Quote(https://photos.moderncities.com/photos/i-QcVJPPt/0/L/i-QcVJPPt-L.jpg)
The Jacksonville City Council is reviewing an emergency bill seeking to move the naval museum ship temporarily to a former dry dock pier known as Pier One.
Read More: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/uss-orleck-may-move-down-the-river/
I wonder what the "emergency" is that requires such quick action by City Council? And why the City isn't including at least temporary access as part of the "emergency" action?
Weird how urgent this is.
Sure don't care for this idea:
QuoteBean said the city is considering building a new road from East Bay Street to the river, with parking that would nicely serve both the fire museum and Orleck site. He hopes that is expedited "as the development catches up with us."
More here:
https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2022/11/22/new-exhibit-being-added-to-uss-orleck-as-city-council-considers-fast-tracking-move-to-shipyards/
You mean more taxpayer money is going to be spent on this failed museum that has already proven to have been a financial drain in two other communities?
Wow, how 'shocking'!
Quote from: fieldafm on November 22, 2022, 11:27:30 AM
You mean more taxpayer money is going to be spent on this failed museum that has already proven to have been a financial drain in two other communities?
Wow, how 'shocking'!
It's going to work here in the Bold City though!
How long will it be before they tow this relic to somewhere else that has enough gullible people to take it off our hands? 14 "battle stars"? I guess lobbing shells into the Vietnam jungle from a safe distance is considered a battle. Huge boondoggle.
My guess is the Hyatt wants it moved. It blocks its view of the river.
Unfortunately, despite the good intentions of its backers, I see a financial "shipwreck." I wonder what the tab is going to be for the taxpayers with building a pier, parking and access. Who is paying to relocate the ship this time?
At the shipyards, for now, its visibility and "walkability" from the City core is going to be a lot less than its current location. Out of site, out of mind isn't going to help its attendance.
Everyone knows these things are money pits. The big challenge here is going to be keeping the museum open during the years it will take to make something out of the Shipyards site. A completed park at the site is probably 5-10 years a way still.
Bring her down to Green Cove Springs!!!
Perfect.
Green Cove sports a past Military history.
And current events merge perfectly.
First Coast Outer Beltway.
' Developer' standing by to serve an influx of new residents that will " want something to do" coupled with Beltway Accommodation, the assumption residents will Have To Pay For Something To Do.... a Dark Horse Inland County.... skip the Ocean Beach, Nocatee lake and trails,and skip even Clay County River Shore line, mostly. Orange Park Mall no longer much of an option, the place in fact a " No Go" for many established Clay Residents. The mall was established the same era Clay championed a Green Cove Coal Fire Electric plant. The coal fire plant ended up in Duval. Recently demolished.
Green Cove ship placement a perfect Metaphor. And something to do.
At least for the foreseeable future, Clay County Retired Military presence might perhaps champion a Clay County Berth.
Eventually...... haul her back out to the Atlantic Ocean...... " Artificial" Reef!
By the way, my Dad was Quarter Master First Class aboard United States Navy LSM 82; WW11 Pacific Theatre.
I am quite certain this post is in line with Dad. He would have been more forthright.
My Dad was adamant that I would never end up in Vietnam.Not even on a relatively Safe Haven Navy Ship.
Quote from: Florida Power And Light on November 30, 2022, 07:56:27 PM
Bring her down to Green Cove Springs!!!
Perfect.
Green Cove sports a past Military history.
Green Cove Springs would be poetic justice for a ship to find itself in mothballs given its history of hosting 600 such ships after WWII. Some info below including one from Ennis's Modern Cities website :).
