QuoteUniversity of North Florida officials are nursing dramatic plans to grow enrollment by nearly 50 percent over five years, reaching 25,000 students by 2028.
They've embraced the first new on-campus housing construction in 15 years, a 521-bed dorm for honors students, as a sign of changes to come.
"We want UNF to be the destination of choice. ... Today, we are starting the work," UNF President Moez Limayem told supporters at a ceremonial groundbreaking last week for the four-story, roughly 165,000-square-foot residence hall that's already under construction, slated to open in the fall of 2025.
Full article: https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/education/2024/02/14/unf-aims-to-have-25000-students-by-2028-near-50-growth-over-5-years/72514082007/
We can only hope future governors and legislatures will reverse the DeSantisization of the State University System, so students will want to come here.
This originally came up in another thread last year:
https://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,37704.0.html
Jacksonville certainly has room for more college students, and having two larger state universities (plus growing JU and FSCJ) could really help expand the profile of the city. But like Charles says, the state's recent treatment of higher education seems likely to have a depressing effect for both students and faculty. Maybe that will turn around one day, but until then I think one is increasingly hard-pressed to want to learn or teach in Florida as opposed to elsewhere. No income tax or (constantly under threat of cuts) Bright Futures can only go so far.
Being the chair of a search right now, candidates are really concerned. The problem is, we don't see how many choose to not apply.
Thanks, marcus, for mentioning that the Hillsdale model will also drive away existing and deter new quality instructors from working in the DeSantis Anti-Woke college system. A lack of quality instructors will further disincentivize prospective students. Of course, the MAGAts will claim it will draw "non-woke" instructors and students, but is that a good thing?
Quote from: Charles Hunter on February 14, 2024, 05:56:08 PM
Of course, the MAGAts will claim it will draw "non-woke" instructors and students, but is that a good thing?
Yes. Y'all don't even seem to know how tired people are of wokism, and people are really starting to see and feel the effects of it. Trans ideology is finally on the downswing (we are going to look back on this era of trans hysteria and a senile walking dead man as president and think WTF happened, what kind of poison from hell led to all of this). Employers and fellow employees of older persuasions and times have seen the effects of wokism on the latest crop of applicants and workers. It's just a disaster all around.
Yes, we are tired of it and want a return to normalcy, eg a return to 15 years ago mentalities and before. By the way, race relations were relatively great in the late 90s and into the 2000s. We welcome a return to that as well, but wokism threatens relations of all sorts, creating victim classes and amping up victim mentalities and pitting people against each other.
It's amazing how you all truly are believers and adherents to these ideologies and you literally can't see how terrible things have gotten culturally in this country with the advent of wokism and everything attached to it, and how tired people are of it.
Droves of people are moving to FL, away from NY, IL, CA and other states. What could you possibly mean there won't be anyone looking to fill woke professorships with normalcy?
And if we have gotten to a point where 90% of all professors in academia are woke, yes, it would be better to not have them at all than to have them indoctrinating future generations to hate this country and fall prey to all sorts of evil and degenerate ideologies. There are plenty of lucrative trades that involve skills that can make people money without having to take gender studies classes in some university.
On a separate note, I always thought UNF should be larger and compete with UCF and USF. It holds Jax back to have it so small.
But we need to ensure it grows with technical degrees in engineering, business, computer science, etc, not with liberal arts degrees.
I dunno man, I was at a state university not that long ago and a lot of the hysteria seemed obviously overplayed then. Unless you're trying to say that somehow this only actually became a problem between 2021 when I graduated and now, I don't think the evidence really backs what you're claiming. Some people are trans, that's not a big deal. It's their life, not mine. I know plenty and they seem a lot happier being themselves than trying to cover that up to satisfy someone else.
The idea of using state power in a desperate attempt to rewind culture to 15 years ago sounds patently absurd. And willing to burn our education system to the ground if it means you feel you've punished or pushed out people you don't agree with seems like a bad way to keep a place competitive long-term. It's not like it's proving more economical to pull these stunts either, look at how much more Richard Corcoran is being paid at New College over his predecessor, or Ben Sasse at UF compared to his predecessor. I don't see the value of ruining a perfectly fine thing for an ideological project against a minority of people when we have so many real, bigger problems in this state.
100% depends where you went to school. Not going to elaborate but what simms described 100% for fact exists in many states. Maybe not in Florida, that I don't know, but nationwide this is a growing trend in many states. My faculty was close to 100% "woke" and they were very outward about that, & I'm not reading into anything by stating that. Since, the few non-tenured folks have surprisingly not had their contracts renewed overtime.
