With the COVID crisis, Carnival plans to substantially reduce their fleet by scrapping or selling at least 6 ships in the next 90 days with more to follow after that.
The Jacksonville Carnival cruise ship, the Ecstasy, is the second oldest ship (1991) in the Carnival Corp.'s fleet. It might be a likely candidate for disposal under these circumstances. I am not sure if any of their newer ships can sail under Dames Point Bridge so if they retire their older and smaller ships Jax could be left without a cruise port at some point, aside from the fact that if they sail fewer ships they will likely have fewer home ports. Given we are a one-ship port, again, one has to wonder how much longer they sail from Jax.
https://cruiseradio.net/carnival-sells-six-cruise-ships-more-to-come/ (https://cruiseradio.net/carnival-sells-six-cruise-ships-more-to-come/)
Excerpt with emphasis added:QuoteCarnival Corp. Sells Six Cruise Ships, More To Come
Only a few days after Carnival Corporation CEO Arnold Donald said there would definitely "be an acceleration of retirement of ships," financial documents revealed that at least six ships will be leaving the fleet in the coming days.
In addition to the six ships which already are definitely leaving various Carnival Corporation brands, Donald has indicated that there are negotiations in place which could see more vessels exiting as well.
Which Ships Will Carnival Be Getting Rid Of?
The topic of older ships and their potential fates came up during the executive's extensive chat with Brian Kelly — founder and CEO of The Points Guy — during a webinar hosted by the site. In discussing the Carnival Cruise Line fleet, Kelly specifically asked if perhaps the Fantasy-class ships, being the oldest, might be phased out.
"First of all, a lot of people love those Fantasy-class ships," pointed out Donald.
For those perhaps not familiar with the ships, they include the Carnival Fantasy (built in 1990), Ecstasy (1991), Sensation (1993), Fascination (1994), Imagination (1995), Inspiration (1996), Elation (1998) and Paradise (1998). This is actually the largest collection of ships, by class, in the fleet.
"They book well and they sail well, and we always keep them fresh," elaborated the CEO of the vessels. "You don't want any ship out there that isn't aligned with guest expectations, so you have to keep the ship fresh."
"Having said that," he continued, "absolutely, there will be an acceleration of retirement of ships. There's no question about that. I'd go so far as to say it's highly probable you're going to see some ships actually scrapped as opposed to just moving to secondary or tertiary markets."
A few days later, as Carnival prepared to disclose their earnings for the second quarter of 2020, we got a bit more information regarding the situation.
A preliminary statement read, in part, "In connection with its capacity optimization strategy, the company intends to accelerate the remove of ships in fiscal 2020, which were previously expected to be sold over the ensuing years. The company already has preliminary agreements for the disposal of six ships which are expected to leave the fleet in the next 90 days and is currently working toward additional agreements."
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on June 18, 2020, 10:38:05 PM
With the COVID crisis, Carnival plans to substantially reduce their fleet by scrapping or selling at least 6 ships in the next 90 days with more to follow after that.
The Jacksonville Carnival cruise ship, the Ecstasy, is the second oldest ship (1991) in the Carnival Corp.'s fleet. It might be a likely candidate for disposal under these circumstances. I am not sure if any of their newer ships can sail under Dames Point Bridge so if they retire their older and smaller ships Jax could be left without a cruise port at some point, aside from the fact that if they sail fewer ships they will likely have fewer home ports. Given we are a one-ship port, again, one has to wonder how much longer they sail from Jax.
https://cruiseradio.net/carnival-sells-six-cruise-ships-more-to-come/ (https://cruiseradio.net/carnival-sells-six-cruise-ships-more-to-come/)
Excerpt with emphasis added:
QuoteCarnival Corp. Sells Six Cruise Ships, More To Come
Only a few days after Carnival Corporation CEO Arnold Donald said there would definitely "be an acceleration of retirement of ships," financial documents revealed that at least six ships will be leaving the fleet in the coming days.
In addition to the six ships which already are definitely leaving various Carnival Corporation brands, Donald has indicated that there are negotiations in place which could see more vessels exiting as well.
Which Ships Will Carnival Be Getting Rid Of?
The topic of older ships and their potential fates came up during the executive's extensive chat with Brian Kelly — founder and CEO of The Points Guy — during a webinar hosted by the site. In discussing the Carnival Cruise Line fleet, Kelly specifically asked if perhaps the Fantasy-class ships, being the oldest, might be phased out.
"First of all, a lot of people love those Fantasy-class ships," pointed out Donald.
For those perhaps not familiar with the ships, they include the Carnival Fantasy (built in 1990), Ecstasy (1991), Sensation (1993), Fascination (1994), Imagination (1995), Inspiration (1996), Elation (1998) and Paradise (1998). This is actually the largest collection of ships, by class, in the fleet.
"They book well and they sail well, and we always keep them fresh," elaborated the CEO of the vessels. "You don't want any ship out there that isn't aligned with guest expectations, so you have to keep the ship fresh."
"Having said that," he continued, "absolutely, there will be an acceleration of retirement of ships. There's no question about that. I'd go so far as to say it's highly probable you're going to see some ships actually scrapped as opposed to just moving to secondary or tertiary markets."
