Turn up your speakers and watch this coverage. Hear what the witness comments to Maggie Lorenz.
https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2020/10/19/shooting-at-arlington-heights-elementary-football-game-leaves-man-dead-and-7-yo-injured/
Yes, I think she brilliantly puts her finger on it. It must drive folks crazy to watch elite whites jump on the BLM bandwagon while completely ignoring the real issue that she describes so well.
LOL, what does BLM have to do with this event? While this is certainly tragic, it certainly doesn't discredit the reason why BLM was created.
who is discrediting BLM? I was referring to the mother's comments.
That video had a lot in it. The BLM comment didn't even register until I read your post. I just hope that out of all that was shown in that video, we don't drill it down to BLM vs Black on Black murder conversation. There's several people volunteering time to work on both of these issues and several other issues within the community not discussed in this particular incident. No one should be bothered about anyone desiring to spend their time helping any needed cause.
What she is saying is quite simply this --> we have problems that we need to fix. Those other things, those ain't things that we should be prioritizing. We need to prioritize our own lives, our own neighborhoods, our own city.
Quote from: bl8jaxnative on October 19, 2020, 05:33:35 PM
What she is saying is quite simply this --> we have problems that we need to fix. Those other things, those ain't things that we should be prioritizing. We need to prioritize our own lives, our own neighborhoods, our own city.
Surely no one would reasonably argue that we shouldn't try to stop cops from killing black people until we sort out all the other issues that plague society first? People can do more than one thing at a time - they can tackle more than one issue at a time.
^Bingo. What happened in Arlington doesn't have anything to do with BLM and shouldn't be made to pit the purpose of it against other issues in our society. We can walk and chew gum at the same time to improve a community's quality of life simultaneously.
Statement from Mayor Curry: (https://twitter.com/bridgetteANjax/status/1318209730096078850/photo/1)
QuoteThe senseless violence that occurred in Jacksonville this weekend will not be tolerated. To the victims and their families, I extend my deepest sympathy. To the 7-year-old child shot at the Arlington Athletic Association, my family and I are praying for your full recovery. As a father and former coach of youth athletes, this senseless act of violence is particularly distressing. Since taking office six years ago, I've ensured that my annual budgets provide the resources necessary for Sheriff Williams and JSO to protect and serve our City. While we are seeing progress with the crime fighting programs and tools we've implemented, we must remain steadfast in our commitment to make Jacksonville a safer community for all citizens.
Some backlash. (https://twitter.com/SunshineEmpire/status/1318217355311370240)
Quote from: marcuscnelson on October 19, 2020, 06:19:11 PM
QuoteThe senseless violence that occurred in Jacksonville this weekend will not be tolerated. To the victims and their families, I extend my deepest sympathy. To the 7-year-old child shot at the Arlington Athletic Association, my family and I are praying for your full recovery. As a father and former coach of youth athletes, this senseless act of violence is particularly distressing. Since taking office six years ago, I've ensured that my annual budgets provide the resources necessary for Sheriff Williams and JSO to protect and serve our City. While we are seeing progress with the crime fighting programs and tools we've implemented, We must remain steadfast in our commitment to make Jacksonville a safer community for all citizens.
Fixed.
Guy takes too many queues out of the ol' Trump playbook.
Doesn't always have to be about you, or political agenda.
Just acknowledge the tragic loss, vow to keep working on our violence issues, and sign off.
Reply #6: Adam, don't you live in England now? Reply #7: To me, what the woman is pointing out, as she said 'we' were jumping on the BLM bandwagon but there's still black on black violence...the black on black violence needs to stop. The 27 year old father at the football game and his 7-year old son were not shot at by police, it was said to be a planned attack by another black man.
We're (Black people) not a tribe. She certainly doesn't speak for me and many Black people that I know. She also doesn't speak for many people involved with BLM and a number of other groups and individuals working to improve the quality of life and access to inclusive economic prosperity in communities of color across the globe. Even though some may agree with her opinion from a very limited perspective (if one is truly engaged with improving communities, they'd know people are working for improvement in a variety of areas), whatever she's pointing out is an individual opinion. I would hope that she and those who agree with this very very limited point, will be the first in line to specifically work on Black on Black violence. After all, we could use all the help we can get in making our community a better place.
Btw, I just sat in on a City of Jacksonville Community Based Crime Reduction Cross Sector Team meeting yesterday. I can personally say there are a lot of local individuals and groups working to address crime in this community, regardless of whether its Black on Black, White on White, etc. Anyone who wants to help, there's opportunity to get involved. None of this means there isn't a place for BLM though.
Quote from: sandyshoes on October 20, 2020, 10:20:55 AM
Reply #6: Adam, don't you live in England now?
