Quote(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Miami/Random-Miami---July-2021/i-xXzWSk2/0/75c45004/L/20210717_191154-L.jpg)
Sights and scenes from the streets of a downtown that is now home to the country's third tallest skyline: Downtown Miami.
Read More: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/sights-and-scenes-downtown-miami/
Nice pix Ennis. I remember going to Miami Beach as a kid and mostly it was just low rise art-deco or 1950 to early 60's mid-century low rises. The skyline today in Miami may average a few floors lower but rivals NYC in overall appearance. Wonder how it will hold up to the inevitable Cat 5 hurricane.
From your sample, my take: Streets look to be in better condition than ours, sidewalks mostly much wider and in better shape (maybe cleaner too), more greenery and the buildings, on average, much "sexier" than most anything here. Their taxes may be higher, but they seem to be getting a pretty good ROI based on these pictures.
Their downtown and metropolitan area are
in a different tier from Jax and Florida's other major cities now. It's changing rapidly. Brickell looks a lot more vibrant than it was a decade ago. Bayside has a fresh coat of paint and lives on as a Rouse festival marketplace. It was sad to see Flagler Street mostly empty now though.
I was born at Miami Beach.
Grew up there.
So glad to have experienced the place back then.
As a kid I recall my mom, dad, sister and I taking an auto trip touring the Miami coastline....... witnessing the development.
We were abhorred. Ha!....... that was the 60's.
My dad and I would beach a boat on the shores of Burlingame Island, a small undeveloped island at the mouth of the Miami River. See it now!
Density Lovers rejoice!
As a Jacksonville native I remember my entire family trash talking Miami while growing up. We never visited and it was always described to me as overcrowded, impossible to get around, expensive, gross, crime filled, etc... Sadly I kind of believed that into my 20's. Finally made a trip down there for my 29th birthday a few years ago and man, it's the exact opposite of what I had been told. Super diverse neighborhoods not just culturally or finacially but stylistically too, friendly people, so many great food options from every price point and culture, amazing parks, by far the best public transit in the state, the beaches are incredible, I could go on an on.
As others said, sure the taxes are higher, but you get your moneys worth and the city is really blending together nicely. Obviously the biggest concerns are hurricanes and gentrification. Ironically though most of the people that have been pushed out have been pushed onto the highest land in the area so if there is a biblical flood they might be all that's left.
We've considered moving there recently. The problem is it's not the best city for our fields of work (we're both pretty specialized). We could get jobs there, but we would make about the same amount annually which would end up being a small pay cut with the higher COL :/
Here are some pics I've taken recently.
(https://i.imgur.com/jjEdzd3.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/3IhIjSO.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/CH2HAko.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/eR0dZQx.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/IgPkviK.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZNmbusm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ckoLmLj.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/sGjWLBj.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/fR0FipV.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/XAH40TJ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/QzyEoB7.jpg)
Wow! Beautiful collection of photographs. Great work!
Quote from: jaxjaguar on September 06, 2021, 01:55:09 PM
As a Jacksonville native I remember my entire family trash talking Miami while growing up. We never visited and it was always described to me as overcrowded, impossible to get around, expensive, gross, crime filled, etc... Sadly I kind of believed that into my 20's. Finally made a trip down there for my 29th birthday a few years ago and man, it's the exact opposite of what I had been told. Super diverse neighborhoods not just culturally or finacially but stylistically too, friendly people, so many great food options from every price point and culture, amazing parks, by far the best public transit in the state, the beaches are incredible, I could go on an on.
As others said, sure the taxes are higher, but you get your moneys worth and the city is really blending together nicely. Obviously the biggest concerns are hurricanes and gentrification. Ironically though most of the people that have been pushed out have been pushed onto the highest land in the area so if there is a biblical flood they might be all that's left.
We've considered moving there recently. The problem is it's not the best city for our fields of work (we're both pretty specialized). We could get jobs there, but we would make about the same amount annually which would end up being a small pay cut with the higher COL :/
Here are some pics I've taken recently.
(https://i.imgur.com/jjEdzd3.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/3IhIjSO.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/CH2HAko.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/eR0dZQx.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/IgPkviK.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZNmbusm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ckoLmLj.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/sGjWLBj.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/fR0FipV.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/XAH40TJ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/QzyEoB7.jpg)
To each their own!
