Not 100% on the same page as Khan on how to develop Downtown but I do give him credit for calling out Downtown for what it is: A failure over the last 10 years (I would add at least 50 more years to that!).
And for what it needs among other factors: Self-confidence of leadership "because "it's going to work." (I read as we don't have to give the place away, including to Khan, but rather develop a good plan and stick with it as we are confident in the assets we have and what we have planned for them!).
From a media interview this week in the Jax Business Journal:
Quote..."Downtown has, in the 10 years I have been here, absolutely hasn't progressed," Khan said Monday while speaking with the media on his yacht, the Kismet. "It's gone downhill."
Reversing that slide remains a goal, he said, a decade after buying the team for $770 million dollars.
"What I like about Jacksonville is there is a vacuum here," Khan said. "There is a football team here and, as an owner, I can move the needle. How many times do you get a chance to move the needle in a good way in a great American city?"
Moving the needle is part of the point of having a Four Seasons hotel in his latest proposal for the Shipyards.
"The thing is Jacksonville needs some self-confidence," Khan said. "They told me 'We don't know how this is going to work, but since you want it we're going to do it.' To me it was 'It's going to work, and I can give you the reasons it's going to work.'"...
https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2021/12/14/jaguars-shad-khan.html?utm_source=st&utm_medium=en&utm_campaign=ae&utm_content=ja&ana=e_ja_ae&j=26042400&senddate=2021-12-14
There are a few things he's done or tried to do that I don't like; but...I like his analogy here and to me it's the truth. He wants to help, and he wants to help in many different ways, and to me he believes in Jacksonville and is confident that things can be turned around downtown and in the Urban Core. I'm glad he's decided not to move the team, and to continue trying to help and assist in a big change for the greater good of our city.
Others might disagree, but I think the guy continues to have terrible optics. Less malicious, more tone deaf/failure to read the room.
Quote"Downtown, in the 10 years I have been here, absolutely hasn't progressed," Khan said. "It's gone downhill."
And what has Shad Khan done about it in the last ten years? Almost single-handedly sabotage the convention center RFP? Conspire with Curry and Brian Hughes to get rid of the Landing to make way for development at Lot J? Ask the City to kick in $300 million for private development on Lot J? Abandon the flex field we built for the Jags?
The Four Seasons should be a step in the right direction, but let's not act like Khan has somehow been this long white knight for Downtown Jacksonville in the last 10 years when Vestcor and Southeast have brought more vibrancy to the area than the Jags have since Khan bought the team.
I think it's probably accurate to say that downtown hasn't progressed as much as it should have in the last ten years, but it's just so smug and dismissive of all of the restauranteurs, hoteliers, developers, investors, DIA and DVI members, etc. to say that it's "gone downhill." It's the same elitist garbage as when Khan said his rich friends don't want to stay in our hotels here, despite the fact that all the infrastructure that supports his billion-dollar team was built on the back of bed taxes from those same hotels.
Quote"The thing is Jacksonville needs some self-confidence," Khan said.
This stupid line should have been retired a long time ago. Jacksonville has developed more self-confidence in the last decade than it's had in a century. Businesses are choosing to open up shop here. Our restaurant and brewery scene has exploded. We've gotten way younger, and way more progressive. UNF has made some great strides. An organic groundswell in pride and identity has developed post-recession. And all of this has happened IN SPITE OF a historically shitty football team dragging Jacksonville's good name through the mud each and every Sunday and a front office that never misses an opportunity to remind the city that they're not really that viable as an NFL market.
Takes a good bit of nerve to make Jacksonville a laughing stock each and every Sunday for nearly a decade, but then say we "need more self-confidence."
Wanna know what self confidence looks like? Self confidence is feeling secure enough in our awesome city and its future to emphatically vote down a Lot J deal that's bad for the city despite veiled threats by the team about what it could mean for the franchise's future in Jacksonville.
