This looks to be one ugly building. On par with prison designs. Great views of the parking garage. I am still not sure who wants to pay up for living in this spot but adding the ugliness of this complex isn't going to help. Maybe this cheap design will yield cheap rents to get tenants.
This is going to be a real blight on Khan's hopes for the area. A $2 billion stadium and a Four Season's hotel living side by side with this garbage?
Just another gross example of this City's lack of aesthetic standards and willingness to let any project move forward just for the sake of appeasing developers. In the long run, they just infect a whole area with low class outcomes and future development will be reduced in the name of today's development.
https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/rise-doro-construction-photos/
(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Rise-Doro---November-2023/i-8WrnbWB/0/637cf70c/L/20231122_161329-L.jpg)
(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Rise-Doro---November-2023/i-H7xHF2r/0/449ebc4a/L/20231122_161425-L.jpg)
(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Rise-Doro---November-2023/i-sPH4kHm/0/7c5418bf/L/20231122_164039-L.jpg)
(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Rise-Doro---November-2023/i-CSVnLLn/0/a4a445ec/L/20231122_161953-L.jpg)
LOLOL......."GARBAGE."
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on December 02, 2023, 12:38:19 AM
This looks to be one ugly building. On par with prison designs. Great views of the parking garage. I am still not sure who wants to pay up for living in this spot but adding the ugliness of this complex isn't going to help. Maybe this cheap design will yield cheap rents to get tenants.
This is going to be a real blight on Khan's hopes for the area. A $2 billion stadium and a Four Season's hotel living side by side with this garbage?
Just another gross example of this City's lack of aesthetic standards and willingness to let any project move forward just for the sake of appeasing developers. In the long run, they just infect a whole area with low class outcomes and future development will be reduced in the name of today's development.
https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/rise-doro-construction-photos/
(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Rise-Doro---November-2023/i-8WrnbWB/0/637cf70c/L/20231122_161329-L.jpg)
(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Rise-Doro---November-2023/i-H7xHF2r/0/449ebc4a/L/20231122_161425-L.jpg)
(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Rise-Doro---November-2023/i-sPH4kHm/0/7c5418bf/L/20231122_164039-L.jpg)
(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Rise-Doro---November-2023/i-CSVnLLn/0/a4a445ec/L/20231122_161953-L.jpg)
It's not the prettiest building in the world but I also think the quality of the pictures make it seem worse than what it is. In person, it looks fine and once it's finished it will enhance the street level vibrancy of the area.
Of course, living in a high traffic environment adjacent to concert arenas and sports stadiums won't be appealing to everyone but it is to many prospective residents who want the hustle and bustle that comes with this location. A lot of the interest in living here is coming from young professionals, season ticket holders for the Jags that want to be closer to the stadium, out of towners wanting to live in an urban environment, and empty nesters wanting to downsize and live an active lifestyle. Pretty much the same demographic living in other apartment communities downtown. The rates aren't outrageous for the location and amenities that go along with it and the financials will only get stronger as the rest of the area continues to build up.
In terms of it's effect on Khan's vision, I'm sure having over 200 units with a street level and rooftop restaurant plus discounted rents for Jaguars employees will only further solidify his decision to invest in the area.
QuoteIt's not the prettiest building in the world but I also think the quality of the pictures make it seem worse than what it is. In person, it looks fine and once it's finished it will enhance the street level vibrancy of the area.
LOL, pictures look pretty clear to me. The color scheme makes me think of things happening when I am nauseous ;D and there seems to be little to no variation in color and almost no detailing on the face of the building sides. Having the garage dominate the courtyard view and an outside view looking down on what amounts to something akin to an alley with Manifest doesn't seem too exciting either. The scale of the building to that "alley" also is overwhelming from the street level given the narrow distance from one side of the open street to the other. Just my opinion... sorry if I offended the architects.
Great if they find tenants... but, I won't be a candidate! And, I would definitely be a NIMBY if this ever came to my part of town.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on December 03, 2023, 11:20:06 PM
QuoteIt's not the prettiest building in the world but I also think the quality of the pictures make it seem worse than what it is. In person, it looks fine and once it's finished it will enhance the street level vibrancy of the area.
LOL, pictures look pretty clear to me. The color scheme makes me think of things happening when I am nauseous ;D and there seems to be little to no variation in color and almost no detailing on the face of the building sides. Having the garage dominate the courtyard view and an outside view looking down on what amounts to something akin to an alley with Manifest doesn't seem too exciting either. The scale of the building to that "alley" also is overwhelming from the street level given the narrow distance from one side of the open street to the other. Just my opinion... sorry if I offended the architects.
Great if they find tenants... but, I won't be a candidate! And, I would definitely be a NIMBY if this ever came to my part of town.
Hmm. It does kind of remind you of "The Projects" in a way don't it? I've never lived in the Projects but believe me I've seen my share of them and this PROJECT screams PROJECTS.
There's still a lot to do before this thing is finished. I think it will look better once completed. Considering that this is a pioneering project into a part of downtown that could use some 24/7 residents to add to the vibrancy, I think it's fine. If this were proposed for the Landing parcel, I'd be disappointed.
I was thinking all these similarly designed buildings resemble circuit boards...guess it's our stark new reality.
I've never been accused of having great tastes when it comes to architecture, but driving by Rise Doro each day as it's come out of the ground, I think she's looking great. Still would have preferred the earlier Doro District plans that preserved the original buildings, but every time I see it, it looks a little better with additional finish. Reminds me a bit of Vista Brooklyn. Fancier projects may follow if and when the market improves and the costs can be justified, but for now, I'm pretty happy to have 200+ additional residential units, with ground and rooftop retail, coming out of the ground at a relatively modest cost to taxpayers versus some of the other projects we're seeing. No completion grant for the Doro. No cash from the city. Just a 65% REV grant (vs. 75% for most other projects), capped at around $6.5 million. Would happily take several more like this.
Looks fine to me. Can't imagine they'll have a hard time finding tenants either. Downtown, Southbank, San Marco and SPR are filling up, and this is the only thing like it near the stadium.
^ Can you tell me what is so "great" or "fine" that appeals to you? The color scheme, the repetitious window and balcony rows with no detailing, the street presence facing Manifest, the courtyard view of the parking garage...
In fairness, I am relying on the article's pix and haven't seen it in person nor have I had the benefit of seeing any modifications since the pix were taken. If something new is going on, please share what that is and why it makes it better.
Maybe it is just the nature of apartment construction... build just enough to create the living spaces over and over again, by the hundreds, and don't worry about addressing the inherent boredom of the design that accompanies that. It's not any different for cookie cutter housing developments.