I do - but what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
Reply to #6: Sorry, I misread your earlier post. Carry on.
I sense frustration from her. She seems to be saying... where are the protesters for this? There won't be any of course... it was getting so bad last year that many HS football games were moved to weekday day games. I and many others feel her frustration...
IMO, for someone to be frustrated by individuals protesting systemic discriminatory practices and policies (ex. basically why BLM exists), in that they don't treat Black on Black crime the same way, sort of suggests that the frustrated individual isn't actively doing anything themselves either. I've personally seen, been involved and lived long enough in communities of color to know that thousands are putting in the real work and effort to alleviate both of these "results" by attacking the root causes that have been major contributors to where we are today. Hell the BLM push to defund the police (dumb name, IMO...reallocating how we spend the tax money is more appropriate) is an exact example of a way to address and reduce Black on Black crime.
And everyone is frustrated with Jax's crime problem, which isn't just Black on Black. Just read about some crazy White guy stabbing his wife to death. There will be no protest for that either. We continue to pour money into JSO but all we have to show for it is a higher crime rate. It will continue rising until we do things differently. This means acknowledging how we do things now is broken (or working for those who are not frustrated).
Quote from: thelakelander on October 20, 2020, 04:46:26 PM
Just read about some crazy White guy stabbing his wife to death.
Yeah, and I bet when it was reported, no one brought up "all lives matter" protestors, did they? A white guy commits a crime, it's left at that. If a black guy commits a crime, it's somehow an indictment of every black person in existence.
Oookay... I'm done here... ???
Just to sum things up, I do understand what the woman said and sense her frustration. I'd just argue that her (and anyone) making it about who is and isn't protesting and for what the purpose for that protest is, is an example of misplaced frustration.
Hopefully, when the time comes, she and others who are frustrated will show up at the polls and vote for a mayor, council and sheriff capable of addressing Jacksonville's challenges in a different manner than their predecessors. Until there's change in how we carry ourselves and invest in the people of our community, the crime and frustrations will continue to rise.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 20, 2020, 10:41:10 AM
We're (Black people) not a tribe. She certainly doesn't speak for me and many Black people that I know. She also doesn't speak for many people involved with BLM and a number of other groups and individuals working to improve the quality of life and access to inclusive economic prosperity in communities of color across the globe. Even though some may agree with her opinion from a very limited perspective (if one is truly engaged with improving communities, they'd know people are working for improvement in a variety of areas), whatever she's pointing out is an individual opinion. I would hope that she and those who agree with this very very limited point, will be the first in line to specifically work on Black on Black violence. After all, we could use all the help we can get in making our community a better place.
So...BLM is really about improving 'the quality of life and access to inclusive economic prosperity in communities of color across the globe', as you have stated. So it has nothing at all to do with what happened to Mr. Floyd? So the fact that BoB violence continues without anyone batting an eye is and never was the issue BLM is protesting. ?? Semantics vs living, breathing souls. So it's really about 'quality of life', as you say, and not really about the life of a PERSON being taken. And you think the latter won't improve until the police are defunded. Who do you think they called to come to that ballgame and find out who killed the man and grazed his little son? Police. What should a socially conscious person do, these days, in this case, then? This is one knotted-up shoelace.
BLM was around well before the Floyd murder and yes, there are people involved in that movement that are really about improving the quality of life and access to inclusive economic prosperity in minority communities. I personally know several people across the country that have been doing this in their communities before there was a BLM, that also happen to be a part of that movement.
QuoteAnd you think the latter won't improve until the police are defunded.
Pretty sure I said what we're doing now isn't working and that we need to look at how to reallocate what we spend our tax money on, is an appropriate way to attack the issue of Black on Black crime. Crime is a result of a cause. If you want to stop or reduce crime, you'll need to invest in creating economic opportunity to reduce environments of poverty that directly led to crime. Nothing will change, if the public investments are only to respond to the results. With that said, I'm not going to get wrapped in a Fox News/CNN debate on this topic though. I'm on the ground level with this type of stuff, so I know better. My limited time is better served doing things that actually help move the community forward.
Perhaps instead of using the racial aspects of these types of attacks might be to categorize them as gang or drug related. I am just trying to find a way to have an open and frank discussion of a sensitive and perhaps taboo subject. Open and frank discussion of racial issues is part of the BLM movement is it not?
Yes. Most people are uncomfortable about racial discussions but we won't resolve them without transparent conversation. Gang or drug related would be more appropriate than a focus on Black on Black crime because the average person of any color isn't going around gunning people down in cold blood. In my opinion, to resolve this problem, it really all starts with revamping policies and finally investing in communities we've forced into generational poverty decades prior to where we are today. Poverty, lack of economic opportunity and prosperity is a direct cause that leads to the crime we'd like to see significantly reduced.
