The DIA and Lori bashing on this board is getting pretty hard to take. When we bring in investors or partners from outside of Jacksonville, they are BLOWN AWAY by the structure and resources of the DIA, and Lori personally. We hear constantly that we are incredibly lucky to have an organization like the DIA that is singularly focused on downtown, that is able to incentivize projects the way that we do here. That we are incredibly lucky that the CEO of that organization is not some political figurehead (like they see in a lot of other markets) but someone who understands urban development at a deep level.
The DIA and Lori (and of course amazing support from both mayor Curry's and Mayor Deegan's administrations) are the only reason that projects like Pearl Street have gotten as far as they have. That long vacant historic buildings are being put back into productive use. That downtown Jax is on an absolutely incredible trajectory, which can be clearly seen by anyone in who is coming from other markets and understands development. When we brought Gateway's now CEO, Bryan Moll, to town back in 2022, there was almost no chance he was going to take the job. After touring downtown, seeing what was going on, and meeting with Lori, Lenny, Daniel Davis, the Jags, and others... he said that the opportunity in Jacksonville in 2022 was better than the opportunity in Tampa in 2016. And he moved to Jax.
The DIA and Lori are definitely not perfect, but the majority of decisions that this board continually harps on had nothing, or very little to do with the DIA or Lori.
- Landing got torn down? Check
- Infrastructure/parks taking too long? Check.
- Backlog of projects because DIA doesn't have enough resources? Check.
I am all for holding people and organizations accountable, but I believe the majority of this board is just way off base on this one. And a downtown Jacksonville without the DIA or Lori would have been (or would be in the future, if it/she were gone) set back years.
Just had to get this off my chest. :)
Alex, I think most people here respect Lori and value her contributions to the City, on the Council and now on DIA. It may not be on Lori that things are not lining up to meet the expectations (a lot of which are derived by comparisons of Jax progress to that of other communities) of many but, as head of the agency and its face, it comes with the territory that you are going to be the lightning rod for any shortcomings, even if not your fault or within your purview.
If DIA is hamstrung or there is a sense it is less than transparent, Lori needs to somehow show the external community that she is working at addressing those concerns. Some have suspected, right or wrong, that under Curry, her agenda was more or less regulated by him and, if so, that was not a great thing. Maybe she was "protecting" him, but, again, that means she is going to be the lightning rod.
Being a public official is not for the feint of heart. Just like being a Jags coach, no matter the circumstances with injuries, player performance, ownership meddling, etc., the coach is going to take the fall. Lori, having served on the Council, can't be surprised by the public critiques, even if unfair.
Having been born and raised here, it also frustrating, over many decades, to see Jax leadership squander so many opportunities so, regardless of who runs DIA, there is also a preexisting/built in concern for the direction of Downtown that carries over. It would appear you clearly have identified the same and its why you are all over town trying to change that. Congrats on your efforts.
Lastly, for those who care, there are going to be competing visions for what success looks like. The absence of greater public input into, and transparency of, priority setting, master planning and large projects Downtown adds fuel to the fire.
Hopefully, with Deegan in office, everyone benefits from a new paradigm. We will see.
I think with an administration change, it will be pretty obvious in about a year or two how things are going IMO. I do think that the structure of the DIA leads to confusion about who is responsible. For example, how long has Friendship Park been closed and why?
I do agree that the Landing situation was not a DIA decision - that was obviously a 4th Floor of St. James call.
I'd say the Laura Trio hasn't been a good look for anyone involved - and that includes Steve Atkins.
I do hope (though hope is not a plan) that we start to see some of those fruits coming during the next few years.
I've always felt that it has been hard to criticize the actual work that the DIA members do. I'm fairly confident they perform more work behind the scenes than most realize. My biggest critiques of the DIA are more so in the responsibilities that the council allows them to have & what restricts them from implementing their defined goals. U2C for example... the DIA has to get other authorities to cooperate with them in their own backyard. In my eyes, downtown transit, parks, etc. should all have some common authority with the ability to masterplan (the intention of the DIA). The DIA continues & will continue to get blamed for factors they can't control.
Man, it's hard. I think the vast majority of us genuinely like Lori Boyer as a human being, recognize how sharp she is, and consider her to be a tremendous asset to the City of Jacksonville. I don't think anyone doubts her integrity or work ethic. Nor do I think you'll find a person here who thinks the DIA members aren't working very hard in a largely thankless position. And I like to think a lot of us have given credit where due for the DIA's wins with beefing up the historic preservation trust, pushing through difficult negotiations with the Jags and state on the Shipyards/Met Park, championing the scooter share program, pushing to get beverage concessions along the riverwalk, etc.
But at the end of the day, when you've got DIA CEO in front of your name, the buck has to stop with you, and I think it's totally fair to ask if downtown is in a better place now than it was when she took the position. Not in terms of pipeline, or proposals, but in terms of concrete, meaningful progress that can be enjoyed today. It's like looking at the Jags meltdown and blaming Shad Khan or Doug Pederson, or looking at inflation and blaming the President. It's overly simplistic, but comes with the territory. As any of us who manage a team know, if the team doesn't get results, we're holding the bag. I think there's a universe where you can respect Lori Boyer but not consider her the best fit for the position.
Deeply admire you Alex and really respect what you and your team are doing, but I also think the excitement you see through your lens as a developer doesn't necessarily discredit the frustration a lot of us have with what we see on the streets each day see with our own eyes as downtown workers, residents, or advocates. They're radically different viewpoints that both hold validity in their own way. It's hard to feel that momentum you speak of just yet on the streets. If anything, it feels like we've regressed in some ways over the last five years.
You see the future.
We see the present.
Will gladly take your future over it, and I"m personally excited about the excitement you see within the development community.
Now, with a new mayor in town, it's up to the DIA to prove us all wrong and turn some of these countless, long-promised projects in the CBD, riverfront developments, and parks from concept into something that I can enjoy with my 10-year old daughter in the next 1-3 years before she's too cool to hang with me. It'll be the true test.
Keep doing what you're doing, Jax is lucky to have you, and hoping you're back with a big obnoxious "I told you so" in the near future 8)
Until we see actual results, then there will be gnashing of teeth from the citizens towards the DIA. It's no different than how we feel about the Jags. Yes, objectively, Shad has put a lot of money and energy into the organization as a means to improve it. However, we are still a dumpster fire so the lashing out at Shad will continue until we see sustained improvement.
Similarly, more has been torn down than built up in downtown the last decade +. Empty lots are everywhere. Renderings are a meme. Bulkheads, fountains and pedestrian pathways take more time to fix/complete than multi billion dollar stadiums in red-tape-central California. To say we'd be even more at a loss without the DIA doesn't give us any confidence in their actual mission. We want to see results! We are the River City and we have absolutely NOTHING along the river to show for it. We've been promised the moon forever so forgive us for not being believers in their process or leader. That's my take along with about 98% of the citizens of Duval.
New piece in Forbes this morning with some excitement about Downtown:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffsteele/2024/01/11/jacksonville-poised-for-boom-times-downtown/
Nate Monroe isn't convinced (https://x.com/NateMonroeTU/status/1745602696449511524?s=20).
QuoteWhen folks are asked to name the top Florida city, most don't answer "Jacksonville." The burg alternately known as "The First Coast," "Gateway to Florida," and "River City" typically gets left in the dust by a lengthy list of other Sunshine State settings.
But today, when folks are asked to name the Florida place most on the move, with the best-conceived plans for growth, "Jacksonville" may be the well-informed answer.
Or rather, "Downtown Jacksonville," may be the words voiced by those in the know.
^Note to whoever paid for this article. Don't lay it on so thick from the start. Anyone with a triple digit IQ can tell this is an advertorial right away.
Lol.. look I have criticism of our market for sure, but by no means can you argue that we aren't a very fast growing "city" in the US.
Just a "few" things that have happened in 2023:
- #1 market for retail growth per CBRE
- 4% job growth per BLS
- Still multi-million square feet of industrial property under construction & in planning per Daily Record
I know downtown still lacks, but you can almost go anywhere & see development of some kind. I think that contrast has added to people's frustrations about the lack of downtown vibrancy. Totally a paid ad, but why's that matter? I see "stuff" like this for other cities all the time. It just sells to write about whats next. Just take the free press imo & utilize it.
Quote from: marcuscnelson on January 11, 2024, 10:19:40 PM
New piece in Forbes this morning with some excitement about Downtown:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffsteele/2024/01/11/jacksonville-poised-for-boom-times-downtown/
Nate Monroe isn't convinced (https://x.com/NateMonroeTU/status/1745602696449511524?s=20).
I was laughing the whole way through this article. It looks like it was lifted from DIA's annual puff piece. I mean, are we talking about the same Downtown that is dissed daily on the Jaxson ;D? This guy needs to look into the icons of Downtown: the Trio, Lenny's lawn, Friendship fountain, the District, the Hardwick, and, especially, the ultimate savior of Downtown, the U2C, and still tell us how he reaches his conclusions. I guess news of the upcoming Daily's gas station at the gateway to Downtown was the icing on the cake... he had to be really impressed. LOL.
Quote from: Jax_Developer on January 11, 2024, 11:36:35 PM
I know downtown still lacks, but you can almost go anywhere & see development of some kind. I think that contrast has added to people's frustrations about the lack of downtown vibrancy. Totally a paid ad, but why's that matter? I see "stuff" like this for other cities all the time. It just sells to write about whats next. Just take the free press imo & utilize it.
I don't have any issue with doing the paid ad/PR thing for downtown, but I don't think it's productive to be so hyperbolic. Saying that Downtown Jacksonville would be considered the Florida place the "most on the move" by those "in the know", would be laughed at by those that are actually in the know, because it's an asinine claim.
Posted in another thread recently that Miami currently has 18 buildings taller than 400 feet under construction right now. By comparison Jax only has 5 buildings taller than 400 feet, in existence. Miami has 11 buildings under construction that are taller than Jax's tallest building. Downtown West Palm Beach has 15 high rises under construction right now. Fort Lauderdale has 21 buildings taller than 400 feet in the pipeline now. People "in the know" are aware of that.
The Downtown cheerleaders are so trapped in their own echo chamber, that I'm not sure they even have a grasp on reality.
Step 1: Execute your plans
Step 2: Brag
QuoteBut today, when folks are asked to name the Florida place most on the move, with the best-conceived plans for growth, "Jacksonville" may be the well-informed answer.
This is the line that I find most problematic. There are groups who are doing great things in downtown, but there is not a "plan" for anything. The city chases the deal of the week, but there's no overarching plan. The Emerald Trail and resiliency have helped to add a framework for some of the new development and DIA/DDRB have some rules of engagement, but there is truly nothing forward looking that developers or companies can pick up to see where Jax is going. When the city owns hundreds of acres downtown with no disposition plan, there are dozens of illegal surface lots facing no penalties, and there are vacant historic buildings rotting in the sun, there is no plan.
In the absence of a master plan, just start with what AG Lafley said at the great cities symposium. Start with one block, make it great, and expand from there. Start with JWJ park and work you way out. Gateway Jax will help exponentially once you get past hogan street, but the far flung civic projects that are proposed for downtown will do less than a concentrated effort that builds on itself.
Quote from: CityLife on January 12, 2024, 09:14:36 AMThe Downtown cheerleaders are so trapped in their own echo chamber, that I'm not sure they even have a grasp on reality.
Step 1: Execute your plans
Step 2: Brag
This kind of hits the nail square on the head for me, and is probably why I personally can be so vocal in my criticism of entities like the DIA and the DVI. When I'm walking clients or out-of-state coworkers from the Hyatt, alongside the grass field at the Landing that's been vacant for four years and will be vacant for at least two more, past the bombed-out Laura Street Trio, down our signature street with recently closed restaurants and boarded up jewelry stores, into an office that's been vandalized for the third time in a year by the increasingly unhinged vagrant population, I don't have a particularly strong appetite to hear how well things are going for Downtown Jacksonville based largely on the DIA's willingness to hand out incentives for a bunch of projects that are stalled, haven't started, or are merely renders on paper at this point.
I'm cautiously optimistic that we'll start to see some action in 2024, but I'm also not willing to be gaslit about the current state of affairs either. I've run the numbers myself on true development vs. proposed pipeline, retail openings vs. closings, and office recovery vs. other Florida markets, and it's totally divorced from reality to say that things are in a good state in the here and now.
The above article is clearly an advertorial, and I have no problem with it. It wasn't written for me, it was written to drum up outside interest in Downtown Jacksonville. What I do have a major problem with though, and what scares me for our future, is if the DIA and DVI truly believe that we're in a great spot. That inability to admit that there's a problem, and failure to take ownership and accountability for fixing it, even if it's not within their limited purview, is why I get so worked up from time to time.
As the leader in pushing downtown forward, we just need more urgency, more proactive communication, and a willingness to take a stand from the DIA. No stand is taken by the DIA when historic building stock is destroyed (they still haven't penalized the developer who tore down the Greyhound Station for an illegal surface lot). No stand is taken when the JTA bets Jacksonville's long-term transportation future on a $500 million fleet of unproven robovans. No stand is taken when public works takes a historic park like Friendship Fountain offline for four years with no accountability and no progress.
