"Symbols matter." - Donna Deegan
That's my mayor!
https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2023/12/27/work-begins-overnight-to-remove-confederate-monument-from-springfield-park/
Yes!!!
Nice work!
Hell yeah! Really nice of 904WARD to lead the fundraising for making this possible.
Really pitiful seeing people like Nick Howland and Dean Black decide now is the time to whine about how they didn't get to continue refusing to make a decision.
There was a fictional detective book I read a while that imagined a world where the Civil War was never fought and the Confederacy was allowed to exist independently from the regular United States keeping their practice of slavery. It showed a Confederacy that was not only struggling economically and suffering from lots of migration by blacks and whites alike, but also a country shunned by the international community and missing out on the technological advances and educational opportunities people from the South take for granted.
I always think of those scenarios and just shake my head whenever anyone feel the needs to defend these monuments or prominently wear the image of the Stars and Bars (which by the way was NOT the flag of the Confederacy but the flag they flew when they went out to battles most of which they lost badly).
If not for the Civil War, that group would have been eventually slaughtered in a Haitian style rebellion by the enslaved oppressed.
Nick Howland is big mad
He'll get over it. This city has much bigger fish to fry. Kudos to the mayor getting this done before the nonsense in Tallahassee is passed.
Quote...State Rep. Dean Black, R-Jacksonville, filed legislation for the 2022 legislative session and again for the 2023 session to block cities from moving Confederate and other historical memorials in the state. Gov. Ron DeSantis would have the authority to remove and fine any elected official involved in taking down such memorials....
....Black, who is chairman of the Republican Party of Duval County, on Wednesday blasted the removal of the monument's statues, calling it a "stunning abuse of power" by Deegan. He said doing it without consulting city leaders or having a vote by City Council "is another in a long line of woke Democrats' obsession with cancel culture and tearing down history. "....
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2023/12/27/mayor-donna-deegan-orders-jacksonville-confederate-monument-taken-down/72035290007/
So Dean Black wants to turn over local governance decisions to the governor but turns around and complains that Deegan, as our local mayor, bypassed the local City Council. And he adds that it is a "stunning abuse of power." Maybe he should apply the same standard to the governor and the legislature. What a hypocrite!
I would imagine if there was a statue that slighted Trump, Jesus, or some other icon of Black or Howland, they would want it removed yesterday. The lack of understanding that a statue on public property that has its roots in celebrating those who oppressed others is offensive is just unfathomable.
With all the problems in the world today, the GOP right's hype of this issue is also out of order. I was no fan of Curry but hats off to him for also pushing this removal along. I bet a lot of GOP'ers on the City Council, right winger and champion naysayer Nick Howland aside, are secretly thrilled Deegan got this done so they don't have to go on record one way or the other. Time to move forward.
When Duval is finally, officially well in to predominantly black population status and function, of all the things black people don't like at that juncture, likely none will complain that there are not enough white folk around.
( By then, even folks like Dean Black moved out, or even worse for him, hunkered down. Fort Life. )
Fair Play
Dean Black is all by himself all the reason you need to justify taking partisan politics out of local elections. Jacksonville has the unique ability to do just that too (charter amendment). If only someone would take up that cause.
Dean Black is off his rocker. Aside from his desire to preserve Confederate monuments to slavery advocates, he wants to retroactively force taxpayers to restore monuments and remove from office elected officials (so much for respecting the voters) going back up to 7 years (if passed in 2024) that acted legally at the time. He also is giving the middle finger to public input/opinion/elections that might endorse these actions. No way this holds up in the courts and will just waste more taxpayer dollars on lawyers if passed.
Another example of the dictatorial actions by the GOP legislature and governor who want to override all local governance that they don't approve of.
Quote....Black, who serves in the state House in addition to being chairman of the Republican Party of Duval County, and state Sen. Jonathan Martin, R-Fort Myers, filed related bills that would force local governments that remove historic monuments to cover the full cost for putting them back in their original condition.
Black's bill would enforce that requirement for any historic monuments removed since Jan. 1, 2017 while Martin would make it retroactive to Oct. 1, 2020.