Also, close to 30% of my tuition went towards DEI salary & budget. I'm not against DEI, but 30%? I think there needs to be some light casted on the schools taking advantage of these programs & inflating college tuition. Again, can't speak on the greater UF system as I never attended.
Quote from: simms3 on February 16, 2024, 10:20:02 AM
On a separate note, I always thought UNF should be larger and compete with UCF and USF. It holds Jax back to have it so small.
But we need to ensure it grows with technical degrees in engineering, business, computer science, etc, not with liberal arts degrees.
Pulled some numbers.
Definitely the slowest growth in the 21st century of the major Florida universities.
Glad to see UNF finally make a major growth push. Sky is the limit there, and hopefully many of UNF's new graduates choose Jax long-term.
Just need to hope DeSantis doesn't do long-term damage with HB 999.
(https://snipboard.io/WYINkZ.jpg)
QuoteAlso, close to 30% of my tuition went towards DEI salary & budget. I'm not against DEI, but 30%? I think there needs to be some light casted on the schools taking advantage of these programs & inflating college tuition.
Just curious, but what do you mean by DEI salaries?
Quote from: Jax_Developer on February 16, 2024, 12:54:42 PM
100% depends where you went to school. Not going to elaborate but what simms described 100% for fact exists in many states. Maybe not in Florida, that I don't know, but nationwide this is a growing trend in many states. My faculty was close to 100% "woke" and they were very outward about that, & I'm not reading into anything by stating that. Since, the few non-tenured folks have surprisingly not had their contracts renewed overtime.
Also, close to 30% of my tuition went towards DEI salary & budget. I'm not against DEI, but 30%? I think there needs to be some light casted on the schools taking advantage of these programs & inflating college tuition. Again, can't speak on the greater UF system as I never attended.
I went to a state HBCU. How would DEI be defined there?
Quote from: marcuscnelson on February 16, 2024, 12:33:35 PM
I dunno man, I was at a state university not that long ago and a lot of the hysteria seemed obviously overplayed then. Unless you're trying to say that somehow this only actually became a problem between 2021 when I graduated and now, I don't think the evidence really backs what you're claiming. Some people are trans, that's not a big deal. It's their life, not mine. I know plenty and they seem a lot happier being themselves than trying to cover that up to satisfy someone else.
The idea of using state power in a desperate attempt to rewind culture to 15 years ago sounds patently absurd. And willing to burn our education system to the ground if it means you feel you've punished or pushed out people you don't agree with seems like a bad way to keep a place competitive long-term. It's not like it's proving more economical to pull these stunts either, look at how much more Richard Corcoran is being paid at New College over his predecessor, or Ben Sasse at UF compared to his predecessor. I don't see the value of ruining a perfectly fine thing for an ideological project against a minority of people when we have so many real, bigger problems in this state.
^This. The state's various social engineering efforts are absolutely hurting our university system in all sorts of ways, which had become one of our strongest points. It's much harder to recruit and keep good faculty and staff, and everyone I know from the Florida state university and college systems says it's only getting worse. And while the architects of these moves hoped there'd be some mass influx of right wing professors, it hasn't happened.
I know that trans kids are a huge boogeyman for right wingers, but they're a small minority of people. It's truly nuts how much the state is doing and how much money and effort they're wasting just to hurt such a small group of people.
The anti-diversity push is also just another boogeyman. I doubt there's any college in the world that has spent 30% of their money "toward DEI salary & budget". At UNF, last year we spent $3.5 million on all our diversity initiatives combined. Our total budget was $352 million. That's less that 1%. We had only 15 diversity-related positions out of 1,765 faculty and staff. Yes, really. Just a total waste for no gain.
What we'll lose is a lot more than that. UNF, Jacksonville and Florida are increasingly diverse, which was the real aim of our diversity initiatives -- making it so our diverse student body had the resources they needed to be successful in college. Most people don't have a problem with, for instance, financial aid, which has the same aim -- making college attainable for working and middle class students. Our LGBT Center was a real gem, the best in the state, and it made UNF a mecca for LGBTQ students. Now, LGBTQ students are increasingly fleeing Florida because the state government decided to use them to score political points.
Combine that with the state's assault on academic freedom at college, its actions on the grade school level with the book bans, attacks on teachers, etc., we're in a very bad place for education in the state of Florida. I have no doubt much of this insanity will be reversed in the future, but the damage will be done.