On Lori Boyer specifically, it's not personal, but this quote on construction of the new park at the Landing pretty much sums up my frustration with that lack of urgency and accountability.
Quotehttps://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2023/07/10/long-awaited-construction-on-riverfront-plaza-begins-monday/
Lori Boyer, CEO of the Downtown Investment Authority, said she expects that the project will be completed in a little more than a year.
"I think that the Public Works estimate on it is around 15 to 18 months," Boyer said. "But that's always subject to change, whether there's weather delays or supply chain delays, you know, any of that kind of stuff. But at the moment, we're looking forward to finally getting it out of the way."
This is such a key downtown project, and quotes like this read like we're already making collective excuses for nothing getting done. This - like the parks at Friendship Fountain and the Times-Union Performing Arts Center - are projects that she personally led and championed. I'd hope the leader of the DIA would take a more active, vocal lead in pushing through all the red tape and brute forcing them to completion.
It's also worth pointing out that she did, in fact, contribute to the decision to demolish, rather than redevelop the Jacksonville Landing. She voted yes as a Council member, and vocally supported the decision in the press. It's not her fault, but she did advocate for it.
Last thing I'll say is that the DIA has absolutely failed on the riverfront. With parks, and vagrancy, and transportation, and demolition of historic building stock, there's plausible deniability. You can easily point to other entities who share the blame, whether that be public works, the JTA, City Council, whatever.
For the absolute waste of a decade on the riverfront though, that sits squarely oh the shoulders of the DIA. During the most sustained economic boom of our lifetimes, at a time when Jacksonville saw unprecedented immigration to our city, the DIA gave us multiple failed RFPs for Ford on Bay; a failed RFP with only one response for the private development pad at the Landing; lack of movement at Berkman 2; the mess on the Southbank with Related, the demolition of River City Brewing, and the lack of integration with the new tentative proposal and Friendship Park; endless delays and extensions at RiversEdge; and the glacial pace of getting parks built and completed.
I don't doubt that they are short-staffed, I don't doubt that they need true independence, and I don't discount the work they've done, but there's just no honest communication back out with the public in terms of where all of these initiatives that they go to press to herald actually stand. We get the grand announcement in the Daily Record and Biz Journal about retail enhancement corridors and two-way streets. We get the flashy render. Everyone pats themselves on the back. And then everyone disappears and nothing actually gets built.
Meanwhile, as a guy who does everything he possibly can to support downtown business, including choosing to come to the office 5 days a week, I still can't find a cup of coffee after 6 PM, the "Coming Soon" banners erected in front of historic building stock have weather and torn with age over the years, and its a crapshoot as to whether I'm going to have my life threatened by a random dude on fentanyl if I don't get to my car by sundown.
We need less talk, more action.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on January 12, 2024, 10:28:17 AM
There are groups who are doing great things in downtown, but there is not a "plan" for anything. The city chases the deal of the week, but there's no overarching plan.
In the absence of a master plan, just start with what AG Lafley said at the great cities symposium. Start with one block, make it great, and expand from there. Start with JWJ park and work you way out. Gateway Jax will help exponentially once you get past hogan street, but the far flung civic projects that are proposed for downtown will do less than a concentrated effort that builds on itself.
Fort Myers, where I was born and raised, has COMPLETELY revitalized its downtown through careful master planning and block-by-block execution of said master plan. When I left for college in 2000, it was a vacant 9-5 ghost town. Within a decade, it was an insanely vibrant 24-7 community with dozens of bars and restaurants, an urban Publix, new hotels, and a revitalized riverfront.
Here's a copy of the Master Plan, with hyper-detailed block-by-block recommendations for land use, transportation, parks, etc.
https://fortmyerscra.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/Downtown_Redevelopment_Pla.pdf
Contrast that with Jacksonville's "master plan," which speaks at a ten-thousand foot level and opens up with a reminder of all the things that were not even taken into consideration (transit, public safety, private land use, etc).
(https://snipboard.io/X38SqY.jpg)
Very, very last thing I'll say, in the DIA's defense is:
You get what you pay for. All the gaslighting and unrealized potential deeply frustrates me, but it is disingenuous to expect such a small group, with a limited budget, to turn around 60 years of flight and blight in a decade.
I'm a Jax native, and I've been living on the Southbank and working in Downtown for the past four years. I am also in that "young professional" demographic that the DIA so desperately wants to attract to the Downtown area. I can honestly say, when my friends from Charlotte, Nashville, or Atlanta visit, I am embarrassed to take them Downtown. Even though there are some cool spots that I enjoy (Ruby Beach/Volstead/Estrella) my out-of-town friends, without fail, ask where is everyone? They say it is like a scene out of the Walking Dead (even with the Zombies!)
At this point, I've almost given up on showcasing Downtown, and we will just visit San Marco, Riverside, or Avondale. So no, I can't see how the DIA or Lori Boyer should be getting any applause or kudos for the state of downtown. I am hopeful that some of the projects in the pipeline become a reality, but this is the City of Renderings after all.
Quote from: CityLife on January 12, 2024, 09:14:36 AM
The Downtown cheerleaders are so trapped in their own echo chamber, that I'm not sure they even have a grasp on reality.
Step 1: Execute your plans
Step 2: Brag
Here's my suggestion....
Step 1: Execute...
No bragging is necessary when the average person can see tower cranes and hear sounds of construction when walking on the street. There's no better marketing and sales pitch than seeing real life implementation and completion.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 12, 2024, 01:00:05 PM
Quote from: CityLife on January 12, 2024, 09:14:36 AM
The Downtown cheerleaders are so trapped in their own echo chamber, that I'm not sure they even have a grasp on reality.
Step 1: Execute your plans
Step 2: Brag
Here's my suggestion....
Step 1: Execute...
No bragging is necessary when the average person can see tower cranes and hear sounds of construction when walking on the street. There's no better marketing and sales pitch than seeing real life implementation and completion.
Best said my Friend, best said.
Quote from: Joey Mackey on January 12, 2024, 12:52:14 PM
I'm a Jax native, and I've been living on the Southbank and working in Downtown for the past four years. I am also in that "young professional" demographic that the DIA so desperately wants to attract to the Downtown area. I can honestly say, when my friends from Charlotte, Nashville, or Atlanta visit, I am embarrassed to take them Downtown. Even though there are some cool spots that I enjoy (Ruby Beach/Volstead/Estrella) my out-of-town friends, without fail, ask where is everyone? They say it is like a scene out of the Walking Dead (even with the Zombies!)
At this point, I've almost given up on showcasing Downtown, and we will just visit San Marco, Riverside, or Avondale. So no, I can't see how the DIA or Lori Boyer should be getting any applause or kudos for the state of downtown. I am hopeful that some of the projects in the pipeline become a reality, but this is the City of Renderings after all.
Fellow Jax native... bought a house 16 or 17 years ago right at the Hart Bridge because we thought Downtown was about to come up!! Finally left town almost a decade ago and am continually disappointed every time I return to visit famiy. Jax is doomed to be a city of unrealized potential.
I accepted downtown for what it was about 15 years ago. When I have guests in town, I do show them the area, but I'm also blunt and realistic about where things stand. At the same time, I also show off additional areas of the urban core and town, so that they can have a true understanding of Jax. Our culture, foods, environment, etc. is hard to compete with when you know how to experience the true identity of the region.
This is the type of nonsense I'd expect the DIA to take a firm stand against, even if means upsetting the DDRB or going outside of their swim lane.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2024/jan/16/amkin-applies-for-permit-to-build-10-million-downtown-parking-garage-addition/
10-story parking garage, directly adjacent to a Skyway station, with no ground floor retail.
Might not be their project, but if effects their efforts and investments nearby.
"The Garage Owner has plans for a new development;" yeah right. Why they wanna keep lying? Pie in the sky and Jax always believes these pathologicals.
Both, the DIA and DDRB basically gave their blessing on this garage project last year.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 16, 2024, 06:47:47 PM
Both, the DIA and DDRB basically gave their blessing on this garage project last year.
Garbage project? Is that what you said? I was watching the Tampa Bay/Philly football game last night, and they kept showing downtown Tampa, tall gleaming lit up skyscrapers and Troy Aikman and his sidekick kept praising downtown Tampa and talking about how the downtown had really changed and turned around and was alive. I thought of Jacksonville, and all I could think of about our downtown was parking lots, dark skyscrapers (the few that we have), no people, hardly any nightlife or people out at night dining, partying in bars and nightclubs, etc. It really made me angry and ashamed of our leaders; yes, our leaders, it's certainly not downtown's fault in and of itself!
Quote from: heights unknown on January 16, 2024, 09:32:51 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on January 16, 2024, 06:47:47 PM
Both, the DIA and DDRB basically gave their blessing on this garage project last year.
Garbage project? Is that what you said? I was watching the Tampa Bay/Philly football game last night, and they kept showing downtown Tampa, tall gleaming lit up skyscrapers and Troy Aikman and his sidekick kept praising downtown Tampa and talking about how the downtown had really changed and turned around and was alive. I thought of Jacksonville, and all I could think of about our downtown was parking lots, dark skyscrapers (the few that we have), no people, hardly any nightlife or people out at night dining, partying in bars and nightclubs, etc. It really made me angry and ashamed of our leaders; yes, our leaders, it's certainly not downtown's fault in and of itself!
Shhh. Don't tell Alex. The DIA has outside investors for the city! The DIA is working their tails off trying to make the shallow end of the pool deeper!
Amkin owns a significant % of downtown & almost nobody knows who they are. They have a track record of not caring what the DIA or DDRB have to say so... that's once again another example of council not giving enough authority to the DIA to intervene.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on January 16, 2024, 01:31:19 PM
This is the type of nonsense I'd expect the DIA to take a firm stand against, even if means upsetting the DDRB or going outside of their swim lane.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2024/jan/16/amkin-applies-for-permit-to-build-10-million-downtown-parking-garage-addition/
10-story parking garage, directly adjacent to a Skyway station, with no ground floor retail.
Might not be their project, but if effects their efforts and investments nearby.
Horrible product of the type that hopefully wouldn't be approved by the current roster of the DDRB moving forward.
Quote from: WarDamJagFan on January 17, 2024, 09:11:46 AM
Quote from: heights unknown on January 16, 2024, 09:32:51 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on January 16, 2024, 06:47:47 PM
Both, the DIA and DDRB basically gave their blessing on this garage project last year.
Garbage project? Is that what you said? I was watching the Tampa Bay/Philly football game last night, and they kept showing downtown Tampa, tall gleaming lit up skyscrapers and Troy Aikman and his sidekick kept praising downtown Tampa and talking about how the downtown had really changed and turned around and was alive. I thought of Jacksonville, and all I could think of about our downtown was parking lots, dark skyscrapers (the few that we have), no people, hardly any nightlife or people out at night dining, partying in bars and nightclubs, etc. It really made me angry and ashamed of our leaders; yes, our leaders, it's certainly not downtown's fault in and of itself!
Shhh. Don't tell Alex. The DIA has outside investors for the city! The DIA is working their tails off trying to make the shallow end of the pool deeper!
LOLOLOL.....DIA had better be careful; they don't have a very good track record of knowing how to swim. I would hate to see them dive into that so called deep end they've made and then drown!
Frankly, I think the DIA would be better run by an urban designer in the mold of a Jeff Speck or Victor Dover. Someone who can cast a people-oriented vision for downtown and cut through the bullshit that frankly has been holding us back. One of Jacksonville's biggest problems is everything is run by engineers and attorneys, and hardly anyone is thinking about the quality of the places we are designing and building.
Quote from: UrbanistInExile on January 19, 2024, 09:15:30 AM
Frankly, I think the DIA would be better run by an urban designer in the mold of a Jeff Speck or Victor Dover. Someone who can cast a people-oriented vision for downtown and cut through the bullshit that frankly has been holding us back. One of Jacksonville's biggest problems is everything is run by engineers and attorneys, and hardly anyone is thinking about the quality of the places we are designing and building.
Great post. Though neither of those guys would take the job and people of that caliber aren't easy to find.
I almost posted this the other day, but one of the DIA's biggest weaknesses is that virtually everyone there is doing their job for the first time and most either previously worked at COJ or are somehow politically connected. The DIA can use some outside blood with fresh ideas, ideally from someone with experience doing projects all over the place. The Miami DDA Head of Planning previously worked at world class firm EDSA doing projects all over the world. The DIA doesn't have anyone of that caliber and it shows with the poorly designed projects the City has gotten.
I'm sure Boyer has a lot of strengths, but a major weakness is the fact that she has surrounded herself with nothing but people that are either in or close to her circle in Jacksonville. IMO, the DIA can/could be successful with Boyer as CEO, but only with a strong Deputy Director that has high level experience as an architect, landscape architect, land planner, or urban designer and ideally has also worked in the public sector. Sometimes leaders are afraid to surround themselves with someone they perceive as competition, as it makes them more disposable if there are problems. But that often leads to poor results.
