It's not new construction but it's a good name to have downtown and hopefully a better entity for this property.
QuoteDowntown Southbank hotel to be rebranded a Marriott
The Lexington Hotel & Conference Center on the Downtown Jacksonville Southbank will be rebranded as a Marriott.
The Lexington, which is operated by Real Hospitality Group, posted May 5 on Facebook that "Marriott lays anchor in downtown Jacksonville this summer as The Southbank Hotel at Jacksonville Riverwalk."
A "New hotel: Opening in June 2020," is shown on Marriott's Bonvoy website. Bonvoy is the loyalty program for the Marriott chain.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/downtown-southbank-hotel-to-be-rebranded-a-marriott
I was curious where they would slot this in Marriott's portfolio. Looks like they're wrapping this under their Delta Hotels banner.
Here's a little info as to what Delta is going for, as it's a pretty small banner for Delta:
https://hotel-development.marriott.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Delta-March-2020-One-Pager.pdf
https://delta-hotels.marriott.com/about-delta-hotels/
As I can tell, it looks like a "lower cost" full service hotel which does make sense - something in between a Select Service (Courtyard, aloft, Fairfield, etc.) and a full service (Westin, Marriott, Renaissance). I think that would actually fit the property well.
I saw this on FB yesterday. A great spot will be better utilized with this branding.
Cool. Not 55 story new construction but this will do.
That hotel just looks so shitty from the road (and Riverwalk). I hope they do something for the curb appeal but I don't have much hope.
Definite upgrade! That area has improved, and hopefully will continue to.
Fairfield's have really taken a step down over the past few years. We all remember a time when Marriott meant really nice. Fairfield is for sure their lower tier brand. Maybe a courtyard or Springhill suites, either way it's an upgrade. Hilton gets all my stays.
Isn't a Marriot brand opening in Brooklyn?
Quote from: JeffreyS on May 06, 2020, 09:13:24 PM
Isn't a Marriot brand opening in Brooklyn?
Yes, a Residence Inn across the street from 220 Riverside.
Came across renderings of the AC Hotel by Marriott planned at The District. Much smaller in height than the original proposals.
Original - (7A) 16 stories
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/The-District/i-xKTJ6kV/0/37747762/X2/The-District-Masterbook-16-0621-Pg1-7-Compressed_Page_3-X2.jpg)
Current - Likely more reflective of the pre-COVID-19 market
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Urban-Project-Renderings/i-7hT6jcv/0/ffad75d7/XL/2019.06.19-AC-E2-L-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Urban-Project-Renderings/i-bj8GLNc/0/283147f7/XL/2019.06.20-AC-E3-L-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Urban-Project-Renderings/i-vL9nPhF/0/e9031566/XL/2019.06.20-AC-EX1-L-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Urban-Project-Renderings/i-FkBxZ96/0/e1577e67/XL/2019.06.20-AC-E-L-XL.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/Urban-Project-Renderings/i-s8R2xfb/0/40ae0364/XL/2019.06.20-AC-EX2-L-XL.jpg)
QuoteMarriott coming to historic Downtown Jacksonville site
(https://photos.moderncities.com/photos/i-rD9MJmM/1/L/i-rD9MJmM-L.jpg)
The Jaxson Magazine takes a look at plans for a new Downtown Marriott and overall the history of a site that was once the largest shipyards in the South.
Read More: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/marriott-coming-to-historic-downtown-jacksonville-site/
How long can Marriott survive with empty hotels?
Quote from: thelakelander on May 07, 2020, 12:17:00 AM
Came across renderings of the AC Hotel by Marriott planned at The District. Much smaller in height than the original proposals.
I can't help but find it funny how Gainesville is going to have a larger AC Marriott than downtown Jacksonville.
Is this going to be a new build or pre existing?
Rebranding the existing Lexington Hotel on the Southbank. More details are in today's article:
https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/marriott-coming-to-historic-downtown-jacksonville-site/
Quote from: Lunican on May 07, 2020, 09:21:07 AM
How long can Marriott survive with empty hotels?
Likely longer than most other travel related companies. They own a small percentage of their hotels so their exposure is more limited than the Airlines and Rental Car companies, and certainly less than the cruise lines. My guess is for the time being they'll suspend franchisee payments, and that will be the extent of the help they provide those folks.
