http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1081107/Solomons-real-3-000-years-archaeologists-uncover-fabled-site-desert.html
QuoteSolomon's real mine? 3,000 years on, archaeologists uncover fabled site in desert
By David Derbyshire
In a discovery straight out of an Indiana Jones movie, archaeologists believe they have uncovered one of the lost mines of King Solomon.
The vast copper mine lies in an arid valley in modern-day Jordan and was created in the 10th century BC - around the time Solomon is believed to have ruled over the ancient Hebrews.
The mines are enormous and would have generated a huge income for the king, who is famed for bringing extraordinary wealth and stability to the newly-united kingdom
of Israel and Judah.
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/10/28/article-1081107-0243A658000005DC-284_468x297.jpg)
Ancient: The outline of a large square fortress and more than 100 smaller buildings at Khirbat en-Nahas. The black slag indicates large-scale copper production occurred here
The announcement will today reopen the debate about how much of the Old Testament is myth and how much is history.
According to the Bible, Solomon was the third king of Israel. The son of King David, he was renowned for his wisdom, the size of his harem and the splendour of his kingdom.
During his reign, he is said to have accumulated a huge fortune from mining and trading, some of which was spent on building the grand temple and opulent palace of Jerusalem.
Archaeologists and treasure-hunters have searched for the mines for more than a century since the best-selling Victorian novel, King Solomon's Mines by H Rider Haggard, claimed they could hold a treasure of gold and diamonds.
But now, it seems the real version could have been closer to home, supplying the king with copper.
Powerful: King Solomon supervises the building of a temple - archaeologists believe they have uncovered one of his lost mines
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/10/27/article-1081107-02443E7F000005DC-859_468x339.jpg)
Powerful: King Solomon supervises the building of a temple - archaeologists believe they have uncovered one of his lost mines
The ancient mine was found in a desolate region south of the Dead Sea in southern Jordan in an area called Khirbat en-Nahas, which means 'ruins of copper' in Arabic.
The region was known in the Old Testament as the Kingdom of Edom. By Solomon's time, it had become a vassal state, paying tribute to Jerusalem.
Digs at the site in the 1970s and 1980s suggested metalworking began there in the 7th century, long after the time of Solomon.
But Dr Thomas Levy, of the University of California, San Diego, and Mohammed Najjar, of Jordan's Friends of Archaeology, have dated it to the 10th century BC.
Dr Levy said: 'We have evidence that complex societies were indeed active in the 10th and 9th centuries BC and that brings us back to the debate about the historicity of the Bible narratives related to this period.
'We can't believe everything ancient writings tell us. But this research represents a confluence between the archaeological and scientific data and the Bible.'
The ancient site contains around 100 buildings, including a fortress, in the middle of 24 acres of land covered in black slag. The mine works are covered with trials and holes, and are big enough to be seen on Google Earth's satellite images.
The team also found ancient Egyptian artifacts at the site including a scarab and amulet from the 10th century BC.
When Solomon died, his kingdom was thrown into chaos and the Pharaoh Sheshonq is believed to have attempted to crush economic activity.
The findings are reported in today's issue of Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/10/27/article-1081107-02443DC5000005DC-852_468x438.jpg)
That is wild. Is the date the only thing tying it to Solomon?
Quote from: JeffreyS on October 28, 2008, 10:50:11 AM
That is wild. Is the date the only thing tying it to Solomon?
it appears the region too...
QuoteThe ancient mine was found in a desolate region south of the Dead Sea in southern Jordan in an area called Khirbat en-Nahas, which means 'ruins of copper' in Arabic.
The region was known in the Old Testament as the Kingdom of Edom. By Solomon's time, it had become a vassal state, paying tribute to Jerusalem.
pretty amazing and exciting.
I am sure Jews of the world knew about it all along,thats were they get all that money and now that it run out of it they decided to let archeologiest discover it.
Wow... just freeking wow... :D ::) :D ::)
Quote from: Bostech on October 29, 2008, 02:47:49 AM
I am sure Jews of the world knew about it all along,thats were they get all that money and now that it run out of it they decided to let archeologiest discover it.
its the jewwwwwwwsssssssss :o
QuoteQuoteQuote from: Bostech on Today at 02:47:49 AM
I am sure Jews of the world knew about it all along,thats were they get all that money and now that it run out of it they decided to let archeologiest discover it.
its the jewwwwwwwsssssssss
Yeah Right! ...and these "Jews" knew where there were perhaps millions of dollars in did nothing for the sake of Israel? Yeah Right! Like I "Know" where the Confederate Treasury Gold is dumped and I'll refuse to go there and borrow a bit, because I'm a dedicated Southron. I THINK NOT! Cha Ching!OCKLAWAHA
DEO VINDICE!