Quote]Atlantic Reserve Fleet, Florida
In 1946 the Atlantic Reserve Fleet, Florida, also called the Atlantic Reserve Fleet, Green Cove Springs opened next to the Naval Air Station Green Cove Springs in the St. Johns River. The Atlantic Reserve Fleet, Florida was part of the United States Navy reserve fleets, also called mothball fleet, was used to store the now many surplus ships after World War II. The freshwater was good for long-term storage for ships. At its peak the reserve fleet had 600 ships. In the fleet were destroyers, destroyer escorts, troop ships and US Navy auxiliary ships. Some ships in the fleet were reactivated for the Korean War and Vietnam War.[5][6] The reserve fleet and Air Station were closed in June 1962. The land was deeded to the City of Green Cove Springs. In 1965, the site was sold to J. Louis Reynolds. The site today is the Clay County Port and Reynolds Industrial Park.[7] One runway remains as the Reynolds Airpark Airport (FL60). [8] Some of the former airfield land was used as a test track for anti-lock brakes by Kelsey-Hayes/TRW Automotive. At the site is the original Naval Air Station Lee Field air traffic control tower and aircraft hangars. [9] [10][11][12]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Air_Station_Lee_Field
QuoteIn 1946, thirteen (13) 1,500 foot concrete piers were built into the St. Johns River, at the cost of $10 million, to securely house the U.S. Naval Atlantic Reserve or "Mothball Fleet" of WWII U.S. Navy ships. At its height, over 600 vessels, primarily destroyers, destroyer escorts and fleet auxiliaries, were stationed at Green Cove Springs, along with more than 5,000 naval personnel and 1,000 civilian employees. Unfortunately, under his first executive order, President Lyndon B. Johnson decommissioned the facility and relocated the fleet to Texas, his home state. Soon, after the 1960 decommissioning of NAAS Green Cove Springs, the City of Green Cove Springs purchased and sold the former military installation to Julian Louis Reynolds, of Reynolds Metal Company, for the development of a multi-modal 1,700-acre industrial park served by rail, highway, water, and a private airport. Reynolds established the Reynolds Industrial Park in 1965.
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(https://photos.moderncities.com/Other/Miscellaneous/i-FgR4Dq2/0/L/US_Navy_Reserve_Fleet_at_Green_Cove_Springs_c1951-L.jpg)
https://www.moderncities.com/article/2017-mar-the-ghosts-of-green-cove-springs
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Leave it in Jax. Let them earn their pay and figure out what to do with it being that they beckoned it here. I don't want to go to Green Cove Springs; Jax is a modern Navy town (minus Cecil). Leave it on the St. Johns. Don't care about the Reserve in GCS or 1960; before my time.
Quote from: heights unknown . Don't care about the Reserve in GCS or 1960; before my time.
/quote]
Yea, there are a lot of things I don't care about any more either. Mostly stuff not before my time.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on November 22, 2022, 06:55:58 PM
My guess is the Hyatt wants it moved. It blocks its view of the river.
You are correct.
https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/downtown-jacksonville-hotel-claims-significant-negative-financial-impact-uss-orleck/HA72PDFJXVDTZPIZUWNHXTEXGE/?outputType=amp
I get the Hyatt's point. That's something that should have been worked out before the ship arrived.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 09, 2022, 09:28:28 AM
I get the Hyatt's point. That's something that should have been worked out before the ship arrived.
Amen.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on December 08, 2022, 11:20:07 PM
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on November 22, 2022, 06:55:58 PM
My guess is the Hyatt wants it moved. It blocks its view of the river.
You are correct.
https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/downtown-jacksonville-hotel-claims-significant-negative-financial-impact-uss-orleck/HA72PDFJXVDTZPIZUWNHXTEXGE/?outputType=amp
The numbers Bean throws out there seem preposterous.
These quotes from today's Times Union don't bode well for this ship as predicted by most everyone but its most ardent supporters. And, in the comments, a poster notes additional lost support because they allowed the ship to become political by hosting signs supporting politicos like Trump and DeSantis.
Quote
....The city allowed JHNSA to berth the ship in front of the Hyatt Regency under the expectation it would be only a few weeks, not months, the mayor's office Chief Administrative Officer Brian Hughes told committee members. The organization does not currently pay the dock fees the city would normally charge at the location, and it also cannot charge money for tours, only ask for donations.
The hotel, which Hindsley said did not receive enough advanced notice of the ship's arrival, touts riverfront views to guests and for outdoor events. By having the ship directly in front of the business, they have lost business and "would like to see the ship moved as quickly as possible," Hindsley said.