Quote from: marcuscnelson on May 07, 2020, 10:36:02 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on May 07, 2020, 12:17:00 AM
Came across renderings of the AC Hotel by Marriott planned at The District. Much smaller in height than the original proposals.
I can't help but find it funny how Gainesville is going to have a larger AC Marriott than downtown Jacksonville.
Now come on; why does that surprise you? I think Gainesville and Tallahassee are more of a major city than our Jax. It hurts me to say that, but we are so small minded; too scared to think big.
Quote from: heights unknown on May 07, 2020, 05:34:53 PM
Quote from: marcuscnelson on May 07, 2020, 10:36:02 AM
I can't help but find it funny how Gainesville is going to have a larger AC Marriott than downtown Jacksonville.
Now come on; why does that surprise you? I think Gainesville and Tallahassee are more of a major city than our Jax. It hurts me to say that, but we are so small minded; too scared to think big.
Didn't say it was surprising, just funny.
But yeah, seems fitting that the major college towns are getting more impressive than Jax is.
Hopefully by 2023, someone competent is running for Mayor and the economy is back on the upswing. Maybe by the end of the decade we could actually turn things around.
Lenny's gonna leave that downtown skyline that no one is going to recognize. Just like he promised. Just more empty lots is what I see. He's a horrible mayor. I will never accept the debacle of tearing down the Landing and leaving a hole on the riverfront that will remain that way through the rest of his term. When he runs for a higher office I hope people are reminded what a complete waste of taxpayer money he has been responsible for. Every shot on the news or in commercials of downtown is either old with the Landing or shot toward the Southbank. He demolished the most iconic structure in DT. Empty holes on Bay Street, empty holes where Metro Park used to be. I won't go on. And with this economy for the next few months or even years.....Good Luck.
To add to the history of the site in the article:
When the Sheraton opened, the white table cloth restaurant there was called the Admiralty Room. The whole theme of the hotel was around the maritime industry that predated it on the site. Haven't been in the building in years but there use to be a huge chrome plated ship's propeller in the lobby area to carry out the maritime theme.
Also, original to the Sheraton hotel was a row of shops along what is now the Riverwalk. The original hotel had its own version of the Riverwalk. One of the shops was a fancy kite shop.
In the late 70's and early 80's the hotel had a daily "after-work" party called the River Rally at an outside bar that easily attracted hundreds or more Downtown area workers on a nice day.
The whole site on that section of the Southbank was jointly developed by Fruehauf Corporation* (a major manufacturer of truck trailers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruehauf_Trailer_Corporation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruehauf_Trailer_Corporation) ), who at the time owned Jacksonville Shipyards, and Gulf Life Insurance (who built Riverplace Tower as their HQ's). The original development also included the Hilton Double Tree Hotel (ironically, originally built as a Hilton) alongside the Main Street Bridge.
I believe land held for future development also included the property extending to the School Board and land across the street fronting Riverplace Blvd. (originally Gulf Life Blvd.) that includes the Stein Mart Building and the 1300 Building. It may have also included the Flagler Buildings and land fronting Prudential Drive but I can't recall for sure. Based on the historic aerial, it would appear this is correct.
*More on Fruehauf and Jacksonville per Wikipedia:QuoteThe company declared bankruptcy on October 7, 1996. An axle plant in Ohio was sold to Holland Hitch Company on February 18, 1997, and Fruehauf's United States manufacturing and sales business was sold to Wabash National on March 17, 1997.[15] Prior to the bankruptcy, the Bellinger Shipyard owned by Fruehauf in Jacksonville, Florida, was sold to M. D. Moody & Sons, Inc. for $1.9 million in 1995 and then the Jacksonville Shipyard was sold to developers in 2014.[Per 16 cite this should be 1995] Companies in France, Mexico, New Zealand and Japan continued to operate under the Fruehauf name.[6][15]
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on May 07, 2020, 10:59:00 PM
To add to the history of the site in the article:
When the Sheraton opened, the white table cloth restaurant there was called the Admiralty Room. The whole theme of the hotel was around the maritime industry that predated it on the site. Haven't been in the building in years but there use to be a huge chrome plated ship's propeller in the lobby area to carry out the maritime theme.
Also, original to the Sheraton hotel was a row of shops along what is now the Riverwalk. The original hotel had its own version of the Riverwalk. One of the shops was a fancy kite shop.