I went to a university that is famous for being one of the most "liberal" in the U.S. That said, I found the students inherently leaned that way. I never saw professors or administrators heavily involved in "liberal" student causes. They mostly had their hands full teaching, researching and trying to balance their budgets. Overall, they just let students be students by offering minimal interference and a welcoming and open environment.
It is a natural part of "growing up" that each "new" generation wants to sow some wild oats before going into the real world. Most young people in college aren't jaded yet, haven't lived much of life's experiences, aren't tethered to money, are away from family for their first time, have few responsibilities for others, still have some of that teenager rebellious streak in them, etc. So, no surprise, they test the boundaries of thought, behavior and social norms being so unencumbered and free of "adult" supervision. I know plenty of "conservatives" that were as wild and free as anyone in college and changed over time. And, many idealistic college "liberals" may stick to their basic ideals but learn to work within the mainstream to advocate for their agendas. It is all called "growing up."
So, my perspective is "wokeness" (whatever that is, exactly) is a natural occurrence on college campuses and, short of brainwashing, isn't going away with bringing in a "non-woke" faculty and curriculum. Instead, many students will lean toward a campus environment that lets them express their new found individuality. These may be the same students who are most curious, creative, passionate and dedicated to advancing our world after they graduate. They aren't likely to come to a location that gets in their way of so being creating a brain drain. Want to see what stifling free thinking does? Check out Russia and China's brain drains. Florida will have "good" company.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on February 16, 2024, 03:04:10 PM
QuoteAlso, close to 30% of my tuition went towards DEI salary & budget. I'm not against DEI, but 30%? I think there needs to be some light casted on the schools taking advantage of these programs & inflating college tuition.
Just curious, but what do you mean by DEI salaries?
Support departments for the school that advocate for DEI efforts. This group includes a lot of faculty members at my school that: a) Had no role in the classroom & b) Had no role in the administrative efforts of my college. We had assistants to assistants managers making $100k in departments like "office of equality." Clubs at my school with a DEI focus, had annual budgets that made some sports teams on campus question how that was even possible. All of this 'spending' data for my school, and I believe any other federally funded school, is all online.
Quote from: thelakelander on February 16, 2024, 04:14:23 PM
Quote from: Jax_Developer on February 16, 2024, 12:54:42 PM
100% depends where you went to school. Not going to elaborate but what simms described 100% for fact exists in many states. Maybe not in Florida, that I don't know, but nationwide this is a growing trend in many states. My faculty was close to 100% "woke" and they were very outward about that, & I'm not reading into anything by stating that. Since, the few non-tenured folks have surprisingly not had their contracts renewed overtime.
Also, close to 30% of my tuition went towards DEI salary & budget. I'm not against DEI, but 30%? I think there needs to be some light casted on the schools taking advantage of these programs & inflating college tuition. Again, can't speak on the greater UF system as I never attended.
I went to a state HBCU. How would DEI be defined there?
HBCU's are an entirely different animal. I went to a PWI, and the DEI focus there didn't result in the diverse environment they were trying to achieve. My point in my statement is that there are colleges out there simply inflating the cost of college at the expense of the tax & tuition payer. The environment in which simms describes is "real" even if it exists outside of Florida.
Quote from: Tacachale on February 16, 2024, 05:20:35 PM
Quote from: marcuscnelson on February 16, 2024, 12:33:35 PM
I dunno man, I was at a state university not that long ago and a lot of the hysteria seemed obviously overplayed then. Unless you're trying to say that somehow this only actually became a problem between 2021 when I graduated and now, I don't think the evidence really backs what you're claiming. Some people are trans, that's not a big deal. It's their life, not mine. I know plenty and they seem a lot happier being themselves than trying to cover that up to satisfy someone else.
The idea of using state power in a desperate attempt to rewind culture to 15 years ago sounds patently absurd. And willing to burn our education system to the ground if it means you feel you've punished or pushed out people you don't agree with seems like a bad way to keep a place competitive long-term. It's not like it's proving more economical to pull these stunts either, look at how much more Richard Corcoran is being paid at New College over his predecessor, or Ben Sasse at UF compared to his predecessor. I don't see the value of ruining a perfectly fine thing for an ideological project against a minority of people when we have so many real, bigger problems in this state.
^This. The state's various social engineering efforts are absolutely hurting our university system in all sorts of ways, which had become one of our strongest points. It's much harder to recruit and keep good faculty and staff, and everyone I know from the Florida state university and college systems says it's only getting worse. And while the architects of these moves hoped there'd be some mass influx of right wing professors, it hasn't happened.
