Quote(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/LaVilla-Townhouses/i-FH23mmS/0/23dc34a3/L/20210610_DDRB%20AGENDA%20PACKET_Page_44-L.jpg)
A look at conceptual plans for the Johnson Commons townhome development proposed for LaVilla.
Read More: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/renderings-lavilla-townhomes/
I love it. Why? As y'all know I was born in Jax, then taken back to Jasper to be raised by my Grandma until age 9, then my Mom came and got me in 1965 from Jasper/Grandma and moved me to be with her in Jax. We lived at 817 West Duval Street (it is now an empty lot behind a commercial building), and yes, in a two story house with many rooms (they were not known as shotgun houses back then but were boarding houses where the rooms inside were for rent and everyone shared one bathroom on each floor except for the Landlord who had a huge apartment style place/setting on the 1st floor and her own bathroom). We lived in a very nice, large/roomy room with beautiful wallpaper, we all shared the bathroom (yuck) and the kitchen; the stoves in the kitchen were small kerosene type burners (3 burners) that sat on your table which had spices, etc. on it as well; we ate in the room we rented. Coming from a house with Grandma to a room in the big city of Jax (Jax was Florida's Queen in those days), was quite a shock, but I adjusted and grew to love it. My Mom was "out there" and she was in her 20's, so this is where she lived at the time (she's kind of rich these days LOL). LaVilla was bustling back then and you could hear music from at least 7 or 8 bars, nightclubs, etc. most of the day and all night on Ashley which was two blocks away. The Rooveselt Theater, on Ashley a half block from Davis Street, was my biggest hangout on the weekends when not in School; I also frequented the Strand and Ritz Theaters; the Strand has long long since been gone but was also on Ashley Street. I attended School at A. L. Lewis Elementary just west of the expressway with LaVilla Park being right in front of my school. So THIS is why I love what they are doing with this new development. IMO it's good where they are building this development; but I wish they would develop as much of LaVilla as possible with these type townhomes, which will instigate and spur other things like convenience stores/gas stations, maybe a small theater or two, restaurants, a shopping plaza or two, etc. I would love to see LaVilla bustling again, and I know it won't be like in the 60's and before, and I don't care what race, culture or races reside there, just bring my Neighborhood back! I am elated guys with this news!
I really like that some other unique product is being built in the area other than "lofts".
This bid is definitely better as a whole than the previous one but my one minor gripe is the front of the houses lack visual interest. The shape is spot on to the historical style of houses in LaVilla but I wish there was a porch or something mimicking it to break up the front. I realize it probably cost too much, but just something in an ideal world I think could elevate these houses.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Neighborhoods/Eastside/i-KTNPGq7/0/63eb3c7f/L/20170714_165843-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/LaVilla-Townhouses/i-FH23mmS/0/23dc34a3/L/20210610_DDRB%20AGENDA%20PACKET_Page_44-L.jpg)
Quote from: heights unknown on June 04, 2021, 08:32:14 PM
I love it. Why? As y'all know I was born in Jax, then taken back to Jasper to be raised by my Grandma until age 9, then my Mom came and got me in 1965 from Jasper/Grandma and moved me to be with her in Jax. We lived at 817 West Duval Street (it is now an empty lot behind a commercial building), and yes, in a two story house with many rooms (they were not known as shotgun houses back then but were boarding houses where the rooms inside were for rent and everyone shared one bathroom on each floor except for the Landlord who had a huge apartment style place/setting on the 1st floor and her own bathroom). We lived in a very nice, large/roomy room with beautiful wallpaper, we all shared the bathroom (yuck) and the kitchen; the stoves in the kitchen were small kerosene type burners (3 burners) that sat on your table which had spices, etc. on it as well; we ate in the room we rented. Coming from a house with Grandma to a room in the big city of Jax (Jax was Florida's Queen in those days), was quite a shock, but I adjusted and grew to love it. My Mom was "out there" and she was in her 20's, so this is where she lived at the time (she's kind of rich these days LOL). LaVilla was bustling back then and you could hear music from at least 7 or 8 bars, nightclubs, etc. most of the day and all night on Ashley which was two blocks away. The Rooveselt Theater, on Ashley a half block from Davis Street, was my biggest hangout on the weekends when not in School; I also frequented the Strand and Ritz Theaters; the Strand has long long since been gone but was also on Ashley Street. I attended School at A. L. Lewis Elementary just west of the expressway with LaVilla Park being right in front of my school. So THIS is why I love what they are doing with this new development. IMO it's good where they are building this development; but I wish they would develop as much of LaVilla as possible with these type townhomes, which will instigate and spur other things like convenience stores/gas stations, maybe a small theater or two, restaurants, a shopping plaza or two, etc. I would love to see LaVilla bustling again, and I know it won't be like in the 60's and before, and I don't care what race, culture or races reside there, just bring my Neighborhood back! I am elated guys with this news!
