Quote(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Jacksonville-Shipyards-Park/i-zNDkMWn/0/40428c70/L/document_Page_27-L.jpg)
The Jessie Ball duPont Fund is helping to convene a series of conversations about how best to activate our city's downtown waterfront for the benefit of all of our residents and visitors. Here is a look at the public space planning principles and Shipyards conceptual plans developed as a part of these ongoing efforts.
Read More: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/activating-jacksonvilles-riverfront/
Per Nate Monroe, big CIP budget ($430 million) coming in for next year for septic tanks, downtown, and parks.
$100 million for parks over the next two years in the CIP, per the T-U.
That's a nice start.
https://amp.jacksonville.com/amp/7803110002?__twitter_impression=true
$25 million to relocate the Fairgrounds to the Westside as well.
Brian Hughes says it's to help the Fairgrounds grow and expand, but the Jags were also talking with Hughes about this space in the last year as well. No clue what the plan was, just the space. Will be interesting to see if the two are related.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on June 29, 2021, 09:19:28 PM
$100 million for parks over the next two years in the CIP, per the T-U.
That's a nice start.
https://amp.jacksonville.com/amp/7803110002?__twitter_impression=true
$25 million to relocate the Fairgrounds to the Westside as well.
Brian Hughes says it's to help the Fairgrounds grow and expand, but the Jags were also talking with Hughes about this space in the last year as well. No clue what the plan was, just the space. Will be interesting to see if the two are related.
I have a theory. Hear me out.
Adventure Landing inexplicably announces that both locations are going out of business almost immediately. The public mourns.
COJ announces the fairgrounds are being incentivized to move.....but why? There must be a interested stakeholder, a plan?
The whole "closing" thing was an intentional slight of hand. In fact, the two Adventure Landing's aren't closing at all, they're merging into one Mega Adventure Landing and moving TO THE FAIRGROUNDS! BOOM!
All part of the masterplan.
Bonus: COJ can reuse part of its "Landing" way finding signage and reference materials, for Adventure "Landing".
#masterplan #comeplaywithus #chess>checkers
^and you thought you were being funny ;D
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/adventure-landing-owners-looking-for-new-location (https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/adventure-landing-owners-looking-for-new-location)
QuoteThe Adventure Landing story does not permanently end here, as the owners are in the process of exploring other locations in the Jacksonville area to build another water park
Quote from: jaxoNOLE on June 30, 2021, 08:32:10 PM
^and you thought you were being funny ;D
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/adventure-landing-owners-looking-for-new-location (https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/adventure-landing-owners-looking-for-new-location)
QuoteThe Adventure Landing story does not permanently end here, as the owners are in the process of exploring other locations in the Jacksonville area to build another water park
All part of God's plan.
If they get in a bidding war with Khan/Iguana for the Fairgrounds, my bet is NOT with the Adventure Landing folks.
Quote from: Charles Hunter on July 01, 2021, 10:56:39 AM
If they get in a bidding war with Khan/Iguana for the Fairgrounds, my bet is NOT with the Adventure Landing folks.
Maybe they'll partner. We have swimming pools in the stadium, why not slides on the outside? JTA could sponsor the flagship slide, brand it the "U2Sea"
^ (Applause)
We were up on the rooftop of Estrella Cocina last night - a pretty odd set up they have with reservations only and you have to wait in this small, awkward, quiet room in the building entrance before having someone escort you to the elevator even though half the tables are open in the actual restaurant - but heard 2 very loud explosions probably around 9PM or so. Anyone else downtown last night and hear them? First one came from the big parking garage across the street as if someone set off a mortar in the garage itself. The 2nd one was probably a few blocks North off of Main St. Obviously nothing serious as we saw no police activity after the booms.
But for Estrella.. cool place. Still new so hopefully they don't continue with the odd reservation/wait situation as multiple people we spoke to there all agreed it was odd. The owner was also sitting on the outside patio and the hostess said we couldn't eat outside until the owner's group of 4 were finished. Also really odd. Food was pretty good and the spicy Marg was one of the best I've honestly ever had.