The DIA needs an infusion of new talent and ideas. Imo, instead of hiring inside the Jacksonville family, they should be hiring a headhunter and going after talented people at Miami, Tampa, Orlando, Atlanta, Nashville, Charlotte, etc's downtown development agencies or from large development firms.
Just put a few of these experts on the boards with the caveat that they aren't willing to sell their soul in order to get city work or piss off potential clients, that propose projects that do more harm than help. The caveat part is the hardest part of this locally, IMO. But it can be achieved. Staff will also need some guidance and support. A good working board should be able to bring that to the table.
Those with the real experience are also more likely to take a board position than tie their life and personal pocketbooks to the ups and downs and craziness that comes with public funded positions.
I wasn't suggesting hiring those guys specifically, but we need more outside talent for sure. This is the most backward place I've ever lived in from a design culture and urban design standpoint. It's like we are stuck in the 1960s-70s; we are Florida's frontier in urban placemaking, and hardly anyone in leadership or in control of the built environment here gets good, people-oriented design. And, the ones most vocal about the issues aren't designers (instead they are planners, policy people, nonprofit/citizen advocates) and they don't have the capability to bring it about.
Quote from: CityLife on January 19, 2024, 09:50:52 AM
Quote from: UrbanistInExile on January 19, 2024, 09:15:30 AM
Frankly, I think the DIA would be better run by an urban designer in the mold of a Jeff Speck or Victor Dover. Someone who can cast a people-oriented vision for downtown and cut through the bullshit that frankly has been holding us back. One of Jacksonville's biggest problems is everything is run by engineers and attorneys, and hardly anyone is thinking about the quality of the places we are designing and building.
Great post. Though neither of those guys would take the job and people of that caliber aren't easy to find.
I almost posted this the other day, but one of the DIA's biggest weaknesses is that virtually everyone there is doing their job for the first time and most either previously worked at COJ or are somehow politically connected. The DIA can use some outside blood with fresh ideas, ideally from someone with experience doing projects all over the place. The Miami DDA Head of Planning previously worked at world class firm EDSA doing projects all over the world. The DIA doesn't have anyone of that caliber and it shows with the poorly designed projects the City has gotten.
I'm sure Boyer has a lot of strengths, but a major weakness is the fact that she has surrounded herself with nothing but people that are either in or close to her circle in Jacksonville. IMO, the DIA can/could be successful with Boyer as CEO, but only with a strong Deputy Director that has high level experience as an architect, landscape architect, land planner, or urban designer and ideally has also worked in the public sector. Sometimes leaders are afraid to surround themselves with someone they perceive as competition, as it makes them more disposable if there are problems. But that often leads to poor results.
The DIA needs an infusion of new talent and ideas. Imo, instead of hiring inside the Jacksonville family, they should be hiring a headhunter and going after talented people at Miami, Tampa, Orlando, Atlanta, Nashville, Charlotte, etc's downtown development agencies or from large development firms.
Quote from: CityLife on January 19, 2024, 09:50:52 AM
I almost posted this the other day, but one of the DIA's biggest weaknesses is that virtually everyone there is doing their job for the first time and most either previously worked at COJ or are somehow politically connected. The DIA can use some outside blood with fresh ideas, ideally from someone with experience doing projects all over the place.
The DIA needs an infusion of new talent and ideas. Imo, instead of hiring inside the Jacksonville family, they should be hiring a headhunter and going after talented people at Miami, Tampa, Orlando, Atlanta, Nashville, Charlotte, etc's downtown development agencies or from large development firms.
This, again, is part of my frustration with the DIA. It's not a personal affront to Lori Boyer to suggest we should have brought in someone with proven experience in downtown revitalization vs. hiring a local because of their "passion."
And let's not forget how wonky the voting process was that put her in power.
We did, in fact, conduct a nationwide search through Jorgenson Consulting when looking to fill the role of DIA CEO in 2019, which yielded strong finalists from Kansas City (who has run laps around Jacksonville in the last 15 years with downtown redevelopment) and New Orleans.
At the time, there was almost universal recognition that Greg Flisram from Kansas City was extremely qualified, with a proven track record of major downtown redevelopment wins.
When it came time to pick a winner, Lori Boyer narrowly beat Flisram (356 points vs. 346 points) in a vote from the DIA Board that violated Sunshine Laws because scorecards were filled out anonymously (nothing shady about that!).
As a reminder, here are the details:
https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/news/local/jacksonville-dia-board-violated-sunshine-law-attorneys-say/77-131c4640-06ad-449e-80f9-0cd8165fe183
QuoteThe individual scoring sheets submitted anonymously by board members show how close the choice was between Boyer and Flisram.
Based on the individual scoring, three board members put Boyer as their top choice, three board members scored Flisram as the best applicant, one board member's evaluation put Boyer and Flisram in a tie for the top score, and one board member gave the highest score to Hanna.
The individual scoring sheets show four board members gave their second-highest score to Flisram, two board members gave the second-highest tally to Boyer, and two gave their second-highest scores to Hanna.
If you discounted the scoring, and just looked at the popular vote, Flisram actually won, with an equal number of first place votes as Boyer, along with twice as many second place votes.
(https://snipboard.io/YxmTGI.jpg)
So, how could Flisram lose on scoring when he had the same number of first place votes as Boyer, twice as many second place votes, and no third-place votes (vs. two for Boyer)?
When a re-vote was held and board members were forced to put their name on ballots, it turned out that Boyer's win pretty much came down to one board member, Oliver Barakat, who scored scored Boyer three points ahead of the other board member's average (47 points vs. 44 points), and who scored Flisram an insane
12 points below the other board member's average (33 points vs. 45 points).
QuoteEach board member could give a maximum of 50 points. Boyer's margin came largely from one board member who awarded her 47 points, far ahead of 33 points for Flisram and 31 points for Hanna. That 14-point margin for Boyer made the difference when she emerged as the top scorer from the total votes of all board members by 10 points over Flisram.
Not saying it was a fix or anything (a lot of DIA votes seem to be decided by one outlier tanking the second place candidate), but Oliver Barakat's quote about part of that decision making is really frustrating as someone who wants to see downtown improve yesterday, rather than tomorrow. The internet? Fear of carpetbagging?
QuoteCouncilwoman picked to lead DIA
Board cites Lori Boyer's passion as she beats out candidates from New Orleans and Kansas City
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/2019/05/16/dia-picks-jacksonville-city-councilwoman-lori-boyer-as-new-ceo/5152184007/
Lori Boyer, whose background in finance and deep understanding of city issues saw her become a leading voice on the Jacksonville City Council during her soon-to-end tenure, will be the new CEO of the Downtown Investment Authority.
The DIA's board of directors picked Boyer on Tuesday after interviewing her and two other finalists, Greg Flisram, a senior vice president for the Economic Development Corp. of Kansas City, and Kevin Hanna, who was a finalist for the DIA's top job in 2013 and has worked for the New Orleans Redevelopment Authority.
While Boyer has never worked for a downtown development agency, the board was still impressed by her resume — before politics, she worked as an attorney and an executive of real-estate and management companies — as well as her familiarity with downtown and Jacksonville's political landscape.
"I don't think there's a more passionate candidate," said board member Carol Worsham.
Boyer has held her district council seat, which represents San Marco and the surrounding area, since 2011. Term limits will force her to step down this summer.
During her first term, she quickly built a reputation as a sharp legislator who wasn't afraid to dig into the weeds. She scrutinized and opposed many of former Mayor Alvin Brown's initiatives in the waning years of his administration, although her commentary was measured and absent of the bomb-throwing rhetoric used by her colleagues.
These days, she's adopted a much friendlier tone with the Mayor's Office and has become one of Mayor Lenny Curry's strongest allies on the council.
The biggest hurdle Boyer had to overcome in the interview process was a recent opinion from the State Ethics Commission restricting her from lobbying the council for the next two years. The two-year lobbying ban comes from a state law aimed at shuttering the "revolving door" of legislators leaving public office and taking jobs to lobby the same body they served on.
Board members said they were concerned that she wouldn't be able to directly communicate with council members, who must approve deals the DIA uses to entice development, and asked Boyer how she would deal with the restriction.
Boyer acknowledged it would be a "handicap," but she said her experience on the council would give the DIA's initiatives credibility with council members, even if she couldn't personally speak with them. And if the DIA needed to lobby the council, Boyer said the agency could hire a lobbyist to handle that work until her cooling-off period expires.
When asked about her vision for downtown, Boyer said one of her goals would be increasing downtown's residential population to 10,000 residents in the next five years. She said accomplishing that goal would be a major step toward turning downtown into a thriving place.
"Industry relocates based on talent pool. Talent pool looks for a vibrant downtown," she said.
The other finalists impressed the board with their real-world experience in downtown redevelopment, and several board members pondered whether bringing an outsider would breathe fresh air into the city's fledgling, and at times struggling, downtown.
"I want a candidate who has been there and done this for a bigger city," said board member Todd Froats.
Board member Oliver Barakat countered Froats, saying that there are also risks in bringing in an outsider.
"We've had out-of-town people come in and bring in new ideas, but they didn't stick around," Barakat said. "With the internet, I don't think it takes a lot of work to figure out the best practices (from around the country.)"
The board members scored each candidate after their interviews, and Boyer emerged with the highest score. The board didn't say who finished second or third.
Can't help but wonder where we'd be right now if we would have had someone with real world experience, rather than learning on the job, heading up the DIA during this last economic cycle.
Will continue to beat the drum that we need proven outside blood heading up the effort.
What we're doing just ain't working.
^Nice receipts Ken. Keep up the good fight, sir. Made me go back and look through this thread during her hiring:
https://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,35513.0.html
I realize now that I'm a broken record, as I posted this back in that thread in 2019.
Quote"An opinion issued in April from the Florida Commission of Ethics says a former City Council member is not allowed to represent a group or the city's interests before the council for two years following their term.
In her interview, she said DIA staff would be used to address the City Council for routine issues, while an outside lobbyist could be hired to represent DIA interests with elected officials for larger development deals."
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/boyer-selected-as-next-downtown-investment-authority-ceo
While Boyer is sharp, has vision, and knows the lay of the land locally; she has no experience running a Downtown Development agency and presumably has minimal development connections outside of Jacksonville. The DIA is going to need a strong number 2. Hopefully, Boyer and co will look for a rising talent from outside of Jacksonville. Ideally someone from Orlando, WPB, Miami, Ft. Lauderdale, or Tampa's downtown agencies; or even someone from Atlanta, Nashville, Charlotte, etc.
It really is insane that they didn't create a Deputy Director position, with Boyer's lack of administrative experience, no outside connections, and two year ban from Council representation. Had a quality #2 been hired back then, there would be a clear and obvious successor in place. Without one, it's much harder to ever get rid of Boyer without a major setback to DIA operations for 6 months to a year. Sweet deal for Boyer. The City? TBD.
That is all in the past though and some mistakes can be blamed on the Mayor. Moving forward, the DIA really needs some big wins in the next year or so. There are no more excuses.
This is the first time I've seen a detailed explainer of how the selection of Boyer went down, and it pretty much explains everything.
^The process of picking agency, department, commission, board, etc. heads in Jax echoes the above nearly always. Same for picking contractors. If you are local, due to the weighting of "scoring" systems (i.e. rigging the outcome), you are almost always assured a win, no matter how inexperienced you are and how experienced the outsider is.
And, if an outsider does get picked, it is based more on politics than qualifications.
Just look at the State surgeon general, recent college presidents at some state schools, etc.
It is how Zahn was picked to lead JEA or Joe Peppers the Kids Hope Alliance.
Almost every time, it harms the public's interest and is why government often gets black eyes.
Just now catching up on this thread.
Everyone here seems to think the DIA is intended to be independent and has the final authority on things concerning DT. While that is what it NEEDS to be, it is not. It is part and parcel a part of city government and thus will 100% be beholden to city politics.
Wasn't the former DDA under Mayor Delaney and Austin and independent agency just like JEA and Jaxport? Seems like they had a lot more control and authority than the DIA has. Frank Nero was the head of it before he went to Miami to head up their DT agency.
Nero was in charge when LaVilla was razed. Even today, there are a lot of references to his name and era from people who were around back then.
Quote from: vicupstate on January 21, 2024, 08:42:54 AM
Just now catching up on this thread.
Everyone here seems to think the DIA is intended to be independent and has the final authority on things concerning DT. While that is what it NEEDS to be, it is not. It is part and parcel a part of city government and thus will 100% be beholden to city politics.
Wasn't the former DDA under Mayor Delaney and Austin and independent agency just like JEA and Jaxport? Seems like they had a lot more control and authority than the DIA has. Frank Nero was the head of it before he went to Miami to head up their DT agency.
Agreed 1000%. If the DIA had any real authority then I would be on board with assigning the blame to the DIA. They are literally a board to make recommendations & keep all the agencies that actually do have real power aligned. I think it's misguided to say Lori or the DIA is responsible for the current landscape.