For a price, anyone can sell something and I don't doubt they will find takers. I have read that the apartment market is softening so it will be interesting to see how they price it and the response they get. If there is indeed a shortage vs. demand, they probably will get a good occupancy number. The real test will be if demand lags supply.
Good design doesn't have to cost more, it can just take a little more thought and creativity. If you see that here, please point it out since I am currently blind to it. For me, I just don't see where that effort was made and feel the City could have at least asked for that in return for its incentives, no matter the amount.
I guess it could be worse... take this in China 8):
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/09778919b23a3d92355689ee979bd2817be25e57/0_217_6513_3908/master/6513.jpg?width=620&dpr=2&s=none)
(https://images.wsj.net/im-414493?width=2000&height=1200)
For some context, the cheapest one bedroom they have listed currently is $1,850 for a 675 SF unit. That's more than every single San Marco & Brooklyn apartment building. Those San Marco & Brooklyn units also being larger... these units really aren't a discount in anyway, and the only Jags employees living here at these rates likely aren't living in apartments. (Maybe the Jags will get a nice discount on their rent.)
For several hundred dollars less, you get more space & a real retail environment. Word is that they are having issues leasing the apartments in particular. Maybe will just take time but I do feel bad for the Doro in that they expected a lot of other things to be happening back when they started planning.
I think we have to appreciate the risk takers like RISE, for going in first. I'm not optimistic in the short term but hopefully there is demand for the product, just not at rates well exceeding the more premium downtown markets. Once a rental base is established, there's room for more creativity with the design & engineering of these projects.
Older office buildings had a lot of flair to them, because the tenants were often successful, and were willing to pay for that "image." The same just isn't justifiable when you are trying to build market rate apartments in our market. (Beaches are the only exception).
Well, she's had a little setback, burning since around 11PM last night.
Smoke was still pouring out of it at 5:30 when I was headed to the airport this morning. Channel 4 Tower camera is showing active flames across what looks like the roof of the entire structure as of 7AM.
Another empty lot on the way!
I believe it was supposed to open this week. Multiple floors collapsed. Not good.
QuoteJFRD Fire Capt. Eric Prosswimmer told News4JAX that no one was inside the building, as far as they know. He said much of the building looked to be destroyed and there are continuing concerns the structure could collapse.
Sounds like they'll have to start over.
So sad. Berkman 3.0
This just set us back.. really surprising to wake up to. Hopefully they can figure out a solution in a timely manner.
One of the few pieces of progress downtown in years, and it goes up in flames.
In a span of just over a month, we went from "hearing rumors they're having a hard time signing leases" to a fire big enough to require the whole building be torn down. The juju from Shad Khan's Jaguars continues to spill over into every aspect of downtown.
Real bummer. Feel so bad for the developer. Hopefully something is salvageable for the rebuild, even if just the parking garage.
They were leasing for March 1st and appear to have a lot of availability. There are at least 46 units still available for March 1st, though it's possible they don't even have every possible unit listed as available on the website.
https://leasing.risedoro.com/jacksonville/rise-doro/conventional/
Quote from: CityLife on January 29, 2024, 09:18:14 AM
They were leasing for March 1st and appear to have a lot of availability. There are at least 46 units still available for March 1st, though it's possible they don't even have every possible unit listed as available on the website.
https://leasing.risedoro.com/jacksonville/rise-doro/conventional/
https://risedoro.com/siteplan/
This shows the availability better. Most of the units were still available.
Quote from: Jax_Developer on January 29, 2024, 09:37:16 AM
Quote from: CityLife on January 29, 2024, 09:18:14 AM
They were leasing for March 1st and appear to have a lot of availability. There are at least 46 units still available for March 1st, though it's possible they don't even have every possible unit listed as available on the website.
https://leasing.risedoro.com/jacksonville/rise-doro/conventional/
https://risedoro.com/siteplan/
This shows the availability better. Most of the units were still available.
Good find. I looked earlier and there was a lot more availability than the 46 I posted about, and that was also while offering free rent for 2 months with no application fees.
They've made the website dead, with every page thanking JFRD for the fire response.
While not a fan of this project, I still feel bad for the developer that this has happened.
So many times, these large "stick" apartment projects endure this tragedy around the U.S. that I am surprised, at some point in the construction, insurers don't require more stringent loss control including off-hours security. One loss like this will pay for a lot of security guard hours.
Cause could be arson, homeless encampment, careless contractor, etc. I also note that many contractor tools use lithium batteries today. If some were being recharged, unattended, inside the structure, this might be another possibility. It's why you can't check them in your luggage on a plane anymore.
Berkman II wasn't stick frame. Unfortunate events occasionally happen during the construction process, regardless of the type of construction.
Years ago the Quarter at Ybor condo project (https://maps.app.goo.gl/JPCX2uZUto6JLEMS6) burned down during construction.
One of the large buildings at Fusion Apartments (https://maps.app.goo.gl/qAwvYgrUbzmFkebZ9) on East Baymeadows also was destroyed by fire during the construction process. I believe everything was destroyed except for the parking garage. It took them a few extra years of construction, but both projects ended up rebuilding.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 29, 2024, 12:53:16 PM
Berkman II wasn't stick frame. Unfortunate events occasionally happen during the construction process, regardless of the type of construction.
To be clear, I was specifically referring to fire events, not building collapses like Berkman or other possibilities.
Orlando had a big wood frame apartment building burn down during construction too. So it's not uncommon.
Wow. Unbelievable. What next, another 1901 type of fire? Where's Mrs. Oleary?
Mayor Deegan providing an update (https://x.com/MayorDeegan/status/1752108429747830983?s=20) on Twitter:
QuoteHere is the latest information on the Rise Doro apartment fire:
- Our city engineers have determined that it is no longer structurally sound.
- We learned that the sprinkler system was not activated because it was pending a final pressure check during the fire inspection that was supposed to happen this week
- Intuition Ale Works, Manifest Distilling, and the offices across A. Phillip Randolph are in the collapse zone and will be unable to open until we have completed the demolition of the wood frame portion of the Doro building.
I want to once again thank our @THEJFRD firefighters who have been working around the clock since 9:30 last night to contain the fire. We're grateful for their bravery, hard work, and dedication.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GFC9U5xWwAAjZDP?format=jpg&name=large)
Such a tragedy, but that's what insurance is for. Thank God no one was hurt.
Quote from: Tacachale on January 30, 2024, 09:44:47 AM
Such a tragedy, but that's what insurance is for. Thank God no one was hurt.