Shad Khan has many good qualities, but the pinched-nose act gets really old.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on December 14, 2021, 10:19:23 PM
Others might disagree, but I think the guy continues to have terrible optics.
Quote"Downtown, in the 10 years I have been here, absolutely hasn't progressed," Khan said. "It's gone downhill."
And what has Shad Khan done about it in the last ten years? Almost single-handedly sabotage the convention center RFP? Conspire with Curry and Brian Hughes to get rid of the Landing to make way for development at Lot J? Ask the City to kick in $300 million for private development on Lot J? Abandon the flex field we built for the Jags?
The Four Seasons should be a step in the right direction, but let's not act like Khan has somehow been this long white knight for Downtown Jacksonville in the last 10 years when Vestcor and Southeast have brought more vibrancy to the area than the Jags have since Khan bought the team.
I think it's probably accurate to say that downtown hasn't progressed as much as it should have in the last ten years, but it's just so smug and dismissive of all of the restauranteurs, hoteliers, developers, investors, DIA and DVI members, etc. to say that it's "gone downhill." It's the same elitist garbage as when Khan said his rich friends don't want to stay in our hotels here, despite the fact that all the infrastructure that supports his billion-dollar team was built on the back of bed taxes from those same hotels.
Quote"The thing is Jacksonville needs some self-confidence," Khan said.
This stupid line should have been retired a long time ago. Jacksonville has developed more self-confidence in the last decade than it's had in a century. Businesses are choosing to open up shop here. Our restaurant and brewery scene has exploded. We've gotten way younger, and way more progressive. UNF has made some great strides. An organic groundswell in pride and identity has developed post-recession. And all of this has happened IN SPITE OF a historically shitty football team dragging Jacksonville's good name through the mud each and every Sunday and a front office that never misses an opportunity to remind the city that they're not really that viable as an NFL market.
Takes a good bit of nerve to make Jacksonville a laughing stock each and every Sunday for nearly a decade, but then say we "need more self-confidence."
Wanna know what self confidence looks like? Self confidence is feeling secure enough in our awesome city and its future to emphatically vote down a Lot J deal that's bad for the city despite veiled threats by the team about what it could mean for the franchise's future in Jacksonville.
Shad Khan has many good qualities, but the pinched-nose act gets really old.
Nice post Ken; he could be blowing smoke is what I think you are saying. As I said, I disagree with a lot of what he's done and not done since coming here. But I will give him another chance and see whether he's for real, or is he blowing even more smoke into our city's eyes so that we can't and won't see the forest for the trees.
QuoteWe've gotten way younger, and way more progressive.
Among the general population? Yeah I can see that. Among the leadership of the city [Mayor, council, C of C, etc.]? I don't see it myself.
I will say though, this is a pretty great quote, courtesy News4Jax:
QuoteBut perhaps the most surprising comment made by Khan was his answer to a question about his most proud accomplishment in his 10 years of Jaguars ownership. It was nothing on the field or something involving his real estate investments. Instead, he chose a victory that came in the political sphere: being a part of the move to get the Human Rights Ordinance passed in Jacksonville in 2018.
"That's No. 1. If we had even won the Super Bowl," Khan said. "I told the players that would still be (the) number two thing for me. Why? Because what the team and what the players did put us in a position to get enough votes to get HRO passed. We had tried before that and failed, OK. And those players, who they affected are people you're not gonna know."
"Now the players who are in the room, I mean, they're rich, maybe they're not going to get impacted, but the people we don't know, people of color, whether it's brown, black, whatever, the gender preference, religious and so on. They don't have protection, by the law. So they moved the needle by that season--gave us the credibility with the City Council to get it."
Build your two Vista Brooklyns and your Residence Inn on Lot J and save us Shad.
I wouldn't say it's gone downhill, but it hasn't progressed much. Seems like a lot of projects kicking off over there though so we'll see...