The solutions you speak of are long term. Short term solutions require arresting the person(s) involved in the the crime. Community organizers and advocates bemoan the "code of silence " and no snitching rules prevent apprehension. The police are aware that many in the community know who the criminals are but refuse to say... and the crimes continue...
The community needs to help law enforcement do their jobs...
Perhaps if we would have invested in these communities and the youth differently in 2005, the 20 somethings and teenagers shooting up the place now would have taken a different path in life.
It took over a century to get to where we are today, so no one should expect grand change overnight, no matter what we do. Nevertheless, you need to do multiple things simultaneously to improve things in the long run. Arresting people (who then get out and return to the streets with felonies and no economic prosperity potential) and not changing that environment that led to the criminal activity, leads to continued criminal activity as the generations coming up behind those arrested, follow the path of the role models before them.
Btw, I'm not actually arguing against law enforcement. The problem is much larger than that. What I'm attempting to point out is that the current system is broken. It needs to be fixed. The only way to do that is the change what has not worked. Reallocating the way we spend our tax money to resolve things that clearly aren't working is worthy of a community discussion.
Community organizers and advocates are saying that people in the community know who the shooter is and are not talking...
Quote from: BridgeTroll on October 24, 2020, 08:36:12 AM
Community organizers and advocates are saying that people in the community know who the shooter is and are not talking...
Hardly surprising. Fear has a way of making people clam up.
Quote from: Adam White on October 24, 2020, 09:35:12 AM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on October 24, 2020, 08:36:12 AM
Community organizers and advocates are saying that people in the community know who the shooter is and are not talking...
Hardly surprising. Fear has a way of making people clam up.
Is that what it is Adam?
Quote from: BridgeTroll on October 24, 2020, 11:07:32 AM
Quote from: Adam White on October 24, 2020, 09:35:12 AM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on October 24, 2020, 08:36:12 AM
Community organizers and advocates are saying that people in the community know who the shooter is and are not talking...
Hardly surprising. Fear has a way of making people clam up.
Is that what it is Adam?
Fear of the repercussions for breaking omerta combined a lack of trust in the police to protect people are certainly likely factors.
Quote from: Tacachale on October 24, 2020, 12:29:10 PM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on October 24, 2020, 11:07:32 AM
Quote from: Adam White on October 24, 2020, 09:35:12 AM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on October 24, 2020, 08:36:12 AM
Community organizers and advocates are saying that people in the community know who the shooter is and are not talking...
Hardly surprising. Fear has a way of making people clam up.
Is that what it is Adam?
Fear of the repercussions for breaking omerta combined a lack of trust in the police to protect people are certainly likely factors.
There are multiple ways to anonymously pass information to authorities...
Donald Foy (an unappreciated Jacksonville hero), and MADDADS think Jax has a code of silence issue...
http://maddadsjacksonville.com/
Quote from: Tacachale on October 24, 2020, 12:29:10 PM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on October 24, 2020, 11:07:32 AM
Quote from: Adam White on October 24, 2020, 09:35:12 AM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on October 24, 2020, 08:36:12 AM
Community organizers and advocates are saying that people in the community know who the shooter is and are not talking...
Hardly surprising. Fear has a way of making people clam up.
Is that what it is Adam?
Fear of the repercussions for breaking omerta combined a lack of trust in the police to protect people are certainly likely factors.
Not dissimilar to the dilemma facing many in Catholic/nationalist neighbourhoods in Northern Ireland.
I don't know why anyone would think it's any different in black communities than it is in white communities. Well, I can think of a reason why, but...
If people held Duval County Schools to the 1/10th of standard they hold JSO, violence in JAX would be reduced by half.
Quote from: bl8jaxnative on October 24, 2020, 02:43:35 PM
If people held Duval County Schools to the 1/10th of standard they hold JSO, violence in JAX would be reduced by half.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VNFi1DLGHE
Quote from: Adam White on October 24, 2020, 02:22:46 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on October 24, 2020, 12:29:10 PM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on October 24, 2020, 11:07:32 AM
Quote from: Adam White on October 24, 2020, 09:35:12 AM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on October 24, 2020, 08:36:12 AM
Community organizers and advocates are saying that people in the community know who the shooter is and are not talking...
Hardly surprising. Fear has a way of making people clam up.
Is that what it is Adam?
Fear of the repercussions for breaking omerta combined a lack of trust in the police to protect people are certainly likely factors.
Not dissimilar to the dilemma facing many in Catholic/nationalist neighbourhoods in Northern Ireland.
