Quote(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Four-Seasons-Hotel-and-Residences/i-kBQLdXN/0/efa8975f/L/20230511_DDRB_Four%20Seasons_Page_08-L.jpg)
Plans for the Four Seasons Hotel & Residences near TIAA Bank Field are on their way to be modified. Iguana Investments Florida LLC seeks a Request for Modification to Final Approval of Downtown Development Review Board (DDRB) Application 2021-013 for the Shipyards Mixed-Use Development. Take a look and let us know what you think!
Read More: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/iguana-requests-changes-to-proposed-shipyards-project/
Lots of VE on that office building. Looks pretty blase now, with no effort to address the street front along Bay St and no effort to conceal the mechanical on the roof (won't look good from the Four Seasons).
With taxpayers footing a lot of the bill, I don't think VE of this level should be allowed.
I'm not a fan of shifting the office building further back from Bay Street. The whole site has a lot of curb cuts which I don't get.
The hotel site is whatever - I wish it was a more urban Four Seasons like in Charlotte for example, but clearly that wasn't the goal here.
I'm glad for the hotel, but this site plan isn't impressive to me from an urban perspective.
Quote from: simms3 on May 11, 2023, 10:34:00 AM
Lots of VE on that office building. Looks pretty blase now, with no effort to address the street front along Bay St and no effort to conceal the mechanical on the roof (won't look good from the Four Seasons).
With taxpayers footing a lot of the bill, I don't think VE of this level should be allowed.
Per the RDA with the city, the Bay street frontage is required to be retail. Looks like the site is required to be elevated about 7-9 feet above street level and JTA is running the AV lane between the building and Bay street, so that's going to hinder street level connectivity. From these renderings I can't tell that the mechanical screening has been eliminated, so please share the architectural drawings that you used to make that determination.
First, since I don't speak 'architect' what does "MEP" mean on all the layout drawings on the second page, and F&B on the first page? I am guessing "BOH" means "Back of House."
Second, a major point of the redesign is to move the Ballroom, yet it doesn't show up on the Revised Master Plan on the first page.
I agree with Simms that the office building, which could be anywhere in Southpoint, fits into Southpoint even better now. Generic Office Building 3B.
I don't have a problem with the ballroom relocation, it gives users a better view of the river and lawn, instead of a driveway.
I wish (hope) something can be done about the four (4) separate entry points, plus the park entry just a few feet from the main entrance to the Four Seasons.
No strong reaction to the changes with the hotel.
Not a fan at all of the balcony removal from the office building.
That feature at least gave some life to the building from Bay Street.
Quote from: Charles Hunter on May 11, 2023, 12:02:09 PM
First, since I don't speak 'architect' what does "MEP" mean on all the layout drawings on the second page, and F&B on the first page? I am guessing "BOH" means "Back of House."
MEP = Mechanical, Engineering and Plumbing
F&B = Food & Beverage
Quote from: Steve on May 11, 2023, 11:51:28 AMI'm glad for the hotel, but this site plan isn't impressive to me from an urban perspective.
It's an isolated resort that can one day be a part of a larger chain of complementary uses along the riverwalk. Sort of like the Manchester Grand Hyatt and Marriott Marquis along the San Diego waterfront. Traditional urbanism along Bay/Gator Bowl Boulevard went out the door as soon as we added expressway ramps to A. Philip Boulevard. So with the building placement on this one, I'm of the "whatever" opinion. From a traffic circulation standpoint, some attempt should be made to consolidate the number of curb cuts on Bay Street.
Quote from: simms3 on May 11, 2023, 10:34:00 AM
Lots of VE on that office building. Looks pretty blase now, with no effort to address the street front along Bay St and no effort to conceal the mechanical on the roof (won't look good from the Four Seasons).
With taxpayers footing a lot of the bill, I don't think VE of this level should be allowed.
Yeah the VE here is pretty blatant.. and to do it after their increased incentive package is just icing on the cake.
Quote from: simms3 on May 11, 2023, 10:34:00 AM
Lots of VE on that office building. Looks pretty blase now, with no effort to address the street front along Bay St and no effort to conceal the mechanical on the roof (won't look good from the Four Seasons).
With taxpayers footing a lot of the bill, I don't think VE of this level should be allowed.
It is worth pointing out that - for the office portion of the project - taxpayer involvement is minimal.
The Jags paid the city $3.2 million for the parcel that the office building sits on, which is more than we can say for a lot of riverfront development these days - and the only real incentive specifically tied to office is a REV grant capped at $8 million over 20 years.
Jags are going to permanently occupy the majority of the building (you could almost consider the office portion part of the larger stadium project), and there's 10,000 square feet of retail space built in.
I don't think we're getting a bum deal on it, I just wish it interfaced better with the street.
Who'd have thought balconies on an office building would cause such a ruckus.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on May 11, 2023, 03:01:59 PM
Who'd have thought balconies on an office building would cause such a ruckus.
(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Four-Seasons-Hotel-and-Residences/i-pwxH8RD/0/c36be719/L/20230511_DDRB_Four%20Seasons_Page_11-L.jpg)
IT'S LIKE MARDI GRAS UP THERE.
IF YOU EXPOSE YOURSELF FROM BAY STREET, MARK LAMPING AND TONY KHAN WILL THROW BEADS.