The cynic in me thinks Shad is actively trying to erode our confidence in the core, via many of the actions and sentiments KenFSU cited, so that we are more willing to direct city resources into establishing the Sports District as our new city center. If he can shake the faith of the public in our city's ability to revitalize the core (not a difficult task, given our tendency to self-sabotage), then maybe he can emerge as the savior figure to do what our city leadership can't -- on his terms, of course.
The thing is, the slow, small bit of momentum we have -- in spite of our leadership -- is building around the core, not the Sports District. I'd place my bets for "most improved" on Laura Street and the JWJ area over the next 5 years any day versus what's in the Sports District pipeline. I do not think his analysis will age well.
My response " The Jaguars, in the last 10 years I have been here, absolutely have not progressed. They have gone downhill".
Time to look in the mirror on both the team and downtown.
The narrative in the media since at least 2013 has been that "Downtown Jacksonville has momentum."
As a guy who's usually downtown five days a week, I have a hard time seeing the evidence.
Maybe that will be different in three years, but I also feel like we've been saying "maybe it will be different in three years" for a decade.
Forward progress has been made, but there's also been a lot of steps backwards as well.
Residential population has increased, which is great. But the regular downtown workforce has fallen dramatically since the onset of the pandemic.
We've gained some cool restaurants like Bread & Board Provisions, but we've lost spots like Zodiak and Vagabond.
We lost the Landing to a grass lot that probably won't be fully built out until 2025.
Convention center plans have gone nowhere.
Ford on Bay has gone nowhere.
River City Brewery had seen better days, but it's gonna be out of commission for a while with no short-term plan for a replacement.
Friendship Fountain work seems to be progressing at a snail's pace.
MOSH is relocating from right across the Main Street Bridge to the Shipyards in the late 2020s and will be a lame duck until it happens.
Times-Union Center work hasn't started.
We've been patting ourselves on the back for years for plans to two-way the streets and lure new restaurants to strategic corridors with no concrete progress.
Laura Street Trio hasn't started yet.
Independent Life building hasn't started yet.
Perfect storm of pandemic, DIA meddling, and a well-intentioned but counterproductive (in my opinion) push to conserve the First Baptist building prevented what could have been a transformational use of the property.
Clown cars are moving full speed ahead.
Berkman II is still standing and the demolition has been a comedy of errors, up to and including a cartoonish scissor machine tipped onto two wheels trying to take apart the building like a child's crane game and a fourth delay this week for the traditional implosion.
The JEA remains INCREDIBLY determined to implode the old headquarters as soon as the new one is done.
RiversEdge is currently just a parking lot built for a DCPS that is about to abandon their headquarters.
Four Seasons is an idea on paper; though it's been approved, it's like the 10th set of renderings we've seen in the last six years from the Jags without a shovel in the ground.
To me, momentum is when vibrancy actually starts to pick up and storefronts start to open.
People hate to hear it, but a scooter share did more to add to the vibrancy of downtown from my perspective than 10 years of city planning.
I think a better way to put it would be:
1) The Southbank lacks momentum.
2) The Stadium District lacks momentum.
3) The Riverfront lacks momentum.
4) Because of private investment, a small group of civic-minded developers and activists, and positive changes to funding mechanisms for historical rehab, the Laura Street Corridor and several surrounding streets may potentially build some momentum if and when new projects come online.
Just kind of silly to me that the media touts momentum based on the same list of projects that have been in the DVI's State of Downtown reports for like five years running.
Independent Life started construction about a month or so ago. Here's a pic for a construction update that I'll have coming soon:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-mGk7jhL/0/L/i-mGk7jhL-L.jpg)
I'd agree with Kahn that downtown has declined since 2000. I believe the loss of the Landing has been the biggest hit, along with the results of the pandemic. Another hit has been a tendency not to focus on doing what it takes to keep existing restaurants and retailers surviving. This has been the case with both the Landing tenants and other closed businesses like Zodiac. The Landing was such a simple fix and we not only blew it, but loss 30 businesses, everyday programming and the associated foot traffic generated in the process. That flop set us back at least a decade alone.