I don't know why anyone would think it's any different in black communities than it is in white communities. Well, I can think of a reason why, but...
http://maddadsjacksonville.com/
Quote from: BridgeTroll on October 24, 2020, 03:25:22 PM
Quote from: Adam White on October 24, 2020, 02:22:46 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on October 24, 2020, 12:29:10 PM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on October 24, 2020, 11:07:32 AM
Quote from: Adam White on October 24, 2020, 09:35:12 AM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on October 24, 2020, 08:36:12 AM
Community organizers and advocates are saying that people in the community know who the shooter is and are not talking...
Hardly surprising. Fear has a way of making people clam up.
Is that what it is Adam?
Fear of the repercussions for breaking omerta combined a lack of trust in the police to protect people are certainly likely factors.
Not dissimilar to the dilemma facing many in Catholic/nationalist neighbourhoods in Northern Ireland.
I don't know why anyone would think it's any different in black communities than it is in white communities. Well, I can think of a reason why, but...
http://maddadsjacksonville.com/
(https://media.giphy.com/media/a3zqvrH40Cdhu/giphy.gif)
Lol... cancel culture? Go to the website and give me some open and honest feedback... supposedly that is what we are supposed to be doing. Not you?
Quote from: BridgeTroll on October 24, 2020, 03:58:57 PM
Lol... cancel culture? Go to the website and give me some open and honest feedback... supposedly that is what we are supposed to be doing. Not you?
Huh? I have no idea what you mean about "cancel culture".
Anyway, your link has nothing to do with what I posted.
I said that fear works as a de-motivator and keeps people from blabbing. I then responded to Tachacale's post and said that it was not unlike the situation in Northern Ireland. And I questioned why people seem to think black people are somehow different in this respect than white people.
Your link has nothing to do with that. I am NOT questioning whether or not there is an issue with drugs, violence and social disorder. I am a) offering a possible explanation for why people *might* possibly know who the shooter is, yet aren't speaking up and b) questioning why *some* people seem to always assume the worst when it comes to black people.
And while we're at it, it looks like Foy agrees with Tachacale:
"One of our primary goals is to get them to break the code of silence," says Donald Foy, the local MAD DADS president. Part of it is fear of retaliation — "snitches gets stitches," as the saying goes. But there's also something deeper, an ingrained distrust of the JSO that goes back decades, to a time when the cops were "coming in [to black neighborhoods] and terrorizing the community," Jordan says. "Now the community feels like they're the enemy. If you talk to the police, you snitching."
http://folioweekly.com/Breaking-the-Code-of-Silence,8607
Ah... actual dialogue!!! Good job Adam! I'm proud of you...
Quote from: BridgeTroll on October 24, 2020, 04:34:09 PM
Ah... actual dialogue!!! Good job Adam! I'm proud of you...
(https://media.giphy.com/media/PYEGoZXABBMuk/giphy.mp4)
I assure you Mr Foy does not assume the worst regarding black people. Mr Foy understands the code of silence is detrimental to ALL communities. He and his organization canvas neighborhoods encouraging people to break the code and to empower the citizens... efforts such as his should be encouraged and supported... pretending it isn't a problem is dangerous for everyone...
I appreciate your response and would like others to join the conversation... :)
Quote from: BridgeTroll on October 24, 2020, 07:09:32 PM
I assure you Mr Foy does not assume the worst regarding black people. Mr Foy understands the code of silence is detrimental to ALL communities. He and his organization canvas neighborhoods encouraging people to break the code and to empower the citizens... efforts such as his should be encouraged and supported... pretending it isn't a problem is dangerous for everyone...
I appreciate your response and would like others to join the conversation... :)
I certainly don't think Foy thinks the worst of black people at all. The point I was trying to make (and may have failed) was that there are myriad reasons why people might clam up in circumstances such as this - and fear is a big one. I think Tachacale hit the nail on the head about distrust of the police, too. And I was surprised to see that Foy essentially articulated the same thing Tachacale said (I was unaware of Foy prior to this discussion).
There are many who seem to hold the 'black community' (I put that in quotes because it's probably fallacious to treat all black people as if they are some homogenous group) to a different standard than the 'white community' (same deal with the quotes). And that kind of goes back to some of the original comments on this thread - the ones I responded to (not yours, BT).
Whether or not there are problems with drugs or violence or social disorder in the 'black community' has nothing to do with BLM. BLM is a necessary response to police treatment of black people and systemic racism. I didn't interpret the woman's comments as being an indictment of BLM.
In any event, I hope the child recovers. It's sad he's lost his father. I hope the 'code of silence' is broken soon (assuming people actually know something) and the shooter is brought to justice.