I know that trans kids are a huge boogeyman for right wingers, but they're a small minority of people. It's truly nuts how much the state is doing and how much money and effort they're wasting just to hurt such a small group of people.
The anti-diversity push is also just another boogeyman. I doubt there's any college in the world that has spent 30% of their money "toward DEI salary & budget". At UNF, last year we spent $3.5 million on all our diversity initiatives combined. Our total budget was $352 million. That's less that 1%. We had only 15 diversity-related positions out of 1,765 faculty and staff. Yes, really. Just a total waste for no gain.
What we'll lose is a lot more than that. UNF, Jacksonville and Florida are increasingly diverse, which was the real aim of our diversity initiatives -- making it so our diverse student body had the resources they needed to be successful in college. Most people don't have a problem with, for instance, financial aid, which has the same aim -- making college attainable for working and middle class students. Our LGBT Center was a real gem, the best in the state, and it made UNF a mecca for LGBTQ students. Now, LGBTQ students are increasingly fleeing Florida because the state government decided to use them to score political points.
Combine that with the state's assault on academic freedom at college, its actions on the grade school level with the book bans, attacks on teachers, etc., we're in a very bad place for education in the state of Florida. I have no doubt much of this insanity will be reversed in the future, but the damage will be done.
This is the most "I have lived in Florida my whole life" response I have ever read. Lol. Almost nobody is going to UNF in Jacksonville, FL for LGBTQ services. People goto schools like mine where the support for them is actually world-class. We had a clinic on school with LGBTQ services. You won't find a state school providing anywhere near what a PWI could provide.
Quote from: Jax_Developer on February 17, 2024, 09:20:07 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on February 16, 2024, 05:20:35 PM
Quote from: marcuscnelson on February 16, 2024, 12:33:35 PM
I dunno man, I was at a state university not that long ago and a lot of the hysteria seemed obviously overplayed then. Unless you're trying to say that somehow this only actually became a problem between 2021 when I graduated and now, I don't think the evidence really backs what you're claiming. Some people are trans, that's not a big deal. It's their life, not mine. I know plenty and they seem a lot happier being themselves than trying to cover that up to satisfy someone else.
The idea of using state power in a desperate attempt to rewind culture to 15 years ago sounds patently absurd. And willing to burn our education system to the ground if it means you feel you've punished or pushed out people you don't agree with seems like a bad way to keep a place competitive long-term. It's not like it's proving more economical to pull these stunts either, look at how much more Richard Corcoran is being paid at New College over his predecessor, or Ben Sasse at UF compared to his predecessor. I don't see the value of ruining a perfectly fine thing for an ideological project against a minority of people when we have so many real, bigger problems in this state.
^This. The state's various social engineering efforts are absolutely hurting our university system in all sorts of ways, which had become one of our strongest points. It's much harder to recruit and keep good faculty and staff, and everyone I know from the Florida state university and college systems says it's only getting worse. And while the architects of these moves hoped there'd be some mass influx of right wing professors, it hasn't happened.
I know that trans kids are a huge boogeyman for right wingers, but they're a small minority of people. It's truly nuts how much the state is doing and how much money and effort they're wasting just to hurt such a small group of people.
The anti-diversity push is also just another boogeyman. I doubt there's any college in the world that has spent 30% of their money "toward DEI salary & budget". At UNF, last year we spent $3.5 million on all our diversity initiatives combined. Our total budget was $352 million. That's less that 1%. We had only 15 diversity-related positions out of 1,765 faculty and staff. Yes, really. Just a total waste for no gain.
What we'll lose is a lot more than that. UNF, Jacksonville and Florida are increasingly diverse, which was the real aim of our diversity initiatives -- making it so our diverse student body had the resources they needed to be successful in college. Most people don't have a problem with, for instance, financial aid, which has the same aim -- making college attainable for working and middle class students. Our LGBT Center was a real gem, the best in the state, and it made UNF a mecca for LGBTQ students. Now, LGBTQ students are increasingly fleeing Florida because the state government decided to use them to score political points.
Combine that with the state's assault on academic freedom at college, its actions on the grade school level with the book bans, attacks on teachers, etc., we're in a very bad place for education in the state of Florida. I have no doubt much of this insanity will be reversed in the future, but the damage will be done.
This is the most "I have lived in Florida my whole life" response I have ever read. Lol. Almost nobody is going to UNF in Jacksonville, FL for LGBTQ services. People goto schools like mine where the support for them is actually world-class. We had a clinic on school with LGBTQ services. You won't find a state school providing anywhere near what a PWI could provide.