I talked to a seasoned fire inspector this morning about the fire. He said that it would be normal for the fire suppression system and fire alarms to not be operational until they passed inspection (or around time of C/O), so nothing out of the ordinary there. However, he said that he has inspected numerous wood framed apartments and always ensures that stairs are completed ASAP so that any fires can be sufficiently treated. He said there is language in the National Fire Protection Association code that requires this. He said there are a lot of instances of insurance companies not paying fire claims out when the fire code was not properly followed.
It's purely speculation, since he doesn't know the specifics of the case; but he said that it's likely the insurance company will fight the insurance claim if it has any evidence that construction issues led to the fire or limited JFRD's ability to fight the fire. The lack of completed stairs could become an issue in his opinion. Hopefully that doesn't happen.
^ My observation of these sites is that the stairwells are the first thing built (and then surrounded with the stick portions of the project) as they are concrete block. I would think they would populate the wells with the stairs while building them so it would be surprising that they were not done upfront and would need to come back later.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on January 30, 2024, 11:45:49 AM
^ My observation of these sites is that the stairwells are the first thing built (and then surrounded with the stick portions of the project) as they are concrete block. I would think they would populate the wells with the stairs while building them so it would be surprising that they were not done upfront and would need to come back later.
"Prosswimmer said that since the apartment complex was under construction, there were aspects that made the fire tricky to reach, including but not limited to unfinished staircases and debris."
https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/jfrd-responds-reported-downtown-commercial-building-fire-massive-presence-reported/I4QXUQX2Y5A7XDLYSKYXJOVUEM/
I don't know what happened, but CityLife you make a great point that I was also pondering. There's seemingly very little reasoning as to why the project would have the initial landscaping installed, but not the stairs? I like to say I somewhat understand construction but that one really doesn't add up to me. When we build, the stairs are always done after the rough frame is up. Obviously I'm not building 200+ unit apartment buildings, but intuitively... it just makes sense. My question is how else were they getting to all of the other levels with efficiency? Usually two elevators doesn't cut it & moreover how would the elevators be operational before the stairs?? Were some stairs done & others were not? It doesn't really add up.
Anyone that builds apartments able to say one way or another?
Quote from: CityLife on January 30, 2024, 11:58:11 AM
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on January 30, 2024, 11:45:49 AM
^ My observation of these sites is that the stairwells are the first thing built (and then surrounded with the stick portions of the project) as they are concrete block. I would think they would populate the wells with the stairs while building them so it would be surprising that they were not done upfront and would need to come back later.
"Prosswimmer said that since the apartment complex was under construction, there were aspects that made the fire tricky to reach, including but not limited to unfinished staircases and debris."
https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/jfrd-responds-reported-downtown-commercial-building-fire-massive-presence-reported/I4QXUQX2Y5A7XDLYSKYXJOVUEM/
Doesn't sound good for someone if correct that fire codes and insurers required stairs sooner than later. Maybe they had a supply chain issue but still... if they plan to open in about 30 to 45 days, you would think that would be done long ago.
Sounds like a bunch of speculation at this point. We'll see what happens in the upcoming weeks.
Here's an article about why wood frame construction has become common. If you all think housing prices are high and affordable housing is a crisis now, imagine what they'd be if everything had to be built with concrete and steel...
https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2024/01/29/wood-frame-construction-like-what-was-used-in-rise-doro-is-common-in-florida-because-of-cost-but-there-are-risks/
Quote from: thelakelander on January 30, 2024, 12:16:34 PM
Sounds like a bunch of speculation at this point. We'll see what happens in the upcoming weeks.
Here's an article about why wood frame construction has become common. If you all think housing prices are high and affordable housing is a crisis now, imagine what they'd be if everything had to be built with concrete and steel...
https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2024/01/29/wood-frame-construction-like-what-was-used-in-rise-doro-is-common-in-florida-because-of-cost-but-there-are-risks/
I'm not against using wood frame, it's the only practical option right now. But all building & construction code includes fire walls & more for R2 dwellings. Not being able to localize a fire is an issue, no matter the structure material. That's the real issue to be highlighted, if true, in this situation.
Build it nice, or build it twice.
Quote from: Jax_Developer on January 30, 2024, 01:32:25 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on January 30, 2024, 12:16:34 PM
Sounds like a bunch of speculation at this point. We'll see what happens in the upcoming weeks.
Here's an article about why wood frame construction has become common. If you all think housing prices are high and affordable housing is a crisis now, imagine what they'd be if everything had to be built with concrete and steel...
https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2024/01/29/wood-frame-construction-like-what-was-used-in-rise-doro-is-common-in-florida-because-of-cost-but-there-are-risks/
I'm not against using wood frame, it's the only practical option right now. But all building & construction code includes fire walls & more for R2 dwellings. Not being able to localize a fire is an issue, no matter the structure material. That's the real issue to be highlighted, if true, in this situation.
This part is speculation at this point. I'm sure it will be confirmed one way or the other in the upcoming weeks.
Feel awful for Intuition and Manifest.
Sounds like it's going to be a minute before either can reopen.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 30, 2024, 01:52:34 PM
Quote from: Jax_Developer on January 30, 2024, 01:32:25 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on January 30, 2024, 12:16:34 PM
Sounds like a bunch of speculation at this point. We'll see what happens in the upcoming weeks.
Here's an article about why wood frame construction has become common. If you all think housing prices are high and affordable housing is a crisis now, imagine what they'd be if everything had to be built with concrete and steel...
https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2024/01/29/wood-frame-construction-like-what-was-used-in-rise-doro-is-common-in-florida-because-of-cost-but-there-are-risks/
I'm not against using wood frame, it's the only practical option right now. But all building & construction code includes fire walls & more for R2 dwellings. Not being able to localize a fire is an issue, no matter the structure material. That's the real issue to be highlighted, if true, in this situation.
This part is speculation at this point. I'm sure it will be confirmed one way or the other in the upcoming weeks.
Agreed. One other consideration is that buildings like this should have firewalls, but generally they are like 2 hour rated and such. They also compliment the fire suppression systems (which were not operational yet). The firewalls don't hold forever-they are so a person can safely evacuate.
As the building was empty, we have no idea how long the fire was smoldering/burning lightly before it was noticed and 911 was called.
Now with all of this said....if the building isn't structurally sound and has to come down soon, will we ever know what happened?
I think you guys believe that they were much further along than they were... It sounds like you're comparing a finished building to what they had. If you look up the permit, they haven't completed a number of their inspections.
They're required to have an hour separation between all units vertically and horizontally - they just weren't done yet. So I'm doubtful that it's a constructability issue regarding the fire rating or construction type that would have helped contain the fire. They just had an open box of wood that was ready to burn, which isn't anyone's fault.
Except security I guess.
