QuoteThe Florida Blue office tower that opened a half century ago as a health insurance headquarters could become the future home base of the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office.
The prospect remains in the discussion stage but is picking up speed. If the Sheriff's Office were to make the move to the Riverside Avenue office tower, it would be a sign of how the COVID-19 pandemic and remote work has impacted Jacksonville's office market by making it less costly to lease space than build something new from the ground up.
QuoteIf the Sheriff's Office moved out of the Police Memorial Building, it would take about 80% of the building.
QuoteHe said it also avoids the cost of constructing a new administration building on top of what will be a huge cost for a new county jail. For several years, the city's capital improvement program has used an estimated cost of $244 million for building a 3,000-bed jail off Lannie Road on the Northside, a $41 million pricetag for a second 500-bed jail for short-term holding of inmates somewhere in downtown, and a new Police Memorial Building at an estimated cost of $96 million.
Boylan said the projected cost of a new jail in Pima County, Arizona, recently came in at about $850 million and it is a comparable facility to what Jacksonville is considering for its new jail.
Full article: https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2024/01/12/florida-blue-might-lease-tower-to-jacksonville-sheriffs-office/72186999007/
Quote
Duke Addison of Addison Commercial Real Estate told the committee he knows of two or three options in the suburbs. Schmitt said he welcomes the competition for the best site that fits the requirements.
I really hope a suburban site is not given serious consideration.
I hope they do take over the BCBS tower. This would be a good example of keeping public jobs in the downtown area and using them to fill up excess office space.
QuoteHe said it also avoids the cost of constructing a new administration building on top of what will be a huge cost for a new county jail. For several years, the city's capital improvement program has used an estimated cost of $244 million for building a 3,000-bed jail off Lannie Road on the Northside, a $41 million pricetag for a second 500-bed jail for short-term holding of inmates somewhere in downtown, and a new Police Memorial Building at an estimated cost of $96 million.
Boylan said the projected cost of a new jail in Pima County, Arizona, recently came in at about $850 million and it is a comparable facility to what Jacksonville is considering for its new jail.
What does everyone think about this? Seems there will still be a new jail built in downtown. What is the downtown site that everyone is most accepting of seeing a new 500-bed jail being built on?
Quote from: thelakelander on January 13, 2024, 05:36:43 PM
I hope they do take over the BCBS tower. This would be a good example of keeping public jobs in the downtown area and using them to fill up excess office space.
QuoteHe said it also avoids the cost of constructing a new administration building on top of what will be a huge cost for a new county jail. For several years, the city's capital improvement program has used an estimated cost of $244 million for building a 3,000-bed jail off Lannie Road on the Northside, a $41 million pricetag for a second 500-bed jail for short-term holding of inmates somewhere in downtown, and a new Police Memorial Building at an estimated cost of $96 million.
Boylan said the projected cost of a new jail in Pima County, Arizona, recently came in at about $850 million and it is a comparable facility to what Jacksonville is considering for its new jail.
What does everyone think about this? Seems there will still be a new jail built in downtown. What is the downtown site that everyone is most accepting of seeing a new 500-bed jail being built on?
Not in eastside near the stadium, not in Brooklyn/Riverside obviously, not in the CBD, MAYBE in LaVilla as far west near the interstate as they can get it. In FTL the administration building for Police/Sheriff is 2 to 3 miles away from the Jail; the admin building is near I-95 and the Jail is on the south side of the New River in/near the CBD; I don't think that's really a problem or should be in Jax. Nothing much going on in LaVilla, that is north of the Convention Center anyway (near that area).
What kind of footprint would a new 'downtown' jail require? It looks like the existing jail (ignoring parking) is about the size of a typical downtown Jax block.
The area near Dennis + Ives? Seems a shame, but someone is going to get stuck with an unpleasant new neighbor. That industrial area bounded by the interstate and train tracks maybe has a lower opportunity cost?
Isn't this building exponentially bigger than the one they are currently using?
Quote from: Charles Hunter on January 13, 2024, 06:22:54 PM
What kind of footprint would a new 'downtown' jail require? It looks like the existing jail (ignoring parking) is about the size of a typical downtown Jax block.
The entire complex is roughly 3.5 city blocks (minus the parking) which does include their offices too. I'm not very familiar with the layout of the buildings, but the parking is necessary one-way or another for any facility. Garages of course being the much more expensive route.
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I think the idea of moving the HQ to the Florida Blue building is a great idea (also because their parking garage is mostly empty & takes up huge amount of real estate in Brooklyn...). At the very least those sites will get some utilization! Obviously cost too.
