Quote(https://photos.moderncities.com/photos/i-jjJ8q9q/0/L/i-jjJ8q9q-L.png)
293 residential units part of $135 Million redevelopment of Berkman II.
Read More: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/135-million-redevelopment-of-berkman-ii-proposed/
This building is not pretty enough to be on the river.
Looks better than the Berkman I at least.
Spell check the title of the article. Aspire to be more than the Times Union in terms of grammar and spelling.
I'll believe it when I see it. For now, just another flashy renderings. At least there's not a water park, giant ferris wheel, or gondola though...
I don't really understand the concept of two "Riverwalks".
Quote from: blizz01 on April 29, 2021, 10:39:01 AM
I don't really understand the concept of two "Riverwalks".
I do not understand your comment.
Well, if you look at the renderings and description in the article there is a subset walking path that runs parallel to the Riverwalk. Just seems redundant to me at first glance to have 2 sets of pedestrians walking alongside one another divided by a fence. Seems like a wasted use of that space in my humble opinion.
I guess one is more akin to the standard riverwalk, and the other is more of a plaza-type setting. I recall someone here being very adamant about larger setbacks from the river, hopefully this is a win for them.
I am very happy they are including that plaza and riverwalk as well as retail around the parking. We need to stop the parking garages built right up to the river like the south bank. You can never undo that, really as these types of riverfront projects are built, they should require it.
I like it if it pans out and comes to fruition. I hope it gets built. It's pretty tall (yeah!)...for Jax (sad). Oh well, can't cry over spilled milk, hope it gets (get er) done.
Quote from: JaGoaT on April 29, 2021, 02:31:16 AM
This building is not pretty enough to be on the river.
*************
Just read the article and saw KBJ designed it. They designed most of the buildings downtown many my favorites. So I guess this building will have to grow on me.
Will this development comply with the river height setbacks set by DIA? Or, are we again making an exception?
Significant demo now underway, shutting down a lane of Bay Street.
(https://i.postimg.cc/44r4260h/IMG-0744.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/bwRzvKwQ/IMG-0748.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/jqWdhgMb/IMG-0750.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/kDrHNXfB/IMG-0743.jpg)
thank goodness the eyesore of the past 2 decades will FINALLY be gone
such a scar on our skyline
They, or someone, could have made something out of this building. Such a waste in my opinion; waste of money.
Quote from: heights unknown on June 17, 2021, 10:57:26 PM
They, or someone, could have made something out of this building. Such a waste in my opinion; waste of money.
Short answer, no. Long answer, nope.
There was over a decade for somebody to do something
Nobody would ever sign off on a project that killed somebody during construction, then sat for over a decade in an extremely harsh environment, completely unmaintained and exposed to the elements. That building was barely a building, it was an eyesore, a liability, and a hazard. Goodbye.
Quote from: Peter Griffin on June 18, 2021, 08:18:23 AM
Quote from: heights unknown on June 17, 2021, 10:57:26 PM
They, or someone, could have made something out of this building. Such a waste in my opinion; waste of money.
Short answer, no. Long answer, nope.
There was over a decade for somebody to do something
Nobody would ever sign off on a project that killed somebody during construction, then sat for over a decade in an extremely harsh environment, completely unmaintained and exposed to the elements. That building was barely a building, it was an eyesore, a liability, and a hazard. Goodbye.
Actually it was the adjoining GARAGE that killed somebody and it was demolished long ago. There was no reason this building had to sit for so many years. In just about any city the size of Jacksonville, it would have been salvaged. The market here was just too weak for that to happen.
I just want that trash building to go away. HOpe it happens soon.
There aren't many hi rises that get stuck uncompleted. But when they do in that sort of state, completely exposed, I don't know of one that was later completed.
Ones that do, like the Fontainebleau Las Vegas, you have a combo of high demand plus the building was mostly done when the project stopped. It was protected from the elements + such.
Maybe it could. IIRC Poland's got a skyscraper that sat exposed for 30 something years that was recently finished. It'll be interesting to see how that holds up over time.