I'm not claiming the stairs thing to be fact. I just saw it mentioned on an article and it was mentioned here. The specific language used was voids by the JFRD spokesperson. I can understand that the fire suppression system not being active is a big deal, but JFRD themselves claimed that they thought the fire was contained within 2.5 hrs of being onsite. 1 hr dividing walls add up when you have several units in every direction.
What doesn't make sense to me, is that there were supposed to be residents moving in "next week." So, was the building still "under construction" or "almost complete" because those are two very different conversations. Yes I know that these units do not all complete at once, but it's not like the main building systems are not all functional when a C.O. is granted. If the building was "almost complete" then the fact that this building burned like it did is honestly shocking. There shouldn't be a numerous amount of open voids & the voids that do remain don't have a massive cubic volume relative to the size of the space. Like JFRD claimed, the fire should have been contained in a few hours, with a partial building loss. Or, tenants were not moving in next week. Simple as that.
Quote from: Jax_Developer on January 30, 2024, 07:28:13 PM
I'm not claiming the stairs thing to be fact. I just saw it mentioned on an article and it was mentioned here. The specific language used was voids by the JFRD spokesperson. I can understand that the fire suppression system not being active is a big deal, but JFRD themselves claimed that they thought the fire was contained within 2.5 hrs of being onsite. 1 hr dividing walls add up when you have several units in every direction.
What doesn't make sense to me, is that there were supposed to be residents moving in "next week." So, was the building still "under construction" or "almost complete" because those are two very different conversations. Yes I know that these units do not all complete at once, but it's not like the main building systems are not all functional when a C.O. is granted. If the building was "almost complete" then the fact that this building burned like it did is honestly shocking. There shouldn't be a numerous amount of open voids & the voids that do remain don't have a massive cubic volume relative to the size of the space. Like JFRD claimed, the fire should have been contained in a few hours, with a partial building loss. Or, tenants were not moving in next week. Simple as that.
Was supposed to open (at least partially) on Thursday, specifically.
No idea about why certain parts weren't further along.
Not claiming to know anything, I'm literally just confused (and a little concerned) at how it was supposed to be occupancy ready that soon like you say fsu. That's crazy close all things considered.
Quote from: Jax_Developer on January 30, 2024, 09:35:28 PM
Not claiming to know anything, I'm literally just confused (and a little concerned) at how it was supposed to be occupancy ready that soon like you say fsu. That's crazy close all things considered.
Others may have mentioned occupancy; I did not.
Quote from: Jax_Developer on January 30, 2024, 09:35:28 PM
Not claiming to know anything, I'm literally just confused (and a little concerned) at how it was supposed to be occupancy ready that soon like you say fsu. That's crazy close all things considered.
Its quite possible, the local reporting about this incident has included some speculation as well. Reporters aren't construction experts. So unless the person writing the article has been inside the place and seen the construction for themselves, its all second hand information. As mentioned earlier, we'll (including JFRD) know more as time goes on.
Quote from: fsu813 on January 30, 2024, 08:24:29 PM
Quote from: Jax_Developer on January 30, 2024, 07:28:13 PM
I'm not claiming the stairs thing to be fact. I just saw it mentioned on an article and it was mentioned here. The specific language used was voids by the JFRD spokesperson. I can understand that the fire suppression system not being active is a big deal, but JFRD themselves claimed that they thought the fire was contained within 2.5 hrs of being onsite. 1 hr dividing walls add up when you have several units in every direction.
What doesn't make sense to me, is that there were supposed to be residents moving in "next week." So, was the building still "under construction" or "almost complete" because those are two very different conversations. Yes I know that these units do not all complete at once, but it's not like the main building systems are not all functional when a C.O. is granted. If the building was "almost complete" then the fact that this building burned like it did is honestly shocking. There shouldn't be a numerous amount of open voids & the voids that do remain don't have a massive cubic volume relative to the size of the space. Like JFRD claimed, the fire should have been contained in a few hours, with a partial building loss. Or, tenants were not moving in next week. Simple as that.
Was supposed to open (at least partially) on Thursday, specifically.
No idea about why certain parts weren't further along.
I thought that was an opening date when I read it. I looked it up and this article has Donna claiming March 1. (https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/fire/2024/01/29/jacksonville-firefighters-battle-apartment-building-blaze/72392989007/)
That timeline makes more sense. Unfortunate timing. I think you are right Lake, seen a few variations of things now.
^ having tenants moving in to live, and the building being open for staff, are two different things. It was going to be open, at least partially as you bolded, on Thursday. I don't build mixed use multifamily. Don't know what else to tell ya.
But I digress.... Moon River Pizza: discuss.
Quote from: fsu813 on January 31, 2024, 06:04:37 AM
^ having tenants moving in to live, and the building being open for staff, are two different things. It was going to be open, at least partially as you bolded, on Thursday. I don't build mixed use multifamily. Don't know what else to tell ya.
But I digress.... Moon River Pizza: discuss.
Right, was thinking that tenants were moving in that fast but I got your point. The extra 6 weeks for tenants does mean a lot here.
It's possible that they had an agreement with COJ/JFRD to be granted a Temporary CO (TCO) with strict conditions on what the building could be used for once the fire suppression test and all other life safety inspections were completed. I've managed a couple of building departments and virtually every large project is granted a TCO for limited use of the property once all life safety issues are resolved.
Speculation based on experience, but I would guess that Rise requested a TCO ASAP to open up internal offices and a leasing office/model units to show to prospective tenants in advance of the first official move in of tenants. I do agree with JaxDeveloper that it seems improbable that actual tenants would be moving in with so many incomplete inspections. If so, that seems reckless.
I doubt we ever get the full story though. Rise was using a private provider for inspections. This is totally legal, but it is well known in the development/construction industry that private providers often (not always) inspect buildings with less scrutiny than in house inspectors. It's extremely difficult to find competent building inspectors in Florida, so Building Departments are currently stretched very thin. Developers of large projects that have a steady flow of inspections prefer private providers because they can manage the workload and timing of inspections better, and also have more influence over them. This does often result in the cutting of corners. Especially when a developer is in a rush due to financing, pre-sales/leases, or contractual obligations.
Again, not saying any corners were cut, but IF they were, I doubt we would hear anything, as it would reflect poorly on COJ/JFRD.
Quote from: CityLife on January 29, 2024, 11:30:20 AM
Quote from: Jax_Developer on January 29, 2024, 09:37:16 AM
Quote from: CityLife on January 29, 2024, 09:18:14 AM
They were leasing for March 1st and appear to have a lot of availability. There are at least 46 units still available for March 1st, though it's possible they don't even have every possible unit listed as available on the website.
https://leasing.risedoro.com/jacksonville/rise-doro/conventional/
https://risedoro.com/siteplan/
This shows the availability better. Most of the units were still available.
