(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Jacksonville-Landing-Park-Competition-/i-TZDhZsT/0/558a70f9/L/PerkinsWill_Jacksonville_02-L.jpg)
Quote
Whatever it represents, the proposed 151-foot sculpture is the centerpiece of the recently awarded Landing replacement plans. But recent comments from the Downtown Investment Authority and a dive into the decision making process suggest it may not be in the cards at all.
Read More: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/wait-is-lerp-not-actually-happening/
It will be shocking if it ends up anything more than Lenny's Lawn.
I love having an overgrown and patchy grass lawn as the centerpiece of our downtown for years to come #jaxontherise
At least maintain it and put some benches or something out there in the meantime until (if) we actually do something with the space. It's literally a deadzone in its current state
As someone who deals with contracts at the federal level these RFPs and stuff the city puts out seem a bit lost. I mean how can you even do this without putting out a budget? I mean, wtf is that?
Being a numbers geek, I looked at the two scoring sheets.
First, since the sheets clearly call for averaging Boyer's and Joseph's scores, why were their scores treated individually? And, recorded as averaged against a zero score of the other person?
Anyway, Boyer and Joseph split on their #1 - Boyer picking Perkins/Will, giving them 7 more points than her #2, the Agency group. Joseph reversed that, giving Agency only 2 more points than Perkins/Will. They agreed that the OLIN Partnership was #3, by a considerable margin.
If "DERP, The Iconic Art Piece" may not even be part of the design, and we take out that factor, which was worth 20 of the 115 points, Agency becomes the #1 on both rating sheets. And by a slightly greater margin than P/W won with the DERP Factor.
Find some money to do this properly and proceed. Take money form the Bay Street Corridor project. Much better use for park. All evaluations such as these are biased by the evaluators ideas on what a park should encompass. Same with the statue. That is what art is supposed to do. It challenges the viewer to interpret what it means. That is what has been happening with this art. The "meaning is in the eye of the beholder". I would rather have this than some fancy bridge over a pond.
I believe funds for the Bay Street Project are transportation oriented and can't be used to fund public art.
I know. Was just being sarcastic that we can fund clown cars, but not a world class park.
Quote from: Zac T on September 01, 2021, 01:15:37 PM
I love having an overgrown and patchy grass lawn as the centerpiece of our downtown for years to come #jaxontherise
At least maintain it and put some benches or something out there in the meantime until (if) we actually do something with the space. It's literally a deadzone in its current state
I agree. God knows how long before anything permanent goes in place there. Maybe have some pop-up shops, routine programming. Something, anything that can drive some foot traffic.
Quote from: Charles Hunter on September 01, 2021, 01:25:52 PM
If "DERP, The Iconic Art Piece" may not even be part of the design, and we take out that factor, which was worth 20 of the 115 points, Agency becomes the #1 on both rating sheets. And by a slightly greater margin than P/W won with the DERP Factor.
Not only that, but since P/W centered their design around the art, you'd have to imagine its omission would negatively impact their score in other areas. Wouldn't "Innovation and Creativity" of the design take a hit? "Integration of Art, Landscape, and Programming in a buildable design" -- absent art, certainly that gets docked. Not to mention, you're left with a large hole in the park that was meant to be the focal point of the entire project. I'm not even getting into the merits of the statue design, but something has to fill that space.
Quote from: acme54321 on September 01, 2021, 01:21:12 PM
As someone who deals with contracts at the federal level these RFPs and stuff the city puts out seem a bit lost. I mean how can you even do this without putting out a budget? I mean, wtf is that?
It's ironic that bidders were scored on the "Understanding of Permitting Requirements, Scope and Design Requirements" when there was no budget provided. It seems the DIA wasn't even clear on the requirements. Heading into this thing, it seemed like the DIA had confidence there would be support to proceed on the timetable they laid out. Clearly, that was not the case, and we have more fancy renderings headed out to pasture. Maybe a "renderings graveyard" could be the uniquely Jacksonville art piece? Cute little headstones, one for each fizzled idea, and a large obelisk for Lot J? It'd be pretty meta to pay homage to all the dead Landing renderings at the site of the dead Landing.