My persistence with this attempt at discussion is to try and address the woman's distress and anguish regarding the shooting and the epidemic of shootings here in Jacksonville. My focus is on the gangs and drug dealers that are the cause. Lakelanders suggestions for remediation are spot on but even if adopted immediately would take years to see results. These communities need help now.
I also do not think the woman was critical of BLM but simply asking where is the outrage for THESE murders... and as is the norm... we simply move on and wait for the next one...
Quote from: BridgeTroll on October 25, 2020, 08:06:37 AM
My persistence with this attempt at discussion is to try and address the woman's distress and anguish regarding the shooting and the epidemic of shootings here in Jacksonville. My focus is on the gangs and drug dealers that are the cause. Lakelanders suggestions for remediation are spot on but even if adopted immediately would take years to see results. These communities need help now.
I also do not think the woman was critical of BLM but simply asking where is the outrage for THESE murders... and as is the norm... we simply move on and wait for the next one...
Absolutely. I think Lakelander's suggestions make so much sense and I agree that systemic change won't happen overnight. But I think we're being distracted here, as two separate issues have been conflated. One being this murder and the other being BLM. As Lakelander pointed out initially (in response to some of the earlier posts), this has nothing to do with BLM.
And as I was saying, there is no reason why people in the community can't work to address any of the different issues they are facing separate from the BLM movement. BLM has one general focus and the fact that 'black on black crime' still exists is hardly an indictment of BLM.
The woman in the video was obviously very upset and I understand her point (I think) - broadly speaking, we've got to care about our communities and do something for ourselves. And that may be the case. But some who watched that video ended up using her comments as a stick to beat BLM with, which I think was pretty wrong-headed.
What I will say is things like violence, murder, etc plague our society and no workable solution can be imposed from above. People need to work together to fix these problems.
And I will end on this - if there is a 'code of silence' and it results, at least in part, from distrust of the police, why do we always seem to only look at that as a problem with those who distrust the police? Why are we not asking why that distrust exists? There are two sides to the coin.
Quote from: BridgeTroll on October 25, 2020, 08:06:37 AM
My persistence with this attempt at discussion is to try and address the woman's distress and anguish regarding the shooting and the epidemic of shootings here in Jacksonville. My focus is on the gangs and drug dealers that are the cause. Lakelanders suggestions for remediation are spot on but even if adopted immediately would take years to see results. These communities need help now.
I agree that our disenfranchised communities needed help not only now, but yesteryear as well. Because we've refused to invest in them for generations to get to where we are today, I'm of the opinion that there is no quick fix. We can throw all the people in jail we want and we have. Yet crime still and will continue to spiral out of control because we've done nothing to begin to change the pattern of generational poverty with no economic hope for the generation following those we want to lock up now. So there's always someone next in line to commit the next offense. First we have to accept that there are no quick fixes. There may be things to put a band aid on the problem in the short term but true change will take time to happen and dedicated long term investment in these communities to make change sustainable.
I don't know Lake... it seems pretty defeatist to me... people can take charge of their neighborhood... they can not tolerate criminals. They can work with police instead of against them. There are success stories out there... simply telling these folks "too bad help might be coming in ten years "... doesn't work for me and I suspect it won't work for them either...
If I still knew shorthand, I would transcribe, word for word, the female witness's statement for you. This witness, who I believe was black, as she asked "when are we going to [stop all the violence and] take care of our own lives" may need someone to educate her on the proper use of BLM, if you listen to her questions. She, not I, made the statements wondering why they were not doing something about all this violence. My take is that perhaps Black LIVES Matter is not the proper title for a group more concerned with economic prosperity - again, semantics. Sounds more like it should be Black Economic Opportunities Matter, to get right at the crux of it all. I agree , Bridgetroll, that there is a lot of discussion that needs to take place. Transparency is the key and dancing around the issues gingerly is ineffective. I began this thread because it was a good opportunity to get this woman heard, and maybe get people to discuss it and see where it needs addressing. And for one person who commented they did not want this to deteriorate all the way down to a black and white issue, it's quite obvious that by its very name, Black Lives Matter, it is a black and white issue.
This is NOT a black/white, us/them issue. This is a criminal gang and drug dealer issue. By focusing on race you miss the real issues... there is a criminal element taking advantage of communities and it needs to stop...
Quote from: BridgeTroll on October 25, 2020, 05:07:55 PM
I don't know Lake... it seems pretty defeatist to me... people can take charge of their neighborhood... they can not tolerate criminals. They can work with police instead of against them.
I'm just sharing an opinion from the experience of growing up in a neighborhood that people here would describe as the "hood". Every bit as challenging to what Jax's poverty stricken communities have and continue to face. There are no quick fixes, IMO. I say it from a perspective that if there were, we wouldn't be having people gunned down at kids football games in broad daylight by now. This isn't the first time this has happened in Jax (I'm pretty sure this happened in Grand Park a couple of years ago). The biggest common denominator in this communities is extreme poverty and a complete lack of support of consistent investment in the people who live in them.