Quote from: vicupstate on June 18, 2021, 08:42:37 AM
Quote from: Peter Griffin on June 18, 2021, 08:18:23 AM
Quote from: heights unknown on June 17, 2021, 10:57:26 PM
They, or someone, could have made something out of this building. Such a waste in my opinion; waste of money.
Short answer, no. Long answer, nope.
There was over a decade for somebody to do something
Nobody would ever sign off on a project that killed somebody during construction, then sat for over a decade in an extremely harsh environment, completely unmaintained and exposed to the elements. That building was barely a building, it was an eyesore, a liability, and a hazard. Goodbye.
Actually it was the adjoining GARAGE that killed somebody and it was demolished long ago. There was no reason this building had to sit for so many years. In just about any city the size of Jacksonville, it would have been salvaged. The market here was just too weak for that to happen.
While Berkman II has certainly been an eyesore for quite some time, the reason it sat undeveloped had everything to do with the ongoing series of lawsuits, countersuits, arbitration and foreclosure proceedings that followed the tragic collapse of the parking structure that claimed the life of William Edwards, and injured a few dozen more.
In fact, the current owner(original general contractor) has been marred in legal proceedings since being awarded the building from those foreclosure proceedings.
There is nothing wrong with the structure of the tower that can't be fixed. It is not in danger of collapsing, nor is structurally unsound. There are many engineering reports that back that up.
I think many people here are going to be disappointed when they begin to realize that the current demo won't be through a large implosion, that it will take many months to complete... and in fact won't be a complete demolition of the structure. Unfortunately, the current lead partner of this newest redevelopment effort (Park Beeler) has a far, far worse track record than David Berkman (the original developer... who also once owned various minor league arena football and hockey teams in Jax).
Quote from: fieldafm on June 18, 2021, 01:50:16 PM
There is nothing wrong with the structure of the tower that can't be fixed.
Everything can be fixed. The question isn't can it be fixed but is it worth it. I can fix up a 1982 Ford LTD and run it forever. But it ain't worth the $$$$ compared to just buying a new car.
Sale confirmed.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/documents-show-berkman-ii-purchased-for-dollar5-503-million-in-april
Quote from: Ken_FSU on June 17, 2021, 01:42:15 PM
Significant demo now underway, shutting down a lane of Bay Street.
(https://i.postimg.cc/44r4260h/IMG-0744.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/bwRzvKwQ/IMG-0748.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/jqWdhgMb/IMG-0750.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/kDrHNXfB/IMG-0743.jpg)
Still...in my opinion...WHAT A WASTE!!!
It's possible the structural issues identified in today's T-U article were caused by the demolition itself -- but it's also possible they uncovered a structural defect during demo that couldn't be seen with the building intact.
With the property's troubled past, I think we're better off starting anew in this case -- even if the current proposal falls through and we're stuck with another grass lot. Too much uncertainty with the current structure. At this point, there's no turning back anyway.
Quote[JFRD Cheif Keith Powers] said the contractor and engineers working on the demolition had notified city authorities about possible structural instability Friday afternoon.
"They were attempting to take a piece of concrete down from one of the upper stories and it did not act like they thought it should act," Powers said. He didn't specify what raised the workers' concerns.
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/crime/2021/08/21/engineers-inspecting-berkman-ii-demolition-structural-integrity/8227163002/ (https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/crime/2021/08/21/engineers-inspecting-berkman-ii-demolition-structural-integrity/8227163002/)
Back to implosion now... Looks like it should come down in about a month.
What was the issue or problem with choosing implosion initially?
Quote from: heights unknown on August 24, 2021, 08:32:16 PM
What was the issue or problem with choosing implosion initially?
Cost
... and, I think, that the City Hall implosion went somewhat badly.
If the building is unsafe to enter, as was said on the news tonight*, how will the explosives experts be able to plant their charges on multiple levels?
Seems the logical plan would be to drop it onto the grass lot just to the east.
* Yes, I realize the local news may have got the "unsafe to enter" thing wrong.
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For those that claim that the integrity of an exposed building like that can be known up front, please note that you were wrong.
Quote from: bl8jaxnative on August 25, 2021, 10:58:48 AM
For those that claim that the integrity of an exposed building like that can be known up front, please note that you were wrong.
