https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/bank-of-america-tower-sells-in-dollar75-5-million-deal
Quote
McDonald said previously the building will sell "at a substantial discount to replacement cost," meaning it would cost more to build a structure of that size than the sales price.
At an industry estimate of $225 to $400 per square foot, a tower that size could cost up to $291 million to build new.
So for anyone hoping for a spec office building high-rise anytime soon.....
Anyone know the occupancy?
Less than $100 a SF and that is with a major parking garage to boot. Sold for millions less than it got six years ago. Pretty sobering numbers.
^Don't forget the garage that's in the BofA tower is actually pretty big too. That's actually a lot of parking for a high rise office building.
Of note, the new FIS headquarters is rumored to be $145M, with 358,092 SqFt so just over $400 SqFt
^Those types of numbers are exactly why the Northbank skyline hasn't changed much (and won't) since the 1980s/90s. We've never recovered from the consolidations that sent our locally headquartered banks and insurance companies to cities like Charlotte, Atlanta and Houston. In a sense, we're likely no different from Birmingham, Memphis or New Orleans when it comes to the need for new downtown highrise office space.
So obviously there is no issue tossing up a 5-6 story suburban spec office building in Jacksonville. Downtown property, while more expensive than the burbs, isn't worth THAT much.
Is there a building height that once crossed where the costs start to exponentially increase? I know in residential construction wood can go up 5 floors, which is why many midrises are built with a concrete pedestal underneath the 5 floors of wood.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 18, 2020, 11:36:05 AM
^Those types of numbers are exactly why the Northbank skyline hasn't changed much (and won't) since the 1980s/90s. We've never recovered from the consolidations that sent our locally headquartered banks and insurance companies to cities like Charlotte, Atlanta and Houston. In a sense, we're likely no different from Birmingham, Memphis or New Orleans when it comes to the need for new downtown highrise office space.
I took a quick look at Charlotte. Your point is well taken about company HQs. High Rises (~30+ floors) in charlotte since 2000:
- Duke Energy Center (Duke is based in Charlotte)
- Hearst Tower (while named for Heart a major occupant is BofA, based in Charlotte)
- Bank of America Tower
- 1 Bank of America Center
- Three Wells Fargo Center (built as First Union's HQ)
- Museum Tower (Residential)
- Ascent Uptown (Residential)
- Avenue (Residential)
- Ally Charlotte Center (26 floors, for Ally Financial but not their HQ. Also contains a JW Marriott Hotel)
- The Ellis (Residential)
- Lowe's Global Technology Center (23 floors, will house Lowe's Technology. Lowe's is based in Suburban Charlotte - Mooresville)
(this actually doesn't include the BofA Corporate Center, their official HQ. That was built in 1992 as the NCNB HQ)
Quote from: Steve on December 18, 2020, 11:48:18 AM
So obviously there is no issue tossing up a 5-6 story suburban spec office building in Jacksonville. Downtown property, while more expensive than the burbs, isn't worth THAT much.
Is there a building height that once crossed where the costs start to exponentially increase? I know in residential construction wood can go up 5 floors, which is why many midrises are built with a concrete pedestal underneath the 5 floors of wood.
I don't think there is a need. FIS is going up 12 stories for a +300,000 SF building and that's a once in a generation type thing. JEA was the best chance we had recently. That building (even the short 7 story version), if built on top of the parking garage they're constructing, would have been impactful and only taken up a half city block.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 18, 2020, 12:54:06 PM
Quote from: Steve on December 18, 2020, 11:48:18 AM
So obviously there is no issue tossing up a 5-6 story suburban spec office building in Jacksonville. Downtown property, while more expensive than the burbs, isn't worth THAT much.
Is there a building height that once crossed where the costs start to exponentially increase? I know in residential construction wood can go up 5 floors, which is why many midrises are built with a concrete pedestal underneath the 5 floors of wood.
I don't think there is a need. FIS is going up 12 stories for a +300,000 SF building and that's a once in a generation type thing. JEA was the best chance we had recently. That building (even the short 7 story version), if built on top of the parking garage they're constructing, would have been impactful and only taken up a half city block.
Ballpark, how much would that have added to the construction cost? You'd effectively have a 15-16 story building. You'd probably leave the first floor as is, then the 8 story garage, then the additional 6-7 office floors.
In most cities, I'm guessing this would make more sense because the cost of dirt would be a lot more than here.
Now, FIS also did a separate garage from their building. Again, they had (consiering an urban location) a HUGE piece of land.
I wonder if Khan is looking at this sale and questioning Lot J. This doesn't demonstrate a good return on Downtown area office space. And, this building is a Class A+ structure. The sales price is so cheap one has to wonder how anyone could get a return on building new unless it is build-to-suit.
Trivia: The Jax tower is a scaled down variation on this building, the Park Avenue Tower (at 65 E 55th Street between Madison and Park Avenues), in Manhattan. Both designed by Helmut Jahn.
Manhattan:
(https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/warehouse/v1.0/publiccontent/c0099408-9350-47af-a21b-0b60b7ed00a6)
(https://images.skyscrapercenter.com/building/parkavetower_mg.jpg)
(https://c8.alamy.com/comp/PH5AJ9/park-avenue-tower-midtown-manhattan-new-york-city-usa-PH5AJ9.jpg)
Barnett/BofA building:
(https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/sites/default/files/_1488470245bank-of-america-with-csx-jump.jpg)
^^ I like the JAX version better. Always thought it was a timeless and attractive building. I think it was originally proposed for where the T-U Performing Arts center is. That was before the PAC was renovated and enlarged. I seem to remember it was more of a civic auditorium then.