As such, we're going to have to wait another few years to see the Noco stuff be completed. I do disagree with the FBC building. Demolishing a historic 6-story building for a glorified front church entrance would have not been anymore transformational as any of FBC's other investments in the downtown core. Now, them selling off Noco buildings and garages has paid dividends. We're just going to have to wait to see those investments pan out. When they are completed, that saved 6-story FBC building is rip to become apartments or something along those lines. It also worked out for FBC by renovating the other sanctuary as well as a part of their consolidation plan. That project is underway as well. Overall, we're still not able to do the simple little things that have been needed for decades. Two-way streets, programming, RFPing dead properties, incrementally enhancing public spaces, etc. That's a COJ/DIA problem. This stuff isn't rocket science.
As for the U2C?.......Still waiting. Lots of talk but still far away from actually implementing something that works.
FWIW Rivers Edge was mowed and extensively flagged (for roads I assume) over the last week. They are also actively doing sitework on the back side of the property. Until now the only work has been along the seawall.
RiversEdge is on tomorrow's DDRB agenda. They are reducing maximum building heights for a future project on two of the parcels. Giving the building configuration shown on the documents, I assume they have something planned there. Who knows how long it will take before ground is broken on it though.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 15, 2021, 02:20:26 PM
RiversEdge is on tomorrow's DDRB agenda. They are reducing maximum building heights for a future project on two of the parcels. Giving the building configuration shown on the documents, I assume they have something planned there. Who knows how long it will take before ground is broken on it though.
I could be wrong but aren't they also meeting tomorrow r.e. awarding the ford on bay mk 2?
Quote from: thelakelander on December 15, 2021, 02:20:26 PM
RiversEdge is on tomorrow's DDRB agenda. They are reducing maximum building heights for a future project on two of the parcels. Giving the building configuration shown on the documents, I assume they have something planned there. Who knows how long it will take before ground is broken on it though.
DDRB makes me sick sometime. What is their problem? Are they afraid to let this city grow? And grow? And grow?
Quote from: thelakelander on December 15, 2021, 02:20:26 PM
RiversEdge is on tomorrow's DDRB agenda. They are reducing maximum building heights for a future project on two of the parcels. Giving the building configuration shown on the documents, I assume they have something planned there. Who knows how long it will take before ground is broken on it though.
Help me better understand this. Is the developer reducing height on select parcels to allow more height on others? Kind of like the "averaging" that was used to permit the extra height in San Marco? Or, is the developer reducing the height because they have uses that don't justify the heights they originally requested? Or, is DDRB reducing height because of the proximity to the river and the requested heights violating their riverfront setback "standards" (that would be refreshing!)?
I actually don't understand exactly why they need to reduce the maximum height limit of those parcels. The site plan they have appears to shift the tallest part of the proposed building to a different location. However, I'm not sure why the height limit needs to be changed. Here's the DDRB agenda:
https://dia.coj.net/Meetings/DDRB-Meetings/DDRB-Meeting-December-2021
It starts on page 123 and the Lincoln Property development concept plan is on page 134.
According to an older Jax Daily Record article, this must be the 750 unit apartment development mentioned:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/photo-gallery/riversedge-a-new-vision-for-the-downtown-southbank
Quote from: thelakelander on December 15, 2021, 10:27:07 PM
I actually don't understand exactly why they need to reduce the maximum height limit of those parcels. The site plan they have appears to shift the tallest part of the proposed building to a different location. However, I'm not sure why the height limit needs to be changed. Here's the DDRB agenda:
https://dia.coj.net/Meetings/DDRB-Meetings/DDRB-Meeting-December-2021
It starts on page 123 and the Lincoln Property development concept plan is on page 134.
According to an older Jax Daily Record article, this must be the 750 unit apartment development mentioned:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/photo-gallery/riversedge-a-new-vision-for-the-downtown-southbank
It looks like the request is due to the greatest height being over parking structures located in the core/center area of the wrap-around apartments. Something about moving the "tower zone" heights to over the garages from the perimeter structures. Not sure I follow the rule on this but that is what is in Item 1 of Attachment A from Kimley Horn in the agenda packet for this development. I am gathering they must have had an approved master plan and any changes to it must be reapproved.