A few days later, as Carnival prepared to disclose their earnings for the second quarter of 2020, we got a bit more information regarding the situation.
A preliminary statement read, in part, "In connection with its capacity optimization strategy, the company intends to accelerate the remove of ships in fiscal 2020, which were previously expected to be sold over the ensuing years. The company already has preliminary agreements for the disposal of six ships which are expected to leave the fleet in the next 90 days and is currently working toward additional agreements."
They should revive the Mayport Cruise Terminal plan. May get more support this time around without the option of any other location.
The immediate question in my opinion is, would it be worth it? Considering we've only had one ship at a time since they built the existing terminal in 2003 (save for the Super Bowl), how much of a return would we get on buying the land for a new terminal, building it, and constructing the access infrastructure? Is there room for another full-size cruise port on Florida's east coast, and if there is, should it be Jacksonville? Or is there a better place we can spend that kind of money?
Looking at the proposed area from the old plan on a map, the only thing it has going for it is that it's close to the ocean with no bridges. Other than that, access is limited to the tiny two-lane road from Wonderwood, Mayport doesn't want it anyway, and at least looking at the old plan, there's only room for one ship at a time like before. For $80-100 million, I don't know what the point would be. To top it off, if we are about to head into another recession, Jax will probably be the first port to get dropped anyway.
I'd be sad to see cruises leave, but for that kind of money we could get started on something like First Coast Commuter Rail, which even in the event of a recession is more likely to get use. If anything, a recession where people are pressured to drive less might be good for something like that.
Didn't we have 2 ships at one time - incl. Celebrity Zenith? I read that Norwegian isn't looking to sail again until at least late September. Btw, who's in the market to actually buy six ships in today's world?
hey for the right price.... :)
I would agree that building a new cruise ship port isn't a good idea. After all, it never got funding back before we were all wondering who's ever going to sail again. Think of all the flu breakouts they had before covid19.
The current one may turn out to be just fine. It piggy backs off of what's done for JAXport in general. And there isn't much to it to keep it running.
Who knows, we may see the big players in the industry shift to smaller ships.
The cruise terminal should be moved to Blount Island. The nownunused coal dock that supported the FPL plant could be repurposed. There's open land for parking facilities there too.
According to wikipedia the Carnival Ecstacy is slated for retirement this year (although I couldn't find any official statements from Carnival...
Anyways, Blount Island is definitely the answer. It 25 minutes from the airport, downtown, the St Johns Town Center and the beaches. If the cruise port were moved there we could handle any ship in Carnivals fleet and have room to allow a second ship to dock. Bus transportation from the airport and nearby would be a breeze. It's a no brainer, therefore our cities leadership will fund tearing down the existing cruise port without any plans or intentions of ever replacing it. ::)
Is there room on Blount Island? I recall that TraPac is moving from Dames Point, west of the bridge, to Blount Island, so their large ships can continue to use the port. I see the former coal dock that acme mentioned. It will require a lot of infrastructure work to make it "cruiser-friendly" instead of "coal-friendly," but might be do-able. Another question, will the Marines allow thousands of civilians that close (right at the fenceline) to their facility on the eastern half of Blount Island?
Quote from: Charles Hunter on June 19, 2020, 04:38:33 PM
Is there room on Blount Island? I recall that TraPac is moving from Dames Point, west of the bridge, to Blount Island, so their large ships can continue to use the port. I see the former coal dock that acme mentioned. It will require a lot of infrastructure work to make it "cruiser-friendly" instead of "coal-friendly," but might be do-able. Another question, will the Marines allow thousands of civilians that close (right at the fenceline) to their facility on the eastern half of Blount Island?
As I recall, the Marines are a top reason Blount Island won't work as a cruise terminal. When they are handling dangerous or high security cargoes they shut the whole area down. Thus, availability of the island is probably too uncertain for a cruise line to schedule reliably around.
Looking at an aerial of Blount Island, it also seems the island is pretty well developed. I didn't see anything of significance not already in use.
I remember looking on a map a few weeks ago and thinking about Blount Island as a cruise terminal. The biggest challenge I saw was what Charles said, making the infrastructure workable for passenger cruising vs cargo and other uses, and how the space would be laid out. But at this point, I go back to my last post and question the point of building a new cruise terminal at all. Between Miami, Fort Lauderdale, Port Canaveral, and Charleston, how much room really is there for Jacksonville? And is the cost of that room worth it given the other things we could spend that kind of money on?
This reminds me of reading the St. Augustine Airport's master plan, and their idea to spend something like a quarter billion dollars on runway expansions and additions, bigger terminals, new hangars, access roads, a taxiway crossing across US-1, it was ridiculous. Meanwhile West Augustine doesn't have sewers. They wanted to build an entire new road through Twelve Mile swamp with a new interchange at I-95 while King Street hasn't had an exit since the day they built the highway. Sometimes we need to choose priorities.
