Metro Jacksonville

Jacksonville by Neighborhood => Urban Neighborhoods => Saint Nicholas => Topic started by: thelakelander on March 01, 2023, 01:03:28 PM

Title: River South: Another project for the Southbank?
Post by: thelakelander on March 01, 2023, 01:03:28 PM
Quote(https://photos.moderncities.com/photos/i-ZXBD9Br/0/L/i-ZXBD9Br-L.jpg)

Under consideration by Capstone Companies, River South could be a 300-unit multifamily project proposed for a 4.06-acre site adjacent to a flood prone creek and neighborhood near Downtown Jacksonville's Southbank.

Read More: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/river-south-another-project-for-the-southbank/
Title: Re: River South: Another project for the Southbank?
Post by: marcuscnelson on March 01, 2023, 01:29:25 PM
Seems like a rather odd project. The way it's being presented is strange, almost premature. Also somewhat concerning that it's being proposed in an area that could be undergoing managed retreat. According to this picture, the property (next to the T-shaped building) is pretty squarely in the flood zone:

(https://photos.moderncities.com/Environment/South-Shores-Flooding/i-rQS9bPJ/0/49c4abbe/L/South%20Shores_Page_1-L.jpg)

I don't see why something like this wouldn't just be part of RiversEdge instead of on this site, especially if one would need to build an access road to reach it anyway, which would very likely be at risk of flooding.
Title: Re: River South: Another project for the Southbank?
Post by: Jagsdrew on March 01, 2023, 02:07:14 PM
It's odd for sure, it needs some more investment in design/aesthetics. Also, why isn't this building rotated 180 degrees so the rooftop balcony/amenities face the river and not the 14 lanes of a concrete jungle?

Sidenote: Why can't this be built on the corner of Hendricks and Prudential in place of the proposed (AWFUL) storage facility?
Title: Re: River South: Another project for the Southbank?
Post by: jcjohnpaint on March 01, 2023, 02:37:40 PM
Thank god it is sitting on the parking structure. Totally going to be underwater in a hurricane. The design looks terrible.
Title: Re: River South: Another project for the Southbank?
Post by: Jax_Developer on March 01, 2023, 07:33:24 PM
I believe the offering is 100% conceptual. Likely will change significantly when they go for site approval.

Also in regards to the flood zone aspect, that likely won't affect the property with it being 300-ish units. The foundation, pier and mitigation cost will be ate up really quick. Technically speaking most of the Riverfront has similar soils to this site so it really shouldn't make this different. The environmental aspect is more of a question to me. The area is just super odd with half of the parcels being bought out while others stay.. having LDR right there is really weird.
Title: Re: River South: Another project for the Southbank?
Post by: thelakelander on March 01, 2023, 08:37:05 PM
Quote from: Jax_Developer on March 01, 2023, 07:33:24 PM
I believe the offering is 100% conceptual. Likely will change significantly when they go for site approval.

Yes, there is no design at this point. That's just a massing model as the development team does their due diligence on the site.
Title: Re: River South: Another project for the Southbank?
Post by: marcuscnelson on March 01, 2023, 10:03:20 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on March 01, 2023, 08:37:05 PM
Quote from: Jax_Developer on March 01, 2023, 07:33:24 PM
I believe the offering is 100% conceptual. Likely will change significantly when they go for site approval.

Yes, there is no design at this point. That's just a massing model as the development team does their due diligence on the site.

Right, saw that in the article, it just seems strange to have a window into what is apparently this early in the process.

Still just seems odd to know that this is sitting right in a floodplain bad enough to make managed retreat a reasonable option but still suggest building apartments on it.
Title: Re: River South: Another project for the Southbank?
Post by: thelakelander on March 01, 2023, 10:06:22 PM
^I agree. That's what really sticks out. The design or massing isn't the real story. That entire area is about as wet as it gets in the urban core.

It will be very interesting to see what happens if it proceeds past where things are today.
Title: Re: River South: Another project for the Southbank?
Post by: Jax_Developer on March 02, 2023, 10:42:52 AM
COJ &/or FEMA should commit to a complete buyout of the area. The half in half out outcome we have now doesn't help much. Either commit to allowing the wetlands to return, or eminent domain the whole area and master plan the redevelopment with significant water retention.

Having this area as it is now is a huge negative for the surrounding area and home prices.

Title: Re: River South: Another project for the Southbank?
Post by: scbennett67@gmail.com on March 03, 2023, 07:08:27 AM
You could install a thousand retention ponds but when the river rises they will all over flow.
Title: Re: River South: Another project for the Southbank?
Post by: Jax_Developer on March 03, 2023, 09:10:07 AM
There are dozens of cities with worse conditions than JAX that fair pretty well. In fact.. you can design places to flood. JAX has the triple whammy of lack of flooding infrastructure, lack of central flood planning, and a community that fears flooding. The last point likely being valid bc of the two former... nonetheless.. that land needs to have a purpose. It doesn't now. Given it's location, I would so much rather have this area be utilized and walk back wetland development elsewhere on the river. This area is CCBD... not RLD.
Title: Re: River South: Another project for the Southbank?
Post by: thelakelander on March 03, 2023, 09:45:34 AM
In reality, it should be a wetland. Nature has already decided its highest and best use.

