Quote(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/LaVilla-Dailys-Gas/i-C6MVFhG/0/71694abb/L/FCE_Presentation_Page_3-L.jpg)
A new plan for a three story Daily's gas station and Bold City Brewery craft brewery and restaurant has been developed. This version shifts the building to the intersection of Bay and Broad streets, the southern gateway to the historic LaVilla neighborhood. The project will be considered for final approval at the July 27th Downtown Development Review Board (DDRB) meeting. Take a look at the before and after and let us know what you think!
Read More: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/a-new-look-for-proposed-lavilla-dailys-gas-station/
Still seems like a waste of an urban block, but this is better than the previous version.
Agree with Marcus that is better than before but not ideal for Downtown.
If the brewery (or convenience store) is counting on Downtown workers walking to it, I don't see much encouragement for that. Walking across the Broad Street entry that faces Downtown's core where most patrons might be walking from is hardly pedestrian friendly. What could be more risky than crossing a gas station entrance from a busy street with cars zipping down it and making sharp, last minute turns into the entry? At a minimum, this entrance should be removed. They have 3 other accessible entries and that should be plenty. Many stations around town have only two and a few, only one.
Further, if Broad Street is effectively an entry point for Downtown off the Acosta Bridge, removing this entrance would enhance the first impression aesthetic for Downtown.
I agree with jaxlongtimer that they should remove the Broad Street driveway. Northbound traffic can access the site by making a left onto Bay Street, To resume going northbound via the Forsyth Street driveway, then left on Broad, might be tricky when traffic is backed up at the traffic signal on Forsyth at Broad. Maybe moving the Forsyth driveway a few feet west (closer to Jefferson) could make this movement easier and safer.
The claim is that the Broad Street driveway is needed for their fuel trucks. However, there are other ways to address that.
I'd rather see the brewery taken off the top of the gas station and placed at the intersection of Broad and Forsyth or the building shifted to that corner. Forsyth is a gateway into downtown and a major neighborhood street. Most people arriving on foot, would also be coming from Broad and Forsyth intersection. That corner needs an urban street edge and pedestrian scale interaction. There should be outdoor seating and dining there. Those are my thoughts but they should sit down with the LaVilla community and work to accommodate their concerns. I think there's a viable solution that improves the plan and project more if they work together. It can't be just a DIA staff and development team decision making process. Those with direct understanding and LaVilla cultural heritage ties should also be at the decision making table.
QuoteThe major change that came out of that conversation: relocating the building from the center of the block to the corner of Bay Street and Broad Street.
"This is a significant improvement as it lends a more urban character, and offers a gateway, to this intersection and the LaVilla district," DDRB staff said in their review of the application.
Even with the changes, the project would need to be approved for deviations from the LaVilla zoning overlay, which is designed to force developers to build more urban-type projects.
The entrance to the building would face the fuel pumps, parallel to Jefferson Street, with parking around the interior edges of the structure. Facing inward requires a deviation from city code, which calls for buildings to face the public street — a deviation staff supports because of the "inherent function" of the filling stations.
The north side of the building, which faces Forsyth Street, would be treated as the back of the building, with Daily's anticipating a mural on the side. "Any public art installed or created should be used to celebrate the rich history of the LaVilla neighborhood," staff said in their comments.
Other deviations are required because the project only activates the corner of Bay and Broad and not the other three intersections and because it has more parking than the city wants to see in the area.
Getting those deviations is necessary for the project to move forward, the developer said.
"The restaurant/brewery operations, convenience store amenities, fueling station benefits and the circulation of traffic, parking, landscaping and other performance standards contemplated for this mixed-use plan coupled with the circumstances surrounding the site mandate relief from the rigid one-size-fits-all design standards of the overlay," the application said. "To comply with the strict regulations would render the project elements nonfunctional and inoperable."
Daily's has said the project will help bring people downtown, with Bold City, Jacksonville's oldest craft brewery, already having agreed to lease the second floor of the building and the rooftop event space.
Having a place to gather will be an asset to the neighborhood, Daily's CEO Aubrey Edge said.
"Downtown is still struggling. Not everyone has come back to work," Edge said previously. "We still believe the vision of downtown should exist and will persist."
The DDRB board will vote on the proposal July 27.
https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2023/07/20/lavilla-dailys-changes.html
What is the point of DDRB and their staff if all they do is recommend approval for projects inconsistent with our Downtown overlay? If a developer wants to build a gas station downtown, the pressure should be on the developer to conform to all of the proper zoning and building requirements necessary to build Downtown and propose a project worthy of approval. We should not be providing deviations to make it easier when there's a million properties across the city that can fit a gas station rather than in the heart of LaVilla. Not to mention Gate, Shell, 7-11, and Daily's already operate gas stations within the Downtown overlay zone. Do we really need more?