Can't wait for some video.
Quote from: stephendare on October 29, 2008, 09:51:17 AM
Quote from: Bostech on October 29, 2008, 02:47:49 AM
I am sure Jews of the world knew about it all along,thats were they get all that money and now that it run out of it they decided to let archeologiest discover it.
dude this is not acceptable.
While Bosnia may be antisemitic, this forum and boards are not man.
Totally keep the 'jew' talk to yourself, please, no matter what kind of example Driven and River might have set for you in the political forum with the recent Leiberman thread, this is against our rules on the forum.
Its also not a funny joke.
Love ya bos, but its time to learn new ways.
Come on Stephan lighten up, the best way to counter this type of crap is with mockery, they usually can't stand being made fun of.
Quote from: stephendare on October 29, 2008, 09:51:17 AM
Quote from: Bostech on October 29, 2008, 02:47:49 AM
I am sure Jews of the world knew about it all along,thats were they get all that money and now that it run out of it they decided to let archeologiest discover it.
dude this is not acceptable.While Bosnia may be antisemitic, this forum and boards are not man.Totally keep the 'jew' talk to yourself, please, no matter what kind of example Driven and River might have set for you in the political forum with the recent Leiberman thread, this is against our rules on the forum.Its also not a funny joke.Love ya bos, but its time to learn new ways.
actually stephen, i really didn't comment on Bos's comments because for most of us, they are kind of par for the course...what we have come to expect from those out there on the FAR left (not the mainstream dems, mind you). i was actually quite surprised to see you speak out against his comments.
and - just so everyone is not misled - here is the thread that you referenced, that I posted...
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,3521.msg49665.html#msg49665
the title of that thread is "'Jew' Lieberman speaks in Beauclerc area of Jax".
if you read that article that I linked to, you would know why the phrase "Jew Lieberman" was used. I copied it from the author's blog (the author is a leftist also)...
where the left-wing blogger used that phrase exactly. i know you may not know this b/c i find many times you aren't reading the threads anyone posts, you seem to just quickly reply to them without reading. so you see - that was not MY PHRASE, but one of your comrade's.
so...again, this is why i really had no comment on Bos's anti-semitism. seemed perfectly placed along with his and your other idealogies.
Off topic: The Left is clearly the new home for anti-Semitism in America as well as Europe. Unfortunately, our Jewish friends continue to vote for the Democrats in large numbers and against their best interests. Hopefully this wil begin to change on Tuesday. Lieberman's endorsement helps also.
Back on topic: The discovery of the mines is amazing. I believe the Bible to be an accurate source of historical (and other) information and this find confirms it yet again.
RSG, you right-wing wacko!!! ;) yeah, i do too. this is a particularly strong piece of evidence for the usage of the Bible as a historical document because - as the story mentions - the ONLY place Solomon is mentioned in history is - IN THE BIBLE.
and VOILA - here we are finding (again) the Bible to be backed up by archaeology. surprise!
Quote from: stephendare on October 29, 2008, 11:02:14 AM
Bos is an intelligent and interesting new citizen from Bosnia.
lol!! i love how you defend anti-semitism. you color it so brightly!!
(only when it's coming from the left though, correct? wink-wink)
Quote from: stephendare on October 29, 2008, 11:04:18 AM
Quote from: RiversideGator on October 29, 2008, 10:59:55 AM
Off topic: The Left is clearly the new home for anti-Semitism in America as well as Europe. Unfortunately, our Jewish friends continue to vote for the Democrats in large numbers and against their best interests. Hopefully this wil begin to change on Tuesday. Lieberman's endorsement helps also.
Back on topic: The discovery of the mines is amazing. I believe the Bible to be an accurate source of historical (and other) information and this find confirms it yet again.
Your comments about your imaginary New Left are a direct lie.
As a true "conservative", this new information should not trouble you. Curious overreaction by Stephen...
in related news (anti-semitism from the left) - it appears the LA Times continues to withhold video that would be very damaging to the Obama campaign...where Obama aligns himself very closely to a very well-known Palestinian activist...
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-video29-2008oct29,0,5458024.story
here is more info on the Solomon Mines (from natl geographic)...
Quote
Copper mines in southern Jordan were active centuries earlier than previously believed, according to a new study that suggests the area was producing the metal at the same time the biblical figure of King Solomon is said to have built Jerusalem's first Jewish temple.