I've mentioned it before in previous cruise related threads, but this ship brings about 200k-300k tourists to Jax every year. If we really beefed up our terminal and adjusted the location we could easily see 500-600k with the bigger ships we could attract and additional ship capacity. That's nothing to snuff at. I remember a few years ago leaving out of Jax and a surprising number of younger people were on the ship because it's a cheaper destination for many people to drive / fly to and the cruises are less expensive too. If we had a port that could support 2 ships you could have a budget ship and a mid class ship.
If you combined that with improved transit to and from the airport, beaches , town center and downtown it would be a worthwhile additional day or two vacation for many people
Quote from: Charles Hunter on June 19, 2020, 04:38:33 PM
Is there room on Blount Island? I recall that TraPac is moving from Dames Point, west of the bridge, to Blount Island, so their large ships can continue to use the port. I see the former coal dock that acme mentioned. It will require a lot of infrastructure work to make it "cruiser-friendly" instead of "coal-friendly," but might be do-able. Another question, will the Marines allow thousands of civilians that close (right at the fenceline) to their facility on the eastern half of Blount Island?
TraPac isn't moving. It seems (shockingly) that they never had any interest in paying a share of port deepening, or paying their share to move their operation on the other side of the bridge (despite Dennis Kelly spending the past decade essentially crying wolf).
Lat year, JaxPort signed a new 25 year lease with existing Blount Island tenant SSA Marine, to expand their container operations at Blount Island (and potentially expanding container cargo to some of the unused breakbulk facilities in the future). SSA chipped in something like $75mm specifically allocated for the channel deepening that has been occurring in stages over the last several years. I believe this week or next, the Mayor's office is sending over a new budget request for another $70-90mm in funds for the City of Jacksonville's share (beyond the federal money received, JaxPort is issuing I believe $200mm in debt for port deepening).
Several Asian liners have been using those Blount Island berths over the past few years, and the upgraded facility will be able to handle offloads for two post-Panamax vessels concurrently.
In the past, Carnival hasn't been willing to sign long term leases here in Jax. A couple of years ago, JaxPort expanded ro/ro auto processing facilities using a portion of the cruise terminal parking lot. I think JaxPort wants the cruise terminal to stay, but the facility needs probably $5-10mm in upgrades... and I can't see the port spending that cash (especially facing reduced cargo volume if a global recession persists) without a long term lease. And I would be surprised if Carnival wants to commit to a long term lease given the short and long-term pressures their industry is facing.
Quote from: jaxjaguar on June 19, 2020, 09:38:17 PM
If we really beefed up our terminal and adjusted the location we could easily see 500-600k with the bigger ships we could attract and additional ship capacity.
We don't need a cruise port to bring in the cruise ship passengers.
If JAX is looking to bring in more tourists it may make more sense to focus on getting Virgin Trains USA to connect, especially if Virgin connects directly with the cruise port at Canaveral.
Assuming both get started/restarted, Virgin Trains is most interested in connecting with the Port of Miami and the new Virgin Voyages venture.
Quote from: jaxjaguar on June 19, 2020, 09:38:17 PM
I've mentioned it before in previous cruise related threads, but this ship brings about 200k-300k tourists to Jax every year. If we really beefed up our terminal and adjusted the location we could easily see 500-600k with the bigger ships we could attract and additional ship capacity. That's nothing to snuff at. I remember a few years ago leaving out of Jax and a surprising number of younger people were on the ship because it's a cheaper destination for many people to drive / fly to and the cruises are less expensive too. If we had a port that could support 2 ships you could have a budget ship and a mid class ship.
If you combined that with improved transit to and from the airport, beaches , town center and downtown it would be a worthwhile additional day or two vacation for many people
There are a lot of variables involved in that. Acquiring enough land to then design and construct a brand new terminal large enough for bigger and additional ships would be what, $100m? 150m? That's assuming that especially after this mess cruise companies will want to bring more than one ship here and have the burden of building a market. I'm not saying there isn't a market at all, but I question if it's really worth the cost of pursuing it. If we have to put in half a billion dollars in taxpayer money (by the time you account for ancillary costs, the airport & connections, road infrastructure, etc.) to go from 300k to 500k, I'd rather that cash go to community development and useful transportation instead of helping Carnival profit.
Quote from: fieldafm on June 23, 2020, 08:07:25 AM
In the past, Carnival hasn't been willing to sign long term leases here in Jax. A couple of years ago, JaxPort expanded ro/ro auto processing facilities using a portion of the cruise terminal parking lot. I think JaxPort wants the cruise terminal to stay, but the facility needs probably $5-10mm in upgrades... and I can't see the port spending that cash (especially facing reduced cargo volume if a global recession persists) without a long term lease. And I would be surprised if Carnival wants to commit to a long term lease given the short and long-term pressures their industry is facing.
That's... not confidence inspiring.
Quote from: bl8jaxnative on June 23, 2020, 02:38:20 PM
We don't need a cruise port to bring in the cruise ship passengers.
If JAX is looking to bring in more tourists it may make more sense to focus on getting Virgin Trains USA to connect, especially if Virgin connects directly with the cruise port at Canaveral.
Has there been any rumor of that? I've heard about the plan to connect with PortMiami, but Canaveral is news to me.