This one was approved by the DDRB today.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on May 11, 2023, 03:01:59 PM
Who'd have thought balconies on an office building would cause such a ruckus.
Check the restaurant space too. Not really best practices to ask for more $$ based on a certain plan to then VE it a few months later. That's a several million dollar VE I would bet.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on May 11, 2023, 02:44:44 PM
Quote from: simms3 on May 11, 2023, 10:34:00 AM
Lots of VE on that office building. Looks pretty blase now, with no effort to address the street front along Bay St and no effort to conceal the mechanical on the roof (won't look good from the Four Seasons).
With taxpayers footing a lot of the bill, I don't think VE of this level should be allowed.
It is worth pointing out that - for the office portion of the project - taxpayer involvement is minimal.
The Jags paid the city $3.2 million for the parcel that the office building sits on, which is more than we can say for a lot of riverfront development these days - and the only real incentive specifically tied to office is a REV grant capped at $8 million over 20 years.
Jags are going to permanently occupy the majority of the building (you could almost consider the office portion part of the larger stadium project), and there's 10,000 square feet of retail space built in.
I don't think we're getting a bum deal on it, I just wish it interfaced better with the street.
I do care less about the balcony VE knowing that truthfully.
Quote from: Jax_Developer on May 11, 2023, 04:32:47 PM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on May 11, 2023, 03:01:59 PM
Who'd have thought balconies on an office building would cause such a ruckus.
Check the restaurant space too. Not really best practices to ask for more $$ based on a certain plan to then VE it a few months later. That's a several million dollar VE I would bet.
What do you mean? What about the restaurant space?
What the he** now?
Quote from: Captain Zissou on May 11, 2023, 04:53:55 PM
Quote from: Jax_Developer on May 11, 2023, 04:32:47 PM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on May 11, 2023, 03:01:59 PM
Who'd have thought balconies on an office building would cause such a ruckus.
Check the restaurant space too. Not really best practices to ask for more $$ based on a certain plan to then VE it a few months later. That's a several million dollar VE I would bet.
What do you mean? What about the restaurant space?
It is now a shiny box. Not that it matters a ton, but that curved piece was clearly a custom piece and certainly came in higher than they were expecting it to cost. So now we have a box with storefront lol. I swear.. if I could obtain the land, I'd go DT.. the incentives are a racket.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on May 11, 2023, 12:01:19 PM
Quote from: simms3 on May 11, 2023, 10:34:00 AM
Lots of VE on that office building. Looks pretty blase now, with no effort to address the street front along Bay St and no effort to conceal the mechanical on the roof (won't look good from the Four Seasons).
With taxpayers footing a lot of the bill, I don't think VE of this level should be allowed.
From these renderings I can't tell that the mechanical screening has been eliminated, so please share the architectural drawings that you used to make that determination.
Page 186 of the DDRB packet shows "Street view to hotel and residential arrival", but prominently features the office building. It's essentially Bay St looking towards Downtown. Maybe the former rendering simply didn't render rooftop mechanical "enough" and they are correcting that with the latest rendering, but it appears to have gone from minimal (can hardly see it from ground level) to massive.
The near elimination of the design elements along the fenestration don't help.
Sounds like some of the changes to the hotel were at the request of Four Seasons.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2023/may/16/attorney-for-iguana-says-four-seasons-is-signed-up-for-jacksonville-hotel-project/
A real vote of confidence in demand for this hotel project which I am told is already on the smaller end for a Four Seasons:
QuoteThere also appears to be a slight drop in the number of hotel rooms and for-sale residences.
Trimmer said the hotel would have 170 rooms with 24 residences. Iguana said in January it expected 176 hotel rooms with 25 luxury condominiums.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on May 16, 2023, 11:20:52 PM
A real vote of confidence in demand for this hotel project which I am told is already on the smaller end for a Four Seasons:
QuoteThere also appears to be a slight drop in the number of hotel rooms and for-sale residences.
Trimmer said the hotel would have 170 rooms with 24 residences. Iguana said in January it expected 176 hotel rooms with 25 luxury condominiums.
It's because there are more suites than the previous iteration. Same square footage taken up by fewer, larger rooms.
I'll say this - their attorney on the record said Four Seasons is on board. That's something, as she wouldn't say that in that setting if they weren't.
I don't think a net -6 in hotels and -1 in residences is worth caring about. Those things happen all the time.
And look - Four Seasons hotels aren't like 1,000 room Big Box convention hotels. They tend to be smaller. Atlanta has 244, Nashville has 235, Minneapolis has 222, St. Louis has 200, and Santa Fe has 65 (not a typo)
Source: https://press.fourseasons.com/hotel-press-kits/
I mean of course it's going to be smaller. We're a mid-sized city with comparatively no downtown tourism and a smaller corporate base.
I'm honestly shocked they're doing this at all., but hey, good for them and us. Just wish the site plan was better.
At this point, I'm fine with this project. Let's get the show on the road and move on to getting additional projects off the ground.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 17, 2023, 11:18:47 AM
At this point, I'm fine with this project. Let's get the show on the road and move on to getting additional projects off the ground.
Agreed, too late to nitpick. Just want to see something. I hope the final product looks like what the latest renderings show and we don't go through any VE , but at this point I'd take something over nothing.