People do take charge of their neighborhoods, to the best of their abilities and capacity. I said it earlier, and I'll say it again, that there are a lot of people putting in the work to make their neighborhoods a better place in this city. I know this for a fact because I've been on the front line hearing from them and included in some ongoing meetings to address various problems in our urban core. Nevertheless, to make a real dent, they're going to have to backed up by the city for longer than a single mayor's term. In addition, they'll need to be backed in a manner to where our public policies don't continue to act in a counterproductive way that further exasperates the problems.
QuoteThere are success stories out there... simply telling these folks "too bad help might be coming in ten years "... doesn't work for me and I suspect it won't work for them either...
This is a simplistic interpretation of what I stated. No one said tell folks "too bad help might be coming in ten years". I said we have to invest in our communities now (meaning help is coming now). In the same manner, we should not be lying to people and selling them on false hope now. That's one of the long standing problems that has led to a deep historical mistrust between communities, the police and city government. We need to be transparent and realistic, moreso than anything else.
With that said, what are some success stories out there of crime going away overnight? Perhaps these success stories should be highlighted locally to assist us in making Jax a safer community?
Clearly you are a shining example of a success from "the hood"... I doubt you would consider yourself special in any respect... why were you and many others successful and others not and remain immersed in poverty and crime...
Quote from: BridgeTroll on October 25, 2020, 06:44:06 PM
Clearly you are a shining example of a success from "the hood"... I doubt you would consider yourself special in any respect... why were you and many others successful and others not and remain immersed in poverty and crime...
I was lucky, so I'd consider myself special from that perspective. I'm the only one of my siblings to not be arrested as a teenager or early 20 something. Many of my cousins and childhood friends have not been as lucky as well. So I'd say that I'm an exception to the rule and that's a problem in and of itself. As late as my granddad's generation, Davis males only went to the 3rd grade and then they had to go work in the fields. I had an opportunity to leave and go to a HBCU 250 miles away from home and I took it. If I would have never left the neighborhood that I grew up in at the age of 19, I would not be where I am today.
For me going to a HBCU was really transformational in a manner that I got an experience that most young Black men don't get. Instead of being in a town where every Black male under the age of 30 was a potential suspect for most crimes and where the neighborhood role model was the drug dealer, I was in an environment where people of my color were of the majority and clustered together for a common cause....getting a college degree. A lot of traditional stereotypes were broken during my college years. For me, that has led to a life dedicated to giving back to helping individuals have access to opportunities that allow them to economically prosper against the odds they have been dealt with.
I also thank my parents for being open and honest about race and growing up as a Black male. I was given the talk at an early age about life not being fair and that just because of the color of my skin, I was going to have to accept that I would have to work as twice as hard as the average person to succeed. Anyway, I've been racially profiled and pulled over by the police, have had people follow me around the store to make sure I'm not going to steal something and have seen people clutch their belongings or lock their car doors as I pass on the sidewalk. It's degrading but that's the world we live in and it is, what it is. You can let it take you down, strive to find your place within it or reject the status quo and fight to change it.
Over the years, there have been multiple occasions where Black males who were my age or a few years younger growing up, have come up to me and told me that I was their role model because I made it out. I've had others ask me to speak and advise their kids on college and having a STEM degree because I'm one of the few real life Black male examples they know. On one hand, I'm honored but on the other hand, this is a problem and things should not be that way.
Overall, my own personal life experience further tilts me to view this from the perspective of believing that the environment that one lives in has a direct impact on their outcome in life. However, everyone can't leave and leaving doesn't resolve the neighborhood problem. Case in point, I left my childhood neighborhood for good in 1996 and the only thing that has been built in it since I've left is a Family Dollars. There weren't jobs for the residents then and there aren't many there now. As time has gone on, the faces on the corner change but the problem has not. Some people die, some get put away in jail or prison for a long time, but there's always a younger generation coming up right behind them to take their place.
Jacksonville, like most cities with neighborhoods they've done everything to keep back, has a neighborhood problem built on the back of decades of systemic discrimination. The crime and drug situation is a direct result of an environment where generational poverty and lack of access to economic prosperity are significant contributors that lead young men to a certain outcome in life. IMO, we can't have a serious conversation on resolving crime without tackling the issues that create the environment of poverty and no hope.