No Virgin isn't building a rail line to Port Canaveral. Any connection would be a shuttle bus from the Cocoa station.
Found a couple of updates for this thread:
Looks like Jackonville's Ecstasy is for sale:
https://www.cruisehive.com/here-are-five-carnival-cruise-ships-that-might-be-sold-soon/40309 (https://www.cruisehive.com/here-are-five-carnival-cruise-ships-that-might-be-sold-soon/40309)
QuoteCarnival Ecstasy
The Carnival cruise ship is the second oldest in the fleet and entered service in 1991. The ship is currently listed for sale on the Ferry & Cruise Shipbrokers web site. Carnival Ecstasy was cruising out Jacksonville, Florida before the pause on cruises.
The ship is 70,367 gross tons and has a guest capacity of 2,056 at double occupancy. Her most recent upgrade was in October 2019 which was mainly general maintenance with the only real highlight of a new Bonsai Sushi Express being added.
Then there is this report that the Ecstasy will be Carnival's first U.S. post-COVID voyage:
https://www.traveloffpath.com/cruise-lines-reopening-dates-of-sailings-and-what-you-need-to-know/ (https://www.traveloffpath.com/cruise-lines-reopening-dates-of-sailings-and-what-you-need-to-know/)
QuoteUS Launch: 4 Day Round Trip Cruise to the Bahamas on October 4th sailing aboard the Carnival Ecstasy
Not sure these reports are in conflict. Carnival may sail the Ecstasy until it is sold. Not good for a cruise ship to sit idle for long - maintenance wise or money wise. But, it appears that when they find a buyer its "outta here!" Also, if they restart cruises with a ship like the Ecstasy and things go terribly wrong (see Carnival's Diamond Princess fiasco), at least they will be cutting their image damage by dumping the tainted ship from their fleet soon after. For Jacksonville, the question then is what happens next.
Are the smaller Norwegian ships still docked around town? Perhaps that's who they should be courting.
Yes, at least two of them are still here. One at Talleyrand and another off Dames Point.
Carnival now disposing of 18 ships vs. 13 a few months ago. Targeting older ones. Can Jacksonville's Ecstasy survive the cut? It is now the oldest ship under the Carnival flag (see listing below). Two caveats: It was last renovated in 2017 and Carnival may have older ships under other flags of its corporate umbrella.
https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/23505-carnival-to-further-accelerate-ship-exits-18-vessels-to-leave.html (https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/23505-carnival-to-further-accelerate-ship-exits-18-vessels-to-leave.html)
QuoteCarnival to Further Accelerate Ship Exits; 18 Vessels to Leave
Carnival Corporation said on Tuesday it will accelerate the removal of less efficient cruise ships from its global fleet.
Previously, the world's largest cruise operator said it 13 ships would exit its fleet, that number has been upped to 18, of which eight have already left the fleet.
"In total, the 18 ships represent approximately 12 percent of pre-pause capacity and only three percent of operating income in 2019," Carnival said, in an SEC filing.
"The sale of less efficient ships will result in future operating expense efficiencies of approximately two percent per available lower berth day ("ALBD") and a reduction in fuel consumption of approximately one percent per ALBD," Carnival said.
"We continue to take aggressive action to emerge a leaner more efficient company. We are accelerating the exit of 18 less efficient ships from our fleet. This will generate a 12% reduction in capacity and a structurally lower cost base, while retaining the most cash generative assets in our portfolio," commented Arnold Donald, CEO, in the filing....
Carnival ships currently by age. Note the oldest ship on the list!
https://www.cruisehive.com/easy-guide-on-carnival-ships-by-age/27734 (https://www.cruisehive.com/easy-guide-on-carnival-ships-by-age/27734)
Quote
2022 – Carnival Celebration (Excel-class)
2021 – Mardi Gras (Excel-class)
2019 – Carnival Panorama (Vista-class)
2018 – Carnival Horizon (Vista-class)
2016 – Carnival Vista (Vista-class)
2012 – Carnival Breeze (Dream-class)
2011 – Carnival Magic (Dream-class)
2009 – Carnival Dream (Dream-class)
2008 – Carnival Splendor (Splendor-class)
2007 – Carnival Freedom (Conquest-class)
2005 – Carnival Liberty (Conquest-class)
2004 – Carnival Valor (Conquest-class)
2004 – Carnival Miracle (Spirit-class)
2003 – Carnival Glory (Conquest-class)
2002 – Carnival Conquest (Conquest-class)
2002 – Carnival Legend (Spirit-class)
2002 – Carnival Pride (Spirit-class)
2001 – Carnival Spirit (Spirit-class)
2000 – Carnival Victory (Transformed to Carnival Radiance in 2020)
1999 – Carnival Triumph (Transformed to Carnival Sunrise in 2019)
1998 – Carnival Paradise (Fantasy-class)
1998 – Carnival Elation (Fantasy-class)
1996 – Carnival Sunshine (Transformed from Carnival Destiny in 2013)
1994 – Carnival Fascination (Fantasy-class)
1993 – Carnival Sensation (Fantasy-class)
1991 – Carnival Ecstasy (Fantasy-class)
If this was covered up-thread, my apologies.