You'd have to completely disregard:
- The lack of any transit
- A 2,000+ bed jail in our city center
- Decades of issues surrounding demolition
- Concentrating low-income housing
- A 3.9 square mile DT (inability to focus on one smaller area)
Plug literally anybody in that role & I can tell you with 90% certainty that our outcome wouldn't be that much different than where we're at today. The unfortunate reality that people just literally can't comprehend is that our DT is not "desirable" and prices indicate that. I don't wanna hear about the "rent psf" downtown because that only applies to the Southbank & Brooklyn. Everywhere else in DT has above average vacancy, with below average rent. Throwing up parks on a blighted riverfront doesn't solve anything in the short-term.
My biggest gripe with the DIA is guidance. Why are they trying to get skyscrapers when we can't even build 10-stories for-profit? That makes no sense, but its not their fault we are in this mess. Blame JTA, City Council, and other key players that A). got us here & B). continue to be hurdles for real change. We will never have TOD's downtown (Artea isn't a TOD) and we will continue to no be eligible for very simple programs that virtually any other city in the US qualifies for.
Razing LaVilla was a mistake but doing so was part of Ed Austin's River City Renaissance. Not being able to infill LaVilla for 30 years except with a middle school is the biggest example of how badly DT has been managed since. It took decades to build anything except some heavily subsidies residential projects.
Quote from: Jax_Developer on January 21, 2024, 11:31:56 AM
Quote from: vicupstate on January 21, 2024, 08:42:54 AM
Just now catching up on this thread.
Everyone here seems to think the DIA is intended to be independent and has the final authority on things concerning DT. While that is what it NEEDS to be, it is not. It is part and parcel a part of city government and thus will 100% be beholden to city politics.
Wasn't the former DDA under Mayor Delaney and Austin and independent agency just like JEA and Jaxport? Seems like they had a lot more control and authority than the DIA has. Frank Nero was the head of it before he went to Miami to head up their DT agency.
Plug literally anybody in that role & I can tell you with 90% certainty that our outcome wouldn't be that much different than where we're at today. The unfortunate reality that people just literally can't comprehend is that our DT is not "desirable" and prices indicate that. I don't wanna hear about the "rent psf" downtown because that only applies to the Southbank & Brooklyn. Everywhere else in DT has above average vacancy, with below average rent.
Which property has above average vacancy? All market-rate properties in the Northbank (Barnett, Metro Lofts, 11 East, Carling, WA Knight Building, JWB Church Street Apts) are all currently between 97%-100% occupancy and have maintained 95%+ occupancy for the last 10 years with the exception of the Barnett and Church St which were not open.
These vacancy numbers are below average for the metro area which is averaging 94%-96% occupancy
Quote from: Jax_Developer on January 21, 2024, 11:31:56 AM
Quote from: vicupstate on January 21, 2024, 08:42:54 AM
Just now catching up on this thread.
Everyone here seems to think the DIA is intended to be independent and has the final authority on things concerning DT. While that is what it NEEDS to be, it is not. It is part and parcel a part of city government and thus will 100% be beholden to city politics.
Wasn't the former DDA under Mayor Delaney and Austin and independent agency just like JEA and Jaxport? Seems like they had a lot more control and authority than the DIA has. Frank Nero was the head of it before he went to Miami to head up their DT agency.
Agreed 1000%. If the DIA had any real authority then I would be on board with assigning the blame to the DIA. They are literally a board to make recommendations & keep all the agencies that actually do have real power aligned. I think it's misguided to say Lori or the DIA is responsible for the current landscape.
I'm just a sucker for accountability, and despite all the machinations behind the scenes that drag down everything we do locally, I think it's totally fair to judge the DIA by the things that they've gone to the press to claim ownership of.
From a marketing perspective, lets look at the outcome of the major RFPs that the DIA has headed up over the last 6 years.
1.
2018 Convention Center RFP. The DIA issued an absurdly unrealistic RFP for a new 200,000 square foot Convention Center. A lot of highly respectable firms put a lot of time and money into their responses. In the end, all parties involved got burned when DIA backtracked and said that Jacksonville wasn't ready for a new convention center after all. Did Curry tank this one to appease Shad? Probably. But it was still a DIA issued RFP (in the Aundra Wallace days) that seemed divorced from reality in terms of scope.
2.
2019 LaVilla Townhomes RFP. A second botched RFP, this one for the Townhomes in LaVilla, choosing a retail-less Vestcor development over a significantly better, more historically appropriate Johnson Commons alternative, with retail. This was another one where scoring was wonky, and the DIA ultimately urged the winner Vestcor to alter their design to be more like the losing design by Johnson Commons. Three years were wasted on the project, with Vestcor eventually backing out and Johnson Commons graciously coming back.
3.
2020 Ford on Bay RFP. The second DIA RFP on the property to fail within two years. Spandrel selected by DIA as the winner, but things fall apart when Spandrel wants to change their design and when everyone figures out that the DIA didn't technically have the right to offer up half the property due to a right-of-first refusal held by the Hyatt. Whoops. Another two years wasted.
3.
2021 Ford on Bay RFP The DIA executing a third botched RFP, for Ford on Bay, this one inexplicably waiving the requirement for retail on Bay Street. Despite stating at the time that they were looking for a developer willing to break ground immediately, the winner (Carter) was given a runway of over two years to work out a development agreement. I believe said agreement would have needed to have been completed last week for this one to not fall apart.
4.
2021 Riverfront Plaza Park RFP. The DIA issues an RFP heavily weighted toward public art. When it came time to score, Parks+Will was chosen as the winner
specifically because of their JAX art installation. After public criticism of the "Lerp" statue, the DIA completely backtracks, stating that the sculpture might not even be affordable, making a complete mockery of the selection process.
5.
2023 Riverfront Plaza Private Development Pad RFP. The DIA publicly justifies the rushed demolition of the Jacksonville Landing and the displacement of 30+ businesses because they claim it will make the site more marketable to private development for the RFP. Said RFP - inexplicably pushing for an office user - yields exactly one response, for a wildly unrealistic skyscraper that will require historic levels of publicly subsidy. Despite the fact that said tower is clearly dead, the DIA is still pushing for phased construction of the new Riverfront Plaza park to accommodate the phantom tower.
In terms of marketing Downtown Jacksonville to outside investors or companies for corporate relocation, during one of the biggest population booms of our lifetime, how many outside companies have relocated to downtown Jacksonville? How many national and international investors have projects that have broken ground downtown in the last six years?
What about the DIA's other big-ticket plans?
In early 2020, they announced their Food & Retail Corridor plan, with a list of restaurants they were targeting for downtown relocation. How many did they manage to land, even with 50% subsidies for capital improvements?
Quotehttps://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2020/jan/17/the-plan-to-spur-downtown-dining-includes-incentives-for-restaurants/
Here is the list of Jacksonville restaurants that the DIA could target for expansion Downtown. The list was created by the jaxrestaurantreviews.com blog as examples of restaurants that would draw people Downtown. DIA officials said the list is preliminary and restaurants could be added.
• 4 Rivers Smokehouse
• Angie's Subs
• The Bearded Pig
• Catullo's
• Cinotti's Bakery and Sandwich Shop
• Domu
• Doro
• Fish Camps/Valley Smoke
• Fish House Group (Orange Park Fish House, Beach Road Fish & Chicken Dinners)
• The French Pantry
• Le Petit Paris
• Pie95 Pizza and Catering
• Safe Harbor Seafood
• Sliders Oyster Bar
• Picasso's
• Soul Food Bistro
• Terra Gaucha
How about the plans to start two-way conversion of downtown streets announced in 2019?
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2019/oct/18/boyer-advocates-for-downtown-density/
Again, there are clearly roadblocks at City Hall that may have prevented the two-waying of streets, the completion of parks, the disposition of land, etc.
But at the end of the day, you can't bat .100 on projects you claim in your self-congratulatory marketing material (the riverfront, the Trio, the parks, Jones Bros, Independent Life, Ambassador Hotel, Chamblins Apartments, Related Skyscraper, the District) and expect no pushback when everyone gets their contract unanimously renewed and another half-decade is squandered with nothing but demolition to show for it. I wouldn't get 10% as fired up about if it there was some acknowledgment of the issues from the agencies tasked with fixing them and I wasn't instead made to feel crazy for not feeling the historic momentum on the streets.
It brings me absolutely no glee to be critical. Those who know me know that I'm a pretty positive dude. But I think it's disingenuous to absolve the DIA of any responsibility for the current landscape when we've seen time and time again that they're pushing for and allowing the wrong things. No retail on Bay Street. A Related restaurant on the Southbank that doesn't interface with Friendship Park. Office use at the Landing. A 200,000 square foot convention center. An innovation corridor that removes on-street parking from Bay Street. Retail-less Townhome developments in LaVilla. A convention center 15 blocks from the CBD in a location currently occupied by a prison when an expansion of the Hyatt's convention space could start driving vibrancy tomorrow. Endless futile RFPs. The end-all be-all goal of 10k residents. This isn't all on the city putting a gun to someone's head.
It doesn't reflect a lack of effort. Doesn't reflect bad faith. But we're gonna be spinning our wheels forever if we don't start bringing in some outside all-stars who are willing to fight tooth and nail with City Hall - independent or not - to push back against some of the major mistakes that we've made during this current DIA run in terms of historic demolition, land use, outside marketing, RFP process, transportation planning, parks, etc. Even if it takes adding a zero to the end of the salary, it'll pay for itself.
And, that's the
very last I'll personally say about it.
It's spilled milk at this point. I've got a lot of faith in our new mayor and some very smart people she has guiding her.
I'm ready to be proven wrong. Clean slate.
I can't keep eating Jimmy John's like four times a week. It ain't healthy for a guy.
Let's go.
Quote from: Zac T on January 21, 2024, 01:01:17 PM
Quote from: Jax_Developer on January 21, 2024, 11:31:56 AM
Quote from: vicupstate on January 21, 2024, 08:42:54 AM
Just now catching up on this thread.
Everyone here seems to think the DIA is intended to be independent and has the final authority on things concerning DT. While that is what it NEEDS to be, it is not. It is part and parcel a part of city government and thus will 100% be beholden to city politics.
Wasn't the former DDA under Mayor Delaney and Austin and independent agency just like JEA and Jaxport? Seems like they had a lot more control and authority than the DIA has. Frank Nero was the head of it before he went to Miami to head up their DT agency.
Plug literally anybody in that role & I can tell you with 90% certainty that our outcome wouldn't be that much different than where we're at today. The unfortunate reality that people just literally can't comprehend is that our DT is not "desirable" and prices indicate that. I don't wanna hear about the "rent psf" downtown because that only applies to the Southbank & Brooklyn. Everywhere else in DT has above average vacancy, with below average rent.
Which property has above average vacancy? All market-rate properties in the Northbank (Barnett, Metro Lofts, 11 East, Carling, WA Knight Building, JWB Church Street Apts) are all currently between 97%-100% occupancy and have maintained 95%+ occupancy for the last 10 years with the exception of the Barnett and Church St which were not open.
These vacancy numbers are below average for the metro area which is averaging 94%-96% occupancy
Office & Retail vacancy downtown are above our metro averages. Retail sales in the Northbank are 2/3 the value of our MSA average. Our northbank office property has lower than average rental rates. The same submarket that has skyscraper office space. We have like 1.3M square feet of vacancy just on the Northbank alone right now.
The residential market doesn't have an accurate comparison yet because well, there's really no market-rate apartments on the Northbank. We're talking about less than 2,000 free market units for the entire submarket. Supply demonstrates the lack of demand there. There isn't a single RE sector on the Northbank that is doing better than average, or has in quite a while. Otherwise, the apartment market wouldn't be non-existent.
—
Ken, I agree with you that the RFP's have had issues. I do agree they are responsible for some very botched proposals. I don't think they are all the DIA's responsibility however. The Ford on Bay & the American Lions building are very difficult parcels to be built on right now. The other botches are where I see real issue. They don't seem to understand the market when they make public comment on what they "want" in those same RFP's.
That wish list of restaurants should have never been published. I get the desire to have said types of businesses in downtown but it doesn't do anyone any favors in the effort to bring it to fruition. The pandemic didn't help either. F&B will generally need to cluster to be more successful. A refurbished space like the Landing would have been a viable spot for a development entity to work with.
Quote from: Jax_Developer on January 21, 2024, 11:31:56 AM
The unfortunate reality that people just literally can't comprehend is that our DT is not "desirable" and prices indicate that. I don't wanna hear about the "rent psf" downtown because that only applies to the Southbank & Brooklyn. Everywhere else in DT has above average vacancy, with below average rent. Throwing up parks on a blighted riverfront doesn't solve anything in the short-term.
JD, I agree that DT is not desirable. But, by the end of your statements above, you hit on what I say would help make it desirable so not sure of your approach. Active parks, attractive streetscapes, good mass transit (WITHIN, not just without, Downtown), quality public infrastructure, historic preservation and good zoning will make DT desirable. Nothing else will compare despite best efforts by developers. They can't do it alone. No developer has the scope and scale to do what City Hall can do to make DT desirable.
