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The Museum of Science & History (MOSH) releases exterior renderings for proposed museum at the Shipyards.
Read More: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/new-museum-of-science-history-renderings-released/
I love how the main entrance is dominated by that pointless ramp.
^Mentioned this last week.
That ramp really does the MOSH no favors.
In terms of design, not really what I was expecting. Looks more like what I would expect a new market-appropriate convention center to look like than a family museum. Missing some of those fun elements of the original MOSH 2.0 sketches
Very much looking forward to seeing how this plays out.
Also curious to see what the final City contribution ends up looking like. We're already in $20 million plus the land, and MOSH is still a good $70 million+ from what cost will likely end up being.
A museum of "science and history" does sound like a good thing, but......
Lately Americans (i.e. Floridians) can't even agree on "science and history."
Something to think about.
Maybe eventually it can be used for Starfleet Academy.
Quote from: jcjohnpaint on May 03, 2022, 10:36:34 AM
Maybe eventually it can be used for Starfleet Academy.
Wouldn't be surprised if the design was informed pretty heavily by the environmental conditions.
The smaller footprint at ground level, flaring out horizontally on the higher floors, probably allows them maximum square footage with the minimal amount of environmental remediation.
What they're proposing really only sits atop one area (that dark blue circle in the middle) that's requires heavy remediation for commercial use.
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Still can't help but feel that if we were all rowing in the same direction towards a vibrant, pedestrian-friendly downtown, having MOSH (even a smaller 2.0 version) anchoring Friendship Park directly across the Main Street Bridge from the Landing 2.0 is more beneficial toward that goal than having it across from the Sports Complex aside a six-lane highway. Love the MOSH, excited for their future, can't wait to see what they do next, but not particularly thrilled that we're essentially paying them $20 million to leave a strategically important area in the immediate downtown core that we're currently investing a lot of money in between the fountain, the park, the Related subsidies, and the restaurant. Feels like the new location runs the risk of being drive-in, drive-out.
Disappointed that it does not appear that there will be any kind of paddleboard/kayak rental area. That seems like an absolute no brainer at minimum, given the proximity to Hogan's Creek and the SJR. Since COJ is chipping in so much, there should be an opportunity to add a marina as well. It's crazy that there is not a Freedom Boat Club location in Downtown Jax. There is one in/near the Downtown's of Tampa, St. Pete, Sarasota, Miami/Miami Beach, West Palm Beach, Fort Lauderdale, Naples, Ft. Myers, Pensacola, Panama City, Daytona, St. Augustine. There is one in basically every single small to large city on the water in the state, but their closest location to DT Jax is Julington Creek.
It also does not appear that there is a splash pad/water play area, which is essential in Florida. The Florida Aquarium in Tampa has a decent one, but it would be easy to design a better one that is more complementary to the design/theme of this museum. With the money Florida Aquarium makes on beer sales while the kids play, this would pay for itself.
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I think design is good. We are finally getting buildings that interface and take advantage of the river. I do agree the road ramp is a detriment. As to a splash park or other outdoor fun area, that should be a part of the Kids Kampus being relocated to the Shipyards West Park.
The ramp is less than ideal, but to compare, the Boston Museum of Science is a massively popular institution with an elevated bridge running in front of it and a scary-busy surface street at the entrance (though I'll concede the average travel speed there is far lower). The ramp shouldn't materially affect MOSH if they put out a good product.
Quote from: jaxoNOLE on May 03, 2022, 12:55:17 PM
The ramp is less than ideal, but to compare, the Boston Museum of Science is a massively popular institution with an elevated bridge running in front of it and a scary-busy surface street at the entrance (though I'll concede the average travel speed there is far lower). The ramp shouldn't materially affect MOSH if they put out a good product.
I wonder what the parking situation is going to be?
Shared parking with the sports complex?
Between Met Park, MOSH 2.0, Shipyards West, and the Jags hotel development beneath Bay Street, that's a lot of bodies parking above Bay to get below it. Wonder if a pedestrian overpass is going to become necessary at some point.
Quote from: CityLife on May 03, 2022, 11:24:00 AM
Disappointed that it does not appear that there will be any kind of paddleboard/kayak rental area. That seems like an absolute no brainer at minimum, given the proximity to Hogan's Creek and the SJR. Since COJ is chipping in so much, there should be an opportunity to add a marina as well. It's crazy that there is not a Freedom Boat Club location in Downtown Jax. There is one in/near the Downtown's of Tampa, St. Pete, Sarasota, Miami/Miami Beach, West Palm Beach, Fort Lauderdale, Naples, Ft. Myers, Pensacola, Panama City, Daytona, St. Augustine. There is one in basically every single small to large city on the water in the state, but their closest location to DT Jax is Julington Creek.
It also does not appear that there is a splash pad/water play area, which is essential in Florida. The Florida Aquarium in Tampa has a decent one, but it would be easy to design a better one that is more complementary to the design/theme of this museum. With the money Florida Aquarium makes on beer sales while the kids play, this would pay for itself.
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Tampa's riverfront clustering is certainly a good model.