Can any of the newer ships pass under the Dames Point Bridge? The JEA power lines that cross Blount Island and the river?
I know the Miracle (2004) can. It was here for a while and it does clear, but it's tight (about 6 feet to spare at high tide).
Quote from: Steve on September 16, 2020, 09:07:45 AM
I know the Miracle (2004) can. It was here for a while and it does clear, but it's tight (about 6 feet to spare at high tide).
Whoa.
That's terrifying.
Do they stop traffic on the bridge?
That's gotta look pretty scary from the driver's perspective.
They did, as there was a visual illusion that the boat would hit the bridge. They had a guy on top of the smokestack with a stick that measured the distance between the top and the bridge.
I don't think Ecstasy has been at the pier of the cruise terminal for 3 months...
Carnival has sold the
Fascination which sailed from Jacksonville from 2008 to 2016. The current Jacksonville-based
Ecstasy, the oldest ship in the current Carnival fleet somehow has escaped being sold or scrapped so far.
Quote....The Celebration continued to sail between JAXPORT and The Bahamas through April 2008. After a four-month hiatus in service, Carnival restarted Jacksonville-Bahamas cruise service aboard the Carnival Fascination,[5] which provided service from Jacksonville until April 2016...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JAXPORT_Cruise_Terminal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JAXPORT_Cruise_Terminal)
Quote19 Carnival Ships Sold During the Cruise Industry Shutdown
Carnival Fascination
Class: Fantasy
Entered Service for Carnival: 1994
Gross Registered Tonnage: 70,000
Guest Capacity: 2,040
Buyer: Century Harmony Cruise Ltd. (renamed Century Harmony)
The fourth Fantasy-class ship to debut, Carnival Fascination was much loved by cruisers who prefer a smaller ship experience. From late 2017 through early 2018, the ship was chartered by the Federal Emergency Management Agency as a floating hotel, docked in St. Croix, US Virgin Islands, to house relief workers following Hurricane Irma and Hurricane Maria.
https://cruiseradio.net/19-carnival-corp-ships-sold-in-2020-and-2021/ (https://cruiseradio.net/19-carnival-corp-ships-sold-in-2020-and-2021/)
(https://cruiseradio.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/carnival-cruise-line-fascination-768x480.jpg)
We took a family vacation once on one of the Carnival ships out of Jax. I was not yet 21, and maybe not even 18, but I remember drinking rum drinks and smoking cigars with my dad, and overall it was a very fun trip for our whole family. Sure our cabins smelled a little like stale smoke, but I think we were barely in them. My parents have gone on many cruises on many nice ships from the likes of Celebrity and Holland America, and my mother, being from a more European family, grew up taking ocean liners across the Atlantic for travel, so they are seasoned, but I recall all of us having a blast and enjoying the trip and making fast friends with other families.
I can't tell you if it was this ship or another Carnival ship, and it was only 3 or 4 days, but it was a memorable fun time that my family and I will always cherish.
RIP old shithole Carnival ships - you did your jobs well and brought many a smile to many families.
Quote from: simms3 on February 22, 2021, 10:50:01 AM
My parents have gone on many cruises on many nice ships from the likes of Celebrity and Holland America, and my mother, being from a more European family, grew up taking ocean liners across the Atlantic for travel...
Jesus, how old is your mother?!?
My mother actually
is European and travels by air like most people (and she turns 77 this year). Maybe she just wasn't fancy enough?
I do remember us taking a hydrofoil from France to England in the 70s, but I think that was a ferry.
Quote from: Adam White on February 22, 2021, 12:10:35 PM
Quote from: simms3 on February 22, 2021, 10:50:01 AM
My parents have gone on many cruises on many nice ships from the likes of Celebrity and Holland America, and my mother, being from a more European family, grew up taking ocean liners across the Atlantic for travel...
Weird. My mother is European and travels by air like most people. Maybe she just wasn't fancy enough.
I do remember us taking a hydrofoil from France to England in the 70s, but I think that was a ferry.
Adam, we might be talking about some different times here. Even with the advent of planes, it wasn't uncommon to take trans-Atlantic cruises to Europe well into the early 1970's. Many were packaged with Mediterranean or Scandanavian tours and could take up to 6 weeks, maybe more doable in a slower paced world. My retired grandparents took one of these once a year for many years.
In many ways, it was the grand times of cruising with fewer but more special ships like the Queen Elizabeth, Queen Mary, France, Norway and United States (once parked at our port for several years upon its retirement). Ships had more attentive crews and cruise life was a more formal way to travel (many events required male guests to wear tuxes). Not unlike when I was a kid and you got "dressed up" to go to the airport and/or fly. Today's world is way different.
By the way, today, often the best cruise deals are trans-Atlantic and trans-Pacific when cruise lines are repositioning their ships for changing itineraries so, for those with the time, it might be a more interesting and fun way to cross the seas.
I will agree, in past times, travel, generally, and internationally especially, was more upscale and not always for the masses unless it was a very special event in their life. Today, with thousands of planes and hundreds of cruise ships, such travel is mostly more affordable and available to the hordes :).