I have long advocated that the City should invest in the above before considering incentives for developers to maximize ROI for the taxpayers and developers. Just look at the pictures of what downtowns look like elsewhere as posted in Jaxson articles.
The only positive we have is, ultimately, the Emerald Trail. Maybe when City leaders see the impact of that, they will get the message finally.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on January 22, 2024, 06:02:39 PM
Quote from: Jax_Developer on January 21, 2024, 11:31:56 AM
The unfortunate reality that people just literally can't comprehend is that our DT is not "desirable" and prices indicate that. I don't wanna hear about the "rent psf" downtown because that only applies to the Southbank & Brooklyn. Everywhere else in DT has above average vacancy, with below average rent. Throwing up parks on a blighted riverfront doesn't solve anything in the short-term.
JD, I agree that DT is not desirable. But, by the end of your statements above, you hit on what I say would help make it desirable so not sure of your approach. Active parks, attractive streetscapes, good mass transit (WITHIN, not just without, Downtown), quality public infrastructure, historic preservation and good zoning will make DT desirable. Nothing else will compare despite best efforts by developers. They can't do it alone. No developer has the scope and scale to do what City Hall can do to make DT
Preach!
With parks and projects progressing in Brooklyn, LaVilla, and the CBD, I don't know if there's a single more baffling miss than the JTA abandoning plans for a no-frills Skyway Station in Brooklyn.
Cost of the station was put at roughly $500k to $800k in 2020 by JTA (https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2020/03/13/on-road-new-skyway-station-planned-for-jacksonvillersquos-booming-brooklyn-area/112246466/).
Pound for pound, I don't know if there's a better half million, or million, to be spent anywhere else downtown.
Hopefully this is something the new administration might be able to make a push for.
JTA is baffling altogether. They have all the resources in the world and a community that actually desires better mass transit options....yet mysterious finds ways to spend big bucks getting the basics wrong. That Brooklyn station is one of several examples. Instead, we'll spend nearly $20 million on a U2C shed on a street where a Whole Foods is going up, when we already have three similar facilities within walking distance.
I think it is super important that the city is aligned with JTA and we are very far from that. It would be nice to see all parts come together, but it always seems like every part works in a vacuum. Also shows why a thorough master plan can make a difference.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on January 22, 2024, 06:02:39 PM
Quote from: Jax_Developer on January 21, 2024, 11:31:56 AM
The unfortunate reality that people just literally can't comprehend is that our DT is not "desirable" and prices indicate that. I don't wanna hear about the "rent psf" downtown because that only applies to the Southbank & Brooklyn. Everywhere else in DT has above average vacancy, with below average rent. Throwing up parks on a blighted riverfront doesn't solve anything in the short-term.
JD, I agree that DT is not desirable. But, by the end of your statements above, you hit on what I say would help make it desirable so not sure of your approach. Active parks, attractive streetscapes, good mass transit (WITHIN, not just without, Downtown), quality public infrastructure, historic preservation and good zoning will make DT desirable. Nothing else will compare despite best efforts by developers. They can't do it alone. No developer has the scope and scale to do what City Hall can do to make DT desirable.
I have long advocated that the City should invest in the above before considering incentives for developers to maximize ROI for the taxpayers and developers. Just look at the pictures of what downtowns look like elsewhere as posted in Jaxson articles.
The only positive we have is, ultimately, the Emerald Trail. Maybe when City leaders see the impact of that, they will get the message finally.
I think that an investment into the park system is fine, but it needs to be accompanied by a well-positioned master plan for private investment. There really isn't much justification for the Riverfront Park system, unless there is an economic motive
at this point. We still have the Riverwalk, the city/government still owns all of the "water" & there are several existing parks on the river. I live DT & I assure you there is no lack of park space. We need to actually finish and utilize what we already have. There are literally 0 food & beverage stands along the entire Riverwalk & I find that ironic considering the scope of what we are building now.
They need to be able to activate the park system to actualize the benefits. I'm super pleased with the investment sparking around the Emerald Trail, and that is an example of a green beltway that I think will bring the city a positive ROI. I'm just pessimistic about the idea that adding
more riverfront parks is somehow going to change the blight on the Northbank.
Ultimately, the conversation around the jail is very relevant for this small hyperlocal area, combined with the city owning a lot of acreage compared to private landholders in this 'hyperlocal area'.. It just really doesn't make sense from an urban planning sense. The Gateway development will be the node that sparks the Northbank (I pray) and that will be located more than 5 city blocks from the closest Riverwalk "area" & currently there is a development "vaccum" near the River itself on the Northbank. Hopefully it works out in the LR, but I guarantee you that we will have quite the OPEX before any private investment is going vertical within any proximity of the new park system. Aka, going to be hard to bring life to these 8-figure parks.
--
JTA is the biggest "authority" hurdle to DT development, not the DIA.
Quote from: Jax_Developer on January 22, 2024, 07:41:42 PM
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on January 22, 2024, 06:02:39 PM
Quote from: Jax_Developer on January 21, 2024, 11:31:56 AM
The unfortunate reality that people just literally can't comprehend is that our DT is not "desirable" and prices indicate that. I don't wanna hear about the "rent psf" downtown because that only applies to the Southbank & Brooklyn. Everywhere else in DT has above average vacancy, with below average rent. Throwing up parks on a blighted riverfront doesn't solve anything in the short-term.
JD, I agree that DT is not desirable. But, by the end of your statements above, you hit on what I say would help make it desirable so not sure of your approach. Active parks, attractive streetscapes, good mass transit (WITHIN, not just without, Downtown), quality public infrastructure, historic preservation and good zoning will make DT desirable. Nothing else will compare despite best efforts by developers. They can't do it alone. No developer has the scope and scale to do what City Hall can do to make DT desirable.
I have long advocated that the City should invest in the above before considering incentives for developers to maximize ROI for the taxpayers and developers. Just look at the pictures of what downtowns look like elsewhere as posted in Jaxson articles.
The only positive we have is, ultimately, the Emerald Trail. Maybe when City leaders see the impact of that, they will get the message finally.
I think that an investment into the park system is fine, but it needs to be accompanied by a well-positioned master plan for private investment. There really isn't much justification for the Riverfront Park system, unless there is an economic motive at this point. We still have the Riverwalk, the city/government still owns all of the "water" & there are several existing parks on the river. I live DT & I assure you there is no lack of park space. We need to actually finish and utilize what we already have. There are literally 0 food & beverage stands along the entire Riverwalk & I find that ironic considering the scope of what we are building now.
They need to be able to activate the park system to actualize the benefits. I'm super pleased with the investment sparking around the Emerald Trail, and that is an example of a green beltway that I think will bring the city a positive ROI. I'm just pessimistic about the idea that adding more riverfront parks is somehow going to change the blight on the Northbank.
Ultimately, the conversation around the jail is very relevant for this small hyperlocal area, combined with the city owning a lot of acreage compared to private landholders in this 'hyperlocal area'.. It just really doesn't make sense from an urban planning sense. The Gateway development will be the node that sparks the Northbank (I pray) and that will be located more than 5 city blocks from the closest Riverwalk "area" & currently there is a development "vaccum" near the River itself on the Northbank. Hopefully it works out in the LR, but I guarantee you that we will have quite the OPEX before any private investment is going vertical within any proximity of the new park system. Aka, going to be hard to bring life to these 8-figure parks.
--
JTA is the biggest "authority" hurdle to DT development, not the DIA.
Across significantly developed Downtowns, the common regrets are that they didn't plan ahead for affordable housing and they didn't plan ahead for quality public green space. They wish they had more of both. Despite the doom/gloom of the present moment, Jacksonville's Downtown will build up, populate, become more active and dense. Jax is smart to learn lessons from our peers, take steps to secure both affordable housing and green space. Speaking of the later specifically, quality public space is a catalyst for adjacent investment. It's a good model to follow. Jax has 0 high quality parks, so the Average Joe may have a hard time envisioning how a park could incentivize investment, but the investment near Memorial Park and along the Emerald Trail would be most similar. Totally agree that half assing an attempt at a high quality destination park would be a major set back/opportunity lost. Details matter. Hope COJ puts forth the effort to ensure success, which will likely mean getting out of their traditional comfort zone. And I highly doubt that the public will be funding $500+ mill for a billionaires private enterprise, and not fully fund the public spaces that surround them. The optics would cataclysmic.
One aspect of extensive parkland along the river, instead of private commercial and residential development is a little thing called climate change and rising sea and river levels. A properly designed park can withstand periodic flooding much better than commercial or residential buildings. I guess you could build them on stilts, but what does that do to pedestrian interaction that we all want?
I think Charles & Ken we both agree on what we want the outcome to be, we just disagree on how to get there. I want the green space along the river to increase & I want there to be actual amenities (nothing crazy) along our Riverwalk. I just wholeheartedly think there is a very simple solution using code & deed restrictions to achieve a better result.
Charles you mentioned climate control, flooding etc. We as a city are one of the worst prepared DT's for a major flood event according to some study I read up on last year. If I find it I'll attach it here. When you build property that impacts the Riverfront, there are standards that they have to build. Whether it's private or public, theoretically these same standards are met. My argument is that 1). The City has a poor track record at maintaining public spaces. 2). Private investment can generate tons more income to actually justify localized flood prevention systems. 3). The ability to invest into the "existing" park spaces shoots up dramatically.
I think making the land private, while requiring "more" ground-floor green space with retail, makes total sense. Our Riverfront land doesn't need to be built on right to the water, but leaving acres & acres of land to become new park space w/o much else is such a waste of public resources.
I really think what I have in mind achieve's the same goals you both seek Charles & FSU. Our new River Park system will collectively be larger than entire city core downtown's of smaller cities. Us as a city never gave an alternative a real chance, and to this day there really hasn't been any public input on what they are doing now. Just some pop ups with limited seats. Very Jacksonville to just do what's easy instead of trying to make this space generationally beneficial. I really don't think the public has any idea of the true impacts that will be created from this plan & it scares me to think that this could be a huge reason why the Northbank doesn't have that spark it needs near the Riverfront. Berkman II & the old courthouse parcels will basically be the only new development we will see on the River EVER & I find that really shocking.
Quote from: Jax_Developer on January 23, 2024, 08:15:27 AM
I think Charles & Ken we both agree on what we want the outcome to be, we just disagree on how to get there. I want the green space along I really think what I have in mind achieve's the same goals you both seek Charles & FSU. Our new River Park system will collectively be larger than entire city core downtown's of smaller cities... It scares me to think that this could be a huge reason why the Northbank doesn't have that spark it needs near the Riverfront. Berkman II & the old courthouse parcels will basically be the only new development we will see on the River EVER & I find that really shocking.
I actually do agree with this sentiment is well. As a city, we badly need great riverfront park space, but for how study-happy we are as a metro, it's kind of wild that we've never seen a study commissioned on how much riverfront park space we actually have reasonable demand for in the next 30 years. In a city with dozens of miles of publicly available beachfront, and a downtown that isn't that densely populated, is there truly a market for 8 different riverfront parks totaling something like 80 acres?
1. Metro Park
2. Four Seasons Greenspace
3. Shipyards West
4. Riverfront Plaza Park
5. McCoy's Creek Park
6. Friendship Park
7. RiversEdge Park
8. Times-Union Center Music Heritage Park
To me, just like with the LaVilla Link along the Emerald Trail, I'd almost want to focus all budget and attention on one or two of these parks to start. Add the type of supporting amenities you speak of. Hire good park staff. Program them regularly.
Assuming these parks plans all come to fruition, I worry that we're going to stretch budget and users so thinly across each one that none of them are really going to succeed like they could.
Seems wiser to do fewer parks really, really well than to try to simultaneously park the entire riverfront.
Quote from: Jax_Developer on January 23, 2024, 08:15:27 AM
Us as a city never gave an alternative a real chance, and to this day there really hasn't been any public input on what they are doing now. Just some pop ups with limited seats. Very Jacksonville to just do what's easy instead of trying to make this space generationally beneficial. I really don't think the public has any idea of the true impacts that will be created from this plan & it scares me to think that this could be a huge reason why the Northbank doesn't have that spark it needs.
This, to a letter, has been my major frustration with a park that I'd argue has potential to be even more catalytic than anything on the riverfront - James Weldon Johnson Park. Key decisions about the long-term future of maybe the most strategically important block in all of downtown happen in a total vacuum. A great redesign could reinvigorate the whole area generationally. A budget beautification could turn it into a larger Main Street Pocket Park.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on January 21, 2024, 02:38:50 PM
Quotehttps://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2020/jan/17/the-plan-to-spur-downtown-dining-includes-incentives-for-restaurants/
Here is the list of Jacksonville restaurants that the DIA could target for expansion Downtown. The list was created by the jaxrestaurantreviews.com blog as examples of restaurants that would draw people Downtown. DIA officials said the list is preliminary and restaurants could be added.
