Plans for UF's Jacksonville expansion to be announced tomorrow:
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/education/2023/02/06/uf-president-ben-sasse-and-board-chairman-join-mayor-lenny-curry/69876477007/
Only right-thinking instructors need apply.
Well, here we go.
(https://i.postimg.cc/x8844SqL/Screen-Shot-2023-02-07-at-10-17-01-AM.png)
I know the general details and location but interested in hearing what they have to say.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on February 07, 2023, 10:17:46 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/x8844SqL/Screen-Shot-2023-02-07-at-10-17-01-AM.png)
Lenny Smash!
They only have to find 50 million bucks in the next three years first!
Quote from: pierre on February 07, 2023, 11:28:59 AM
They only have to find 50 million bucks in the next three years first!
Maybe there are two Landings we can defer pulling down?
Quote from: thelakelander on February 07, 2023, 10:25:41 AM
I know the general details and location but interested in hearing what they have to say.
What's the location?
They weren't very specific.
"Next steps include UF and city of Jacksonville officials working with Jacksonville's education, business,
medical and community leaders to determine the most critical academic needs and opportunities for
the regional workforce."
Like Nate said on Twitter. They don't even know what this campus will be for.
So what I heard is we committed $50M to, "Officials working with Jacksonville's education, business,
medical and community leaders to determine the most critical academic needs and opportunities for
the regional workforce."
This could end up being cool. Right now we spent $50M on, "Something".
I have been talking with people who recruit employees to Jacksonville and Florida. They are telling me their job is so much harder since DeSantis began his anti "woke" campaign. Many people don't like his efforts to control conversations (this from the "freedom" governor!) and attack professionals in education, medicine and elsewhere. Plus, his attacks on diversity, LGBTQ's, minority interests, science, history, etc. They are in demand nationally and don't need to place themselves in an unwelcoming and overly controlling environment.
I have also heard from business recruiters that it is driving away corporate relocations and expansions to Florida. Clearly, this is and will have a negative economic impact on the City and the State.
Will be interesting to see how UF and other state educational institutions fare over the next few years given the current track Florida is on.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on February 07, 2023, 11:57:18 AM
I have been talking with people who recruit employees to Jacksonville and Florida. They are telling me their job is so much harder since DeSantis began his anti "woke" campaign. Many people don't like his efforts to control conversations (this from the "freedom" governor!) and attack professionals in education, medicine and elsewhere.
I can confirm this is an issue in a recruitment I am involved with currently. It is also an issue for a higher education conference scheduled for Florida this fall...that is considering relocating
It sounds like this announcement was to give Curry something to crow about on his way out and Sasse something to crow about on his way in, yet there is no there, there, at least not yet.
News4Jax link: https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2023/02/07/new-uf-satellite-campus-coming-to-jacksonville-to-focus-on-ai-medical-technology-sources/
I agree, so far this is like an announcement that we will have an announcement in one to three years.
Curious where the state money is.
$50 million from the city and $50 million from the private sector.
I think the South Florida campus got like $100 million from the state.
I also wonder how UNF and JU feel about this (e.g. additive vs. competitive).
I also wonder how UGA's feeling about Jax as a neutral site for Fl/Ga if this things gets built.
Possibly Main Street between downtown and Spingfield:
QuoteIn a Feb. 2 letter to the University of Florida, JEA Managing Director and CEO Jay Stowe said the utility would commit $10 million in in-kind services, including access to a trail through the Main Street Water Plant and Laboratory parcel through a purchase/lease/easement, to the project.
"It is our intent to support this project as it supports downtown revitalization, complemented with the Hogan's Creek revitalization and Emerald Trail projects," Stowe wrote.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2023/feb/07/university-of-florida-city-to-explore-campus-in-jacksonville/
Quote from: thelakelander on February 07, 2023, 03:01:23 PM
Possibly Main Street between downtown and Spingfield:
QuoteIn a Feb. 2 letter to the University of Florida, JEA Managing Director and CEO Jay Stowe said the utility would commit $10 million in in-kind services, including access to a trail through the Main Street Water Plant and Laboratory parcel through a purchase/lease/easement, to the project.
"It is our intent to support this project as it supports downtown revitalization, complemented with the Hogan's Creek revitalization and Emerald Trail projects," Stowe wrote.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2023/feb/07/university-of-florida-city-to-explore-campus-in-jacksonville/
Interesting.
Based on the above and the existing area, feels like this would have almost have to use some of FSCJ's land?
(https://snipboard.io/uXVs9j.jpg)
Quote from: Ken_FSU on February 07, 2023, 01:07:38 PM
Curious where the state money is.
$50 million from the city and $50 million from the private sector.
I think the South Florida campus got like $100 million from the state.
I also wonder how UNF and JU feel about this (e.g. additive vs. competitive).
I also wonder how UGA's feeling about Jax as a neutral site for Fl/Ga if this things gets built.
Nate Monroe joins you in your skepticism and cynicism about this project, bringing up all your questions and more. More questions than answers.
Definitely sounds rushed so Curry can take credit for it if it ever materializes. If not, it will just be a faded memory. Maybe he is going to argue only Daniel Davis is qualified to carry this ball forward. Would be interesting to see how this proposal progresses if a Democrat wins the mayoral race given that DeSantis now tightly controls every move of UF and our other educational institutions.
Definitely has political overtones given how vague the announcement is today. Keep in mind the new president of UF was the current Republican senator from Nebraska so political imports are definitely in his wheelhouse. The UF board chair is the CEO of ICI Homes, a major homebuilder/developer in the state and you know the political leanings of most builders/developers. You get the idea...
QuoteNate Monroe: Jacksonville agrees to pay UF $50 million for ... something?
COMMENTARY | Lucky is the beggar-builder who finds themselves on the other end of the bargaining table from Jacksonville Mayor Lenny Curry....
....But Tuesday's much-touted announcement of a partnership between the city and the University of Florida over ... well, something ... feels like a new low.
What we know: the city is committing $50 million to UF, possibly for a new satellite campus — with a heavy emphasis on possibly....
....Get that? "Committing to explore opportunities." That's the kind of assurance you can take to the bank, as long as the bank is City Hall....
....No details, no due diligence, no commitments. No problem....
....But the nature of the actual announcement — specifically, that it turned out to be a non-announcement — was surprising. With so few details in hand, it felt rushed, slapdash, not ready for primetime.....
....What the lack of details do broadcast, to an unmistakable level of specificity, is a total lack of respect for Jacksonville taxpayers.
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/columns/nate-monroe/2023/02/07/jacksonville-uf-and-the-amazing-disappearing-campus-nate-monroe/69881783007/
Quote from: Ken_FSU on February 07, 2023, 01:07:38 PM
Curious where the state money is.
$50 million from the city and $50 million from the private sector.
I think the South Florida campus got like $100 million from the state.
I also wonder how UNF and JU feel about this (e.g. additive vs. competitive).
I also wonder how UGA's feeling about Jax as a neutral site for Fl/Ga if this things gets built.
Re: UNF and JU, I'm definitely noticing a sense of discontent on Twitter (at least) about the city chasing UF while UNF and JU are kind of just... here.
I think part of the problem is that UF, the state's flagship school, is
just close enough that it feels attainable to get a presence here, while being the school that a number of the city's leadership (including Curry himself) comes from, while UNF and JU are not considered "big deal" schools in the same vein. In theory that should mean investing in growing those schools, but that brings you back to the question of doing that when the top school is already
right there. Awkward position to be in, and I say this as someone who went to UF.
I don't know much about Tallahassee, but I'm curious how they handle as a city hosting two state universities.
Quote from: thelakelander on February 07, 2023, 03:01:23 PM
Possibly Main Street between downtown and Spingfield:
QuoteIn a Feb. 2 letter to the University of Florida, JEA Managing Director and CEO Jay Stowe said the utility would commit $10 million in in-kind services, including access to a trail through the Main Street Water Plant and Laboratory parcel through a purchase/lease/easement, to the project.
"It is our intent to support this project as it supports downtown revitalization, complemented with the Hogan's Creek revitalization and Emerald Trail projects," Stowe wrote.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2023/feb/07/university-of-florida-city-to-explore-campus-in-jacksonville/
I'm thinking about how JTA and even the DIA somewhat were so gung-ho about the idea of having a college campus on the Prime Osborn site. Funny how that goes.
Jacksonville needs to have a top university present in the area if they want to attract more well paying businesses. Our MSA ranks in the 30's around other cities like Virginia Beach, Milwaukee & Raleigh.
No knock to UNF, I think it is a great university but they rank a lot lower than the top schools in similarly sized metros. It also doesn't carry its name across the country like other universities in similarly sized cities.
Not that I agree with how its being done but a move like this seems somewhat necessary soon if JAX has the vision to be a Fin-tech capital & a large advance manufacturing hub. How would UNF or JU support these goals? Even with the $$, would the outcome be anywhere near a UF doing the same?
School rankings only matter in promotional brochures. UF's name alone isn't going to make this a success. There's definite risk of too much mission creep and too many cooks in the kitchen.
Quote from: marcuscnelson on February 08, 2023, 12:11:53 PM
I don't know much about Tallahassee, but I'm curious how they handle as a city hosting two state universities.
FAMU gets the short end of the stick. At least that's how it felt in town when I attended. It's tradition likely keeps the CRT people from trying to seriously go after it. But FSU is also a significantly larger school.
Is the proposed West Palm Beach campus a new build or utilizing existing buildings?
Quote from: landfall on February 08, 2023, 04:21:25 PM
Is the proposed West Palm Beach campus a new build or utilizing existing buildings?
New build, to my understanding.
Quote from: thelakelander on February 08, 2023, 03:40:57 PM
Quote from: marcuscnelson on February 08, 2023, 12:11:53 PM
I don't know much about Tallahassee, but I'm curious how they handle as a city hosting two state universities.
FAMU gets the short end of the stick. At least that's how it felt in town when I attended. It's tradition likely keeps the CRT people from trying to seriously go after it. But FSU is also a significantly larger school.
Sounds then like UNF would be in essentially FAMU's position if... whatever this is, happens.
Of note, UF recently began a graduate level architecture program in Jax, based out of the Cathedral District.
https://dcp.ufl.edu/citylab/citylab-home-page/jaxlab/
Curry's office has filed legislation for the city's share of... whatever this is. $20 million now, $30 million more over the next two years.
https://twitter.com/NateMonroeTU/status/1625573899667705858?s=20&t=oZ9TYuggKCn1sJIj1n86dQ
Future Headline:
DeSantis, Sasse, and Curry announce new name for Jacksonville project: JAWS Campus - Jacksonville Anti Wokeness Satellite campus.
Quote from: marcuscnelson on February 14, 2023, 03:23:51 PM
Curry's office has filed legislation for the city's share of... whatever this is. $20 million now, $30 million more over the next two years.
https://twitter.com/NateMonroeTU/status/1625573899667705858?s=20&t=oZ9TYuggKCn1sJIj1n86dQ
Crazy! City and state just throwing money at things without any accountability.
How about DeSantis's patronage lapdog, New College right-wing president Corcoran, who has no experience as a college president, getting DOUBLE the base salary of the prior president that everyone loved. It comes to about $1,000 for each of the 700 students enrolled (if most don't leave now). And, it could approach $1 million.
How anyone can support this outright corruption is beyond me.
QuoteNew College hires Richard Corcoran as interim president for $699,000 annually
.....The board hired former Florida Education Commissioner Richard Corcoran to serve as interim president at an annual salary of $699,000, more than double the previous president's compensation and an amount that drew concerns from trustees and the public....
.....With his retirement money and a maximum bonus, Corcoran would earn $908,850 annually.
New College has about 700 students, so Corcoran is earning about $1,000 per student in base salary. He makes nearly as much as Florida State University President Richard McCullough's $700,000 base salary when he was hired in 2021. McCullough's school has more than 45,000 students.
The University of Central Florida's president earns $600,000 in base pay at a school with 68,000 students, although he can earn an annual bonus of up to $300,000 and receives $120,000 annually in deferred compensation, or $1,020,000 combined.
New College's revamped board fired former President Patricia Okker on Jan. 31 as part of a major shakeup at the school. Okker earned $305,000 a year. She also had a $40,000 annual housing allowance and $8,000 annual car allowance.
https://www.heraldtribune.com/story/news/politics/2023/02/13/richard-corcoran-will-lead-desantis-overhaul-of-new-college-of-florida/69897573007/
This whole thing just reeks of desperation and political gamesmanship.
The mayor is essentially proposing that the city write UF a check for $50 million not even to build something, but to RESEARCH building something, with no assurances that anything actually gets built.
What does spending $20 million in Jacksonville taxpayer money over the next 12 months in "due diligence" even look like in reality?
What happens if we spend $50 million in soft costs upfront?
Who foots the bill for actual construction? The state? UF? Or Jacksonville?
This is going to be such a disaster. All so Curry can get a photo op with Ben Sasse on his way out of office.
Is anyone asking the candidates for Mayor if they support this? If so, what are they saying?
Curious if there's ANY precedent for this.
A city gifting an outside university $50 million in taxpayer dollars, to study the possibility of potentially someday maybe opening a hypothetical campus, in some area or another, offering degrees in TBD.
It's baffling.
So the bill calls the... thing a "University of Florida Health and Financial Technology Graduate Education Center." That's... something? Maybe?
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2023/feb/14/council-introduces-bill-to-partially-fund-possible-uf-health-and-financial-technology-graduate-education-center/
By the way, this is a bit of a silly aside, but I do like the banner with the traditional seal they used at the announcement. The blue and silver logo has always had a weirdly dated look to me, and the red and blue "City of Jacksonville" wordmark Curry puts on letterheads is just awful.
Why does Carlucci seem to be the only council-member asking questions when something strange comes around?
Quote from: Jax_Developer on February 15, 2023, 10:15:53 AM
Why does Carlucci seem to be the only council-member asking questions when something strange comes around?
I think most of the council likely already know the details that the public doesn't know. Legislation doesn't pop up that fast without some lobbying taking place prior. There's already a general name and theme....University of Florida Health and Financial Technology Graduate Education Center. UF Health isn't that far away so something in the vicinity of that medical campus and building off that local investment has some natural logic.
Also, although likely not agreed to in stone, this pretty much tells you where the desired site is. There's clearly been discussion on the site prior to the public announcement based on JEA sending a letter and offer of $10 million in in-kind services earlier this month.
QuoteAlthough officials have not identified a site or how much land would be needed, the location could have a connection to the northern border of Downtown and Springfield.
A Feb. 2 letter to UF Vice President Thomas Mitchell from JEA Managing Director and CEO Jay Stowe says the utility would commit $10 million in in-kind services, including access to a trail to the project through the Main Street Water Plant and Laboratory parcel through a purchase/lease/easement.
"It is our intent to support this project as it supports downtown revitalization, complemented with the Hogan's Creek revitalization and Emerald Trail projects," Stowe wrote.
That in-kind investment includes:
• Access to the trail through the Main Street Water Plant and Laboratory parcel through a purchase/lease/easement.
• Within the JEA footprint, all infrastructure and beautification work, including the use of the conservation building.
• Beyond the JEA footprint, additional beautification in JEA rights of way.
Curry said a UF site selection committee would make a final decision.
Now, why the public isn't getting a more cohesive picture at this time, I don't know.
I bet that UF is betting on that area to improve in the completely unknown timeline for them to start.
Really interesting article.
Seems like the West Palm campus may be in a bit of jeopardy.
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/education/2023/02/18/university-of-florida-campus-in-west-palm-beach-stalled-over-land/69854179007/
Sure hope that our city leaders are confident that Jax isn't being used as a pawn in some political game with West Palm.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on February 18, 2023, 02:12:58 PM
Really interesting article.
Seems like the West Palm campus may be in a bit of jeopardy.
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/education/2023/02/18/university-of-florida-campus-in-west-palm-beach-stalled-over-land/69854179007/
Sure hope that our city leaders are confident that Jax isn't being used as a pawn in some political game with West Palm.
