024, 11:24:24 AM
^There are only two ports in Georgia. So what we don't have in common is the financial support Savannah and Brunswick get from the state. They are also positioned better for goods being shipped into Atlanta and cities in the that portion of the country.
The fact they only have one port is true. Not sure that still justifies the lack of attention for it but I do see that as an obvious hurdle.
As for the better positioning, I'd have to heavily disagree there. I-95 & I-10 are the two most important interstates in our country... not to mention the series of rails that converge in Jax. We are way better equipped logistically than Savannah. Savannah's advantage is simply their prior depth advantage & proximity to Atlanta & NC relative to Jax. Savannah has had to quite literally build their rail/highway infrastructure from almost nothing. Our advantage is the existing rail & highway networks that link all of South Florida to the rest of the states... a metro area that easily compares with Atlanta & NC.
Maybe Savannah has lower costs of doing business? Lower land, labor, taxes, port fees, logistics? Would think shippers pick their ports mostly based on costs.
Although, once a port gets to a certain threshold, they may gain an advantage due to the number of shipping lanes coming their way. Kind of like comparing JIA to Atlanta, if easy flying is part of your plans.
Quote from: Jax_Developer on April 15, 2024, 12:14:11 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on April 15, 2024, 11:24:24 AM
^There are only two ports in Georgia. So what we don't have in common is the financial support Savannah and Brunswick get from the state. They are also positioned better for goods being shipped into Atlanta and cities in the that portion of the country.
The fact they only have one port is true. Not sure that still justifies the lack of attention for it but I do see that as an obvious hurdle.
As for the better positioning, I'd have to heavily disagree there. I-95 & I-10 are the two most important interstates in our country... not to mention the series of rails that converge in Jax. We are way better equipped logistically than Savannah. Savannah's advantage is simply their prior depth advantage & proximity to Atlanta & NC relative to Jax. Savannah has had to quite literally build their rail/highway infrastructure from almost nothing. Our advantage is the existing rail & highway networks that link all of South Florida to the rest of the states... a metro area that easily compares with Atlanta & NC.
Savannah is 2 hours closer to Atlanta than Jax. I don't see much of a logistics edge on our end in serving that particular market.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on April 15, 2024, 12:27:23 PM
Maybe Savannah has lower costs of doing business? Lower land, labor, taxes, port fees, logistics? Would think shippers pick their ports mostly based on costs.
Although, once a port gets to a certain threshold, they may gain an advantage due to the number of shipping lanes coming their way. Kind of like comparing JIA to Atlanta, if easy flying is part of your plans.
The affordability could be another big factor. I think there may be some legitimacy to the whole ATL vs JIA example here. Maybe we simply can't attract companies to come here based on our port fees? Perhaps Mayport also plays a role in limiting our ports growth?
I really would challenge the idea that we are somehow less equipped than Savannah on a supply-chain level Lake. We have large logistics companies HQ'd here, near I-95, I-75 & I-10, with one of the largest rivers in the country... I have to imagine the proximity to a large MSA is only one piece of the pie in trade. If anything it's surprising that Jacksonville let Savannah get as big as it is now...
For some perspective, it's 6x larger than Miami by TEU's.
I don't think the size of ports in Savannah, Charleston or Norfolk has anything to do with the size of those cities and MSAs. They have a significant funding advantage by being in states that don't have anywhere close to the amount of ports that Florida has. It's not a slight on Jax or something that Jax specifically isn't doing. Close 10 other ports in Florida and without a doubt, Jaxport would be significantly larger.
The FDOT website lists 14 deepwater ports they help fund (plus 2 inactive ports: Putnam and Citrus). Seven of those are on the Atlantic coast. JAXPORT has a lot of competition for limited dollars. Looking at the FDOT 6-year budget, Seaports will get $1.1 billion, which sounds like a lot of money. But, it only makes up 0.9% of FDOT's $115.7 billion 6-year budget. Highways and Turnpike together will get over 56% of the budget. Federal discretionary grants can provide additional funds for individual ports able to secure them.
Quote from: Jax_Developer on April 15, 2024, 09:57:05 AM
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2024/apr/15/vantrust-developing-2m-square-foot-warehouse-for-burlington-in-savannah/
This story above just broke. Impressive to say the least, on top of the other growth with their combined port. They claim to be the third busiest port in the country now. (other links if interested)
https://www.ttnews.com/articles/port-savannah-expansion
https://gaports.com/cargo/container/
JaxPort seems overlooked by the state at times (although I do think there's more eyes on it now). What else can be done beyond a few new cranes & raised electrical lines? Savannah's port has seen double-digit growth some years. Somewhat crazy when you consider the size of Savannah in relation to all the other large US cargo ports. Currently our ports have a similar max draft but Savannah has a slight edge in their maximum height. They have a large river, we have a large river. There's a lot in common.
See the bolded part & the title. There's no slight to Jacksonville being made... simply put, how can JaxPort participate in the Port growth at seen Savannah? The argument that Savannah is somehow better located doesn't hold much merit being only 130 miles up the coastline, plus everything else I have mentioned.
If the economics work so well for Savannah port, the economics 'should' work well for JaxPort. What is not being understood, is the combined TEU's of all Florida ports are still only 75% of Savannah's TEU's.
https://gaports.dcatalog.com/v/FY22-Annual-Report/?page=6
So, $1.1B is being spent annually on all our ports, while Georgia, a state with an economy the half the size of Florida's, is spending nearly $400M annually in port upgrades alone for the next decade. I understand there's competition with other ports, but I think the big glaring question is why has the overall Florida government decided that getting in on the action isn't their priority? As recent as 2013, the volume at Savannah was 50% of what it is today, and is expected to reach 8m TEU by the end of the decade... They have grown their port more in the past decade than what every port in Florida currently handles annually.
Savannah will effectively build an entire port, the size of Miami currently, in the next decade, and Jacksonville will raise their lines by 2035. The idea that Savannah is somehow better positioned because of its proximity to ATL is not why JaxPort has watched Savannah become the largest port in the Southeast.
Therefore, there really must be a reason why JaxPort has simply watched from the sidelines. (Port Fees, Military, Lack of Policy, Land availability... etc.). Miami/Tampa ports are not the "go to" destination for US distribution so I really don't see how they are even relevant in a competition with Savannah for new calls.
Quote from: Charles Hunter on April 15, 2024, 08:50:51 PM
The FDOT website lists 14 deepwater ports they help fund (plus 2 inactive ports: Putnam and Citrus). Seven of those are on the Atlantic coast. JAXPORT has a lot of competition for limited dollars. Looking at the FDOT 6-year budget, Seaports will get $1.1 billion, which sounds like a lot of money. But, it only makes up 0.9% of FDOT's $115.7 billion 6-year budget. Highways and Turnpike together will get over 56% of the budget. Federal discretionary grants can provide additional funds for individual ports able to secure them.
Right, where are we missing opportunity? Our Seaport budget is clearly not even a fraction of the state's annual expenditure. Hard to imagine there aren't ways to make an impact in the shorter term.
So what do you think Savannah is doing that Jax isn't doing and why?
Quote from: thelakelander on April 16, 2024, 07:32:59 AM
So what do you think Savannah is doing that Jax isn't doing and why?
Take a look at the aerials of their port. Most of that land was nothing but marsh/dirt as recently as a decade ago. The main catalyst for the rise has been increased traffic at the Panama Canal. That was recognized back in the early 2000's based on articles online. The combined efforts of the Port Authority, State & City have been working in tandem to not only increase their overall footprint but to also automate as many systems as they can afford (they seem to afford much more). Dozens of articles on the two topics I could find if anyone wants some links.