Quote from: sandyshoes on October 25, 2020, 05:33:37 PM
If I still knew shorthand, I would transcribe, word for word, the female witness's statement for you. This witness, who I believe was black, as she asked "when are we going to [stop all the violence and] take care of our own lives" may need someone to educate her on the proper use of BLM, if you listen to her questions. She, not I, made the statements wondering why they were not doing something about all this violence. My take is that perhaps Black LIVES Matter is not the proper title for a group more concerned with economic prosperity - again, semantics. Sounds more like it should be Black Economic Opportunities Matter, to get right at the crux of it all. I agree , Bridgetroll, that there is a lot of discussion that needs to take place. Transparency is the key and dancing around the issues gingerly is ineffective. I began this thread because it was a good opportunity to get this woman heard, and maybe get people to discuss it and see where it needs addressing. And for one person who commented they did not want this to deteriorate all the way down to a black and white issue, it's quite obvious that by its very name, Black Lives Matter, it is a black and white issue.
I still fail to see how BLM, what that group stands for, and debating if they should change their name, has anything to do with what took place in Arlington. Black lives do matter. The quicker we can treat, judge and enforce everyone from an equal footing, the quicker that name won't be needed.
Wow... very powerful. Thank you. I sincerely appreciate your openness. It is what is needed when these conversations are being had. I cannot put myself in your shoes and I doubt many of our contributors can...
How did you get the apparently rare opportunity to attend HBCU?
I started off at community college hoping to major in architecture. After a semester I realized that I had been advised incorrectly by a college advisor and that I'd have to transfer from Polk to Hillsborough Community College to get an AA to then transfer to state university. At that point, there were three schools in the state offering a degree in architecture. Florida (I had no desire to go to the school or Gainesville), UM (couldn't afford it), and FAMU (I had a cousin and a few people I knew from back home there...and it was a HBCU which I liked). I was also familiar with FAMU and Tallahassee because my older brother was there for a year before dropping out and we used to go to the Florida Classic every year when it was in Tampa. It didn't make sense to commute to HCC (I lived 40 minutes east of their closest campus) in hopes of transferring to FAMU, so I applied and was accepted into FAMU and was able to transfer my Winn-Dixie job to a location near FSU to help afford the tuition.
You had to take architecture course all five or six years, depending in you were after a Bachelors or Masters. So I ended up wasting a year in community college but that experience made me appreciate the change in environment more and my older brother's failure there made me more dedicated to succeed, in order to keep a promise to my parents and not end up back home. Luckily for him, later on he was able to go back to school in South Florida and finally get a degree of his own.
Violence causes far more poverty than poverty causes violence.
Hard to prove that since history proves the poverty came before the violence in Jax's most economically depressed neighborhoods.
Quote from: bl8jaxnative on October 27, 2020, 04:08:53 PM
Violence causes far more poverty than poverty causes violence.
I'd love to see your sources.
For a taste, Google --> History of Post Colonial Africa
Wish this forum supported the facepalm emoji...
It's useful when people are set in their ways and unopen to reality, eh?
If poverty causes violence, why is the recent rate of violent crime on Pine Ride below US average? Pine Ridge's poverty rate is something like 60-80% ( not shitting ya, it's 3rd world level poverty ).
LOL, what and where is Pine Ridge? Just wondering about the environment, density, population, etc. in comparison to urban issues. You're not providing enough information for others to consider your position.
repeat and rinse for Appalachia. Some of the poorest counties there have almost no violent crime, despite having median household incomes that are sometimes lower than what you could make from cash payments from programs under the welfare umbrella.
...... And now you're saying "but, but, if violence causes the poverty......" which
a) rural Appalachia is poor because of it's geography ( just like the intermountain west )
b) 99% of impovershied people NEVER commit a violent crime. When 99% with an attribute don't do something, the attribute ain't relevant to the outcome.
or let's put it another way locally ---> of the Bernard Carsons and Kollin Foster's in Jacksonville, any of the fathers getting murdered, can y'll name any of them where their children are not living in poverty today? What about Jake Hall's kids?
What is the mechanism where poverty takes control of a human's brain and __causes__ them to pull the trigger?
There isn't one. The virus isn't poverty, that's just an outcome, a symptom. Violence is the virus.
What do some guy scraping by w/ 2 part time jobs does when he's beaten and robbed? He can't go into work. He doesn't have long term disability. His employer, not knowing when he'll be back let's him go. He's got nothing.
What happens when what little you have is gone? There's no insurance. You're back to square one, scraping by collecting scraps for months or years just to get back to where you were before the event. Why bother? Why not give up? Or after seeing it happen to someone else why even try?
Apples and oranges. You totally missed my comments about the environment one lives in and the role that plays into this topic. We have more people here than cows. Are you aware of any similar scaled urban areas in this country where people unrelated to each other actually live in close proximity?