This is hilarious. In jeopardy because of what name will be on the building. Lol.
Quote from: fsu813 on February 19, 2023, 07:09:06 PM
Quote from: Ken_FSU on February 18, 2023, 02:12:58 PM
Really interesting article.
Seems like the West Palm campus may be in a bit of jeopardy.
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/education/2023/02/18/university-of-florida-campus-in-west-palm-beach-stalled-over-land/69854179007/
Sure hope that our city leaders are confident that Jax isn't being used as a pawn in some political game with West Palm.
This is hilarious. In jeopardy because of what name will be on the building. Lol.
[SARCASM]
At least the argument now is just over his name. People are saying that his earlier demand was that UF and WPB erect a larger-than-life statue of himself.
[/sarcasm]
Quote from: fsu813 on February 19, 2023, 07:09:06 PM
Quote from: Ken_FSU on February 18, 2023, 02:12:58 PM
Really interesting article.
Seems like the West Palm campus may be in a bit of jeopardy.
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/education/2023/02/18/university-of-florida-campus-in-west-palm-beach-stalled-over-land/69854179007/
Sure hope that our city leaders are confident that Jax isn't being used as a pawn in some political game with West Palm.
This is hilarious. In jeopardy because of what name will be on the building. Lol.
Seems completely silly. If he's giving them land valued at $50 million for free, perhaps they should take him up on his offer. Beggars can't be choosers.
After reading this article it seems WPB has the same concerns people are raising here in Jax. The difference is their government and supporters seem to be much more savvy about insuring UF does what it promises.
It also appears that much of what UF is promising WPB overlaps with what is being offered to Jax. On how many campuses can UF offer first rate programs along the same lines?
After reading this, I have to wonder if UF will play Jax against WPB for the best deal. Further, I note the State offered WPB a $100 million matching grant but Jax gets nothing from the State. WPM also appears to be getting a significantly bigger commitment than Jax.
Add it all up, and I wonder if we are either getting the short end of the stick or just being had. Not good either way.
Looks like the state might pitch in at least a little.
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2023/02/21/university-of-florida-asks-legislature-to-pay-for-jacksonville-campus/69914944007/
A few interesting quotes:
Quote"We're not trying to jump-start this industry in Northeast Florida," Duggan said. "It's already here. We're already very successful at recruiting businesses to come here with high-wage jobs."
QuoteThe appropriation request filed by Duggan says in the initial phase, UF would need to lease space in downtown Jacksonville while it hires additional experts and faculty so it can "begin offering part-time programs in 2025 as plans move forward to build a new campus over a multi-year period."
Duggan said the projection by the University of Florida is that once the education center is "fully up and running," the combined number of faculty and students at it will be in the range of 2,000 to 4,000.
"That's a very significant number of people," Duggan said.
QuoteThis year's appropriation request for the UF Health and Financial Technology Graduate Education Center says it will offer professional graduate programs creating a "pipeline of highly trained students" for the state while fostering innovation and invention through "solutions-based programs" developed by UF Health and the UF colleges of business and engineering.
The center will boost biomedical and artificial intelligence technologies, healthcare safety and quality for patients, health care administration and fintech, according to the appropriations request. Fintech is the use of technology in financial services.
"The primary direct services will be education and related support" and the initial academic programming "is expected to focus on UF's colleges of medicine, nursing, engineering and business," according to the request.
UF would use the state money to work with "public/private partners" in developing the center and its curriculum. The state funding also would lease facilities "as needed while development is underway and after," hire faculty and student support professionals and explore "collaborative education/innovation opportunities" with other education and research institutions in the area along with the kindergarten- through 12th-grade school system.
Location:
https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/investigates-secret-details-revealed-about-proposed-uf-campus-that-could-cost-200m/UQU7ZTA2ZFGYVIO5OQ3RQDUFAA/
Huh. Parcels 1, 2, and 3 are owned by FSCJ, Parcel 4 by JEA, and Parcel 5 (the Phase 2) by the city (currently the Singleton Senior Center). The plan is 18 acres total, ~14 of them in Phase 1. Surprisingly low-rise for how much money is being proposed here.
Personally, I get a bit nervous about the feasibility of all this looking at a slide trying to compare a UF Jacksonville graduate campus to Boston/Cambridge, Austin, Charlotte, and Stanford/Berkeley. Not to dump on us, but... we're not there.
Also the state support mentioned on this slide is half of what a state legislator has actually proposed. Seems like a bad sign.
It's nice to see some further specifics about what's being proposed.
Activating 18 dormant acres with 2,000 - 4,000 students and faculty members would be huge and would really do a good job building a connection between downtown and Springfield, and add a really cool anchor for the Emerald Trail.
UF, as much as I hate to say it, is widely considered to be a Top 10 public university in the nation and I think we'd draw students and eventually workers to the campus that wouldn't otherwise consider Jacksonville, further cementing our status as a major geographic player in these industries.
Million dollar question though, or $100 million question, that I don't trust any of the players involved to shoot straight on:
What is the relationship (from a program and funding perspective) between what's proposed here, and what was proposed in West Palm Beach. Living in Jax for 15 years, I've learned to be skeptical of coincidences. Is it merely a coincidence that the University of Florida was haggling with West Palm Beach on a similar campus that appears to have some degree of overlap, negotiations hit a snag over $50 million in public land, and - completely unrelatedly - Jacksonville comes along with 18 acres of land and $50 million in taxypayer dollars.
Would be delighted if both cities got a campus, with similar contributions from the state going to each.
But also very, very wary that this turns into Jax being used as a pawn against WPB, with state money only going to one campus.
Seems like the abandoned motel site that is across from this site, would be an obvious no-brainer to be included in this site. Obviously FCSJ will need to replace a lot of parking, maybe FBC's garages can do some of that.
Just watched Becker's video detailing the 17-page PowerPoint deck that he was given.
If I was a betting man, I'd put my full bet on this deck being a virtual copy and paste from what was presented to West Palm Beach.
In other words, unless UF is planning to open virtually identical satellite campuses in West Palm Beach and Jacksonville - which sure seems like it would be a weird move - I believe what Curry is proposing would replace/compete with/attempt to poach the proposed WPB campus.
Here's the Palm Beach Post article announcing the UF campus in West Palm.
Note the language. "AI across the curriculum." Fintech, financial services, AI and cyber security.
$100 million pledged from the state for a $200 million+ campus.
(https://snipboard.io/WtFJ73.jpg)
Now, take a look at the slides about the Jacksonville campus.
AI across the curriculum. Fintech, financial services, AI, and cyber security programs.
And, for the kicker, $100 million noted in the Jacksonville slides as the "state support," even though the state hadn't been asked for a dime yet to build anything in Jax. And, we know that UF has the right to use those stand funds elsewhere if West Palm falls through.
(https://snipboard.io/0RGnv5.jpg)
(https://snipboard.io/zKnmir.jpg)
(https://snipboard.io/hQBoIF.jpg)
GOTTA be a Jax vs. WPB political/funding battle, rather than Jax AND WPB.
If not, why the weird secrecy and the urgent rush to push city dollars into this thing.
Could be wrong, but occam's razor.
Just hope we don't end up with egg on our face and a $50 million hole in the coffers.
Quote from: vicupstate on February 21, 2023, 11:25:21 AM
Seems like the abandoned motel site that is what (1 block, 2?) that is nearby would be an obvious no-brainer to be included in this site. What is FCSJ using that property for now?
The abandoned motel, despite its acreage being shown on the map, does not appear to be included in the calculation of total acreage and is not highlighted as being part of the project. It's not owned by FSCJ, but by "Dozier Prestige Worldwide," who bought the block last October (https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2022/oct/11/park-view-inn-garage-site-downtown-sells-for-dollar2-5-million/).
3/4 of the FSCJ parcels are currently parking lots, with one (Parcel 3) currently having buildings on it.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on February 21, 2023, 10:52:25 AM
It's nice to see some further specifics about what's being proposed.
Activating 18 dormant acres with 2,000 - 4,000 students and faculty members would be huge and would really do a good job building a connection between downtown and Springfield, and add a really cool anchor for the Emerald Trail.
UF, as much as I hate to say it, is widely considered to be a Top 10 public university in the nation and I think we'd draw students and eventually workers to the campus that wouldn't otherwise consider Jacksonville, further cementing our status as a major geographic player in these industries.
Million dollar question though, or $100 million question, that I don't trust any of the players involved to shoot straight on:
What is the relationship (from a program and funding perspective) between what's proposed here, and what was proposed in West Palm Beach. Living in Jax for 15 years, I've learned to be skeptical of coincidences. Is it merely a coincidence that the University of Florida was haggling with West Palm Beach on a similar campus that appears to have some degree of overlap, negotiations hit a snag over $50 million in public land, and - completely unrelatedly - Jacksonville comes along with 18 acres of land and $50 million in taxypayer dollars.
Would be delighted if both cities got a campus, with similar contributions from the state going to each.
But also very, very wary that this turns into Jax being used as a pawn against WPB, with state money only going to one campus.
I don't think there's any disagreement that having 2-4k more people downtown is a good idea (although that does seem like a wide margin). I definitely have empathy for those concerned about how the city is ignoring all the universities that are actually based in town (UNF, JU, EWU) in order to scramble to hand tens of millions of dollars to another school. I'm curious what, if any, effort will be made to better connect this campus to Gainesville should it be built, or if they're really going to try and develop a completely separate campus environment.
But again, I'm concerned that we don't have the building blocks as a city to make this campus competitive vs what UF is comparing it to (Boston/Cambridge, Austin, Charlotte, and Stanford/Berkeley), which I suppose lends credence to the possibility that this is really a gambit to seal a deal with West Palm. There's also a broader question of whether the current and pending changes to UF and other schools by the state will keep UF itself competitive vs other states. You can herald AI all you want, if young people don't feel like they're going to be accepted in Florida they won't come.
Well....at least Ben didn't land down on the proposed site in a helicopter. ;D This sounds a LOT like what happened here with Colts fever.
^I wouldn't be surprised at all if that Cambridge, Austin, Research Triangle slide was first built with West Palm in mind either. Sure doesn't seem to fit here, and even though it looks good in a deck when you're asking for taxpayer dollars, it's wildly unrealistic from a local perspective.
And I've got the same empathy for UNF, FSCJ, EWC, etc. That said, I think this project - with the massive assumptions that it happens, and that the scope is similar to what's proposed in the deck - extends beyond just education to align with a lot of other goals we have in the area. Building the downtown residential base. Creating urban infill. Providing a captive customer base for downtown businesses. Adding anchors to the Emerald Trail. Checking that prestigious post-graduate education box that firms look for when considering relocation to Jax. If $50 million in city contribution would truly yield a $150 million matching investment from the state and private donors, and result in thousands of new downtown students and residents, feels like one of the smarter investments we could make as a city in our downtown.
All that said, it's all wrapped in the same secrecy and one-sided taxpayer agreements that have become the norm with this administration, so I don't think our other educational institutions necessarily has anything to sweat about either. City Council debates should be fascinating on this one.
No matter how you spin it, Gainesville is nearby and like OP's have said it is widely regarded as a top 10 public college. Most big time colleges have Fortune 500 businesses at their doorsteps. To me, this is an effort to do a version of that across multiple grad campuses. The Miami & Space Coast metros are gaining huge momentum nationally. The idea might be to have both, IDK. Nonetheless JAX is the closest 'real' city to UF and they are smart if the timing works for them with FinTech and some automated manufacturing moving to town. Just hope the city doesn't fumble the bag.
Quote from: marcuscnelson on February 21, 2023, 10:31:38 AM
Huh. Parcels 1, 2, and 3 are owned by FSCJ, Parcel 4 by JEA, and Parcel 5 (the Phase 2) by the city (currently the Singleton Senior Center). The plan is 18 acres total, ~14 of them in Phase 1. Surprisingly low-rise for how much money is being proposed here.
Personally, I get a bit nervous about the feasibility of all this looking at a slide trying to compare a UF Jacksonville graduate campus to Boston/Cambridge, Austin, Charlotte, and Stanford/Berkeley. Not to dump on us, but... we're not there.
Also the state support mentioned on this slide is half of what a state legislator has actually proposed. Seems like a bad sign.
^ Small corrections. It's Research Triangle, not Charlotte. And, I think the number on the slide is $100 million, double, not half, of Duggan's proposal of $50 million. Doesn't take away from your points though.
Possible synergies with FSCJ might include a shared student union, some high tech labs, mentorships from graduate students, career counselling, faculty, etc. FSCJ also has a nursing program, albeit on their north campus, that might get some spinoff benefits. Nursing is also offered at JU and UNF who might share in same. Especially interesting would be if student and/or faculty housing was built in the area, something that FSCJ has already dabbled in on a small scale.
One big gap in the education scene in Jax over the years has been the lack of a wider range of graduate level programs. If UF is offering such programs that do not overlap with what is already here, this might be complimentary to the existing schools. And, there are many cities that host multiple higher level education programs and are able to see them all supported. With the growth of the City and possibly attracting students from other areas that would not otherwise consider studying here, I don't necessarily think this would negatively impact the existing schools. I know many schools also have programs where students overlap some of their undergraduate time with graduate studies so joint study program with FSCJ, UNF, JU and EWC might be in order. These same school could also be feeder programs where their students don't have to leave the area to advance their education.
As I posted two days ago, I join in wondering if we are being played against West Palm Beach. The proposals look to be close to identical in language and dollars. The main hold up in WPB is a $50 million land donor wants the campus named for him and UF says that's not going to happen. Without his land, the WPB deal may be dead on arrival. Hence, a possible turn to Alternate #1, Jax.
QuoteBut again, I'm concerned that we don't have the building blocks as a city to make this campus competitive vs what UF is comparing it to (Boston/Cambridge, Austin, Charlotte, and Stanford/Berkeley), which I suppose lends credence to the possibility that this is really a gambit to seal a deal with West Palm. There's also a broader question of whether the current and pending changes to UF and other schools by the state will keep UF itself competitive vs other states. You can herald AI all you want, if young people don't feel like they're going to be accepted in Florida they won't come.
Ditto on these concerns.
To add, I attended a university with a large suite of grad programs and came to realize most grad students don't live like undergrads. Aside from being older (more mature ;D?), many have already worked before returning to grad school and/or are married, often with kids. In today's world, the better question is how virtual teaching would impact a physical campus. I have a cousin who teaches grad courses for a major state university. She said she works from home, teaching virtually, and just graduated a masters student she only met 3 times during his studies.
According to the Daily Record, the fairgrounds is also under consideration as a possible location.
QuoteFlorida House Rep. Wyman Duggan says at least two Downtown sites are being considered for the University of Florida's proposed Health and Financial Technology Graduate Education Center in Jacksonville.
According to Duggan, people close to the project say UF is reviewing land that's part of Florida State College at Jacksonville's Downtown Campus and the fairgrounds near TIAA Bank Field.
...
Iguana Investments Florida LLC, the economic development company controlled by Jacksonville Jaguars owner Shad Khan, entered into an agreement in April 2022 with the nonprofit Greater Jacksonville Agricultural Fair Association to buy the 14.1-acre fairgrounds at 510 Fairgrounds Place in Downtown's Sports and Entertainment District near TIAA Bank Field.
When asked Feb. 21 if the Jaguars/Iguana and UF have been talking about the fairgrounds property, a spokesperson said in an email:
"The Jacksonville Jaguars support the concept of a graduate-level education center being located in downtown Jacksonville, regardless of its location. That is a decision that will ultimately be made by the University of Florida."
...
According to Duggan, the center as proposed would house a combined 800 students, faculty and staff.
He said he has heard officials estimate 2,000 to 4,000 people could populate the center "when it's fully built-out and fully staffed up."