QuoteMaybe a "renderings graveyard" could be the uniquely Jacksonville art piece? Cute little headstones, one for each fizzled idea, and a large obelisk for Lot J? It'd be pretty meta to pay homage to all the dead Landing renderings at the site of the dead Landing.
I think you may have hit on something there.
The only problem I see is that 7 acres (or whatever it is) might not be enough space.
I've heard Ms. Boyer mention that fundraising would be necessary to fund the art center piece. That may not be in an official release, but it hasn't been a secret.
Quote from: jaxjags on September 01, 2021, 01:36:07 PM
Find some money to do this properly and proceed.
Wish I remembered who exactly, but I believe that in the first Parks & Quality of Life special committee meeting, someone of note inferred that part of the $100 million designated for parks should be used to improve one of our public spaces into a world class center piece park. I assumed he meant Riverfront Plaza.
"FIND SOME MONEY TO DO THIS PROPERLY AND PROCEED;" Amen!!! I understand what's going on, but what I don't understand is the feeling that I get from them of just "giving up" and not even trying to either get something cheaper and affordable there, or siphon money from other sources (if we can) to fund one of these selected 3 projects for Riverfront Plaza (btw I like that name); if we can't get the #1, then take another look at #2 and #3. Curry is really beginning to worry me and work my nerves simultaneously.
Something tells me this is a money thing, the City doesn't have the money (now and of late), and Shad Khan has something to do with the City not being able to commit to this project/development. I could be wrong, and, I could be right; and...if it's not Khan, it's somebody or something that has siphoned money away and now the City cannot and does not want to commit to this project. Could be.......
How can the City find tens or hundreds of millions for Khan's self-interested projects or the doomed-to-fail U2C project and not something like this that would be iconic for the City and of use by most everyone living here? I would suggest if the community wanted it that the City could find the dollars as it does for anything the Mayor wants. It's all about priorities.
Also, was this decided based on votes by only two people? I thought there were at least a couple of more involved. Seems that a major decision like this would be in front of a decent sized committee representing a range of community perspectives. It should also have followed a few community town halls with presentations by the bidders and a public Q & A.
I would also flip this around and ask what the heck Curry expects to get for the funds he budgeted. How did he come up with his numbers?
It all seems so arbitrary, lacking transparency and poorly executed. Mimics Lot J in many ways.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on September 01, 2021, 11:13:33 PM
How can the City find tens or hundreds of millions for Khan's self-interested projects or the doomed-to-fail U2C project and not something like this that would be iconic for the City and of use by most everyone living here? I would suggest if the community wanted it that the City could find the dollars as it does for anything the Mayor wants. It's all about priorities.
Also, was this decided based on votes by only two people? I thought there were at least a couple of more involved. Seems that a major decision like this would be in front of a decent sized committee representing a range of community perspectives. It should also have followed a few community town halls with presentations by the bidders and a public Q & A.
I would also flip this around and ask what the heck Curry expects to get for the funds he budgeted. How did he come up with his numbers?
It all seems so arbitrary, lacking transparency and the poorly executed. Mimics Lot J in many ways.
It's very early in the process, people. The scope, design, costs, budget etc aren't firm, all subject to change.
I believe the only thing that was decided, was that Perkins & Will would be the lead firm working on the project, based on their vision concept design. Vision concept designs often change, sometimes substantially (see Daily's Place), so I'd expect changes once everything is firmed up.
For example, I highly doubt a natural shoreline will be installed where COJ *just finished* rebuilding the docks.
I think they need to develop a series of regularly scheduled events, even if it's monthly like Art Walk Wednesdays. Just make use of the space.
Quote from: fsu813 on September 02, 2021, 07:00:42 AM
It's very early in the process, people. The scope, design, costs, budget etc aren't firm, all subject to change.
I believe the only thing that was decided, was that Perkins & Will would be the lead firm working on the project, based on their vision concept design. Vision concept designs often change, sometimes substantially (see Daily's Place), so I'd expect changes once everything is firmed up.
For example, I highly doubt a natural shoreline will be installed where COJ *just finished* rebuilding the docks.