So glad I no longer live at my Native Miami.
I am inclined to Northern California.
As a native Miamian I recall some dinner time conversations....... trash talking Jacksonville after a recent family visit; Jacksonville was " Cruddy".
When my parents Fled Miami for NE Florida they landed at a county adjacent to Duval.
For years I have given Duval the benefit of the Doubt.
It's a hilarious narrative.
Carl Hiaasen nailed me down well in his Editorial " Jacksonville's Millionth Mania" editorial, a piece profiled in his book " Kick Ass".
It must be nice to have a city where the architects, and those who hire them, aren't afraid to think outside the rectangular boxy grey or bronze building.
Quote from: jaxjaguar on September 06, 2021, 01:55:09 PM
As a Jacksonville native I remember my entire family trash talking Miami while growing up. We never visited and it was always described to me as overcrowded, impossible to get around, expensive, gross, crime filled, etc... Sadly I kind of believed that into my 20's. Finally made a trip down there for my 29th birthday a few years ago and man, it's the exact opposite of what I had been told. Super diverse neighborhoods not just culturally or finacially but stylistically too, friendly people, so many great food options from every price point and culture, amazing parks, by far the best public transit in the state, the beaches are incredible, I could go on an on.
As others said, sure the taxes are higher, but you get your moneys worth and the city is really blending together nicely. Obviously the biggest concerns are hurricanes and gentrification. Ironically though most of the people that have been pushed out have been pushed onto the highest land in the area so if there is a biblical flood they might be all that's left.
We've considered moving there recently. The problem is it's not the best city for our fields of work (we're both pretty specialized). We could get jobs there, but we would make about the same amount annually which would end up being a small pay cut with the higher COL :/
Here are some pics I've taken recently.
Fantastic post. I have a very similar experience as well from growing up in Jax. It's funny, but the place with the worst impression of Miami in the entire world is Jacksonville, Florida. It's a playground for the world's rich and famous and full of amazing areas, but to people in Jax, it's a cesspool. I was at the same conference Lake was just at (sorry we didn't get to catch up) and was just laughing with a few people about how most people in Jacksonville are terrified to be in Miami, when in actuality, the murder rate in Jax is double that of Miami-Dade on a per capita basis.
The average Jaxson would be shocked to actually discover Miami and other parts of Florida. Miami Beach (outside of the Art Deco district and other touristy spots) is incredible. In Miami Beach, you have cool neighborhoods like Sunset Harbor and South of Fifth, along with great dining, amazing new and old architecture. A bike path (with citibike all over) that goes from one of the best waterfront parks in Florida (South Pointe Park) along the ocean five miles north to mid-beach (and will ultimately go 10 miles).
Then elsewhere in Miami-Dade, you have one of the coolest neighborhood in Florida in Wynwood. Great upscale historic neighborhoods like Coconut Grove and Coral Gables. Possibly the best collection of architecture and design in Florida in the Design District. Affluent areas unlike anything in north Florida in Fisher Island, Bal Harbour, Golden Beach, etc. Historic ethnic enclaves like Little Havana, Overtown, and Little Haiti. A stretch of high rises from Brickell all the way to north to Midtown/Edgewater with amazing architecture and increasing vibrancy at street level. Massive commercial area like Aventura, Dadeland, and Doral. Laid back single-family neighborhoods like Pinecrest and Cutler Bay. Since moving to Palm Beach County, I've spent a lot of time in Miami, but I'm sure I'm leaving off tons of other cool spots.
I've said it before, but will say it for the millionth time. Jax's leaders need to visit Miami, St. Pete, Sarasota, West Palm Beach, Tampa, Fort Lauderdale, and Orlando, not all the random out of state towns they visit. Everything you need to learn about planning and development in Florida can be found in...Florida.
Quote from: Charles Hunter on September 06, 2021, 08:54:12 PM
It must be nice to have a city where the architects, and those who hire them, aren't afraid to think outside the rectangular boxy grey or bronze building.
