For those who don't follow this much, there is a lot of reorg talk going on with Minor League Baseball. Here's an interesting rumor that seems to have (some) legs:
QuoteThere should be less change on the Triple-A and Double-A fronts. Three Triple-A teams—San Antonio, Fresno and Wichita—have been designated to move from Triple-A to Double-A's Texas League or (in the case of Fresno) to what will be the Low-A Cal League. Taking their place: St. Paul, where the Minnesota Twins could affiliate with the St. Paul Saints; Sugar Land and Jacksonville, which will become the Miami Marlins' top affiliate. Miami is one of the winners in the realignment, with a Triple-A affiliate just up the coast and the addition of Pensacola as a Double-A affiliate. Texas and Houston are also winners, with league alignments designed to protect their investments in High-A and Low-A markets.
https://ballparkdigest.com/2020/11/02/details-of-mlb-takeover-of-milb-emerge/
Cool!
Great news!! Now we just need a season...
Interesting.
Got to be a slap in the face for Wichita who just invested in a new ballpark and moved New Orleans triple A team out there. I think San Antonio were trying to get a new ballpark as well.
I'd miss the Southern League in some ways because its a bunch of other teams in the region but I feel our peers are much more Memphis, Indy, Columbus etc than Biloxi or Chattanooga.
Assuming the 2021 International League keeps the same teams, just adding Jacksonville (the 3 teams mentioned are in the Pacific Coast League), we would be in a division with Charlotte, NC; Durham, NC; Gwinnett (Lawrenceville), GA; and Norfolk, VA. Gwinnet would be our closest neighbor and Norfolk the most distant.
We would get to play Max Klinger's favorite team a few times a year - the Toledo Mud Hens!
There is a financial aspect to this. Tickets WILL go up. AAA teams travel by plane, not bus.
Quote from: Steve on November 12, 2020, 09:54:44 AM
There is a financial aspect to this. Tickets WILL go up. AAA teams travel by plane, not bus.
For the whole International* League the distances are much greater than within the Southern League. However, for the Southern Division, where we would (presumably) play most of our games, the distances are comparable, averaging about 400 straight-line miles.
The teams do not have ticket information posted on their websites, so comparing prices isn't possible right now.
* the International League, by the way, is not international, all US teams.
This realignment of the Minor Leagues had to happen but it sucks that they are following the model of Football and Basketball for hiring unpaid labor to staff more of its bottom-rung affiliates. I know players especially from foreign countries were incredibly underpaid but at least it was something. Now there will be far less options for opportunities for players not on a scholarship or not needing compensation to prove themselves but this will inevitably lead to levels of corruption and deception currently unseen in "amateur" sports.
Quote from: Charles Hunter on November 12, 2020, 04:37:21 PM
Quote from: Steve on November 12, 2020, 09:54:44 AM
There is a financial aspect to this. Tickets WILL go up. AAA teams travel by plane, not bus.
For the whole International* League the distances are much greater than within the Southern League. However, for the Southern Division, where we would (presumably) play most of our games, the distances are comparable, averaging about 400 straight-line miles.
The teams do not have ticket information posted on their websites, so comparing prices isn't possible right now.
* the International League, by the way, is not international, all US teams.
If they can stay under 500 miles then they're good. Anything over 500 must be traveled by plane. If they do move to the Southern Division, then their Division opponents would be Charlotte, Durham, Gwinnett (Atlanta), and Norfolk. Norfolk would be a plane, and Durham would likely come down to where the stadium was (downtown to downtown is 478 miles). Charlotte and Gwinnett would be fine by bus.
In looking at the Norfolk Tides schedule, they look to play their division opponents 16-20 times, while their out of division teams they play 6-10 times. Now assuming half were home, that's still a fair amount of games far enough that they'll need to fly.
Now, it's the minors - things aren't perfectly balanced like MLB or the NFL. In the IL the North, South, and West divisions have 6, 4, and 4 teams respectively. The International League is an eastern US league - their "West" division is Columbus, Indy, Toledo, and Louisville. They do TRY to help out the teams a bit so travel isn't a giant expense. At the same time, some amount of air travel is probably desired for development, considering that AAA is the last stop before MLB and almost all travel in MLB is by Plane.
Players are paid more, but thankfully that's a issue for the parent club (coaches as well) that Miami has anyway.
Additionally, I'd like to compare the stadiums when I have some time - 121 Financial is nice for an AA team, but there may be some stadium work if this does come to fruition.
Quote from: Steve on November 12, 2020, 09:54:44 AM
Players are paid more, but thankfully that's a issue for the parent club (coaches as well) that Miami has anyway.