"We've been extremely accommodating, and we can't be anymore," Hughes said of the city's relationship with JHNSA. He continued and said the city has not received numbers on the financial loss to the hotel but has verified anecdotal evidence. "I have no doubt we have impacted their business." ....
.....The contract with the city specifically outlines a move to Pier 1. Advocates for the ship like William Harrell wanted to see it move elsewhere.
"I consider Pier 1 a hellhole for which the Orleck would simply gradually go broke for lack of public access," Harrell told the neighborhoods committee Monday.
Harrell aims to open a veterans museum next to the Orleck's final location, but the endeavor is separate from JHNSA's contract with the city. Harrell does not work for JHNSA but argued that a lack of parking and public access to Pier 1 would ultimately hurt both the ship and his burgeoning museum.
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/politics/government/2022/12/11/jacksonville-city-council-to-decide-next-move-former-navy-ship-uss-orleck/69714734007/
If Pier One is a hellhole, it probably wasn't smart for the museum to pick it as the intended location. A lot of the logistics here are half baked.
LOL......."Hell Hole." LOL.
You don't have to be Jeanne Dixon to predict this is a fiasco in the making, similar to Brewster Hospital or whatever it was that was owned by a fraternity as it rotted away.
The Orleck is a consolation prize due to the demise of Offshore Power Systems. Exciting times in the River City.
Quote from: vicupstate on December 12, 2022, 03:07:01 PM
You don't have to be Jeanne Dixon to predict this is a fiasco in the making, similar to Brewster Hospital or whatever it was that was owned by a fraternity as it rotted away.
How to tell us how old you are without telling us how old you are. :D
I think it's great the ship is here - I think it's absolutely fantastic. I question, personally, just how much of "the view of the river" from the 2nd-4th floor of the hotel is absolutely blocked by the ship. I question that the ship itself isn't some bit of a unique view for guests in some rooms. I question views from "event space" there as every event I've been to there has been completely interior with no views outside whatsoever.
But this is all a moot point. This ship I liken to another park, or so. It is actually relevant and representative of our city, being a Navy city. We had really nothing in that regard until this ship came. I'm surprised the city isn't doing MORE to accommodate the ship and make a thing of it. We throw all this money all over the place with literally almost no results to speak of - how do we not already have a wonderful public pier to host this ship at?
How is the Fire Museum still closed? In fact, it's great that we've allocated all of this money to the Shipyards Park and the former Landing site, but it still takes way too long for anything to even get built. There is no urgency, ever, with this city, except for when it comes to throwing money and incentives to "friends and family" of the good old boys network.
Long term, I could see this naval ship museum being successful - it's the only one in the entire state of Florida. We have tons of vets who would be interested in a visit or tour. Granted, they may pay vet prices, which may mean "free", but it's worth it for a valuable community of people who have actually served their country. We've ruined Boy Scouts, as we have pretty much everything now, but as has been mentioned it's the perfect spot for BSA or similar groups to have events, tours, campouts, etc.
It's a wholesome attraction that fits Jacksonville very well, and I personally love seeing that ship on our downtown riverbank. I consider it a worthy part of our skyline and one of the most interesting structures in it. But this is Jacksonville and it's never been a city known for its execution on anything and that's really the crux of it.
Slightly off topic, but since this is the riverfront and Pier 1 is basically adjoined to the future Shipyards Park, where we've allocated something like $25M, with another $25M or so give or take for the Landing another $16M or so for Metropolitan Park, all adding up to something like +/- 75 acres, I do find it interesting that Omaha, NE is supposedly spending $325M on its 72 acres of riverfront parks. I've been to Omaha and it's a very clean, very put together city with an attractive and vibrant downtown. I was super impressed. Given that we have more people in Duval County alone than Omaha has in its metro, it's always fascinating to me that we can't come close to competing, dollar for dollar. They are even getting a new tallest.