Allowing the building to face inwards creates a wall of dead space along Broad street effectively prohibiting that block from ever being activated for the foreseeable future. A mural on the side of the building facing the parking lot is not a reasonable accommodation for that. Not to mention how the Jefferson, Bay, and Forsyth street sides of this project are treated. It's frustrating how because they are including Bold City in their plans, they act as if they are doing a service to the neighborhood and should be granted design concessions due to that fact. We shouldn't allow development for the sake of development.
While this development sits alone right now, if the expectation is that LaVilla is to once again become a vibrant, cohesive, and pedestrian friendly neighborhood, it's vital that we get these projects right in the beginning so they fit in as the neighborhood grows around them or they will become inconsistent eyesores in the future. A good example is the Lofts at Monroe where we allowed a surface lot on the corner of Lee and Adams with a bike storage facility to "screen" it in and now with Lift Ev'ry Voice and Sing Park and Johnson Commons going in on the opposite corner, the suburban development style and lack of urban street edge is a glaring eyesore now and creates a hole in the neighborhood. We don't have to replicate that with a gas station on such a prominent corner.
^^All good points. The Daily's development is the one development happening right now that I am opposed to, but I hate to raise my voice too much because I don't want to be called out for being hypocritical since I rail against the activist groups a lot on here. Everything about it from the demolition of the buildings, the delay, their plans, etc are kind of just a slap in the face and that is one company/real estate model (convenience store) that can afford to do better in an environment like this.
I will say, having a gas station there will be handy, I'm not going to lie. But we've all survived without one thus far and so it's not absolutely imperative. If you're going to build one, do it absolutely right.
The point about Lofts at Monroe is well taken by me! But Vestcor is one of those "golden child" developers in this town and they can get away with quite a lot. There are solid political connections with First Coast Energy as well.
Quote from: simms3 on July 21, 2023, 12:55:37 PM
^^All good points. The Daily's development is the one development happening right now that I am opposed to, but I hate to raise my voice too much because I don't want to be called out for being hypocritical since I rail against the activist groups a lot on here. Everything about it from the demolition of the buildings, the delay, their plans, etc are kind of just a slap in the face and that is one company/real estate model (convenience store) that can afford to do better in an environment like this.
I will say, having a gas station there will be handy, I'm not going to lie. But we've all survived without one thus far and so it's not absolutely imperative. If you're going to build one, do it absolutely right.
The point about Lofts at Monroe is well taken by me! But Vestcor is one of those "golden child" developers in this town and they can get away with quite a lot. There are solid political connections with First Coast Energy as well.
It's a bad design, but this small concession never would have happened without public pushback. That's the most encouraging part of all this.
This one was deferred today for a month. The hope is that the design can be improved some more.
Can we get the driveway cuts down lol
Wow - JDR article on that
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2023/jul/27/mayor-council-member-peluso-ask-for-pause-on-proposed-lavilla-dailys/
Good to know that DDRB won't just be able to rubber stamp a poor site plan.
^Definitely a result of a change in political leadership. If not for that, this project's original suburban site plan would have been pushed through months ago, similar to Gate's Brooklyn gas station a few years ago. When this is all said and done, I believe it will be a win for Daily's, the DIA, DDRB, the LaVilla community and downtown as a whole.
I just don't see how a gas station makes sense here. Dedicating an entire block to something that shouldn't even exist in a walkable environment?
Build the convenience store and restaurant, keep the rest of the block open for future development.
Quote from: iMarvin on July 28, 2023, 01:56:18 PM
I just don't see how a gas station makes sense here. Dedicating an entire block to something that shouldn't even exist in a walkable environment?
Build the convenience store and restaurant, keep the rest of the block open for future development.
That would seem to fit in with the existing LaVilla overlay which allows gas stations by exception if a part of a mixed use development
This thing was cooked up a couple of years ago when Brian Hughes was the head of DIA. It was purposely included in the zoning update to allow a mixed-use gas station with 16 pumps.....specifically in LaVilla.
Quote from: thelakelander on July 28, 2023, 02:47:03 PM
This thing was cooked up a couple of years ago when Brian Hughes was the head of DIA. It was purposely included in the zoning update to allow a mixed-use gas station with 16 pumps.....specifically in LaVilla.
Need to check and see if Daily's made donations to Curry's campaigns. Might be a connection if so 8). That's the "establishment" way of doing things that Daniel Davis would have perpetuated and why Jax isn't further along compared to its rivals.
I'm out of town but I hear that Hughes came to yesterday's meeting in support of the Daily's team. When the team found out that the agenda item would be deferred, many of them left.