Additionally, I'd like to compare the stadiums when I have some time - 121 Financial is nice for an AA team, but there may be some stadium work if this does come to fruition.
I've read that MLB is trying to force more of the player costs onto the minor league teams. Of course, you read a lot of things about this realignment.
I've been to Louisville, Norfolk and Indy's stadiums and don't feel a discernable level of difference to the baseball grounds here. Norfolk had a nice club area attached to the skyboxes, but didn't notice any real difference between the Indy club level and the skybox area at the Baseball Grounds.
Louisville has a brewery (Against the Grain.. which is fantastic) built within the stadium, whereas here we have to walk a whole block to get to Intuition Ale Works (which is also fantastic).
The biggest difference between Louisville/Indy and Jax, was not so much the stadium, but what was within easy walking distance (hotels, bars, restaurants, etc) from the stadium. Here you have to walk past about 3/4 to 1 mile of dead space.
Quote from: fieldafm on November 13, 2020, 10:32:30 AM
The biggest difference between Louisville/Indy and Jax, was not so much the stadium, but what was within easy walking distance (hotels, bars, restaurants, etc) from the stadium. Here you have to walk past about 3/4 to 1 mile of dead space.
Amen. Columbus is an amazing example of this as well.
Quote from: Steve on November 13, 2020, 09:51:35 AM
Quote from: Charles Hunter on November 12, 2020, 04:37:21 PM
Quote from: Steve on November 12, 2020, 09:54:44 AM
There is a financial aspect to this. Tickets WILL go up. AAA teams travel by plane, not bus.
For the whole International* League the distances are much greater than within the Southern League. However, for the Southern Division, where we would (presumably) play most of our games, the distances are comparable, averaging about 400 straight-line miles.
The teams do not have ticket information posted on their websites, so comparing prices isn't possible right now.
* the International League, by the way, is not international, all US teams.
If they can stay under 500 miles then they're good. Anything over 500 must be traveled by plane. If they do move to the Southern Division, then their Division opponents would be Charlotte, Durham, Gwinnett (Atlanta), and Norfolk. Norfolk would be a plane, and Durham would likely come down to where the stadium was (downtown to downtown is 478 miles). Charlotte and Gwinnett would be fine by bus.
In looking at the Norfolk Tides schedule, they look to play their division opponents 16-20 times, while their out of division teams they play 6-10 times. Now assuming half were home, that's still a fair amount of games far enough that they'll need to fly.
Now, it's the minors - things aren't perfectly balanced like MLB or the NFL. In the IL the North, South, and West divisions have 6, 4, and 4 teams respectively. The International League is an eastern US league - their "West" division is Columbus, Indy, Toledo, and Louisville. They do TRY to help out the teams a bit so travel isn't a giant expense. At the same time, some amount of air travel is probably desired for development, considering that AAA is the last stop before MLB and almost all travel in MLB is by Plane.
Players are paid more, but thankfully that's a issue for the parent club (coaches as well) that Miami has anyway.
Additionally, I'd like to compare the stadiums when I have some time - 121 Financial is nice for an AA team, but there may be some stadium work if this does come to fruition.
Schedules typically send southern division teams on longer roadies to the northern division, so Gwinnett would fly to Rochester and bus around to Buffalo and Syracuse.
Why hasn't anyone from the local sports media picked up on this story? It seems that it would be kind of a big deal if it comes to fruition.
Quote from: jsjax37 on November 21, 2020, 07:45:39 PM
Why hasn't anyone from the local sports media picked up on this story? It seems that it would be kind of a big deal if it comes to fruition.
I've been wondering too.
^Similiar note on "sports" and media coverage.
AEW has got to be one of the most underreported local stories of the last year and a half.
We've got a hugely successful live television program eminating weekly in primetime from Daily's Place (with socially distanced crowds of up to 1,000 for big events) and I don't know if anyone in the local media even realizes it.
It's one of the highest rated shows in the key demos out there, even beating the NBA playoffs some nights, and TNT just gave them a nearly $200 million extension of their television deal.
You watch the show, and they namedrop Jacksonville about a hundred times every episode. Daily's hit the jackpot with the naming rights deal, as Daily's Place legitimately has gained national recognition because of the AEW program with the 18-44 crowd.