The demo contractor and their cockamamey method of trying to dismantle the building caused the structural defect, Professor.
Quote from: fieldafm on August 25, 2021, 05:57:32 PM
cockamamey
That's a curse word in 14 different countries. Tread lightly!
Quote from: fieldafm on August 25, 2021, 05:57:32 PM
Quote from: bl8jaxnative on August 25, 2021, 10:58:48 AM
For those that claim that the integrity of an exposed building like that can be known up front, please note that you were wrong.
The demo contractor and their cockamamey method of trying to dismantle the building caused the structural defect, Professor.
What's so crazy about their method? It's not like they are the first ones to demolish a building that size conventionally. The high reach demolition excavator they were using is designed specifically for the job.
When they first announced that it would be demolished that way, I thought it was odd, and, it would probably take a long time. I even questioned in my mind why they would choose this type method over demolition; but what do I know? Nothing about things of this nature. I've never seen any type high rise demolished in this way and never knew this was a method type. However, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to put 2 and 2 together to get a sum total. It never really entered my mind that by them using this method, that it might initiate some type of structural damage or weakness. Yes it's been sitting there for upteen number of years, with the elements etc., but would the elements and exposure really weaken the structure that much? They just need to get it demolished with explosives and get to work on the new development.
What a mess.
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2022/01/11/jacksonville-mayor-seeks-1-2-million-imploding-berkman-ii/9172125002/
You would think there should be a legal point of no return for a demolition company. It is hard to believe they could intentionally weaken the structure of a high-rise, then pack up and walk away with all of their mitigation measures over a contract dispute and leave hundreds of uninvolved parties at risk.
I'm sure it's fastest to stick with the contractor who is already set up on site, but Pece of Mind hasn't exactly been knocking this demo out of the park. Do we expect different results when the city starts footing the bill? Finally, I'd have to assume this bodes very poorly for the prospect of the proposed redevelopment.
This development has always sounded shaky. My advice is don't get your hopes up too high.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on January 11, 2022, 04:41:11 PM
What a mess.
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2022/01/11/jacksonville-mayor-seeks-1-2-million-imploding-berkman-ii/9172125002/
Rofl...
Quote from: thelakelander on January 11, 2022, 04:59:36 PM
This development has always sounded shaky.
Don't jinx it.
The structural integrity is already compromised.
SHOCKING
Quote from: jaxoNOLE on January 11, 2022, 04:57:57 PM
You would think there should be a legal point of no return for a demolition company. It is hard to believe they could intentionally weaken the structure of a high-rise, then pack up and walk away with all of their mitigation measures over a contract dispute and leave hundreds of uninvolved parties at risk.
I'm sure it's fastest to stick with the contractor who is already set up on site, but Pece of Mind hasn't exactly been knocking this demo out of the park. Do we expect different results when the city starts footing the bill? Finally, I'd have to aSssume this bodes very poorly for the prospect of the proposed redevelopment.
So...after walking away, did the Contractor keep the rest of the money? As someone said, yes, this is a mess, a hot and cold mess. They should get someone different to do the job if the original contractor has been inept and "misfit" in completing the job. Tsk, tsk, tsk...I just don't know.
^ The developer sounds like they hired someone from the City to negotiate the demo contract. The risk should be primarily covered by the demo contractor's insurer as the contractor is doing the work "regularly" and should have a specialized policy to cover their potential liability, as would any contractor, typically. The costs of any premium is baked into the demo quote.
And, how do you not have all your ducks lined up before you start spending the big bucks to move forward? I am talking about permits, engineering, testing and other factors that need to fall in line before you physically ever touch the site in any substantial way. A proper contract should lay out the sequence of steps leading to completion with a timeline and maybe even an allocation of the total costs to each step (to come up with percentage of completion payments).
This contractor is supposedly very experienced so I don't understand how this got to this point. Further, this wasn't some structure with hidden issues underground or behind walls, it is totally exposed. Surprises should be minimal if they knew what they were doing.
The only issue would be if the City originally issued a "final" permit for the implosion and then withdrew it. If it was just a preliminary or verbal approval, the contractor and developer should have held out for the "final" before moving forward. If the City withdrew a "final," then the City gets the blame here. Wouldn't be surprised by this latter scenario given the City's history.