See article below:
https://www.visitomaha.com/about-omaha/development/
$325 million transformational development including three existing parks over 72 acres. Features will include a Performance Pavilion, Sculpture Garden, interactive water features, Skate Ribbon, Event Lawns, Urban Beach, destination playgrounds, and The Kiewit Luminarium, a multi-million dollar STEM interactive family museum. The first of three parks has reopened. Check out current renderings here.
Why we can't execute on the Orleck and figure this out just baffles me. Will we ever have a worthy riverfront park system with activated piers to host something like the Orleck? That's supposedly the vision. Literally every other city can figure this stuff out but us.
Move it, make a park out of the area where it will be moored/berthed, how hard is this to do? I agree, WHY can't they get this right. If they were going to bring the Orleck here, they should have planned accordingly and had all of this figured out before towing her here. GET IT RIGHT!!! As a retired Navy Sailor (Chief Petty Officer), I am elated that the Orleck is here, and I will slam down my money (or my card) to take a visit being that I am an Aircraft Carrier Sailor and never served on a Small Boy/Destroyer. So they really need to turn to, get the job done, and get this Museum cranking. I think some of our leaders need to go visit the USS MIDWAY MUSEUM in San Diego California. The Midway is a World War 2 Midway Class Carrier built in 1946 and it is one of the most successful Museums in the nation and in the world of its kind, and, it has been in San Diego since 2004. Extremely successful. Maybe if they would take a trip there to see it, it would motivate them to get some fire going under the Orleck Museum Project.
Quote from: simms3 on December 12, 2022, 06:49:25 PM
Slightly off topic, but since this is the riverfront and Pier 1 is basically adjoined to the future Shipyards Park, where we've allocated something like $25M, with another $25M or so give or take for the Landing another $16M or so for Metropolitan Park, all adding up to something like +/- 75 acres, I do find it interesting that Omaha, NE is supposedly spending $325M on its 72 acres of riverfront parks. I've been to Omaha and it's a very clean, very put together city with an attractive and vibrant downtown. I was super impressed. Given that we have more people in Duval County alone than Omaha has in its metro, it's always fascinating to me that we can't come close to competing, dollar for dollar. They are even getting a new tallest.
See article below:
https://www.visitomaha.com/about-omaha/development/
$325 million transformational development including three existing parks over 72 acres. Features will include a Performance Pavilion, Sculpture Garden, interactive water features, Skate Ribbon, Event Lawns, Urban Beach, destination playgrounds, and The Kiewit Luminarium, a multi-million dollar STEM interactive family museum. The first of three parks has reopened. Check out current renderings here.
Why we can't execute on the Orleck and figure this out just baffles me. Will we ever have a worthy riverfront park system with activated piers to host something like the Orleck? That's supposedly the vision. Literally every other city can figure this stuff out but us.
Omaha isn't likely stockpiling its cash and bonding capabilities to give a billionaire hundreds of millions of dollars and more for his pet projects and the stadium upgrades his NFL team will soon be expecting. Add to it the hundreds of millions and more dollars going to politico's developer-friends' projects, boondoggles like autonomous vehicles and port improvements benefitting private interests only and an outer beltway, 9B and other interstate projects benefitting connected land owners (mostly in other counties!) rather than to infrastructure such as transit, streetscapes, parks, historic preservation and other community assets. Take all those dollars and spread them around our community as you suggest and mystery solved!
Lakeland just built a $110 million park fully funded through donations from local companies and residents. It took six or seven years to go from concept to opening the park. So there's that example floating out there too. Its not always about waiting for city officials to give money or provide funding.
https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/floridas-latest-urban-park-bonnet-springs-park/
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on December 12, 2022, 11:39:02 PM
Omaha isn't likely stockpiling its cash and bonding capabilities to give a billionaire hundreds of millions of dollars and more for his pet projects and the stadium upgrades his NFL team will soon be expecting. Add to it the hundreds of millions and more dollars going to politico's developer-friends' projects, boondoggles like autonomous vehicles and port improvements benefitting private interests only and an outer beltway, 9B and other interstate projects benefitting connected land owners (mostly in other counties!) rather than to infrastructure such as transit, streetscapes, parks, historic preservation and other community assets. Take all those dollars and spread them around our community as you suggest and mystery solved!
