https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2022/12/12/the-four-seasons-hotel-will-definitely-be-a-part-of-the-shipyards-project/
Article seems surprisingly poorly written. But nice to see we're actually getting what we were promised, especially for the money. As long as they keep close to the final blueprints I'll be satisfied.
Time to brace for the stadium/Lot J 2 ask...
Does this mean there will be a future season of The White Lotus set in Jacksonville?
Quote from: marcuscnelson on December 13, 2022, 09:42:47 AM
Article seems surprisingly poorly written. But nice to see we're actually getting what we were promised, especially for the money. As long as they keep close to the final blueprints I'll be satisfied.
Time to brace for the stadium/Lot J 2 ask...
They need to find a way to Re-Use the Dailey's Place Toaster Box. It seems they could come up with something similar to the "Live" Space that was being proposed in Lot J and put it in that space.
The current flex field will be a multi-use facility owned and operated by the parks department. Basically a 2 acre indoor park.
Here is the JBJ Article explaining it:
By Nick Blank
Reporter, Jacksonville Business Journal
Dec 13, 2022
The plan for the city to sell Shad Khan's Iguana Investments land for an office building at the Shipyards rather than leasing it as well as other changes to the project will increase the incentives package provided by the city.
That package is before City Council, with a vote expected next year.
On Monday, the Downtown Investment Authority discussed the changes with council members, teeing it up for committee discussions in January.
The price tag for the project has grown, with both the city and Iguana facing higher construction costs.
The total investment cost for Iguana's Investments to develop multiple riverfront parcels is $387.6 million, up from a June estimate of $301 million.
The city's cash contribution would grow from the initially proposed $90.78 to $127.37 million. That includes adding in two capital improvement projects that weren't originally envisioned: building a new bulkhead and a new pier.
Another part of the reason for the increase in incentives: By buying the land, the developer would now have to pay taxes on it.
The proposed changes would see 75% of those taxes rebated over the next two decades, up to $8.1 million, pushing the total value of the Recapture Enhanced Value grant from $47.7 million to $58.7 million.
"There is a cumulative benefit to the city and a cumulative increase in the REV grant related to the office parcel, because the office parcel is now paying taxes on the land," DIA CEO Lori Boyer said during the Monday meeting. "So, it is increasing the amount of taxes coming into the city and increasing their eligibility for the REV grant."
Iguana would pay $3.2 million for the 1-acre parcel. Previous plans had been for Iguana to lease the property for up to 50 years, paying the city $36,000 a year.
Once the city sells the land, it has to stay on the tax rolls, Boyer said in response to a council member's question, although Iguana will be allowed to sell it.
"So it's on the tax rolls, and from that point on, we don't care who owns the property," she said.
Earlier this year, Jacksonville Jaguars President Mark Lamping presaged the additional request.
"If you're spending $370 million, your ad valorem taxes are going to be higher," he said in May. "And part of the incentives we receive is a rebate on those ad valorem taxes that we're paying, that but for us building the hotel would not exist. So we think that they should increase with that. But it comes with its own funding source. And we think it's a very reasonable request."
The city's performance schedule would require all improvements on the hotel and office parcels and easements to be "substantially completed" by June 30, 2026 — six months later than originally proposed.
^ do we know whether the revised project still has a positive ROI?
Quote from: billy on December 13, 2022, 09:50:45 AM
Does this mean there will be a future season of The White Lotus set in Jacksonville?
Haha, we'll have to get quite a bit more exotic for that.
Quote from: marcuscnelson on December 13, 2022, 12:53:04 PM
^ do we know whether the revised project still has a positive ROI?
The numbers presented to DIA and City Council yesterday indicated a positive ROI for both properties (Four Seasons and the office properties are two separate projects). Something like $1.15 for every $1.
Frankly, COJ should sell as much publicly-owned property Downtown as possible and increase Downtown's tax base... which has been absolutely decimated over the past five decades. Something like 35% of land within DIA's boundaries is publicly-owned. That's pretty insane. COJ has proven to be Downtown's largest slumlord.
Quote from: fieldafm on December 13, 2022, 02:06:01 PM
Quote from: marcuscnelson on December 13, 2022, 12:53:04 PM
^ do we know whether the revised project still has a positive ROI?
The numbers presented to DIA and City Council yesterday indicated a positive ROI for both properties (Four Seasons and the office properties are two separate projects). Something like $1.15 for every $1.
Frankly, COJ should sell as much publicly-owned property Downtown as possible and increase Downtown's tax base... which has been absolutely decimated over the past five decades. Something like 35% of land within DIA's boundaries is publicly-owned. That's pretty insane. COJ has proven to be Downtown's largest slumlord.
It's not just downtown, COJ owns a very inordinate amount of land city-wide. Millions lost in property taxes and the properties are not kept up well at all.
Hopefully it's not quarantined from the surrounding area. It will only have a positive impact if it's designed in a way that it can be integrated with it's surroundings for public use.