Industrial-scale metal production was occurring at a site in Jordan in the tenth century B.C., according to the study's carbon dating of ancient industrial mining debris and analysis of the settlement's layout.
Previous studies had concluded no copper production occurred in the area before the seventh century B.C.
"We're conclusively showing that the Iron Age chronology [of this region] has to be pushed back another 300 years," said lead author Thomas Levy, an anthropologist at the University of California, San Diego.
Biblical References
The shift in estimated Iron Age dates means the Jordan copper mine would have been in operation during the reigns of Kings David and Solomonâ€"who are referred to in the Old Testament (the Hebrew Bible) but have not been verified as actual historical figures.
"Now we have to readdress many of the questions about the relationship between the biblical text about this region in those centuries and the archeological record," Levy said.
(Levy's research was funded in part by the National Geographic Society's Committee for Research and Exploration. National Geographic owns National Geographic News.)
The study appears in the current issue of the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
According to the Bible, God chose King Solomon to build Jerusalem's first temple.
(Related: "Solomon's Temple Artifacts Found by Muslim Workers" [October 23, 2007].)
Hundreds of tons of copper were given to the project, as well as smaller amounts of gold and silver, the Bible says. Some English versions of the Old Testament use the word bronze instead of copper as a result of a mistranslation, Levy said.
If the biblical account is historical, King Solomon and his father King David would have had to rule Israel during the tenth century B.C., scholars agree.
Solomon's Temple and other projects would have required great quantities of metal.
"If he built the temple during the tenth century B.C., heâ€"according to the Bibleâ€"had to bring a lot of copper to Jerusalem, and the copper had to come from somewhere," said Amihai Mazar, an archaeologist at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, who was not involved with the study.
If the Bible's accounts of David and Solomon are rooted in reality, it's reasonable to figure the copper came from the closest known sourceâ€"the contemporaneous site excavated by Levy and Jordanian archaeologist Mohammad Najjar in the area the Bible calls Edom.
Historical Extremes
Seventy years ago American archaeologist Nelson Glueck declared he'd found "King Solomon's mines" around the area Levy's team is excavating.
"He was in the 'Golden Age' of biblical archaeology between the World Wars," Levy said of Glueck.
"He literally mapped everything that he saw archaeologically to the biblical narrative."
By the mid- to late-20th century, the tide had turned: Many academics were finding no verifiable connection between the Old Testament and actual history from the 12th through 9th centuries B.C.
Some believe that any useful historical accuracy in the holy book was lost during a period of revisions that is believed to have occurred between the seventh and fourth centuries B.C.
Research beginning in the 1970s determined Glueck's mine site became active only in the 7th century BCâ€"hundreds of years after David and Solomon would have lived.
To this day, little archaeological evidence has been found to confirm the reigns of either King David or King Solomon.
"To what extent the Bible really recalls ancient historical reality from the tenth century is hard to say," said the Hebrew University's Mazar, who has been to the site but was not involved with the study.
Striking a Balance
Levy believes his study is a model for archaeologists working in areas described in ancient, sacred texts.
He avoided over-reliance on the biblical chronology, but also did not reject it.
His team created sophisticated, three-dimensional digital recording methods to map the layout of the site and the location of all the artifacts to determine ancient settlement patterns. Organic remains were radiocarbon dated at a lab in the U.K.
According to Mazar, the science is solid.
Levy argues that archaeologists should consider wide-ranging sources of information when examining a site from historical texts and ecological information to cultural materials, anthropology, and sacred texts.
"I think that with archaeology, we need to use every possible source of data at our disposal," he said.
"If you were interested in ancient India, you'd want to have an objective look at the Mahabharata," he said, referring to the set of sanskrit epics thought to date back to the eighth century B.C. And Icelandic archaeologists might consider the Sagas of Iceland, written in the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries A.D.
"We try to create an objective historical archaeology," Levy said.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/10/081028-king-solomon-copper-mine-missions.html
Quote from: stephendare on October 29, 2008, 11:08:26 AM
River, will you please stop hijacking this thread to attack other posters and push your offtopic political discussion?
Please stop calling others liars.
Quote from: stephendare on October 29, 2008, 09:51:17 AM
Quote from: Bostech on October 29, 2008, 02:47:49 AM
I am sure Jews of the world knew about it all along,thats were they get all that money and now that it run out of it they decided to let archeologiest discover it.
dude this is not acceptable.