JaxPort has had the exact same footprint for quite a while. Same goes with most Florida ports. This same identification was not made until at least a decade later. Savannah already dredged, and was ready for PANAMAX ships in the early 2010's. They have just been way more on the ball than all of Florida, JaxPort aside. Hence why I find it ironic that we are not heavily pursuing port investment for JaxPort. Ironically, South Carolina is getting in the action now (and their port will be state funded).
Not many ports have our draft, potential size, and LNG. We do have unique factors that would make transportation advantageous! (I think at least lol)
How much money did they receive for expansion.....which includes the dredging, compared to ours? I remember the conversations on this forum about them proposing to dredge (JAXPORT back then too) prior to 2010....time flies lol. As a developer, you know that if you have more access to capital you can move forward much quicker compared to those that don't have the same access. I don't think we can undervalue the impact of that.
Quote from: thelakelander on April 16, 2024, 08:21:40 AM
How much money did they receive for expansion.....which includes the dredging, compared to ours? I remember the conversations on this forum about them proposing to dredge (JAXPORT back then too) prior to 2010....time flies lol. As a developer, you know that if you have more access to capital you can move forward much quicker compared to those that don't have the same access. I don't think we can undervalue the impact of that.
Will 100% have to look into that. Much of it seems to be federal however. I'll validate that claim. If so, then I think the conversation is why have we not looked to pursue federal funding? Or any? Was JaxPort's deepening done on any federal dollars?
Here is a quote from a 2017 forum post here:
Quote from: thelakelander on May 22, 2017, 09:58:36 PM
QuoteAs Jacksonville considers spending big bucks to deepen its ship channel, the port of Savannah continues to solidify its position as the busiest hub in the Southeast while closing in on another record-setting year for cargo business.
The Savannah seaport is on track to beat its previous record of about 3.67 million cargo container units set two years ago, officials said Monday at the monthly meeting of the Georgia Ports Authority.
Full article: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2017-05-22/savannah-s-port-keep-setting-records-while-jacksonville-mulls-dredging
Here's another old thread that will provide some background information for you:
https://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,20968.0.html#msg367626
Quote from: thelakelander on April 15, 2024, 06:31:46 PM
Close 10 other ports in Florida and without a doubt, Jaxport would be significantly larger.
Agree with this. Data on size of ports is all over the place, but for numbers of containers in 2020 Miami had 735k, Everglades (FTL) 499k, Jax 236k, Palm Beach 139k, Tampa 76k, and Manatee 56k. By that measure, Florida has 6 of the largest 30 ports in the US.
For total tonnage in 2022, Tampa had 34 million, Everglades (FTL) 27 million, Jax 18 million, Manatee 10 million, Miami 10 million, Canaveral 6.5 million, and Palm Beach 2.5 million. Savannah did 41 million in 2022. If you simply combine Tampa and Jax, you exceed Savannah. If you combine the 3 South Florida ports, you are almost tied with Savannah. Jax is definitely held back by so much competition in state.
To JaxDeveloper's earlier point, I-10 doesn't really help Jax much, since the 4 of the 5 largest ports by tonnage are Houston, Louisiana, Corpus Christi, and New Orleans. While Savannah is better situated along I-95.
A little off topic, but still interesting...For cruise passengers Port Canaveral had 4.2 million, Miami 4 million, Everglades 1.7 million, Tampa 400k, Key West 200k, Palm Beach 200k, and Jax 100k.
^I got some of the data from this report. I don't have time to read or summarize the whole thing, but looks like a good read for anyone interested in the topic.
https://flaports.org/wp-content/uploads/Florida-Seaports-Mission-Plan-2023_FINAL-2-27_web.pdf
Not to be nitpicky, but TEU's are a much more reliable method of measurement than others. TEU's are more reliable due to that measurement specifically relating to the capacity of cargo, not the type of cargo.
In which, Savannah alone outpaces all of Florida combined. So, it really depends how you want to view it.
Quote from: Jax_Developer on April 16, 2024, 12:51:39 PM
Not to be nitpicky, but TEU's are a much more reliable method of measurement than others. TEU's are more reliable due to that measurement specifically relating to the capacity of cargo, not the type of cargo.
In which, Savannah alone outpaces all of Florida combined. So, it really depends how you want to view it.
You are right about the TEU's. Florida's total tonnage is skewed up by Tampa and Everglades processing a lot of liquids, which presumably weigh more than dry cargo. Florida's TEU's in 2022 were 1.3 million Jax, 1.2 million Miami, 1.1 million Everglades, 262k Palm Beach, 178 Tampa, and 177k Manatee. The total is 4.3 million TEU's, whereas Savannah did 5.8 million TEU's in 2022.
That said, the point still remains that there would be more parity between Jax and Savannah if not for competition in state. If the State of Florida had all of it's federal lobbying power, business development efforts, and state funding focused on one mega port, rather than several medium/large ports; it would inevitably be more successful.
Jax does have a big advantage right now over the South Florida and Tampa ports in terms of housing affordability, labor costs/availability, availability of developable land near the port, cost of warehouses/industrial space, and proximity to markets outside of Florida. It does seem like Jax has to make a move, or risk allowing Savannah to grow into a regional hegemon.
Quote from: CityLife on April 16, 2024, 01:49:05 PM
Quote from: Jax_Developer on April 16, 2024, 12:51:39 PM
Not to be nitpicky, but TEU's are a much more reliable method of measurement than others. TEU's are more reliable due to that measurement specifically relating to the capacity of cargo, not the type of cargo.
In which, Savannah alone outpaces all of Florida combined. So, it really depends how you want to view it.
You are right about the TEU's. Florida's total tonnage is skewed up by Tampa and Everglades processing a lot of liquids, which presumably weigh more than dry cargo. Florida's TEU's in 2022 were 1.3 million Jax, 1.2 million Miami, 1.1 million Everglades, 262k Palm Beach, 178 Tampa, and 177k Manatee. The total is 4.3 million TEU's, whereas Savannah did 5.8 million TEU's in 2022.
That said, the point still remains that there would be more parity between Jax and Savannah if not for competition in state. If the State of Florida had all of it's federal lobbying power, business development efforts, and state funding focused on one mega port, rather than several medium/large ports; it would inevitably be more successful.
Jax does have a big advantage right now over the South Florida and Tampa ports in terms of housing affordability, labor costs/availability, availability of developable land near the port, cost of warehouses/industrial space, and proximity to markets outside of Florida. It does seem like Jax has to make a move, or risk allowing Savannah to grow into a regional hegemon.
Exactly this. And to your point above, I'm assuming that JaxPort is the only one Florida port that has a viable chance to compete with Savannah, in any way. After dredging, I'm surprised there hasn't been an effort to expand the existing footprint of the overall port's capacity.
Very interesting articles attached Lake & I'll dig into those this weekend. I'd like to figure out what differences surround the funds involved in making these large projects happen. My gut reaction is, we are due for something state or federal! Why dredge without expanding? The South Florida ports are great, but many of them are maxed or have immense land costs surrounding them. (Or a poor location). We seem to have the ability to expand, and have the right economics to do so. We are still a top warehouse market, and some of the larger projects locally do compete with Savannah's warehouse landscape. Between the two cities, I'm not sure there's a stronger warehouse belt in the country right now.
When the feds did not provide adequate funding for the Savannah River's dredging (JAXPORT got some federal funding), the state of Georgia stepped in and funded the entire project. That's a great funding advantage. Barring a natural disaster, JAXPORT will likely always play second fiddle to Savannah and Charleston.