Good find. I looked earlier and there was a lot more availability than the 46 I posted about, and that was also while offering free rent for 2 months with no application fees.
They've made the website dead, with every page thanking JFRD for the fire response.
Question for those who know the luxury apartment rental market.
Do you typically see properties valued at $263k per door offering incentives such as no application fee and free two months of rent? The only recent data I could find was on Jax Daily Record that Avere Southside Quarter just sold for $242k per door reporting 90% occupancy.
In any market, Tribeca or East New York, you will see incentives like you mentioned when there is an oversupply of rentals in that submarket. Not unusual for luxury apartments to do that.
Slightly more detail surrounding the reported occupancy scheduled for this week:
https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2024/01/31/rise-doro-was-set-to-open-this-weekend-to-residents-but-not-all-of-its-permits-were-in-place/
QuoteFor some sources who spoke to News4JAX, the idea that the complex was set to open at all was a surprise. It had not received what is called a "certificate of use or occupancy." That certificate means it meets zoning ordinances, building codes and fire prevention codes.
Sources told News4JAX RISE Doro was to get that final fire inspection this week.
...
Across the river in San Marco, The Station at San Marco apartment complex is beginning to lease. It's similar to RISE Doro.
The Station has a certificate of occupancy for half of its building. On the other side of the complex, it's still doing construction but it has been doing testing and owners expect to get the certificate for occupancy shortly.
So, maybe it's possible a portion of the building was more complete and could have been suitable to occupy, while in other portions stairwells and fire breaks were yet to be completed? Nevertheless, a failed fire inspection sounds like it would've delayed occupancy.
I reached out to a former Building Official of mine, who has a lot of experience with mid and high rise multi-family projects. His mind was blown when I told him that COJ was apparently going to grant a TCO for the first residents to move in so close to the final fire suppression inspection. One, it pressures the inspectors to let something slide when it is 50/50 and two it just does not give enough time to button up any other outstanding issues. I won't share his theories on what actually went down because it's speculation, but he has a lot of skepticism about the fire.
I know some with connections to the Mayor's office read and post here. He and I both recommend reaching out to the Building Officials Association of Florida (BOAF) for an independent review of COJ/JFRD's permitting and inspection process. They should be able to provide an informal review of the process and make recommendations on what can be improved in the future. If not that, then hire an independent Building Official to review the process.
Quote from: jaxoNOLE on January 31, 2024, 11:20:32 PM
Slightly more detail surrounding the reported occupancy scheduled for this week:
https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2024/01/31/rise-doro-was-set-to-open-this-weekend-to-residents-but-not-all-of-its-permits-were-in-place/
QuoteFor some sources who spoke to News4JAX, the idea that the complex was set to open at all was a surprise. It had not received what is called a "certificate of use or occupancy." That certificate means it meets zoning ordinances, building codes and fire prevention codes.
Sources told News4JAX RISE Doro was to get that final fire inspection this week.
...
Across the river in San Marco, The Station at San Marco apartment complex is beginning to lease. It's similar to RISE Doro.
The Station has a certificate of occupancy for half of its building. On the other side of the complex, it's still doing construction but it has been doing testing and owners expect to get the certificate for occupancy shortly.
So, maybe it's possible a portion of the building was more complete and could have been suitable to occupy, while in other portions stairwells and fire breaks were yet to be completed? Nevertheless, a failed fire inspection sounds like it would've delayed occupancy.
Almost 100% certainty that was their plan as well. If you look at the permits, there are roughly 1/3 of the units with finalized electrical permits. That typically means the units mechanicals are completed. So part of the building was 100% further along than the rest.
That building would have gone into foreclosure if it didn't secure 70% occupancy ish by the end of their lease up period. Typically 6-9 months. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but it's extremely difficult to look the other way here. The Station at San Marco is at 40% lease up rate right now according to their website, which makes sense given they have half of their units are available. The Station at San Marco only opened for leasing Q3-2023. Doro began their pre-leasing efforts Q3-2023 as well. You can argue they have less leases signed because it's not complete, but I'm not sure that's accurate.
Before the listings were taken down, the Doro was charging more PSF than
EVERY apartment building downtown. The Station, Hendricks, Southerly, Vista, were all
cheaper options than the RISE Doro. The Doro was arguably the most expensive apartment project, rents wise, in the entire urban area (excluding beaches). So when you look at the lease-up as of 1/28/2024 being at 8 units of 247 total units, it paints a bad picture. Do we really think they were going to secure another 40 leases before their grand opening? That's like 2 signed-leases per business day. They were on a pretty serious timeline, a timeline that involved a $60M foreclosure in almost any scenario other than them reducing rents by more than 20-30%. And if the debt was collateralized...
Furthermore, who were their expected retail tenants? I think these are all very reasonable questions to ask considering the insane timing of this entire event.
Could the "first occupants" just be whoever was going to run the rooftop bar and pool area? I can see that space opening up before residential tenants move in.
Quote from: Josh on February 01, 2024, 10:08:56 AM
Could the "first occupants" just be whoever was going to run the rooftop bar and pool area? I can see that space opening up before residential tenants move in.
"We had eight residents who were due to move in this coming weekend. We've contacted each of them as [Jacksonville Mayor Donna] Deegan said. Most families have been offered places at RISE properties throughout the greater Jacksonville community, and some took us up on that already," said owner Greg Blais.
I think I heard a news report say that demolition will take a few weeks. I can't find the article online, and don't remember the number of weeks, but it was more than 3 or 4 I'm sure. Intuition Ale Works has several music events scheduled throughout February. Obviously, these will not take place. Plus their regular business during the closure (with assumed spikes for events in the sports complex) I would assume Intuition will seek compensation from the Rise insurance carrier. Does Intuition - and perhaps the performers - have a good chance of recouping their losses? Same thing for Manifest Distillery, and the "offices" (what is in that building?) across APR.
And, if some of the speculation related here is true - that there might be something that would cause the insurance company to deny or reduce the claim - where will these businesses be?
Great questions Charles. Those two are the biggest victims here. I hope they are compensated through their own or Rise's insurance for the loss in revenue. I imagine that missing out on Super Bowl Sunday will be a big loss for them both.
My question for everyone is do you think Rise will try to rebuild when they receive their insurance claim? Assuming of course that the claim does not mandate rebuilding. Yes, I'm aware that Rise is currently saying they intend to rebuild, but nobody in their right mind would say, "we were having a hard time with the lease up and are not going to rebuild" before receiving the insurance claim. There is already wild speculation about the cause of the fire and a statement like that would only fan the flames.