Quote from: WarDamJagFan on July 02, 2021, 07:53:09 AM
The owner was also sitting on the outside patio and the hostess said we couldn't eat outside until the owner's group of 4 were finished. Also really odd.
That is not a good sign...Not how you treat paying guests.
I believe the reservation thing has something to do with not having enough staff at the moment.
I went Wednesday and for the most part the roof deck was not being utilized. It's open, no shelter (that I saw) and when a few folks did get seated out there they were chased in by an errant downpour, not a lot of rain but enough to want to get out of it....
The food was good, it's new, so they are probably still working out the kinks of preparation, timing and service. I will go back. The entire building is nice, as VyStar is kicking it up a couple of notches downtown.
Speaking of activating Jax downtown, this place in St Louis is pretty cool: https://www.citymuseum.org/
Quote from: MusicMan on July 02, 2021, 12:48:19 PM
I went Wednesday and for the most part the roof deck was not being utilized. It's open, no shelter (that I saw) and when a few folks did get seated out there they were chased in by an errant downpour, not a lot of rain but enough to want to get out of it....
The food was good, it's new, so they are probably still working out the kinks of preparation, timing and service. I will go back. The entire building is nice, as VyStar is kicking it up a couple of notches downtown.
Speaking of activating Jax downtown, this place in St Louis is pretty cool: https://www.citymuseum.org/
Yeah I'll definitely go back. I don't find it fair to really place any sort of expectations on a restaurant that's brand new. Food quality was certainly there, the atmosphere on the deck should improve over time. Just a few things seemed off is all but again, it's brand new. What I couldn't get over is how borderline-cool the temperature was last night. Felt more like a late October evening vs smack-dab-middle-of-Summer. It's been relatively mild all Summer really. Guess we can thank the great NW for taking on our heat burden!
Quote from: MusicMan on July 02, 2021, 12:48:19 PM
I went Wednesday and for the most part the roof deck was not being utilized. It's open, no shelter (that I saw) and when a few folks did get seated out there they were chased in by an errant downpour, not a lot of rain but enough to want to get out of it....
The food was good, it's new, so they are probably still working out the kinks of preparation, timing and service. I will go back. The entire building is nice, as VyStar is kicking it up a couple of notches downtown.
Speaking of activating Jax downtown, this place in St Louis is pretty cool: https://www.citymuseum.org/
I visited this place 10 years or so ago. I was very impressed. It was like an urban MOSH housed in the Laura Street Trio. Here are a few pictures from that visit:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-fFsmx8b/1/L/i-fFsmx8b-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-SD5fDt3/1/L/i-SD5fDt3-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-PjP7Rsr/1/L/i-PjP7Rsr-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-RKWpWxL/1/L/i-RKWpWxL-L.jpg)
Quote from: WarDamJagFan on July 02, 2021, 07:53:09 AM
We were up on the rooftop of Estrella Cocina last night - a pretty odd set up they have with reservations only and you have to wait in this small, awkward, quiet room in the building entrance before having someone escort you to the elevator even though half the tables are open in the actual restaurant - but heard 2 very loud explosions probably around 9PM or so. Anyone else downtown last night and hear them? First one came from the big parking garage across the street as if someone set off a mortar in the garage itself. The 2nd one was probably a few blocks North off of Main St. Obviously nothing serious as we saw no police activity after the booms.
But for Estrella.. cool place. Still new so hopefully they don't continue with the odd reservation/wait situation as multiple people we spoke to there all agreed it was odd. The owner was also sitting on the outside patio and the hostess said we couldn't eat outside until the owner's group of 4 were finished. Also really odd. Food was pretty good and the spicy Marg was one of the best I've honestly ever had.
My wife and I had a similar experience in New York recently where tons of tables were available but we had to wait 20 minutes to be seated because there were too few staff to serve everyone. Felt a bit odd sitting in the waiting area looking at empty tables, but the wait did chase a few customers off.
Odd to me that there's still such a vocal crowd against the Jags' Four Seasons proposal because it will be built on the Kids Campus space.
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/opinion/columns/guest/2021/07/06/guest-column-concerns-using-met-park-exclusive-private-development/7841677002/
Feels like swapping the smaller Kids Campus space with a larger Shipyards park parcel, with at least three times the river frontage, and committing to both building out a signature park there and restoring and programming Met Park is a huge win from a parks perspective.