I'm not suggesting we won't ever be in their shadow. Simply, how can we leech off them more than we are now? They are projecting to grow their demand more by the end of the decade, than Jax currently services annually. It seems to be a combo of a lack of state funding, and the sheer amount of federal lands owned on the St. Johns that hinder our port's expansion.
What do you think about Jaxport's current expansion plans? Crowley's, Keystone's or JEA's?
Quote from: thelakelander on April 16, 2024, 05:49:10 PM
What do you think about Jaxport's current expansion plans? Crowley's, Keystone's or JEA's?
Crowley - Does this have a capacity increase? Never opposed to investment & improvement but does this "add" to JaxPort? LNG is a significant play for the future.
Keystone - Is this the only private market expansion right now? This seems to be one of the only large parcels that has traded with port capabilities & not intended for shipyards.
JEA - Can we get this one going?
Does Southeastern Toyota moving open up new capacity or is it the shifting of existing capacity?
I don't know what all Keystone is doing but they are getting state money to elevate Wigmore Street/Talleyrand Avenue over their railroad tracks to accommodate expansion.
QuoteThe project includes the planning, design, and construction of a vehicular overpass spanning a section of Wigmore Street
in Jacksonville. Wigmore Street is a two-lane roadway located in a heavily industrialized section
of Jacksonville; industries which include seaports, manufacturing, distribution, and related businesses. Wigmore Street is a
key transportation corridor for these industrial entities and connects these industries to other parts of Jacksonville and to
surrounding cities and counties. Expansion and addition of new industry at and near Wigmore Street is occurring and is
desired by the city. There are two existing at-grade railroad crossings at Wigmore Street, and two additional at-grade
crossings are already under construction. The proposed two-lane vehicular overpass will span all four at-grade railroad
crossings so as to alleviate expected vehicular congestion and rail to vehicle conflicts and safety hazards.
https://www.flsenate.gov/PublishedContent/Session/FiscalYear/FY2024-25/LocalFundingInitiativeRequests/FY2024-25_S3336.pdf
They also have a plan to build a new rail spur from the CSX line that runs through Evergreen Cemetery. That spur would also be elevated over Evergreen Avenue, just south of the cemetery and Long Branch Creek. I assume they must have or be acquiring the large tract of property south of Long Branch Creek between Evergreen Avenue and Wigmore Street, just north of the NS railroad line.
A new JAXPORT tenant will take over the 79-acre Southeast Toyota property off Talleyrand. This article states that Enstructure will become one of JaxPort's largest tenants, employing roughly 300 to 400 workers.
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2024/01/22/jaxport-approves-lease-with-enstructure-for-southeast-toyota-space/72286557007/
They'll develop an additional 200,000 square feet of warehouse space on the property. Cargo shipped will be a mix of breakbulk, dry bulk, vehicles and containers. I don't know the details of everything JaxPort is planning but it does appear that they aren't standing put.
More on JaxPort's plans:
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/politics/government/2024/02/15/jaxport-talks-project-updates-new-contracts-in-state-of-the-port-2024-jacksonville-cruise-line/72612875007/
The North Florida TPO is proposing a study to look at the connections between Blount Island and Heckscher Drive in their Draft Budget (called the Unified Planning Work Program). The study would cost $100,000 and include
Quote
Task 5.6
This study will investigate different intersection and grade separation concepts and impacts for SR 105 from New Berlin Rd E. to W. of Blount Island Blvd (1.3 Miles). The study will evaluate transportation needs for the continued long-term development of JAXPORT's Blount Island Marine Terminal (BIMT) as well as future growth and opportunities to improve freight connections to existing and future freight clusters in the area. Furthermore, the study will evaluate opportunities to improve roadway and railroad safety along corridor by eliminating at grade crossings and sustain and enhance the ports strategic seaport military value and readiness to continue to support force deployment during contingencies and other national defense emergencies at BIMT & Marine Corps Support Facility Blount Island (MCSF-BI)
https://northfloridatpo.com/uploads/documents/North-Florida-TPO-2024-25-to-2025-26-Unified-Planning-Work-Program-Draft-3-15-24.pdf
Here are the plans for Keystone's rail project along Long Branch Creek:
https://usace.contentdm.oclc.org/utils/getfile/collection/p16021coll15/id/3452
Thanks for these resources. The Times article has some good figures there. Port-capable land really seems constrained, so great to see connections being added. If we do hit 2 million TEU's by 2025, I'll be more than satisfied! That's a huge increase.
I may have missed it somewhere and it may not be germane to the discussion but does US Navy or military/ government shipping traffic figure into the numbers? I don't believe Savannah handles any of that stuff... justa question...
I don't see in the above discussion any references to other types of cargo than TEU's. JaxPort does a big business in autos and maybe some aggregates. I recall that much of Tampa's tonnage may be aggregates, specifically phosphate. I don't know if there is a single measurement for all port activity given the multiple types of cargos. Maybe a better measure would be the number of employees working the wharfs or otherwise are directly related to the port... after all, it really is about jobs ;D.
I did go on Google Maps and roughly measured that it about 20 miles to the heart of Savannah's port from the ocean, about the same distance as to Talleyrand here. Blount Island is roughly 10 miles inland. So inland travel distance doesn't appear to be a differentiating factor. I wonder if dredging the St. Johns encountered more environmental issues to address vs. dredging the Savannah river but I would think they would be similar given the topography appearing to match up.
I know many Savannah warehouses have migrated to Pooler along I-95 and even into Statesboro, well inland, where I believe Walmart has a huge port-related facility. Based on that, Baker County (which, coincidentally hosts a Walmart domestic distribution center) could easily match cheaper land I would think if that was an issue.
Based on TEU's alone, all this leads me to believe either Savannah has a better geographic location for the mid-Atlantic states and into the midwest, or has developed better shipping lanes or has some other advantage we haven't identified here. Or, maybe they simply have made it a point to focus on containerized freight and not much of any other type of cargo whereas JaxPort has chosen to take a more diversified path.
Regarding cruise passengers, I have heard from port people that Jax will never be a major cruise port for several reasons. First, most cruise ships today can not make it to our cruise terminal due to their large sizes. Second, JaxPort believes there is more revenue from cargo than from passengers so, while they facilitate some smaller cruise ships, they are not going to invest to accommodate much more.
Access to more funding is the big advantage Savannah has over Jax that should not be overlooked or undervalued. You can plan and talk potential all day. None of it comes to fruition if you can't figure out how to implement. If any community should know this, it's Jacksonville.
As for Tampa, Polk County makes that port what it is. Most of what's being shipped out of there is phosphate rock. Yeah, it's heavier than anything coming in or out in containers. I would not be surprised if something like limestone is being shipped out of those mines on the outskirts of Miami/Fort Lauderdale out of Port Everglades.
Quote from: BridgeTroll on April 16, 2024, 07:28:41 PM
I may have missed it somewhere and it may not be germane to the discussion but does US Navy or military/ government shipping traffic figure into the numbers? I don't believe Savannah handles any of that stuff... justa question...
I recognize that Mayport does play a role in the greater JaxPort, but am mainly focused on the business side of this discussion than anything. Maybe if DC ever gives us a carrier we could consider that growth! You'd think they wouldn't want every Fleet Carrier in one port on the east coast but who knows. Maybe you have some insight on that ever happening Bridge?
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on April 16, 2024, 10:38:45 PM
I don't see in the above discussion any references to other types of cargo than TEU's. JaxPort does a big business in autos and maybe some aggregates. I recall that much of Tampa's tonnage may be aggregates, specifically phosphate. I don't know if there is a single measurement for all port activity given the multiple types of cargos. Maybe a better measure would be the number of employees working the wharfs or otherwise are directly related to the port... after all, it really is about jobs ;D.