In the late 70's and early 80's the hotel had a daily "after-work" party called the River Rally at an outside bar that easily attracted hundreds or more Downtown area workers on a nice day.
The whole site on that section of the Southbank was jointly developed by Fruehauf Corporation* (a major manufacturer of truck trailers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruehauf_Trailer_Corporation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruehauf_Trailer_Corporation) ), who at the time owned Jacksonville Shipyards, and Gulf Life Insurance (who built Riverplace Tower as their HQ's). The original development also included the Hilton Double Tree Hotel (ironically, originally built as a Hilton) alongside the Main Street Bridge.
I believe land held for future development also included the property extending to the School Board and land across the street fronting Riverplace Blvd. (originally Gulf Life Blvd.) that includes the Stein Mart Building and the 1300 Building. It may have also included the Flagler Buildings and land fronting Prudential Drive but I can't recall for sure. Based on the historic aerial, it would appear this is correct.
*More on Fruehauf and Jacksonville per Wikipedia:
QuoteThe company declared bankruptcy on October 7, 1996. An axle plant in Ohio was sold to Holland Hitch Company on February 18, 1997, and Fruehauf's United States manufacturing and sales business was sold to Wabash National on March 17, 1997.[15] Prior to the bankruptcy, the Bellinger Shipyard owned by Fruehauf in Jacksonville, Florida, was sold to M. D. Moody & Sons, Inc. for $1.9 million in 1995 and then the Jacksonville Shipyard was sold to developers in 2014.[Per 16 site this should be 1995] Companies in France, Mexico, New Zealand and Japan continued to operate under the Fruehauf name.[6][15]
I fondly remember coming to the Riverwalk as a child in the early 80s to see the 4th of July fireworks, I remember the shops and the fancy kite shop in particular. It was such a bustling area at the time.
So what happened to the vibrancy? What killed it?
Hotels like this change brands all the time. This thing is 100% #MEH.
^ Seems to me the vibrancy was more a result of novelty. The Riverwalk attracted a lot of visitors in the early days but it was essentially a place to stroll and eat, surrounded by a vertical office park. Many of the features that were intended as part of the original Riverwalk plan were cut when it went over budget, as this site documented very well - the café under the Main Street bridge, the great lawn/amphitheater, the water feature in the river, the Wharf shopping area. The Riverwalk and the Landing together, connected via water taxis, were conceived as a Baltimore Inner Harbor-type development, but the Inner Harbor had other attractions like the aquarium, the historic ships, and the Maryland Science Center to complement walking around and shopping, to say nothing of its larger concentration of hotels and the easy connectivity to dense and walkable neighborhoods with many restaurants, bars, and clubs to attract tourists. The Rouse proposal for the Landing recommended incorporating an aquarium and moving an art museum to the riverfront, and not just having a stand-alone boardwalk and festival marketplace. Of course the convention center was expected to be in the downtown core at the time Rouse made its proposal too.
Also, in the late 1980s, several of the Southbank's largest office tenants, most notably Gulf Life, pulled out or were acquired. That seemingly sucked the life out of the hotels too. By the early 1990s, the Gulf Life Building and some of the other Southbank office buildings (the one were Suddath is now, for instance) were largely vacant; the hotels that are now the Doubletree and Lexington were both operating as independents with uninspiring names ("The Jacksonville Hotel On The River" was one of them), and one eventually closed for several years. Some of the shops at the former Sheraton did hang on into the late 90s, though. It's sad to me to see those buildings vacant now; it was once such a nice, resort-like property.
Even though the hotels are back with brand nameplates and the office buildings are occupied again, and there are residential buildings along the Riverwalk that weren't there in the 80s, it seems like most visitors to the area drive in, eat at the Chart House or Ruth's Chris or River City, and drive out. Lack of connectivity and a pedestrian unfriendly environment are a big part of the problem, I'm sure.
Incidentally, the chrome propeller is still there, outside the main entrance to the hotel.
Quote from: bl8jaxnative on May 08, 2020, 09:37:16 AM
Hotels like this change brands all the time. This thing is 100% #MEH.
I'd normally agree but it's significant that the Marriott name - the #1 brand in hotels, is downtown for the first time in....maybe ever?
Sort of sad to finally hit that milestone but you have to crawl.