After being deferred for a month, the Daily's is on the agenda for final approval. DDRB staff is recommending approval even though the site plan has not changed at all
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2023/aug/18/lavilla-dailys-on-ddrb-agenda-for-final-approval/
According to the DIA staff, they claim that the Daily's team is still evaluating the changes that were provided to them after the deferral. It will be interesting to see if they do anything or try to push through the current plan.
Quote from: thelakelander on August 18, 2023, 12:23:41 PM
According to the DIA staff, they claim that the Daily's team is still evaluating the changes that were provided to them after the deferral. It will be interesting to see if they do anything or try to push through the current plan.
Are those changes publicly accessible?
I don't understand the parking deviation. The 7-Eleven on Main St. is successful with minimal onsite parking. Removing the unnecessary spots from the Daily's plan would give enough space to extend the building along the full-length of Broad or Bay, which would allow a decreased deviation for street frontage.
Also, building gas stations in an urban environment isn't a unique thing. I'm amazed the developer submitted the original design as though it was appropriate.
I will get it uploaded this weekend, along with a rendering.
Basically, the recommendation is to shift the building closer to Bay and Broad Streets, to (1) create a second retail building pad and (2) activate the full block of Broad Street. So going from this:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Alternative-LaVilla-Dailys-Plan/i-4SP6G8K/0/beaabf68/X2/1%20-%20Current%20Dailys%20Rendering-X2.jpg)
To this:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Alternative-LaVilla-Dailys-Plan/i-tnp2qdF/0/56466c71/X2/1%20-%20Community%20Dailys%20Rendering-X2.jpg)
Broad is seen as the primary north-south street, while Jefferson is viewed as the secondary street. Through preserving what's left and strictly calling for pedestrian scale infill new development along Broad, it is envisioned that a Jax version of Columbus' High Street (through Short North and pictured below) can be achieved as opposed to LaVilla becoming an autocentric extension of Brooklyn's Riverside Avenue.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Columbus---July-2023/i-wmpprzb/0/fc029c70/X2/20230707_144024-X2.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Columbus---July-2023/i-MR24ht5/0/10018bd8/X2/20230707_155555-X2.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Columbus---July-2023/i-rQKxD8Z/0/f7c03ff5/X2/20230707_154841-X2.jpg)
I was intending on speaking against this development at the upcoming board meeting as a resident of downtown (Brooklyn). If the changes you mention are occurring, then I'd be more forgivable on the deviations they're granted.
I'm of the opinion that almost any development is good development with the amount of empty lots in downtown, but the developer has to make an effort to fit within the context. I'm not expecting any miracles here, like a multistory-multiuse development with a gas station on the 1st floor.
I agree. While in a perfect world, I'd love to not have a gas station on this site, if they push for the newer site plan with the additional retail then I do believe it would be an overall net positive for this block
This project is really one of the more depressing ones as of recent. The fact that the developer team is local too is what is the icing on the cake for me. A 1+ acre DT site, is going to be a spread out gas station.. not a compact urban station, but rather a massive spread out gas station that rivals those in St Johns county (with some lovely surface parking). And, they want curb cuts at every street. The whole thing is just sad. Hard to imagine any other gas station corporation, other than GATE, being able to bully something like this through.
^I think the JTA project across the street is worse but it (Daily's) is an example of the struggle we face in building a vibrant downtown.
This stuff (urban site planning and downtown revitalization) isn't rocket science. It's actually pretty easy with that becomes the primary focus. Unfortunately, we've set a precedent where its a struggle just to get the basics right.
While I'd expect this with some of the development teams (most know better, but just do what their client tells them to or they get fired), the failure in the past has been on the public end, as we've helped facilitate poor urban development practices, just for the sake of getting something done and/or political pressures (sometimes for very petty reasons). I'm really hopeful that the recent council and mayoral administration changes will ultimately result in better standards from COJ to guide proper development.
Quote from: thelakelander on August 20, 2023, 11:53:29 AM
^I think the JTA project across the street is worse but it (Daily's) is an example of the struggle we face in building a vibrant downtown.
This stuff (urban site planning and downtown revitalization) isn't rocket science. It's actually pretty easy with that becomes the primary focus. Unfortunately, we've set a precedent where its a struggle just to get the basics right.
While I'd expect this with some of the development teams (most know better, but just do what their client tells them to or they get fired), the failure in the past has been on the public end, as we've helped facilitate poor urban development practices, just for the sake of getting something done and/or political pressures (sometimes for very petty reasons). I'm really hopeful that the recent council and mayoral administration changes will ultimately result in better standards from COJ to guide proper development.