The France:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/SS_France_Hong_Kong_74.jpg)
The Norway (once the largest ship in the world):
(https://www.cruisehabit.com/sites/default/files/pictures/norway_1.jpg)
The Queen Elizabeth (not the QE 2!):
(http://www.wheeliegoodcruises.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Queen-Elizabeth-2-604x270.jpg)
The United States:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/e0rXJebcTlJZePp0_2kdhOueTbEvIF0-cne_gMdV0RA3XWCVVu-_8YOSf66ZLC7syI4mAIWNzkI1cDeNdF4WUMFdS_6_Ot9F7WY-oEps-Q)
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on February 22, 2021, 12:45:49 PM
Quote from: Adam White on February 22, 2021, 12:10:35 PM
Quote from: simms3 on February 22, 2021, 10:50:01 AM
My parents have gone on many cruises on many nice ships from the likes of Celebrity and Holland America, and my mother, being from a more European family, grew up taking ocean liners across the Atlantic for travel...
Weird. My mother is European and travels by air like most people. Maybe she just wasn't fancy enough.
I do remember us taking a hydrofoil from France to England in the 70s, but I think that was a ferry.
Adam, we might be talking about some different times here. Even with the advent of planes, it wasn't uncommon to take trans-Atlantic cruises to Europe well into the early 1970's. Many were packaged with Mediterranean or Scandanavian tours and could take up to 6 weeks, maybe more doable in a slower paced world. My retired grandparents took one of these once a year for many years.
In many ways, it was the grand times of cruising with fewer but more special ships like the Queen Elizabeth, Queen Mary, France, Norway and United States (once parked at our port for several years upon its retirement). Ships had more attentive crews and cruise life was a more formal way to travel (many events required male guests to wear tuxes). Not unlike when I was a kid and you got "dressed up" to go to the airport and/or fly. Today's world is way different.
By the way, today, often the best cruise deals are trans-Atlantic and trans-Pacific when cruise lines are repositioning their ships for changing itineraries so, for those with the time, it might be a more interesting and fun way to cross the seas.
I will agree, in past times, travel, generally, and internationally especially, was more upscale and not always for the masses unless it was a very special event in their life. Today, with thousands of planes and hundreds of cruise ships, such travel is mostly more affordable and available to the hordes :).
The France:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/SS_France_Hong_Kong_74.jpg)
The Norway (once the largest ship in the world):
(https://www.cruisehabit.com/sites/default/files/pictures/norway_1.jpg)
The Queen Elizabeth (not the QE 2!):
(http://www.wheeliegoodcruises.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Queen-Elizabeth-2-604x270.jpg)
The United States:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/e0rXJebcTlJZePp0_2kdhOueTbEvIF0-cne_gMdV0RA3XWCVVu-_8YOSf66ZLC7syI4mAIWNzkI1cDeNdF4WUMFdS_6_Ot9F7WY-oEps-Q)
Perhaps. As I said, my mother is actually from Europe and never used ocean liners for travel. And she was born in 1944. But maybe some people did, that makes sense, though I question how "European" it is. The only family I have that crossed the Atlantic on ships were my paternal great grandparents, who came over from Poland in the early 1900s.
Quote from: Adam White on February 22, 2021, 12:10:35 PM
Quote from: simms3 on February 22, 2021, 10:50:01 AM
My parents have gone on many cruises on many nice ships from the likes of Celebrity and Holland America, and my mother, being from a more European family, grew up taking ocean liners across the Atlantic for travel...
Jesus, how old is your mother?!?
My mother actually is European and travels by air like most people (and she turns 77 this year). Maybe she just wasn't fancy enough?
I do remember us taking a hydrofoil from France to England in the 70s, but I think that was a ferry.
My mother is from a Swedish/Norwegian family and almost exclusively traveled to Europe by ship. She would go most summers with her mother and brother, and on occasion her father - ship travel for her was actually NOT necessarily luxurious as typically it would be on smaller ships like the Rotterdam and the North Atlantic is very very rough. Yes, she grew up fairly well (her father, my grandfather, was a very successful surgeon in Chicago). She would go on family ski trips to Switzerland, Austria, and the Dolomites and they would travel by ship, as well, bringing the car! The irony is her mother, my grandmother, was a flight attendant for SAS, and that is how she ended up meeting my grandfather...via air travel and stopoffs.
Separately, she did a semester abroad, on a ship, completely circumnavigating the globe and stopping off at various ports along the way. I'm not aware of similar programs today, but it was offered through her school, and this was in the early 70s.
Quote from: simms3 on February 23, 2021, 09:32:35 AM
Quote from: Adam White on February 22, 2021, 12:10:35 PM
Quote from: simms3 on February 22, 2021, 10:50:01 AM
My parents have gone on many cruises on many nice ships from the likes of Celebrity and Holland America, and my mother, being from a more European family, grew up taking ocean liners across the Atlantic for travel...
Jesus, how old is your mother?!?
My mother actually is European and travels by air like most people (and she turns 77 this year). Maybe she just wasn't fancy enough?