Most of the highway projects are funded by FDOT. Omaha and all these other places also get billions in similar road projects in their communities as well. So Jax is no special case on that end.
Quote from: simms3 on December 12, 2022, 06:49:25 PM
Why we can't execute on the Orleck and figure this out just baffles me. Will we ever have a worthy riverfront park system with activated piers to host something like the Orleck? That's supposedly the vision. Literally every other city can figure this stuff out but us.
The issue with the Orleck is that it was never supposed to be a COJ funded project. It's backers sold the community on something that would not need local tax money. Now, the thing hasn't even been in town a full year and has cost taxpayers millions already. More local tax money will be needed to keep it afloat because without it, it won't survive the years it will take COJ to complete anything at Shipyards Park. Two previous cities got rid of the money pit. So from this perspective, it's not really baffling why the Orleck has had issues with obtaining COJ money and support.
I do believe that sending it to the Shipyards will be a potential nail in the ship's coffin if millions of COJ money isn't provided to subsidize it. With that said, has any thought been given to letting it block the river view of a non tax revenue COJ owned riverfront spot like the Landing, Friendship Fountain or the former county courthouse parking lot?
Quote from: thelakelander on December 13, 2022, 08:50:33 AM
Quote from: simms3 on December 12, 2022, 06:49:25 PM
Why we can't execute on the Orleck and figure this out just baffles me. Will we ever have a worthy riverfront park system with activated piers to host something like the Orleck? That's supposedly the vision. Literally every other city can figure this stuff out but us.
The issue with the Orleck is that it was never supposed to be a COJ funded project. It's backers sold the community on something that would not need local tax money. Now, the thing hasn't even been in town a full year and has cost taxpayers millions already. More local tax money will be needed to keep it afloat because without it, it won't survive the years it will take COJ to complete anything at Shipyards Park. Two previous cities got rid of the money pit. So from this perspective, it's not really baffling why the Orleck has had issues with obtaining COJ money and support.
Improperly conceived... Improperly planned... Improperly funded... Improperly placed... two previous cities got rid of it but Jax scooped it up... it will sink at the pier and be towed out to sea to become a reef at the expense of millions of Duval County taxpayers. Sad because a properly conceived, planned, funded naval display should be part of the Jacksonville waterfront... sigh...
Quote from: thelakelander on December 13, 2022, 08:37:10 AM
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on December 12, 2022, 11:39:02 PM
Omaha isn't likely stockpiling its cash and bonding capabilities to give a billionaire hundreds of millions of dollars and more for his pet projects and the stadium upgrades his NFL team will soon be expecting. Add to it the hundreds of millions and more dollars going to politico's developer-friends' projects, boondoggles like autonomous vehicles and port improvements benefitting private interests only and an outer beltway, 9B and other interstate projects benefitting connected land owners (mostly in other counties!) rather than to infrastructure such as transit, streetscapes, parks, historic preservation and other community assets. Take all those dollars and spread them around our community as you suggest and mystery solved!
Most of the highway projects are funded by FDOT. Omaha and all these other places also get billions in similar road projects in their communities as well. So Jax is no special case on that end.
FDOT dollars are available for City priorities if the City pushes for them, whether its grants for the Port, Cecil, city road bridge replacements, tearing down the Hart Bridge or Main Street Bridge ramps, building out mass transit, rail line extensions, etc..... But, FDOT only has so many dollars to spend in our City. Dollars for interstate expansions are dollars not available elsewhere at some point. I am just highlighting our misplaced local priorities.
FDOT dollars aren't going to the Orleck or riverfront parks, even if COJ pushed for that. Yes, some (not all) infrastructure projects funded with FDOT dollars could help shape those projects in a particular fashion but ultimately the project has to fit within FDOT's mission.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 13, 2022, 11:55:12 AM
FDOT dollars aren't going to the Orleck or riverfront parks, even if COJ pushed for that. Yes, some (not all) infrastructure projects funded with FDOT dollars could help shape those projects in a particular fashion but ultimately the project has to fit within FDOT's mission.