And that is the most obviously elitist response I've read this side of Simms, lol.
I get from your responses that you're fairly young, so I'm not going to dump all over you. I worked at UNF for a long time, including in student affairs and enrollment services. I'm very familiar with the offerings and the student body at UNF and the State University System.
I'm sure your world-class, primarily white private college had great resources. This may come as a shock, but not all kids, including LGBTQ kids, can afford to go out of state to a school like that. And more to the point, if it's out of state and private, it's not affected by the draconian laws happening in Florida.
And while I very much doubt any school is spending 30% of its budget on diversity initiatives, especially when they evidently don't actually have diverse student bodies, your comments about your school get at the real point of this conversation. Politicians in Florida are looking at elitist private schools and the crazy things they supposedly do, and using that as an excuse to bludgeon their own state schools where those things were never happening. Meanwhile, these laws don't affect the elitist private schools or the kids who can afford to go to them. That's a feature, not a bug.
Quote from: Tacachale on February 17, 2024, 10:28:09 AM
Quote from: Jax_Developer on February 17, 2024, 09:20:07 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on February 16, 2024, 05:20:35 PM
Quote from: marcuscnelson on February 16, 2024, 12:33:35 PM
I dunno man, I was at a state university not that long ago and a lot of the hysteria seemed obviously overplayed then. Unless you're trying to say that somehow this only actually became a problem between 2021 when I graduated and now, I don't think the evidence really backs what you're claiming. Some people are trans, that's not a big deal. It's their life, not mine. I know plenty and they seem a lot happier being themselves than trying to cover that up to satisfy someone else.
The idea of using state power in a desperate attempt to rewind culture to 15 years ago sounds patently absurd. And willing to burn our education system to the ground if it means you feel you've punished or pushed out people you don't agree with seems like a bad way to keep a place competitive long-term. It's not like it's proving more economical to pull these stunts either, look at how much more Richard Corcoran is being paid at New College over his predecessor, or Ben Sasse at UF compared to his predecessor. I don't see the value of ruining a perfectly fine thing for an ideological project against a minority of people when we have so many real, bigger problems in this state.
^This. The state's various social engineering efforts are absolutely hurting our university system in all sorts of ways, which had become one of our strongest points. It's much harder to recruit and keep good faculty and staff, and everyone I know from the Florida state university and college systems says it's only getting worse. And while the architects of these moves hoped there'd be some mass influx of right wing professors, it hasn't happened.
I know that trans kids are a huge boogeyman for right wingers, but they're a small minority of people. It's truly nuts how much the state is doing and how much money and effort they're wasting just to hurt such a small group of people.
The anti-diversity push is also just another boogeyman. I doubt there's any college in the world that has spent 30% of their money "toward DEI salary & budget". At UNF, last year we spent $3.5 million on all our diversity initiatives combined. Our total budget was $352 million. That's less that 1%. We had only 15 diversity-related positions out of 1,765 faculty and staff. Yes, really. Just a total waste for no gain.
What we'll lose is a lot more than that. UNF, Jacksonville and Florida are increasingly diverse, which was the real aim of our diversity initiatives -- making it so our diverse student body had the resources they needed to be successful in college. Most people don't have a problem with, for instance, financial aid, which has the same aim -- making college attainable for working and middle class students. Our LGBT Center was a real gem, the best in the state, and it made UNF a mecca for LGBTQ students. Now, LGBTQ students are increasingly fleeing Florida because the state government decided to use them to score political points.
Combine that with the state's assault on academic freedom at college, its actions on the grade school level with the book bans, attacks on teachers, etc., we're in a very bad place for education in the state of Florida. I have no doubt much of this insanity will be reversed in the future, but the damage will be done.
This is the most "I have lived in Florida my whole life" response I have ever read. Lol. Almost nobody is going to UNF in Jacksonville, FL for LGBTQ services. People goto schools like mine where the support for them is actually world-class. We had a clinic on school with LGBTQ services. You won't find a state school providing anywhere near what a PWI could provide.
And that is the most obviously elitist response I've read this side of Simms, lol.
I get from your responses that you're fairly young, so I'm not going to dump all over you. I worked at UNF for a long time, including in student affairs and enrollment services. I'm very familiar with the offerings and the student body at UNF and the State University System.
I'm sure your world-class, primarily white private college had great resources. This may come as a shock, but not all kids, including LGBTQ kids, can afford to go out of state to a school like that. And more to the point, if it's out of state and private, it's not affected by the draconian laws happening in Florida.