I do remember us taking a hydrofoil from France to England in the 70s, but I think that was a ferry.
My mother is from a Swedish/Norwegian family and almost exclusively traveled to Europe by ship. She would go most summers with her mother and brother, and on occasion her father - ship travel for her was actually NOT necessarily luxurious as typically it would be on smaller ships like the Rotterdam and the North Atlantic is very very rough. Yes, she grew up fairly well (her father, my grandfather, was a very successful surgeon in Chicago). She would go on family ski trips to Switzerland, Austria, and the Dolomites and they would travel by ship, as well, bringing the car! The irony is her mother, my grandmother, was a flight attendant for SAS, and that is how she ended up meeting my grandfather...via air travel and stopoffs.
Separately, she did a semester abroad, on a ship, completely circumnavigating the globe and stopping off at various ports along the way. I'm not aware of similar programs today, but it was offered through her school, and this was in the early 70s.
I think that Semester at Sea programme is still around - or it was still around in the early 2000s.
QuoteCarnival has sold the Fascination which sailed from Jacksonville from 2008 to 2016. The current Jacksonville-based Ecstasy, the oldest ship in the current Carnival fleet somehow has escaped being sold or scrapped so far.
The below article, taken with the above fact I previously noted, makes one wonder about the theme of this thread. Are we about to lose the Ecstasy for good?
QuoteCarnival Cruise Line announced its early 2022 lineup of destinations — and Jacksonville is not one of them.
Jaxport officials expressed hope as recently as a fortnight ago that when Carnival declared where it would be sailing early next year that Jacksonville would be included.
The company is starting some cruises back up in January, but the Carnival Ecstasy, the vessel that operated at Jaxport, is one of three U.S.- based ships whose service has been canceled at least until the beginning of March.
"Our restart plan continues to excel across all metrics, and we are looking forward to completing the restart of the fleet in the new year," Carnival Cruise Line President Christine Duffy said in a statement. "We appreciate the support and patience of our guests, travel agents and port and destination partners who have been key to this successful restart."
Carnival's three other Sunshine State destinations will all have at least one ship with routes starting in January.
Miami will have four routes: Carnival Freedom, Carnival Horizon, Carnival Sunrise and Carnival Conquest. Port Canaveral will have four routes: Mardi Gras, Carnival Elation, Carnival Magic and Carnival Liberty. The Carnival Pride will operate out of Port Tampa Bay.
Wednesday's announcement means Jacksonville will go almost two full years — or longer — without cruise service. Carnival suspended its cruise service on March 13, 2020, and the Centers for Disease Control issued its No Sail Order one day later.
Despite the setback, Jaxport is confident that cruise service of some variety will return this fiscal year. The port projected it would earn $1.22 million in cruise revenues for the fiscal year that began on Oct. 1.
https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2021/10/08/carnival-jaxport.html?utm_source=st&utm_medium=en&utm_campaign=me&utm_content=ja&ana=e_ja_me&j=25275543&senddate=2021-10-08
I wish that boat that hit the Mathews a few years ago would've condemned it... It would've been an excellent opportunity to replace the bridge with something taller and move the cruise port to that area. It would better integrate with downtown, provide guests with easier access to hotels to extend their stay in an area that desperately needs it and provide more opportunity for future growth of the industry. Obliviously the Dames Point would need to be raised, but at least it's easier to do that to a suspension bridge and the costs would be easier to swallow than building a completely new bridge.
A taller Matthews would only get bigger ships to Commodore Point, north of the Hart Bridge, which is even lower than the existing Matthews.
While you're raising things, don't forget the JEA power lines
Quote
Raising the lines to 197 feet would cost at least $29 million, according to a study commissioned by JEA that was finalized in October [2020]. Recent surges in construction costs could push that number higher, with the cost getting closer to $100 million if the lines were buried.
https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2021/05/12/jaxport-air-draft-jea-wires.html
Do you have any documentation to support your claim about the costs and ease of raising a "suspension bridge"? By the way, the Dames Point is a cable-stayed bridge, different engineering.
Savannah is working on raising their cable suspension bridge to increase the ship size that can enter their port, so we should have the cost and timeline to do something like that soon.
The terminal should be in Mayport. Period.
Quote from: BridgeTroll on October 12, 2021, 07:48:34 AM
The terminal should be in Mayport. Period.
But it will kill the historic charm!
Unfortunately that was done when all the buildings and shrimp docks along the riverfront were razed.
Quote from: acme54321 on October 12, 2021, 10:26:54 AM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on October 12, 2021, 07:48:34 AM
The terminal should be in Mayport. Period.
But it will kill the historic charm!
You "recreate" historic charm for the folks getting on and off the cruise. I'm in Helen Ga now. The town created a destination out of basically nothing. Mayport could do something similar on a much smaller scale. Unfortunately you need vision and buy in from locals. Dingy and dirty is what the locals seem to prefer.