I question the need for a 500-bed facility for trial & booking purposes downtown (I'm no expert on it though). Regardless, as a city we really should want the next prison to be located in an industrial area on the Northside/Westside. There are large assemblages, with good soil & in areas that lack any business beyond storage. That's going to be the cheapest route by a mile & pursuing more urban options creates the same issues the current location does today. There are several areas which lack a "living" population & make much more sense to pursue than pushing the problem 40 years down the road to another part of town.
P.S. The cost of shuttling will be made up by actually having tax revenue on our premium urban core parcels.
200 beds seems more reasonable for the DT facility.
Agreed Vic. Not sure on the size difference but imagine the FL Blue building is larger by quite a bit. They mentioned the JSO's office taking up "80% of the building" but not sure if its a 1:1 comparison of staff.
Why downtown? I think a good place for the jail would be near Golfair and Brentwood, near the old fair grounds. It's close to I95 and some of the higher crime areas.
Even cities that have relocated their main jails from DT have a satellite detention facility near their courthouse for ease of transit & other reasons I'm sure.
Quote from: Snaketoz on January 14, 2024, 11:14:53 AM
Why downtown? I think a good place for the jail would be near Golfair and Brentwood, near the old fair grounds. It's close to I95 and some of the higher crime areas.
The Brentwood community is already upset with the City for locating the new Medical Examiner's Office (aka "morgue") in their neighborhood. I think a jail with several hundred inmates will be even more unpalatable.
Quote
"The name of our organization is Metro Gardens Neighborhood Association," she said. "Not Stupid Gardens Neighborhood Association, and that's how they've played us."
She said no neighborhood group in Jacksonville would accept such a project across the street from an existing subdivision and a grade school, but the city decided to put it in a predominantly Black part of Jacksonville without giving residents advance notice of the plan.
"What you all voted for is the continued pattern of abuse in the Black community," she told City Council in September after it approved a rezoning of the site.
https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/news/local/brentwood-residents-jacksonville-failed-on-neighborhood-bill-of-rights-medical-examiners-office-golfair-boulevard-i95/77-595e3c17-0c36-43b6-978d-282db85e9568
Yeah, it would be a modern day example of redlining and highlight the problems of social and environmental justice. It would be more prudent to keep a smaller jail right where it is, than stick a new one in a historic Black neighborhood.
If only 80% of the building at FBT would be JSO...then they could build their own mini-KrispyKreme in the building, no?
Quote from: thelakelander on January 14, 2024, 03:02:45 PM
Yeah, it would be a modern day example of redlining and highlight the problems of social and environmental justice. It would be more prudent to keep a smaller jail right where it is, than stick a new one in a historic Black neighborhood.
Yeah, it seems someone wants to always put Jails in the black neighborhood(s); I wonder what would happen if plans were announced to build a new Jail in San Jose? Or Mandarin? Or San Marco?
I thought I recalled hearing that JSO was looking for 360,000 square feet or so. Is that how much is available?
Also would this mean DCPS would have to call off their search (or somehow found the money for the JTA offer)? Or can the building fit both of them?
I was thinking the Universal Marion building could be a good fit, but I suppose if they find the BCBS space in Brooklyn sufficient that's okay too.
Quote from: marcuscnelson on January 15, 2024, 10:29:32 AM
I thought I recalled hearing that JSO was looking for 360,000 square feet or so. Is that how much is available?
Also would this mean DCPS would have to call off their search (or somehow found the money for the JTA offer)? Or can the building fit both of them?
I was thinking the Universal Marion building could be a good fit, but I suppose if they find the BCBS space in Brooklyn sufficient that's okay too.
The total building is 550k SF or so & if 360k is the number... then the 80% does somewhat pencil out when you factor the net rentable area. I think the Florida Blue building is a better fit for them because of it's parking & accessibility. Always thought that they had an ideal site.
Quote from: marcuscnelson on January 15, 2024, 10:29:32 AM
I thought I recalled hearing that JSO was looking for 360,000 square feet or so. Is that how much is available?
Also would this mean DCPS would have to call off their search (or somehow found the money for the JTA offer)? Or can the building fit both of them?
I was thinking the Universal Marion building could be a good fit, but I suppose if they find the BCBS space in Brooklyn sufficient that's okay too.
From info I have seen, I am not convinced the DCPS can justify moving from where they are. The only justification so far seems to be the political optics of not being on the river.