Also, see Nate Monroe's take on the Berkman "curse": https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2022/01/11/jacksonville-mayor-seeks-1-2-million-imploding-berkman-ii/9172125002/
As per Haley Harrison on Twitter: "JUST IN: Jacksonville City Council approved (15-1) an emergency ordinance that will set aside $1.2m from the general fund to cover the remainder of the costs for the demolition of the Berkman II building. I'll explain why the city decided to step in on @FCN2go at 11 p.m."
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/jacksonville-city-council-approves-funding-for-berkman-ii-demolition/ar-AASFW4M?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531
I get the feeling that the city will end up owning this land in the not too distant future. They will likely pay off the demo company's lien and satisfy the city's own lien by taking the property for itself.
There's a lot more to this story than what's in the TU article.
The developer and contractor have performed in a manner that has been less than is desirable. The HOA next door at Berkman was wise to start raising alarm bells when the demo contractor had trouble using the extended excavator for a few days after its initial delivery. There's a reason why many cities don't allow for that type of demo above a certain height.
There aren't any heroes in this story, which includes the administration for allowing it to get to this point.
This is holding up other projects in the area, so whatever it takes just knock it down!
Quote from: Captain Zissou on January 12, 2022, 09:59:53 AM
This is holding up other projects in the area, so whatever it takes just knock it down!
Anything besides Ford on Bay?
Quote from: vicupstate on January 12, 2022, 10:06:07 AM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on January 12, 2022, 09:59:53 AM
This is holding up other projects in the area, so whatever it takes just knock it down!
Anything besides Ford on Bay?
Standalone Fuddruckers on Lenny's lawn.
They're not budging until the Berkman comes down.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on January 12, 2022, 10:09:10 AM
Quote from: vicupstate on January 12, 2022, 10:06:07 AM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on January 12, 2022, 09:59:53 AM
This is holding up other projects in the area, so whatever it takes just knock it down!
Anything besides Ford on Bay?
Standalone Fuddruckers on Lenny's lawn.
They're not budging until the Berkman comes down.
What happened to the major park projects? Are they still being considered or are a go? (proposed)
Shipyards requires the fire museum to be moved over to that area and the support building for the Orlek will be close by. They won't start on those until the building has been brought down.
Ironic that the most justifiable demo is the only that we can't seem to get right.
I think back to when I first stumbled upon this site and read the Downtown Frankenstein article.
I'm like, "Man, how could the city be so stupid?"
And then you look up and down the river and see what's happened in the last five years.
Doro District - gone; construction appears to have stalled at the site.
City Hall Annex and Old Courthouse - gone; now on the third RFP for one-half of the property.
Berkman 2 - on the way out; likely to be tied in legal hell indefinitely.
Jacksonville Landing - gone; replacement years away.
Times-Union property - demolition imminent.
River City Brewery - demolition imminent.
Hopefully some new development comes from all the wreckage, but that's a lot of interesting building stock meeting the wrecking ball.
^I saw many the COJ owned property train wrecks coming a mile away and wrote about every single one. Our history illustrated right where we were headed because the things being done were carbon copies of similar moves that had failed in the past. However, the best thing for downtown was one that had not occurred in the past. The Downtown Historic Preservation and Revitalization Trust Fun having some money put behind it. It will take a few years to enjoy the fruits of that move but you can see several restoration projects underway now. Nevertheless, the one thing that still is concerning is the inability to quickly do the little things (upgrading public spaces, placemaking, placekeeping, two-waying streets, creating attractive sidewalk cafe style environments, etc.). You can completely change an urban environment by doing these little things, even without new private development projects.
and that stuff is cheap and easy.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on January 12, 2022, 04:09:49 PM
Ironic that the most justifiable demo is the only that we can't seem to get right.
I think back to when I first stumbled upon this site and read the Downtown Frankenstein article.
I'm like, "Man, how could the city be so stupid?"
And then you look up and down the river and see what's happened in the last five years.
Doro District - gone; construction appears to have stalled at the site.