Quote from: CityLife on February 01, 2024, 10:24:28 AM
Quote from: Josh on February 01, 2024, 10:08:56 AM
Could the "first occupants" just be whoever was going to run the rooftop bar and pool area? I can see that space opening up before residential tenants move in.
"We had eight residents who were due to move in this coming weekend. We've contacted each of them as [Jacksonville Mayor Donna] Deegan said. Most families have been offered places at RISE properties throughout the greater Jacksonville community, and some took us up on that already," said owner Greg Blais.
Ah, missed that tidbit.
Quote from: CityLife on February 01, 2024, 10:37:05 AM
Great questions Charles. Those two are the biggest victims here. I hope they are compensated through their own or Rise's insurance for the loss in revenue. I imagine that missing out on Super Bowl Sunday will be a big loss for them both.
My question for everyone is do you think Rise will try to rebuild when they receive their insurance claim? Assuming of course that the claim does not mandate rebuilding. Yes, I'm aware that Rise is currently saying they intend to rebuild, but nobody in their right mind would say, "we were having a hard time with the lease up and are not going to rebuild" before receiving the insurance claim. There is already wild speculation about the cause of the fire and a statement like that would only fan the flames.
Intuition has already moved their annual Underdark release party back a few weeks, and will likely have to move it back again since I'd bet that building will still be standing 2/17. That's their biggest annual event from my perspective.
It's all a huge mess, and given my view as a pessimist, the Doro parcel is going to remain an empty lot for quite a few years. I feel like the developers (along with everyone who has opened a small business in the urban core in the last several years) thought the city would have made more progress downtown by now. We're still talking about the Trio, Lenny's Lawn, etc.
Quote from: CityLife on February 01, 2024, 10:37:05 AM
Great questions Charles. Those two are the biggest victims here. I hope they are compensated through their own or Rise's insurance for the loss in revenue. I imagine that missing out on Super Bowl Sunday will be a big loss for them both.
My question for everyone is do you think Rise will try to rebuild when they receive their insurance claim? Assuming of course that the claim does not mandate rebuilding. Yes, I'm aware that Rise is currently saying they intend to rebuild, but nobody in their right mind would say, "we were having a hard time with the lease up and are not going to rebuild" before receiving the insurance claim. There is already wild speculation about the cause of the fire and a statement like that would only fan the flames.
Right that's my question. I'm not implying that they won't rebuild if indeed this was a freak accident. However, I'm skeptical that there isn't some lapse in the insurance coverage given what we 'kinda' know. Having a hard time with leasing only means the owners are in a much harder financial position, even prior to the final CO. If even one corner was cut, I feel like their claim could be impacted. I have to imagine that they have a rebuilding mandate, given the fact that they are leaving the foundation & the parking garage. I would be concerned if they don't frankly. Their other projects are doing quite well, why not feed more resources there and make 20-30% as an almost guarantee?
This will be highly dependent on the specifics of the insurance coverages each party carries.
If Intuition and Manifest carry business interruption insurance that is properly endorsed with Civil Authority coverage, then they'd be entitled to compensation from their own policies because they are being denied access to their property by government order. Outside of that, if there hasn't been direct physical loss to their own premises as a result of the fire or suppression efforts, it's hard to imagine any other coverage of theirs facilitating a payment.
Seeking compensation from RISE is likely to be a drawn-out process, as liability is going to boil down to the cause of the fire and whether reasonable prevention/safety measures were in place. Even if they are compensated under their own insurance as I described above, Intuition/Manifest's insurers may subrogate against RISE if it's believed there's liability on their part. If business interruption insurance wasn't in place, the best they can probably hope for is a settlement offer from RISE's insurer to avoid litigation over ancillary aspects of the claim as compared to the real exposure -- the $60M building. A litigation outcome that hinges on allocating liability would take years and has no chance of delivering cashflow compensation fast enough to offset the loss of revenue. Any resident attorneys here could offer a far more informed opinion on that piece than I.
^Looks like we have a graduate of the top ranked Risk Management program from FSU. Great info jaxoNOLE. Clearly going to be a complex and drawn-out process as you stated.
I hope the employees of Intuition and Manifest don't have to wait to long to receive any lost wages/compensation, as I imagine some of them are living paycheck to paycheck. Hopefully their insurer pays their claim out quickly, then subrogates against RISE.
Quote from: Jax_Developer on February 01, 2024, 09:04:51 AM
That building would have gone into foreclosure if it didn't secure 70% occupancy ish by the end of their lease up period. Typically 6-9 months. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but it's extremely difficult to look the other way here. The Station at San Marco is at 40% lease up rate right now according to their website, which makes sense given they have half of their units are available. The Station at San Marco only opened for leasing Q3-2023. Doro began their pre-leasing efforts Q3-2023 as well. You can argue they have less leases signed because it's not complete, but I'm not sure that's accurate.
Before the listings were taken down, the Doro was charging more PSF than EVERY apartment building downtown. The Station, Hendricks, Southerly, Vista, were all cheaper options than the RISE Doro. The Doro was arguably the most expensive apartment project, rents wise, in the entire urban area (excluding beaches). So when you look at the lease-up as of 1/28/2024 being at 8 units of 247 total units, it paints a bad picture. Do we really think they were going to secure another 40 leases before their grand opening? That's like 2 signed-leases per business day. They were on a pretty serious timeline, a timeline that involved a $60M foreclosure in almost any scenario other than them reducing rents by more than 20-30%. And if the debt was collateralized...
Furthermore, who were their expected retail tenants? I think these are all very reasonable questions to ask considering the insane timing of this entire event.
I don't want to say "I told you so" but.... from the first paragraph I started this thread with:
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on December 02, 2023, 12:38:19 AM
This looks to be one ugly building. On par with prison designs. Great views of the parking garage. I am still not sure who wants to pay up for living in this spot but adding the ugliness of this complex isn't going to help. Maybe this cheap design will yield cheap rents to get tenants.
Bad location and poor aesthetics don't make for a successful "premium rent" apartment property. If they rebuild, they should seriously look at a new design for the building exteriors.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on February 01, 2024, 10:11:34 PM
Quote from: Jax_Developer on February 01, 2024, 09:04:51 AM
That building would have gone into foreclosure if it didn't secure 70% occupancy ish by the end of their lease up period. Typically 6-9 months. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but it's extremely difficult to look the other way here. The Station at San Marco is at 40% lease up rate right now according to their website, which makes sense given they have half of their units are available. The Station at San Marco only opened for leasing Q3-2023. Doro began their pre-leasing efforts Q3-2023 as well. You can argue they have less leases signed because it's not complete, but I'm not sure that's accurate.