To me it reads like they are eliminating the actual "tower" pieces of those parcels and using that height to allow the parking deck to stick up over the 80' roofline. The original plans had the tower sections on the edges of those parcels.
Here is the previous rendering: https://us-west-2-02820030-view.menlosecurity.com/c/i/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuamF4ZGFpbHlyZWNvcmQuY29tL3NpdGVzL2RlZmF1bHQvZmlsZXMvc3R5bGVzL3NsaWRlcnNfYW5kX3BsYW5uZWRfc3RvcnlfaW1hZ2VfODcweDU4MC9wdWJsaWMvMzQxMTg4X3N0YW5kYXJkLmpwZWc_aXRvaz05Y0tEdGVwSQ~~
Hopefully this means that they have someone lined up to move forward on that part of the project. I'm ready to see this thing kick off for real. The current land clearing they are doing is either in relation to the Toll Bros townhouses or the park/boardwalk on the back of the property.
Why doesn't the Rivers Edge principals offer to build the DCSB a new building inside their project (but not on the river) in exchange for getting the existing DCSB property?
Quote from: acme54321 on December 16, 2021, 07:46:49 AM
To me it reads like they are eliminating the actual "tower" pieces of those parcels and using that height to allow the parking deck to stick up over the 80' roofline. The original plans had the tower sections on the edges of those parcels.
Here is the previous rendering: https://us-west-2-02820030-view.menlosecurity.com/c/i/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuamF4ZGFpbHlyZWNvcmQuY29tL3NpdGVzL2RlZmF1bHQvZmlsZXMvc3R5bGVzL3NsaWRlcnNfYW5kX3BsYW5uZWRfc3RvcnlfaW1hZ2VfODcweDU4MC9wdWJsaWMvMzQxMTg4X3N0YW5kYXJkLmpwZWc_aXRvaz05Y0tEdGVwSQ~~
Hopefully this means that they have someone lined up to move forward on that part of the project. I'm ready to see this thing kick off for real. The current land clearing they are doing is either in relation to the Toll Bros townhouses or the park/boardwalk on the back of the property.
This is a specific project. Same thing I mentioned about the "conceptual plans" at the TU site being a bit more engineering level than "conceptual". The detailed foot print (down to number of bedrooms and bathrooms per unit) on this document, including what appears to the the developer and architecture firm, solidifies a potential project is in the works. It looks something of a similar scale to what has been built at Town Center and in Brooklyn in recent years.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-RsqNfwk/0/X5/i-RsqNfwk-X5.jpg)
Quote from: vicupstate on December 16, 2021, 08:42:59 AM
Why doesn't the Rivers Edge principals offer to build the DCSB a new building inside their project (but not on the river) in exchange for getting the existing DCSB property?
They have a chance to respond to the DCPS ITN. I can see something along these lines as one of the responses that could come. Same goes for the sites not selected in the JEA headquarters proposal a few years back.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-kN5QgZq/0/X5/i-kN5QgZq-X5.jpg)
How far south into the south shores area is the city buying and demolishing property? Due to the new resiliency policies, the District is going to be built up higher than the existing homes nearby. In a flooding situation it looks like the water will drain off of the District and onto the surrounding property.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on December 16, 2021, 10:27:57 AM
How far south into the south shores area is the city buying and demolishing property? Due to the new resiliency policies, the District is going to be built up higher than the existing homes nearby. In a flooding situation it looks like the water will drain off of the District and onto the surrounding property.
They are currently in the process of demoing some. In the part of the neighborhood around marjenhoff park they have taken a few down, one this week. Interestingly enough the two houses adjacent to that one are being remodeled. They have a couple on Southampton that have been prepped for demo. Pretty much all of the properties in the blocks around the park were eligible. I'm not sure how many people went through with it though because, at least originally, it was based on property values before Irma. On the same note most of the houses are off grade and water didn't actually get into their living areas so while it flooded I don't think many of the owners felt the effects like they would have if water was in their loving room.