(https://photos.moderncities.com/Environment/South-Shores-Flooding/i-rQS9bPJ/0/49c4abbe/L/South%20Shores_Page_1-L.jpg)
Title: Re: River South: Another project for the Southbank?
Post by: marcuscnelson on March 03, 2023, 09:58:27 AM
Quote from: Jax_Developer on March 03, 2023, 09:10:07 AM
There are dozens of cities with worse conditions than JAX that fair pretty well. In fact.. you can design places to flood. JAX has the triple whammy of lack of flooding infrastructure, lack of central flood planning, and a community that fears flooding. The last point likely being valid bc of the two former... nonetheless.. that land needs to have a purpose. It doesn't now. Given it's location, I would so much rather have this area be utilized and walk back wetland development elsewhere on the river. This area is CCBD... not RLD.

Seems like if you can clearly articulate that this city has failed to develop the infrastructure or plan needed to mitigate flood risks, maybe it's not ideal to let that problem get worse based on the idea that a particular parcel "needs to have a purpose."

If we already might need to spend millions to mitigate our past mistakes in permitting development in flood zones, the last thing we should want to do is restart that kind of decision-making just because it's near other parcels of land. Nature doesn't care about zoning.
Title: Re: River South: Another project for the Southbank?
Post by: Jax_Developer on March 03, 2023, 10:51:02 AM
Well aware it's a flood zone. So is all of Miami. Both are missing my point, either actually do the buyout instead of this half-effort to do wetland restoration, or allow for it to be developed.. with flooding.. happens ALL the time ALL over the world.

Doesn't take an expert to understand how critically behind Jax is for flooding. There are several articles that speak about it better than I can.
Title: Re: River South: Another project for the Southbank?
Post by: thelakelander on March 03, 2023, 10:57:54 AM
It sounds like the developer is doing their due diligence at this point.  That likely includes getting a feel if this would even be allowed on this site. I haven't seen anything to date suggesting that COJ wants development here.
Title: Re: River South: Another project for the Southbank?
Post by: Jax_Developer on March 03, 2023, 11:19:09 AM
Right! The parcel owner is local though. Seems like a cash grab for a big pocket out of town developer to bully the approval. That's my concern. Then what..
Title: Re: River South: Another project for the Southbank?
Post by: acme54321 on March 03, 2023, 12:53:10 PM
The site they show it on is one two parcels, one owned by the Humane Society and the rest JEA.  It would be a really weird location for that kind of development in general.  I live in the adjacent neighborhood so NIMBY and all...
Title: Re: River South: Another project for the Southbank?
Post by: simms3 on March 03, 2023, 05:06:10 PM
Quote from: Jax_Developer on March 03, 2023, 09:10:07 AM
There are dozens of cities with worse conditions than JAX that fair pretty well. In fact.. you can design places to flood. JAX has the triple whammy of lack of flooding infrastructure, lack of central flood planning, and a community that fears flooding. The last point likely being valid bc of the two former... nonetheless.. that land needs to have a purpose. It doesn't now. Given it's location, I would so much rather have this area be utilized and walk back wetland development elsewhere on the river. This area is CCBD... not RLD.

I agree.
Title: Re: River South: Another project for the Southbank?
Post by: Jax_Developer on March 04, 2023, 09:41:15 AM
Did some digging.. we shall see how this goes. The parcel already possesses access through an old city ROW with Reed Ave. (It is specified as a causeway.) The ROW is also included on the parcel's legal description. Unless something has changed since 2007 for that ROW (extremely unlikely) the developer doesn't seem to have access issues. With that in mind, I really don't see how this doesn't get pushed for approval. Seems to me too that the developer 'could' even get rewarded for developing this.. Here's why:

- Very clearly was sold with unusable/contaminated soil
- Almost completely surrounded by registered Brownfield's
- Property is still within the CCBD

Between a brownfield & ccbd classification, there are grants/incentives for: planning, cleanup, REV (tax) grants, completion grants, and some smaller ones that just come to mind... With Riversedge being right there too.. and Artea.. seems impossible to stop. The contaminated soil also means the cost of replacing all the soil just got heavily discounted.. making foundations cheaper.

Also not sure which map is right or wrong, but COJ shows the parcel as having large chunks of Flood Zone X. Makes it that much harder to fight when it reaches committee if that is correct.
Title: Re: River South: Another project for the Southbank?
Post by: thelakelander on March 04, 2023, 07:41:33 PM
It's real early in the game, the site is in a well known flood prone area, there's potential opposition given COJ's approach to South Shores, and they're still looking for investors. I'm not even sure this is feasible or a good return on investment.