Before the listings were taken down, the Doro was charging more PSF than EVERY apartment building downtown. The Station, Hendricks, Southerly, Vista, were all cheaper options than the RISE Doro. The Doro was arguably the most expensive apartment project, rents wise, in the entire urban area (excluding beaches). So when you look at the lease-up as of 1/28/2024 being at 8 units of 247 total units, it paints a bad picture. Do we really think they were going to secure another 40 leases before their grand opening? That's like 2 signed-leases per business day. They were on a pretty serious timeline, a timeline that involved a $60M foreclosure in almost any scenario other than them reducing rents by more than 20-30%. And if the debt was collateralized...
Furthermore, who were their expected retail tenants? I think these are all very reasonable questions to ask considering the insane timing of this entire event.
I don't want to say "I told you so" but.... from the first paragraph I started this thread with:
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on December 02, 2023, 12:38:19 AM
This looks to be one ugly building. On par with prison designs. Great views of the parking garage. I am still not sure who wants to pay up for living in this spot but adding the ugliness of this complex isn't going to help. Maybe this cheap design will yield cheap rents to get tenants.
Bad location and poor aesthetics don't make for a successful "premium rent" apartment property. If they rebuild, they should seriously look at a new design for the building exteriors.
- Building will be demolished by early summer 2024
- Insurance & Owner will go back & forth (maybe even surrounding businesses) until the end of the year
- RISE will start construction again in the first half of 2025
- Building will take 1.5 years or so to rebuild
- Now the year is 2027
'Now' they will enjoy the spoils of the Four Seasons being completed. The Jags stadium "district" will be a finalized deal & in permitting/construction. The riverfront parks will be underway... Things start to look a lot more rosy wouldn't you say jax? Almost like what they were expecting to happen by the time they opened up but we Jacksonville'd them... lol.
That is one fugly building. Couldn't agree more with jaxlongtimer. To me, it reeks of cheap. Looks like it would look chintzy in a short time. Even the signage looks like bargain basement. There had to be a huge profit margin on this place. This entire episode seems fishy.
The amount of rampant BS speculation on this thread needs to come to an end.
Doro was NOT having 'leasing issues' and risking foreclosure. A little more than 100 of the units were going to be STRs. The available units available for long-term occupancy being opened by March weren't the remaining full inventory minus the STRs.
Since a new broker took over marketing of the retail spaces, the interest among potential retail tenants was actually pretty strong. They would have likely had two signed leases in place this year.
It sucks that the building caught on fire. The developer and their builders risk policy holder are moving forward with rebuilding. There isn't some mass conspiracy perpetrated by shady private building inspectors (they carry the same liability as a public inspector), a desperate developer, and a hoodwinked fire marshal. This isn't even remotely close to what happened at Berkman 2- the most important distinction being that no one lost their life at Doro. Demo is going to take some time, and that really sucks for Intuition, Manifest... and the events scheduled over the next couple of months at the Arena and the Baseball Grounds (which all pretty much have a full slate of events scheduled through April).
The speculation being paraded as expertise has become ridiculous.
Quote from: fieldafm on February 02, 2024, 10:31:23 AM
The amount of rampant BS speculation on this thread needs to come to an end.
Doro was NOT having 'leasing issues' and risking foreclosure. A little more than 100 of the units were going to be STRs. The available units available for long-term occupancy being opened by March weren't the remaining full inventory minus the STRs.
Since a new broker took over marketing of the retail spaces, the interest among potential retail tenants was actually pretty strong. They would have likely had two signed leases in place this year.
It sucks that the building caught on fire. The developer and their builders risk policy holder are moving forward with rebuilding. There isn't some mass conspiracy perpetrated by shady private building inspectors (they carry the same liability as a public inspector), a desperate developer, and a hoodwinked fire marshal. This isn't even remotely close to what happened at Berkman 2- the most important distinction being that no one lost their life at Doro. Demo is going to take some time, and that really sucks for Intuition, Manifest... and the events scheduled over the next couple of months at the Arena and the Baseball Grounds (which all pretty much have a full slate of events scheduled through April).
The speculation being paraded as expertise has become ridiculous.
STR's??? LOL. No point in elaborating any further there.
Nobody in here is claiming to be an expert. Nobody in here knows what 'actually' happened. The fact a $60M investment burned down a few days from a fire inspection. That leads to some questions. Nobody is saying arson. Myself & others are implying the possibility in a lapse in insurance coverage. The sheer expense of "experts" & "consultants" on these jobs 'should' prevent these issues once they are far enough along. It's not like this was a framed shell. Private inspectors are a non-issue here I agree.
Nonetheless, here are some "facts" for you:
- Permits were pulled 12/9/2020 (so by opening they would have been UC for over 30 months - CC is well into the Millions)
- They are owner/builders unlike virtually any other burned down building you could pull up for me
- RISE was the most expensive rent PSF (when advertised) of every apartment building we have in our urban area
For any developer, running 30+ month construction timeline, while also being the absolute top of the market is 100% crippling. Their monthly CC from not being at 70% occupancy would still nearly $100k. Not to mention a bank won't let you stabilize the debt. Never in my life have I heard/seen any large apartment building get financing with that many STR's. Demonstrates how dire of a situation they were in to even consider that as an option. Any private developer would laugh me out the room if that was my gameplan on something like this. I've been told I don't what I'm doing by doing a LOT less than something like that. Truly I hope that the STR story is misinformation.
100 STR's sounds close to a suite/extended stay hotel type property. Is that what everyone bargained for, including the City, with incentives?
They've already got the southern face torn off. Hopefully manifest and intuition can open sooner than later.
Glad to see them moving quick on this one.
Intuition will be back open tomorrow, according to their Twitter account.
Yea I know it's not Twitter anymore. But "X" is stupid.
Nice to hear.
QuoteThe developer of the Rise Doro apartment building is "very committed" to rebuilding the structure after it was heavily damaged by fire but is evaluating whether to redesign the project, said the chief executive of the Downtown Investment Authority.
DIA CEO Lori Boyer said she and her staff had met with developer Rise: A Real Estate Company and learned that it was examining whether to rebuild on the site using concrete and steel as opposed to wood framing.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2024/feb/09/dia-ceo-rise-considering-redesign-for-doro-apartment-rebuild/
It's too bad the building is in such bad shape they can't salvage appliances, furniture, and anything else not damaged by the fire and efforts to put it out.
Quote from: thelakelander on February 09, 2024, 08:19:57 AM
QuoteThe developer of the Rise Doro apartment building is "very committed" to rebuilding the structure after it was heavily damaged by fire but is evaluating whether to redesign the project, said the chief executive of the Downtown Investment Authority.