Like tearing down the Hart Bridge ramps for a Four Season's hotel or the ramp to the Main Street bridge so Curry can get a skyscraper built? I don't consider these projects supporting FDOT's mission.
There there is raising JEA power lines: https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/fdot-pledges-dollar22-5-million-for-jaxport-effort-to-raise-power-lines-over-st-johns. How about FDOT spending the same dollars to bury power lines along FDOT roadways "to improve traffic safety" by eliminating poles for drivers to hit? Improving urban aesthetics would just be a coincidental byproduct I suppose ;D.
FDOT's general mission is to move people and freight and to do it efficiently and safely. So yes, demolishing an obsolete, aging structure in the Hart Bridge ramps (instead of rebuilding it, which would have been more expensive), burying power lines on roads in a hurricane prone environment or raising JEA powerlines to accommodate more shipping, would all be forms of moving people and freight more efficiently and safely. Keeping the Orleck afloat or building a riverfront park for the City of Jacksonville would not. Now, when you can match a project that aligns with the purpose of FDOT, in a manner that also improves urban aesthetics and connectivity, you get big wins with FDOT funds. The Fuller Warren Bridge pedestrian and bicycle path is an example of a good win.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 13, 2022, 02:05:41 PM
FDOT's general mission is to move people and freight and to do it efficiently and safely. So yes, demolishing an obsolete, aging structure in the Hart Bridge ramps (instead of rebuilding it, which would have been more expensive), burying power lines on roads in a hurricane prone environment or raising JEA powerlines to accommodate more shipping, would all be forms of moving people and freight more efficiently and safely. Keeping the Orleck afloat or building a riverfront park for the City of Jacksonville would not. Now, when you can match a project that aligns with the purpose of FDOT, in a manner that also improves urban aesthetics and connectivity, you get big wins with FDOT funds. The Fuller Warren Bridge pedestrian and bicycle path is an example of a good win.
The Fuller Warren project extends beyond just the bike/ped path. The Northbank Riverwalk Artists' Square (home of the Riverside Arts Market), the Artist Walk (which will host an extension of RAM), and the Riverside Dog Park have all been built or are in the process of completion. Next up will be a skate park in between the Artist Walk and the Riverside Dog Park. Every one of these public spaces have been built with a combination of FDOT, COJ and private funding sources.
I was and am still totally in favor of removing the Hart Bridge ramps. The design of said ramp removal was sorely boggled by FDOT, COJ and their contractors. I don't think the Jaguars or the public at large like the end product.
Now I do think the design of the Hart Bridge ramp removal was largely screwed up by COJ. If COJ wanted a better designed product, they could have worked with FDOT to create one. As such, it meets minimal design standards but is lacking in what it could have really been.
Quote from: fieldafm on December 13, 2022, 02:12:01 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on December 13, 2022, 02:05:41 PM
FDOT's general mission is to move people and freight and to do it efficiently and safely. So yes, demolishing an obsolete, aging structure in the Hart Bridge ramps (instead of rebuilding it, which would have been more expensive), burying power lines on roads in a hurricane prone environment or raising JEA powerlines to accommodate more shipping, would all be forms of moving people and freight more efficiently and safely. Keeping the Orleck afloat or building a riverfront park for the City of Jacksonville would not. Now, when you can match a project that aligns with the purpose of FDOT, in a manner that also improves urban aesthetics and connectivity, you get big wins with FDOT funds. The Fuller Warren Bridge pedestrian and bicycle path is an example of a good win.
The Fuller Warren project extends beyond just the bike/ped path. The Northbank Riverwalk Artists' Square (home of the Riverside Arts Market), the Artist Walk (which will host an extension of RAM), and the Riverside Dog Park have all been built or are in the process of completion. Next up will be a skate park in between the Artist Walk and the Riverside Dog Park. Every one of these public spaces have been built with a combination of FDOT, COJ and private funding sources.
