(https://photos.moderncities.com/photos/i-Nzw69VJ/0/L/i-Nzw69VJ-L.jpg)
QuoteA look at the MOSH Genesis concept review presentation planned for the Downtown Investment Authority's (DIA) December 21st board meeting. Let us know what you think of the latest concept and site plan.
Read More: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/renderings-mosh-genesis/
I think this building design is something iconic that we haven't seen in our city.
I wish they would just take down the remainder of the Hart Bridge ramps to give this more visibility on Bay Street.
It looks really good.
I think the city dropped the ball with the design of Bay Street where it meets A. Philip Randolph Boulevard (APR). As a whole, I'd argue that the connection between A.Philip Randolph Park, the Eastside, arena and ballpark is just as important from a pedestrian scale perspective as the long-desired link between the Northbank and TIAA Bank Field. In fact, it's easier to make since people and complementary uses already exist. As such, how the MOSH property interacts with APR is significant and should not be ignored.
As for the MOSH building itself, it looks good. I like that the cafe is also designed to be open to the public and interact with spaces outside of the building. That's very important for further activating the riverfront and riverwalk.
I looked at the DIA Agenda Package https://dia.coj.net/Meetings/DIA-Meetings/2022/DIA-Board-Meeting-December-2022/20221221_DIA-Board-Meeting-Agenda-Packet.aspx The MOSH section starts on Page 91 of the Agenda.
I agree with the staff report (begins Page 113) recommendations, especially for the roof (pages 121-122)
Quote
Staff Recommendation
Staff has reviewed the proposed site plan of the Museum Parcel, concentrating on the following:
activation for the Urban Open Space area where the parcel abuts the right-of-way; activation of the
building envelope and its interface with the exterior parcels; the design of the building envelope (where
provided) and access points to the building. If DIA finds that the site plan is sufficient for approval, then
Staff recommends the following conditions:
1. As designed, the museum structure contains a habitable rooftop feature that only covers a small
portion of the roof. Staff finds that the expansive flat roof is underutilized in the current design.
Opportunities exist for additional activation or programming on the rooftop, especially when
aerial images of the Sports and Entertainment District are frequent and desirable. The City's future
resilience initiatives contemplate using green roofs as adaptation features; a green roof would be
considered activation.
2. Considering the function of the overall site, the property essentially has two frontages – one along
Bay Street and one on the St. Johns River. As such, access points to the building from the
streetscape, Hogan's Creek, and St. Johns River should be connected and prominent. Generally,
the building envelope along the waterfront (creek and river) and Bay Street should be visually
interesting and welcoming. Acting as a wrap-around porch, these elevations could provide an
opportunity for the design of the museum to "spill over" into the site.
3. The site plan shows the Hixon Exhibit space located along the west elevation. The enclosed,
exterior exhibition space appears to occupy approximately half of the ground floor on the
elevation that fronts Hogan's Creek and the St. Johns River. As such, MOSH should consider
relocating the enclosed space to the west side of the structure, near the southeastern corner of
the building. If relocation is not possible, the enclosure should offer enough transparency so as
not to obscure waterfront views nor allow the structure to "turn its back" to the waterfront.
4. The continuous right-turn lane from Bay Street into the bus drop-off loop should be removed as
it impedes the multi-use pedestrian path along Bay Street. Entrance to the site will only be via A
Philip Randolph Boulevard.
...
MOSH shall advise its design team to design the museum facility and the
surrounding park space comprising the Property with the aspirational goal of
creating an iconic venue. Iconic means that the facility will be visually dramatic,
unique, and memorable. It will be designed with the intent to draw visitors from
around the Southeast Region and serve as an important and enduring landmark
Great design, though I preferred the previous renderings a bit more, particularly the cafe and seating overlooking the river.
I'm a little confused by the footprint though.
Wasn't MOSH Genesis supposed to have 130,000 square feet of exhibition space?
Unless I'm reading the site plan wrong, I'm seeing 54,000 sf, which is about the same as MOSH has now.