Given how much is available to developers, currently, with nothing happening, I don't see the urgency for someone to replace their building with something more valuable. They should stay put, update the building, and can look again in 15 or 20 years. Maybe Jax will be different then and it makes more sense to look at other options. But, this being Jax, don't count that either ;D.
It's official.
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/politics/government/2024/02/28/whats-next-for-moving-the-duval-county-jail-out-of-downtown-city-council-recidivism-mental-health/72765801007/
QuoteJSO decides to move forward with Florida Blue office space
JSO will request that City Council approve a lease in the coming months that would move the agency's headquarters from the downtown Police Memorial Building to the Florida Blue tower in the Brooklyn neighborhood.
The agency began working with the city's Real Estate Division earlier this year to explore existing potential office space to relocate the police headquarters after deciding it would be more cost-effective to lease a space than to build an entirely new facility.
JSO signed a lease with the health insurance headquarters last year to move specific offices to the tower, utilizing about three floors of space and paying over $1.17 million annually, not including parking.
If JSO moved entirely to Florida Blue at 532 Riverside Ave., it would utilize about 80% of the building.
"Seeing the cost of new construction and then listening to the experts in the field, that's where it really kind of turn for us and flip the light switch say 'Hey, this is a real viable option for the rest of the placement of the building,'" Sheriff's Office Director of Police Services Larry Schmitt said Tuesday.
City attorneys within the Office of General Counsel are negotiating a lease agreement, which will have to be approved by City Council, Boylan told the Times-Union.
He anticipated between negotiation, renovation of the building and moving personnel, the move would take around a year. He advised JSO attendees Tuesday to begin planning how the Police Memorial Building could be used, once vacant, to help problems in the jail.
He suggested turning the building into an on-site infirmary to cut down the cost of transporting the incarcerated population to UF Health, but he also speculated it could be used as an area for corrections officers.
Presumably this means the end of DCPS's ability to move into the building, which limits their options to the new construction next to the JRTC or choosing to not relocate at this time.
QuoteHe anticipated between negotiation, renovation of the building and moving personnel, the move would take around a year. He advised JSO attendees Tuesday to begin planning how the Police Memorial Building could be used, once vacant, to help problems in the jail.
He suggested turning the building into an on-site infirmary to cut down the cost of transporting the incarcerated population to UF Health, but he also speculated it could be used as an area for corrections officers.
I wonder if they are reviewing how to reuse the Police Memorial Building as a short term or long term use? An on-site infirmary doesn't sound cheap or something worth spending millions on for a five year life span.
Quote from: thelakelander on February 28, 2024, 04:43:37 PM
QuoteHe anticipated between negotiation, renovation of the building and moving personnel, the move would take around a year. He advised JSO attendees Tuesday to begin planning how the Police Memorial Building could be used, once vacant, to help problems in the jail.
He suggested turning the building into an on-site infirmary to cut down the cost of transporting the incarcerated population to UF Health, but he also speculated it could be used as an area for corrections officers.
I wonder if they are reviewing how to reuse the Police Memorial Building as a short term or long term use? An on-site infirmary doesn't sound cheap or something worth spending millions on for a five year life span.
With JTA's autonomous vehicles passing by this building I am just shocked ;D that JSO is moving. Surely, there will be a line out the door for tenants wanting to be on this new transit line so they can be the first in the world to experience JTA's revolutionary accomplishment. LOL.
Seriously, could this building be a candidate for being part of UF's planned campus here? It is secure, well located, iconic in design, likely built to institutional type standards, etc. Surely, the students would love to ride the JTA boondoggle if no one esle will.
Seriously, the building is nowhere near any of the sites that UF has indicated any interest in. They seem to desire a mostly continuous campus, and this site doesn't really fit that at all. I'm sure that transit access is a complete nonfactor for JSO's decision making, and while that's a failure of policymaking, it's hard to blame JSO for deciding not to take the U2C seriously.
To speak to lake, the bigger question is potentially whether JSO is factoring the DIA's convention center dreams into their decisionmaking at all. Lori Boyer's dream a few years ago of downtown land values skyrocketing enough for land deals to cover the costs seems pretty safely dead, and with signature projects dropping like flies while the cost of a new jail skyrockets it seems likely that the late Curry ambitions will have to be reconsidered given the economic realities.
Quote from: marcuscnelson on February 28, 2024, 10:41:07 PM
Seriously, the building is nowhere near any of the sites that UF has indicated any interest in. They seem to desire a mostly continuous campus, and this site doesn't really fit that at all. I'm sure that transit access is a complete nonfactor for JSO's decision making, and while that's a failure of policymaking, it's hard to blame JSO for deciding not to take the U2C seriously.