And while I very much doubt any school is spending 30% of its budget on diversity initiatives, especially when they evidently don't actually have diverse student bodies, your comments about your school get at the real point of this conversation. Politicians in Florida are looking at elitist private schools and the crazy things they supposedly do, and using that as an excuse to bludgeon their own state schools where those things were never happening. Meanwhile, these laws don't affect the elitist private schools or the kids who can afford to go to them. That's a feature, not a bug.
Elitist? Not going to dump all over me? Reaching for something I guess so you have to make it personal? Classic. Here, I'll go. You're dense & your opinions are so hilariously wrong that I hope you no longer work in higher education.
- "...is the mecca of LGBTQ"
- "At UNF, last year we spent $3.5 million on all our diversity initiatives combined."
- "Most people don't have a problem with, for instance, financial aid, which has the same aim -- making college attainable for working and middle class students"
Get a grip. You are literally contradicting yourself in your own response. The reason why state colleges have lower tuition is because of the lack of support services. Oh, but UNF is the mecca of this stuff with a $3.5M? Maybe, just maybe, you have a bias in place. Maybe residing in one area for so long has distorted your view on reality. Not every school has 10k+ students, with the mindsets of those who work & reside in North Florida. Only 32% of my tuition went towards teaching/academics/instruction.
My response was
SIMPLY on how the idea that these colleges don't exist is just plain wrong. They do! Does that mean I support Desantis? No! Simply put, a balance needs to be achieved. Could the UF system use more funding is this department? Probably, I genuinely don't know. To act like the counter doesn't exist demonstrates a lack of critical thinking.
By implementing more "additional services" you are just adding on expense for those families who want a simple education or certification. I'm sure you don't care though, whatever it takes for UNf to be the Mecca of LGBTQ services. 8)
Maybe work with the Mayor on not making us a bottom 5 city for LGBTQ stuff then you can come on here & comment BS.
Fantastic article by Mark Woods in the Florida Times-Union about this subject:
"And at this point, the idea that maybe the Free State of Florida isn't so free — that 2024 Florida has some "1984" vibes to it — isn't just coming from the left-leaning groups state leaders frequently rail against."
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/columns/2024/02/17/duval-county-schools-unf-plan-for-future-amidst-culture-war-winds/72605913007/
Quote from: Jax_Developer on February 18, 2024, 07:28:12 AM
Get a grip. You are literally contradicting yourself in your own response.
Says the guy who whines about a school over spending on DEI and then touts their world class LBTQ services. Sounds like you support inclusivity for certain people groups but not others.
I had never heard the term PWI until you said it and I'm shocked that somebody would use that term in a non-derogatory way. I attended UF and the diversity of the student population is part of what makes it so competitive and such a good school. I don't think I'd be where I am today without that environment. There were students of other backgrounds who were motivated by the opportunity to change their station in life. They had made it to the top by hard work and they continually had to prove themselves. I admired their motivation and work ethic and it pushed me to try harder.
There are some students who were going to work for their parents after graduation anyway so it didn't matter if they accomplished anything other than building a 2 story beer bong. For the rest of us who wanted to make something of ourselves, it was a grind. We're all better for it and most of my classmates have gone on to be extremely successful. If anything were to take that diversity of the student body away due to students not feeling comfortable or no longer having the support services for their demographic, it would damage the entire college experience and the quality of the graduates.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on February 19, 2024, 12:06:48 PM
Quote from: Jax_Developer on February 18, 2024, 07:28:12 AM
Get a grip. You are literally contradicting yourself in your own response.
Says the guy who whines about a school over spending on DEI and then touts their world class LBTQ services. Sounds like you support inclusivity for certain people groups but not others.
I had never heard the term PWI until you said it and I'm shocked that somebody would use that term in a non-derogatory way. I attended UF and the diversity of the student population is part of what makes it so competitive and such a good school. I don't think I'd be where I am today without that environment. There were students of other backgrounds who were motivated by the opportunity to change their station in life. They had made it to the top by hard work and they continually had to prove themselves. I admired their motivation and work ethic and it pushed me to try harder.
There are some students who were going to work for their parents after graduation anyway so it didn't matter if they accomplished anything other than building a 2 story beer bong. For the rest of us who wanted to make something of ourselves, it was a grind. We're all better for it and most of my classmates have gone on to be extremely successful. If anything were to take that diversity of the student body away due to students not feeling comfortable or no longer having the support services for their demographic, it would damage the entire college experience and the quality of the graduates.
Please, make more generalizations & assumptions. Anyone else is free to get in.