I did go on Google Maps and roughly measured that it about 20 miles to the heart of Savannah's port from the ocean, about the same distance as to Talleyrand here. Blount Island is roughly 10 miles inland. So inland travel distance doesn't appear to be a differentiating factor. I wonder if dredging the St. Johns encountered more environmental issues to address vs. dredging the Savannah river but I would think they would be similar given the topography appearing to match up.
I know many Savannah warehouses have migrated to Pooler along I-95 and even into Statesboro, well inland, where I believe Walmart has a huge port-related facility. Based on that, Baker County (which, coincidentally hosts a Walmart domestic distribution center) could easily match cheaper land I would think if that was an issue.
Based on TEU's alone, all this leads me to believe either Savannah has a better geographic location for the mid-Atlantic states and into the midwest, or has developed better shipping lanes or has some other advantage we haven't identified here. Or, maybe they simply have made it a point to focus on containerized freight and not much of any other type of cargo whereas JaxPort has chosen to take a more diversified path.
Regarding cruise passengers, I have heard from port people that Jax will never be a major cruise port for several reasons. First, most cruise ships today can not make it to our cruise terminal due to their large sizes. Second, JaxPort believes there is more revenue from cargo than from passengers so, while they facilitate some smaller cruise ships, they are not going to invest to accommodate much more.
Right, see I think the Cruise side of the aisle is out of the question for us. For this discussion, the cruise element heavily limits port growth for Miami, Everglades & Tampa. While we do have Mayport, we have a massive river that the other metros Florida metros don't benefit from. The reason for the focus on TEU's, is only because that's how ports are typically measured. Just very simply, a ports TEU output, is a direct measure of the capacity of that port. (Several things could constrain that, such as: berths, cranes, loading area etc.) Almost all modern cranes can move whatever can be stored in a shipping container, and the tonnage doesn't directly translate to the ports overall size.
For example, if you google it, google will tell you Shanghai is the largest port in the world. Shanghai is actually half the size of the largest port (Ningbo) by total tonnage, but if you compare that same port's TEU output, now Shangai is 1.5x its size. These ports are located near each other too. Which ironically are about 130 miles apart. One does more consumer goods, the other does minerals/aggregates. Ningbo, still has the world's third most TEU output, but is not considered larger than Shanghai if they were to be ranked.
As mentioned earlier, the idea that the economics of Savannah vs. Jacksonville are somehow vastly different, really does not have any economic justification or reasoning to explain why such a phenomenon would be true. There would need to be something locally that is vastly different than Savannah to explain something like that. In fact, I think Jacksonville has better economics for a port city than Savannah, but Savannah has clearly been able to grow with quite a bit of state support over the decades.
--
Whether we want to admit it or not, these are not free markets. These are markets in which the government has intervened, and the most optimal outcome for the economy, might not be what we are seeing now. That outcome has clearly been influenced by the abundance of funding to Savannah, while Jacksonville has maybe been sidelined by other FL ports, it seems. None of that reflects on the economics of Jax vs. Savannah in a free market.
With the port dredge completed, it would be unfortunate to see JaxPort not take apart of future growth opportunities. JaxPort seems to be our biggest economic driver, and the ability to expand on already great progress does exist. It will take a ton of lobbying to activate more port lands beyond what is currently functional or planned, leading me to believe our port's growth is actually fairly constrained beyond optimization at its current state.
Quote from: Jax_Developer on April 17, 2024, 07:53:07 AM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on April 16, 2024, 07:28:41 PM
As mentioned earlier, the idea that the economics of Savannah vs. Jacksonville are somehow vastly different, really does not have any economic justification or reasoning to explain why such a phenomenon would be true. There would need to be something locally that is vastly different than Savannah to explain something like that. In fact, I think Jacksonville has better economics for a port city than Savannah, but Savannah has clearly been able to grow with quite a bit of state support over the decades.
Bingo. Can't talk economics without quick access to capital. Savannah has that by being one of two ports in the entire state of Georgia. No port in Florida can compare because we have so many competiting for the state's limited pool of allocated funds. Ballgame on that end.
Quote from: thelakelander on April 17, 2024, 09:07:06 AM
Quote from: Jax_Developer on April 17, 2024, 07:53:07 AM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on April 16, 2024, 07:28:41 PM
As mentioned earlier, the idea that the economics of Savannah vs. Jacksonville are somehow vastly different, really does not have any economic justification or reasoning to explain why such a phenomenon would be true. There would need to be something locally that is vastly different than Savannah to explain something like that. In fact, I think Jacksonville has better economics for a port city than Savannah, but Savannah has clearly been able to grow with quite a bit of state support over the decades.
Bingo. Can't talk economics without quick access to capital. Savannah has that by being one of two ports in the entire state of Georgia. No port in Florida can compare because we have so many competiting for the state's limited pool of allocated funds. Ballgame on that end.
I guess I just disagree there. Our economy is twice of Georgia's. Funds are available, we just choose to spend them elsewhere.
There are several other factors at play that far outweigh local economy. when it comes to ports and their markets. If local economies were apples to apples, Brunswick's port would be much smaller than Fort Pierce's.
Quote from: thelakelander on April 17, 2024, 09:28:15 AM
There are several other factors at play that far outweigh local economy. when it comes to ports and their markets. If local economies were apples to apples, Brunswick's port would be much smaller than Fort Pierce's.
Yeah, one other thing Jax has going against it versus Savannah is that Savannah is all in on their port. It is the number one focus of all of their economic development efforts and along with tourism, is the only thing they really have going on. Jax has a more diversified economy, with a lot of focus in other areas.
In sports analogy terms, it's like UGA (Savannah) is putting all of it's efforts into football, while having minimal in-state competition; where UF (Jax) has to compete with FSU, UM, and to a lesser extent UCF and USF, while also trying to be good at basketball, baseball, and women's sports.
Economies are certainly apples to apples in this situation. The state budget of Florida is $115B, the state budget of Georgia is $32B. Almost 4x the size... It's well established that the combined FL ports are no where near that proportion.
You both are essentially comparing a FBS program to an FCS program, yet the FCS is like North Dakota State playing against a poorly funded D1, like a Kent State, who is us in this example. A well funded FBS program, should be able to improve just as well, if not better than a well funded FCS.
There is money, it is simply being used elsewhere. I think that's a pretty safe statement to make here. As you have proven Lake, much of our funding has been federal, not state sourced.
A major factor limiting the expansion of Jaxport is the USMC facility occupying the eastern portion of Blount Island. Using Google Maps for a rough approximation, the Marines own about 55% of the island (1.4 square miles of 2.5 square miles). I'm not saying we should ask the Marines to leave, but it is a condition we must acknowledge.
Quote from: Jax_Developer on April 17, 2024, 09:58:10 AM
Economies are certainly apples to apples in this situation. The state budget of Florida is $115B, the state budget of Georgia is $32B. Almost 4x the size... It's well established that the combined FL ports are no where near that proportion.
You both are essentially comparing a FBS program to an FCS program, yet the FCS is like North Dakota State playing against a poorly funded D1, like a Kent State, who is us in this example. A well funded FBS program, should be able to improve just as well, if not better than a well funded FCS.
There is money, it is simply being used elsewhere. I think that's a pretty safe statement to make here. As you have proven Lake, much of our funding has been federal, not state sourced.