^Pretty much. It will be nice to have that brand in downtown. Kind of crazy to think that it has taken this long.
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on May 08, 2020, 09:44:44 AM
^ Seems to me the vibrancy was more a result of novelty. The Riverwalk attracted a lot of visitors in the early days but it was essentially a place to stroll and eat, surrounded by a vertical office park. Many of the features that were intended as part of the original Riverwalk plan were cut when it went over budget, as this site documented very well - the café under the Main Street bridge, the great lawn/amphitheater, the water feature in the river, the Wharf shopping area. The Riverwalk and the Landing together, connected via water taxis, were conceived as a Baltimore Inner Harbor-type development, but the Inner Harbor had other attractions like the aquarium, the historic ships, and the Maryland Science Center to complement walking around and shopping, to say nothing of its larger concentration of hotels and the easy connectivity to dense and walkable neighborhoods with many restaurants, bars, and clubs to attract tourists. The Rouse proposal for the Landing recommended incorporating an aquarium and moving an art museum to the riverfront, and not just having a stand-alone boardwalk and festival marketplace. Of course the convention center was expected to be in the downtown core at the time Rouse made its proposal too.
Also, in the late 1980s, several of the Southbank's largest office tenants, most notably Gulf Life, pulled out or were acquired. That seemingly sucked the life out of the hotels too. By the early 1990s, the Gulf Life Building and some of the other Southbank office buildings (the one were Suddath is now, for instance) were largely vacant; the hotels that are now the Doubletree and Lexington were both operating as independents with uninspiring names ("The Jacksonville Hotel On The River" was one of them), and one eventually closed for several years. Some of the shops at the former Sheraton did hang on into the late 90s, though. It's sad to me to see those buildings vacant now; it was once such a nice, resort-like property.
Even though the hotels are back with brand nameplates and the office buildings are occupied again, and there are residential buildings along the Riverwalk that weren't there in the 80s, it seems like most visitors to the area drive in, eat at the Chart House or Ruth's Chris or River City, and drive out. Lack of connectivity and a pedestrian unfriendly environment are a big part of the problem, I'm sure.
Incidentally, the chrome propeller is still there, outside the main entrance to the hotel.
Corporate consolidations aside (because most cities had to overcome this in the 1980s and 90s), it seems like we never kept adding to the atmosphere, taking advantage of the novelty when it was there. Sort of like aging theme parks adding new rides and attractions to draw visitors back. Baltimore is a good example. They kept adding incrementally within a compact area instead of resting on their original laurels. They're still adding today.
Very true. Not everything Baltimore added worked (the Power Plant indoor theme park, the Gallery mall), but they've constantly added beyond just relying on Harborplace and the Aquarium to bring people back. Walkability is a big factor too. You can easily walk between Inner Harbor and other appealing, pedestrian-centric neighborhoods like Federal Hill, Fells Point, and Little Italy. Jacksonville has some terrific neighborhoods that would attract visitors, but they aren't contiguous with the waterfront core area. If San Marco and Southbank eventually fuse together into one contiguous, walkable area, maybe we'd be in business. And if we could do something about those giant parking lots that separate the two hotels from Riverplace. Obviously Baltimore has its convention center and sports district right there in the core adjacent to Inner Harbor too.
I think this is indeed the first time ever that Marriott has been downtown. Of course the Trio hotel is supposed to be a Courtyard, and a high-rise Marriott was planned in the 90s as a Bucky Clarkson-developed neighbor to the Prime Osborn (falling through after the city subsidized the Adam's Mark instead).
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on May 08, 2020, 02:24:16 PM
Walkability is a big factor too. You can easily walk between Inner Harbor and other appealing, pedestrian-centric neighborhoods like Federal Hill, Fells Point, and Little Italy. Jacksonville has some terrific neighborhoods that would attract visitors, but they aren't contiguous with the waterfront core area.
At the time of MOSH, the Prime Osborn and Landing openings, LaVilla, Brooklyn and the Cathedral District were. Unfortunately, the civic leaders at that time viewed these neighborhoods as detriments instead of assets. One can only imagine what a place as unique and historically interesting as LaVilla would be today if we would have left it alone in the 1980s and 90s.