I'm not surprised, especially since there's no master plan for these spaces and competing visions of what they should become. You'll never get 100% buy in, especially when it comes to developing existing park space. It's likely a mix of setting the precedence of developing on park land, as who the developer is, moreso than if the replacement is suitable or not. My guess is if you asked, there would be people out there that would want to keep Kids Kampus and turn the Shipyards into park space.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on July 06, 2021, 10:58:15 AM
Odd to me that there's still such a vocal crowd against the Jags' Four Seasons proposal because it will be built on the Kids Campus space.
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/opinion/columns/guest/2021/07/06/guest-column-concerns-using-met-park-exclusive-private-development/7841677002/
Feels like swapping the smaller Kids Campus space with a larger Shipyards park parcel, with at least three times the river frontage, and committing to both building out a signature park there and restoring and programming Met Park is a huge win from a parks perspective.
Many are of the view that we should have contiguous green space and substantial building setbacks along the river. Plopping the Four Seasons in the middle of Metro Park and the Shipyards up to the edge of the river contravenes these tenets.
There are plenty of Four Seasons not on a waterfront that do just fine. That said, if it was across the street from riverfront parkland, it would have both an added amenity and a riverfront view to offer guests given it would be a multistory building.
The below guest column in the Times Union this past week by Riverfront Parks Now summarizes this point of view best:
QuoteOur last best chance for a Jacksonville riverfront for all
Downtown Jacksonville is clearly at a defining crossroads, and we implore city leaders to recognize what is at stake: the last, best chance to create a "Riverfront for All."
Jacksonville should follow the lead of cities that have successfully combined signature riverfront parks, connected trails and well-designed Riverwalks to attract residents, visitors, events, and developer investment, while also providing protection from sea level rise and flooding.
This proven approach will cost less and give us more, especially since the city already owns riverfront land. Riverfront parks yield returns on investment that are superior and long term. What's more, they improve the quality of life for city-wide residents of all socio-economic groups.
Other river cities have faced similar forks in the road. Civic, business and elected leaders from these cities, including Chattanooga, St. Petersburg and Greenville, have all recognized the wisdom of their decisions to prioritize public space. In fact, these destinations have become great sources of civic pride and economic growth.
We can, and should, do the same thing for Jacksonville. Now is the time to ask City Council leaders to implement this 10-point path.
1. Prioritize public space. First and foremost, prioritize and invest in meaningful public riverfront parks and green spaces.
2. Go big, world-class, and inclusive. Engage a world-class urban design firm to design a 40+ acre connected park between Metropolitan Park and the Shipyards. We need spaces that are welcoming and accessible to all people and provide ways for our community to come together with a variety of desired amenities and activities.
Downtown Jacksonville is clearly at a defining crossroads, and we implore city leaders to recognize what is at stake: the last, best chance to create a "Riverfront for All."
Jacksonville should follow the lead of cities that have successfully combined signature riverfront parks, connected trails and well-designed Riverwalks to attract residents, visitors, events, and developer investment, while also providing protection from sea level rise and flooding.
This proven approach will cost less and give us more, especially since the city already owns riverfront land. Riverfront parks yield returns on investment that are superior and long term. What's more, they improve the quality of life for city-wide residents of all socio-economic groups.
Other river cities have faced similar forks in the road. Civic, business and elected leaders from these cities, including Chattanooga, St. Petersburg and Greenville, have all recognized the wisdom of their decisions to prioritize public space. In fact, these destinations have become great sources of civic pride and economic growth.
We can, and should, do the same thing for Jacksonville. Now is the time to ask City Council leaders to implement this 10-point path.
1. Prioritize public space. First and foremost, prioritize and invest in meaningful public riverfront parks and green spaces.
2. Go big, world-class, and inclusive. Engage a world-class urban design firm to design a 40+ acre connected park between Metropolitan Park and the Shipyards. We need spaces that are welcoming and accessible to all people and provide ways for our community to come together with a variety of desired amenities and activities.