Yes, all additional projects associated with a larger FDOT project and on FDOT ROW. The FWB project is an excellent example of how the community should work with FDOT to improve the quality of highway projects funded by them. While some will complain about the layout of Hendricks, the road diet done there years ago is another decent local FDOT example, as that outcome has helped spur redevelopment and economic activity along the core.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 13, 2022, 02:05:41 PM
FDOT's general mission is to move people and freight and to do it efficiently and safely. So yes, demolishing an obsolete, aging structure in the Hart Bridge ramps (instead of rebuilding it, which would have been more expensive), burying power lines on roads in a hurricane prone environment or raising JEA powerlines to accommodate more shipping, would all be forms of moving people and freight more efficiently and safely. Keeping the Orleck afloat or building a riverfront park for the City of Jacksonville would not. Now, when you can match a project that aligns with the purpose of FDOT, in a manner that also improves urban aesthetics and connectivity, you get big wins with FDOT funds. The Fuller Warren Bridge pedestrian and bicycle path is an example of a good win.
To be clear, I wasn't ever saying that FDOT should directly support Orleck. I was responding to the comments about civic improvements being made in Omaha and how public dollars get prioritized locally by government entities, working in concert with each other, that could support the same here within the scope of their missions. Just as Field notes that FDOT has helped facilitate such projects in Riverside/Brooklyn, it could likely do the same many more times throughout the City on a grander scale.
Field notes just what I mentioned. The Riverside/Brooklyn stuff is a part of the Fuller Warren Bridge expansion project...like the shared use path. There is no real investment otherwise. If COJ wants things on a grander scale, when it comes to investments on FDOT ROW related to FDOT projects, it needs to be more ambitious and visionary. COJ and its residents need to lead there, not FDOT. Nevertheless, Omaha is likely getting the same treatment with their DOT projects too. A lot of their additional investment is coming through other financial resources and funding pots.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 13, 2022, 05:38:33 PM
If COJ wants things on a grander scale, when it comes to investments on FDOT ROW related to FDOT projects, it needs to be more ambitious and visionary. COJ and its residents need to lead there, not FDOT.
This! Exactly my point. COJ needs to redirect FDOT projects in this manner, away from constantly prioritizing interstates to the burbs and more in FDOT infrastructure in the urban core where it also benefits public space projects like it did under the Fuller Warren Bridge. As I see it, this rarely happens with COJ presently or in the past. Time for change.
Would the Emerald Trail, as a mobility pathway, qualify for an FDOT grant, aside from allowing it to cross FDOT ROW's?
Yes, the Emerald Trail would be eligible for FDOT funding, but it doesn't appear it has any in either the current or proposed funding programs. These "off-system" non-highway projects don't receive a whole lot of money from FDOT overall and are thus highly competitive.
Quote from: Charles Hunter on December 13, 2022, 06:21:54 PM
Yes, the Emerald Trail would be eligible for FDOT funding, but it doesn't appear it has any in either the current or proposed funding programs. These "off-system" non-highway projects don't receive a whole lot of money from FDOT overall and are thus highly competitive.
Charles, thanks for the info. Your response furthers my point that if COJ would forcefully advocate more for changing FDOT priorities in our district, more money would be available for projects like the Emerald Trail and less would go toward interstates. The entire Emerald Trail project appears to be less than one major interstate interchange or lane expansion (e.g. the wasteful express lanes) based on my observations.
More funding for the Emerald Trail - or any "non-motorized" (bike/ped) project would have zero effect on Interstate funding. Different pots of money as it comes from USDOT/FHWA in Washington, DC. This reminds me that FDOT isn't totally at fault for the small funding for bicycle and pedestrian facilities, as those funding levels are (mostly) set at the Washington level by USDOT and Congress.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on December 13, 2022, 07:13:22 PM
Quote from: Charles Hunter on December 13, 2022, 06:21:54 PM
Yes, the Emerald Trail would be eligible for FDOT funding, but it doesn't appear it has any in either the current or proposed funding programs. These "off-system" non-highway projects don't receive a whole lot of money from FDOT overall and are thus highly competitive.