It's really not dissimilar from Liberty Place in Philadelphia too - both of those towers are also Jahn designs.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on December 18, 2020, 01:39:28 PM
Trivia: The Jax tower is a scaled down variation on this building, the Park Avenue Tower (at 65 E 55th Street between Madison and Park Avenues), in Manhattan. Both designed by Helmut Jahn.
Agreed, love the design.
I think ours is actually a scaled up version, right?
Quote from: Ken_FSU on December 18, 2020, 02:29:43 PM
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on December 18, 2020, 01:39:28 PM
Trivia: The Jax tower is a scaled down variation on this building, the Park Avenue Tower (at 65 E 55th Street between Madison and Park Avenues), in Manhattan. Both designed by Helmut Jahn.
Agreed, love the design.
I think ours is actually a scaled up version, right?
From my count they are roughly the same size with ours being maybe a couple floors taller.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on December 18, 2020, 02:43:13 PM
Quote from: Ken_FSU on December 18, 2020, 02:29:43 PM
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on December 18, 2020, 01:39:28 PM
Trivia: The Jax tower is a scaled down variation on this building, the Park Avenue Tower (at 65 E 55th Street between Madison and Park Avenues), in Manhattan. Both designed by Helmut Jahn.
Agreed, love the design.
I think ours is actually a scaled up version, right?
From my count they are roughly the same size with ours being maybe a couple floors taller.
Per Park Avenue Tower website and Google search, the NYC building is 36 stories and 561 feet high: https://www.parkavetower.com/#transformation (https://www.parkavetower.com/#transformation)
Per BofA Tower website and Wikipedia, our building is 42 stories and 617 feet high: http://www.bankofamericatowerjax.com/ (http://www.bankofamericatowerjax.com/)
Quote from: Steve on December 18, 2020, 01:31:40 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on December 18, 2020, 12:54:06 PM
Quote from: Steve on December 18, 2020, 11:48:18 AM
So obviously there is no issue tossing up a 5-6 story suburban spec office building in Jacksonville. Downtown property, while more expensive than the burbs, isn't worth THAT much.
Is there a building height that once crossed where the costs start to exponentially increase? I know in residential construction wood can go up 5 floors, which is why many midrises are built with a concrete pedestal underneath the 5 floors of wood.
I don't think there is a need. FIS is going up 12 stories for a +300,000 SF building and that's a once in a generation type thing. JEA was the best chance we had recently. That building (even the short 7 story version), if built on top of the parking garage they're constructing, would have been impactful and only taken up a half city block.
Ballpark, how much would that have added to the construction cost? You'd effectively have a 15-16 story building. You'd probably leave the first floor as is, then the 8 story garage, then the additional 6-7 office floors.
In most cities, I'm guessing this would make more sense because the cost of dirt would be a lot more than here.
Now, FIS also did a separate garage from their building. Again, they had (considering an urban location) a HUGE piece of land.
When the JEA project was first proposed, I expected something in the range of 15 stories, similar to what Progress Energy (now Duke Energy) built in Downtown St. Pete in 2007. That 234-foot tall, 18-story building includes about 8 levels of garage parking. It cost $75 million to construct. However, I never imagined that the garage and building would be completely separate structures, consuming an entire city block. It's a more suburban approach but I can't say it makes the project higher or cheaper since there are likely other design elements at play that alter the price per square foot.
(https://images1.loopnet.com/i2/mkBuPO6YRcOrGstb40sPYpI-F24qVNscqrgsAVvHRMs/110/111-3rd-St-N-Saint-Petersburg-FL-299-1st-Ave-N-Saint-Petersburg-FL-33701-1-Large.jpg)
https://www.coopercarry.com/projects/duke-energy-formerly-progress-energy/
(https://images1.loopnet.com/i2/2Rquxd8OLsKU9nGFH87tr4s6Di_ynBgqMgpg3qfQ5F8/116/image.jpg)
Summit Consulting Group is building a 135,000 SF corporate headquarters in Downtown Lakeland. It's an 8-story building made up of a 4-floor, 450 space parking garage with 4 floors of offices on top of it. The cost is $50 million. The JEA headquarters is slightly larger at 162,000 SF but with an adjacent 657-space garage. The total cost is $72.2 million.
https://www.lkldnow.com/summit-reveals-plans-for-8-story-downtown-office/
https://www.cpexecutive.com/post/summit-holdings-breaks-ground-on-50m-hq/
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Lakeland-December-2020/i-xdXrH6q/0/a704f3a4/X3/20201212_160757-X3.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Lakeland-December-2020/i-rMGN7RW/0/01ccbdaa/X3/20201212_163624-X3.jpg)
I do believe that a city has to nail the design of these types of projects right when they come along. They can make or break a pedestrian scale experience of a downtown district. Unfortunately, we're not that far yet. We still don't have a comprehensive master plan that identifies street types. If we did, the retail in the JEA garage would be on Adams and Lofts of Monroe (including its empty retail space) would be flipped to Adams instead of lesser traveled streets like Monroe and Julia.
^With BOA being sold, the Wells Fargo building about to begin major lobby renovations, and the potential Omni sale, hopefully existing and new building owners will be more receptive to engaging the sidewalks than they have been in the past.