PWI's are not some fancy term I made. It was taught to me. My college was around 60% white in an area that was 30% white. I didn't pick my school for any of the reasons mentioned by you Captain. I picked it because of sports. Lol. During my time there, I was exposed to a world I had no idea about. I was educated on things I otherwise wouldn't have been. I liked my time attending overall.
If you think I care even the slightest about the institutions world-class support for what we are talking about, then you don't know me. I had several friends that did care, and their literal decision criteria did involve all the support they could have at the college. (LGBTQ dorms, spaces, etc.) Unlike my colleagues, I was in the sports environment most of the time which had a very different demographic. There are hundreds of schools very similar to mine & there are several dozen that are just better schools. Mine was not unique unlike what y'all are assuming.
Nonetheless, about a third of our tuition went to what I'll call the abyss. No clue where that money ever got spent. It's classified under support, student & additional services. So it begs the question, where was that money going if so much of my school was not "diverse." Brings me back to my original point. Some colleges are located in areas where the philosophy is much different than Jacksonville, FL. $3.5M wouldn't even come close to covering the DEI clubs combined budget on campus. So where does that money go? It simply is inflating the cost of colleges.
I would rather see the federal support that PWI's have, and send that to HBCU's. So even though I triggered some people here, the fact remains that.. I'm not elitist even though I'm sure that makes you guys feel better saying that. I have lived experiences that I guess just upset people because they don't fancy y'alls tickle. I'm sure the "developer" in my name triggers y'all too. I work on single-family homes & am trying to make Jacksonville a better place one property at a time. I gained motivation to do this from the experiences I had in college.
I find it ironic that I came on here to give a harmless opinion, and the responses on here literally prove the state of academia. You have people jumping to conclusions and unable to have a conversation. Only reason why I even gravitated towards this site was being able to hear opposing opinions to what I think, because sometimes I have a hard time understanding the more entrenched perspectives. I try to be respectful of comments made before but I understand some of you feel a certain way about yourself that making harsh generalizations makes you feel better about your opinion. You have to ask yourself if "you" are a contributing reason why the dialogue around colleges has gotten so polarized.
But since I'm so elitist, maybe I'll have to go talk with my other elitist friends since I went to such an elitist college & all I do is surround myself with elitist. Lol, too funny.
^Obviously it touched a nerve, but my comment saying one of your responses was "obliviously elitist" was a joke based on your earlier statement "This is the most "I have lived in Florida my whole life" response I have ever read". The conversation has gone all over the place, but the original point isn't really controversial: the state government's actions are hurting the future of UNF and the other state schools. The state's efforts are based on politics and ideology, not what's best for the schools, students, communities, etc. And while it may be true that some private schools or schools in other states are doing crazy things or wasting money on diversity-related programming (although it's not likely any could really spend 30% of their budget on that), that just doesn't reflect what's happening here. At UNF and the other Florida schools, diversity initiatives are very much based on serving students of various backgrounds. The services are a fraction of the budget and got a lot of bang for the buck. The state's decisions are a big setback with no gain.
As far as the conversation goes, obviously folks have various opinions on this topic. That's the way it goes. I don't see anything in the previous comments that's out of line or especially nasty, which is the line in this forum. Political issues can make conversations more heated, but this one's pretty par for the course. Keep it up.
Quote from: Tacachale on February 17, 2024, 10:28:09 AM
And that is the most obviously elitist response I've read this side of Simms, lol.
I LOVE that you guys think I am the elitist on this forum when my views and philosophy *definitely* more closely mirrors the average middle class American (which also describes my own demographic). Y'all are pretty progressive on a host of issues (not the least of which is the one we are discussing), which in reality more closely mirrors the views and philosophy of the donor class elite in this country, these days.
Quote from: fsu813 on February 18, 2024, 08:40:39 AM
Fantastic article by Mark Woods in the Florida Times-Union about this subject:
"And at this point, the idea that maybe the Free State of Florida isn't so free — that 2024 Florida has some "1984" vibes to it — isn't just coming from the left-leaning groups state leaders frequently rail against."
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/columns/2024/02/17/duval-county-schools-unf-plan-for-future-amidst-culture-war-winds/72605913007/
Mark Woods has as much credibility these days as a wart on my thumb. He's a hyperbolic liberal mess with a few interesting proud associations. He's one of a slew of reasons I don't shell out my hard-earned money to the Florida Times Union anymore.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on February 19, 2024, 12:06:48 PM
I had never heard the term PWI until you said it and I'm shocked that somebody would use that term in a non-derogatory way.
