According to a claim (https://twitter.com/julieinjax/status/1329260121730453505?s=20) about DCPS school board member Lori Hershey:
QuoteToday I introduced a resolution for the board to consider options to move off the river. We will vote on it in Dec.
Is it just me, or, between MOSH, the District, and now this, is the Southbank is getting shafted right now?
LOL. The DCPS School Board can move to Lot J! Maybe Khan will even donate $5 million to the schools to get it done. Of course, he will want the development rights to the DCPS's current riverfront property in return plus another multi-million dollar sweetheart deal with his buddy, Curry.
It does seem like a waste to have a school board building on prime property.
It's a waste. It would be a waste to build a new office from scratch as well. Hopefully, they can fill some empty downtown office building.
Quote from: marcuscnelson on November 18, 2020, 10:34:45 PM
Is it just me, or, between MOSH, the District, and now this, is the Southbank is getting shafted right now?
Leanna Cumber said last night that the District is starting construction, so you can take that to the bank [/sarcasm]
^Starting construction will basically be pushing some dirt around to build some streets and to extend the riverwalk. Haven't heard of or seen anything regarding vertical construction of any residential or commercial structure related to this development.
While it is wonderful to be on the river and have some of those views, they sorely need a new building. I worked there for a few years, and in the wintertime the boilers kept breaking down and there seemed to be no insulation in the place (windows, etc.) to speak of. It was actually very cold in there, in my own experience, even when wearing layers and layers and layers of clothing and socks. Agreed, there are many vacant buildings downtown they should consider before going to the great expense and wait of building new. Something else to consider; their Accounting office is downtown in the old Technical High School - would they want something large enough to accommodate the entire DCPS administration system under the same roof? How insulated is the old Armory building, downtown? What about the (soon to be) old JEA building...what other buildings do you think might be a good space for them?
The old Armory is being renovated into a food hall, artist and office space. I doubt they'll have enough space for DCPS to be a tenant. Depending on how much space they need, there's a lot of flexibility with what's available. Most of the Enterprise Center is still vacant. The Universal Marion building will also be available when JEA moves in a couple of years. There's also smaller vacant buildings like the former Furchgotts.
DCPS probably wants to own its offices. Are there any buildings that are for sale that would meet the space requirement? What IS the space requirement anyway?
Quote from: vicupstate on November 20, 2020, 10:02:45 AM
DCPS probably wants to own its offices. Are there any buildings that are for sale that would meet the space requirement? What IS the space requirement anyway?
If FBC was open to a piecemeal project, then perhaps one of their buildings and a parking garage could work too.
The currently DCPS building is just over 122k SqFt. For context Furschgott's is 57k all in (including the basement), so they'd need 2 of them. Universal Marion is 222k, not including the old Ivey's, so that's a little big. I know DCPS has property elsewhere, so maybe they could consolidate some stuff downtown. Obviously there's the old T-U building, but if the goal is to get off the river then you really didn't accomplish that.
I couldn't see them leasing. If they bought it would be government owned (so no property taxes), so it's probably more economical to own.
Quote from: Steve on November 20, 2020, 10:29:18 AM
Quote from: vicupstate on November 20, 2020, 10:02:45 AM
DCPS probably wants to own its offices. Are there any buildings that are for sale that would meet the space requirement? What IS the space requirement anyway?
If FBC was open to a piecemeal project, then perhaps one of their buildings and a parking garage could work too.
The currently DCPS building is just over 122k SqFt. For context Furschgott's is 57k all in (including the basement), so they'd need 2 of them. Universal Marion is 222k, not including the old Ivey's, so that's a little big. I know DCPS has property elsewhere, so maybe they could consolidate some stuff downtown. Obviously there's the old T-U building, but if the goal is to get off the river then you really didn't accomplish that.
I couldn't see them leasing. If they bought it would be government owned (so no property taxes), so it's probably more economical to own.