Good point, KenFSU
From the MOSH website in June 2022 - https://themosh.org/mosh-genesis/ there is a link to download a MOSH Genisis brochure.
On page 5 of the brochure this, under the headline Expansion and Reorientation is
Quote
The MOSH Genesis design will expand the Museum's capacity from
75,000 square feet in our current building to an estimated 130,000
square feet.
I like it.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on December 16, 2022, 03:10:31 PM
Great design, though I preferred the previous renderings a bit more, particularly the cafe and seating overlooking the river.
I'm a little confused by the footprint though.
Wasn't MOSH Genesis supposed to have 130,000 square feet of exhibition space?
Unless I'm reading the site plan wrong, I'm seeing 54,000 sf, which is about the same as MOSH has now.
Based on the quote from Charles, 54,000 sf is quite a bit less, about a third, from the 75,000 sf they have now, so I wouldn't say it's about the same.
Once again, it appears Jacksonville may underdeliver on its promises. Unless there are future phases planned, it looks like there may be no real opportunity to grow this institution at this location. That would be a big mistake. Is this building master planned for expansion? Is the building bigger than it appears? Are they already cutting corners, like Daily's, by backing off the original design?
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on December 16, 2022, 09:24:57 PM
Quote from: Ken_FSU on December 16, 2022, 03:10:31 PM
Great design, though I preferred the previous renderings a bit more, particularly the cafe and seating overlooking the river.
I'm a little confused by the footprint though.
Wasn't MOSH Genesis supposed to have 130,000 square feet of exhibition space?
Unless I'm reading the site plan wrong, I'm seeing 54,000 sf, which is about the same as MOSH has now.
Based on the quote from Charles, 54,000 sf is quite a bit less, about a third, from the 75,000 sf they have now, so I wouldn't say it's about the same.
Once again, it appears Jacksonville may underdeliver on its promises. Unless there are future phases planned, it looks like there may be no real opportunity to grow this institution at this location. That would be a big mistake. Is this building master planned for expansion? Is the building bigger than it appears? Are they already cutting corners, like Daily's, by backing off the original design?
Who knows. Just let out one big (sigh) and hope for the best.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on December 16, 2022, 09:24:57 PM
Quote from: Ken_FSU on December 16, 2022, 03:10:31 PM
Great design, though I preferred the previous renderings a bit more, particularly the cafe and seating overlooking the river.
I'm a little confused by the footprint though.
Wasn't MOSH Genesis supposed to have 130,000 square feet of exhibition space?
Unless I'm reading the site plan wrong, I'm seeing 54,000 sf, which is about the same as MOSH has now.
Based on the quote from Charles, 54,000 sf is quite a bit less, about a third, from the 75,000 sf they have now, so I wouldn't say it's about the same.
Once again, it appears Jacksonville may underdeliver on its promises. Unless there are future phases planned, it looks like there may be no real opportunity to grow this institution at this location. That would be a big mistake. Is this building master planned for expansion? Is the building bigger than it appears? Are they already cutting corners, like Daily's, by backing off the original design?
130,000 square feet of exhibition space or 130,000 square feet of total floor space?
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on December 16, 2022, 09:24:57 PM
Unless there are future phases planned, it looks like there may be no real opportunity to grow this institution at this location. That would be a big mistake. Is this building master planned for expansion?
The eastern portion of the site plan is designated for future expansion.
Wasn't the reason for moving to the new location for more space?
Quote from: jcjohnpaint on December 18, 2022, 09:01:05 AM
Wasn't the reason for moving to the new location for more space?
It was.
MOSH said they were losing out on major national travel exhibitions because the existing facility only has 54,000 square feet of usable exhibition space (out of their total square footage of 77,000) and proposed a 130,000 square foot replacement facility.
Which is why it surprised me to see 54,000 square feet of usable exhibition space for the new facility.
If you compare the original Genesis renderings from earlier this year to the newest set, it seems that they've downsized the physical museum quite a bit. It doesn't expand as far out, and it looks like they cut the third floor exhibition space out entirely.