I'm not sure how much of an impact the district will have on flooding, it should have enough retention for rainwater. The flooding issue in South Shores is tidal and short of a levee you aren't stopping that.
"Downtown has, in the 10 years I have been here, absolutely hasn't progressed," Khan said Monday while speaking with the media on his yacht, the Kismet."
The irony. Being lectured to by Shad Khan while he sits safely in his little boat. He's worth $8 billion or so they say. I'd be a lot more impressed if he dropped a little coin and purchased one of the penthouse units at The Peninsula. For a guy like this (who lives in Naples) they are flat out cheap. So he could spend a year here instead of short little visits on his boat. From his balcony at The Pen he can easily see the stadium. He could be present in Jacksonville instead of the absentee landlord/owner he now is. I don't think he's getting much good advice when it comes to football or Jacksonville. Thats my $.02
Quote from: MusicMan on December 16, 2021, 11:23:35 AM
For a guy like this, they are flat out cheap.
Exactly. He's not interested in what the Peninsula has to offer.
Khan, First Baptist Church, insert your boogeyman/scapegoat here ____ is not the reason that Downtown hasn't progressed during a generational urban real estate boom over the past decade.
WTF cares if Khan doesn't buy an overpriced condo, instead of staying on his much nicer $200mm yacht (that also pays mooring fees and brings a staff of over two dozen people into Downtown that all patronize local businesses several months a year.. and pays catering and event management fees to local businesses for the occassional guests they host on yacht). Tony Khan has rented a suite at the Hyatt or a condo at Berkman for the past several years. Last I checked he's an owner of the team as well. Its not like Khan's money isn't being recirculated into the local economy because he doesn't own a rinky-dink condo.
Is it Khan's fault that we could not work out a deal with Sleiman and the Landing prior to the super bowl back in 2005? How about 2015? How about not being able to two-way at least Adams so far or effectively RFP most of the deteriorating properties in public ownership? We've been talking about renovating James Weldon Johnson Park in front of City Hall, at least since the days that Suzanne Jenkins was on council. That predates the DIA and at least two mayor administrations. All the things mentioned above should have been done years ago and we should be benefitting from their increased vibrancy today. I wasn't really crazy about Lot J for the incentives that were being requested, but I'll also say while downtown has it problems and challenges, Khan isn't one of them.
Have the Jags "gone downhill" over the same time frame? Whose fault is that?
My $.02 was trying to pint out that sitting on the boat lecturing locals will have as much positive influence as hiring Urban Meyer. I didn't blame Khan for DT's woes.
Has he mentioned moving the jail off the block where he wants a Four Seasons? When will that ask take place? Everything he wants would be so much easier and palatable if the Jags were winning on a regular basis. They are not. And we are a long way away from fielding a consistent winner.
At this point you're just throwing whatever you can at the wall to see what sticks. He has pledged $5M to the new MOSH, $4M to funding Met Park's maintenance, $1M to the renaissance of the eastside neighborhood. He is doing his part to help downtown and the larger city to advance. He has not mentioned moving the jail. The city has stated they would like to move it from its current location and has even included funds for that in the 5 year CIP budget.
He also pays a lot of people 6 and 7 figure salaries to live and work here... not even counting players...
Quote from: Captain Zissou on December 16, 2021, 11:33:36 AM
Quote from: MusicMan on December 16, 2021, 11:23:35 AM
For a guy like this, they are flat out cheap.
Exactly. He's not interested in what the Peninsula has to offer.
And I'm beginning to think nor Jacksonville for that matter!
QuoteOn the Kismet, Khan said his company already has "a bunch of people" who want to live in the hotel's residential condominiums.
Plans call for 25 high-end, for-sale residences. Khan believes the condo clientele will bring with them a push to redevelop Downtown.