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2023/feb/22/uf-considering-downtown-fscj-fairgrounds-property-for-proposed-jacksonville-graduate-center/
It's a portion of FSCJ's campus or bust. The fairgrounds doesn't really make any sense.
UF announced (https://twitter.com/tbridis/status/1630612554622836738) this morning that they are "pausing" efforts to build a graduate campus in West Palm Beach.
It would seem that this leaves Jacksonville with an opening to receive the $100 million in state funding for the proposed graduate campus here, and Nate Monroe speculates (https://twitter.com/NateMonroeTU/status/1630613305382387726?s=20) as such.
QuoteUF campus West Palm Beach is on hold due to 'regrettable division' in the community
The university, citing "some regrettable divisions in the local community," said whether they'll ever go forward with a West Palm campus will now be part of its six-month strategic review.
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/local/westpb/2023/02/28/uf-says-campus-in-west-palm-beach-on-hold-due-to-jeff-greene-conflict/69954220007/
Quote from: thelakelander on February 28, 2023, 09:16:20 PM
QuoteUF campus West Palm Beach is on hold due to 'regrettable division' in the community
The university, citing "some regrettable divisions in the local community," said whether they'll ever go forward with a West Palm campus will now be part of its six-month strategic review.
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/local/westpb/2023/02/28/uf-says-campus-in-west-palm-beach-on-hold-due-to-jeff-greene-conflict/69954220007/
Opportunity knocks.
Quote from: thelakelander on February 28, 2023, 09:16:20 PM
QuoteUF campus West Palm Beach is on hold due to 'regrettable division' in the community
The university, citing "some regrettable divisions in the local community," said whether they'll ever go forward with a West Palm campus will now be part of its six-month strategic review.
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/local/westpb/2023/02/28/uf-says-campus-in-west-palm-beach-on-hold-due-to-jeff-greene-conflict/69954220007/
I think it's very interesting how much investment was already springing up around the proposed WPB campus. Especially looking at that "transit village" planned around the Tri-Rail station there. With the Rosa Parks transit hub across State St from the campus, and the U2C TOD study focusing so much development around there, I wonder if any local developers will take advantage of that.
Last night (Tuesday) ActionNewsJax touched on the "bargaining chip" angle as part of a report on the potential UF-Jax campus.
https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/million-more-proposed-uf-campus-jacksonville/022ba170-67a4-46f9-942b-37a68b558b14/
Quote from: marcuscnelson on March 01, 2023, 10:19:24 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on February 28, 2023, 09:16:20 PM
QuoteUF campus West Palm Beach is on hold due to 'regrettable division' in the community
The university, citing "some regrettable divisions in the local community," said whether they'll ever go forward with a West Palm campus will now be part of its six-month strategic review.
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/local/westpb/2023/02/28/uf-says-campus-in-west-palm-beach-on-hold-due-to-jeff-greene-conflict/69954220007/
I think it's very interesting how much investment was already springing up around the proposed WPB campus. Especially looking at that "transit village" planned around the Tri-Rail station there. With the Rosa Parks transit hub across State St from the campus, and the U2C TOD study focusing so much development around there, I wonder if any local developers will take advantage of that.
LaVilla, Hansontown and the Black Bottom are a pretty hot spots these days! If this happens, it will complement a number of projects in the vicinity that are already in the works.
Quote from: marcuscnelson on March 01, 2023, 10:19:24 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on February 28, 2023, 09:16:20 PM
QuoteUF campus West Palm Beach is on hold due to 'regrettable division' in the community
The university, citing "some regrettable divisions in the local community," said whether they'll ever go forward with a West Palm campus will now be part of its six-month strategic review.
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/local/westpb/2023/02/28/uf-says-campus-in-west-palm-beach-on-hold-due-to-jeff-greene-conflict/69954220007/
I think it's very interesting how much investment was already springing up around the proposed WPB campus. Especially looking at that "transit village" planned around the Tri-Rail station there. With the Rosa Parks transit hub across State St from the campus, and the U2C TOD study focusing so much development around there, I wonder if any local developers will take advantage of that.
Sadly no. The rents in the area can't support medium density development. The Corner Lot project is using practically every incentive possible to make it happen on 1st & main. UF or someone would need to guarantee lease rates or subsidize the projects early on. Certainly once the site is actually under construction, the conversation changes. WPB has rental rates that far exceed $2psf.
Broken record, but I still have an impossible time believing that the project that Curry and UF are talking about for Jacksonville isn't the same project that is/was offered to West Palm Beach. It's just too convenient that West Palm hits a roadblock and suddenly there's a hastily arranged press conference in Jacksonville to discuss an eerily similar Jax campus. I've lived in Jacksonville and been around the local politics long enough to know that there is rarely such things as coincidences.
Assuming we are talking about the same project, that leaves us with two scenarios:
1) UF genuinely has moved on from West Palm Beach, and is legitimately interested in Jacksonville for its new AI-driven graduate campus.
2) UF still sees West Palm as the most advantageous location for its new graduate campus, and is using Jacksonville (and $100 million in transferrable state money) as leverage to get their requested concessions from WPB
I've got far less confidence in which of the above is true. I'm hoping it's 1, while fearing it's 2.
I can't see a universe though where we should give $50 million in taxpayer dollars to UF without assurances that either they've moved on from West Palm, or that they have serious interest in Jacksonville as a second location for a graduate campus, assuming WPB comes back online.
Also, UF has stated that residential (student and faculty housing) will be a component of their new campus. And JEA has stated that they're on board to provide land and $10 million in free utilities to UF. Assuming the campus is a real thing that eventually happens, I wonder if there's an opportunity for UF and JEA to partner on converting JEA's existing headquarters to residential when they move into the new building. It's only like 2 or 3 blocks from the proposed campus.
Great points and I agree.
Also I saw, at one point, that JEA plans to dispose (I believe it was an RFP-like disposition) of the old HQ post move. Residential would be the only real use for it. The rooftop lounge would be a cool feature to revitalize.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on March 01, 2023, 11:23:26 AM
Broken record, but I still have an impossible time believing that the project that Curry and UF are talking about for Jacksonville isn't the same project that is/was offered to West Palm Beach. It's just too convenient that West Palm hits a roadblock and suddenly there's a hastily arranged press conference in Jacksonville to discuss an eerily similar Jax campus. I've lived in Jacksonville and been around the local politics long enough to know that there is rarely such things as coincidences.
Assuming we are talking about the same project, that leaves us with two scenarios:
1) UF genuinely has moved on from West Palm Beach, and is legitimately interested in Jacksonville for its new AI-driven graduate campus.
2) UF still sees West Palm as the most advantageous location for its new graduate campus, and is using Jacksonville (and $100 million in transferrable state money) as leverage to get their requested concessions from WPB
I've got far less confidence in which of the above is true. I'm hoping it's 1, while fearing it's 2.
I can't see a universe though where we should give $50 million in taxpayer dollars to UF without assurances that either they've moved on from West Palm, or that they have serious interest in Jacksonville as a second location for a graduate campus, assuming WPB comes back online.
Also, UF has stated that residential (student and faculty housing) will be a component of their new campus. And JEA has stated that they're on board to provide land and $10 million in free utilities to UF. Assuming the campus is a real thing that eventually happens, I wonder if there's an opportunity for UF and JEA to partner on converting JEA's existing headquarters to residential when they move into the new building. It's only like 2 or 3 blocks from the proposed campus.
I believe it's number 2, but I think UF is legitimately considering moving on. The developer they are dealing with (Jeff Greene) is notoriously difficult to deal with and doesn't get along well with the City of WPB. I also don't believe UF wants his name attached to the building or university in any way. He is currently constructing this building and halted construction of it for a year (after it was topped out) to play a game of chicken with the City over his desire to reduce the mix of office. He ultimately lost and started construction again, but I believe there are still some bad feelings about it. He's Jax's best friend right now.
(https://floridayimby.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Screen-Shot-2022-10-02-at-9.37.09-PM.png)
Quote from: Ken_FSU on March 01, 2023, 11:23:26 AMAlso, UF has stated that residential (student and faculty housing) will be a component of their new campus. And JEA has stated that they're on board to provide land and $10 million in free utilities to UF. Assuming the campus is a real thing that eventually happens, I wonder if there's an opportunity for UF and JEA to partner on converting JEA's existing headquarters to residential when they move into the new building. It's only like 2 or 3 blocks from the proposed campus.
If there's student housing involved, I would not doubt that every single piece of dirt immediately surrounding FSCJ's campus has high potential for this type of use.
Quote from: Jax_Developer on March 01, 2023, 11:51:56 AM
Great points and I agree.
Also I saw, at one point, that JEA plans to dispose (I believe it was an RFP-like disposition) of the old HQ post move. Residential would be the only real use for it. The rooftop lounge would be a cool feature to revitalize.
Yes, JEA no longer plans to raze the building. It took a lot of behind-the-scenes hard work over the last few years for that outcome to materialize.
My guess is that their building's best use is what it was when it was originally built in the 1960s. Mixed-use. However, this time more of a mix of residential-hotel as opposed to office in the tower portion of the two block site.
The most interesting part of the JEA complex to me is the old Ivey's building and what happens on the top five floors with no windows!
Quote from: Jax_Developer on March 01, 2023, 10:57:23 AM
Quote from: marcuscnelson on March 01, 2023, 10:19:24 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on February 28, 2023, 09:16:20 PM
QuoteUF campus West Palm Beach is on hold due to 'regrettable division' in the community
The university, citing "some regrettable divisions in the local community," said whether they'll ever go forward with a West Palm campus will now be part of its six-month strategic review.
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/local/westpb/2023/02/28/uf-says-campus-in-west-palm-beach-on-hold-due-to-jeff-greene-conflict/69954220007/
I think it's very interesting how much investment was already springing up around the proposed WPB campus. Especially looking at that "transit village" planned around the Tri-Rail station there. With the Rosa Parks transit hub across State St from the campus, and the U2C TOD study focusing so much development around there, I wonder if any local developers will take advantage of that.
Sadly no. The rents in the area can't support medium density development. The Corner Lot project is using practically every incentive possible to make it happen on 1st & main. UF or someone would need to guarantee lease rates or subsidize the projects early on. Certainly once the site is actually under construction, the conversation changes. WPB has rental rates that far exceed $2psf.
Okay, fair enough if we're not immediately getting a $1.3 billion transit village. But a big point of a big premier state university campus is attracting people who are willing to rent new apartments rather than the relatively minimal existing housing stock, whether that's students here, the graduates, or professors. Having multiple other schools nearby that could take advantage of any project (including JU and UNF's downtown campuses, FSCJ even, perhaps some EWU students) could be helpful. I don't think it'd be unreasonable for UF to support an adjacent residential/mixed use project and even subsidizing some units for their students or employees. They bought an entire newer apartment complex in Gainesville not long ago to repurpose for subsidizing graduate housing. If they're serious about Jacksonville they could very well do something similar.
A friend who lived in Newark a decade ago told me it wasn't a blistering market back when they first started school there, and the whole neighborhood was aching for new rentals even though the apartment market at that time was weak. That seems similar to where we are now.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on March 01, 2023, 11:23:26 AM
Broken record, but I still have an impossible time believing that the project that Curry and UF are talking about for Jacksonville isn't the same project that is/was offered to West Palm Beach. It's just too convenient that West Palm hits a roadblock and suddenly there's a hastily arranged press conference in Jacksonville to discuss an eerily similar Jax campus. I've lived in Jacksonville and been around the local politics long enough to know that there is rarely such things as coincidences.
Assuming we are talking about the same project, that leaves us with two scenarios:
1) UF genuinely has moved on from West Palm Beach, and is legitimately interested in Jacksonville for its new AI-driven graduate campus.
2) UF still sees West Palm as the most advantageous location for its new graduate campus, and is using Jacksonville (and $100 million in transferrable state money) as leverage to get their requested concessions from WPB
I've got far less confidence in which of the above is true. I'm hoping it's 1, while fearing it's 2.
I can't see a universe though where we should give $50 million in taxpayer dollars to UF without assurances that either they've moved on from West Palm, or that they have serious interest in Jacksonville as a second location for a graduate campus, assuming WPB comes back online.
Also, UF has stated that residential (student and faculty housing) will be a component of their new campus. And JEA has stated that they're on board to provide land and $10 million in free utilities to UF. Assuming the campus is a real thing that eventually happens, I wonder if there's an opportunity for UF and JEA to partner on converting JEA's existing headquarters to residential when they move into the new building. It's only like 2 or 3 blocks from the proposed campus.
I was thinking early in this, before we knew about the site selection, that a campus made up of the three blocks (save for the existing Salvation Army stuff) along Main Street between Church and Adams Streets (including the current Main Street Pocket Park), with the addition of the JEA building if that became available, would be a really cool urban location, especially if there was the ability to slow down Main Street so it'd be better for pedestrians. You'd be able to leverage the JEA site, plus have the Main Library right there, with multiple existing apartment buildings within a block of Adams & Main. You could even take advantage of the FBC Academy block, and the garage to the north of it. There's also the Jessie to the south, JWJ Park and the Skyway to the west, and Cathedral District and Elbow to the east. It'd be a great spot in the heart of downtown, but I imagine the hardest part would be securing all the parcels. Benefit of the currently highlighted site is that everything is either owned by FSCJ, JEA, or COJ.
I think in the end, UF would have preferred West Palm Beach (Jacksonville did lose the competitive process after all), but given everything with Greene they're open to trying to make it work here. If that's the case, and they're serious, we might as well lock it down as much as we can.
In an ideal world, UF agrees to some type of JV or flat out self-develops adjacent properties for housing/dorm use. I do think the confirmation of when & what would really churn things up quick. There are a lot of great buildings nearby already too..! except for that 5-story windowless building.. lol. I don't know how you retrofit that. Probably will meet the infamous wrecking ball at some point if this all goes well.
Is putting windows in a window-less building that difficult? It doesn't seem to be that strange or unusual, but I am no expert.
There are two more vacant, or almost vacant, parcels across State Street from the FSCJ site, on either side of Laura Street - the "TOD" site on the east side of the Rosa Parks, and on the other side of Laura, the former drive-through bank and site of the former funeral home, extending all the way to the 7-11. Using these for educational, office, or residential would likely require a pedestrian overpass above State Street since I don't foresee anything happening to slow traffic on State.
Quote from: vicupstate on March 01, 2023, 03:24:26 PM
Is putting windows in a window-less building that difficult? It doesn't seem to be that strange or unusual, but I am no expert.
You just put windows into it. It's a solid 180,000 square foot building (old department store) with very high ceiling heights.
Quote from: Charles Hunter on March 01, 2023, 04:02:00 PM
There are two more vacant, or almost vacant, parcels across State Street from the FSCJ site, on either side of Laura Street - the "TOD" site on the east side of the Rosa Parks, and on the other side of Laura, the former drive-through bank and site of the former funeral home, extending all the way to the 7-11. Using these for educational, office, or residential would likely require a pedestrian overpass above State Street since I don't foresee anything happening to slow traffic on State.
Just modify the signal timing to be more pedestrian friendly. It's pretty easy to cross State and Union on foot when traffic is stopped for the north/south streets.
Quote from: thelakelander on March 01, 2023, 06:17:10 PM
Quote from: vicupstate on March 01, 2023, 03:24:26 PM
Is putting windows in a window-less building that difficult? It doesn't seem to be that strange or unusual, but I am no expert.
You just put windows into it. It's a solid 180,000 square foot building (old department store) with very high ceiling heights.
Ah yeah.. Ceilings and floor plates. I didn't know it was an old department store.. that's interesting. I'd like to see other uses DT and this building could easily fill an IT or Communications role without much retrofit.
Quote from: thelakelander on March 01, 2023, 06:17:10 PM
Quote from: vicupstate on March 01, 2023, 03:24:26 PM
Is putting windows in a window-less building that difficult? It doesn't seem to be that strange or unusual, but I am no expert.
You just put windows into it. It's a solid 180,000 square foot building (old department store) with very high ceiling heights.