You are also focusing exclusively on TEU's as a measure of success and economic impacts. Port Everglades doesn't have as many TEU's as Jax, but supports 206k jobs. Same with Port of Miami that supports 334k jobs and $43 billion to Florida's economy. JaxPort supports 139k jobs and $31 billion in economic impact. Combined, those 2 ports support almost 4 times as many jobs as JaxPort. Then there are the impact those ports (and Canaveral) have on the tourism industry through cruising. They are the top 3 outbound cruise ports in the world and bring tons of visitors and $ into the state. Finally, the Port of Palm Beach is the mega yacht capital of the US and Everglades/FTL is the yacht capital of the US. There are 141k people employed in the marine industry in South Florida, and people in Jax would be surprised how much money people on these crews make. Having such a strong yachting environment is also part of the reason South Florida is such a desirable place for the rich to live or play. It brings in a huge amount of wealth into the state.
Long story short. Despite Jax having slightly more TEU's (1.3 million) than Port of Everglades (1.1 million) and Port of Miami (1.2 million), those ports are bigger economic development engines to the state and support a much larger economy. The GDP of South Florida is about 5x larger than Jax. Tampa's is almost double. Yes, they are basically on par per capita, but still tough for Jax to compete with economies of that scale for limited state dollars.
Georgia views funding for Savannah's port as a plus to both the Atlanta and Savannah economies. Atlanta sees the port as an extension of its economy and helps in federal and state lobbying efforts. In Florida, any dollars that go to one port are seen as competition to other ports. Not apples to apples at all.
^Yes, I agree with CityLife on this one. There are so many factors at play, that an exclusive focus on TEU's or the local community's economy should not be viewed as the end all measures of success and economic impact.
None of these conversations are relevant on a community scale. I never claimed our local economy being the justification for expansion. There are a laundry list of other reasons on a greater scale than locally. All of which (transit network, cost of living, river availability) are all simply facts. Compound that with our state's budget, the economic growth in the Southeast, everything being said supports obvious container growth. These are basic measures in any economy for cargo growth.
I'm not 100% focused on TEU's but I can understand why you are mentioning that. Obviously our combined ports service many more industries than just Savannah. Cruises, Military, I concede fully! That, is not what I am focused on, but it does seem to be what is being repeatedly mentioned in this thread. The conversation gets extremely nuanced when you factor in these industries as well. Fundamentally, the focus of starting this thread relates specifically to cargo transit.
All of these other industries have much greater powers beyond basic supply-chain's. At its core, people need goods. The argument that Jacksonville is not somehow well positioned to take growth from Savannah is honestly so closed minded. The factors at play, clearly, are heavily sourced from the state's backing vs. Georgia. Georgia sees container growth as a priority, Florida doesn't. That simple.
When a port 130 miles away is going to grow more than our entire port combined in the next 5 years, you really have to ask yourself if we are missing out on any action. That's the conversation here. You can bring up all the South Florida ports as counters to this missed opportunity, it all doesn't amount to anything meaningful in this context when we are specifically referring to this very hyper defined region in our national supply chain.
Quote from: Jax_Developer on April 17, 2024, 11:31:18 AM
The factors at play, clearly, are heavily sourced from the state's backing vs. Georgia. Georgia sees container growth as a priority, Florida doesn't. That simple.
These are the key sentences in this discussion. It boils down to state support. I have to believe the leaders of the City and Jaxport would be able to spend additional state and federal funding, if it were available.
Interesting, when trying (unsuccessfully) to find how much state funding Savannah's port gets, I saw articles about two "limitations" they want to overcome:
+ They want to increase vertical clearance of the Talmadge Bridge, now at 185 feet.
Quote
GPB [NPR] News, Oct. 13, 2023
"We have ships today that want to come here today that cannot fit under the bridge," Lynch told reporters. "And we have had to turn that business away and tell our customers we can't do it."
In order to help the port meet its projected 65% container traffic growth in 2035, he expects that the Georgia Department of Transportation will begin lifting the bridge around October 2024 by adjusting its cables, with completion in late 2026 or early 2027.
The exact height of the lift has not been determined, but GDOT will make that decision in the coming months, Lynch said.
And, from the January 4, 2024 Atlanta-Journal Constitution (this is all I could read before hitting the paywall)
Quote
SAVANNAH — The Talmadge Bridge is in need of a yoga-like stretch, and the Georgia Department of Transportation has chosen the contractor to add as much as 20 feet of clearance beneath the 1,100-foot span.
Peachtree City-based Kiewit Infrastructure South is the lead contractor on a $189 million project that calls for replacing the bridge's support cables. The cable replacement is to begin in early 2025 and is expected to be completed in 2028. The project is considered a maintenance action but plans are for the new cables to be shorter in order to address calls from the Georgia Ports Authority for an increase in the bridge's 185-foot clearance, also known as aircraft.
https://www.ajc.com/politics/elevation-of-savannahs-talmadge-bridge-inches-forward/Q7I2LUJ6KVE7BIHMMTTF4UTSUQ/
+ They also want to deepen the now 47 foot depth of the harbor.
More from the GPB article
Quote
Only after that project is complete could harbor deepening begin, in a process involving state and federal agencies that Lynch said would be achievable in nine or ten years and which would lower the river floor by roughly three to five feet.
At a current depth of 47 feet, the harbor underwent a roughly 25-year-long deepening project that finished in 2023, which has made it possible for the port to accommodate vessels carrying as much as 16,000 twenty-foot equivalent units (TEUs) of container cargo.
Further deepening would allow it to handle ships hauling up to 22,000 TEUs.
https://www.gpb.org/news/2023/10/13/raise-the-bridge-deepen-the-harbor-savannah-port-leader-says-more-room-needed-for
https://www.flgov.com/2023/12/05/governor-ron-desantis-announces-the-focus-on-floridas-future-budget-recommendations-for-fiscal-year-2024-2025/
QuoteTo support Florida's transportation network and infrastructure, the Focus on Florida's Future Budget invests:
$14.5 billion for the state transportation work program to construct and maintain Florida's transportation network.
$630 million for the 2nd phase of the Moving Florida Forward Initiative, expediting 20 projects to relieve traffic congestion.
$75 million for Florida's ports, logistics centers and fuel pipelines, including vertiport development.
$25 million to expand the Truck Parking Improvement Program to increase the number of parking spots available in Florida to cargo- hauling large trucks.
I'd have to agree with you Charles. $75M was our annual investment for all Florida ports in 2024-2025. Georgia? More than 5x that figure, for a state with 1/4 the annual budget. $14.5B on the fun stuff lol...
Quote$14.5 billion for the state transportation work program to construct and maintain Florida's transportation network.
Does this number include SIS facilities or railroads?
I think the $14.5 B is just Highways, including the SIS, but not Railroads.
From the FDOT Work Program (Budget) site for Fiscal Year 2024
In millions
$14,023 - Highways
$ 3,371 - Turnpike
$ 19 - Fixed Capital Outlay
$ 29 - Research and Testing
$ 183 - Transportation Planning
$ 635 - Florida Rail Enterprise
$ 2,982 - FLP Transit (FLP = Freight, Logistics, and Passenger Operations)
$ 1,044 - FLP Aviation
$ 185 - FLP Rail
$ 336 - FLP Seaports
$ 126 - FLP Intermodal
$ 18 - FLP Multimodal
$ 64 - Transportation Disadvantaged
$ 12,675 - Miscellaneous
$ 913 - Maintenance
$ 36,604 - TOTAL
And, no, I don't know what that $12+ B for "Miscellaneous" is. It seems to be funds on projects elsewhere in the Work Program that, for come reason, are listed as "Non-System Specific" (even if they are on a system).
Quote from: Charles Hunter on April 17, 2024, 03:59:08 PM
I think the $14.5 B is just Highways, including the SIS, but not Railroads.