3. Promote connectivity. Preserve a generous and continuous ribbon of green spaces and connected parks and trails along the Northbank to allow for multiple paths for bikers and pedestrians, shade and landscaping. These paths should connect to the Emerald Trail and all downtown destinations including the Southbank.
4. Let our river breathe. It is essential to significantly expand the setbacks from 25' to 175' for new development proposed for city-owned property along the St. Johns River to allow for a natural green buffer to protect against flooding.
5. Utilize green resilient solutions. Implement proven green solutions for stormwater management and to mitigate sea-level rise, storm surge and climate change. Incorporate plenty of shade trees to protect against the heat, add beauty, and help slow and filter runoff.
6. Don't block our existing views. We support robust development across Bay Street which maximizes the benefits for both the development and the public to enjoy the park amenities and river views. Any structure on the river side of the street should directly enhance the public uses and be located along Bay Street, leaving a green buffer of at least 175' from the river.
7. Make streets into boulevards. Transform Bay Street and A. Philip Randolph into pedestrian-friendly, tree-lined boulevards incorporating wide sidewalks, planted medians, shade and street furniture.
8. Plan for maintenance. Support the creation of a non-profit Riverfront Parks Conservancy.
9. Riverfront playing, not parking. Refrain from building visible parking structures between Bay Street and the river.
10. Plan for the Jacksonville we all desire. This is a game-changing opportunity for the city, not just an amenity for a downtown neighborhood. By planning a well-designed, visually interesting public space with a variety of attractions and amenities, our riverfront can entice Jaxsons from all walks of life to come and spend the day.
Let's make sure we have ample space not only for play areas, cafes and bars, native plants, and cultural activities, but also for hosting large events, concerts, tailgates, and festivals such as our future Super Bowl, NFL Draft, Gator Bowl, and Florida-Georgia parties!
Nancy Powell, Jimmy Orth, Natalie Rosenburg, Susan Caven, Ted Pappas, Barbara Ketchum and Michael Kirwan, the Riverfront Parks Now Coalition
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/opinion/columns/guest/2021/07/04/guest-column-our-last-best-chance-jacksonville-riverfront-all/7790771002/
^Good piece, but I do find it interesting that we want to market study private developments like Lot J and Four Seasons to death, but we just blindly assume that there's a market for a 40+ acre uninterrupted urban park, in the shadow of the sports complex, in an area that we all pretty much agree is on the periphery of downtown Jacksonville. And I think before the Jags expressed interest in Met Park, most agreed that locating Metro Park where we originally did was a mistake in retrospect, spurned by a need to spend federal dollars before they were revoked.
To me, the difference between Jacksonville and some of the other river cities routinely cited as doing it right (Greenville, Louisville, Chattanooga) is scarcity of waterfront access. We've got 22 miles of beaches, 40 miles of Intracoastal waterline, and the longest stretch of the St. Johns River in the state. Feels like private development is a bigger problem for downtown Jacksonville than lack of riverfront access (though it will always be a chicken/egg scenario, obviously).
If you look at all of the available riverfront land in downtown Jacksonville (including parks already in planning or construction at the Times-Union Center, Friendship Fountain/St. Johns Park, RiversEdge, the Landing, etc.) compared to actual population and business density downtown, I have a hard time blindly advocating for reserving all riverfront space for public use. Strategically, I'd rather see us focus all of our efforts in terms of investment and maintenance dollars into maybe four signature or five signature downtown parks with adjacent/integrated private development rather than trying to stretch our attention across the entire riverfront.
Don't have a clue if developing Kids Campus will result in a net loss of ROI for the city over the next 100 years versus turning it into a park and hoping someone remediates and develops Lot J on the periphery instead, but I do feel like having a five-star hotel with public riverwalk access on the site and public parks flanking it will produce two great parks and the opportunity for additional private development in the area that wouldn't otherwise happen in the absence of said Four Seasons.
(https://snipboard.io/SPtF3I.jpg)
Not to mention, politically, a balancing act between private development and park space is going to be needed to garner public support. It's not a slam dunk that the constituency will support such a massive investment in parks between the Landing, Rivers Edge, and the Shipyards. If designed right, the Riverwalk traveling through the Four Seasons property could work. Hopefully access to the restaurant or some other active publicly-accessible portion of the resort would be readily available from that section of the Riverwalk to tie the development in to the public space as opposed to interrupting it. A sidewalk walling pedestrians off in front of a fenced-off resort would be disastrous, but I don't think that's the vision.