"Our preference is we want the movers and shakers to buy those who can make a difference in Jacksonville," Khan said.
"So they are coming Downtown. Then, all of the sudden, the rest of the area is going to get gentrified and urbanized. It is like planting a seed that's going to make a difference."
So that's the vision, I guess.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jaguars-owner-confident-downtown-hotel-will-be-a-four-seasons (https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jaguars-owner-confident-downtown-hotel-will-be-a-four-seasons)
The Landing tenant list from the back end of 2000. Compare that to the lawn it is now.
http://web.archive.org/web/20001017044125/http://www.jacksonvillelanding.com/html/shopping.html
Quote from: jaxoNOLE on December 17, 2021, 01:33:34 PM
QuoteOn the Kismet, Khan said his company already has "a bunch of people" who want to live in the hotel's residential condominiums.
Plans call for 25 high-end, for-sale residences. Khan believes the condo clientele will bring with them a push to redevelop Downtown.
"Our preference is we want the movers and shakers to buy those who can make a difference in Jacksonville," Khan said.
"So they are coming Downtown. Then, all of the sudden, the rest of the area is going to get gentrified and urbanized. It is like planting a seed that's going to make a difference."
So that's the vision, I guess.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jaguars-owner-confident-downtown-hotel-will-be-a-four-seasons (https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jaguars-owner-confident-downtown-hotel-will-be-a-four-seasons)
LOL, I hope not. We're in trouble if the vision is waiting for things to materialize around a hotel one mile from downtown that won't be open until 2025 at the earliest.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 17, 2021, 03:25:17 PM
Quote from: jaxoNOLE on December 17, 2021, 01:33:34 PM
QuoteOn the Kismet, Khan said his company already has "a bunch of people" who want to live in the hotel's residential condominiums.
Plans call for 25 high-end, for-sale residences. Khan believes the condo clientele will bring with them a push to redevelop Downtown.
"Our preference is we want the movers and shakers to buy those who can make a difference in Jacksonville," Khan said.
"So they are coming Downtown. Then, all of the sudden, the rest of the area is going to get gentrified and urbanized. It is like planting a seed that's going to make a difference."
So that's the vision, I guess.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jaguars-owner-confident-downtown-hotel-will-be-a-four-seasons (https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jaguars-owner-confident-downtown-hotel-will-be-a-four-seasons)
LOL, I hope not. We're in trouble if the vision is waiting for things to materialize around a hotel one mile from downtown that won't be open until 2025 at the earliest.
But Lake, a Four Seasons Hotel is an undeniable boost, I dare say a game changer. Yes, it will take some time to get built, but when they cut that ribbon, watch out!!
But ... will the 4 Season have a Fudrucker's in the lobby? If not how can it be a game changer?
^ LOL. By the time the Four Seasons opens we may have just one season thanks to climate change.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on December 17, 2021, 05:48:38 PM
^ LOL. By the time the Four Seasons opens we may have just one season thanks to climate change.
Then they can change the name to "The One Season" Hotel Jacksonville.
In fact, a lot of Jacksonville has gone " Downhill". West Side, Lane Avenue, 103 street corridor and pressures on Riverside. Even on in to Northern Clay..... Orange Park Mall...
Any future DT plans might want to incorporate why half of the Rouse projects ultimately failed.... per our ( Wonderful!) Landing Grass/ Open Space lot right smack dab down there, Public Water Front.
Kahn's " Bunch of people that want to live in a wonderful new condo box" ....
Yea, we have seen this before...... the " Buyers" are Speculators, looking to Flip.
A Waterfront facility on former public ownership lands would have really spurned excitement and anticipation....
The most viable way out of Downtown " Decline" trend might be the removal of Kahn from every and all city government proceedings, future vesting, presence and influence.
Maybe no more Jax NFL Francise...... now THAT would " Put Jax On The Map!"
Kahn spent $8,000 on a Kismet steering wheel upgrade.
Time has come to steer a different Course.......