From the FDOT Work Program (Budget) site for Fiscal Year 2024
In millions
$14,023 - Highways
$ 3,371 - Turnpike
$ 19 - Fixed Capital Outlay
$ 29 - Research and Testing
$ 183 - Transportation Planning
$ 635 - Florida Rail Enterprise
$ 2,982 - FLP Transit (FLP = Freight, Logistics, and Passenger Operations)
$ 1,044 - FLP Aviation
$ 185 - FLP Rail
$ 336 - FLP Seaports
$ 126 - FLP Intermodal
$ 18 - FLP Multimodal
$ 64 - Transportation Disadvantaged
$ 12,675 - Miscellaneous
$ 913 - Maintenance
$ 36,604 - TOTAL
And, no, I don't know what that $12+ B for "Miscellaneous" is. It seems to be funds on projects elsewhere in the Work Program that, for come reason, are listed as "Non-System Specific" (even if they are on a system).
That $12+B on "Miscellaneous" is wild.
Just to add another twist to this discussion, one article I found also reviewed airports as "ports" for cargo:
Top 10 Busiest USA Cargo Ports
Rank Airport Name Location Cargo (in lbs)
1 Memship International Airport Memphis, Tennessee 21,891,425,638
2 Ted Stevens Anchorage International Airport Anchorage, Alaska 14,982,410,652
3 Louisville International Airport Louisville, Kentucky 11,264,596,650
4 O'Hare International Airport Chicago, Illinois 6,864,249,348
5 Miami International Airport Miami, Florida 6,847,177,300
6 Indianapolis International Airport Indianapolis, Indiana 5,268,916,355
7 Los Angeles International Airport Los Angeles, California 4,199,375,809
8 Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport Cincinnati, Ohio 3,422,731,214
9 John F. Kennedy International Airport New York, New York 3,372,770,377
10 Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport Fort Worth, Texas 3,062,528,160
The same article had this to say about Savannah's port:
QuoteThe Port of Savannah is the fourth largest port in North America and the #16 busiest port in the world. The port is located in Savannah, Georgia.
The Port of Savannah is important for freight trucking because it is a major gateway for imports from both Asia and Europe to the US. In addition, the port also handles a significant amount of containerized freight from other ports on the East Coast of the United States.
What makes this port unique is that it is one of the few deepwater ports on the East Coast of the United States that can accommodate large container ships. In 2020, the Port of Savannah shipped 2.4 million TEU.
https://cowtownexpress.com/blog/top-largest-us-ports-major-usa-cargo-hubs-guide
Another article had this to say about Savannah's advantages:
QuoteSavannah Port is home to the biggest single-terminal container area, one of its kind in North America. It includes two deepwater terminals called the Garden City Terminal and the Ocean Terminal.
The Garden City Terminal is the 4th busiest container handling facility in the U.S, covering over 1200 acres and handling millions of tonnes of containerised cargo each year.
The Ocean Terminal is the port's breakbulk and RORO facility, spanning 201 acres. It also has over 1.4 million square feet of covered storage area.
The natural landlocked harbour 15 nautical miles up the Savannah River from the Atlantic Ocean is operated by the Georgia Ports Authority. Apart from these 2 terminals, there are many private berth operators and a Free Trade Zone.
Savannah Port imports sugar, cement, textiles, ores, steel, machines, petroleum products, forest products, gypsum and exports kaolin clay, vegetable oil and grain oil seed, scrap iron, peanuts, wood pulp, paper and machines used in agriculture.
Approximately 2100 ships, 2,950,000 TEUs and 26,100,000 tonnes of cargo are handled at the Georgia Ports annually.
As a major east coast port, Savannah is undergoing repairs to increase its handling capacity. It is improving its intermodal system to increase its market share of the midwest and make it a preferred choice for many and much more cost-efficient.
https://www.marineinsight.com/know-more/major-u-s-east-coast-ports/
Then there is this:
QuoteGeorgia Port Expanding to Become Country's Largest Auto Port
Expansion Projects Will Push Port of Brunswick Past Baltimore as Top US Automobile Port
JEKYLL ISLAND, Ga. — The Port of Brunswick's ascent as one of the United States' leading hubs for automobile imports and exports over the last decade has threatened to outpace the facility's capacity.
Not anymore.
During the annual Brunswick State of the Ports luncheon on Oct. 30, Georgia Ports Authority CEO Griff Lynch highlighted expansion projects that will allow Brunswick to surpass the Port of Baltimore as the nation's top port for roll-on, roll-off cargo as early as 2026. The improvements include the addition of a fourth ship berth at Brunswick's main terminal at Colonel's Island and a widening and deepening of the Brunswick harbor.
"We will be the No. 1 port when we stand before you at this event in 2026," Lynch told members of the Brunswick Golden Isles Chamber of Commerce at the Jekyll Island Convention Center. "That's not meant as a way for us to bang on our chests, it's to stimulate our economy and the state's economy."
The Port of Brunswick and other ports authority facilities support 561,000 jobs and contribute $59 billion annually to the state's gross domestic product, a study by the University of Georgia showed.
Brunswick is one of two coastal seaports in the Georgia Ports Authority. Brunswick handles automobiles, heavy equipment and other wheeled vehicles along with breakbulk cargo, or goods too large to fit into shipping containers. The Port of Savannah is GPA's container port and ranks as the third-busiest in the country.
Even with the focus on Brunswick, the Port of Savannah was top of mind. Gov. Brian Kemp issued letters on Oct. 30 addressed to each member of Georgia's congressional delegation expressing support for a Savannah River deepening study.
Georgia Ports officials have asked Congress to authorize the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to explore a widening and deepening of the Savannah shipping channel as part of the 2024 Water Resources Development Act.
"GPA is vital to our national supply chain and as a job creator for our state. It is critical we work together to ensure GPA can continue to accommodate ever-larger container vessels calling on our ports," Kemp wrote.
The federal government is investing in the Brunswick harbor. Rep. Buddy Carter (R-Ga.) told attendees at the Oct. 30 luncheon the U.S. House has included nearly $20 million for Brunswick in an appropriations bill passed in recent days.
According to Lynch, the Brunswick channel has not been at the proper depth or width "for years now." The federal dollars pledged should allow the harbor modification project to begin in fall 2024 and be completed in 2026.
The improvements should coincide with Brunswick passing Baltimore as the nation's busiest roll-on, roll-off port. Brunswick cargo growth rate has nearly tripled Baltimore's since 2012, including an 18% increase in the fiscal year that ended June 30. Brunswick handled a record 723,500 vehicles.
Expansion projects now underway will boost the Georgia terminal's capacity to 1.4 million vehicles. The planned fourth ship berth is in the engineering stage and is designed to accommodate the largest roll-on, roll-off ships, those that transport 7,000 vehicles at a time. Once completed, the berth equates to two more vessel calls each week, Lynch said.
The expansion is meant to handle continued traffic growth as well as roll-on, roll-off ships that previously called on Ocean Terminal at the Port of Savannah. That facility is being converted into a container terminal, and 19,000 cars processed annually through Ocean Terminal will be rerouted to Brunswick.
By the end of the year, all auto freight through the Georgia Ports Authority will pass through Brunswick.
"By concentrating on containers in Savannah and autos and machinery in Brunswick, we are able to streamline our operations and provide more efficient service to both of our main business sectors as cargo volumes continue to grow," Lynch said.
Brunswick is utilized by 23 carmakers, with the bulk of the business coming from Hyundai, Kia, Mercedes, Nissan and Subaru. Three-quarters of the cars handled are imports, although two auto assembly plants currently under construction in the state will feed into Brunswick's export business.