I think the most interesting part of the story is actually Tony Khan, and comparing his handling of AEW to Shad Khan's handling of the Jags. Guy is clearly very passionate and hands on with the product. He's out doing the media rounds. He's making himself available. And he's talking about how he literally loses sleep and makes major changes if AEW loses a night on cable to the competition. And, unlike his Dad at times, I've never once heard Tony talk about Jacksonville through a pinched nose. Every show opens with "Welcome to Jacksonville, home of the Jags." He talks really positively in the media about Jacksonville as AEW's homebase. His company is constantly doing fundraisers for local gun violence, women's shelters, etc.
Just seems like a good dude. If the Jags end up in Tony's hands one day, I think people would really like him (assuming we turn things around on the field, obviously).
Quote from: Ken_FSU on November 22, 2020, 10:06:37 AM
^Similiar note on "sports" and media coverage.
AEW has got to be one of the most underreported local stories of the last year and a half.
We've got a hugely successful live television program eminating weekly in primetime from Daily's Place (with socially distanced crowds of up to 1,000 for big events) and I don't know if anyone in the local media even realizes it.
Ahem.
https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/aew-is-making-jacksonville-a-wrestling-hotspot
^Still the best local coverage I've seen in the last year and a half on AEW.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on November 22, 2020, 10:06:37 AM
^Similiar note on "sports" and media coverage.
AEW has got to be one of the most underreported local stories of the last year and a half.
We've got a hugely successful live television program eminating weekly in primetime from Daily's Place (with socially distanced crowds of up to 1,000 for big events) and I don't know if anyone in the local media even realizes it.
It's one of the highest rated shows in the key demos out there, even beating the NBA playoffs some nights, and TNT just gave them a nearly $200 million extension of their television deal.
You watch the show, and they namedrop Jacksonville about a hundred times every episode. Daily's hit the jackpot with the naming rights deal, as Daily's Place legitimately has gained national recognition because of the AEW program with the 18-44 crowd.
I think the most interesting part of the story is actually Tony Khan, and comparing his handling of AEW to Shad Khan's handling of the Jags. Guy is clearly very passionate and hands on with the product. He's out doing the media rounds. He's making himself available. And he's talking about how he literally loses sleep and makes major changes if AEW loses a night on cable to the competition. And, unlike his Dad at times, I've never once heard Tony talk about Jacksonville through a pinched nose. Every show opens with "Welcome to Jacksonville, home of the Jags." He talks really positively in the media about Jacksonville as AEW's homebase. His company is constantly doing fundraisers for local gun violence, women's shelters, etc.
Just seems like a good dude. If the Jags end up in Tony's hands one day, I think people would really like him (assuming we turn things around on the field, obviously).
There seems to be a lot of Jags (and Fulham) fans who cite Tony Khan's interest in his wrestling company to be at the expense of the other roles he has with those teams.
Although I totally agree AEW has been a success story for Jacksonville that we hear little about. Are they using the stadium for office space/operations?
Ask and you shall receive.
(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Miscellaneous/Jumbo-Shrimp-1/i-LPBgWvQ/0/f73adfb6/X2/IMG_2203_HEIC-X2.jpg)
Quote
A pending realignment of minor league baseball has led to speculation that the Jacksonville Jumbo Shrimp could be promoted from class Double-A to Triple-A, the highest level in the minors. Could it happen?
Read more: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/could-the-jumbo-shrimp-be-headed-for-triple-a/
MiLB officially announced the Jax AAA move this morning.
This is really, really cool!
A not so favorable take on the contraction of the Minor Leagues from Mother Jones
Quote
Paying lots of people to play baseball was a problem, in developmental and financial terms, to be solved by paying substantially fewer people to play less baseball, in substantially fewer places. It's a testament to the almost religious levels of self-absorption among Major League owners and executives that they didn't think (or perhaps just did not care) about just how awful it sounds to tell people, publicly, that baseball games are a wasteful byproduct of professional baseball, as opposed to the entire point of professional baseball.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/12/monsters-of-2020-the-people-who-gutted-minor-league-baseball/?utm_source=pocket&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=pockethits
Related, good short piece on the Pros & Cons:
https://www.axios.com/minor-league-baseball-watch-2021-6121f637-4e7a-446c-995b-3ae79ec77132.html
It's kind of a mess right now in my eyes. Jacksonville was really one of the few "winners" in this as there were a lot more losers than winners.
Now, I say Winners in quotes as there are some considerations with the Shrimp going to AAA:
1. Ticket Prices will almost certainly increase. This is for a few reasons, but the biggest reason is that AAA teams generally fly to away games, versus AA teams who would usually take the Bus (though that may change a little going forward with more spacing)
2. There will be a bill for stadium improvements. 121 Financial was one of the nicest AA stadiums in America when built in 2003. Further, it was built to the minimum AAA standards. That was almost 20 years ago and there hasn't been a major renovation on the stadium since. My belief is we're probably in at least the bottom half of AAA parks (if not further down). Additionally, a big part of the MiLB restructuring is around more benefits for players in terms of training, etc. I could definitely see some renovations needed for players.