^ Yes, very true. I often think LaVilla would be the arts hub of Jacksonville now had so much of it not been razed. I have Adrian Pickett's "Harlem of the South" print on my wall by my desk and it reminds me of this every day. So does every time I see what Deep Ellum in Dallas, Sweet Auburn in Atlanta, etc. have become, and LaVilla has greater historical significance than either of them.
Plus those Atlantic terminals. What a wonderful public market that could have become!
80s and early 90s Jacksonville unfortunately treated LaVilla as a scary place worthy of destruction. Somewhere I have a downtown attractions guide from that era that lists the old Irene Perfume factory tour in LaVilla as an attraction, followed by a lengthy "lock your doors and travel with a buddy!" screed that would deter any visitor.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 08, 2020, 08:54:11 AM
So what happened to the vibrancy? What killed it?
I would add a few more thoughts to other comments:
* The hotel's river walk didn't connect to anything until many years later. And, like the Hemming Plaza and Skyway projects, when the City's river walk project comes around, the fact that it takes several years of construction to be completed kills off everything contiguous to the project that was vibrant. Of course, there was no other connectivity to anything else either.
* The hotel parking lot couldn't park enough cars to support the numbers of people needed to sustain the shops, hotel and the hotel restaurants (many times there were no spaces left just based on the River Rallies). There was nowhere else to park at the time beyond the hotel lot.
* The hotel was probably more uptown than Jacksonville could sustainably support at the time (note the turnovers of the Hilton and Adams Mark over the years. Only the Omni, that arrived years later, has stood the test of time in that genre in the urban core).
* The Southbank was more of an outlier at the time (on a City wide basis) vs. more robust activity on the Northbank (how the tables may have turned!). Then, for a while, both sides of the river entered doldrums.
* A good part of the property's business came from Northbank companies and employees. With the gradual demise of much of the Northbank's corporate HQ's and more, the hotel lost much of its constituency. The addition of the Omni on the Northbank probably ate into much of what was left from that side of the river.
* The river's industrial reputation (read as: polluted) didn't exactly draw much attention to what lied along its banks so it wasn't that special to have access to it. The Jacksonville Shipyards directly across the river were still functioning, too, not making for the most attractive scenery (although it was interesting to observe the ships coming in and out!).
* In some ways, I also think the arrival of the Chart House and Crawdaddy's actually pulled the spotlight away from the hotel (plus added to the aforementioned parking issues). Crawdaddy's was very successful but mainly failed because its corporate parent ran it into the ground on the way to bankruptcy. Nothing ever took its place until the apartments there now. I actually think Chart House survives in great part on its recognition by out-of-towners (its a chain) and it's amazing wood work/architecture. (That building needs to be preserved if Chart House ever closes.)
* With Fruehuaf selling out and Gulf Life leaving town, the original master developers' commitment went away. The undeveloped properties were likely sold off in pieces just to liquidate their assets removing any commitment to a private master plan.
* And, the usual suspect: The City of Jacksonville had no (and still doesn't have) a master plan for any of these situations to optimize opportunities for development and/or poorly executes on whatever it attempts. Eventually, activity fades away if random luck doesn't take over.
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on May 08, 2020, 03:40:01 PM
^ Yes, very true. I often think LaVilla would be the arts hub of Jacksonville now had so much of it not been razed. I have Adrian Pickett's "Harlem of the South" print on my wall by my desk and it reminds me of this every day. So does every time I see what Deep Ellum in Dallas, Sweet Auburn in Atlanta, etc. have become, and LaVilla has greater historical significance than either of them.
Plus those Atlantic terminals. What a wonderful public market that could have become!
80s and early 90s Jacksonville unfortunately treated LaVilla as a scary place worthy of destruction. Somewhere I have a downtown attractions guide from that era that lists the old Irene Perfume factory tour in LaVilla as an attraction, followed by a lengthy "lock your doors and travel with a buddy!" screed that would deter any visitor.
Yeah, case in point, look what happened to Springfield? I remember in the 80's, and into the 90's, Springfield was the arm pit of the Northside and Jacksonville; there were drugs, prostitution, sleazy hole in the wall red neck taverns (that I would frequent), and it was just horrible. But most of those old homes and businesses have been turned into diamonds now, and almost the whole neighborhood has turned for the better and changed compared to those days. As a younger man, Springfield was my stomping grounds, and I had a lot of friends who lived there, but I knew it was THE butt hole of Jax. More could have been done to and for LaVilla; but someone, or some people viewed that area in a whole different light than Springfield. Can't help but think that there was an air of racism that played into those decisions; and no, I am not racist at all. However, as a black man, I can't help but remember that Springfield, though the arm pit of Jax back then, was predominantly white and red neck; LaVilla on the other hand was predominantly black. So compare those eggs and put them in a basket and see if there's any comparison or equality. Again, not racist, but I've often thought in that vain regarding this type subject; I could be wrong, and hope that I am.