Miami also created a visionary and forward thinking form-based code called Miami 2021 that has helped lead to better urban design and developments downtown and elsewhere. They hired world-renowned firm Duany Plater-Zyberk as their lead consultant and other well regarded firms as subs to create their plan in 2009. They are now reaping the rewards.
Miami (and most big cities in Florida) would NEVER allow things like the "conceptual site plan" for the TU site or the massive box on the River City Brewing Company site. It's ultimately up to the City and it's leaders as the shapers of public policy and community character to push for better design, imo.
I'm still surprised more cities haven't followed the Miami 21 example. You can clearly see the change taking place throughout the city of Miami.
It's incredible to me how the metromover and skyway were built at the same time, but development around them went in completely different directions. We used the metromover every day when we stayed in Brickell a few months ago. It stops at all of the major attractions, serves several key dense clusters spots for residents/hotels and businesses. And had been so successful Miami is working on expansions both northward and east towards the beaches. It also connects with the commuter rail stations.
Meanwhile Jax has been trying to tear ours down for years, created massive surface lots around all but 2 of the stations and spent too much time and money trying to convert the tracks / reinvent the wheel with an unproven autonomous layout.
When you look at the satellite view of the clustering around each metromover station vs the skyway stations it's sickening. Riverplace station, San Marco station, Jefferson station, central station are immediately next to 1 building each... 2 of those stations at least have a parking garage by them but what's the point of the monorail when it only serves parking lots and garages. Some of those individually served buildings aren't even high rises.
The city needs to purchase the land and garages around every station except for kings Ave and the new JTA terminal and work out deals with some builders to build as dense as possible residential / mixed use on those sites. Even if it means paying someone to do the first one or two. Once some investors saw the success others would come and good urban planning could keep their projects in line.
^I've always felt that before we worry about expanding the Skyway, we need to be coordinating land use around our existing Skyway stations and building as much TOD around them as possible. Over the years, I've come to the conclusion that it isn't the infrastructure or market that doesn't stop these natural things from happening. Instead its generally local politics and there's too many unnecessary hands in the downtown revitalization cookie jar.
Quote from: jaxjaguar on September 07, 2021, 08:56:53 PM
It's incredible to me how the metromover and skyway were built at the same time, but development around them went in completely different directions. We used the metromover every day when we stayed in Brickell a few months ago. It stops at all of the major attractions, serves several key dense clusters spots for residents/hotels and businesses. And had been so successful Miami is working on expansions both northward and east towards the beaches. It also connects with the commuter rail stations.
Meanwhile Jax has been trying to tear ours down for years, created massive surface lots around all but 2 of the stations and spent too much time and money trying to convert the tracks / reinvent the wheel with an unproven autonomous layout.
When you look at the satellite view of the clustering around each metromover station vs the skyway stations it's sickening. Riverplace station, San Marco station, Jefferson station, central station are immediately next to 1 building each... 2 of those stations at least have a parking garage by them but what's the point of the monorail when it only serves parking lots and garages. Some of those individually served buildings aren't even high rises.
The city needs to purchase the land and garages around every station except for kings Ave and the new JTA terminal and work out deals with some builders to build as dense as possible residential / mixed use on those sites. Even if it means paying someone to do the first one or two. Once some investors saw the success others would come and good urban planning could keep their projects in line.
JTA completed a TOD study (http://u2ctod.jtafla.com) for the U2C a few months ago, and it includes some cool renderings (of course) of big buildings and some intriguing thinking towards developing the area around most of the stations, but it isn't really clear where or how they plan to take it from there. Especially with the U2C timelines constantly wavering, they might as well get the TOD stuff in place with the assurance that the infrastructure isn't going anywhere, whatever happens.
I think Lake or someone else has pointed out before that where Miami actually made the Metromover the focus of its downtown efforts (with the added bonus of actually building the regional feeder systems to support it in Metrorail and Tri-Rail), Jacksonville basically built the Skyway and then immediately ran away from it, between developing the beltway, supporting the movement of offices to the suburbs (which they continue to do), actively demolishing density near stations, and generally refusing to plan around it. We spent billions of dollars anywhere but downtown, save for the occasional bone of investment, and then were
shocked to learn that downtown didn't improve. Meanwhile Miami and others were going above and beyond.