City Hall Annex and Old Courthouse - gone; now on the third RFP for one-half of the property.
Berkman 2 - on the way out; likely to be tied in legal hell indefinitely.
Jacksonville Landing - gone; replacement years away.
Times-Union property - demolition imminent.
River City Brewery - demolition imminent.
Hopefully some new development comes from all the wreckage, but that's a lot of interesting building stock meeting the wrecking ball.
Unlike many here, I am not all that unhappy that many of these projects are stumbling. Why? Because their success would just motivate copy cats with more destruction of historic buildings, more poorly designed buildings and more misuse of the land below them in addition to sucking the City bank accounts dry - all creating a blight on the City that will outlast at least my lifetime.
If we can just make it beyond the Curry administration, hopefully, we get better City planning, higher standards of design and development, more historic preservation, less need for big incentives and not approving projects just for the sake of saying we built something.
Patience is a virtue - as they say, Rome wasn't built in a day and neither should Jacksonville. I get the decades of frustration with little to show for it but that's, in my opinion, for the same reasons the last few years have gone nowhere: poor City leadership. We don't need to make up for it now by dropping development down to the lowest standards but rather by raising City leadership to the highest standards.
There are plenty of cities that have learned this lesson and we should too. We don't need to earn (or maybe retain?) the nickname "Hick-son-ville" or worse.
For what it's worth, demo is now scheduled for March 6 on the city's dime.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/mayor-curry-berkman-ii-implosion-is-march-6 (https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/mayor-curry-berkman-ii-implosion-is-march-6)
From an interview with Park Beeler, who wants t develop the Berkman 2 site once the City clears it. And he pays off the City's lien for the demo.
https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2022/03/02/berkman-ii-implosion-nears-developer-says-he-wants-to-replace-with-citys-tallest-skyscraper/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=snd&utm_content=wjxt4&fbclid=IwAR1LlpFtNI2jnCPfxz8X65G1MaxTlfUYfRz2gkahtlmbWYla8o6MeFSz63A
Quote
The original plans Beeler had for the site included apartments, condos and some retail space. He says those plans have changed, and the plan is to build a huge tower — the highest in the city.
"That will be residential, consisting of apartments and condominiums and possibly a hotel," Beeler said.
He added, "At the ground level, retail with a restaurant and other retail components and, including if we can get an agreement, a specialty grocery."
Beeler hopes to have the new renderings to release in the near future.
Hey! hightowerlover!
Yeahhhhh.... Any doubts I had about this getting completed have now multiplied five-fold. No way this happens in the next decade.
If the lien goes unpaid I assume the city can foreclose on the property after some amount of time. If so I'm guessing that's the final outcome.
Quote from: acme54321 on March 02, 2022, 11:03:09 PM
If the lien goes unpaid I assume the city can foreclose on the property after some amount of time. If so I'm guessing that's the final outcome.
Per the article
Quote
"The city has agreed as soon as the site is cleared, they will file a lien and we will have 90 days to resolve that lien," Beeler said.
/
Some more info from the JBJ:
https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2022/03/02/heres-what-happens-after-berkman-ii-is-demolished.html
They expect to submit design and site plans to the DDRB within 30-45 days
Couldn't get the building demolished but people are expecting them to deliver the second tallest building in Jax......when there's clearly no market for a product of that scale? Good luck but I'm highly skeptical at this point.
I feel the same way about the Southeast proposal for the Landing/ Ford on Bay. Why would I be excited for such an extensive project when the Trio seems to be difficult enough for them to pull off.
Quote from: thelakelander on March 03, 2022, 08:59:07 AM
Couldn't get the building demolished but people are expecting them to deliver the second tallest building in Jax......when there's clearly no market for a product of that scale? Good luck but I'm highly skeptical at this point.
The Park Beeler guy has no history of development either. Projects like this are not for amateurs and it shows. He's likely touting grand plans to try to buy more time so that COJ doesn't foreclose immediately or to try to give himself a little leverage in sales negotiations with a prospective buyer. At this point, I doubt COJ or other developers have any faith in his ability to pull this off.