I mean Singleton's has all the charm we could even need
No doubt. That and the rusting sinking shrimp boats
Well, my prediction is coming true, Carnival Ecstasy is leaving Jax (for Mobile). The good news is it is being replaced by Carnival Spirit, a newer and slightly larger ship being moved here from Australia.
https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2022/02/02/carnival-changing-its-jacksonville-based-cruise-ship/
https://cruiseradio.net/carnival-cruise-line-removes-ship-from-australia/
https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/newer-bigger-carnival-spirit-coming-jacksonville-march-re-start/DLCOVFR5XBCO5HY2A233ERS5NA/
https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/entertainment/goodbye-ecstasy-carnival-brings-new-cruise-ship-to-jacksonville/77-2cc7e9af-46e7-43d6-a127-53365ab0760b
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on October 08, 2021, 07:55:12 PM
QuoteCarnival has sold the Fascination which sailed from Jacksonville from 2008 to 2016. The current Jacksonville-based Ecstasy, the oldest ship in the current Carnival fleet somehow has escaped being sold or scrapped so far.
The below article, taken with the above fact I previously noted, makes one wonder about the theme of this thread. Are we about to lose the Ecstasy for good?
QuoteCarnival Cruise Line announced its early 2022 lineup of destinations — and Jacksonville is not one of them.
Jaxport officials expressed hope as recently as a fortnight ago that when Carnival declared where it would be sailing early next year that Jacksonville would be included.
The company is starting some cruises back up in January, but the Carnival Ecstasy, the vessel that operated at Jaxport, is one of three U.S.- based ships whose service has been canceled at least until the beginning of March.
"Our restart plan continues to excel across all metrics, and we are looking forward to completing the restart of the fleet in the new year," Carnival Cruise Line President Christine Duffy said in a statement. "We appreciate the support and patience of our guests, travel agents and port and destination partners who have been key to this successful restart."
Carnival's three other Sunshine State destinations will all have at least one ship with routes starting in January.
Miami will have four routes: Carnival Freedom, Carnival Horizon, Carnival Sunrise and Carnival Conquest. Port Canaveral will have four routes: Mardi Gras, Carnival Elation, Carnival Magic and Carnival Liberty. The Carnival Pride will operate out of Port Tampa Bay.
Wednesday's announcement means Jacksonville will go almost two full years — or longer — without cruise service. Carnival suspended its cruise service on March 13, 2020, and the Centers for Disease Control issued its No Sail Order one day later.
Despite the setback, Jaxport is confident that cruise service of some variety will return this fiscal year. The port projected it would earn $1.22 million in cruise revenues for the fiscal year that began on Oct. 1.
https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2021/10/08/carnival-jaxport.html?utm_source=st&utm_medium=en&utm_campaign=me&utm_content=ja&ana=e_ja_me&j=25275543&senddate=2021-10-08
https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/carnival-cruise-line-plans-to-retire-two-more-of-its-oldest-ships (https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/carnival-cruise-line-plans-to-retire-two-more-of-its-oldest-ships)
QuoteRestart plans for the Mobile and Jacksonville cruises were delayed making the Carnival Ecstasy and Carnival Sensation among the last scheduled to return to service. They have been expected to resume cruises in March 2022, but Carnival again revised the plans based on continuing delays by Australia to permit cruises to resume. Two cruise ships based down under, the Carnival Spirit and Carnival Splendor, will reposition to North America with the Carnival Spirit briefly taking over the Jacksonville cruises while the Carnival Ecstasy will move to Mobile through October 2022 replacing the Carnival Sensation, which never returned to service after the pause in operations two years ago. The Carnival Ecstasy will retire from the fleet in October 2022.
QuoteIn addition to repositioning the two ships from Australia, Carnival Cruise Line will also be receiving another large ship from its sister brand Costa Cruises in Italy. The line is also adding sister ships to the new LNG-fueled Mardi Gras, the Carnival Celebration due for delivery from Meyer Werft in 2022, and the Carnival Jubilee in 2023. Carnival, however, plans to suspend cruises from Mobile starting in October 2022 till 2023 and assign a different ship to Jacksonville with the details to be announced shortly.
Unless the LNG ships are too big to fit under the Dames Point Bridge, it would make sense to assign one here, with our LNG infrastructure at the port.
Major prestige line Crystal Cruises is out of business. Just closed it's US offices and 3 ships seized. Line first sailed in 1990. Killed by COVID. Looks like this industry will come down to survival of the fittest. Of course, less competition will yield higher prices in time.
Wonder if this will impact bookings with other cruise lines. Not a pretty picture when one closes down.
QuoteThe End of Crystal Cruises as Company Headquarters Shuts Down
The luxury cruise line Crystal Cruises comes to an end as employees receive termination letters and headquarters shuts down.
One of the most prestigious cruise company's in the world is no longer. Crystal Cruises employees in the US all received termination letters this week and will no longer be returning to work.
The crew onboard the Crystal Cruises ships received the news through the Captains of the vessels, while no official announcements have been made by the company President or representatives ashore. Crystal Cruises earlier suspended cruises through April 29, 2022, with River cruises suspended through the end of May 2022....
https://www.cruisehive.com/the-end-of-crystal-cruises-as-company-headquarters-shuts-down/65539