How is U2C supposed to encourage or support TOD? The whole point of Autonomous Vehicles is that they aren't bound by fixed facilities.
^The U2C is completely counterproductive to the concept of TOD. Any claims to it stimulating TOD are unfounded wishes and selling of wolf tickets at this point. Here's some Miami Metrorail TOD from a tour I took last week. Miami-Dade Transit has gotten pretty aggressive with the construction of TOD around its transit stations. Even going as far as building student housing near the University of Miami on top of an existing park n ride garage:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-Q64QSms/0/XL/i-Q64QSms-XL.jpg)
The Metromover from the 26th floor of the JW Marriott Marquis in Downtown Miami.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-BNtGTC8/0/XL/i-BNtGTC8-XL.jpg)
Metrorail's Brickell Station.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-rC4JDkC/0/XL/i-rC4JDkC-XL.jpg)
Metrorail's Douglas Road Station.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-zFPZQn2/0/XL/i-zFPZQn2-XL.jpg)
Metrorail's Douglas Road Station.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-tmKZdjR/0/XL/i-tmKZdjR-XL.jpg)
Student housing sitting on top of Metrorail's South Miami Station parking garage.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-4KD8gwW/0/XL/i-4KD8gwW-XL.jpg)
A first mile last mile solution in play at Metrorail stations already. This is essentially the U2C with a driver.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-LhM4G8R/0/XL/i-LhM4G8R-XL.jpg)
Downtown Dadeland TOD at Metrorail's Dadeland-South station.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-R6BWGVZ/0/XL/i-R6BWGVZ-XL.jpg)
Passing TOD at Metrorail's Dadeland-North station.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-2wcwzm5/0/XL/i-2wcwzm5-XL.jpg)
TOD around Metrorail's Brickell station.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-JzxCk7s/0/XL/i-JzxCk7s-XL.jpg)
Metrorail's Miami Intermodal Center station. Here, you can rent a car, take an automated people mover to the airport terminal, go downstairs and catch Tri-Rail to Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach or take Metrorail to Hialeah, downtown Miami, Brickell, Coconut Grove, Coral Gables, South Miami and Kendall.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-RGktZMB/0/XL/i-RGktZMB-XL.jpg)
Inside a Metrorail car.
In short, I believe there is a lot we can do to maximize what we already have. As of now, we have eight stations and another proposed in Brooklyn. Those things should have a couple thousand units of multifamily over them or immediately adjacent to them by now.
Quote from: thelakelander on September 07, 2021, 11:37:17 PM
^The U2C is completely counterproductive to the concept of TOD. Any claims to it stimulating TOD are unfounded wishes and selling of wolf tickets at this point. Here's some Miami Metrorail TOD from a tour I took last week. Miami-Dade Transit has gotten pretty aggressive with the construction of TOD around its transit stations. Even going as far as building student housing near the University of Miami on top of an existing park n ride garage:
I remember Bernard Schmidt insisting that some company either in Jacksonville or relocating to Jacksonville wanted to have a U2C stop inside their lobby. I don't think I've heard a word of it since.
Which reminds me, now that Bay Street is out of the bidding process I wonder if they have any new evidence of how this all somehow supposed to work that they weren't willing to give before. We know they're working with Beep, which means they're either using the Olli and Navya shuttles they have now or designing a new one based on those. But seeing as they're only at 30% design and they still need to select "technologies that will make the U2C function," I imagine they still just don't have a whole lot of detail.
It's still frustrating because they went so far as to spend all that money on the study and it doesn't seem to say much anyway, other than "building stuff near the existing Skyway infrastructure at JRTC and Rosa Parks is good, and also the Shipyards & District/RiversEdge".
Quote from: thelakelander on September 07, 2021, 11:37:17 PM
In short, I believe there is a lot we can do to maximize what we already have. As of now, we have eight stations and another proposed in Brooklyn. Those things should have a couple thousand units of multifamily over them or immediately adjacent to them by now.
The frustration, as always, remains that instead of making sure the Skyway would be a reliable option with needed improvements to focus that TOD around, JTA is burning over a quarter-billion dollars to experiment. Already we've gone through five years we could have spent making the investments we needed to keep the Skyway going. But alas, I guess we're committed for whatever forsaken reason.