The Hyundai Metaplant near Savannah is to begin production in late 2024 or early 2025 while a Rivian factory near Social Circle is expected to open in 2026.
Georgia Ports officials could not forecast the increase in business related to those facilities, citing guidance from the automakers that much of the autos produced in Georgia will be for domestic sale.
Brunswick is due to receive an influx of vehicle imports from two ports on Mexico's east coast: Altamira and Veracruz. Nissan and Kia operate manufacturing facilities near Altamira while Volkswagen makes cars near Veracruz. Ocean carrier and ports customer CMA-CGM established a service route in July, and another freight titan, Gold Star, will begin transporting autos to Brunswick in November.
This Mexico-to-the-U.S. "nearshoring" trend, combined with an increase in the supply of roll-on, roll-off ships, should push Brunswick's automobile throughput to 1 million vehicles a year by 2030, Lynch said.
https://www.ttnews.com/articles/port-brunswick-expanding
Quote from: Charles Hunter on April 17, 2024, 03:59:08 PM
I think the $14.5 B is just Highways, including the SIS, but not Railroads.
From the FDOT Work Program (Budget) site for Fiscal Year 2024
In millions
$14,023 - Highways
$ 3,371 - Turnpike
$ 19 - Fixed Capital Outlay
$ 29 - Research and Testing
$ 183 - Transportation Planning
$ 635 - Florida Rail Enterprise
$ 2,982 - FLP Transit (FLP = Freight, Logistics, and Passenger Operations)
$ 1,044 - FLP Aviation
$ 185 - FLP Rail
$ 336 - FLP Seaports
$ 126 - FLP Intermodal
$ 18 - FLP Multimodal
$ 64 - Transportation Disadvantaged
$ 12,675 - Miscellaneous
$ 913 - Maintenance
$ 36,604 - TOTAL
And, no, I don't know what that $12+ B for "Miscellaneous" is. It seems to be funds on projects elsewhere in the Work Program that, for come reason, are listed as "Non-System Specific" (even if they are on a system).
Am I reading this wrong or has FDOT really budgeted just $820 million for rail compared to $17 billion for highways?
iMarvin, you are correct
^The highways are owned and maintained by FDOT. Most of our rail lines are privately owned.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on April 17, 2024, 10:30:25 PM
Just to add another twist to this discussion, one article I found also reviewed airports as "ports" for cargo:
Top 10 Busiest USA Cargo Ports
Rank Airport Name Location Cargo (in lbs)
1 Memship International Airport Memphis, Tennessee 21,891,425,638
2 Ted Stevens Anchorage International Airport Anchorage, Alaska 14,982,410,652
3 Louisville International Airport Louisville, Kentucky 11,264,596,650
4 O'Hare International Airport Chicago, Illinois 6,864,249,348
5 Miami International Airport Miami, Florida 6,847,177,300
6 Indianapolis International Airport Indianapolis, Indiana 5,268,916,355
7 Los Angeles International Airport Los Angeles, California 4,199,375,809
8 Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport Cincinnati, Ohio 3,422,731,214
9 John F. Kennedy International Airport New York, New York 3,372,770,377
10 Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport Fort Worth, Texas 3,062,528,160
The same article had this to say about Savannah's port:
QuoteThe Port of Savannah is the fourth largest port in North America and the #16 busiest port in the world. The port is located in Savannah, Georgia.
The Port of Savannah is important for freight trucking because it is a major gateway for imports from both Asia and Europe to the US. In addition, the port also handles a significant amount of containerized freight from other ports on the East Coast of the United States.
What makes this port unique is that it is one of the few deepwater ports on the East Coast of the United States that can accommodate large container ships. In 2020, the Port of Savannah shipped 2.4 million TEU.
https://cowtownexpress.com/blog/top-largest-us-ports-major-usa-cargo-hubs-guide
Another article had this to say about Savannah's advantages:
QuoteSavannah Port is home to the biggest single-terminal container area, one of its kind in North America. It includes two deepwater terminals called the Garden City Terminal and the Ocean Terminal.
The Garden City Terminal is the 4th busiest container handling facility in the U.S, covering over 1200 acres and handling millions of tonnes of containerised cargo each year.
The Ocean Terminal is the port's breakbulk and RORO facility, spanning 201 acres. It also has over 1.4 million square feet of covered storage area.
The natural landlocked harbour 15 nautical miles up the Savannah River from the Atlantic Ocean is operated by the Georgia Ports Authority. Apart from these 2 terminals, there are many private berth operators and a Free Trade Zone.
Savannah Port imports sugar, cement, textiles, ores, steel, machines, petroleum products, forest products, gypsum and exports kaolin clay, vegetable oil and grain oil seed, scrap iron, peanuts, wood pulp, paper and machines used in agriculture.
Approximately 2100 ships, 2,950,000 TEUs and 26,100,000 tonnes of cargo are handled at the Georgia Ports annually.
As a major east coast port, Savannah is undergoing repairs to increase its handling capacity. It is improving its intermodal system to increase its market share of the midwest and make it a preferred choice for many and much more cost-efficient.
https://www.marineinsight.com/know-more/major-u-s-east-coast-ports/
Then there is this:
QuoteGeorgia Port Expanding to Become Country's Largest Auto Port
Expansion Projects Will Push Port of Brunswick Past Baltimore as Top US Automobile Port
JEKYLL ISLAND, Ga. — The Port of Brunswick's ascent as one of the United States' leading hubs for automobile imports and exports over the last decade has threatened to outpace the facility's capacity.
Not anymore.
During the annual Brunswick State of the Ports luncheon on Oct. 30, Georgia Ports Authority CEO Griff Lynch highlighted expansion projects that will allow Brunswick to surpass the Port of Baltimore as the nation's top port for roll-on, roll-off cargo as early as 2026. The improvements include the addition of a fourth ship berth at Brunswick's main terminal at Colonel's Island and a widening and deepening of the Brunswick harbor.
"We will be the No. 1 port when we stand before you at this event in 2026," Lynch told members of the Brunswick Golden Isles Chamber of Commerce at the Jekyll Island Convention Center. "That's not meant as a way for us to bang on our chests, it's to stimulate our economy and the state's economy."
The Port of Brunswick and other ports authority facilities support 561,000 jobs and contribute $59 billion annually to the state's gross domestic product, a study by the University of Georgia showed.
Brunswick is one of two coastal seaports in the Georgia Ports Authority. Brunswick handles automobiles, heavy equipment and other wheeled vehicles along with breakbulk cargo, or goods too large to fit into shipping containers. The Port of Savannah is GPA's container port and ranks as the third-busiest in the country.
Even with the focus on Brunswick, the Port of Savannah was top of mind. Gov. Brian Kemp issued letters on Oct. 30 addressed to each member of Georgia's congressional delegation expressing support for a Savannah River deepening study.
Georgia Ports officials have asked Congress to authorize the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to explore a widening and deepening of the Savannah shipping channel as part of the 2024 Water Resources Development Act.
"GPA is vital to our national supply chain and as a job creator for our state. It is critical we work together to ensure GPA can continue to accommodate ever-larger container vessels calling on our ports," Kemp wrote.
The federal government is investing in the Brunswick harbor. Rep. Buddy Carter (R-Ga.) told attendees at the Oct. 30 luncheon the U.S. House has included nearly $20 million for Brunswick in an appropriations bill passed in recent days.
According to Lynch, the Brunswick channel has not been at the proper depth or width "for years now." The federal dollars pledged should allow the harbor modification project to begin in fall 2024 and be completed in 2026.