While Bosnia may be antisemitic, this forum and boards are not man.
Totally keep the 'jew' talk to yourself, please, no matter what kind of example Driven and River might have set for you in the political forum with the recent Leiberman thread, this is against our rules on the forum.
Its also not a funny joke.
Love ya bos, but its time to learn new ways.
No more jokes for you people.
Can't make jewish joke,everyone gets upset about it.
By the way Bosnia is not antisemitic at all ,actualy opposite is true.
Bosnia is only country in Europe where Jews lived freely for most part of past 600 years.
Too bad other "democratic" countries didn't follow that example.
Anyway no more jewish jokes.
Quote from: Driven1 on October 29, 2008, 11:08:49 AM
in related news (anti-semitism from the left) - it appears the LA Times continues to withhold video that would be very damaging to the Obama campaign...where Obama aligns himself very closely to a very well-known Palestinian activist...
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-video29-2008oct29,0,5458024.story
... but McCain gave him MONEY!! Almost $500K to be exact. So your point would be?
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/10/the-khalidi-gam.html
Next
who cares about this?
King Solomon's coppermine? Is there still copper there? You literally cannot even bring up an archaeological site without some fool starting an argument about religion. There are some real headcases on this site.
Welcome to the club... :)
Quote from: nomoremyths on November 02, 2008, 01:12:04 AM
who cares about this?
King Solomon's coppermine? Is there still copper there? You literally cannot even bring up an archaeological site without some fool starting an argument about religion. There are some real headcases on this site.
There is clearly one fool posting in this thread. ;)
Quote from: stephendare on October 29, 2008, 11:02:14 AM
Actually this isnt 'par for the course'. Bos is an intelligent and interesting new citizen from Bosnia.
Like alot of the racism in our own country and area, the racist anti semitism of that part of the world doesnt occur as 'racism' to the people that feel it.
I was always surprised by it when I travelled. Much the same way people feel when listening to the lingering anti black rhetoric of the American south.
As I had to explain to Rabbi Perras, one of my early mentors, growing up Pentacostal meant revering Isreal, so I had no idea that people were antisemitic still. I thought it was only the Nazis.
I still find it kind of shocking.
actually most of his posts are puzzling. I'm assuming its because he doesn't speak the language well. So I haven't comment on most. Other than the "republican doctors?
Quote from: Driven1 on October 29, 2008, 11:03:17 AMthis is a particularly strong piece of evidence for the usage of the Bible as a historical document because - as the story mentions - the ONLY place Solomon is mentioned in history is - IN THE BIBLE.
and VOILA - here we are finding (again) the Bible to be backed up by archaeology. surprise!
That a place or person mentioned in the Bible can be corroborated by archaeological record is only evidence of historical presence. Do not conflate historical accuracy with divinity. It is a disservice to both scientific archaeology and faith.
Many other ancient works (including holy works of other faiths) mention people and places of which there is abundant evidence in the historical record. The Bible is no more historically accurate than many other surviving ancient works. Any honest historian and archeologist is quick to admit that there are as many gaps as there are discoveries.
Neat site discovery; thanks for the National Geo link.
QuoteThe Bible is no more historically accurate than many other surviving ancient works
like... (and please provide numerous examples within the texts - as the Bible has been proven historically accurate many, many times by archaeology. )
Baptist.
Quote from: JaxByDefault on November 06, 2008, 09:10:20 AM
Quote from: Driven1 on October 29, 2008, 11:03:17 AMthis is a particularly strong piece of evidence for the usage of the Bible as a historical document because - as the story mentions - the ONLY place Solomon is mentioned in history is - IN THE BIBLE.
and VOILA - here we are finding (again) the Bible to be backed up by archaeology. surprise!
That a place or person mentioned in the Bible can be corroborated by archaeological record is only evidence of historical presence. Do not conflate historical accuracy with divinity. It is a disservice to both scientific archaeology and faith.
The issue is not that this discovery proves the authenticity of everything in the Bible. The point is that this tends to prove that at least that part of the Bible is historical fact. Other portions of the Bible have been similarly verified. The more some portions are found to be true, the more likely the remaining portions are also true.
And the book was a fictional account of a fictional search for the real mines of King Solomon:
QuoteThe "King Solomon" of the book's title is the Biblical king renowned both for his wisdom and for his wealth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Solomon%27s_Mines
BTW, interesting to see a "Christian" "conservative" taking the positions you do these days. It is as if you actually believe the opposite. Very interesting indeed.
How repulsive.
Awww... :D :-*