It's tough for people to admit defeat, especially when they thought they were going to build a legacy project. But the reality is this guy needs to cut the crap and shop the property immediately to one of the many competent and capable developers that are interested in developing Downtown Jax. If not, COJ is going to drink his milkshake.
Quote from: CityLife on March 03, 2022, 11:38:09 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on March 03, 2022, 08:59:07 AM
Couldn't get the building demolished but people are expecting them to deliver the second tallest building in Jax......when there's clearly no market for a product of that scale? Good luck but I'm highly skeptical at this point.
The Park Beeler guy has no history of development either. Projects like this are not for amateurs and it shows. He's likely touting grand plans to try to buy more time so that COJ doesn't foreclose immediately or to try to give himself a little leverage in sales negotiations with a prospective buyer. At this point, I doubt COJ or other developers have any faith in his ability to pull this off.
It's tough for people to admit defeat, especially when they thought they were going to build a legacy project. But the reality is this guy needs to cut the crap and shop the property immediately to one of the many competent and capable developers that are interested in developing Downtown Jax. If not, COJ is going to drink his milkshake.
Personal legal issues notwithstanding, guy seems like a snake oil salesman.
https://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=15602.0
https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2004/05/17/story1.html
Just under 12 hours to go. What are the odds that this actually happens?
It happened. Odds were 100% once city money was committed to the demo. The bigger question is what are the odds of this high rise proposal actually becoming reality in our lifetimes? My prediction is zero percent.
Quote from: thelakelander on March 06, 2022, 11:59:25 AM
It happened. Odds were 100% once city money was committed to the demo. The bigger question is what are the odds of this high rise proposal actually becoming reality in our lifetimes? My prediction is zero percent.
The demo is a win by itself. Another process that took way longer than it should have and ended up costing taxpayers, but it's done, and that will make the property much more attractive to serious developers who didn't want to deal with that headache.
Speaking of odds, what's the line on this ending up as an Iguana venture too?
I'll say 20%. Seems like Iguana will have their hands full with the foreseeable future by focusing on properties east of Hogans Creek.
I can't imagine the feelings of joy and relief for anyone in Berkman I who had to stare out their window at that junk for 15 years. Gonna be some partying over there tonight!
Quote from: thelakelander on March 06, 2022, 01:12:34 PM
I'll say 20%. Seems like Iguana will have their hands full with the foreseeable future by focusing on properties east of Hogans Creek.
I'd say at least 40%, because the city will likely own the land soon, and Iguana would rather have control over it and prevent any competition to their projects.
Like clockwork, a new rendering is out!
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/photo-gallery/pb-riverfront-releases-new-concept-for-former-berkman-ii-property
After value engineering and budget realities, it will end up as a 10-story version of the 3-color apartments we are seeing all over Jacksonville.
I laughed at one of the local news reports about the implosion tonight. They were talking to someone who lives in the Berkman who was gushing over their new view of the Hart Bridge and Sports Complex. If the Beeler comes through, bye-bye view (if I'm right, they may still be OK).
I truly wish Beeler & Co the best, and its would be great if they succeed. But, for goodness sake, they need to have the decency to succeed or fail quickly, so we can see some progress this year. If any element of their proposal requests a timeline extension, the city needs to take a hard line and move on.
Can't wait for the city to foreclose on this place then fumble around for years trying to market it as the latest and greatest vacant lot.
A real Sophie's choice: Beeler or COJ?
Miamiesque...yes? This brings to mind the two twins that were supposed to be built on the Southbank next to the Prudential building 15 or so years ago...also was Miamiesque. Looks good though. "Might be taller..." I like that.
^Lol, they do look pretty similar. I'll have to see if I can dig up an old rendering of that dead Southbank proposal.
I absolutely love the way it looks, but it also looks out of place. I'm not going to hold my breath though; we've had some amazing renderings of projects for downtown high rises and well... ;)
Quote from: heights unknown on March 06, 2022, 09:44:16 PM
Miamiesque...yes? This brings to mind the two twins that were supposed to be built on the Southbank next to the Prudential building 15 or so years ago...also was Miamiesque. Looks good though. "Might be taller..." I like that.
it brings it to mind because I think it's the exact same design. That's instantly what I thought when I saw it. I forget what they were called, but they were proposed back in 2008 and preceded "The St John".