If nothing else, sounds optimal for perhaps a lecture hall building of some kind. Easier than most buildings (save for a new build) to add auditorium-style seating, then some smaller classrooms in other areas.
New Times-Union column on the various meetings involved in this.
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/columns/nate-monroe/2023/03/02/uf-boosters-pitch-donors-on-jacksonville-campus-in-private-meetings/69959625007/
There is a second article on The Times Union web site from West Palm Beach. It appears their project could be much more robust than Jacksonville's as it discusses needing up to 2 million square feet and having $300 million in naming rights. The square feet are equal to two TIAA/Everbank towers downtown. Don't see that in the cards here.
Quote"It's an absolute selling point because when companies come to us they ask us where will their employees be trained," Smallridge said. "We are very much counting on, and working hard, to get the 2 million square feet for UF up and running for long-term economic success."
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/westpb/2023/03/02/university-of-florida-campus-in-west-palm-still-doable-but-needs-work/69957893007/
QuoteIs UF West Palm campus back on? - Billionaire Greene says he is willing to compromise
March 2, 2023 | Palm Beach Post, The (FL)
Author/Byline: Kimberly Miller, Palm Beach Post | Page: 1A | Section: A Section
1033 Words | Readability: Lexile: 1580, grade level(s): >12
A once-kumbaya plan to bring a bustling University of Florida campus to West Palm Beach looked kaput Tuesday when the state's flagship school groused about "regrettable divisions" in the community that almost certainly stem from a fuss over naming rights.
But the self-made Palm Beach billionaire at the center of the fray said he still wants to bring a campus to downtown, is meeting with new UF President Ben Sasse this month and is willing to compromise to get a deal done.
Developer Jeff Greene, who once waited tables at The Breakers before earning billions of dollars betting against the subprime mortgage market, said having his name on the school in exchange for donating 5 acres of land gave him skin in the game. He said the donation would be a motivator to "put his heart and soul" into a hometown program, and spur donations from moneyed friends who otherwise don't care about UF.
But instead of accolades, Greene said he got a black eye after the university backed out of a naming agreement penned in early 2022.
"This whole thing is getting spun in a mean-spirited way against me," Greene said in an interview with The Palm Beach Post on Wednesday.
After learning his name wouldn't be on the campus, Greene said he offered to sell the land to UF instead.
That deal didn't pan out. In late January, then-UF President Ken Fuchs wrote Greene to tell him that UF didn't want to name the entire campus after Greene because the university needed to keep naming rights available for other needed donations.
Fuchs then told Greene the price of naming rights for various aspects of the project: $150 million for the campus, $100 million for the school and $50 million for a building. "Your request to have the campus named after you in exchange for your gift would not allow us the naming inventory needed to secure $300 million," Fuchs wrote to Greene.
In the Wednesday interview, Greene retorted: "I don't care about a building. This was never about naming. It was about getting involved."
To build a West Palm Beach campus, UF needs 12 acres, including Green's 5 acres, combined with 5 acres from the county and 2 acres from the city.
Efforts to fold Greene's land into the campus plan reached a stalemate after the December sales deal fell apart. On Tuesday, UF announced it would "pause" its plans for a possible West Palm Beach campus in a statement that hinted at the behind-the-scenes drama.
"Given some regrettable divisions in the local community, the University of Florida is pausing deliberation about a possible West Palm Beach campus," the announcement said. "As Florida's flagship university and a land-grant institution, UF is committed to being a unifying presence throughout the state and does not want to divide communities we aim to serve."
Greene said he had a "very positive conversation" with Sasse on Tuesday where he got the impression that Sasse, being new, just needed time to review the West Palm Beach plan inked by the former president's administration before signing off on it.
But that's not what was conveyed in the UF statement, Greene said.
"At the end of the day, he's the sheriff," Greene said about Sasse. "I'm not going to pick a fight with him."
City and county officials rushed to soften UF's statement, saying they were hopeful an agreement for a campus was still possible.
Kelly Smallridge, president and CEO of the Palm Beach County Business Development Board, said she doesn't think businesses considering moving to the area will have a knee-jerk reaction to the UF announcement. But the campus has been a big part of her pitch to local and out-of-state companies.
"It's an absolute selling point because when companies come to us they ask us where will their employees be trained," Smallridge said. "We are very much counting on, and working hard, to get the 2 million square feet for UF up and running for long-term economic success."
Tuesday's announcement didn't shock Smallridge, but it was a realization that the plan, which appeared on track with both the county and city readily approving land donations, needed more finessing.
"I go back 34 years doing this, and I know that the hardest projects can come with little bumps along the way," Smallridge said.
A get-together in Palm Beach County between UF donors and the school's fundraising department is scheduled for Friday. Greene said Sasse couldn't meet with him then, but suggested meeting later in the month.
Stephen Ross, the billionaire owner of the Miami Dolphins football team and chairman of the prolific West Palm Beach builder Related Cos., has worked behind the scenes to court UF. He said he's hopeful a deal with UF is "salvageable" and believes Palm Beach County School District land near A.W. Dreyfoos School of the Arts is a feasible alternative to Green's 5 acres.
Ross said he has spoken to school district Superintendent Mike Burke about the possibility of using district land.
The district released a statement Tuesday saying it is "exploring beneficial opportunities for growth."
"As such, Superintendent Mike Burke has taken part in talks with the City of West Palm Beach, the University of Florida, and interested parties to explore a potential partnership within our school community," the statement said.
Millions of dollars in public and private money are riding on the UF campus in West Palm Beach, including $100 million Florida lawmakers gave the school last year to build the program. The money is contingent on getting the 12 acres of land donated and achieving $100 million in cash donations before July 1. 2027.
Greene said he'd like to follow the original plan with UF where he donates the land in exchange for the campus being named after him.
But he is also willing to make up the difference between what the school is able to raise and the $100 million, sell his 5 acres to UF, and "walk away."
"I think we still have the best site and best city for the school," Greene said.
Palm Beach Post reporters Alexandra Clough and Katherine Kokal contributed to this story.
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/restricted/?return=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.palmbeachpost.com%2Fstory%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Fwestpb%2F2023%2F03%2F02%2Funiversity-of-florida-campus-in-west-palm-still-doable-but-needs-work%2F69957893007%2F
UF representative came to speak to the city council finance committee about the project yesterday:
https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2023/03/07/uf-satellite-campus-moves-closer-to-reality-but-questions-still-remain/
I'm all for striking while the irons hot to miraculously win this school. However, of note: no way to recoup the $50 mill gift if UF decides it's not going to work out. Not overly concerned about that, but seems obviously irresponsible not to include.
Bigger of note: the location now only has to be "within 2 miles" of the Downtown boundaries. WTF? Seems like a red flag.
West Palm Beach leaders are now in talks with other out-of-state universities as UF decides whether they even want a campus in West Palm. The proposed Jacksonville campus continues to gain traction.
QuoteTalks are afoot to lure a top, private, out-of-state university in a bid to replace a University of Florida downtown graduate campus as the highly-touted proposal remains stalled with no resolution in sight.
West Palm Beach Mayor Keith James said Monday that "conversations are taking place behind the scenes" to possibly bring another university to the city. "We have the land," James said.
James would not name any names, nor did he indicate a firm deal was afoot.
But his comments followed similar remarks made earlier that afternoon by Related Cos. partner Gopal Rajegowda during a panel discussion on West Palm Beach real estate, hosted by the Urban Land Institute.
During the Monday presentation, Rajegowda noted the once hoped-for UF campus was up in the air. Then Rajegowda added that "another university is excited about bringing a campus to the downtown."
...
Greene said Sasse told him that details over land donation terms weren't a factor.
"I think they're trying to decide if they even want to have any campus," Greene said.
Greene also said he suggested to James that if UF doesn't want to come to West Palm Beach, the city issue a request for proposals. Greene said he remains eager to "help build a great school in this community."
But Greene said it was appropriate to wait a few more months before officials seek other suitors to occupy the prime downtown land.
In a statement issued Tuesday, UF reiterated that the West Palm Beach campus "is now part of our larger six-month strategic review of geographic partnerships." UF didn't elaborate on the status of the review.
...
Around the same time that UF was backpedaling on a West Palm Beach campus, the university announced a proposed campus in Jacksonville. In February, UF said the campus would focus on fields such as health care.
By March, the campus was slated to also include artificial intelligence and financial technology, also known as fintech. Fintech programs had been earmarked for the proposed West Palm Beach campus.
Kelly Smallridge, president of Palm Beach County's Business Development Board, said her heart sank when she saw that fintech was planned for Jacksonville. Smallridge also said discussions between UF and local business leaders to shape the curriculum for graduate programs in West Palm Beach have ceased.
"I am very discouraged," Smallridge said. "We were very certain this would happen as part of our economic development initiative. But I'm not going to write it off. Hopefully, (UF) needed time, and that's where they're at right now."
Meanwhile, the Jacksonville UF campus plan is gaining momentum.
https://www.gainesville.com/story/news/local/westpb/2023/04/20/could-university-of-florida-be-replaced-in-west-palm-beach-campus/70125440007/
^Love it!
West Palm's loss is our gain.
^ I have said all along I thought this was UF playing one city against another. The proposals were nearly identical and no way did it make sense for UF to build out in both cities. My guess is Jax was Plan B and now that becomes Plan A given the issues that arose in WPB. Still issues with the ambiguous info so far so we shall see if UF really has a solid plan in the end.
WPB says they are looking at an out-of-state replacement. I hope DeSantis isn't advocating for Hillsdale College.... what he is trying to turn New College into >:(.
Lucky us, it seems. The state legislature appears to be coming around to $75 million to support the UF campus downtown.
https://floridapolitics.com/archives/608169-budget-conference-house-senate-far-apart-on-money-for-uf-jax-campus/
Quote from: marcuscnelson on May 01, 2023, 08:21:19 AM
Lucky us, it seems. The state legislature appears to be coming around to $75 million to support the UF campus downtown.
https://floridapolitics.com/archives/608169-budget-conference-house-senate-far-apart-on-money-for-uf-jax-campus/
That's not luck, that's relationships
Pretty much!
Did I read that correctly - 10k students? I thought it was supposed to be like 2k grad students (?). That's a ton of enrollment downtown.
a "15-acre campus expected to handle about 10,000 grad students with a focus on health care business, engineering and artificial intelligence,"
^Unless something has radically changed, I don't think that 10k figure is accurate.
Long-term numbers have always been presented as 2-4k, including faculty.
Yes, seems like a typo. Maybe they meant 1,000.
Quote from: blizz01 on May 01, 2023, 06:31:26 PM
Did I read that correctly - 10k students? I thought it was supposed to be like 2k grad students (?). That's a ton of enrollment downtown.
a "15-acre campus expected to handle about 10,000 grad students with a focus on health care business, engineering and artificial intelligence,"
I've heard the long view is very much a factor in all this, so expect growth well beyond whatever the initial number is.
A 15-acre campus with 10,000 students would need high-rise buildings. They'd need more land to accommodate that number, assuming this campus would also have dorms.
^ I once visited a 24 story dorm that held about 1,000 students. And, that was bare bones living, before the day of bigger dorm suites with private bathrooms and expanded kitchens. Based on that, it would take at least 10 such towers to house 10,000 students, and that is assuming they are all single, not likely with graduate students who may not just be married but have started families with kids.
If a block were one acre, we are talking at least 10 acres and that probably doesn't include the infrastructure, such as retail, recreational space and parking, needed for so many residents. We haven't even started talking about the educational infrastructure.
How amazing would be to build the campus in Lavilla. Talk about a huge transformation of vacant land
I'm totally cool with higher education facilities being expanded upon on FSCJ's campus. That's close enough to LaVilla and helps stimulate the market for infill development more related to bringing the neighborhood back as a mixed use urban district.
QuoteDeSantis, Renner state support for Jacksonville UF graduate center
Florida House and Senate lawmakers have agreed to add a $75 million to the state budget the help fund the estimated $200 million center.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2023/may/02/desantis-renner-state-support-for-jacksonville-uf-graduate-center/
And the 10,000 students is reaffirmed in the article (by year 10).
Will likely need more money and land somewhere down the road to meet that number by 10 years in operation.
Quote from: blizz01 on May 03, 2023, 04:14:15 PM
And the 10,000 students is reaffirmed in the article (by year 10).
Maybe they corrected it? Here's what I see as of now:
QuoteUF Vice President for Government and Community Relations Mark Kaplan said at that time that initial target estimates are 1,000 students enrolled at the graduate center by year 10.
$34 million in the budget for UNF as well.
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2023/05/04/florida-legislature-backs-big-jacksonville-area-projects-in-budget/70178690007/
Big new article that's largely about stadium renovation, but also includes some pretty relevant info here:
https://floridapolitics.com/archives/616416-jags-stadium-cost/
QuoteIn both documents, the Jaguars also hope to "bring the University of Florida graduate campus to the current Fairgrounds property." That location would unlock money from Tallahassee, which has already committed $75 million to the UF campus in the 2023 Session, sidestepping the state's unwillingness to contribute to stadium projects.
The Jaguars offer deal sweeteners in both documents, including $5 million to help meet the statutorily required local fundraising requirement, a donation of the 14-acre Fairgrounds to UF, and the creation of a "vibrant mixed-use neighborhood."
The May 24 document includes more aspirational language to "support development in the downtown core," including a so-called "barbell effect" with the proposed mixed-use Eastside development as a "catalyst" for westerly development downtown.
Meanwhile, both iterations enthuse about the Gator Bowl becoming part of the college football playoffs and continuation of the neutral-site Florida-Georgia game. The Gator Bowl is stressed as a reason to get the deal done "at least 12 months in advance" of the expiration of the TV deal and naming rights deal, which runs through the 2025 game.
Both the Gator Bowl and Florida-Georgia would relocate during 2026 and 2027 and return to Jacksonville in 2028 if this timeline holds.
With the new soccer Stadium being nearby too.. this location for the LR makes more sense to me.
"LR"??
AG Gancarski is reporting (https://twitter.com/aggancarski/status/1669411784808120331?s=46&t=vkOnzVgzGQzmKS--73ASSg) that the $75 million in state funding for the UF Graduate Campus made it onto the budget, surviving the Governor's veto pen.
Wayne Wood is proposing to repurpose the recently vacated JEA buildings at Main and Church for the UF-Jax Campus.
https://open.substack.com/pub/sherrymagill/p/waynes-world-a-different-idea?r=6uwb9&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
Quote
Converting acreage near FSCJ's downtown campus doesn't work well, says Wood. In fact, his analysis of developing the acreage identified in Curry's slide deck presentations is too costly and will require removing 50% of college parking, a JEA water processing facility, the Mary L. Singleton Senior Center, the City's Engineer's Building, and six Waterworks Park historic structures.
And developing a new campus on Fairgrounds property, Wood argues, is too far removed from the urban core which boasts museums, small shops, walkable streets, and outdoor parks. It's where people are already concentrated.
Wood's Proposal: Reimagine JEA's Church Street Complex
"It's the perfect location for the University of Florida downtown campus," says Wood, referring to JEA's Church Street complex which he describes as "nationally significant."
It's big, at 360,000 square feet.
This moves the JWB purchase of the Salvation Army site, across Main Street, into the 'very interesting' category.
Quote from: Charles Hunter on July 15, 2023, 02:05:21 PM
Wayne Wood is proposing to repurpose the recently vacated JEA buildings at Main and Church for the UF-Jax Campus.
https://open.substack.com/pub/sherrymagill/p/waynes-world-a-different-idea?r=6uwb9&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
Quote
Converting acreage near FSCJ's downtown campus doesn't work well, says Wood. In fact, his analysis of developing the acreage identified in Curry's slide deck presentations is too costly and will require removing 50% of college parking, a JEA water processing facility, the Mary L. Singleton Senior Center, the City's Engineer's Building, and six Waterworks Park historic structures.