Overall I'm glad to see that we're moving up, but this isn't a free move so to speak.
^ I am always amazed that stadiums are never "good enough." When one looks back at stadiums from decades or more ago, it's amazing our ancestors could "put up" with just hot dogs and a Coke, sitting outdoors on hard bench seating, with "inadequate" bathrooms, no WIFI, no fancy scoreboards, etc. :).
What kinds of upgrades would you think the Baseball Grounds would need? I actually was OK with the old Wolfson Park so the current arena looks like a Rolls Royce stadium to me. Not that I don't appreciate the changes, just don't think all of them are "must haves" as a fan. I gather the owners like them for attracting "modern" and more "diverse" audiences and for providing added sources of revenue. Of course, the players probably enjoy some added amenities in the locker rooms and training facilities.
The real question is where does this "arms race end?
I mean I think it's for a few reasons - for one, AAA stadiums just simply tend to have more facilities for the players. A lot of that comes from the parent club (remember, players are under contract with the Miami Marlins, not the Shrimp). A friend told me as well that MLB might mandate some things like locker facilities for Female Umps, which sounds like that may have been coming regardless of the AAA move.
I don't see this being like an upgrade where we'll need to add a ton of luxury boxes, etc, though I could see more "group" areas.
In terms of Wolfson Park.....yea we can agree to disagree. I don't need the ballpark to be a palace but I'm good not using a Trough in the Mens Room.
The current stadium is really quite nice, and almost seems to have been built and designed in anticipation of a AAA team. Fan experience is great, I've really enjoyed my visits there, even at the rained-out Raines Ribault game last Friday. Plus, tickets getting more expensive is not a huge deal when the prices now are like $6 for the bleachers.
Bringing more talent to the field and actually getting to see your home team WIN once in a while would be more than worth the price of admission.
^The stadium was built so that it could meet Triple A specifications with a modest investment. IMO it's one of the best minor league stadiums at any level. I'm not sure all tickets will go up. Part of it will be just selling more tickets overall. The bigger marketing budgets that Triple A teams tend to have should help with that.
I don't think it would take much to meet AAA standards with the stadium. I've been to AAA parks in several other cities (Norfolk, Scranton) that are equal to or worse than the Baseball Grounds. There are a couple of newer AAA parks that are comparative palaces, resembling mini-MLB parks and centered in the heart of downtown areas. Charlotte and Memphis come to mind. But I think the Baseball Grounds are nice by any standard.
I just want my Thursty Thursdays back. Is that too much to ask? If I were to guess, I haven't watched a baseball game on TV since the 90s. Suns to Jumbo Shrimp games though? Let's get it.
Quote from: WarDamJagFan on February 17, 2021, 06:05:38 PM
I just want my Thursty Thursdays back. Is that too much to ask? If I were to guess, I haven't watched a baseball game on TV since the 90s. Suns to Jumbo Shrimp games though? Let's get it.
Right?!? The Thirsty Thursdays are a lot of fun. Also a good way to accidentally make for a really hungover Friday at the office...
Games will be Tuesday - Sunday...and the team has said Thirsty Thursdays and other regular promos will remain
https://www.milb.com/jacksonville/schedule
The website page about "Weekly Promotions" doesn't seem to be in sync with the Schedule - it talks about BOGO Mondays, but there aren't any Monday games. Makes me wonder if the other promotions are valid.
^ I read statements from team staff saying they intend to keep them
At the game tonight 8)
Pending City Council approval, the Shrimp and city have agreed to a lease extension through 2043.
Semi-interesting, and encouraging, that the Jumbo Shrimp expect the Baseball Grounds to be a viable AAA facility for another 22 years.
Question for those of you who were in Jax when the Better Jax plan was being developed:
Was it always a foregone conclusion that the new Baseball Grounds would be built at the sports complex where Wolfson Park was? Or was consideration given to building elsewhere downtown or in the surrounding neighborhoods?
There are obviously a lot of benefits to having shared infrastructure with TIAA Bank Field and VyStar Arena, but after being at so many cool urban baseball parks, I can't help but think of how cool it would have been to build the Baseball Grounds in the CBD proper, or maybe serving as an anchor to catalyze redevelopment in LaVilla or Springfield. 3,000-7,000 people, 71 times a year could be a real game changer.