That's all fair; I think the concern (at least mine, as a layperson) is once again process-oriented. The DIA made such a big deal about and awarded so many points on the basis of the art installation. It was so important that it ultimately determined the winner and, as I said previously, their scores on other areas of the rubric would likely suffer without the art installation. The living shoreline, the design of the civic building (if it even gets built), precise budget, exact layout, details on the positioning/size/finish of the art piece -- all of that I reasonably expected to be up for debate. But selecting the designer because of the art piece, and then suggesting very early the art may not happen and isn't that important anyway, is just bad process: putting the cart before the horse because DIA wanted to demonstrate progress, before they knew what they really wanted. And it feels like we've once again burned an RFP bidder (Agency) who acted in good faith to hit the publicly-stated budget ballpark by awarding the contract to a competitor who was far more expensive
entirely because of the art piece we are now so ambivalent about.
P/W has the capacity to design and deliver a very nice park, with or without the art. I'm not doomsaying on that front, but no art sends them backwards to fill that hole. With all of the hype and subsequent equivocating up to this point, I don't begrudge anyone drawing parallels to past mistakes.
P.S. -- Credit where it's due to Heights Unknown--I think you were advocating for Agency from the beginning because you believed we would never commit to seeing the P/W vision through, no?
" Maybe a "renderings graveyard" could be the uniquely Jacksonville art piece? Cute little headstones, one for each fizzled idea, and a large obelisk for Lot J? It'd be pretty meta to pay homage to all the dead Landing renderings at the site of the dead Landing."
"I think you may have hit on something there.
The only problem I see is that 7 acres (or whatever it is) might not be enough space."
Hysterical, and yet 100% spot on. I love it.
QuoteVision concept designs often change, sometimes substantially (see Daily's Place), so I'd expect changes once everything is firmed up.
Well, THAT's certainly not comforting.
So why do we pay consultants to enter a design contest, choose a winner that has a sculpture the is unique, then decide that city agencies will change the design. Again this sounds like Jax. Sure we shouldn't remove docks for a shoreline redesign and we need to keep the building pads, but we don't need to redesign! Again, if you want a world class park, you will have to pay for a world class park ( and more important MAINTAIN it).
Quote from: vicupstate on September 02, 2021, 12:45:07 PM
QuoteVision concept designs often change, sometimes substantially (see Daily's Place), so I'd expect changes once everything is firmed up.
Well, THAT's certainly not comforting.
In this instance it kind of is...
Also, if we are going to spend $15mil on a sculpture, why not a gorgeous $15mil. rendition of Augusta Savage's "The Harp"?
The Harp is already funded and will be placed in a park in LaVilla near the Ritz Museum.
QuoteNew chief resiliency officer: Park design at former Landing site 'in flux'
During a bill-signing ceremony Sept. 23 with Mayor Lenny Curry finalizing her appointment, Coglianese told reporters she is giving input on Riverfront Plaza's design to the Downtown Investment Authority and architectural firm Perkins & Wills Inc.
"The design is not final. It's going to be changed," Coglianese said.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/new-chief-resiliency-officer-park-design-at-former-landing-site-in-flux
It's going to be Lenny's Lawn for a looooong time
Quote from: thelakelander on September 24, 2021, 07:58:10 AM
QuoteNew chief resiliency officer: Park design at former Landing site 'in flux'
During a bill-signing ceremony Sept. 23 with Mayor Lenny Curry finalizing her appointment, Coglianese told reporters she is giving input on Riverfront Plaza's design to the Downtown Investment Authority and architectural firm Perkins & Wills Inc.
"The design is not final. It's going to be changed," Coglianese said.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/new-chief-resiliency-officer-park-design-at-former-landing-site-in-flux
You would think resiliency would be one of the factors, all along, in evaluating the proposals along the waterfront or on other City controlled properties. Does this mean she is going to review again the entire development of the waterfront including Ford on Bay, the Shipyards, MOSH, the Four Seasons and Metro Park? What about at the stadium with Lot J, the practice facility and other future improvements to that area?
At the NEFAR meeting today, Lori Boyer gave a 2-3 year development timeline for the Landing Park. She also mentioned that they would like an art design committee to decide whether to work with Jefre and his plans for the Jax sculpture or to move forward with another artist altogether
Quote from: Zac T on September 24, 2021, 03:13:30 PM
At the NEFAR meeting today, Lori Boyer gave a 2-3 year development timeline for the Landing Park. She also mentioned that they would like an art design committee to decide whether to work with Jefre and his plans for the Jax sculpture or to move forward with another artist altogether
2-3 years? Hmm.