Marcus, not sure if you realize I was making light of the AV project and never thought JSO took this or any other transit into account.
As to UF, it appears JSO's site is in the midrange of the geography they are rumored to be looking at so I would not say this is "nowhere near any of the sites UF has indicated interest in." If they are looking all around this site, then the geographic location should work. Now, is the building and grounds it sits on suitable? I don't know and that is the question I was posing, or at least wondering, if it is worth a gander.
Regarding a convention center, where is the City going to find $1B for the jail, $1B for the stadium and $.5 to 1B maybe for a convention center plus much more for septic tanks, deferred road maintenance, garbage fee deficit, resiliency.... etc.* And, we still have Curry's "kick the can down the road" underfunded pension liability. So, I think we see eye to eye here.
*This makes spending hundred of millions of the gas tax on U2C even more ludicrous given more pressing needs in the City.
A good article in today's Jax Today about the competing needs for City money. https://jaxtoday.org/2024/02/28/what-else-could-proposed-stadium-money-buy/?omhide=true
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on February 28, 2024, 11:49:59 PM
Marcus, not sure if you realize I was making light of the AV project and never thought JSO took this or any other transit into account.
You said seriously, not me. ;)
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on February 28, 2024, 11:49:59 PM
As to UF, it appears JSO's site is in the midrange of the geography they are rumored to be looking at so I would not say this is "nowhere near any of the sites UF has indicated interest in." If they are looking all around this site, then the geographic location should work. Now, is the building and grounds it sits on suitable? I don't know and that is the question I was posing, or at least wondering, if it is worth a gander.
Regarding a convention center, where is the City going to find $1B for the jail, $1B for the stadium and $.5 to 1B maybe for a convention center plus much more for septic tanks, deferred road maintenance, garbage fee deficit, resiliency.... etc.* And, we still have Curry's "kick the can down the road" underfunded pension liability. So, I think we see eye to eye here.
*This makes spending hundred of millions of the gas tax on U2C even more ludicrous given more pressing needs in the City.
I don't think that's how this kind of search looks. If UF are looking at several different sites, a site between those options isn't necessarily going to be a fit, especially if it'd mean separating facilities from the rest of campus.
Again, it seems fairly obvious that the Curry-era scale simply isn't able to survive Deegan-era realities. This administration seems much more interested in looking for money elsewhere, especially given the relative generosity still coming from Washington, but even then there's only so much money out there, and someone has to realize the harsh truth. The stadium deal could very well get value engineered somewhat (with the entertainment district already separated out), a jail potentially broken into phases, convention center (correctly) evolved into a Hyatt expansion, so on and so forth. There are ways for this city to get smart about how it invests that people on this site have been talking about for years now, that plenty of other cities have done and seen great success from, and if Deegan wants to succeed will probably need to learn from. Hopefully she has the chance to do that.
I can confirm that the jail isn't and never will be an option in the UF search.
Quote from: marcuscnelson on February 29, 2024, 07:41:56 PM
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on February 28, 2024, 11:49:59 PM
Marcus, not sure if you realize I was making light of the AV project and never thought JSO took this or any other transit into account.
You said seriously, not me. ;)
The sentence referencing transit included a grinning emoji and ended with an LOL. "Seriously" applied to the next paragraph which talked about evaluating if JSO's current HQ's could work for UF.
Quote from: thelakelander on February 29, 2024, 10:11:24 PM
I can confirm that the jail isn't and never will be an option in the UF search.
I wasn't talking about the jail but JSO HQ's.
Folks, please read my posts more carefully ;). Thank you!
Quote from: thelakelander on February 29, 2024, 10:11:24 PM
I can confirm that the jail isn't and never will be an option in the UF search.
But ... a ready-made dormitory!! ;)
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on February 29, 2024, 10:47:00 PM
Quote from: marcuscnelson on February 29, 2024, 07:41:56 PM
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on February 28, 2024, 11:49:59 PM
Marcus, not sure if you realize I was making light of the AV project and never thought JSO took this or any other transit into account.
You said seriously, not me. ;)
The sentence referencing transit included a grinning emoji and ended with an LOL. "Seriously" applied to the next paragraph which talked about evaluating if JSO's current HQ's could work for UF.
Quote from: thelakelander on February 29, 2024, 10:11:24 PM
I can confirm that the jail isn't and never will be an option in the UF search.
I wasn't talking about the jail but JSO HQ's.
Folks, please read my posts more carefully ;). Thank you!
Online conversations really need a "sarcasm" font!