And developing a new campus on Fairgrounds property, Wood argues, is too far removed from the urban core which boasts museums, small shops, walkable streets, and outdoor parks. It's where people are already concentrated.
Wood's Proposal: Reimagine JEA's Church Street Complex
"It's the perfect location for the University of Florida downtown campus," says Wood, referring to JEA's Church Street complex which he describes as "nationally significant."
It's big, at 360,000 square feet.
This moves the JWB purchase of the Salvation Army site, across Main Street, into the 'very interesting' category.
I had a similar idea a few months ago:
Quote from: marcuscnelson on March 01, 2023, 01:19:21 PM
I was thinking early in this, before we knew about the site selection, that a campus made up of the three blocks (save for the existing Salvation Army stuff) along Main Street between Church and Adams Streets (including the current Main Street Pocket Park), with the addition of the JEA building if that became available, would be a really cool urban location, especially if there was the ability to slow down Main Street so it'd be better for pedestrians. You'd be able to leverage the JEA site, plus have the Main Library right there, with multiple existing apartment buildings within a block of Adams & Main. You could even take advantage of the FBC Academy block, and the garage to the north of it. There's also the Jessie to the south, JWJ Park and the Skyway to the west, and Cathedral District and Elbow to the east. It'd be a great spot in the heart of downtown, but I imagine the hardest part would be securing all the parcels. Benefit of the currently highlighted site is that everything is either owned by FSCJ, JEA, or COJ.
I think in the end, UF would have preferred West Palm Beach (Jacksonville did lose the competitive process after all), but given everything with Greene they're open to trying to make it work here. If that's the case, and they're serious, we might as well lock it down as much as we can.
I would certainly suspect though that being able to reduce the city obligation for the stadium by going with the Fairgrounds might win out here. Plus it means they can get away with lower-slung buildings instead of immediately going for midrise or taller.
I don't know what UF's needs are but the campus doesn't sound like it will be a big one. The old JEA tower site, along with others, all could probably be made to work. Sounds like the type of project or catalytic opportunity a downtown master plan would address or provide guidance for.
^ Another advantage of the old JEA building is the adjacent windowless former Ivey's department store building. Seems that would be perfect for housing and protecting IT infrastructure that may be critical to UF's fintech or other cutting edge technology plans.
Being on the Downtown electric grid shouldn't hurt either. And close to the internet backbone and hubs at Church Street.
The height of the tower might also offer superior microwave or satellite transmission opportunities, often used as alternatives or backups to terrestrial connectivity.
Wonder if JEA already utilized or addressed some of these things during their occupancy.
Quote from: thelakelander on July 15, 2023, 03:12:17 PM
I don't know what UF's needs are but the campus doesn't sound like it will be a big one. The old JEA tower site, along with others, all could probably be made to work. Sounds like the type of project or catalytic opportunity a downtown master plan would address or provide guidance for.
The presentation Action News Jax showed a few months ago suggested about 14 acres of land was being requested for at least "Phase 1" of the campus. The FSCJ site and the Fairgrounds are right about that much, although the FSCJ plan leaves a lot out as far as buildable area (obviously it's early to assume exact built space, but this is all we have):
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/847298939618590760/1130695968216600616/Screenshot_2023-07-17_at_11.01.37_PM.png)
The space that appears to actually have buildings on it (parcels 1, 2, and 3) amounts to about 9.3 acres. I don't think a specific square footage number has been given, although the price estimate then was around $200 million to build. The 4-block area I suggested in March (including the JEA/Universal Marion building) is just under 9 acres.
If the city was angling to get UF into the JEA building I suppose you'd want to offer it and perhaps part of an adjacent block to serve as a quad of sorts (or future expansion space if necessary), but that's assuming the city wants to do that more than it's willing to let the Jags have it at the Fairgrounds.
I was randomly reminded earlier that JTA was angling to somehow turn the Prime Osborn site into an innovation campus for UF or similar, but ironically now that UF is actually serious it doesn't appear that site is in the running at all. Ah, well. ;D
CSX donating $10 million over 5 years.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2023/jul/25/csx-donates-10-million-toward-jacksonville-uf-graduate-center/
^^That's great news. Good for CSX! (although I'm sure having this school here will benefit them and so they *should* pony up)
Interesting that the article's listing of contributors did not mention Khan's conditional (on UF locating at the Fairgrounds site) contribution.
This has to be one of the strangest ways to blow over $187.5 million and counting. No programs and no site figured out but we need all these dollars and more. Seems ass-backwards to me. Just like the autonomous vehicles.
Usually, you have plan and a budget and then raise dollars. Amazing that donors, the City and State are all giving toward this "black hole" without having a clue what will come of it. Typical MO of the City... just surprised others are participating.
I support UF building a base here but it needs to be done right. Too many times in my life I have seen these "opportunities" where the City gets the cart before the horse and the project blows up. This reminds me of what Jax did to attract Offshore Power Systems building floating nuclear power plants here. Cost the City half of Blount Island with nothing to show for it but the world's largest gantry crane. The Skyway would also be on my list.
Jacksonville is the world capital of "rainbow chasers" it seems.
QuoteWith initial fundraising goal met, here's what's next for UF in Jax plans
Having raised $62.5 million in private donations to potentially set up a graduate campus in Jacksonville, the University of Florida is preparing to move on to the next phase of the project.
That phase — which will include delving into site selection and deciding what programs will be part of the center — will require tens of millions of more dollars, a university spokesperson said earlier this week.
"Similar to the initial fundraising phase, UF will be looking at key industry and philanthropic leaders to secure the necessary support," spokeswoman Nicole Yucht said in the wake of CSX's donation of $10 million for the project. "Now our charge is to go back and ask all of those and more to continue to move forward."
So far, the process has raised $187.5 million, including $75 million from the state included in the 2023-2024 budget signed June 15 by Gov. DeSantis, and $50 million from the city, with $20 million of that coming in the current fiscal year.
The private donations add up to $62.5 million, including the money from CSX and $5 million pledged by the Jacksonville Jaguars — surpassing the $50 million goal organizers had originally set.
Jaguars owner Shad Khan has also said that his Iguana Investments would donate the former Jacksonville Fairgrounds site, which it purchased last year, for the campus.
It's unclear if the university will use that site, though, with Yucht saying it's too early in the process to discuss specific sites — or many other details about the plan.
The proposal announced in February had little in the way of details, other than that facility would focus on graduate education and would be downtown.
The rest is still being hammered out, Yucht said: "We're still very early in the process as far as site selection goes, what programs will be there, etc. This is like a startup coming to the community. They're going to need a lot of information and do a lot of evaluation."
That will include meeting with academic leaders and industry partners to determine exactly what educational needs the center should meet.
One area of focus that seems unlikely: logistics.
Despite the money from CSX, the center would not be looking to compete with the University of North Florida's Transportation and Logistics Flagship Program, which has been recognized by the Florida Legislature as a "program of distinction."
"I think we very much appreciate their gift as an investment in the community, not an investment in a specific program," Yucht said about the CSX money. "This is not to compete with other educational institutions."
Although the process has moved from the initial fundraising phase into more of a visioning phase, there is no timeline for when things might progress further.
"UF, the city of Jacksonville, the community stakeholders and all of our partners are really engaged in planning that next phase," she said. "We need to work closely with Mayor Deegan and her team to determine next steps for the project and shape a mutually beneficial vision for the center."
https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2023/07/28/uf-jax-next-phase.html?utm_source=st&utm_medium=en&utm_campaign=ae&utm_content=JA&j=32229851&senddate=2023-07-28
I won't say this isn't weird, but I don't think this is the city's fault. UF is a state school, after all.
I'm more confused what UF is actually spending this money on. I recall the slides saying that the campus would cost $200 million or so but it's unclear what the breakdown of that is, and I thought they would still be able to use the state funds from the aborted West Palm Beach campus. It's all so strange. Why does it cost tens of millions of more dollars just to pick a site and decide what programs to put there? What resources are required to do that and why do they cost so much?
From the T-U today.
First time I've heard Brooklyn mentioned as a possibility.
QuoteThe university is currently considering three Jacksonville locations for the campus: near the fairgrounds, near Florida State College at Jacksonville and adjacent to the FIS campus.
Stated cost of the Downtown UF Campus (what that includes remains nebulous to the taxpayers) has risen from $200 million to $250 million:
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2024/01/12/cost-rises-for-university-of-florida-grad-center-in-jacksonville/72032021007/
Per the mayor, plans have gotten larger.
$185 million is already funded, including $75 million from the statement, a $50 million commitment from the city, and a really impressive $60 million in local corporate pledges led by CSX ($10 million) and the Jags ($5 million).
Donna doesn't know if the city will be asked for additional funding.
Interesting, it seems Brooklyn may be out of the running, and LaVilla may be in.
QuoteIn addition to the support from the city and private donors, UF also said it would need donated land for the future grad center. The city's financial support contains a requirement for the school to be in the downtown area.
The potential sites are in the LaVilla neighborhood that's home to the Prime Osborn Convention Center and Jacksonville Transportation Authority's regional transportation center, a second possible location north of downtown where the Florida State College of Jacksonville campus is located, and a third site in the sports complex.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on November 06, 2023, 07:30:29 AM
From the T-U today.
First time I've heard Brooklyn mentioned as a possibility.
QuoteThe university is currently considering three Jacksonville locations for the campus: near the fairgrounds, near Florida State College at Jacksonville and adjacent to the FIS campus.
That would be more in line with the smaller student numbers once shown. I could really see Brooklyn ending up with it somehow. FIS, Black Knight, Haskell, Florida Blue being all right there.. not to mention upscale apartment housing & more on the way. Fits UF's vibe more than revitalizing an area of DT. Not my ideal outcome, just my observation.
Gateway does seem like that could be a suitable outcome too. Just not sure on the timelines there with UF.
Jax's recent incompetence with downtown redevelopment may end up paying off bigtime with the UF campus. The UF/WPB project is completely off the table, so it is now Jax or nothing. The cost for land, lack of land for expansion, and cost of housing for professors/students was a big issue in West Palm Beach from what I heard. Average rent in downtown Jax is $1,500 compared to $2,750 for WPB. Even the houses on the wrong side of the tracks south of downtown WPB are going for $600-800 a square foot. In Jax you can get a house for $200 a square foot in Springfield or $250/300 a square foot in Riverside/Avondale.
As an FSU grad and Jax native it's a win win for me. Will be a huge boost to Downtown Jax and will not give UF a free pipeline to the heavy hitting Wall Street companies and 57 billionaires in Palm Beach.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on November 06, 2023, 07:30:29 AM
From the T-U today.
First time I've heard Brooklyn mentioned as a possibility.
QuoteThe university is currently considering three Jacksonville locations for the campus: near the fairgrounds, near Florida State College at Jacksonville and adjacent to the FIS campus.
I wonder if this will be the piece of property between Haskell and the YMCA. There's not much other land available unless some of the projects in our glorious "development pipeline" are going to pivot to a UF related use.
A campus along Myrtle spanning McCoys creek might be kind of cool.
Quote from: acme54321 on November 06, 2023, 03:07:34 PM
A campus along Myrtle spanning McCoys creek might be kind of cool.
Interesting that you bring this up. There is a large amount of acreage under common ownership, the former US Natural Resources complex, bounded roughly by W. Beaver, Myrtle, Eaverson and Kings Road. It may be the largest non-governmental parcel on that side of downtown.
^That place was recently leased out to a number of small manufacturing businesses. The steel fabrication business over there seems to be quite active.
$10 million from CSX!
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2023/11/10/csx-donates-10-million-to-uf-for-graduate-campus-in-jacksonville/71481295007/
I still don't see what will be so "transformative" about a small graduate campus, but it's nice to see the support this is getting. Just important to keep expectations in check.
Quote from: iMarvin on November 10, 2023, 12:56:20 PM
I still don't see what will be so "transformative" about a small graduate campus, but it's nice to see the support this is getting. Just important to keep expectations in check.
Despite all the weird politics and vague handouts, I do think this will a great thing for Jacksonville if it happens. Transformative, probably not, but a great building block, absolutely.
College rankings are subjective and arbitrary at times, but living so close to Gainesville, I think we forget that most consider the University of Florida to be one of the 5 to 10 best public universities in the country (No. 1, per the Wall Street Journal). This would be the equivalent of a UCLA, Georgia Tech, or University of Michigan setting up shop in urban Jacksonville.
Having a steady pipeline of students and graduates coming out of a Jacksonville-based UF grad school should attract more companies to Jax. And having local companies partner with the school should help keep many of those graduates in Jacksonville advancing our local economy and pushing the city forward into the future.
You just can't underestimate how important education is toward building vibrancy and attracting business. Even if it's only 1,000 students, it's filling a gap in the local market on the high-end and making us slightly more competitive with cities like Nashville, Charlotte, Atlanta, etc. that are eating our lunch in terms of higher-ed presence.
Not a silver bullet on its own, but a great part of the larger whole if it comes to fruition.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on November 10, 2023, 03:10:42 PM
Quote from: iMarvin on November 10, 2023, 12:56:20 PM
I still don't see what will be so "transformative" about a small graduate campus, but it's nice to see the support this is getting. Just important to keep expectations in check.
Despite all the weird politics and vague handouts, I do think this will a great thing for Jacksonville if it happens. Transformative, probably not, but a great building block, absolutely.
College rankings are subjective and arbitrary at times, but living so close to Gainesville, I think we forget that most consider the University of Florida to be one of the 5 to 10 best public universities in the country (No. 1, per the Wall Street Journal). This would be the equivalent of a UCLA, Georgia Tech, or University of Michigan setting up shop in urban Jacksonville.
Having a steady pipeline of students and graduates coming out of a Jacksonville-based UF grad school should attract more companies to Jax. And having local companies partner with the school should help keep many of those graduates in Jacksonville advancing our local economy and pushing the city forward into the future.
You just can't underestimate how important education is toward building vibrancy and attracting business. Even if it's only 1,000 students, it's filling a gap in the local market on the high-end and making us slightly more competitive with cities like Nashville, Charlotte, Atlanta, etc. that are eating our lunch in terms of higher-ed presence.
Not a silver bullet on its own, but a great part of the larger whole if it comes to fruition.
Just want to note, UF is already in urban Jacksonville at UF Health.
The graduate archiecture program has a DT Jax prescence as well. An idea of the number of UF students enrolled in the Jax graduate schools?
For the UF architecture program aka JaxLab, they'll only have about 10 students per semester to start off. Should grow.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on November 10, 2023, 03:10:42 PM
Quote from: iMarvin on November 10, 2023, 12:56:20 PM
I still don't see what will be so "transformative" about a small graduate campus, but it's nice to see the support this is getting. Just important to keep expectations in check.
Despite all the weird politics and vague handouts, I do think this will a great thing for Jacksonville if it happens. Transformative, probably not, but a great building block, absolutely.
College rankings are subjective and arbitrary at times, but living so close to Gainesville, I think we forget that most consider the University of Florida to be one of the 5 to 10 best public universities in the country (No. 1, per the Wall Street Journal). This would be the equivalent of a UCLA, Georgia Tech, or University of Michigan setting up shop in urban Jacksonville.
Having a steady pipeline of students and graduates coming out of a Jacksonville-based UF grad school should attract more companies to Jax. And having local companies partner with the school should help keep many of those graduates in Jacksonville advancing our local economy and pushing the city forward into the future.
You just can't underestimate how important education is toward building vibrancy and attracting business. Even if it's only 1,000 students, it's filling a gap in the local market on the high-end and making us slightly more competitive with cities like Nashville, Charlotte, Atlanta, etc. that are eating our lunch in terms of higher-ed presence.
Not a silver bullet on its own, but a great part of the larger whole if it comes to fruition.
Oh yeah, it will definitely be better than nothing. I just think graduate schools, while important, don't have as much of an impact on their cities as undergraduate schools do. Maybe not the best example but in the Bay Area, UCSF (graduate school only) is completely overshadowed by Berkeley and Stanford and their undergraduates in regards to how they've helped transform the city.