To get back on track somewhat, I wonder what a "Jax 21" plan would need to look like to repeat at least some elements of Miami's success. I heard form-based code, which seems like a good first step. Assuming we can't do anything about the U2C, is there anything else we could try and have JTA do for effective transportation?
I'm sure an immediate challenge is going to be the fact that Jacksonville is bigger than Downtown, how do we loop in or best serve other neighborhoods?
Quote from: CityLife on September 07, 2021, 04:17:02 PM
Quote from: Charles Hunter on September 06, 2021, 08:54:12 PM
It must be nice to have a city where the architects, and those who hire them, aren't afraid to think outside the rectangular boxy grey or bronze building.
Miami also created a visionary and forward thinking form-based code called Miami 2021 that has helped lead to better urban design and developments downtown and elsewhere. They hired world-renowned firm Duany Plater-Zyberk as their lead consultant and other well regarded firms as subs to create their plan in 2009. They are now reaping the rewards.
Miami (and most big cities in Florida) would NEVER allow things like the "conceptual site plan" for the TU site or the massive box on the River City Brewing Company site. It's ultimately up to the City and it's leaders as the shapers of public policy and community character to push for better design, imo.
Here! Here! A city that demands creativity and some standard for aesthetics, not just throwing incentives to developers to build another boxy, suburban style structure that no one will even notice when going by it. Hard to ignore a lot of the buildings pictured. The architecture is an attraction in and of itself. On par with NYC based on these samples. Maybe even more avant garde given the skyline consists of so many recent additions. Probably what NYC was to the art deco period.
Jax leaders don't understand that great architecture (1) promotes economic development as it draws its own masses to it and attracts trend setters to settle here, either companies or residents (2) by being iconic creates a unique identity for the city to be proud of (3) adds value to the structure itself and to the area surrounding it adding to the tax base (4) brings energy, buzz and excitement to the urban core 24/7 and (5) acts as a catalyst and inspiration for others to follow by raising the bar.
Regardless of what you think about the LERP sculpture, the buzz it has created in the City suggests it's on the mark for why it should go forward. No iconic structures exist without controversy but that controversy is derived from how they demand attention, good or bad, which, ultimately, gives them the title of "iconic." Frequently, over time, the public begins to "adopt" such controversial structures with affection. It just takes getting used to them - getting over the "shock" of their initial presence. Much of our "great" art today was not fully appreciated at it's inception, be it paintings, sculpture, music, theater, structures, fashion, etc. As they say, time cures all.
What we have now reflects the City as conservative/not progressive, boring, lacking creativity, risk avoidant, not having its act together and not forward thinkers/leaders. I would say that it's a good representation of where we have been up to now. Another reason to promote great architecture - to project the City's "personality" in a more favorable light.
^meanwhile Jax leadership is so short sighted that they're willing to spend nearly a billion "revitalizing" a fountain for the 3rd time in 2 decades, a giant "derp" sculpture, dropping structures left and right and putting up cookie cutter suburban style apartment complexes with some colorful stucco slapped on.
The Publix project that was just approved in San Marco is another example of poor leadership and caving to nimby's. Mid town Miami and North East St Pete are great examples of mixed use suburban blend. I'll post some photo examples in a few weeks when we go back.
Miami really is in such a different league nowadays. Beautiful pictures. That Douglas Road picture doesn't even show the big towers that are there now.
It's not completely the same thing as Miami 21 but Jacksonville did have a 2030 Mobility Plan that was supposed to improve public transportation and lead to better land use by collecting fees from developments that didn't align with those principles. Unfortunately, city council put a moratorium on fee collection for a few years and I'm pretty sure the plan is now completely dead.
Jacksonville's 2030 Mobility Plan (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-apr-jacksonvilles-2030-mobility-plan)
The Mobility Plan: A Vision for Jacksonville (https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2012-oct-the-mobility-plan-a-vision-for-jacksonville)
The Mobility Fee Compromise: Winners & Losers (https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-apr-the-mobility-fee-compromise-winners-losers/page/)
Nothing will change until leadership changes, and the majority of the city just doesn't seem to care. I've learned not to expect anything.