Comparing the footprint to Intuition, which you can see for context in the overhead on the other side of Bay Street, I don't know, just doesn't seem that much bigger than the old space to me.
(https://snipboard.io/fnQy2U.jpg)
Tampa's MOSH equivalent is 190,000 square feet. Frost Science Museum in Miami is 250,000 square feet. Orlando Science Center is five-floors, two theaters, and 200,000 square feet. That's not all exhibition space, but the term "World Class" feels like a stretch with what's currently proposed.
Mentioned this previously, but I also think it was a mistake to move the cafe and public terrace from the rear riverside to the front Bay Street side. I'm all for activating the street, but why would a patron prefer views of that awful ramp and what's effectively highway, versus adding the cafe with river views on the backside as an amenity for the riverwalk.
Here's the cafe view from the old renderings (I don't see the ramps pictured in the new set):
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Still can't help but think of how cool the original plan was, expanding the museum in its current location and integrating it with Friendship Park and the restaurant Related is doing across from the park. Combined with whatever happens at the Landing, it would have provided strong anchors on both sides of the Main Street Bridge.
(https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/sites/default/files/231121_standard.png)
MOSH is obviously free to do whatever they want, but in my opinion, when the city is kicking in $20 million to move the museum from one of the most strategically important locations downtown to the backside of an on-ramp, it feels like a bit of a continuation of this constant zero-sum game we play as a city with our downtown, tossing $20 million here and $20 million there to bulldoze spots here and relocate spots there.
Looking at pages 97-99 of the Agenda
https://dia.coj.net/Meetings/DIA-Meetings/2022/DIA-Board-Meeting-December-2022/20221221_DIA-Board-Meeting-Agenda-Packet.aspx
which shows a dotted line for "Future MOSH Building Expansion. On page 98, the first floor plan, it shows the width of the expansion (squaring off the building) is shown as 60' (sixty feet). Using that to scale the length of the expansion, I estimate about 180'- of course this is a rough estimate.
60 x 180 = 10,800, over 2 floors = 21,600 additional space. Assuming that is all exhibition space, this brings the exhibition space to 95,600 square feet (74,000 + 21,600). Still only 73% of the 130,000 discussed earlier.
I am also assuming the expansion would not include the parking level, and would be over the loading docks.
WJCT story about MOSH, with renderings in the article: https://news.wjct.org/first-coast/2022-12-21/mosh-museum-northbank-renderings
Quote
The primary goal of the MOSH Genesis plan, in association with the New York City-based Local Projects design lab, is to create an experience "unlike anything else in Jacksonville" and be a source of pride, MOSH CEO Bruce Fafard told WJCT News on Wednesday. Now a major step has been made toward its proposed 2026 opening, leaving Fafard "very appreciative" of all the efforts to get this far.
...
It named the concept MOSH Genesis, saying the exterior design was inspired by the flow of water that has played such an important role in Jacksonville's history. And it initially listed an $85 million price tag for the new museum when the DIA board supported the land lease a year ago.
After multiple meetings with the DIA, the city's chief resiliency officer and recreation and public works staff, now comes early 2023's dedicated fundraising phase to raise the estimated $100 million cost. That is higher than the initial estimate due to inflation and supply chain issues, Fafard said.
Mystery solved per below? Not sure it doesn't beget more questions. 54,000 sf of gallery space to start. What is the starting gross space? Is it reasonable to expect increasing to 130,000 sf by 2027 when phase 1 will be lucky to be open by end of 2024. The "future expansion" foot print shown in the site drawing doesn't look all that big but I assume that brings the building to the 130,000 sf at some point if it is at least 2 floors.
Also, where is the parking for visitors going to be?
Quote....The nonprofit's presentation included conceptual renderings submitted by MOSH and landscape architecture firm SCAPE showing 16,200 square feet of gallery space, an education suite and a public cafe terrace on the first floor.
The cafe would face Bay Street.