This will give the city an economic boost but I don't see a "university village" or something similar to Atlanta's Tech Square, Austin's The Drag, or Minneapolis' Dinkytown popping up anytime soon because of this.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on November 10, 2023, 03:10:42 PMFrom the T-U today.
First time I've heard Brooklyn mentioned as a possibility.
Stated cost of the Downtown UF Campus (what that includes remains nebulous to the taxpayers) has risen from $200 million to $250 million:
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2024/01/12/cost-rises-for-university-of-florida-grad-center-in-jacksonville/72032021007/
Per the mayor, the university's plans have gotten larger based on strong early support.
$185 million is already funded, including $75 million from the state, a $50 million commitment from the city, and a really impressive $60 million in local corporate pledges led by CSX ($10 million) and the Jags ($5 million).
Donna doesn't know if the city will be asked for additional funding.
Interesting, it seems Brooklyn may be out of the running, and LaVilla may be in.
QuoteIn addition to the support from the city and private donors, UF also said it would need donated land for the future grad center. The city's financial support contains a requirement for the school to be in the downtown area.
The potential sites are in the LaVilla neighborhood that's home to the Prime Osborn Convention Center and Jacksonville Transportation Authority's regional transportation center, a second possible location north of downtown where the Florida State College of Jacksonville campus is located, and a third site in the sports complex.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on January 12, 2024, 11:45:49 PM
Quote from: Ken_FSU on November 10, 2023, 03:10:42 PMFrom the T-U today.
First time I've heard Brooklyn mentioned as a possibility.
Stated cost of the Downtown UF Campus (what that includes remains nebulous to the taxpayers) has risen from $200 million to $250 million:
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2024/01/12/cost-rises-for-university-of-florida-grad-center-in-jacksonville/72032021007/
Per the mayor, the university's plans have gotten larger based on strong early support.
$185 million is already funded, including $75 million from the state, a $50 million commitment from the city, and a really impressive $60 million in local corporate pledges led by CSX ($10 million) and the Jags ($5 million).
Donna doesn't know if the city will be asked for additional funding.
Interesting, it seems Brooklyn may be out of the running, and LaVilla may be in.
QuoteIn addition to the support from the city and private donors, UF also said it would need donated land for the future grad center. The city's financial support contains a requirement for the school to be in the downtown area.
The potential sites are in the LaVilla neighborhood that's home to the Prime Osborn Convention Center and Jacksonville Transportation Authority's regional transportation center, a second possible location north of downtown where the Florida State College of Jacksonville campus is located, and a third site in the sports complex.
I don't believe the sports district is a serious contender any longer.
And different development groups are influencing where the location ends up - Lavilla or Downtown's north core.
If UF goes to the FSCJ/North Core area, could the Pearl Street development be a part of the mix? Is the Universal Marion (JEA) Building out of consideration as part of a NoCo campus? What about that vacant land surrounding the Rosa Parks Skyway station?
It's hard to figure out what UF is really doing. But combined, they'd help blend Springfield and Downtown together. That would be beneficial to the urban core overall than the other sites.
Florida universities are gonna have bigger problems than where to locate when faculty and staff see emails like this start to go out.
Horrifying.
It's one thing hearing about the laws, but seeing them in action, really does read like a prelude to fascism.
https://www.reddit.com/r/jacksonville/comments/19ey81n/got_this_email_today_from_unf/
My grandson in middle school is a few years away from making a college decision. If things don't change, I will be encouraging him, and his parents, to look outside the state of Florida, or to a private college if staying in-state is important. Another grandson is attending a private college nearby.
As a UNF alumnus, I debate with myself whether to continue donating to the university. By doing so, am I supporting the fascist rules, or would I be helping students unfortunate enough to be there?
Quote from: Charles Hunter on January 25, 2024, 10:56:52 AMAs a UNF alumnus, I debate with myself whether to continue donating to the university. By doing so, am I supporting the fascist rules, or would I be helping students unfortunate enough to be there?
I take solace in the fact that absolutely nobody that I've talked to at UNF supports this. I assume it's got to be the same at just about every other public university in Florida. I'm thinking and hoping that the universities will be around long, long after these insane, draconian laws are stricken down.
As a professor at UNF, I changed nothing to support these mandates, even if it led to forced resignation. I don't know any faculty that supports this crap in or out of the classroom. Do know they are safe in our classes. I teach to the same standards as I did when I arrived; nothing will change.
Quote from: jcjohnpaint on January 25, 2024, 11:58:10 AM
As a professor at UNF, I changed nothing to support these mandates, even if it led to forced resignation. I don't know any faculty that supports this crap in or out of the classroom. Do know they are safe in our classes. I teach to the same standards as I did when I arrived; nothing will change.
Keep fighting the good fight!
Appreciate you looking out for our youth.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on January 25, 2024, 10:36:49 AM
Florida universities are gonna have bigger problems than where to locate when faculty and staff see emails like this start to go out.
Horrifying.
It's one thing hearing about the laws, but seeing them in action, really does read like a prelude to fascism.
https://www.reddit.com/r/jacksonville/comments/19ey81n/got_this_email_today_from_unf/
Am I wrong to think that the important values these various programs highlighted will be repackaged, more or less, to be less specific/niche to fit the restrictions, but still provide similar services?
Quote from: fsu813 on January 25, 2024, 04:02:11 PM
Quote from: Ken_FSU on January 25, 2024, 10:36:49 AM
Florida universities are gonna have bigger problems than where to locate when faculty and staff see emails like this start to go out.
Horrifying.
It's one thing hearing about the laws, but seeing them in action, really does read like a prelude to fascism.
https://www.reddit.com/r/jacksonville/comments/19ey81n/got_this_email_today_from_unf/
Am I wrong to think that the important values these various programs highlighted will be repackaged, more or less, to be less specific/niche to fit the restrictions, but still provide similar services?
We can hope so.
$75 million more for UF and a plan to open offices in JEA's new building off Pearl Street this fall:
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2024/03/12/florida-legislature-back-more-money-for-uf-grad-center-in-jacksonville/72940877007/
Oh, wow.
QuoteA timeline given to the Board of Trustees showed UF would open administrative offices in the fall at the JEA headquarters building on Pearl Street in downtown and also select the permanent campus site in that time frame.
The design and planning of a permanent campus would take place in mid-2025 and UF would begin classes on the fifth floor of the Pearl Street building in fall 2025.
Site selection this fall and first classes (at the temporary site) next year? So this is like... really happening? $150 million in state money is getting serious.
How much it would take to move the entire university? Just kidding, of course...
I think a permanent location near FSCJ makes the most sense.
UF's plans in Jacksonville could expand to include a "Florida Semiconductor Institute". Also UF wants another $50 million from the city and private donors in order to build the $300 million graduate campus.
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2024/03/21/university-of-florida-eyes-jacksonville-for-semiconductor-institute/73022635007/
Goals for the campus include 1,500 students by the fifth year, and potentially 10,000 students in 20 years.
Interesting considering there's zero semiconductor companies located in North Florida. Phoenix has several Fortune 500's within a 30 minute drive with more than $15B of investment from Semi companies. Their expansion actually makes sense. Perhaps the school is targeted towards manufacturing, which also has almost zero presence in North Florida, let alone the Southeast US.
What exactly is the plan? I read the article, but there's really no industry here like it states... I'm happy to see it happening nonetheless because I've always thought that Jax has the right set of elements for wafer production.
Surely those JTA AVs will need gobs of chips.
Quote from: Jax_Developer on March 21, 2024, 10:36:10 AM
Interesting considering there's zero semiconductor companies located in North Florida. Phoenix has several Fortune 500's within a 30 minute drive with more than $15B of investment from Semi companies. Their expansion actually makes sense. Perhaps the school is targeted towards manufacturing, which also has almost zero presence in North Florida, let alone the Southeast US.
What exactly is the plan? I read the article, but there's really no industry here like it states... I'm happy to see it happening nonetheless because I've always thought that Jax has the right set of elements for wafer production.
The Nobel Laureate that invented the blue LED actually completed some of his research at UF, so there's some track record there. They're working on a big Intel campus outside of Columbus, too. I think that the uncertainty in Taiwan may be fueling a desire to decentralize production.
Here is the ultimate UF connection to semiconductors... and AI: NVIDIA. One of its 3 founders is a UF alum.
QuoteUF Announces $70 Million Artificial Intelligence Partnership with NVIDIA
UF will house the fastest AI supercomputer in higher education
The University of Florida has announced a public-private partnership with NVIDIA that will catapult UF's research strength to address some of the world's most formidable challenges, create unprecedented access to AI training and tools for underrepresented communities, and build momentum for transforming the future of the workforce.
The initiative is anchored by a $50 million gift — $25 million from UF alumnus Chris Malachowsky and $25 million in hardware, software, training and services from NVIDIA, the Silicon Valley-based technology company he cofounded and a world leader in AI and accelerated computing.
Along with an additional $20 million investment from UF, the initiative will create an AI-centric data center that houses the world's fastest AI supercomputer in higher education. Working closely with NVIDIA, UF will boost the capabilities of its existing supercomputer, HiPerGator, with the recently announced NVIDIA DGX SuperPOD™ architecture. This will give faculty and students within and beyond UF the tools to apply AI across a multitude of areas to improve lives, bolster industry, and create economic growth across the state....
https://www.uff.ufl.edu/your-impact/uf-announces-70-million-artificial-intelligence-partnership-nvidia/
Thanks for sharing Jax! Had no idea. Still somewhat curious to me as to why. They don't manufacture any of their own chips, which is where Jacksonville has the ability to enter the game. Nvidia isn't unique in that way, but nonetheless, removes the most likely role that Jax could play with the semi industry.
Buckeye, yes the CHIPS act is one of the largest government funded private investment bills. The main locations for these Fabs are: Phoenix, Texas (Austin area), and the Northeast (NY, NH). Unless Phoenix is able to attract talent from Taiwan, the ability for even the largest & most advanced fabs in the US to boule & manufacture the most advanced chips, is extremely unlikely. The skilled labor involved in advanced semis is more complex than any manufacturing process in the world.
The US is at least 5 years, maybe 10, behind Taiwan in this regard, and any projects slated to begin now are long 20-30 year plans to catch up. The labor component is so crucial. UF needs to attract top tier talent. I know the perfect local guy for this but he's retired!
Quote from: Jax_Developer on March 22, 2024, 08:40:40 AM
Buckeye, yes the CHIPS act is one of the largest government funded private investment bills. The main locations for these Fabs are: Phoenix, Texas (Austin area), and the Northeast (NY, NH). Unless Phoenix is able to attract talent from Taiwan, the ability for even the largest & most advanced fabs in the US to boule & manufacture the most advanced chips, is extremely unlikely. The skilled labor involved in advanced semis is more complex than any manufacturing process in the world.
The US is at least 5 years, maybe 10, behind Taiwan in this regard, and any projects slated to begin now are long 20-30 year plans to catch up. The labor component is so crucial. UF needs to attract top tier talent. I know the perfect local guy for this but he's retired!
Taiwan's largest chipmaker, TSMC, has actually been working on a Phoenix plant, too. Although I understand that there have been delays recently.
One thing north Florida also has going for it is water access. Chip production is water intensive from my understanding. The chip makers in Arizona have to go to great lengths to recycle water because of the complex water rights situation. Definitely less of an issue here than some of the western states. It's a long-term play, but who knows?
Quote from: Fallen Buckeye on March 22, 2024, 12:44:21 PM
Quote from: Jax_Developer on March 22, 2024, 08:40:40 AM
Buckeye, yes the CHIPS act is one of the largest government funded private investment bills. The main locations for these Fabs are: Phoenix, Texas (Austin area), and the Northeast (NY, NH). Unless Phoenix is able to attract talent from Taiwan, the ability for even the largest & most advanced fabs in the US to boule & manufacture the most advanced chips, is extremely unlikely. The skilled labor involved in advanced semis is more complex than any manufacturing process in the world.
The US is at least 5 years, maybe 10, behind Taiwan in this regard, and any projects slated to begin now are long 20-30 year plans to catch up. The labor component is so crucial. UF needs to attract top tier talent. I know the perfect local guy for this but he's retired!
Taiwan's largest chipmaker, TSMC, has actually been working on a Phoenix plant, too. Although I understand that there have been delays recently.
One thing north Florida also has going for it is water access. Chip production is water intensive from my understanding. The chip makers in Arizona have to go to great lengths to recycle water because of the complex water rights situation. Definitely less of an issue here than some of the western states. It's a long-term play, but who knows?
Right, TSMC is delayed due to skilled labor shortages. Intel too. Intel's plant is the first mega plant to open and it is at a fraction of capacity. Micron in NY has a 10+ year scale up, mainly due to labor. Although Taiwanese companies are opening up shops in the US, that doesn't mean they are moving their most advanced manufacturing over. Labor included in that. It's somewhat of a national defense issue. So these US plants are really 'going' to facilitate larger nm chips than whatever is cutting edge at that time. Hence why the push towards semi education in PHX has been such a focus. It is a very dire and evident need. That same need isn't as evident here is my only point.
I have had a conversation in the past about trying to get semi manufacturing in Florida. The issue is labor talent here as well. It's very much a chicken & egg conversation. The only issue being that we have no companies at all here. Semiconductor businesses have had satellite offices in PHX for decades. It takes a ton of start up capital to get the ball rolling. To me, it's a risky play that could pay off. Time will tell.
Also something to mention is that other countries are well aware of this production issue as well, and the competition in this market will be extreme in the next decade. The industry is set up for big business, with economies being realized in mega factories (aka Taiwan rn).
As for the water, they are recycling the same water over & over again through purification. Agreed though that we have lots of it! Ultimately, the labor pool is their largest variable cost and the fabs are centered around keeping that as low as possible.
Quote from: Jax_Developer on March 22, 2024, 08:40:40 AM
Thanks for sharing Jax! Had no idea. Still somewhat curious to me as to why. They don't manufacture any of their own chips, which is where Jacksonville has the ability to enter the game. Nvidia isn't unique in that way, but nonetheless, removes the most likely role that Jax could play with the semi industry.
If NVIDIA wanted to start manufacturing its own chips, and not just design and distribute them, this would, perhaps, be an opportune time for them to build a plant in the U.S. Both due to their own booming business and to get support from the Feds.
To add, given the 4x rise in their stock price to a $2.3 trillion company, they would easily have the capital to spend billions (+ anything the Feds might kick in) for a U.S. plant. Whether they want to do that, and if so, if they would put it in Northeast Florida, is a whole other question ;D.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on March 22, 2024, 02:10:22 PM
Quote from: Jax_Developer on March 22, 2024, 08:40:40 AM
Thanks for sharing Jax! Had no idea. Still somewhat curious to me as to why. They don't manufacture any of their own chips, which is where Jacksonville has the ability to enter the game. Nvidia isn't unique in that way, but nonetheless, removes the most likely role that Jax could play with the semi industry.
If NVIDIA wanted to start manufacturing its own chips, and not just design and distribute them, this would, perhaps, be an opportune time for them to build a plant in the U.S. Both due to their own booming business and to get support from the Feds.
To add, given the 4x rise in their stock price to a $2.3 trillion company, they would easily have the capital to spend billions (+ anything the Feds might kick in) for a U.S. plant. Whether they want to do that, and if so, if they would put it in Northeast Florida, is a whole other question ;D.
Never say never, but the task is surely monumental! TSMC has made it their mission to out compete any semi producer on nano manufacturing. Nvidia needs the very best for their packaging! Hard to deviate from. The educational background for these processes is extremely intense. There's no one university that will address that skill gap. The greater silicon valley couldn't do it. The generation gap is so much smaller than like 10 years ago. There will likely be a new technology that comes around (changing the manufacturing process entirely) before we catch up meaningfully.