Charles, thanks for the info. Your response furthers my point that if COJ would forcefully advocate more for changing FDOT priorities in our district, more money would be available for projects like the Emerald Trail and less would go toward interstates. The entire Emerald Trail project appears to be less than one major interstate interchange or lane expansion (e.g. the wasteful express lanes) based on my observations.
JTA and COJ have applied for Emerald Trail federal USDOT funding through the Reconnecting Communities program. The use of the funds likely doesn't meet the funding's stated objectives. The specific funding requests aren't necessarily shovel-ready (I believe the funding request was for design work), nor actually reconnect a neighborhood severed by a highway (the specific road/infrastructure in question was there long before the neighborhood was). We'll see if anything comes to fruition from that particular request.
Money for interstates has nothing to do with money for the Emerald Trail. The USDOT and FDOT can choose to increase the pool for bike/ped projects, but that has no real effect on the pool of money for interstate expansion and maintenance. Frankly, all forms of infrastructure funding across the country is woefully inadequate.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on December 08, 2022, 11:20:07 PM
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on November 22, 2022, 06:55:58 PM
My guess is the Hyatt wants it moved. It blocks its view of the river.
You are correct.
https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/downtown-jacksonville-hotel-claims-significant-negative-financial-impact-uss-orleck/HA72PDFJXVDTZPIZUWNHXTEXGE/?outputType=amp
Quote from: Charles Hunter on December 13, 2022, 06:21:54 PM
Yes, the Emerald Trail would be eligible for FDOT funding, but it doesn't appear it has any in either the current or proposed funding programs. These "off-system" non-highway projects don't receive a whole lot of money from FDOT overall and are thus highly competitive.
The Emerald Trail would be eligible for funding as a part of the SunTrail program. However as Charles mentions, there's not a lot of money in it and it's highly competitive
If someone could show that flooding of McCoys or Hogans Creeks negatively affects a state road (I-95, I-10, Mathews Xway, or Main, State, or Union Streets), it might be possible to get some FDOT dollars for flood alleviation work in the creek. But that's quite a long shot.
Quote from: Charles Hunter on December 13, 2022, 10:27:51 PM
If someone could show that flooding of McCoys or Hogans Creeks negatively affects a state road (I-95, I-10, Mathews Xway, or Main, State, or Union Streets), it might be possible to get some FDOT dollars for flood alleviation work in the creek. But that's quite a long shot.
The only way to " Alleviate " 'Flooding ' at these waterways is to Accommodate flooding...... recognize the natural system. Flood Way. Flood Plain.
A tiny vestige of the original system remains in place now. A key element of " Plans".
Live with it. Flood. Zone.
Maybe build Giant Walls along Creeks. Ha!.... that would put us " On The Map"!
This, I fear, will be the story of the Orleck, just with a lot more dollars on the line. And, this doesn't even cover operating expenses to come.
QuotePlanned POW-MIA museum asks for deadline extension
The organizers behind a planned military museum at Cecil Field is asking the city for five more years before vertical construction on the project has to start.
Since 2017, Cecil Field POW/MIA Memorial Inc. has leased space at the former naval air station with the goal of preserving the chapel that had been on the base and creating a national destination to honor American prisoners of war and those missing in action.
The original lease for the city-owned land was for five years with one 20-year renewal option, with construction of the memorial and museum set to begin by the end of 2022
The nonprofit has made improvements to the chapel building — which has been renamed the "Chapel of the High-Speed Pass" and designated as an historic landmark — including renovating a conference space, offices and a temporary museum. The group has also installed two aircraft as part of a static display.
It hasn't, however, started work on vertical construction, which was originally slated to begin in 2022.
Although site work has commenced, the nonprofit is continuing to raise funds in addition to the $1.77 million it has already raised, according to a city summary of the project....
https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2023/04/11/pow-museum-extension.html?utm_source=st&utm_medium=en&utm_campaign=me&utm_content=JA&ana=e_JA_me&j=31125092&senddate=2023-04-11