Heights, as a Jax longtimer, I enjoyed reading your memories. While I was raised in a different part of town. I remember as a kid driving through much of LaVilla and seeing street after street of shotgun houses as you describe. Closer to Forsyth and Bay Street were lots of blocks long, grand old brick buildings, mostly warehouses, that would have made amazing repurposed buildings, maybe even better than those, say, at the former Charleston cotton market.
Sadly, the City tore them down in another disastrous no-plan plan when they leveled LaVilla on the taxpayers dime decades ago. Only now are we seeing any life at all (gotta love that JEA emergency facility!). Just another example of Downtown failures. Losing history and gaining nothing at great expense.
Quote from: itsfantastic1 on June 04, 2021, 10:52:34 PM
This bid is definitely better as a whole than the previous one but my one minor gripe is the front of the houses lack visual interest. The shape is spot on to the historical style of houses in LaVilla but I wish there was a porch or something mimicking it to break up the front. I realize it probably cost too much, but just something in an ideal world I think could elevate these houses.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Neighborhoods/Eastside/i-KTNPGq7/0/63eb3c7f/L/20170714_165843-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/LaVilla-Townhouses/i-FH23mmS/0/23dc34a3/L/20210610_DDRB%20AGENDA%20PACKET_Page_44-L.jpg)
I completely agree. In my opinion, the front porch is the defining shotgun house feature along with the pointed roof. The current design is missing the interactive element of the front porch. Imagine being able to sit out on your front porch and listen to the live events in the nearby park. Or sit out front and chat with the next door neighbor. Or wave at the runners as they make their way to the Emerald Trail. With this design, we just add another "closed off" housing project to downtown.
Quote from: itsfantastic1 on June 04, 2021, 10:52:34 PM
This bid is definitely better as a whole than the previous one but my one minor gripe is the front of the houses lack visual interest. The shape is spot on to the historical style of houses in LaVilla but I wish there was a porch or something mimicking it to break up the front. I realize it probably cost too much, but just something in an ideal world I think could elevate these houses.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Neighborhoods/Eastside/i-KTNPGq7/0/63eb3c7f/L/20170714_165843-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/LaVilla-Townhouses/i-FH23mmS/0/23dc34a3/L/20210610_DDRB%20AGENDA%20PACKET_Page_44-L.jpg)
Believe it or not most of the houses in LaVilla were two story. Across the street from where we lived at 817 W. Duval, there were like 3 houses that looked like this, and I think some on Monroe. I remember those houses but can't remember what street they were on; I'm tempted to say Monroe.