I think this is a case of us stumbling on material not originally intended for public consumption. I'll be interested to see if they make it out of the due diligence phase.
Title: Re: River South: Another project for the Southbank?
Post by: jaxlongtimer on March 07, 2023, 06:48:25 PM
With the Channel 4 TV tower so close, residents will be able to microwave their meals on their balconies...  ;D
Title: Re: River South: Another project for the Southbank?
Post by: Florida Power And Light on March 08, 2023, 07:44:27 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on March 04, 2023, 07:41:33 PM
It's real early in the game, the site is in a well known flood prone area, there's potential opposition given COJ's approach to South Shores, and they're still looking for investors. I'm not even sure this is feasible or a good return on investment.

I think this is a case of us stumbling on material not originally intended for public consumption. I'll be interested to see if they make it out of the due diligence phase.

Material not intended for Public Consumption is in Demand..... by the " Public"..... and Others'.
Title: Re: River South: Another project for the Southbank?
Post by: acme54321 on March 09, 2023, 09:24:35 AM
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on March 07, 2023, 06:48:25 PM
With the Channel 4 TV tower so close, residents will be able to microwave their meals on their balconies...  ;D

Lol, but that tower no longer broadcasts.
Title: Re: River South: Another project for the Southbank?
Post by: jaxlongtimer on March 09, 2023, 05:27:24 PM
Quote from: acme54321 on March 09, 2023, 09:24:35 AM
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on March 07, 2023, 06:48:25 PM
With the Channel 4 TV tower so close, residents will be able to microwave their meals on their balconies...  ;D

Lol, but that tower no longer broadcasts.

I viewed it on Google street view.  It doesn't appear to be the older 1,000+ foot tower but the one there now appears to be covered with microwave and/or satellite dishes.  I figured they are to receive signals from their remote trucks and vehicles I see around town.
Title: Re: River South: Another project for the Southbank?
Post by: acme54321 on March 09, 2023, 06:25:16 PM
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on March 09, 2023, 05:27:24 PM
Quote from: acme54321 on March 09, 2023, 09:24:35 AM
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on March 07, 2023, 06:48:25 PM
With the Channel 4 TV tower so close, residents will be able to microwave their meals on their balconies...  ;D

Lol, but that tower no longer broadcasts.

I viewed it on Google street view.  It doesn't appear to be the older 1,000+ foot tower but the one there now appears to be covered with microwave and/or satellite dishes.  I figured they are to receive signals from their remote trucks and vehicles I see around town.

Yep, now there are some smaller antennas and the skycam in on it. It's their original broadcast tower as far as I know.  They transmit from one over on Hogan road notw
Title: Re: River South: Another project for the Southbank?
Post by: Charles Hunter on March 09, 2023, 07:01:22 PM
Quote from: acme54321 on March 09, 2023, 06:25:16 PM
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on March 09, 2023, 05:27:24 PM
Quote from: acme54321 on March 09, 2023, 09:24:35 AM
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on March 07, 2023, 06:48:25 PM
With the Channel 4 TV tower so close, residents will be able to microwave their meals on their balconies...  ;D

Lol, but that tower no longer broadcasts.

I viewed it on Google street view.  It doesn't appear to be the older 1,000+ foot tower but the one there now appears to be covered with microwave and/or satellite dishes.  I figured they are to receive signals from their remote trucks and vehicles I see around town.

Yep, now there are some smaller antennas and the skycam in on it. It's their original broadcast tower as far as I know.  They transmit from one over on Hogan road notw

Pretty sure that is not the original WJXT tower. Back in the 1960s, WJXT decorated the full height of the tower with Christmas lights, and my recollection is the tower was tall and skinny - like the WTLV (ne WFGA) tower across the river.
Title: Re: River South: Another project for the Southbank?
Post by: jaxlongtimer on March 09, 2023, 07:43:50 PM
^ Yep, it was much taller (1,000 feet tall) than the current one and it was tethered by guy wires, not the triangular structure there now.  See article and pictures below that show parts of the guy wires and the thinner antenna in the background.

Found lots of old pix on the web of WJXT in their prime during the 1960's and 70's.  Was a local and national force, owned by the Washington Post.  Their investigative reporting of local corruption led to indictments and the consolidation of Jax.  Even made Nixon's enemies list after uncovering the racist background of one of his Supreme Court nominees that led to their withdrawal.  Steve Kroft from 60 Minutes also got his start with the station.  Original call letters were WMBR.

(https://res.cloudinary.com/graham-media-group/image/fetch/f_auto/q_auto/c_scale,w_900/https://arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-gmg.s3.amazonaws.com/public/F4I5AWT2Y5C6ZFA2MDL2ZBLH5I.jpg?_a=AJARNWIA)

(https://res.cloudinary.com/graham-media-group/image/fetch/f_auto/q_auto/c_scale,w_900/https://arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-gmg.s3.amazonaws.com/public/UGT7YQSQOREHDG4SLASYQX3TPQ.jpg?_a=AJARNWIA)

(https://res.cloudinary.com/graham-media-group/image/fetch/f_auto/q_auto/c_scale,w_900/https://arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-gmg.s3.amazonaws.com/public/4ZQMWX3WBRHAXKLW3K3O22U6ZU.jpg?_a=AJARNWIA)