Check that - the 222k INCLUDES the Ivey's. I can't figure out (easily) what the split is between Ivey's and the Tower. Perhaps one or the other may work? Perhaps they could get the Laura St. Garage from FBC (not sure of they'd be motivated to do a deal for just that), keeping the old JEA garage for the other half of the development, which could be private?
Look at that, Duval Schools got their tax increase and already they're looking to spend it on what they're already overspending on --> administration and back office. SOOOOPRISE, SOOOOPRISE. That's how monopolies roll, y'll.
Anywhoooooooo, this may be testing the waters. __IF__ that development at the old generator land next door actually secures funding ( BIG IF ), their spot next door to it is going to be a lot more enticing.
Throw in the glut of Class A office space downtown JAX and the move may practically pay for itself.
Ivey's is 180k SF. That could be another option. If they desired their own space at that much square footage, own parking, etc., that would likely push them into possibly having to buy a large building with parking or building new. How large is the building Stein Mart is located in and how much space do they take up?
Quote from: bl8jaxnative on November 20, 2020, 10:40:15 AM
Look at that, Duval Schools got their tax increase and already they're looking to spend it on what they're already overspending on --> administration and back office. SOOOOPRISE, SOOOOPRISE. That's how monopolies roll, y'll.
Anywhoooooooo, this may be testing the waters. __IF__ that development at the old generator land next door actually secures funding ( BIG IF ), their spot next door to it is going to be a lot more enticing.
Throw in the glut of Class A office space downtown JAX and the move may practically pay for itself.
I'm pretty sure the goal of moving would be a net increase in value. Next door to them is a new apartment complex, so selling the property shouldn't be hard.
I don't see them leasing space in a tower. Commercial office buildings are private and pays property tax, so any landlord isn't going to give DCPS a break to be a nice guy; they'd have to buy/build something.
Quote from: thelakelander on November 20, 2020, 10:41:29 AM
Ivey's is 180k SF. That could be another option. If they desired their own space at that much square footage, own parking, etc., that would likely push them into possibly having to buy a large building with parking or building new. How large is the building Stein Mart is located in and how much space do they take up?
Stein Mart building is 250k, plus it's partially occupied still. I know TD Bank has offices in it.
How about building new on land of one of their closed schools?
One interesting property already owned by DCPS is at King Street and McCoys Creek. They use it currently for their maintenance dept. but with the coming of the restoration of McCoys Creek and the Emerald Trail adjacent it could become very attractive for offices. If I figured it right, it looks to be on about 19 acres and has at least one "historic" school building on it that could be a renovated/restored front for a major contemporary expansion. It would also boost a downtrodden neighborhood, be close to a lot of inner city schools that are becoming more critical to their mission, remains somewhat geographically central to the county, would be easily accessible from Beaver Street, a short block away, on less expensive land they already own, and pays tribute to one historic/legacy school building.
^ This is what St. Johns County has done. Taken several of their early schools and turned them into main offices and district facilities. Although the King St. site in question seems rather far from downtown proper. Assuming the Jags don't suddenly get the bright idea to offer them a space at Lot J, I would think there should be a number of built or restorable sites downtown for them to buy if they wanted.
No idea how this would work, but one particularly bold idea would be to find a way to get MOCA to the new "museum district" at the Shipyards and see if DCPS would buy the building. Right there by City Hall, next door to the library, in the middle of it all.
If you're talking about the FBC property, the old First Baptist Academy building is right there, or the preschool building (although it being connected to the Lindsay Auditorium probably disqualifies it).
Going out to LaVilla and building near or at the School of the Arts is also an option.
Knowing DT needs all the help it can get with it's glut of office space in this post Covid landscape, every effort should be made to keep them downtown. Preferably into an existing space or new infill construction in a strategic site. It's not every day that someone will need more than 100k SF of office space. If you can't keep your public entities based in downtown, you shouldn't expect the private entities to be any different.
QuoteAlthough the King St. site in question seems rather far from downtown proper. Assuming the Jags don't suddenly get the bright idea to offer them a space at Lot J, I would think there should be a number of built or restorable sites downtown for them to buy if they wanted.