The improvements should coincide with Brunswick passing Baltimore as the nation's busiest roll-on, roll-off port. Brunswick cargo growth rate has nearly tripled Baltimore's since 2012, including an 18% increase in the fiscal year that ended June 30. Brunswick handled a record 723,500 vehicles.
Expansion projects now underway will boost the Georgia terminal's capacity to 1.4 million vehicles. The planned fourth ship berth is in the engineering stage and is designed to accommodate the largest roll-on, roll-off ships, those that transport 7,000 vehicles at a time. Once completed, the berth equates to two more vessel calls each week, Lynch said.
The expansion is meant to handle continued traffic growth as well as roll-on, roll-off ships that previously called on Ocean Terminal at the Port of Savannah. That facility is being converted into a container terminal, and 19,000 cars processed annually through Ocean Terminal will be rerouted to Brunswick.
By the end of the year, all auto freight through the Georgia Ports Authority will pass through Brunswick.
"By concentrating on containers in Savannah and autos and machinery in Brunswick, we are able to streamline our operations and provide more efficient service to both of our main business sectors as cargo volumes continue to grow," Lynch said.
Brunswick is utilized by 23 carmakers, with the bulk of the business coming from Hyundai, Kia, Mercedes, Nissan and Subaru. Three-quarters of the cars handled are imports, although two auto assembly plants currently under construction in the state will feed into Brunswick's export business.
The Hyundai Metaplant near Savannah is to begin production in late 2024 or early 2025 while a Rivian factory near Social Circle is expected to open in 2026.
Georgia Ports officials could not forecast the increase in business related to those facilities, citing guidance from the automakers that much of the autos produced in Georgia will be for domestic sale.
Brunswick is due to receive an influx of vehicle imports from two ports on Mexico's east coast: Altamira and Veracruz. Nissan and Kia operate manufacturing facilities near Altamira while Volkswagen makes cars near Veracruz. Ocean carrier and ports customer CMA-CGM established a service route in July, and another freight titan, Gold Star, will begin transporting autos to Brunswick in November.
This Mexico-to-the-U.S. "nearshoring" trend, combined with an increase in the supply of roll-on, roll-off ships, should push Brunswick's automobile throughput to 1 million vehicles a year by 2030, Lynch said.
https://www.ttnews.com/articles/port-brunswick-expanding
Yeah this is the icing on the cake with the cherry on top... and this project is exactly what I was afraid of. The inability for local/state/federal officials to grow JaxPort, is allowing a port, not 130 miles away, but only 70 miles away to grow to become the largest automobile port in the country. Ironically, what is JaxPort's #1 import & export? You guessed it, automobiles.
I think through the resources put forth in this thread, it can be
very easily concluded that the lack of growth for JaxPort compared to GPA has been caused by (primarily) state oversight. There is very clearly a market, and we are very clearly allowing the GPA to take all of that new business.
There are great projects located in JaxPort now, and I'm sure those individuals employed are doing all they can to drive growth. I commend JaxPort for being able to grow as much as it has. Nonetheless, the way our tax & legal systems are setup, you absolutely need support on all levels to create meaningful changes.
Interesting article on the Port of Virginia in Norfolk. Only U.S. East Coast port that can handle side-by-side at once 20,000 TEU mega-ships with drafts to 55 feet. And, reading the article, their port is ahead in other respects too.
QuoteInside the Port of Virginia's $450 million plan to lead in era of super-sized ocean containerships
The Port of Virginia is on track to become the functionally widest and deepest port on the U.S. East Coast by early 2025, as massive ocean containerships upend the economics of port terminals. Norfolk Harbor will be the only waterway channel on the East Coast with Congressional authorization for 55-foot depth from end to end and side to side. While there are channels on the East Coast that are wider than the Port of Virginia, they are not uniformly deep from end to end and side to side, regardless of tide.
A $450 million dredging project at the Port of Virginia, which began in 2019, completed its widening measures in March, allowing two ultra-large container vessels (ULCVs) to pass each other at the same time. An ultra-large containership can carry over 20,000 twenty-foot equivalent (TEU) cargo units. The dredging project is expected to be completed in Fall 2025, making the Port of Virginia the deepest and widest harbor on the East Coast. Once completed, Virginia will have unrestricted vessel size access, with two of these super-sized containerships able to move through the channel at once.
"Ultra-large container vessels have challenged every port," said Stephen Edwards, CEO of the Port of Virginia. He explained that these ships reduce ports to a one-way traffic system — when a ship leaves the port it has to go all the way out of the channel before the next one can come in.
"We make our money turning ships on the berth. We don't make our money as they transit in and out," Edwards said. The completion of the project "means we can turn that berth quicker. We can gain capacity on and off that berth," Edwards added.
The expansion will aid the port's relationship with multiple industries.
"Whether that's the coal trade, whether that's the cruise market or military, we can start getting those two-way transits to be that much more efficient as a whole," Edwards said.
The wider shipping channel is reducing the time vessels stay at the port by up to 15%. It's also cutting emissions from ships idling while waiting for the channel to clear.
The $450 million channel deepening project is part of the $ 1.4 billion the port is spending to modernize operations and add capacity. It is still in the process of adding more ship berths and cranes to handle the ultra-large vessels. New, taller cranes are needed to move more containers off these ships, while the total number of berths, now two (one at each port terminal), will be expanded to five. The port is presently the sixth-largest port in the U.S. It's also home to the world's largest naval base, and shipbuilding and repair industrial base.
"About one in 10, one in nine jobs within the Commonwealth, have activity attached to what we do," Edwards said. "A lot of them are direct employees. Our goal is to grow the gateway which consists of all the road networks and logistics businesses within Virginia."
Container volumes are 7% above 2020 levels, and the port has seen significant growth in the first quarter of 2024. Goods are increasingly coming from South and Southeast Asia, instead of Northeast Asia, with their strongest growth coming from India. It has Walmart, Lowe's and other top retailers as some of its primary customers, with home improvement products such as marble, and garment manufacturing, among top products arriving at the port.
The India to East Coast trade has been impacted by the Houthi attacks on vessels in the Red Sea, with major ocean carriers now avoiding the Suez Canal and are instead going around the Cape of Good Hope, a longer trip. Edwards said while trade has settled into a predictable pattern, the port is keeping a close eye on the cost of fuel.
"We haven't seen any degradation of volume," he said. "We expect it will stay that way and as long as fuel prices stay reasonable, when you offset the cost of the Suez Canal transit against that voyage cost, it is not too detrimental."
But if fuel prices spike, the economics will change. Maersk, the world's second-largest ocean carrier, said in its recent earnings report that the Red Sea disruptions could last until the end of 2024.....
.....On the rail side, the port has also been expanding with its central rail yard expansion expected to be completed by the end of this year. D'Andrae Larry, head of intermodal at Uber Freight, said the strategic development of rail capacity at the Port of Virginia has driven a steadily increasing amount of volume off of ships and into port facilities.
"Throughput is the holy grail for ports," Larry said. "Over the years, the Port of Virginia has expanded and upgraded the technology and operating model for its central railyard. By building an efficient and flexible model early on, the port was able to be a go-to option for demand that moved away from Baltimore."
At the same time, port states need to invest in roads and bridges to keep the flow of trade moving. The Commonwealth of Virginia has invested more than $5 billion in its tunnels, highways, and bridges to receive more freight and commuters. Edwards said these improvements, which include three project partnerships with the Virginia Department of Transportation, will add efficiency and facilitate the movement of the increased cargo capacity......
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/05/09/port-of-virginia-has-a-big-plan-to-be-no-1-for-super-size-ocean-ships.html
^Norfolk's port is significantly larger than JAXPORT. Like Savannah, their port is one of two for the state of Virginia. It's also heavily financed by the military.