^They were called Riverpointe and proposed by the South Shores Group around 2004 or 2005. Hines later came in and the project was rebranded as The St. John. Still looking for an old rendering.
https://www.globest.com/2005/12/02/hines-plans-q2-groundbreaking-on-estimated-78m-condo-project/?slreturn=20220207100537
There was an old metrojacksonville article called something like "Dead projects from the boom" that highlighted the many proposed 2005-2008 projects that never came to fruition.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on March 07, 2022, 09:37:49 AM
Quote from: heights unknown on March 06, 2022, 09:44:16 PM
Miamiesque...yes? This brings to mind the two twins that were supposed to be built on the Southbank next to the Prudential building 15 or so years ago...also was Miamiesque. Looks good though. "Might be taller..." I like that.
it brings it to mind because I think it's the exact same design. That's instantly what I thought when I saw it. I forget what they were called, but they were proposed back in 2008 and preceded "The St John".
The St John was where The Southerly has been built today
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-JVCpJwX/0/L/i-JVCpJwX-L.jpg)
(https://photos.metrojacksonville.com/History/Unbuilt-Skyscrapers/i-JVCpJwX/A)
(https://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/plog-content/images/development/building-boom/st_john_final.jpg)
St Johns Point was encompassing the current Marriot hotel and JEA site
(https://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/plog-content/images/development/building-boom/st_johns_point.jpg)
Basically the same conceptual rendering, without the spire and a curved roof. I seriously doubt this comes to fruition.
Quote from: thelakelander on March 07, 2022, 10:40:41 AM
Basically the same conceptual rendering, without the spire and a curved roof. I seriously doubt this comes to fruition.
Considering the 'developer' has a history of not coming through on, well anything (including paying past judgements on other projects), over the past several decades.... and can't even legally drive himself around... then, yeah...
I hope this comes to fruition but the original rendering seemed more realistic
https://photos.moderncities.com/photos/i-8QCJFHX/0/L/i-8QCJFHX-L.png
At least Smashmouth will have somewhere to play when work at the Landing gets underway.
Got my radar up :). I realize it is likely a long shot this concept depicted gets built but I do see, once again, an intention to build tall structures up to the edge of the water. Expect Fields to say I am antidevelopment but not so... I just don't want to see a "wall" lining the riverfront.
Further, if this deal falls through and the land reverts back to City control, it should added to the green space vision promoted by the DuPont Trust and friends. That's my ultimate vision for the river's banks. Build the high rises one block back.
(https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/sites/default/files/379129_standard.jpeg)
Which happens first, this or Sea Glass Tower? : )
Quote from: fsu813 on March 08, 2022, 10:03:39 AM
Which happens first, this or Sea Glass Tower? : )
Fuddrucker's at the Landing before either.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on March 07, 2022, 11:17:39 PM
Got my radar up :). I realize it is likely a long shot this concept depicted gets built but I do see, once again, an intention to build tall structures up to the edge of the water. Expect Fields to say I am antidevelopment but not so... I just don't want to see a "wall" lining the riverfront.
Further, if this deal falls through and the land reverts back to City control, it should added to the green space vision promoted by the DuPont Trust and friends. That's my ultimate vision for the river's banks. Build the high rises one block back.
(https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/sites/default/files/379129_standard.jpeg)
How about starting a "new" trend; building the skyscrapers IN the water, or the River. LOL
Quote from: heights unknown on March 08, 2022, 10:04:14 PM
How about starting a "new" trend; building the skyscrapers IN the water, or the River. LOL
Give that location a few years - it will be in the river!
Quote from: Dolph1975 on March 07, 2022, 08:54:33 AM
I absolutely love the way it looks, but it also looks out of place.
Bingo
Quote from: heights unknown on March 06, 2022, 09:44:16 PM
Miamiesque...yes? This brings to mind the two twins that were supposed to be built on the Southbank next to the Prudential building 15 or so years ago...also was Miamiesque. Looks good though. "Might be taller..." I like that.
Late 90's Miami maybe. This looks like a cheap recycled set of designs from 15 years ago. These are the types of buildings being built in Miami these days.