I had also never heard of the term but when I looked it up on Google, most of the results seemed to be geared towards a black audience (comparing HBCUs to PWIs for the black experience). I'm not sure how simply using an acronym for "predominantly white institution" could be "derogatory". It's simply descriptive in an era in which everyone is obsessed with race.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on February 19, 2024, 12:06:48 PM
I attended UF and the diversity of the student population is part of what makes it so competitive and such a good school. I don't think I'd be where I am today without that environment. There were students of other backgrounds who were motivated by the opportunity to change their station in life. They had made it to the top by hard work and they continually had to prove themselves. I admired their motivation and work ethic and it pushed me to try harder.
There are some students who were going to work for their parents after graduation anyway so it didn't matter if they accomplished anything other than building a 2 story beer bong. For the rest of us who wanted to make something of ourselves, it was a grind. We're all better for it and most of my classmates have gone on to be extremely successful. If anything were to take that diversity of the student body away due to students not feeling comfortable or no longer having the support services for their demographic, it would damage the entire college experience and the quality of the graduates.
I'm not here to agree or disagree with you except state that the way you write this comes across as "diversity for the sake of diversity = automatically good/better and white people, especially those with certain lots in life = automatically bad beer bonging bros". I don't fault you for it, it's a pretty common and acceptable mentality to have these days.
I prefer strictly merit based (which is NOT the system we are living in now) and I believe we can get to a point where merit based will in fact still ensure tons of diversity that mirrors the population, but my philosophy on how to get there in this country makes me a traditional conservative and my progressive opponents act like we'll never get there so it's all automatic diversity and equity now without actually helping anyone (and thus lowering standards right and left in every aspect of life, as we can all notice).
Quote from: simms3 on February 20, 2024, 02:06:59 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on February 17, 2024, 10:28:09 AM
And that is the most obviously elitist response I've read this side of Simms, lol.
I LOVE that you guys think I am the elitist on this forum when my views and philosophy *definitely* more closely mirrors the average middle class American (which also describes my own demographic). Y'all are pretty progressive on a host of issues (not the least of which is the one we are discussing), which in reality more closely mirrors the views and philosophy of the donor class elite in this country, these days.
I (jokingly) called your comments elitist because you have a tendency to say elitist things that you seem to think are more common among the populace than they are, for instance the above comment.
Quote from: simms3 on February 20, 2024, 02:06:59 PM
I'm not here to agree or disagree with you except state that the way you write this comes across as "diversity for the sake of diversity = automatically good/better and white people, especially those with certain lots in life = automatically bad beer bonging bros". I don't fault you for it, it's a pretty common and acceptable mentality to have these days.
That was not my intention. UF is a very selective school, so everyone got there by some merit. It is much easier to get full bright futures than get into UF. Most students who go there don't have to pay for their schooling which opens the applicant pool to a more diverse group of people. Due to being able to draw from students of all income levels and selective enough to only choose those who are most qualified, UF has achieved the merit based system you're talking about.
I am self aware enough to know that I wasn't born on third and think I hit a triple, but I was definitely born rounding first. I was in the business school and one of the more involved students. Of the other highly involved students who were at the top of the class, most did not share my background and had to work harder to get where they were. These students pushed those around them to work harder and the group was better for it.
Mega lame move by Moez if this happens.
Dude made some big promises to the state, and dude is hanging UNF out to dry if he bails less than two years into the new strategic plan.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2025/sep/30/university-of-north-florida-president-moez-limayem-may-be-moving-to-usf/
Quote from: Ken_FSU on September 30, 2025, 09:25:26 PM
Mega lame move by Moez if this happens.
Dude made some big promises to the state, and dude is hanging UNF out to dry if he bails less than two years into the new strategic plan.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2025/sep/30/university-of-north-florida-president-moez-limayem-may-be-moving-to-usf/
Apparently he spent much of his career at USF, some as a dean. May have family in the area still. Likely going to double his salary or more. Added prestige. Hard to pass up if all this is the case.
The way DeSantis and his ilk are running off university presidents, they are like NFL players, and need to take the money while the going is good. Never know when the political axe will fall.
Then, look at CSX this week. An excellent CEO that, over 3 years, has improved the company, is beloved by employees, customers and community, and, just because he won't bow down to a corporate raider, is out of a job. Employers are not faithful to employees nowadays so we have a culture where employees are not motivated to be loyal back. Everyone for themselves. Just like our politicos. We are in a selfish society, more than not. Sad...