Black wants the governor to be able to boot from office any local elected official involved in that removal, going back to January 2017. Martin would not give the governor the ability to retroactively punish an elected official, but it would allow that ejection from office after July 1, 2024.
Martin and Black use the same justification in their bills that the state must protect and preserve history from local officials who might be swayed by "undue influence by groups who may feel offended or hurt by certain actions" in the history of Florida and the nation....
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2023/12/29/jacksonville-decision-on-confederate-monument-praised-and-attacked/72046974007/
Quote from: Florida Power And Light on December 27, 2023, 10:03:26 PM
When Duval is finally, officially well in to predominantly black population status and function, of all the things black people don't like at that juncture, likely none will complain that there are not enough white folk around.
( By then, even folks like Dean Black moved out, or even worse for him, hunkered down. Fort Life. )
Fair Play
Racist much?
Lol, sounds like sour grapes from FP&L. Duval had a higher Black population percentage when that confederate monument was installed. But we don't really teach true local history in public schools. Never have.
Mourning is a valid human emotion. Just let em vent and cry. Time to move on. Jax has bigger issues to deal with.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 03, 2024, 10:59:38 AM
Lol, sounds like sour grapes from FP&L. Duval had a higher Black population percentage when that confederate monument was installed. But we don't really teach true local history in public schools. Never have.
Mourning is a valid human emotion. Just let em vent and cry. Time to move on. Jax has bigger issues to deal with.
Agreed. Just waiting for the day that there's something we can even remotely consider water-front entertainment in The River City. Lenny's Lawn, zombie movie-set-like parcels and McMansions just aren't cutting it.
Can we talk about how the cost of removal went from $1.2 million to only $187,000? Obviously, the cost was trumped up to create a barrier to removal, but it makes you wonder how costs of other public projects are being manipulated.
JEA septic phase out program is a Grade A example Buckeye. Been talking about it for more than a year now & nobody seems to care. Just how it is sadly.
Quote from: Fallen Buckeye on January 04, 2024, 05:52:27 PM
Can we talk about how the cost of removal went from $1.2 million to only $187,000? Obviously, the cost was trumped up to create a barrier to removal, but it makes you wonder how costs of other public projects are being manipulated.
You may be correct in your conclusion but, to be clear, the larger quote included dismantling the stone domed and columned pavilion and base surrounding the statue in a manner that would allow it to be reassembled elsewhere. This removal only entailed taking out the cast bronze statue and leaving the surrounding structure intact.
I'm having a hard time understanding what's racist about a statue of a woman surrounded by her children waiting on her husband to come home from war. Are we going to pretend that war never happened is that what we're doing? Excuse me for not getting this quote not exactly right but someone once said if we don't remember our mistakes we're bound to repeat them. I am a open minded person and looking forward to responses to help me understand.
Quote from: scbennett67@gmail.com on January 09, 2024, 08:30:30 AM
I'm having a hard time understanding what's racist about a statue of a woman surrounded by her children waiting on her husband to come home from war. Are we going to pretend that war never happened is that what we're doing? Excuse me for not getting this quote not exactly right but someone once said if we don't remember our mistakes we're bound to repeat them. I am a open minded person and looking forward to responses to help me understand.
For this particular statue, it's important to know that it wasn't actually erected during the Civil War period. It was erected over 50 years after the war ended for the purpose of intimidating black citizens during the Jim Crow era.
https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2023/12/27/historian-springfield-park-confederate-monument-was-put-up-to-intimidate-black-residents-during-jim-crow-era/
As the mayor rightfully put it, "symbols matter," and despite all the doublespeak from local politicians, allowing these symbols to remain standing is an implicit endorsement of the Confederacy.
Yes, history is important, but Jacksonville belongs to all of us, and there's no universe where we need any public statues openly celebrating the enslavement, oppression, or intimidation of any ethnic group, regardless of historical context.
We absolutely should remember our past lest we repeat. But we can remember through Civil Rights or local historical museums without celebrating them in front of City Hall or in public parks.