That's why I go back to the business presence. Is Nvidia opening an office here as well? It just seems out of place without the business community to support it. I obviously want it to happen nonetheless ;)
The CHIPS Act that was to bring and incentivize all these plants was loaded with major DEI requirements and that is one big thing, if not THE thing stalling these plants. Look it up.
That's called "strings attached" and "poison pill".
https://thehill.com/opinion/4517470-dei-killed-the-chips-act/
I suppose the large crowd on here who thinks DeSantis has killed higher education simply because he doesn't want woke ideology taking over taxpayer funded higher education will think the above is hogwash and super biased and full of crap, but again it just signifies the insane rift between people on my side of this issue and people on the other side of this issue.
It's a war of information and between ideologies. I think the evidence backing my side and the above thoughts on the CHIPs Act and its failures speak for themselves. We can all see what's going on with our own eyes, as we all have our own personal anecdotes down at the personal level that only filters up to the macro level, and we can all see that.
Off topic, I just saw this chain and decided to chime in because I'm freaking tired of seeing the collapse of western civilization occur all around us, a collapse issued with funding from our own hard earned and paid tax money. It's very aggravating. We can't simply have merit anymore and everything must be dumbed down. Instead of lifting people up and helping them achieve, which does involve personal accountability, we are penalizing performance and hard working people, to "equalize" people in a downward fashion rather than an upward. It's the truth, and that's why our CHIPs Act is a failure.
I'm not sure what... all of that had to do with UF and the state's proposal, but okay, I'll engage with this in good faith.
I would first note that the CHIPS and Science Act was passed by a bipartisan majority of both the House and Senate, including the now-President of UF Ben Sasse. I don't think Mitch McConnell, Roy Blunt, and Roger Wicker are agents of some woke agenda.
This op-ed makes a lot of assertions that somehow every roadblock encountered by a chipmaker while developing an American supply chain is the result of some kind of diversity mandate, but doesn't really provide any evidence to support that. A big part of what they do have evidence for in this op-ed is requirements imposed by Buy America mandates, which don't have much of anything to do with diversity and were similarly imposed by the Trump Administration (the U2C is a glaring local example of these federally-imposed limitations).
Now, it does appear that chipmakers are considering a range of options that aren't exclusively American, and I actually agree that we should probably waive some of the NEPA limits for things like microchip fabs and the clean energy infrastructure needed to power them so that these important and valuable projects can happen faster. But it doesn't make much sense to cast essentially all of the blame for setbacks with a law that's now eighteen months old on some kind of diversity boogeyman. There's not evidence presented in this op-ed or elsewhere to support that claim.
But let's suppose you're right. If the federal incentives are so bogged down by DEI mandates alone that chipmakers would rather go anywhere else, then Governor DeSantis should be able to offer a pretty competitive alternative with no federal strings attached, right? South Carolina, Tennessee, Kansas, and Texas all managed to do it for automobile and plane manufacturing, and last I heard Florida has about $13 billion in state reserves. Call up TSMC or Intel or Samsung or NVIDIA and offer 3 or 4 billion in state incentives for a new fab in Jacksonville, no NEPA, no DEI, import whoever they want to build and work at it. If you're correct that this is all ideological, they'll take that deal, right? Could even put it at the old power plant by the port, plenty of space there and access to cooling water.
But I'd also note that this op-ed was posted on March 7th. Intel announced this week that they're pretty happy (https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/news/us-chips-act-intel-direct-funding.html#gs.647062) with the $8.5 billion in grants, $11 billion in loans and $25 billion in tax credits the CHIPS Act is now awarding them for facilities in Ohio, Arizona, New Mexico, and Oregon. This doesn't strike me as a company so fed up with diversity that they're "quietly giving up on America" as the op-ed declares.
Anyway, hopefully the state only needs another $20-25 million from the city to get the UF campus built, and not too much more for this Semiconductor Institute. I remember while at UF hearing about the big investments being made in AI since the NVIDIA cofounder went there, so it'd be nice to see some of that growth come to Jax.
^^^^One definite thing I will agree with you on is that DeSantis/Florida shouldn't have a problem attracting big operations like Texas has, except Florida historically absolutely fails and sucks wind on incentives. Florida has never been able to really compete with Georgia, Tennessee, Texas, etc on attracting big relocations or big operations. And it's a shame.
Similarly, I wish our own city/Chamber focus would be on piling up big incentives to lure a relocation of the next 2 Fidelities, and bring them downtown, rather than piecemeal small incentives here and there for warehouse jobs and relatively large incentives for individual apartment projects. We are constantly going after the end product (eg downtown apartments) without trying to attract the root cause that can naturally get us there (a big downtown high paying jobs creator/dominant industry).
The biggest hurdle to Florida is our perception as being a retirement state. Jacksonville is the only big city in Florida with a legit history in various industries. Most of the state lacks skilled labor for jobs like tech & finance relative to those states you named. For whatever reason, that's just how it is. Miami seems to be changing that as we know. Tampa/St. Pete has a solid banking base. Jacksonville just doesn't have the skilled labor influx like those two other regions.
UF has the ability to change that with them being a much more prestigious university now than 20 or 30 years ago... when today's industry leaders were being educated. You are just not going to attract Fortune 500 jobs without the educational system, or labor influx, to support it (Also why there's a push for the greater UF system to grow in size & prestige).
The CHIP's act will be modified.. after all it's intended to be legislation that will last 10+ years. What DeSantis/Florida would do if they were smart, is to create defined programs that compound the CHIP's act. You just aren't going to attract Fortune 500 tech companies without DEI being involved. It's ultimately a skilled labor issue, and any industry expert would agree. It will take a few "college generations" to make a meaningful difference. There's also something like $200B ($50B in PHX I looked up) in chip projects over the next 10 years... to think there's a labor shortage in general, isn't a crazy statement relative to other professions.
So... Nvidia Satellite Office in DT next to a UF Semi Grad School makes a lot of sense to me if they are meaningfully involved in the school's success. That would have a greater chance of starting any domino effect than any existing corporation in our market.
Quote from: simms3 on March 22, 2024, 08:08:38 PM
I suppose the large crowd on here who thinks DeSantis has killed higher education simply because he doesn't want woke ideology taking over taxpayer funded higher education will think the above is hogwash and super biased and full of crap, but again it just signifies the insane rift between people on my side of this issue and people on the other side of this issue.
Yes.
Quote from: marcuscnelson on March 22, 2024, 10:36:21 PM
I'm not sure what... all of that had to do with UF and the state's proposal, but okay, I'll engage with this in good faith.
It doesn't. Just another insertion of identity politics into the discussion.
Quote from: marcuscnelson link=topic=37545.msg528221#msg528221 date=1711161381/
I would first note that the CHIPS and Science Act was passed by a bipartisan majority of both the House and Senate, including the now-President of UF Ben Sasse. I don't think Mitch McConnell, Roy Blunt, and Roger Wicker are agents of some woke agenda.
This op-ed makes a lot of assertions that somehow every roadblock encountered by a chipmaker while developing an American supply chain is the result of some kind of diversity mandate, but doesn't really provide any evidence to support that. A big part of what they do have evidence for in this op-ed is requirements imposed by Buy America mandates, which don't have much of anything to do with diversity and were similarly imposed by the Trump Administration (the U2C is a glaring local example of these federally-imposed limitations).
Yeah, I haven't seen any critiques of the CHIPS act, let alone the UF push, based on anti-diversity hysteria outside of right wing op eds (like this one). And that's only been brought up in like the last 2 weeks. Even the opposition to the bill from the right wingers at the time including Kevin McCarthy didn't dwell on anti-diversity language; it was about this being a gift to semiconductor companies and too much spending.
And of course the biggest critics of the bill were the Chinese government and its paid lobbyists (https://www.asiafinancial.com/china-says-us-chip-act-will-harm-supply-chain-global-trade), which indicates we're doing something right.
Quote from: marcuscnelson on March 22, 2024, 10:36:21 PM
Now, it does appear that chipmakers are considering a range of options that aren't exclusively American, and I actually agree that we should probably waive some of the NEPA limits for things like microchip fabs and the clean energy infrastructure needed to power them so that these important and valuable projects can happen faster. But it doesn't make much sense to cast essentially all of the blame for setbacks with a law that's now eighteen months old on some kind of diversity boogeyman. There's not evidence presented in this op-ed or elsewhere to support that claim.
But let's suppose you're right. If the federal incentives are so bogged down by DEI mandates alone that chipmakers would rather go anywhere else, then Governor DeSantis should be able to offer a pretty competitive alternative with no federal strings attached, right? South Carolina, Tennessee, Kansas, and Texas all managed to do it for automobile and plane manufacturing, and last I heard Florida has about $13 billion in state reserves. Call up TSMC or Intel or Samsung or NVIDIA and offer 3 or 4 billion in state incentives for a new fab in Jacksonville, no NEPA, no DEI, import whoever they want to build and work at it. If you're correct that this is all ideological, they'll take that deal, right? Could even put it at the old power plant by the port, plenty of space there and access to cooling water.
But I'd also note that this op-ed was posted on March 7th. Intel announced this week that they're pretty happy (https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/news/us-chips-act-intel-direct-funding.html#gs.647062) with the $8.5 billion in grants, $11 billion in loans and $25 billion in tax credits the CHIPS Act is now awarding them for facilities in Ohio, Arizona, New Mexico, and Oregon. This doesn't strike me as a company so fed up with diversity that they're "quietly giving up on America" as the op-ed declares.
Anyway, hopefully the state only needs another $20-25 million from the city to get the UF campus built, and not too much more for this Semiconductor Institute. I remember while at UF hearing about the big investments being made in AI since the NVIDIA cofounder went there, so it'd be nice to see some of that growth come to Jax.
100%. It's good for Florida that UF is making a play for this. We'll see what kind of investment that takes and if the deal is worth it.
Quote from: Jax_Developer on March 23, 2024, 11:28:22 AM
The biggest hurdle to Florida is our perception as being a retirement state....
....UF has the ability to change that with them being a much more prestigious university now than 20 or 30 years ago... when today's industry leaders were being educated. You are just not going to attract Fortune 500 jobs without the educational system, or labor influx, to support it (Also why there's a push for the greater UF system to grow in size & prestige).
....The CHIP's act will be modified.. after all it's intended to be legislation that will last 10+ years. What DeSantis/Florida would do if they were smart, is to create defined programs that compound the CHIP's act. You just aren't going to attract Fortune 500 tech companies without DEI being involved. It's ultimately a skilled labor issue, and any industry expert would agree. It will take a few "college generations" to make a meaningful difference. There's also something like $200B ($50B in PHX I looked up) in chip projects over the next 10 years... to think there's a labor shortage in general, isn't a crazy statement relative to other professions....
Despite Simms viewpoints, DEI and immigrants are critical to attracting big tech for the reasons JD cites. Aside from pushing back on unfounded and unjust phobias and discrimination, it is all about the labor force. The CEO of NVIDIA is a Taiwanese immigrant* and his first cousin is, interestingly, the CEO of AMD... that's the #1 and #2 chip design companies in the world.
Until DeSantis is out of office, no big tech company is likely to seriously invest in Florida. Further, UF is hampered for the same reason... the national publicity it got for firing its DEI staff is an example of the image that doesn't help UF or Florida. Add, the "punishment" DeSantis put on Disney for speaking up for DEI issues and what DEI/immigrant oriented company would want to be here?
*From Wikipedia re: NVIDIA co-founder/CEO: Jen-Hsun Huang was born in Tainan, Taiwan, in 1963. His family moved to Thailand when he was five years old; when he was nine, he and his brother were sent to the United States to live with an uncle in Tacoma, Washington. When he was ten years old, he lived in the boys dormitory with his brother at Oneida Baptist Institute while attending Oneida Elementary school in Oneida, Kentucky.[2] Several years later their parents also moved to the United States and settled in Oregon,[2] where he graduated from Aloha High School just outside Portland.[5] He skipped two years and graduated at sixteen.[2]
NVIDIA doesn't appear to be stopping at just chip design. It is expanding into AI applications, including biotech. This is another possible connection to Jax given UF Health, Mayo and MD Anderson, among others. They also have a partnership with Johnson & Johnson, which is big here with its vision division.
QuoteNvidia's AI ambitions in medicine and health care are becoming clear
Last week, Nvidia announced deals with Johnson & Johnson for use of generative AI in surgery, and with GE Healthcare to improve medical imaging. The health care developments at its 2024 GTC AI conference, — which also included the launch of roughly two dozen new AI-powered, healthcare-focused tools — demonstrate just how important medicine is to Nvidia's non-tech sector revenue opportunities in the future.
"The reason why Nvidia is so popular today is because it basically provided the plumbing and the technology for something that you could not do simply before or if you had to do something like this you would need probably several times more time, money and cost," said Raj Joshi, a technology analyst and senior vice president at Moody's Ratings. "Health care, whether it's biotechnology, chemicals, or drug discovery is a very powerful area."...
....The health care focus from Nvidia at its conference was a doubling down on an ambition it's had for a long time. During an earnings call with investors in February, Nvidia mentioned several ways its technology was being adapted for the medical field. ....
...."In healthcare, digital biology and generative AI are helping to reinvent drug discovery, surgery, medical imaging and wearable devices," said Colette Kress, Nvidia chief financial officer. "We have built deep domain expertise in healthcare over the past decade, creating the NVIDIA Clara healthcare platform and NVIDIA BioNeMo, a generative AI service to develop, customize and deploy AI foundation models for computer-aided drug discovery."....
...."It's one thing to design semiconductors and computing platforms for others to do something. But it's another thing altogether when you can build full-fledged packages of technology that you can sell to a customer," Joshi said. "Let's say if you are a biotech firm, you take the full technology from Nvidia, and you just start working on it as opposed to figuring out 'how do I use this information technology?'"...
....The health-care space is an example of how far a company that was designing gaming graphics cards a decade ago has come. "You have to give credit to them that Jensen had the foresight way back in 2012 when he saw some people actually use his graphics card at Stanford University to solve some types of mathematical problem," Joshi said. "He said, 'You know what, this can actually be used to do what is called general computing, you know, the things that we all do everyday on a normal basis.'".....
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/24/nvidias-ai-ambitions-in-medicine-and-health-care-are-becoming-clear.html
dd
No one complains louder about diversity initiatives than folks who know they could never compete if the playing field was level for everyone. At any rate, let's get this thread back on topic. I think we've all had enough of these tangents.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on March 23, 2024, 08:37:05 PM
Despite Simms viewpoints, DEI and immigrants are critical to attracting big tech for the reasons JD cites. Aside from pushing back on unfounded and unjust phobias and discrimination, it is all about the labor force. The CEO of NVIDIA is a Taiwanese immigrant* and his first cousin is, interestingly, the CEO of AMD... that's the #1 and #2 chip design companies in the world.
Until DeSantis is out of office, no big tech company is likely to seriously invest in Florida. Further, UF is hampered for the same reason... the national publicity it got for firing its DEI staff is an example of the image that doesn't help UF or Florida. Add, the "punishment" DeSantis put on Disney for speaking up for DEI issues and what DEI/immigrant oriented company would want to be here?
I haven't seen convincing evidence that DEI is a critical component of attracting big tech. UF was a well regarded school before DEI came into fashion, and it's going to continue to be despite these programs getting the boot. This brouhaha is about media getting eyeballs and politicians grandstanding. The reality is that the companies will go where they can make the most money and where they have access to the means to run their plants.
Ohio threw billions at Intel to build their plant, and they have a huge university. Phoenix basically had the same situation when Intel came to town. Growing the education component here is a great step, but the ultimate decision to move any production here will be about incentives not DEI. Wave enough money in the face of prospective professors and offer a good QOL, and we won't have any trouble getting the education component.
Personally, I have a lot to gain from DEI as a minority son of an immigrant, but I'm not a proponent. I'm all for equal opportunity, but outcomes should be based on merit instead of a quota.