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She also mentioned that they would like an art design committee to decide whether to work with Jefre and his plans for the Jax sculpture or to move forward with another artist altogether
Wasn't Jefre's design a major factor in the DIA - and Boyer - selecting P&W?
Quote from: Charles Hunter on September 24, 2021, 03:48:08 PM
Quote
She also mentioned that they would like an art design committee to decide whether to work with Jefre and his plans for the Jax sculpture or to move forward with another artist altogether
Wasn't Jefre's design a major factor in the DIA - and Boyer - selecting P&W?
One of the things she mentioned as a major factor in choosing Perkins & Will was the pedestrian ramp from the Main Street Bridge and how it shields 2 stories of parking on the private development pad and integrated into its design. She seems to be supportive of the sculpture but it looks like they want to toss the final decision to somebody else
^Interesting. Well, the sculpture is definitely why it won, as without those points the bid would have gone to Agency.
Quote from: Tacachale on September 24, 2021, 03:44:54 PM
Quote from: Zac T on September 24, 2021, 03:13:30 PM
At the NEFAR meeting today, Lori Boyer gave a 2-3 year development timeline for the Landing Park. She also mentioned that they would like an art design committee to decide whether to work with Jefre and his plans for the Jax sculpture or to move forward with another artist altogether
2-3 years? Hmm.
Hmm wasn't this the timeline 2.5 years ago? Let me know when the money to construct is fully programmed in the budget. It's looking like another administration will have to figure this one out.
Can they proceed with the park design, with involvement of the new Resilience Officer, and leave a space for the sculpture whenever they settle on a design? Just make sure whatever is designed ("lerp" or something else) fits the pad?
I like the ramp up to the Main Street Bridge, too. It seems to be part of the park, rather than the typical switch-back ramp.
And away we go:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/city-approves-dollar1-7-million-design-contract-for-park-at-former-jacksonville-landing (https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/city-approves-dollar1-7-million-design-contract-for-park-at-former-jacksonville-landing)
They look to be doing exactly as Charles suggested:
QuoteThe deal does not include a final design-build contract for the park's proposed centerpiece "Jax" sculpture envisioned by Orlando-based international artist Jefrë Manuel.
The artist will negotiate a separate fee for the "iconic sculpture" design directly with the city, according to documents defining the initial project scope sent Nov. 30 from Perkins & Will to the city.
The agreement calls for an Iconic Art Review Committee to work with Jefrë in guiding and refining the sculpture.
...
DIA CEO Lori Boyer said Dec. 7 that officials have not decided who will make up the committee.
"So, the idea is to have a group of people with expertise in that field who can work with the artist on what the actual piece would be," she said.
The contract calls for the basic dimensions and size of the sculpture and design work on its pedestal and footings.
Other points in the article: Design must be complete by Feb 23, "pricing" with a deadline of May 27, and construction documents 100% complete by Nov 4. There have been no budget revisions.
OK. Alright. Uh huh.
So if not LERP, something?
"Officials have not decided who will make up the committee."
If ever a line summed up a city perfectly. Then once we have a committee we can have meetings about meetings and then vote to have a vote.
I wonder, if the park design specifies a pad for sculpture but we can't get our act together picking or funding the sculpture, does the whole thing just bog down and never go anywhere?
I do like the fact that they're moving somewhat quickly (lol) to RFP the private pads in February so that P+E and the selected developer(s) for the private pads can work in tandem on integrating their designs.
I also think a refined version of the original sculpture ends up happening, as it should, in the spirit of honoring the original RFP and not giving in to the trolls who had every opportunity to voice their opinion during the public listening phase and want to turn the entire thing into a meme based on one very specific view of the sculpture. There's only so much you can deviate from the general dimensions of the original sculpture included in the agreement.
Apparently property taxes from the private development pads will be used for upkeep on the park as well, which I like.
Can't see a scenario where this thing opens before 2025 though.
Park designs completed to 100% by end of 2022.
Private development design probably completed by maybe Q1 2023.
By the time we RFP the construction, we've gotta be looking at breaking ground in mid-2023.
18-months of combined construction for the park, private development, and art, and we're looking at maybe Q1 2025 as a best case for opening.