DIA CEO Lori Boyer said she and her staff had met with developer Rise: A Real Estate Company and learned that it was examining whether to rebuild on the site using concrete and steel as opposed to wood framing.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2024/feb/09/dia-ceo-rise-considering-redesign-for-doro-apartment-rebuild/
I will take this as a tacit admission the original design wasn't cutting the mustard. Hope any new approach is a substantial upgrade.
Developers should learn to "road test" their designs with the Jaxson's readers. Might make things better for everyone. 8)
The series of events here is truly amazing. So, after 8 of 247 leases were executed, they now feel confident to build at a much more expensive rate? Oh my... I love it. As a greedy developer, you really have to tip your hat here. They will go back to the DIA, ask for a TON more in incentives. Of course we, the people of Jacksonville, surely don't want another Berkman II plaza there for a decade. So, calling it now. The next incentive package will turn heads, and they will cite other packages & market conditions as their reasoning. Amazing & jealous that others get away with this stuff.
For those who care, the idea of them using another building material is very unlikely, unless a parking agreement is made with COJ. 284-spaces in their garage means they really can't increase the unit count. The rooms were already on the smaller side, so going up another floor here makes no sense cost wise. North Florida has huge subcontractor issues with block, so the real price gap is much higher in our local market than in Tampa or Atlanta for example. It kills a ton of these types of conversations early on.
^ Maybe they are planning LESS units offsetting the cost of higher level materials. If they had a substantial financial cushion for vacancy rates, they might be able to spend roughly the same amount of dollars for fewer units built larger and with better materials. Lower revenue per sq. ft. might then be offset by better occupancy rates creating the same (or maybe even better) revenue to cost ratio as originally budgeted.
Fewer units might also free up some parking spaces they can selectively rent out for events around the sports complex creating an additional revenue stream. Maybe even sell the spaces using a time share model.
Typically with 4-story or 5-story parking garage builds, you need about $2.50 psf to make a deal happen. Maybe a little higher given how expensive parking garages have become. When you build with block, or steel, that psf number goes up even more. Another $0.10 psf at the absolute minimum. Larger units = much worse return 99% of the time. Exceptions apply.
When we are talking about the economic health of a deal, it is always more economical to build more units, if all other expenses remain constant. That's because these deals have around 20-30% soft costs, and the land itself which is really divided by the total units as an "expense" to build. This is kinda a perfect situation for that, given that the parking is a non-factor for a re-build. In any case, you would NEED more units to offset the premium building material.
For example, if this projects land & soft costs are $15M of the $60M project, then at 200 units, your average there is $75k per unit. At 300 units, the average is $50k per unit. That delta is extremely significant on these projects. 25k per unit could "make up" the difference in the cost of premium framing. However, they are limited on their unit count by COJ code. UNLESS, they get a parking agreement somehow with COJ figured out. Then this becomes much more possible & likely.
JD, your analysis makes sense, of course. I was just speculating that maybe they had an oversized financial cushion (possibly due to the City incentives originally promised or very conservative projections) and/or the economics are skewed by any insurance settlement they expect to get. Offsets would be increases in costs over time to build again and/or for better materials.
They may also have an updated and improved view of the rental market for this project given how far along they were in the leasing process. This experience may dictate a new approach to what they perceive the market wants to see.
That's very true Jax. I think the market will take it better when it's rebuilt. And those incentives will be nice! Lol
I think they'd be doing everyone a favor if they redesigned that thing. It was not complementary to the surrounding structures at all. Total eyesore.
Haven't been following this one closely aside from just being sad for all involved and grateful no one was hurt. If you haven't driven by it since the fire, pictures don't do the scene justice.
Just noting how odd it is that the DIA would go to the press with that comment about RISE considering rebuilding with more durable materials. Fair or not, it almost implies that the original design was a contributing factor to where we are today. Feels like bad optics, and something that should come later down the road from RISE themselves once the investigation clears and insurance is settled.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on December 02, 2023, 12:38:19 AM
This looks to be one ugly building. On par with prison designs. Great views of the parking garage. I am still not sure who wants to pay up for living in this spot but adding the ugliness of this complex isn't going to help. Maybe this cheap design will yield cheap rents to get tenants.
This is going to be a real blight on Khan's hopes for the area. A $2 billion stadium and a Four Season's hotel living side by side with this garbage?
Just another gross example of this City's lack of aesthetic standards and willingness to let any project move forward just for the sake of appeasing developers. In the long run, they just infect a whole area with low class outcomes and future development will be reduced in the name of today's development.
https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/rise-doro-construction-photos/
(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Rise-Doro---November-2023/i-8WrnbWB/0/637cf70c/L/20231122_161329-L.jpg)
(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Rise-Doro---November-2023/i-H7xHF2r/0/449ebc4a/L/20231122_161425-L.jpg)
(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Rise-Doro---November-2023/i-sPH4kHm/0/7c5418bf/L/20231122_164039-L.jpg)
(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Rise-Doro---November-2023/i-CSVnLLn/0/a4a445ec/L/20231122_161953-L.jpg)
Fast Forward February 14, 2024
I have posted a comment to News4 Jax "Under Consideration" :
To wit:
Ugly building
Need a new Land Use/ Zone Designation: HSU Human Storage Unit
Vapid
And something about a Half Billion Dollars (+) Downtown Public Participation.
RISE expects to begin reconstruction in August. No word on if there will be a redesign to include concrete and steel or if plans will stay the same as before
QuoteRise: A Real Estate Company CEO Ryan Holmes said April 30 that he expects work to start on construction of the fire-damaged Doro apartments Downtown this summer.
"Everything is going good there. We've cleaned it up and we are looking to move forward," Holmes said.
He said Rise met with the city last Thursday.
"(We're) trying to put all the pieces together to start construction back in August," he said.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2024/apr/30/rise-plans-to-start-construction-on-fire-damaged-doro-apartments-downtown-this-summer/
I'd be surprised if the construction type is changing. That would be a completely different project and would take some time to redesign and permit.
RISE will now include 85 workforce housing units when they rebuild the Doro.
Sounds like new incentives will include $3 million as a workforce housing grant, $1 million as an emergency demolition grant, and an increase in the REV grant from 65% over 15 years to 75% over 20 years.
https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2024/06/07/doro-reconstruction-capital-stack.html
I can't read their articles but I assume they are rebuilding the same design?
Quote from: thelakelander on June 07, 2024, 09:38:23 PM
I can't read their articles but I assume they are rebuilding the same design?
The article says this
Quote
New incentives would need to be approved by the DIA board and then City Council prior to reconstruction.
No mention of a design review, so they probably are going to use the same design. Although, the article was very "financy" so maybe the writer (Emma Behrmann) just focuses on finance issues, and doesn't care about design.