Great news. Now the thousands of American and international tourists flying into JAX to see the USS Orleck will have a nice place to stay.
Quote from: fieldafm on December 13, 2022, 02:06:01 PM
The numbers presented to DIA and City Council yesterday indicated a positive ROI for both properties (Four Seasons and the office properties are two separate projects). Something like $1.15 for every $1.
Frankly, COJ should sell as much publicly-owned property Downtown as possible and increase Downtown's tax base... which has been absolutely decimated over the past five decades. Something like 35% of land within DIA's boundaries is publicly-owned. That's pretty insane. COJ has proven to be Downtown's largest slumlord.
Pleased by the ROI info.
Re: city-owned property, the DIA helpfully provides a map:
(https://dia.coj.net/getmedia/c0117c9f-c9ac-45e4-ba34-768cbccaa37f/20221006_City-Owned-Parcel-Map.aspx)
It really is surprising not just how much land the city owns but how underutilized it all is. Generally the point of owning all that is being able to dictate what should be done with it, but there just doesn't seem to be any plan for that. There are some parcels it makes sense to own, but then others that don't make much sense at all. I might make another post if there isn't one already to look at the current list and compare it to the "illustrative master plan."
Quote from: jaxjaguar on December 13, 2022, 03:28:51 PM
Hopefully it's not quarantined from the surrounding area. It will only have a positive impact if it's designed in a way that it can be integrated with it's surroundings for public use.
I mean, there isn't really much in terms of surroundings yet. Eventually there'll be the park and WJCT to the east, and the future phase and MOSH to the west, and then Lot J to the north.
^ Marcus, can you provide the link to this map and the spreadsheet that ties to the numbers on the properties. I searched DIA's site and couldn't find it in their map section or elsewhere. Thanks!
QuoteRe: city-owned property, the DIA helpfully provides a map:
That map also doesn't include land owned by JTA and JEA. Although JEA is an independent authority of COJ, and JTA is an independent authority of the State of Florida... that's semantics. Both are effectively controlled by the local group of politically-connected individuals.
QuoteGenerally the point of owning all that is being able to dictate what should be done with it
That's the cute little marketing slogan COJ uses. At the end of the day, all that land is hoarded only until the politically-connected figure out exactly how they can use it as a personal ATM machine. Otherwise, all that property would have been dispositioned to qualified developers long ago (or better yet- never publicly accumulated in the first place).
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on December 13, 2022, 06:07:34 PM
^ Marcus, can you provide the link to this map and the spreadsheet that ties to the numbers on the properties. I searched DIA's site and couldn't find it in their map section or elsewhere. Thanks!
Here (https://dia.coj.net/Doing-Business-With-Us/City-Owned-Downtown-Parcels-(1))
Quote from: marcuscnelson on December 13, 2022, 08:41:32 PM
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on December 13, 2022, 06:07:34 PM
^ Marcus, can you provide the link to this map and the spreadsheet that ties to the numbers on the properties. I searched DIA's site and couldn't find it in their map section or elsewhere. Thanks!
Here (https://dia.coj.net/Doing-Business-With-Us/City-Owned-Downtown-Parcels-(1))
Thanks, Marcus.
The comments column in the spreadsheet is enlightening as the comments indicate many of the lots (by numbered group designation, not by individual parcels) listed as available for development (about 40% or so) have commitments (such as Khan's projects) or obstacles to immediate development (e.g. limited utilities, issues with air rights, easements, first refusal rights to the Hyatt, etc.). Others are listed as being ready for offers or in process (like the high rise at the Landing site). Some are so small, less than .1 acre as to be almost useless for most purposes. Most of the larger parcels, not designated for development, are listed as parks, public buildings, ROW, serving utility or drainage purposes, etc. So, not sure how much margin there is for doing more in the DIA area. What parcel(s) would posters here consider most ripe for stepping up City efforts?*
* In my humble opinion, I would take the waterfront parcels off the list as I would like to see them reserved as parks/green spaces, as advocated for in my prior posts.
Shad Khan's Four Seasons development: Cost rising on the river:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/shad-khans-four-seasons-development-cost-rising-on-the-river
If I were the City I would do this one, but would tell him that this is the last increase that the City will do; in essence..."NO MORE MONEY!" He would be on his own from here on out. Either make it work or else.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 16, 2022, 09:12:37 AM
Shad Khan's Four Seasons development: Cost rising on the river:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/shad-khans-four-seasons-development-cost-rising-on-the-river
Like a broken record, we have seen this over and over with these deals. I can't recall the last deal the City participated in on a large scale that didn't break the bank eventually. Like the courthouse and the current stadium, expect to see the same cycle of coming back for more dollars when the Jags undertake the stadium "renovation." Once they have the City hooked, it seems the City just can't back up and say forget it. The other strategy is to scale the promised project back but not lower the cost. Developers and contractors know these games and take full advantage.
For some reason Council person Randall Defour dominates reporting column inches.