Quote from: brainstormer on June 05, 2021, 10:01:47 AM
Quote from: itsfantastic1 on June 04, 2021, 10:52:34 PM
This bid is definitely better as a whole than the previous one but my one minor gripe is the front of the houses lack visual interest. The shape is spot on to the historical style of houses in LaVilla but I wish there was a porch or something mimicking it to break up the front. I realize it probably cost too much, but just something in an ideal world I think could elevate these houses.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Neighborhoods/Eastside/i-KTNPGq7/0/63eb3c7f/L/20170714_165843-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/LaVilla-Townhouses/i-FH23mmS/0/23dc34a3/L/20210610_DDRB%20AGENDA%20PACKET_Page_44-L.jpg)
I completely agree. In my opinion, the front porch is the defining shotgun house feature along with the pointed roof. The current design is missing the interactive element of the front porch. Imagine being able to sit out on your front porch and listen to the live events in the nearby park. Or sit out front and chat with the next door neighbor. Or wave at the runners as they make their way to the Emerald Trail. With this design, we just add another "closed off" housing project to downtown.
In relation to front porches, those two story houses had an extensive front porch on the 1st and second story. Sometimes it helps to locate someone who actually lived in those neighborhoods, or even lived in those homes, and query them about how the homes really looked rather than looking at photos and formulating your own opinion on how it was or how it should look. As the old saying goes, "you've got to be real!" So if you're going to build modern but similar to those old homes, make sure you get "the feel" in every detail of living but of course in a modern sense.
Agree completely on the front porches... we are planning on some product with front porches in the cathedral district, but there just wasn't enough room to make them work on this site with the unit count we needed to hit. These units are only 33' deep as it is. Taking 5' off for a front porch just made the floor plan unworkable.
Gotcha; understood.
Quote from: Alex Sifakis on June 05, 2021, 08:40:48 PM
Agree completely on the front porches... we are planning on some product with front porches in the cathedral district, but there just wasn't enough room to make them work on this site with the unit count we needed to hit. These units are only 33' deep as it is. Taking 5' off for a front porch just made the floor plan unworkable.
I may be offering up a terrible idea, but what about faux-porch roofs that extend outwards over the sidewalk? Could break up the massing, honor the original style, and shade pedestrians below whilst maintaining the necessary building depth.
A question and a suggestion.
In the rendering above, is there one unit for each roof peak, or one per color change?
I understand the building depth problem, and like the idea of porch roofs over the edge of the sidewalk - if that is legal. A horizontal element added at the second-floor level, perhaps as a small eave-line could replicate the traditional 'face' of the residences.
Quote from: Charles Hunter on June 06, 2021, 07:29:39 AM
In the rendering above, is there one unit for each roof peak, or one per color change?
The location of the doors suggest each roof peak.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on June 04, 2021, 11:22:21 PM
Quote from: heights unknown on June 04, 2021, 08:32:14 PM
I love it. Why? As y'all know I was born in Jax, then taken back to Jasper to be raised by my Grandma until age 9, then my Mom came and got me in 1965 from Jasper/Grandma and moved me to be with her in Jax. We lived at 817 West Duval Street (it is now an empty lot behind a commercial building), and yes, in a two story house with many rooms (they were not known as shotgun houses back then but were boarding houses where the rooms inside were for rent and everyone shared one bathroom on each floor except for the Landlord who had a huge apartment style place/setting on the 1st floor and her own bathroom). We lived in a very nice, large/roomy room with beautiful wallpaper, we all shared the bathroom (yuck) and the kitchen; the stoves in the kitchen were small kerosene type burners (3 burners) that sat on your table which had spices, etc. on it as well; we ate in the room we rented. Coming from a house with Grandma to a room in the big city of Jax (Jax was Florida's Queen in those days), was quite a shock, but I adjusted and grew to love it. My Mom was "out there" and she was in her 20's, so this is where she lived at the time (she's kind of rich these days LOL). LaVilla was bustling back then and you could hear music from at least 7 or 8 bars, nightclubs, etc. most of the day and all night on Ashley which was two blocks away. The Rooveselt Theater, on Ashley a half block from Davis Street, was my biggest hangout on the weekends when not in School; I also frequented the Strand and Ritz Theaters; the Strand has long long since been gone but was also on Ashley Street. I attended School at A. L. Lewis Elementary just west of the expressway with LaVilla Park being right in front of my school. So THIS is why I love what they are doing with this new development. IMO it's good where they are building this development; but I wish they would develop as much of LaVilla as possible with these type townhomes, which will instigate and spur other things like convenience stores/gas stations, maybe a small theater or two, restaurants, a shopping plaza or two, etc. I would love to see LaVilla bustling again, and I know it won't be like in the 60's and before, and I don't care what race, culture or races reside there, just bring my Neighborhood back! I am elated guys with this news!