As an aside, I haven't heard detractors of the Four Seasons developing complaining all that loudly about the MOSH plans to also build and "break up" the green space on the river. The DuPont conceptual plans, retaining both MOSH and the Four Seasons while allowing space for smaller park-supporting structures strikes a good balance and should feel like a win for the Parks coalition, IMO.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on July 06, 2021, 03:02:25 PM
^Good piece, but I do find it interesting that we want to market study private developments like Lot J and Four Seasons to death, but we just blindly assume that there's a market for a 40+ acre uninterrupted urban park, in the shadow of the sports complex, in an area that we all pretty much agree is on the periphery of downtown Jacksonville. And I think before the Jags expressed interest in Met Park, most agreed that locating Metro Park where we originally did was a mistake in retrospect, spurned by a need to spend federal dollars before they were revoked.
To me, the difference between Jacksonville and some of the other river cities routinely cited as doing it right (Greenville, Louisville, Chattanooga) is scarcity of waterfront access. We've got 22 miles of beaches, 40 miles of Intracoastal waterline, and the longest stretch of the St. Johns River in the state. Feels like private development is a bigger problem for downtown Jacksonville than lack of riverfront access (though it will always be a chicken/egg scenario, obviously).
If you look at all of the available riverfront land in downtown Jacksonville (including parks already in planning or construction at the Times-Union Center, Friendship Fountain/St. Johns Park, RiversEdge, the Landing, etc.) compared to actual population and business density downtown, I have a hard time blindly advocating for reserving all riverfront space for public use. Strategically, I'd rather see us focus all of our efforts in terms of investment and maintenance dollars into maybe four signature or five signature downtown parks with adjacent/integrated private development rather than trying to stretch our attention across the entire riverfront.
One needs to think decades out when allocating land for riverfront parks, not just based on today's or tomorrow's developments.
Breaking land up into smaller parks prevents many larger "city wide" activities such as for celebrations, events like the Super Bowl, outdoor concerts, large festivals, etc. It also prevents a longer bike ride or jogging run. The riverfront aesthetics are also not nearly as nice.
And, while we may have lots of waterfront, only a very tiny portion of it is available to public access other than along Heckshcer Drive where the population remains relatively sparse.
By the way, a 40+ acre park is not all that big compared to many city/urban parks so it is certainly not an unreasonable goal.
QuoteDon't have a clue if developing Kids Campus will result in a net loss of ROI for the city over the next 100 years versus turning it into a park and hoping someone remediates and develops Lot J on the periphery instead, but I do feel like having a five-star hotel with public riverwalk access on the site and public parks flanking it will produce two great parks and the opportunity for additional private development in the area that wouldn't otherwise happen in the absence of said Four Seasons.
No doubt, the Four Seasons will bring along other projects. But that will just increase the temptation to turn over more public riverfront to developers. If the Four Seasons was back a couple of hundred feet, that might bring more inland development and support a greater range of downtown acreage as a result.
And, yes, we should be looking 100 years out ideally. On that basis and assuming continued growth trends of the local population, we could be on par with current day Tampa or Orlando or even much of South Florida. I can assure you the demand for downtown park space at that point will be off the charts. However, if we don't provide for it now, it likely will be forever unobtainable in the future. Imagine if NYC had waited until the 1900's to establish Central Park.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/the-riverfront-vision-for-parks-in-downtown-jacksonville
Looks like the DIA is recommending a budget of about $2.5 million/acre (riverwalk extensions not included) for the construction of new riverfront parks.
Thoughts?
Quote from: Ken_FSU on April 01, 2022, 11:37:15 AM
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/the-riverfront-vision-for-parks-in-downtown-jacksonville
Looks like the DIA is recommending a budget of about $2.5 million/acre (riverwalk extensions not included) for the construction of new riverfront parks.
Thoughts?
It all depends on the details of the parks, but the preferred number for high quality space would be $3 mill per.