The second level would have 37,800 square feet of gallery and exhibit space as well as a theater that Fafard said is a planetarium.
The rooftop would have an event terrace facing Hogans Creek and the St. Johns River that Fafard said would be about 2,000 square feet.
The renderings also show an area where MOSH will keep habitat for rescue animals used in its educational programming named the Hixon Florida Naturalist Exhibit.
The outdoor space would have a discovery path leading from Bay Street to the main entrance, a "lookout lawn" and the St. Johns Porch facing the park, Riverwalk and the St. Johns River....
....n January, the DIA board and MOSH reached an agreement for a 40-year ground lease at $1 per year for 2½ acres of city-owned Shipyards property.
As part of the lease, MOSH has the option to design the entire 6.8-acre site and the city will reimburse the nonprofit up to $800,000 in costs.....
In exchange, Fafard said MOSH would complete an estimated $85 million, 130,000-square-foot museum facility by Dec. 31, 2027.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/dia-board-oks-mosh-shipyards-site-plan-jacksonville-childrens-chorus-loan
(https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/sites/default/files/422858_standard.jpeg)
Parking is under the building. No phase of the building will be open by 2024. The 130,000 square foot building is expected to be completed by 2027.
QuoteMOSH Genesis exhibit design plan announced
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The Museum of Science & History (MOSH) recently announced completion of exhibit design plan for its MOSH Genesis Project. The comprehensive plan, developed in partnership with Local Projects, reflects input from subject matter experts across Northeast Florida.
Read More: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/mosh-genesis-exhibit-design-plan-announced/
Here's the parking floor plan:
(https://photos.moderncities.com/photos/i-Kdr7Xcn/0/L/i-Kdr7Xcn-L.jpg)
I hope the current MOSH's permanent exhibit on the history of Jax can end up preserved somewhere in town, in some capacity.
Quote from: Josh on December 22, 2022, 09:36:32 AM
I hope the current MOSH's permanent exhibit on the history of Jax can end up preserved somewhere in town, in some capacity.
With MOSH Genesis focusing so heavily on science, ecology, and culture, I wish there was a way to transform the existing space on the Southbank into a purely historical museum, with a strong focus on civil rights. Would be a good compromise for some of the confederate monuments as well (e.g. instead of displaying them in a celebratory fashion in public squares, present them in a museum alongside the full, proper historical context behind them). Would also integrate well with the historical features planned for St. Johns Park, as well as the renovated fountain and Related's restaurant on the park.
The current MOSH building should definitely be repurposed into another museum or cultural space.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 22, 2022, 03:54:16 PM
The current MOSH building should definitely be repurposed into another museum or cultural space.
As a history museum, in addition to civil rights, it could include specialized exhibits on Native Americans, railroads, ships, the military, finance and business, music, famous persons from here, architecture, sports, agriculture, the natural environment and so much more. As I think this out, I wonder if it all could fit in that building ;D.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on December 22, 2022, 04:16:55 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on December 22, 2022, 03:54:16 PM
The current MOSH building should definitely be repurposed into another museum or cultural space.
As a history museum, in addition to civil rights, it could include specialized exhibits on Native Americans, railroads, ships, the military, finance and business, music, famous persons from here, architecture, sports, agriculture, the natural environment and so much more. As I think this out, I wonder if it all could fit in that building ;D.
I kind of dig the idea of having a series of museums positioned on or near the Riverwalk.
We've already got the following in the works:
1) MOSH Genesis (Shipyards)
2) Music Museum (Casket Factory near the Arena)
3) USS Orleck & Naval Museum (planned near the Orleck at Shipyards West)
4) Fire Museum (also moved to Shipyards West)
Toss in a proper history museum at the site of the old MOSH, a sports museum somewhere along the river, and find a way to package together a single ticket, and you've got a pretty compelling reason to travel most of the riverwalk and make a day or two of learning about the city. You've even got the historical aspects of the planned nodes at the Times-Union Center, St. Johns Park, etc. to serve as connective tissue between the proper museums.