Heights, as a Jax longtimer, I enjoyed reading your memories. While I was raised in a different part of town. I remember as a kid driving through much of LaVilla and seeing street after street of shotgun houses as you describe. Closer to Forsyth and Bay Street were lots of blocks long, grand old brick buildings, mostly warehouses, that would have made amazing repurposed buildings, maybe even better than those, say, at the former Charleston cotton market.
Sadly, the City tore them down in another disastrous no-plan plan when they leveled LaVilla on the taxpayers dime decades ago. Only now are we seeing any life at all (gotta love that JEA emergency facility!). Just another example of Downtown failures. Losing history and gaining nothing at great expense.
You said it extremely well Jaxlongtimer; thanks for further adding to what I said, fattening it up, and hey, it's truth and fact. Those old boarding houses and shotgun houses had to come down and would have at some point;...... most of them were close to a hundred years old or more; but to flatten everything completely with no plan at all was just disgraceful. Though the population of LaVilla was down to the bare knuckles, the people that still lived there, that was their home, their neighborhood, and to be just pushed out and I'll bet with no incentives or anything for relocation. However, I do like what I am seeing regarding these townhomes; the first time I saw these renderings, I knew they were borrowing from and on the old houses that were built at the turn of the century and that were almost a hundred years old, some of them, when they razed LaVilla. They just need to really get some old photos out, or query some people, like me, that lived there back in the day, to really refine the details in order to get a "LaVilla Real Feel." The area where I grew up was THE center of population for LaVilla, and, unfortunately they've blocked off some streets (such as Ashley), and built commercial/business on most of where I lived. But...there's quite a bit of more unused and vacant land left in LaVilla to still add residential in and around what's already there.
A picture that is more comparable as a reference:
(https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/sites/default/files/247612_standard.jpeg)
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/johnson-commons-offers-competing-plan-for-townhomes-in-lavilla
Some more pictures:
(https://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/3902775940_rgtR7Cx-L.jpg)
(https://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/3902775956_WDnLrh3-L.jpg)
(https://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/3902775962_xJK7MbM-L.jpg)
(https://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/3902775991_pSQMTSZ-L.jpg)
(https://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/3902776008_5cJ5dCr-L.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/2267401193_DcVKnV9-M.jpg)
Quote from: Charles Hunter on June 06, 2021, 07:29:39 AM
A question and a suggestion.
In the rendering above, is there one unit for each roof peak, or one per color change?
I understand the building depth problem, and like the idea of porch roofs over the edge of the sidewalk - if that is legal. A horizontal element added at the second-floor level, perhaps as a small eave-line could replicate the traditional 'face' of the residences.
I don't know how much it will impact the project cost wise, but one modern option could be to extend the awning over the door of each unit, over the front door and front window. Here are a few examples:
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Miscellaneous/i-MjVKN4H/0/ec2b5c4d/L/b3b3ac9826bb2ad259be18cda2a87df5-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Miscellaneous/i-7Sjkx7Z/0/9170aa78/X2/1420503187832-X2.jpg)
^yes! But maybe it could be pitched and hipped to mimick a porch/shotgun style.
I agree Lake and Jaxonole. IMO they need to be a little more imaginative and do a little more homework to boost those imaginations and ideas.
From COJ Zoning Code on awnings projecting over public way:
QuoteSec. 323.104. - Permissible projections.
Under the conditions prescribed in this part and within the limitations specified herein, the following projections shall be permissible. When a building line has not been established, the street line shall control.