To me, the best thing to do is to try to put yourselves into the shoes of someone else. How would you feel if you were a black family going to that particular park and walking beside that statue, openly celebrating an institution centered on the right to enslave African Americans? Would probably put a damper on your pickle ball game, right?
Removing the statue should have been the easiest decision of Deegan's early mayoral run.
Thankfully she made it.
The mayor is on First Coast Connect today, explaining her position.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on January 04, 2024, 06:33:39 PM
You may be correct in your conclusion but, to be clear, the larger quote included dismantling the stone domed and columned pavilion and base surrounding the statue in a manner that would allow it to be reassembled elsewhere. This removal only entailed taking out the cast bronze statue and leaving the surrounding structure intact.
Thanks for clarifying that point. It does make it less egregious.
Quote from: scbennett67@gmail.com on January 09, 2024, 08:30:30 AM
I'm having a hard time understanding what's racist about a statue of a woman surrounded by her children waiting on her husband to come home from war. Are we going to pretend that war never happened is that what we're doing? Excuse me for not getting this quote not exactly right but someone once said if we don't remember our mistakes we're bound to repeat them. I am a open minded person and looking forward to responses to help me understand.
I generally believe that we should avoid judging people in history based on today's standards, but in this case I don't have a problem with removing the statues. They were put up to intimidate a class of people in the midst of the civil rights movement. Removing that just rights a wrong imo.
I do believe that we need to preserve and teach history fairly, but that can be accomplished better using other means anyways. For instance, sites like Camp Milton give an actual perspective of history as it happened with lots of informational markers and explaining what took place. Ditto for Olustee. Teaching our children to read critically from several perspectives would be far more impactful than a statue. If anyone is concerned about preserving history, a quality education should be the priority. This is just a distraction from that end.
I wonder if the City of Jax pursued this opp at all?
https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2024/01/14/st-johns-county-asks-residents-to-encourage-state-leaders-to-choose-st-augustine-for-florida-black-history-museum/
I'm fine if they did not. I'm pretty skeptical about this one.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 14, 2024, 09:18:30 PM
I'm fine if they did not. I'm pretty skeptical about this one.
Yeah, didn't realize this was the loony whitewashed museum coming out of HB 1441 that was discussed a couple of weeks back.
Good Lord at this description:
QuoteHarold Knowles, the CDC's CEO, said the nonprofit envisions a museum where a unique blend of African American and old South Confederacy history is presented "in an atmosphere of objective academic rigor, free of historic emotional overlays."
The proposal includes space for Confederate statues and memorials that have been removed from public display in recent years.
^ Sounds like more of a memorial to the Confederacy disguised as a Black History Museum. This goes along with the GOP position touting the "benefits of slavery" and that the Civil War was not really about slavery at all. You can bet that will be a big part of this "atmosphere of objective academic rigor, free of historic emotional overlays."
This approach is about as ludicrous as those who deny the Holocaust was real. It is truly offensive.
Nassau County is also on the short list for the museum. If selected, it would be at Wildlight.....
I can't imagine people going all the way to Wildlight for a museum. That'd be goofy.
Quote from: marcuscnelson on January 15, 2024, 10:30:52 AM
I can't imagine people going all the way to Wildlight for a museum. That'd be goofy.
It's closer than St. Augustine (from downtown, your mileage may vary. UNF seems to be the midpoint).
I think the idea is to catch tourists driving down I-95.
But, I agree with others here, that this will be a DeSatinized white-washed version of Black History. If that version must exist, let it be near all the other fantasy tourist
traps attractions in central Florida. (Except that will give the tourists a warped picture.)
No, the city did not pursue this particular project.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 15, 2024, 08:59:05 AM
Nassau County is also on the short list for the museum. If selected, it would be at Wildlight.....
Now that says all you need to know about the seriousness of this project. WTF?! Did American Beach lose out for not having enough African-American historic or symbolic relevance?!
I doubt American Beach would want a Black History Museum. Most there consider it to be a residential neighborhood. They'd oppose something that would result in more tourist making noise and speeding past their homes.