• 4 Rivers Smokehouse
• Angie's Subs
• The Bearded Pig
• Catullo's
• Cinotti's Bakery and Sandwich Shop
• Domu
• Doro
• Fish Camps/Valley Smoke
• Fish House Group (Orange Park Fish House, Beach Road Fish & Chicken Dinners)
• The French Pantry
• Le Petit Paris
• Pie95 Pizza and Catering
• Safe Harbor Seafood
• Sliders Oyster Bar
• Picasso's
• Soul Food Bistro
• Terra Gaucha
Just want to highlight how ridiculous this is^. Boyer was elected CEO of the DIA on May 15, 2019. On May 24, 2019, the Times Union editorial board
BEGGED the city to not tear The Landing down without first evaluating adaptive reuse opportunities. https://www.jacksonville.com/story/opinion/editorials/2019/05/24/friday-editorial-dont-demolish-landing-before-examining-adaptive-reuse/5074357007/
Boyer then started her position in July 2019. This was right around the time that the last tenants at The Landing were closing up. The Landing demo did not start until October 2019. On January 14, 2020, Boyer rolled out the DIA's Targeted Food and Beverage Program. So presumably that plan was being worked on well before The Landing demo. With cover from the TU Editorial on May 24, 2019, Boyer could have stepped up and implored the City and Mayor Curry to pause The Landing demo and evaluate adaptive re-use. Instead, she rolled over and started working on a fruitless Targeted Food and Beverage Program.
The Landing RFP was not issued until January 2021, a full 15 months after demolition and a year in a half after Boyer started at the DIA. It's easy sometimes to play armchair QB and claim that things should have been done differently in the past....BUT many of us here on this board were clamoring for this at the time.
The clear, obvious, and correct move for the City was to issue an RFP in 2019 that pondered three design concepts: 1. Keeping The Landing as is 2. Adapting and modifying the existing structure 3. Tearing down and completely redeveloping the property (essentially the 2021 RFP).
While that RFP was in process, the DIA could have been working to try to attract the tenants on the above list to see what it would take to get them there. It's actually something I had been posting on here about for years and that is the creation of a Best of Jax type food hall downtown (The Landing or elsewhere). Think about it. What would have been the easiest way to attract Safe Harbor, Cinnotti's, Picasso's, etc downtown? The offer of an existing building that already has grease traps, kitchens, and simply just needs an interior buildout. Rather than wasting incentive money on trying to lure restaurants to sites not restaurant ready, the City could have used the same incentives to offer favorable leases to all those desirable tenants. The City could have even had a revenue share built into the lease (something I also posted about back then). Essentially you offer low rent and then get a portion of revenue once the tenant hits a high sales number. This is obviously very appealing for tenants, as they only pay if they are successful.
Had the DIA done the above, the City would have made a much more informed decision about the long term fate of The Landing. If it had commitments from 5 restaurants on the above list, would the City have still torn it down? If the results of the study came back and said that it would cost more (and take longer) to redesign a new park with shell buildings than it would to create the same amenities with an adapted/modified Landing, would the City have still torn it down?
I know Boyer was late to the show and cannot come close to taking all the blame, but I do think she could have greatly changed the outcome if she had shaken things up. I bet an outsider wouldn't have been so afraid to ruffle a few feathers. Additionally, Boyer can take sole responsibility for the DIA not coming up with an interim plan to fill The Landing space with a temporary use. It's been 3.25 years since I posted that the DIA should look to do something like this until park construction is done. These concepts are so low frills that they could be shifted around on site during construction and it would have given poor Kenny a place other than Jimmy Johns to eat.
https://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,37072.0.html
If the city could show a record of being able to complete a park on time, I think that would do wonders for downtown development. With a proven track record of opening parks on their projected completion date, the city could tie in outside development with their park projects. If everyone believed that riverfront plaza would be finished in October of 2026, it would present a perfect opportunity to "get in early" on one of the surrounding properties and develop it so that your tenants/residents could benefit from the improved infrastructure. Same with Hogan's creek, River's Edge, Metro Park, etc.... As it is, everyone expects these projects to languish for years beyond the initial estimated completion date. There's no urgency for american lion's (financial issues aside) to complete their project because it will just sit next to a barren field for years. Similar to TOD, parks could be a driver for surrounding development, but nobody has faith that the projects will come to fruition.
I don't think the DIA should be blamed for the Landing fiasco. Curry and Hughes were knocking that down hell or high water and the civic leaders in this town weren't standing in their way.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 23, 2024, 10:52:15 AM
I don't think the DIA should be blamed for the Landing fiasco. Curry and Hughes were knocking that down hell or high water and the civic leaders in this town weren't standing in their way.
The TU Editorial board stood up for it. Curry was on the ropes and getting a lot of flak about the demolition. In May 2019 (right around Boyer's hire), he pathetically posted on Twitter:
"Self proclaimed pundits on Duval opining on our plan for the Landing either have a strategic play or are lazy twitter tough guys. I think it is the latter given what I've seen last 4 years.Keep fighting the lazy fight & waging war on social media.I'mma keep winning for the people."Boyer had enough political capital and connections to get local political and design leaders to help make a stand and pump the brakes on demolition. All it would have taken was a follow up article in the TU with local leaders supporting the decision to delay demo and Curry would have had no choice but stand down.
That is the purpose of hiring a well connected local right, is it not? To be able to pull the right strings when needed? Either she didn't understand that tearing The Landing down with no plan was a bad decision, or she did and failed to use her political capital to fight Curry. Either way, she is somewhat negligent imo (though Curry obviously takes the most blame). The bigger issue though is everything that happened post demolition. Like not releasing the RFP until 2021, the LERP/scoring fiasco, and most importantly not having a plan to temporarily activate the park until completion.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 23, 2024, 10:52:15 AM
I don't think the DIA should be blamed for the Landing fiasco. Curry and Hughes were knocking that down hell or high water and the civic leaders in this town weren't standing in their way.
This is accurate. People forget, the mayor and CAO are in charge of public works projects, not DIA, and that Hughes had been interim head of DIA before Boyer was hired. I also doubt there was any amount of public pushback that would have made a difference once that die was cast.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 23, 2024, 10:52:15 AM
I don't think the DIA should be blamed for the Landing fiasco.
Quote from: Tacachale on January 25, 2024, 02:05:55 PMHughes had been interim head of DIA before Boyer was hired. I also doubt there was any amount of public pushback that would have made a difference once that die was cast.
To me, that die was cast way back in 2015, the second that Toney Sleiman flipped the script and offered his endorsement to Alvin Brown in the 2015 election.
Curry and Brian Hughes could never get over it, and vilified Sleiman as having offered his endorsement to Brown in exchange for the $12 million incentive package for the Landing.
And, to me, the Landing's fate was sealed when Curry took that secretive trip with Shad Khan, Mark Lamping, and Cordish to Baltimore, Kansas City, and St. Louis. After that, the race was on to make Sleiman's life miserable, screw with his permits, demolish the Landing, replace it with a non-competitive lawn, and build out Lot J as Landing 2.0 for the Jags.
Toss in the convenient fact that the $20 million payout to Toney Sleiman came right before the 2019 election season, and I don't think anything was stopping it.
The public couldn't have stopped it. The DIA couldn't have stopped it.
The only group that could have stopped it was City Council, we approved the buyout and demolition 15-1.
I take solace in the fact that the only sane person in the room that day is now our city's CFO (Anna Brosche).
Quote from: Ken_FSU on January 25, 2024, 02:54:22 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on January 23, 2024, 10:52:15 AM
I don't think the DIA should be blamed for the Landing fiasco.
Quote from: Tacachale on January 25, 2024, 02:05:55 PMHughes had been interim head of DIA before Boyer was hired. I also doubt there was any amount of public pushback that would have made a difference once that die was cast.
The only group that could have stopped it was City Council, we approved the buyout and demolition 15-1.
I take solace in the fact that the only sane person in the room that day is now our city's CFO (Anna Brosche).
The City Council voted 15-1 to pay $15 million to Sleiman, $1.5 million to buy leases out, and set aside $1.5 million for future demolition. The demolition didn't occur until 7 months after the Council vote and 5 months after Boyer's appointment. Sure, the wheels were well in motion before Boyer's appointment, but I have seen strong leaders in local government step in many times and change the direction of an existing project. The reality is that Boyer thought it was a good idea. Just remembered that she was one of the 15 that voted for demo and here is her quote on it:
"That isn't where we are today. And it's not going to regain that stature by us wishing that it would," Councilwoman Lori Boyer said. "So it's time to move on to take the next step and replace it with, you know, Jacksonville's future as opposed to wishful thinking about Jacksonville's past."
https://www.news4jax.com/news/2019/03/27/city-council-oks-deal-paving-way-for-demolition-of-jacksonville-landing/
Like I said earlier, Curry and Co were much more responsible, but I do think a strong leader and an outsider may have been able to change the ultimate outcome. Especially since Boyer couldn't backtrack on something she already voted for....No point in debating or discussing my opinion on it though.
The only things currently worth debating is what has happened post demolition and what the long term solutions are. As we saw with the Friendship Fountain debacle, I don't think it does any harm to holds someone's feet to the fire. In fact, it's often the only way to get anything done in Jax.
I basically washed my hands of the Landing site back when the "experts" in town kept ranting about future potential with multiple charrettes and dreams about this space being a magical unicorn that no other city could rival. I said it would set DT back a generation if we kicked out those businesses, waterfront restaurants and tore down a publicly financed urban retail complex. Unfortunately it did and the outcome was predictable because the process was the same nonsense that never worked with previous downtown revitalization gimmicks and the people making decisions had no real experience with any of the hot air that was being blown and promised back then.
Years have passed since then and those dreams remain fruitless, as predicted. At this point, just get the park built but be realistic about what it will be. It's not going to be transformational, take DT to the next level or bring more people to downtown than the Landing did on its worse days. Nevertheless, it shouldn't stay a vacant lot. Let's just get a space with some decent amenities up an running and move on to the next project.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 25, 2024, 06:17:48 PM
I basically washed my hands of the Landing site back when the "experts" in town kept ranting about future potential with multiple charrettes and dreams about this space being a magical unicorn that no other city could rival. I said, it would set DT back a generation if we kicked out those businesses waterfront restaurants and tore down a publicly financed urban retail complex and it did. Unfortunately, the outcome was predictable because the process was the same nonsense that never worked with previous downtown revitalization gimmicks and the people making decisions had no real experience with any of the hot air that was being blown and promised back then.
Years have passed since they and those dreams remain fruitless, as predicted. At this point, just get the park built but be realistic about what it will be. It's not going to be transformational, take DT to the next level or bring more people to downtown than the Landing did on its worse days. Nevertheless, it shouldn't stay a vacant lot. Let's just get a space with some decent amenities up an running and move on to the next project.
Really couldn't agree more when you look at it as a whole. I've basically just accepted reality & hoping to act on what we can at this point. I think the rumblings of Gateway were somewhat there but I didn't realize the scope of it all. Realistically, our best bet is to revitalize the area surrounding Gateway towards Springfield & hope growth extends from that corridor. Especially if Gateway & the Mixed-Use project off 8th St can secure grocers for retail.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 25, 2024, 06:17:48 PM
Let's just get a space with some decent amenities up an running and move on to the next project.
If the park is just decent, COJ will have failed spectacularly. It *has* to be a space that people seek out to spend time at, like other great parks/public spaces.
^That's not transformational. That's expected. In my mind, that equals decent and its totally okay.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 26, 2024, 11:09:52 PM
^That's not transformational. That's expected. In my mind, that equals decent and its totally okay.
I agree. Not everything has to be iconic, game-changing, or whatever in and of itself. What it should be is a good amenity that plugs into and supports the surrounding context. That's what truly makes a space great.
As a park, Memorial Park isn't anything special. What makes it special is how it fits into the surrounding neighborhood, meshing with nearby homes, apartments, shops and streets.
16 years ago I first logged into the old MetroJax... and sadly... 16 years later the exact same subjects and problems and obvious solutions are bandied about by earnest and knowledgeable people and here we are... with a downtown no one wants to bring our out of town family and friends to... virtually no nightlife... abandoned buildings and more empty lots....
Lakelander, Lunican, Olaklawa, Steve, and even SD, began these discussions and proposed solutions some of which have been implemented... the integration of the Bus, skyway, greyhound, at Prime Osborne was one. It seems most other proposed solutions were ignored... and here we are... 16 years later.
Sigh.........
Quote from: BridgeTroll on January 27, 2024, 11:23:50 AM
16 years ago I first logged into the old MetroJax... and sadly... 16 years later the exact same subjects and problems and obvious solutions are bandied about by earnest and knowledgeable people and here we are... with a downtown no one wants to bring our out of town family and friends to... virtually no nightlife... abandoned buildings and more empty lots....
Lakelander, Lunican, Olaklawa, Steve, and even SD, began these discussions and proposed solutions some of which have been implemented... the integration of the Bus, skyway, greyhound, at Prime Osborne was one. It seems most other proposed solutions were ignored... and here we are... 16 years later.
Sigh.........
Sad isn't it? I don't see how anyone can really think, overall, that she's doing even a good job let alone phenomenal.