(b)Cornices of show windows, porches, and metal awning covers may project beyond the building line not more than fifteen inches, if the projections are not less than nine feet above the sidewalk level.
(i)Awnings attached to buildings or structures may extend beyond the building line not more than six feet nor nearer than eighteen inches to the curb line if they are not less than eight feet above the sidewalk level; provided, awnings shall not be wind activated or inflatable.
This below approach in Amsterdam might not capture the exact look of LaVilla from years gone by, but it would help to make the block a lot more interesting 8):
(https://kabatravel.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/casas-barco-amsterdam.jpg)
(https://www.theagilityeffect.com/app/uploads/2020/11/00_VINCI-ICONOGRAPHIE_1280x680-amsterdam-canal-on-the-west-P98BNG2.jpg)
^ Not in LaVilla, but that Dutch/Belgian style did inspire the Herkimer Block building.
Quote from: CityLife on June 07, 2021, 03:00:30 PM
Quote from: Des on June 07, 2021, 01:05:20 PM
From COJ Zoning Code on awnings projecting over public way:
QuoteSec. 323.104. - Permissible projections.
Under the conditions prescribed in this part and within the limitations specified herein, the following projections shall be permissible. When a building line has not been established, the street line shall control.
(b)Cornices of show windows, porches, and metal awning covers may project beyond the building line not more than fifteen inches, if the projections are not less than nine feet above the sidewalk level.
(i)Awnings attached to buildings or structures may extend beyond the building line not more than six feet nor nearer than eighteen inches to the curb line if they are not less than eight feet above the sidewalk level; provided, awnings shall not be wind activated or inflatable.
This is a city-wide standard. Does Jax seriously not have a special section for encroachments into the right-of-way in it's Downtown code? I thought Lori Boyer was supposed to have fixed the code a couple years ago. Allowing encroachments of different building types into the right-of-way is basically urban code or form-based code 101. In the municipality I work in (with a proper form-based code), the balconies on the two-story LaVilla home types shared by Jaxlongtimer would be able to project into the right-of-way, provided an 8' wide and 10' tall minimum path was provided on the sidewalk for pedestrians. You wouldn't be able to have much of a ground floor stoop with the need for the clear pedestrian path, but even still that building typology is more attractive and also allows shaded sidewalks.
Even if it's not in the code, I assume it is waiverable during the entitlement process. Especially under the condition that Jax's Downtown code is out of whack.
DIA basically prefers to grant aerial easement exceptions. Things like the design guidelines, street hierarchy, sign ordinance, etc are inadequate, and basically everyone goes for an exception. DIA feels that the Code is basically fine as is and feels that the exception process is evidence that they are easy to work it. But the fact that there are so many exceptions granted means that there needs to be more holistic updates to the Downtown overlay. Its better than it was before Boyer took over, without a doubt, but it needs to be better. The entitlement process gets done, and the land use attorneys certainly make good money navigating that process. To me, the fact that there are so many exceptions, is pretty strong evidence that there is a problem and the Code just doesn't consider the many potential ways to build a better mouse trap.
Its more reactionary than forward looking. There are many reasons why that is, but that's the best way I describe it to the average, non-real estate professional without going into the boring, technical nitty-gritty.
^ Does the City need to reinvent the wheel? Can't Jax adopt best practices from more progressive cities with demonstrated success that we wish to emulate. Someone must have an existing code that approaches our desires. Seems after all those Chamber trips that we could have found something by now to copy and paste here. The real question is, is there any interest in so doing?
The DIA is going through a master plan update now. I believe the old CRAs were expired.
Unfortunately, the scope is inadequate- and it looks to have been structured in order to favor one politically-connected firm. GAI has the contract, and has already brought us smash hits like this branding(?) effort. https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/noco-no-go-4-reasons-to-ax-dias-downtown-rebrand/ (https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/noco-no-go-4-reasons-to-ax-dias-downtown-rebrand/)
DIA staff doesn't have the skill set (nor time) to take on a full-scale master plan update. That's not a criticism, as it would be typical to bring in a consultant for something like this. Unfortunately, the money being spent on this CRA plan update could have had much better bang for the buck. Its simply not scoped correctly, IMO.