^ I don't recall any other site being considered. Wolfson Park was considered antiquated (although I kind of liked its innocent charms - maybe because I went to games there back to my childhood) and they were clearly going to clean the site so it was available for reuse (and it spared the City buying more land somewhere else or fighting any surrounding area resistance). I think there was also a feeling that grouping it with the arena, Gator Bowl and the Fair Grounds just seemed to be a natural fit, maybe because of all the parking lots they could share, the nature of the area and its accessibility. That, and baseball fans were already in the habit of going to that location for games.
Sold out all weekend.
Great time was had despite the loss... long lines for all food items. Perhaps someone can explain the scant information provided by the scoreboard screen... no stats were provided. No batting average, RBI, ERA, Nothing except the players name and face and box score.
Began evening at a horribly understaffed Intuition and ended evening dodging pods of scooters going the wrong way and darting across streets. Someone is going to get killed...
Quote from: BridgeTroll on May 08, 2021, 08:09:42 AM
Great time was had despite the loss... long lines for all food items. Perhaps someone can explain the scant information provided by the scoreboard screen... no stats were provided. No batting average, RBI, ERA, Nothing except the players name and face and box score.
Began evening at a horribly understaffed Intuition and ended evening dodging pods of scooters going the wrong way and darting across streets. Someone is going to get killed...
Oh, the drama!
Quote from: Snaketoz on May 08, 2021, 08:29:14 AM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on May 08, 2021, 08:09:42 AM
Great time was had despite the loss... long lines for all food items. Perhaps someone can explain the scant information provided by the scoreboard screen... no stats were provided. No batting average, RBI, ERA, Nothing except the players name and face and box score.
Began evening at a horribly understaffed Intuition and ended evening dodging pods of scooters going the wrong way and darting across streets. Someone is going to get killed...
Oh, the drama!
Lol
Great to have baseball back.
Really fun piece by Mark Woods:
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/columns/mark-woods/2022/04/06/jacksonville-jumbo-shrimp-open-make-appreciate-minor-league-baseball/7225566001/
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2022/07/20/jumbo-shrimp-and-jacksonville-plan-changes-minor-league-ballpark/10068298002/
$25 million in publicly funded renovations to the Baseball Grounds over the next three years.
More details in the paywalled article above.
Quote"The Jacksonville Jumbo Shrimp and the city of Jacksonville are preparing for the largest round of construction at the city-owned baseball park since it opened nearly 20 years ago.
The biggest change for fans would be the removal of the bleacher seating behind right field to make room for a new entrance to the ballpark, the team's offices, and more concourse space and concession offerings.
The baseball park would be next in line for work that Babby said is needed to comply with new Major League Baseball standards for minor league ballparks while also positioning 121 Financial Ballpark as a "stadium of the future" for fans.
"The plan ultimately allows us to join hands with the city and commit to high-quality AAA baseball in Jacksonville for generations to come," Babby said.
Babby said moving the offices would free up space that's needed to enlarge the home and visitor clubhouses so they meet new standards established by Major League Baseball for their minor league affiliated clubs.
"We're living and working under a different set of rules in terms of facility compliance versus the way it has been forever and ever," he said.
"The plan ultimately allows us to join hands with the city and commit to high-quality AAA baseball in Jacksonville for generations to come," Babby said.
He said the goal will be to replace any loss of seating capacity from taking out the bleacher seating by expanding more room for group outings and family gatherings.
Can't wait for them to change their name to the Colossal Shrimp after these stadium upgrades.
Shrimp... Cocktail.... :o 8)
Congratulations to the Jumbo Shrimp winning the 2025 AAA National Minor League Championship earlier this morning 7-6 against Las Vegas. Blew a 4 run lead in the 9th but came back with a dramatic 2 run walk-off home run!
Was so glad I was able to catch a Jumbo Shrimp game earlier this summer and see some of those players I saw get to have this experience. Well deserved by these guys.
Congrats to the Shrimps! I don't think the local media gave them a fair shake in coverage for an ultimate national champion. Tiny mentions in the paper on the inside of the sports section. I also don't recall seeing the AAA league standings posted in the paper this season. Surprised given the emphasis on "local." Looks like Jags and high school hog most column inches.
Not always watching the local TV coverage but don't recall seeing any mention this week on what I did watch.
Triple AAA for the Marlins correct? Probably some future Marlins on the roster. I loved the Suns... always fun at the old ballpark (Wilson)?Congrats!!
Super exciting! Our first AAA championship since moving up, and our first championship, period, since 2014 I think!