It's objectively hilarious that JTA, the organization tasked with encouraging and planning TOD, is building a surface lot and shack less than a block away from a Skyway and 'BRT' station.
It just shows that much of that TOD talk is hot air. They aren't experts at TOD.
When it's phrased like that, damn lol.. I 100% agree tho, I'm hopeful the JTA project won't happen. Maybe I'll be wrong on that one. This one seems for sure happening this way. The combo of the two is a real one two.
What is wrong with the resubmitted rendering? Daily's in the 4th dimension?
The "resubmitted(?)" rendering above, with the outdoor seating and the second building is mine.
Here is the actual Daily's plan that was deferred a few weeks back at the request of Councilman Peluso.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Alternative-LaVilla-Dailys-Plan/i-xQD2RB4/0/6ed2550c/X2/2%20-%20Current%20Dailys%20Site%20Plan-X2.jpg)
The main problems are (1) its suburban, (2) includes a surface parking lot on a prominent corner (Broad and Forsyth) and (3) has no pedestrian interaction on the site, outside of the two entry doors into the gas station convenience store.
Quote from: WAJAS on August 20, 2023, 04:17:11 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on August 20, 2023, 11:53:29 AM
^I think the JTA project across the street is worse but it (Daily's) is an example of the struggle we face in building a vibrant downtown.
This stuff (urban site planning and downtown revitalization) isn't rocket science. It's actually pretty easy with that becomes the primary focus. Unfortunately, we've set a precedent where its a struggle just to get the basics right.
While I'd expect this with some of the development teams (most know better, but just do what their client tells them to or they get fired), the failure in the past has been on the public end, as we've helped facilitate poor urban development practices, just for the sake of getting something done and/or political pressures (sometimes for very petty reasons). I'm really hopeful that the recent council and mayoral administration changes will ultimately result in better standards from COJ to guide proper development.
It's objectively hilarious that JTA, the organization tasked with encouraging and planning TOD, is building a surface lot and shack less than a block away from a Skyway and 'BRT' station.
Just for context, I thought I'd pull the U2C TOD Study (https://online.flippingbook.com/view/657074596/) pages on Jefferson Station:
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/847298939618590760/1142985522436915230/Screenshot_2023-08-20_at_8.52.29_PM.png)
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/847298939618590760/1142985522923442246/Screenshot_2023-08-20_at_8.52.47_PM.png)
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/847298939618590760/1142985523292536862/Screenshot_2023-08-20_at_8.52.57_PM.png)
(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/847298939618590760/1142985523716178041/Screenshot_2023-08-20_at_8.53.08_PM.png)
I've never understood why locally, we look at privately owned land as a TOD "weakness or challenge." We need JTA to run reliable transit, not play a leading role in real estate development. We can put the policies in place, but we should let the experts develop real estate and real TOD.
Quote from: thelakelander on August 20, 2023, 09:32:11 PM
I've never understood why locally, we look at privately owned land as a TOD "weakness or challenge." We need JTA to run reliable transit, not play a leading role in real estate development. We can put the policies in place, but we should let the experts develop real estate and real TOD.
In theory, it'd help provide long-term transit funding. Agencies across the country are facing serious shortfalls as federal COVID funding runs out and ridership hasn't completely returned, and in a number of cases are requiring state and local governments to seriously step up their funding or allow service reductions and fare increases.
TOD can contribute riders but more importantly provide operational funding through ground lease agreements or funding districts or Payments In Lieu Of Taxes (PILOTs). Transit agencies around the world (famously in Asia) use development they own to provide funding for service. I assume JTA wants some of that. I don't think it's a bad idea in theory, but so far they have three studies, a charter school, and an apartment building with more parking than units to show for it. A lot of these ideas would probably make more progress sooner with administrative rezonings that simply permit density and eliminate parking near transit stations. The underutilized parcels are literally determinable from space, so making it easy for developers to build good things in good places should at least provide the riders.
JTA can certainly help open the door to real estate development around its stations (encourage those rezonings and get out of the way), but more importantly (like the agencies in Asia) needs to provide those stations with fast, useful transit that people can rely on. No longer wasting time and money with the U2C and getting the Flyer back down to 10-15 minute service would do a lot of that work.
^They can start with the existing Skyway stations in downtown. Unfortunately, the Skyway is pretty filthy and unreliable these days.
Quote from: thelakelander on August 20, 2023, 11:10:49 PM
^They can start with the existing Skyway stations in downtown. Unfortunately, the Skyway is pretty filthy and unreliable these days.
A simple Skyway Modernization Program would be very different from the "innovation program" they've embarked on with the U2C, that's for sure. The city just needs the courage to say what it wants.