The land immediately to the east of MOSH will be park space, and the land to the West on the other side of the Hogans Creek basin will also be park space that will include some type of playground/water park feature. Certainly how MOSH's exterior interacts with all of these planned enhancements will be critical.
There is currently a Super-Bowl era river taxi dock on the future MOSH site that may or may not stay, and I believe the initial conceptual plan is to turn the Hogans Creek basin into a feature for non-motorized vessels (kayaks, SUPS, paddleboats, etc).
There may be a COJ position soon that will also work to coordinate all of these Shipyards projects together with various city agencies, cultural organizations, developers, etc. All of this will take several years to plan, build, implement... perhaps across as many as 3 mayoral administrations involved when its all said and done.
^Awesome news Mike.
Looking back at an old post of mine from last December, I kicked this around as an idea:
"If Jacksonville was a well run city, it would hire someone solely to help MOSH identify all of the different opportunities to tie Mosh 2.0 expansion in with the river, Hogan's Creek, Exchange Island, The Emerald Trail, the Zoo, JU's Marine Science Institute, OCearch, Riverkeeper, and whatever else is out there. I would love to be proven wrong, but I'm not optimistic about the City's potential to pull this off the way its heading."
Hopefully they can find someone good for the role.
Quote from: fieldafm on May 03, 2022, 02:00:31 PM
There may be a COJ position soon that will also work to coordinate all of these Shipyards projects together with various city agencies, cultural organizations, developers, etc.
Apply here:
https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/3044107289/?refId=PZHbs/bnFkv3f3tVVDyrIg==
Quote from: CityLife on May 03, 2022, 11:24:00 AM
Since COJ is chipping in so much, there should be an opportunity to add a marina as well.
Thankfully, multiple marinas are planned for this general area, just not directly in front of MOSH.
I think a lot of the critiques here are valid (park space, splash pad, the stupid Hart Bridge ramp they're leaving), but most are not within the true purview of MOSH. To field's point, hopefully a position to coordinate this sort of stuff hired by COJ comes to fruition because they are valid things to consider.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on May 03, 2022, 01:39:07 PM
Quote from: jaxoNOLE on May 03, 2022, 12:55:17 PM
The ramp is less than ideal, but to compare, the Boston Museum of Science is a massively popular institution with an elevated bridge running in front of it and a scary-busy surface street at the entrance (though I'll concede the average travel speed there is far lower). The ramp shouldn't materially affect MOSH if they put out a good product.
I wonder what the parking situation is going to be?
Shared parking with the sports complex?
Between Met Park, MOSH 2.0, Shipyards West, and the Jags hotel development beneath Bay Street, that's a lot of bodies parking above Bay to get below it. Wonder if a pedestrian overpass is going to become necessary at some point.
Well, I bet the corner of the Arena Garage to the proposed front door is about the same as the old RCBC parking lot to the front of current MOSH. Now, again, the dumb ramp makes it feel worse. I realize tearing the rest of the ramp down isn't free, but this thing causes a huge issue.
If that was gone it would actually be a quite pleasant walk from the garage, past the new Doro and Intuition, then across Bay Street. That is actually a fine walk in a box.
The other place that long term could be decent parking would be the surface lot at Bay and Marsh. I believe this is used by JSO now, but if in a decade that could be useful for the rest of the Shipyards development.
^The Jags just made a big, well-connected hire as well to spearhead their real estate and development plans for the area.
Quote from: fieldafm on May 03, 2022, 02:00:31 PM
There is currently a Super-Bowl era river taxi dock on the future MOSH site that may or may not stay, and I believe the initial conceptual plan is to turn the Hogans Creek basin into a feature for non-motorized vessels (kayaks, SUPS, paddleboats, etc).
Would love to see this happen.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on May 03, 2022, 03:51:02 PM
^The Jags just made a big, well-connected hire as well to spearhead their real estate and development plans for the area.
Daily Record just posted an announcement.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jacksonville-jaguars-hire-drew-frick-as-real-estate-and-development-vp
Not a huge surprise, but confirmation in the article that Cordish is still in the picture.
Drew Frick is a great hire by the Jags. Nice.
^Agreed. Some nice names working under him too!
Related, it seems like they do understand Cordish's limitations as well. High rise office/residential isn't really in Cordish's wheelhouse so I feel like the translation there is they like the folks at Cordish but perhaps will keep them in a box so to speak. They are an egg basket but not the only basket they'll put their eggs in.
^Triple agreed!
On Cordish, what's funny is that when Lot J failed, internally, the Jags put a lot of blame on Cordish.
Apparently there were some concessions that the Jags were willing to make at the end to try to get Lot J passed that their partner (Cordish) refused to sign off on.
In retrospect, I think the point of no return for that deal was when Zed Smith got standoffish with City Council and refused to share documents like Cordish's pro forma for the project.
Would still love to see the city partner with Cordish on a Live! venue and hotel around the stadium.
Quote from: CityLife on May 03, 2022, 04:10:10 PM
Drew Frick is a great hire by the Jags. Nice.
Does he know he'll have to work with CaptainZ? Hope he doesn't quit when he finds out! 8)