Quote from: BridgeTroll on January 27, 2024, 11:23:50 AM
16 years ago I first logged into the old MetroJax... and sadly... 16 years later the exact same subjects and problems and obvious solutions are bandied about by earnest and knowledgeable people and here we are... with a downtown no one wants to bring our out of town family and friends to... virtually no nightlife... abandoned buildings and more empty lots....
Lakelander, Lunican, Olaklawa, Steve, and even SD, began these discussions and proposed solutions some of which have been implemented... the integration of the Bus, skyway, greyhound, at Prime Osborne was one. It seems most other proposed solutions were ignored... and here we are... 16 years later.
Sigh.........
Yes. Many of us have moved away in that time frame and returned several times only to continually be disappointed in the lack of progress (or in some cases, regression).
I left Jax permanently in 1995 (August) a year after retiring from the U.S. Navy. At that time Jax was on par or equal (in a lesser way) to all other major Florida cities. Since that time, all major Florida cities have left Jax in the dust. Not very much has changed since 1995. And one of the sad things is, there are cities that are not major Florida cities that have also left Jax in the dust, i.e., Lakeland, Sarasota, West Palm Beach, Fort Myers, Naples, etc. No, Lori is not to blame for all of it; but you would think since she took the helm that more/major progress would be made...and it hasn't happened and is still not happening or seems to be stagnant or "up in the air" relative to progress being made. Again, SHE is not totally to blame; but come on, poor decisions and choices have been made, and we as a City have not seized major opportunities in order to move Jax forward and once again at or on par with other major Florida cities. In February 2021, I was thinking of moving back to Jax, and yes, after all of those years; but decided to move somewhere in rural North Florida. As a litmus test I moved to Lake City for a year to reaclimate myself to North Florida, and then after that year I purchased some land with a home on it in rural suwannee county (suwannee valley area) and I love it. I visit Jax quite often for business and sometimes just to do a "look see" to see what is going on; and each time I visit, I am sorely disappointed. Overall, again, not too much has changed since 1995, yes there's been some progress but nothing astutely significant, however, I am rooting big time and pulling hard for Jax and am probably one of Jax's biggest cheerleaders despite the fumblings, ball dropping, etc.
Two DIA showcase projects dead on arrival:
QuoteDIA will have to rebid two major downtown projects
The long-anticipated plans for two major downtown projects on city-owned property are "not financially feasible" and will need to be rebid, the head of the Downtown Investment Authority told the Business Journal.
"As costs have gone up, we never got to a point where there were fixed terms that met the criteria in our plan," DIA CEO Lori Boyer said.
The dead projects are two of the most high-profile developments on the Northbank of the St. Johns River, filling in the blank canvas left by the demolition of the Jacksonville Landing and the former Duval County Courthouse....
https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2024/02/15/downtown-projects-need-to-be-rebid.html?utm_source=st&utm_medium=en&utm_campaign=ae&utm_content=JA&j=34365334&senddate=2024-02-15&empos=p4
These seemed to be a long time coming at this point. Easy solution: forget a tower on Riverfront Plaza and do a (smaller!) convention center at Ford on Bay like we should have in the first place.
May have to adjust that $8B pipeline.
I thought these were considered dead a long time ago.
Most of us have known that, but they had to wait for the coroner to weigh in
Quote
Munchkin Coroner: (singing) As Coroner I must aver, I thoroughly examine (the deals), and (they're) not only merely dead, (they're) really most sincerely dead.
Quote from: jcjohnpaint on February 15, 2024, 05:41:49 PM
I thought these were considered dead a long time ago.
The American Lions tower was a fantasy from Day 1. Wasted a lot of time on that mirage. Le sigh.
Hopefully a more realistic, coherent, and complimentary project to the park will eventually go on that parcel.
Nothing surprising here.
Status update from the DIA on some key projects, per the Daily Record:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2024/feb/16/rising-costs-sinking-projects-in-downtown-jacksonville/
Hardwick - Dead; will need to be rebid
Riverfront Plaza Private Development Pad - Dead; will need to be rebid
Independent Life Building - Dead; will need to be sold and/or reincentivized
Ambassador Hotel - Dead; will need to be sold and/or reincentivized
Central National Bank - Dead; will need to sold and/or reincentivized
Related Tower on Southbank - $30 million funding gap; talks continue (have heard elsewhere, from multiple folks, that this one is dead too)
Laura Street Trio - DIA and City presenting three options to Southeast in order to help move the project forward (it sounds like they are, rightfully, pushing back on all the new construction elements and just trying to force a historic rehab of the existing structures)
Per the article, Groundhog Day continues, "...the DIA is likely headed back to square one on the properties. Bolstered by recent visits from what Boyer described as "national developers" interested in Downtown Jacksonville, she said the DIA is "getting very close to the time that we're going to be having negotiations with folks on what they can do now in today's market and be putting those dispositions back out."
This will be the fourth RFP for Ford on Bay.
Have said my peace, we've got new leadership in charge at City Hall, but just sad to see the continued lack of accountability or recognition that we're essentially starting back over from zero on half of the riverfront after squandering the great migration into Jacksonville and the historic economic boom coming out of the pandemic. Other cities have dealt with the same supply chain issues, rising construction costs, inflationary pressure, and capital markets that we continue to use as excuses, and they've got cranes in the air. We still struggle to acknowledge that we're not seeing the progress that we should have.
Couldn't help but notice the contrast between the DIA's deafening silence on Friendship Fountain for years as it was closed versus their proud signage all over the park last night when it finally reopened.
But again, spilled milk. New day. Let's just pray that we have a fresh set of eyes scope, issue, and grade this next round of RFPs, lest we continue down this same fruitless cycle.
lol the title of this thread is becoming a good meme.
As downtown projects come to Jax to die, new ones bloom in NYC. Check out this proposed riverfront project adjacent to the United Nations, contingent on obtaining a casino license:
QuoteTwo skyscrapers joined by daring cantilevered 'skybridge' to soar over New York
A pair of skyscrapers connected by a cantilevered "skybridge" and a rooftop infinity pool is set to join the New York City skyline, as developers unveiled a proposal for a new megaproject just south of the United Nations headquarters on Monday.
Designed by architecture firm Bjarke Ingels Group (BIG), the 615-foot-tall towers will contain two hotels, while a soaring lobby across the top will house restaurants, bars, an art gallery a glass-floored (and glass-ceilinged) viewing platform and — should a license be granted — a subterranean casino.
Along with two new residential towers, the skyscrapers will flank the newly unveiled Freedom Plaza development, a three-block-long public park with retail spaces and a new "Museum of Freedom and Democracy."....
....Bjarke Ingels, the Danish founder and creative director of BIG, said his firm's design looks to extend the greenery that architects Le Corbusier, Wallace Harrison and Oscar Niemeyer created at the neighboring UN building.
"We continue to build on these architectural principles by uniting three city blocks to form a public green space reaching from 1st Avenue to the East River overlook, creating a green connection all the way to the water's edge," said Ingels in a press statement.....
....The Möbius strip-shaped building, overlooking the river, winds on top of itself creating outdoor walking paths. BIG described the design as an homage to the amphitheaters built by the Ancient Greeks, the creators of modern democracy....
https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/15/style/freedom-plaza-skyscrapers-skybridge-new-york/index.html
(https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/freedomplaza-skyline-zoomin-negativ.jpg?c=16x9)
(https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/freedomplaza-roof-top-bucharest.jpg?c=original)
(https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/04-retail-plaza-image-by-bucharest.jpg?c=original)
(https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/freedomplaza-aerialwuncropped-negativ.jpg?c=original)
(https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/freedomplaza-parklowwithgirls-bucharest.jpg?c=original)
The discussion of the dead projects was, shall we say, unfortunately timed, but there's nothing new or unexpected there. The projects have been dead for a while, and in the current state of things, such big private projects will be tougher to get off the ground in the near future. In the meanwhile we can and are focusing on things that can get moving forward in the short and mid term. That includes investment in our public spaces, infrastructure work, the coming stadium deals projects of various sizes. I'm pretty optimistic about seeing measurable positive change.
Quote from: Tacachale on February 17, 2024, 10:44:13 AMIn the meanwhile we can and are focusing on things that can get moving forward in the short and mid term. That includes investment in our public spaces, infrastructure work, the coming stadium deals projects of various sizes. I'm pretty optimistic about seeing measurable positive change.
Feels like the way to go, especially in this capital market. Create truly great public spaces, and developers will pay to be near them, rather than demand millions in incentives. It's similar to what I was getting at with the James Weldon Johnson article a week or two back. How much more desirable would Mags, Snyder, the Main Library retail bays, Ron's apartments, Jacobs, the Trio, etc. be if we invested heavily in JWJP? Would pay for itself on the back end.
The plans for Shipyards West are out there, but I'm also super curious to see if the City can find a way to turn the flex field at Daily's Place into a unique public asset now that it's back in the hands of the parks department.
Tho
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on February 16, 2024, 10:55:07 PM
As downtown projects come to Jax to die, new ones bloom in NYC. Check out this proposed riverfront project adjacent to the United Nations, contingent on obtaining a casino license:
QuoteTwo skyscrapers joined by daring cantilevered 'skybridge' to soar over New York
A pair of skyscrapers connected by a cantilevered "skybridge" and a rooftop infinity pool is set to join the New York City skyline, as developers unveiled a proposal for a new megaproject just south of the United Nations headquarters on Monday.
Designed by architecture firm Bjarke Ingels Group (BIG), the 615-foot-tall towers will contain two hotels, while a soaring lobby across the top will house restaurants, bars, an art gallery a glass-floored (and glass-ceilinged) viewing platform and — should a license be granted — a subterranean casino.
Along with two new residential towers, the skyscrapers will flank the newly unveiled Freedom Plaza development, a three-block-long public park with retail spaces and a new "Museum of Freedom and Democracy."....
....Bjarke Ingels, the Danish founder and creative director of BIG, said his firm's design looks to extend the greenery that architects Le Corbusier, Wallace Harrison and Oscar Niemeyer created at the neighboring UN building.
"We continue to build on these architectural principles by uniting three city blocks to form a public green space reaching from 1st Avenue to the East River overlook, creating a green connection all the way to the water's edge," said Ingels in a press statement.....
....The Möbius strip-shaped building, overlooking the river, winds on top of itself creating outdoor walking paths. BIG described the design as an homage to the amphitheaters built by the Ancient Greeks, the creators of modern democracy....
https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/15/style/freedom-plaza-skyscrapers-skybridge-new-york/index.html
(https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/freedomplaza-skyline-zoomin-negativ.jpg?c=16x9)
(https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/freedomplaza-roof-top-bucharest.jpg?c=original)
(https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/04-retail-plaza-image-by-bucharest.jpg?c=original)
(https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/freedomplaza-aerialwuncropped-negativ.jpg?c=original)
(https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/freedomplaza-parklowwithgirls-bucharest.jpg?c=original)
Two, or even one of those buildings would look super on our waterfront; and the irony of it all is, over the past 20 years or so, we had the chance to have many of those skyscrapers and buildings in our urban core/downtown; and just think, if all of those proposals had come to fruition, Jax would look like Seattle and would have the 2nd best skyline in the state of Florida. Oh well.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on February 17, 2024, 11:41:27 AM
The plans for Shipyards West are out there, but I'm also super curious to see if the City can find a way to turn the flex field at Daily's Place into a unique public asset now that it's back in the hands of the parks department.
The Jaguars Foundation just wrapped up a 3 day youth flag football tournament and mini-camp at the stadium and flex field. There have been a few flag football tournaments in the facility since it was turned back over to the city. There is a kickball tournament coming up later in the spring and there have been a number of prayer events that have brought in thousands of people.
https://dtjax.com/events/jacksonville-free-yoga-downtown/2024-02-20/
Another event at the Flex Field. Free Yoga every Tuesday in February. Glad to see that this space is getting used by the public. Would be curious to see the fee structure for rentals.
Circling back to some of the recently announced dead projects. I have to imagine there is some interest from the Gateway Group in developing the Ambassador Hotel and the Independent Life Building, as those are two seriously blighted large buildings right on the edge of their planned Pearl Street District.
Quote from: Joey Mackey on February 20, 2024, 09:36:05 AM
Circling back to some of the recently announced dead projects. I have to imagine there is some interest from the Gateway Group in developing the Ambassador Hotel and the Independent Life Building, as those are two seriously blighted large buildings right on the edge of their planned Pearl Street District.
I would have to imagine there's no firm evidence that they are interested, but it sure would be nice if they are. I would also imagine that if they are interested, they might intensely renovate those buildings to fit their scheme relative to the Pearl Street District.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on February 20, 2024, 09:22:33 AM
https://dtjax.com/events/jacksonville-free-yoga-downtown/2024-02-20/
Another event at the Flex Field. Free Yoga every Tuesday in February. Glad to see that this space is getting used by the public. Would be curious to see the fee structure for rentals.
Good stuff, I love it, thanks for passing along!
Would be cool to see the sliding doors opened up for events when the weather gets nicer.