Quote from: bl8jaxnative on October 28, 2020, 11:03:45 AM
For a taste, Google --> History of Post Colonial Africa
Lol, an entire continent?! Also, why "post" vs "pre" colonial? Are you saying colonizing a population had a negative impact in some sort of way?
Quote from: bl8jaxnative on October 28, 2020, 11:03:45 AM
For a taste, Google --> History of Post Colonial Africa
Besides the fact that I don't think anyone contended that "poverty causes violence" (you seem to have made that bit up), you've contended that violence causes poverty more than poverty causes violence.
So, from where I'm sat, you need to provide a link that shows the poverty in post-colonial Africa (since you mentioned it) is caused by violence as well as showing that poverty hasn't played a role much of the violence that you doubtless can evidence.
But as I said, I don't think anyone has made as reductive a statement as "poverty causes violence". I think poverty can be a cause of violence - but poverty is but one symptom of the problem and violent crime (or crime in general) is one of the inevitable results of that problem.
Quote from: Tacachale on October 28, 2020, 11:32:34 AM
Wish this forum supported the facepalm emoji...
I usually use... :o or ::) or :-X
:)
Quote from: bl8jaxnative on October 28, 2020, 11:39:20 AM
It's useful when people are set in their ways and unopen to reality, eh?
If poverty causes violence, why is the recent rate of violent crime on Pine Ride below US average? Pine Ridge's poverty rate is something like 60-80% ( not shitting ya, it's 3rd world level poverty ).
C'mon dude... provide links. Show us what you found. When we can read the same link you found then the facts can be debated... otherwise it is just hearsay...
Charleston is one of the larger cities Appalachia. It also appears to have it struggles with crime. Wheeling is also is on the list. Seems that that the cities of Appalachia face very similar challenges to Jacksonville and other communities across the country.
QuoteCharleston makes list of top 100 dangerous cities in U.S.
The city of Charleston is getting national attention but for all the wrong reasons. The city recently made the list for Top 100 Dangerous Places to Live in the U.S.
Charleston ranks 19th, above cities like Philadelphia and Washington D.C. but below Baltimore and Detriot.
The list comes from Neighborhood Scouts, a website that helps potential buyers of real estate gain insight on crime.
The data comes from the 2016 calendar year and according to the website, comes directly from the crime information police departments are required to send the FBI annually. The FBI releases their annual report at the end of the following calendar year, so the data on the website was released a few months ago before the site compiled their list.
"You hate to hear that you're in the top 20 per capita as far as most dangerous cities go, but the victims of violent crime are typically involved in criminal activity," Charleston Police Chief Steve Cooper tells WSAZ.
Last year, Charleston ranked 40th on the list that is based primarily on violent crimes like homicide, rape, armed robbery and assault.
The website data includes neighboring cities in the total for Charleston. For example, Cross Lanes and Rand are included, because they have Charleston addresses.
Chief Cooper says most of the city's crime problems are tied to the drug epidemic, a cycle that is difficult to break.
https://www.wsaz.com/content/news/Charleston-makes-list-of-top-100-dangerous-cities-in-US-476598703.html
Quote from: thelakelander on October 28, 2020, 06:22:16 PM
Charleston is one of the larger cities Appalachia. It also appears to have it struggles with crime. Wheeling is also is on the list. Seems that that the cities of Appalachia face very similar challenges to Jacksonville and other communities across the country.
QuoteCharleston makes list of top 100 dangerous cities in U.S.
The city of Charleston is getting national attention but for all the wrong reasons. The city recently made the list for Top 100 Dangerous Places to Live in the U.S.
Charleston ranks 19th, above cities like Philadelphia and Washington D.C. but below Baltimore and Detriot.
The list comes from Neighborhood Scouts, a website that helps potential buyers of real estate gain insight on crime.
The data comes from the 2016 calendar year and according to the website, comes directly from the crime information police departments are required to send the FBI annually. The FBI releases their annual report at the end of the following calendar year, so the data on the website was released a few months ago before the site compiled their list.
"You hate to hear that you're in the top 20 per capita as far as most dangerous cities go, but the victims of violent crime are typically involved in criminal activity," Charleston Police Chief Steve Cooper tells WSAZ.
Last year, Charleston ranked 40th on the list that is based primarily on violent crimes like homicide, rape, armed robbery and assault.
The website data includes neighboring cities in the total for Charleston. For example, Cross Lanes and Rand are included, because they have Charleston addresses.
Chief Cooper says most of the city's crime problems are tied to the drug epidemic, a cycle that is difficult to break.
https://www.wsaz.com/content/news/Charleston-makes-list-of-top-100-dangerous-cities-in-US-476598703.html
Took me a second, then realised you weren't talking about
the Charleston!