FYI, from the interchange of I-95 (treating it as the county's central corridor) and Beaver Street, per Google Maps, it appears the King Street property is about 3/10th of a mile closer (i.e. about 1.6 miles) to I-95 than Lot J (about 1.9 miles). Also, Google measurements show it is closer to the east-west center point of the county (which is actually a little further west than even King St.) than than Lot J or Downtown.
Quote from: thelakelander on November 20, 2020, 08:25:09 PM
Knowing DT needs all the help it can get with it's glut of office space in this post Covid landscape, every effort should be made to keep them downtown. Preferably into an existing space or new infill construction in a strategic site. It's not every day that someone will need more than 100k SF of office space. If you can't keep your public entities based in downtown, you shouldn't expect the private entities to be any different.
I get your point and Downtown needs the help, no doubt. But north Riverside might need it more ;D. If Downtown was properly managed, it would more easily attract prospects like this than the area around this closed school. Just sayin'. Either option is a win of sorts.
LOL. Why are we even discussing DCSB locating to King Street and McCoys creek? Never ever going to happen.
Technical High School would be a good residential adaptive reuse project. Mixontown could really use some visionary planning and policy changes right away. Without them, it will gentrify fairly quickly with the restoration of McCoys Creek.
Quote from: acme54321 on November 20, 2020, 08:44:36 PM
LOL. Why are we even discussing DCSB locating to King Street and McCoys creek? Never ever going to happen.
Its called thinking outside the box. It may not be feasible, probable or a good idea for many reasons, but at least it stretches one's vision and pushes planners to be more creative in finding acceptable solutions. If Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos listened to "never ever going to happen" few would ever know who they were. The greatest opportunities are found where few others have gone before.
Look at some of the "old" buildings changing hands in the urban core lately that are being repurposed for novel new uses. Who would expect U-Haul to put a mini-storage in a nearly 100 year old building? Or that, around the corner, Dennis & Ives would be converting an old freezer warehouse into an office, food and entertainment complex in a traditionally industrial neighborhood? Or that a giant candy store would move into the stuffy remains of a once prestigious men's-only club? Or that someone would spend tens of millions to convert the aged Union warehouse in another industrial neighborhood into apartments? Or that, one day, a billionaire NFL owner (who, by the way, started his own company when his employer dissed his ideas for a better car bumper as "never ever going to happen") would want to build a near half-billion residential-office-entertainment complex on what used to be a tank farm that remains a brownfield?
Its the old saw, there is no such thing as a bad idea. If nothing else, as Lake noted, maybe it focuses another party to take a second look at the property for some other purpose.
"It does seem like a waste to have a school board building on prime property."
Well FYI downtown Jacksonville waterfront is not considered prime property, which is why so much of it is vacant.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on November 20, 2020, 11:39:14 PM
Quote from: acme54321 on November 20, 2020, 08:44:36 PM
LOL. Why are we even discussing DCSB locating to King Street and McCoys creek? Never ever going to happen.
Its called thinking outside the box. It may not be feasible, probable or a good idea for many reasons, but at least it stretches one's vision and pushes planners to be more creative in finding acceptable solutions. If Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos listened to "never ever going to happen" few would ever know who they were. The greatest opportunities are found where few others have gone before.
Haha, don't flatter yourself Elon. ;D
Update!
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/education/2020/12/06/duval-school-board-riverfront-property-jacksonville-southbank/3794652001/
Quote from: MusicMan on November 21, 2020, 12:24:42 PM
"It does seem like a waste to have a school board building on prime property."
Well FYI downtown Jacksonville waterfront is not considered prime property, which is why so much of it is vacant.
The overwhelming majority of vacant waterfront property in Downtown is owned by COJ. The disposition of that land into private hands is muddled completely due to the prevailing politics of the day (going back 40 years now).
The development of Downtown waterfront properties that are/were in private hands, is handled vastly more efficient than COJ's stewardship.
Spoke with Lori Hershey today, they're expecting an update on this next month.