Quote from: Joey Mackey on February 16, 2024, 03:38:19 PM
lol the title of this thread is becoming a good meme.
Indeed
News For Jax more prescient than Jaxson....
Don't know the details, but Superfood owners are looking to sell their space.
The issue with Super Food, similar to Burrito Gallery, has to do with the new owners rather than the state of Downtown. It seems they bit off more than they could chew.
Super Food currently leases their space and I can say with 99% confidence they have not made any indication to the landlord that they intend to close or sell the restaurant so I would be surprised
Nate Monroe's column today (https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/columns/nate-monroe/2024/04/10/downtown-jacksonville-needs-new-leadership-after-years-of-failed-projects/73273822007/) is calling for Lori Boyer's ouster.
Nate gets it right, again.
I think Nate says what most are thinking. Boyer is like the coach that is well liked and popular with the players but just doesn't have teams that can build a winning record over time. Such coaches are forced out all the time as forward progress is the job standard.
Boyer has overseen record low financing rates, a booming economy and unparalleled growth in the City at large and yet Downtown (specifically, the North Core) has little to show for it other than a long string of broken promises, deal fall-throughs and unbuilt renderings.
I would suggest DIA's biggest mistake is not focusing more on the details of infrastructure (green spaces/parks, streetscapes, urban mass transit, river access and uses, lighting, security, land use/zoning, etc.) and culture (architectural design standards, historic preservation, history, events, museums, theaters, tourist attractions and promotions, etc.) that motivate people to want to invest, personally or otherwise, in Downtown.
Jacksonville always is chasing the big whale... an NFL team, bigger and better stadium, floating nuclear power plants, an auto plant, a tower downtown, the Four Seasons, an aircraft carrier, the Skyway/U2C, etc.... while overlooking all the smaller projects that both serve as the catalyst for the bigger ones and also create a more sustainable base for the long term. There are dozens or more small towns in the U.S. that are tourist meccas and desirable places to locate without any of the big projects Jacksonville throws money at.
Quality of life counts and should be #1 always. That is what people want and what they will put their money on.
Steve Atkins is not pulling his punches ;D
"To imagine that the city could do a more effective job of development of this site by focusing solely on rehabbing the historic buildings or by isolating one of the uses, without more (uses), is interesting, considering the amount of time, effort and resources the city deployed in mustering water features at the water fountain on the Southbank, a magnificent development indeed considering everything else that's gone vertical in the area over the years besides squirts of water," Atkins wrote in an April 3 email to DIA CEO Lori Boyer."
Full article here - https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2024/04/10/jacksonville-seeks-new-approach-on-historic-laura-street-trio/73251746007/
^ Reading this article, I can see both sides of this coin. The underlying question is what are the economics of the project. This obviously dictates investment and financing. If Atkins can only get financing with a City guarantee, that isn't exactly a vote of confidence in the economic viability of his vision. It is hard to believe that if the City is contributing tens of millions otherwise to the project that he can't make this work economically. Has Adkins been totally transparent on project costs (same issue as Lot J had)? Maybe he is just being too greedy?
On the other hand, I would think if he could find better financing terms by now he would have done so. Rising interest rates are not helping. Banks have become far more cautious with lending lately and he may be lucky to even have one offer. He is likely looking at what the City is doing for Khan on the Four Seasons and stadium and thinking his project is to Downtown of greater impact and he is only putting the City at risk for a fraction of the largess thrown at Khan, a multi billionaire that really doesn't need money from anyone else. Could the City sell tax free bonds to finance the project? That might reduce the financing costs quite a bit. Will the City be doing that for Khan? If so, why not here? If the City did guarantee the Capital One loan and had to follow through, I would imagine the City would be entitled to take ownership of the project. What value could the City get by flipping it at that point, especially if it triggered a resurgent Downtown? Could the State or Feds contribute a substantial historic preservation grant to the project?
Some entrenched parties and tough calls. Sadly, we all lose if these treasured buildings are not preserved soon.
Quote from: Joey Mackey on April 10, 2024, 05:34:02 PM
Steve Atkins is not pulling his punches ;D
"To imagine that the city could do a more effective job of development of this site by focusing solely on rehabbing the historic buildings or by isolating one of the uses, without more (uses), is interesting, considering the amount of time, effort and resources the city deployed in mustering water features at the water fountain on the Southbank, a magnificent development indeed considering everything else that's gone vertical in the area over the years besides squirts of water," Atkins wrote in an April 3 email to DIA CEO Lori Boyer."
Full article here - https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2024/04/10/jacksonville-seeks-new-approach-on-historic-laura-street-trio/73251746007/
Quote
Mayor Donna Deegan said DIA presented "three very good options" to Atkins and the clock is ticking on getting the Trio restored.
"The reason we wanted to be very intentional about presenting those options to Mr. Atkins was to say look, this is our best final effort to get this in a place where we can get it done," Deegan said. "And from here, if we cannot get it done (with Atkins), we're going to move quickly to whatever our next options are because time is really crucial when it comes to these buildings."
The part of the story I'd like to hear more about is this
Quote
Atkins said in his letter to Boyer that his legal team disagrees with the interpretation by the Office of General Counsel and is "candidly perplexed" there hasn't been an opportunity to meet directly with the city attorneys and their outside bond counsel to go through the details of the financing plan.
"While you are reading a shorthand account from a term sheet with regard to an 'unconditional guarantee,' there are numerous ways to structure the city-developer-lender arrangement to avoid what you deem 'fatal' flaws," Atkins wrote.
Did Atkins request a meeting with the City's lawyers? If so, who denied that opportunity, and why?
Will just say that suspect DIA leadership does not make Atkins less of a clown.
To me, it boils down to this:
In the original (read: third) proposal that the DIA "bunted on," Southeast asked the city for a "$22 million loan guarantee," which essentially put $22 million in initial public money into a reserve that Capital One could draw from if Southeast failed to make their payments, while also leaving the city ultimately liable for everything (up to $250 million by some estimates). It was wildly irresponsible, risky to our municipal credit rating, and ultimately, unconstitutional. You just can't use public money to guarantee loans for private developers.
To get to the same place, with a similar $22 million incentive while also protecting our public interests, the DIA came back with three options, all of which focused our public dollars on restoration of the historic buildings versus writing blank checks for the new construction aspects (something I've long pushed for as a rational alternative):
1) The city buys the Trio at market value, and spends $56 million to privately restore the buildings. Upon completion, Atkins would be given the first right of refusal to buy them back.
2) The city would float Southeast $56 million in historic grants, paid out in stages at key project milestones. Once complete, Atkins would pay back half ($28 million) of the grants.
3) The city would acquire the land and buildings and lease them back to Southeast, or buy and lease the land to them while letting Southeast retain ownership of the building. The city would then provide Atkins and Southeast a $26 million-plus historic preservation grant upfront.
Are these solutions perfect? I don't know. Are at least one or two of them solid enough options to talk through in order to finally get some dirt turning? I think they are.
From my understanding, instead of playing ball when the city came to him with $26-$28 million in hand, Atkins immediately shot down #1 and #3, and instead came back with a barely modified version of the original package that included the city guaranteeing his private loans.
Guy just doesn't seem willing to budge, the General Counsel was clear in their belief that the proposal was too risky and unconstitutional, and I don't blame anyone for not wanting to piss away their limited time listening to Southeast's lawyers argue why they think it is constitutional for the taxpayers to back their private loan.
Just like the definition of insanity is letting the current DIA leadership continue to spin their wheels while expecting progress downtown, the definition of insanity is also letting Southeast continue to waste everyone's time on this project. The group clearly doesn't have the financing in place to complete the project. They offloaded the garage to VyStar, tried some shady workarounds with the housing authority, and now are trying to find creative ways to pass liability for their project off on the city. There's just never been enough real skin in the game to take what's been proposed, and re-proposed, and re-proposed, and now re-proposed seriously. These are key buildings on a key block, but no one is entitled to write their own demands.
We desperately need to get this project done, but unfortunately, it clearly isn't going to be with this group.
Can't say I blame the city for this one, and I'm glad the mayor and Jimmy Peluso are clearly willing to support escalation if necessary. Guy's had a 11 years to clean up his property, and his inability to develop a blighted block is handicapping all of the other surrounding investments we're making on the periphery. I'm sick of looking at it every day. Get him out. He's had his chance, he's run out of other people to blame for inaction, and at this point, he's just holding the Trio hostage. It ain't fair to the city and to all of the other businesses trying to play ball in the CBD.
DIA / Lori a Phenomenal Job in the face of Implosion.
School Bus / Hogan Creek " news" today simply a brief footnote. Personally, I will never ever again kayak downtown interior waterways or even enter Downtown Blueways.... As a matter of experiences, discernment. Shucks, Cassatt Avenue / Lowe's and 103 Street corridor have @ Changed".
I have an In-law related family person that was employed by DIA. Endless Loop Goop. Far reaching political/influence tentacles...what once appeared as Clearly Supported Directive ends up as simply a pile of Loop Goo(P) on the Platter Of Consequences.
My Mother in Law's family on my Wife's side had a Bakery at Five Points. She married a man that would become the City Of Jacksonville Chief General Counsel.....upon Consolidation.
Fascinating insights,stories, interviews. And certain stuff simply and easily (mostly) Sworn To Secrecey/Non News.
Looks like someone is happy with Boyer's results... 8). Two more years max, apparently.
QuoteDIA could extend Boyer's contract
The Downtown Investment Authority may seek to extend its CEO's contract for another two years.
Lori Boyer took the helm of the DIA in 2019 with a five-year contract, which is set to expire in June.
On Wednesday, board Chair Jim Citrano signaled his desire to extend Boyer's contract for another two years. The board is expected to vote on a resolution regarding the CEO's contract at its next meeting, on May 15....
....But there's been an indication both from the mayor's office and the DIA board that they want her to stay, and she is willing to sign on for another two years, but that's the maximum.
When the board wants to start looking for her replacement, she will help transition and train that individual, whether it be someone on staff or from an outside search, she said...
https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2024/04/18/dia-ceo-contract.html?utm_source=st&utm_medium=en&utm_campaign=me&utm_content=JA&ana=e_JA_me&j=35076812&senddate=2024-04-18&empos=p4
Contract extension vote set for next week.
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2024/05/09/jacksonville-downtown-investment-authority-keeping-lori-boyer-as-ceo/73614764007/
Extension was approved, one year with an additional year option.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2024/may/15/downtown-investment-authority-board-extends-ceo-lori-boyers-contract/
Where has a Family Dollar been built in the Downtown CRA this century? I know of one on State Street that's open but its located outside of the DIA's boundaries.
My mistake. I misread the JDR article. The now closed Family Dollar mentioned by Boyer was done well before her time at the DIA. She mentioned it as an example of how things have improved downtown since she began as CEO in 2019. I still don't think progress downtown warrants giving her a 2-year extension and definitely don't think she needs to be "training" her successor.
Even small, poor downtown Lake City has a Family Dollar; also even a Dollar General. Small towns can have these but not downtown Jax? Lori needs to find another job. They want people to live (and of course work) in downtown Jax but don't want to bring in grocery stores, retailers, gas stations/convenience stores, etc.? It just doesn't equate; and, I think the planning is to bring even more people downtown. So I think that justifies luring in Family Dollars and other businesses to support the people living and working downtown.
Quote from: heights unknown on May 21, 2024, 04:58:26 AM
Even small, poor downtown Lake City has a Family Dollar; also even a Dollar General. Small towns can have these but not downtown Jax? Lori needs to find another job. They want people to live (and of course work) in downtown Jax but don't want to bring in grocery stores, retailers, gas stations/convenience stores, etc.? It just doesn't equate; and, I think the planning is to bring even more people downtown. So I think that justifies luring in Family Dollars and other businesses to support the people living and working downtown.
There is literally a Family Dollar on State Street one block from the Downtown CRA boundaries. There are also multiple grocery stores, gas stations and convenience stores *within* the boundaries, and more are in the works. No need to lure them, give them site plan exemptions or any of the things we used to do just to say we have such-and-such business in our Downtown.
Not one on State Street much longer
From the Daily Record
Quote
The Downtown Family Dollar at 233 E. State St. and the East Arlington store at 1556 Monument Road are among the latest to post closure signs.
The Downtown store is closing at 7 p.m. May 25, a store clerk said. He said the closure was because of slow sales and that workers would be moved to other stores. Most of the merchandise in the store was gone May 20. Items were up to 75% off.
Quote from: Charles Hunter on May 21, 2024, 11:26:47 PM
Not one on State Street much longer
From the Daily Record
Quote
The Downtown Family Dollar at 233 E. State St. and the East Arlington store at 1556 Monument Road are among the latest to post closure signs.
The Downtown store is closing at 7 p.m. May 25, a store clerk said. He said the closure was because of slow sales and that workers would be moved to other stores. Most of the merchandise in the store was gone May 20. Items were up to 75% off.
Oh well, I guess we really are in trouble ;D
There's another Family Dollar a mile away at Kings and Myrtle. And another in Springfield, just south of MLK Parkway. Those dollars stores have likely outstretched the market.