From the Downtown Overlay Zoning:
QuoteSec. 656.361.6.3. - Public Realm Regulations.
B. Pedestrian Zone (Sidewalk).
1.Purpose and Intent. The Pedestrian Zone serves several functions - circulation facility, social space, and amenity area - and must accommodate numerous features and facilities to support these functions. The widths of the Pedestrian Zone areas should vary in response to context, but Pedestrian Zone width should be distributed amongst the three areas according to the following priorities: pedestrian (highest), amenity (middle), frontage (lowest, except when activated as a sidewalk cafe).
2.Requirements for the Pedestrian Clear Area.
(a)The Pedestrian Clear Area shall be a minimum of five feet in width in all areas regardless of right-of-way width. Where adequate right-of-way exists beyond the edge of the Vehicular Zone, the Pedestrian Clear Area shall be expanded to at least eight feet (six feet adjacent to permitted sidewalk cafes) prior to expanding the adjacent Amenity Area beyond the four-foot minimum or expanding the Frontage Area. When the right-of-way allows for a greater Pedestrian Zone width, the additional width may be allocated to Amenity Area, Frontage Area or Pedestrian Clear area as desired.
(b)The Pedestrian Clear Area shall maintain a minimum vertical height clearance of eight feet, clear of overhanging tree limbs, protruding fixtures such as awnings, or other horizontal obstruction.
(https://mcclibrary.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/codecontent/12174/381047/656-361-6-3-A2.png)
QuoteC.Pedestrian Protection from the Elements.
3.Requirements for Protection from the elements.
(c)In order to accomplish protection from the elements, portions of a building or structure such as: awnings, balconies, structural elements, overhangs and cantilevered shelters, may be allowed to extend over or into the public right-of-way to within two feet of the curb, subject to the approval of the Director of the Public Works Department, as shown in Figure 6.3.C, below, and subject to compliance with the following:
(1)The minimum vertical clearance between the established grade of the public right-of-way and the underside of the encroaching structure is at least eight feet.
(2)Supporting columns will be permitted within the Pedestrian Zone when the grade level floor of the structure is set back a distance equal to or greater than the Pedestrian Zone area lost to the supporting columns, as shown in Figure 6.3.C above. This requirement shall not apply in the case of an existing building where an addition or alteration may result in the necessity to locate supporting columns within the Pedestrian Zone.
(3)A Pedestrian Zone consistent with the Public Realm regulations is provided.
(4)Structures built over the public right-of-way shall not interfere with any element of the streetscape including, but not limited to, lighting, landscaping, and pedestrian circulation.
(5)The structure extension has been reviewed, with due consideration to public right-of-way width, above ground and underground utilities (including the need for overhead crane access to underground transformers), pedestrian views or visibility, and adjacent structures.
(https://mcclibrary.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/codecontent/12174/381047/656-361-6-3-C2.png)
^ CityLife, are your pictures from Rosemary Beach, FL? 8) Looks familiar.
QuoteFor the second time in 18 months, the Jacksonville City Council will consider a bill giving 3.45 acres in LaVilla to a private developer to build a town house community next to Lift Ev'ry Voice and Sing Park.
The Mayor's Budget Review Committee voted 7-0 on July 12 to file legislation with Council giving the city-owned property to Johnson Commons LLC for its proposed 91-unit town house and retail project.
Johnson Commons — a partnership between JWB Real Estate Capital LLC and Corner Lot Development — finished second to Vestcor Companies Inc. in a 2019 Downtown Investment Authority request for proposals to develop the site, bounded by Adams, Lee, Houston and Forsyth streets.
For more information: https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/second-try-at-lavilla-town-house-project-heads-to-council