Quote from: Fallen Buckeye on March 25, 2024, 04:51:07 PM
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on March 23, 2024, 08:37:05 PM
Despite Simms viewpoints, DEI and immigrants are critical to attracting big tech for the reasons JD cites. Aside from pushing back on unfounded and unjust phobias and discrimination, it is all about the labor force. The CEO of NVIDIA is a Taiwanese immigrant* and his first cousin is, interestingly, the CEO of AMD... that's the #1 and #2 chip design companies in the world.
Until DeSantis is out of office, no big tech company is likely to seriously invest in Florida. Further, UF is hampered for the same reason... the national publicity it got for firing its DEI staff is an example of the image that doesn't help UF or Florida. Add, the "punishment" DeSantis put on Disney for speaking up for DEI issues and what DEI/immigrant oriented company would want to be here?
I haven't seen convincing evidence that DEI is a critical component of attracting big tech. UF was a well regarded school before DEI came into fashion, and it's going to continue to be despite these programs getting the boot. This brouhaha is about media getting eyeballs and politicians grandstanding. The reality is that the companies will go where they can make the most money and where they have access to the means to run their plants.
Ohio threw billions at Intel to build their plant, and they have a huge university. Phoenix basically had the same situation when Intel came to town. Growing the education component here is a great step, but the ultimate decision to move any production here will be about incentives not DEI. Wave enough money in the face of prospective professors and offer a good QOL, and we won't have any trouble getting the education component.
Personally, I have a lot to gain from DEI as a minority son of an immigrant, but I'm not a proponent. I'm all for equal opportunity, but outcomes should be based on merit instead of a quota.
Florida schools didn't use quotas. Their diversity initiatives were focused on providing support and services to students of diverse backgrounds to help them succeed in their studies.
Quote from: Fallen Buckeye on March 25, 2024, 04:51:07 PM
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on March 23, 2024, 08:37:05 PM
Despite Simms viewpoints, DEI and immigrants are critical to attracting big tech for the reasons JD cites. Aside from pushing back on unfounded and unjust phobias and discrimination, it is all about the labor force. The CEO of NVIDIA is a Taiwanese immigrant* and his first cousin is, interestingly, the CEO of AMD... that's the #1 and #2 chip design companies in the world.
Until DeSantis is out of office, no big tech company is likely to seriously invest in Florida. Further, UF is hampered for the same reason... the national publicity it got for firing its DEI staff is an example of the image that doesn't help UF or Florida. Add, the "punishment" DeSantis put on Disney for speaking up for DEI issues and what DEI/immigrant oriented company would want to be here?
I haven't seen convincing evidence that DEI is a critical component of attracting big tech. UF was a well regarded school before DEI came into fashion, and it's going to continue to be despite these programs getting the boot. This brouhaha is about media getting eyeballs and politicians grandstanding. The reality is that the companies will go where they can make the most money and where they have access to the means to run their plants.
Ohio threw billions at Intel to build their plant, and they have a huge university. Phoenix basically had the same situation when Intel came to town. Growing the education component here is a great step, but the ultimate decision to move any production here will be about incentives not DEI. Wave enough money in the face of prospective professors and offer a good QOL, and we won't have any trouble getting the education component.
Personally, I have a lot to gain from DEI as a minority son of an immigrant, but I'm not a proponent. I'm all for equal opportunity, but outcomes should be based on merit instead of a quota.
It really doesn't matter what we think of DEI. What matters is what the work force that companies are trying to recruit thinks of places to work that work against DEI. The issue is that when DEI is attacked, people who are minorities. LGBTQ or immigrants often take it that their kind isn't welcomed in those communities. It is as much about the optics as it is the reality. And, no amount of incentives can make up for the inability to build a properly skilled workforce.*
No different than when the GOP holds up a decades old rape case by an immigrant as somehow representative of millions of immigrants. When, statistics show that U.S. citizens commit crimes at far higher rates than immigrants. The GOP is playing to optics, not reality. Turnabout is fair play.
*In a lot of states, incentives are really a reduction or giveback of taxes that are higher than Florida so the incentives may not really be that much more than coming to Florida, a lower tax sate. Smart companies look at the total package (e.g. land, taxes, labor, utilities, logistics, natural disasters, insurance, suppliers/customers, quality of life, educational options, etc.), not just some incentives that are mostly one-time and may be a relative fraction of the cost, long term, of operating in an area. By example, if they have to pay higher ongoing rates to attract labor, that could quickly wipe out the value of incentives.
It appears tomorrow there will be a vote per the Business Journal. Not sure if this is the final vote, but a vote nonetheless!
Quote from: Tacachale on March 25, 2024, 05:41:21 PM
Florida schools didn't use quotas. Their diversity initiatives were focused on providing support and services to students of diverse backgrounds to help them succeed in their studies.
Sorry, I wasn't very clear there. I meant the quotas in regards to the CHIPs act with hiring certain numbers of women or minority owned companies. I'm comfortable with something akin to the Rooney rule in the NFL, but hiring should be based on merit.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on March 25, 2024, 07:05:51 PM
It really doesn't matter what we think of DEI. What matters is what the work force that companies are trying to recruit thinks of places to work that work against DEI. The issue is that when DEI is attacked, people who are minorities. LGBTQ or immigrants often take it that their kind isn't welcomed in those communities. It is as much about the optics as it is the reality. And, no amount of incentives can make up for the inability to build a properly skilled workforce.*
No different than when the GOP holds up a decades old rape case by an immigrant as somehow representative of millions of immigrants. When, statistics show that U.S. citizens commit crimes at far higher rates than immigrants. The GOP is playing to optics, not reality. Turnabout is fair play.
*In a lot of states, incentives are really a reduction or giveback of taxes that are higher than Florida so the incentives may not really be that much more than coming to Florida, a lower tax sate. Smart companies look at the total package (e.g. land, taxes, labor, utilities, logistics, natural disasters, insurance, suppliers/customers, quality of life, educational options, etc.), not just some incentives that are mostly one-time and may be a relative fraction of the cost, long term, of operating in an area. By example, if they have to pay higher ongoing rates to attract labor, that could quickly wipe out the value of incentives.
Like I said, I don't see the evidence that what you're saying about DEI being essential to attracting companies. I was a bit reductionist in how I framed it, but ultimately the decision to invest is primarily about dollars and cents. As a whole, Florida has a relatively favorable business environment which is why its economic growth is outpacing the national average.
This initiative to bring the semiconductor institute is a great move to position north Florida for future growth, and I think that's something we can all agree on.
Bringing this conversation back to UF in Jax... 500 graduate students to start and 1500 in five years would be fairly helpful to downtown!
https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2024/03/27/board-of-governors-approves-uf-plans-for-jax.html
I'm very interested in seeing what campus site they ultimately select.
You ain't the only one!
Why isn't the Universal Marion (most recent ex-JEA HQ) a viable alternative?
Something interesting to note is that the semiconductor institute is a separate deal to the Grad campus. So we could potentially have both being slotted downtown... which combined would be largest 'business-like' investment DT, I think ever? (If you take inflation out of the equation). Someone fact check that, but it would appear that UF Grad school is requiring $300M, with the Semi Institute requiring another $100M+. Crazy if true!
Source: (https://innovate.research.ufl.edu/2024/03/22/uf-florida-semiconductor-institute/)
Quote from: Charles Hunter on March 27, 2024, 10:34:54 PM
Why isn't the Universal Marion (most recent ex-JEA HQ) a viable alternative?
UF needs a min of 10 acres, and ideally 12-15 acres, in order to have enough land to continue to grow the campus. They consider this a 100 year investment for them, and want to make sure they are set up in one place for the next 100 years.
The Fairgrounds seems like the easiest option if they need 10+ acres. Plus it's free! lol
All three sites are +10 acres. Of the three, the fairgrounds is also the most isolated and disconnected from complimentary uses. All three locations have their pros and cons.
Does UF establishing a permanent graduate campus in DT Jax have any impact on the Florida-Georgia game occurring in Jax? I could see Kirby Smart, who has already said he would like the game out of Jax, argue that it is not a neutral site game anymore.
The University of Georgia has a wing of its College of Business in Atlanta (https://www.terry.uga.edu/about/visit-terry/atlanta/) so that wouldn't be usable either. Unless they're going for the back-and-forth between campuses that doesn't seem like a fair argument.
Quote from: thelakelander on March 28, 2024, 09:46:52 AM
All three sites are +10 acres. Of the three, the fairgrounds is also the most isolated and disconnected from complimentary uses. All three locations have their pros and cons.
Yeah but I'd hope that the Convention Center can actually be used as a train station once again so I don't feel like that's a comparable option. FSCJ is a good option too.
Quote from: marcuscnelson on March 28, 2024, 10:18:45 AM
The University of Georgia has a wing of its College of Business in Atlanta (https://www.terry.uga.edu/about/visit-terry/atlanta/) so that wouldn't be usable either. Unless they're going for the back-and-forth between campuses that doesn't seem like a fair argument.
Good to know, it probably won't matter then.
Quote from: Jax_Developer on March 28, 2024, 10:27:39 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on March 28, 2024, 09:46:52 AM
All three sites are +10 acres. Of the three, the fairgrounds is also the most isolated and disconnected from complimentary uses. All three locations have their pros and cons.
Yeah but I'd hope that the Convention Center can actually be used as a train station once again so I don't feel like that's a comparable option. FSCJ is a good option too.
The funny thing about the Convention Center site is if you want Brightline, having a $300 million college campus adjacent to it and in LaVilla helps. As of now, downtown and LaVilla could use all the new infill development they can get. The big question with that site is to work with the railroads first to identify and carve out what they'll need. That option also forces some real decision making regarding the future relocation of the convention center. The negative side is that if people are concerned about gentrification, it will present some real challenges in LaVilla, the remaining original Brooklyn community and North Riverside, considering it will be all connected with the McCoys Creek project.
The FSCJ site is also pretty intriguing. State and Union is a huge overlooked gold mine in the urban core. Filling in all those blocks between downtown and Springfield really pulls two urban core districts together. There is also some potential strong syerngy with that area being a dense district of higher learning, along with its proximity to UF Health Jacksonville.
Quote from: thelakelander on March 28, 2024, 11:43:48 AM
Quote from: Jax_Developer on March 28, 2024, 10:27:39 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on March 28, 2024, 09:46:52 AM
All three sites are +10 acres. Of the three, the fairgrounds is also the most isolated and disconnected from complimentary uses. All three locations have their pros and cons.
Yeah but I'd hope that the Convention Center can actually be used as a train station once again so I don't feel like that's a comparable option. FSCJ is a good option too.
The funny thing about the Convention Center site is if you want Brightline, having a $300 million college campus adjacent to it and in LaVilla helps. As of now, downtown and LaVilla could use all the new infill development they can get. The big question with that site is to work with the railroads first to identify and carve out what they'll need. That option also forces some real decision making regarding the future relocation of the convention center. The negative side is that if people are concerned about gentrification, it will present some real challenges in LaVilla, the remaining original Brooklyn community and North Riverside, considering it will be all connected with the McCoys Creek project.
The FSCJ site is also pretty intriguing. State and Union is a huge overlooked gold mine in the urban core. Filling in all those blocks between downtown and Springfield really pulls two urban core districts together. There is also some potential strong syerngy with that area being a dense district of higher learning, along with its proximity to UF Health Jacksonville.
I agree the campus would be complimentary to the station. To me the train station is still a pipe dream, and I feel like you would need to know the train station is happening when you begin to plan any campus improvements so you don't interfere with anything vital.
Yeah I just simply meant that the fairgrounds is the "easiest" because it's almost vacant now with structured parking nearby. I think all of these spots have great potential to connect the areas improving around it. I would 100% like to see a connected & vibrant Main St.
The station isn't a pipe dream! However, we'll screw up the opportunity if we treat and approach it like one.
Quote from: thelakelander on March 28, 2024, 12:26:35 PM
The station isn't a pipe dream! However, we'll screw up the opportunity if we treat and approach it like one.
It makes me feel better to know you believe that! Genuinely.
Quote from: Alex Sifakis on March 27, 2024, 10:30:06 PM
You ain't the only one!
I am guessing if they chose FSCJ's campus it would be a nice boost to your Gateway project 8).
Could the former Rivers Edge property on the Southbank be a dark horse in this race? At 34 acres, it also has the land needed. Doesn't look like much activity is happening otherwise either.
^Rivers Edge isn't in the picture.
Quote from: thelakelander on March 28, 2024, 11:43:48 AM
Quote from: Jax_Developer on March 28, 2024, 10:27:39 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on March 28, 2024, 09:46:52 AM
All three sites are +10 acres. Of the three, the fairgrounds is also the most isolated and disconnected from complimentary uses. All three locations have their pros and cons.
Yeah but I'd hope that the Convention Center can actually be used as a train station once again so I don't feel like that's a comparable option. FSCJ is a good option too.
The funny thing about the Convention Center site is if you want Brightline, having a $300 million college campus adjacent to it and in LaVilla helps. As of now, downtown and LaVilla could use all the new infill development they can get. The big question with that site is to work with the railroads first to identify and carve out what they'll need. That option also forces some real decision making regarding the future relocation of the convention center. The negative side is that if people are concerned about gentrification, it will present some real challenges in LaVilla, the remaining original Brooklyn community and North Riverside, considering it will be all connected with the McCoys Creek project.
The FSCJ site is also pretty intriguing. State and Union is a huge overlooked gold mine in the urban core. Filling in all those blocks between downtown and Springfield really pulls two urban core districts together. There is also some potential strong syerngy with that area being a dense district of higher learning, along with its proximity to UF Health Jacksonville.
This makes the most sense to me, combined with new developments on Main Street in Springfield (and potentially more housing along Main Street), the pending Gateway Jax district, and the skyway station. This could connect Springfield to Downtown nicely.
I think Toronto is a great example of how its downtown connects with the Yorkville area just to its north, with the University of Toronto straddling the two neighborhoods.
https://www.gainesville.com/story/news/education/2024/07/18/ben-sasse-resigns-after-less-than-two-years-as-uf-president/74463802007/
FAMU's president also resigned last week:
https://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/local/famu-news/2024/07/16/community-leaders-react-to-resignation-of-famu-president-larry-robinson/74381289007/
Governor Ron strikes again
Sasse's resignation is related to his wife's health deteriorating.
Robinson's is cited in the linked article as most likely due to the donation controversy, amid other recent scandals, that has strained his relationship with the board of trustees.
I wonder if the next UF president will be committed to completing the promised Jax campus. I suppose with funding committed from the Governor and Legislature, there might be no turning back. However, the mission of the campus has always been a bit ambiguous/murky so not sure someone else might see a reason to pull back from it and/or kill it. Clearly, the president of UF, whoever it will be, needs to be all in or I don't see how it goes forward.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on July 19, 2024, 01:31:59 PM
I wonder if the next UF president will be committed to completing the promised Jax campus. I suppose with funding committed from the Governor and Legislature, there might be no turning back. However, the mission of the campus has always been a bit ambiguous/murky so not sure someone else might see a reason to pull back from it and/or kill it. Clearly, the president of UF, whoever it will be, needs to be all in or I don't see how it goes forward.
Considering Mori Hosseini is the chair of the UF Board of Trustees and the Jax campus is his pet project, I'm sure maintaining current plans will play a big part in the selection process
QuoteThe University of Florida board could make a long-awaited decision this week on selecting a site for a planned graduate campus in the downtown Jacksonville area.
UF and the city have been in talks over the past two years about the university building a graduate campus in Jacksonville financed by a mix of state, city and private funding.
When the UF board of trustees meets for a two-day meeting starting Thursday, the board's Committee on Governance, Government Relations and Internal Affairs will vote on making a recommendation to the full board for a final vote the following day on the site.
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2024/12/09/university-of-florida-board-will-pick-jacksonville-grad-campus-site/76822873007/