(https://i.imgur.com/8l7eaUi.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/6jgS63w.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Y3eJnDp.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZDA1SHn.jpg)
[https://i.imgur.com/x2LwB3F.jpg][/img]
(https://i.imgur.com/ddEctyO.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/hH0xK0d.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JJOk3Mk.jpg)
Here are the 22 tallest under construction in Miami now.
https://www.thenextmiami.com/these-are-the-22-tallest-miami-towers-under-construction-in-2022/
It's definitely a recycled design. They couldn't pull off demolishing Berkman 2. I just have a really hard time believing anything associated with this one.
Also, the owner is saying the cost is estimated at $170 million. He's probably still using 2005 cost estimates....
This is the most similar project I could find underway in Miami/Florida. It is 44 stories and is 546 feet. The Jax project is supposed to be 40 stories and 550 feet. This one has a construction loan of $345 million.
(https://i.imgur.com/r1NdSaa.jpeg)
It is close to the beach, so there might be extra structural costs and I imagine the finishes/interior buildout costs are much higher, but still. There is no way a 550' building gets built in the next few years for anything under $200 million. Heck, this 25 story building in West Palm Beach cost over $200 million and it was done before construction costs really skyrocketed.
(https://www.miamiresidence.com/media/com_estateagent/categories/ea_cat_bristol_palm_beach_757768268.jpg)
Quote from: thelakelander on March 09, 2022, 12:48:04 PM
It's definitely a recycled design. They couldn't pull off demolishing Berkman 2. I just have a really hard time believing anything associated with this one.
Yeah, I didn't have much faith to start with, then after reading the story Josh posted, there is no chance.
I think Park Beeler is another Peter Abbott, if you remember that rascal.
Quote from: CityLife on March 09, 2022, 12:43:42 PM
Quote from: heights unknown on March 06, 2022, 09:44:16 PM
Miamiesque...yes? This brings to mind the two twins that were supposed to be built on the Southbank next to the Prudential building 15 or so years ago...also was Miamiesque. Looks good though. "Might be taller..." I like that.
IMO "hideous."
Late 90's Miami maybe. This looks like a cheap recycled set of designs from 15 years ago. These are the types of buildings being built in Miami these days.
(https://i.imgur.com/8l7eaUi.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/6jgS63w.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Y3eJnDp.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZDA1SHn.jpg)
[https://i.imgur.com/x2LwB3F.jpg][/img]
(https://i.imgur.com/ddEctyO.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/hH0xK0d.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JJOk3Mk.jpg)
Here are the 22 tallest under construction in Miami now.
https://www.thenextmiami.com/these-are-the-22-tallest-miami-towers-under-construction-in-2022/
Quote from: CityLife on March 09, 2022, 01:01:26 PM
Also, the owner is saying the cost is estimated at $170 million. He's probably still using 2005 cost estimates....
This is the most similar project I could find underway in Miami/Florida. It is 44 stories and is 546 feet. The Jax project is supposed to be 40 stories and 550 feet. This one has a construction loan of $345 million.
It is close to the beach, so there might be extra structural costs and I imagine the finishes/interior buildout costs are much higher, but still. There is no way a 550' building gets built in the next few years for anything under $200 million. Heck, this 25 story building in West Palm Beach cost over $200 million and it was done before construction costs really skyrocketed.
Yea, but they're using coquina in lieu of steel. There in lies the cost savings.
Why is this even being discussed? This guy isn't going to do shit and the city will end up with the property. End of story.
So how long does the legal process take to seize the property and get it free and clear so the city can put out an RFP? Beeler claimed they have 90 days to resolve the lien, but assuming they don't do so, then what?
Auction scheduled for March 25th.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2024/mar/11/berkman-ii-property-in-downtown-may-be-auctioned-march-25/
OK auctioned, and I know we don't have a crystal ball...but then what?
I don't know what it will be.
But, it will be a game-changer!
It will take Downtown Jax to The Next Level!
It might even be a Fudruckers!!
Or a WaWa's
Barnes and Noble maybe?
Gas station with a car wash coupled with a smoothie drive-thru stand.