There was racism involved in the repeated urban renewal attempts of LaVilla. No doubt about it.
Quote from: Steve on May 08, 2020, 10:04:59 AM
Quote from: bl8jaxnative on May 08, 2020, 09:37:16 AM
Hotels like this change brands all the time. This thing is 100% #MEH.
I'd normally agree but it's significant that the Marriott name - the #1 brand in hotels, is downtown for the first time in....maybe ever?
Sort of sad to finally hit that milestone but you have to crawl.
This is Marriot's low end brand. This brand's expansion has been hotels that are 30, 40, 60 years old with nothing to offer. Marriot's grown like a weed, taken on a debt and they have to push into the low end of the market. There isn't much room for growth elsewhere.
Curb appeal is huge for branding. That the Delta brand would accept The Lexington says a lot about it's lack of standards. The Lexington looks like shit.
It's allowed some dilapidated class F office space to sit on site just to eek out a few more bucks. When you pull up to the place half of what you see are minivans for some business. ON the other side a hodge podge of moving trucks, party buses and 20 year old pink limos. Any chain with decent standards wouldn't allow that short of amateur hour crap.
And it's not just this one. Delta's MO since Marriot bought them is to hook up with these weezy ol' properties. It's Marriott's way of squeezing out some more revenue from what their existing setup ( marketing, loyalty programs, reservation system, etc ) while keeping the riff raff at arms length from their higher end brands.
Marriot's been on a growth spurt the last few years. They've gotta a lot of debt to pay off.
Quote from: bl8jaxnative on May 11, 2020, 12:20:24 PM
Quote from: Steve on May 08, 2020, 10:04:59 AM
Quote from: bl8jaxnative on May 08, 2020, 09:37:16 AM
Hotels like this change brands all the time. This thing is 100% #MEH.
I'd normally agree but it's significant that the Marriott name - the #1 brand in hotels, is downtown for the first time in....maybe ever?
Sort of sad to finally hit that milestone but you have to crawl.
This is Marriot's low end brand. This brand's expansion has been hotels that are 30, 40, 60 years old with nothing to offer. Marriot's grown like a weed, taken on a debt and they have to push into the low end of the market. There isn't much room for growth elsewhere.
Curb appeal is huge for branding. That the Delta brand would accept The Lexington says a lot about it's lack of standards. The Lexington looks like shit.
It's allowed some dilapidated class F office space to sit on site just to eek out a few more bucks. When you pull up to the place half of what you see are minivans for some business. ON the other side a hodge podge of moving trucks, party buses and 20 year old pink limos. Any chain with decent standards wouldn't allow that short of amateur hour crap.
And it's not just this one. Delta's MO since Marriot bought them is to hook up with these weezy ol' properties. It's Marriott's way of squeezing out some more revenue from what their existing setup ( marketing, loyalty programs, reservation system, etc ) while keeping the riff raff at arms length from their higher end brands.
Marriot's been on a growth spurt the last few years. They've gotta a lot of debt to pay off.
Some of what you say I agree with. Some I don't. Not worth debating as they have additional renovations planned to the building. The exterior is pretty ugly and that won't change, but I've stayed at plenty of ugly Marriott's before.
There's also nothing wrong with a lower end property. I mean, take lower end with some context as it's supposed to be a lower end "full service hotel" (meaning full food and beverage onsite for those not used to hotel lingo). Personally, I think it's a market that could have some legs.
The bottom line is this: If someone goes to Marriott.com and searches in downtown Jacksonville, they will no longer be shown, "Sorry, try again"
Quote from: Steve on May 11, 2020, 12:40:52 PM
The bottom line is this: If someone goes to Marriott.com and searches in downtown Jacksonville, they will no longer be shown, "Sorry, try again"
Bingo! As a long time Marriott customer that travels for work on a regular basis, this is very important. Also, I'm one that will go for some of the lower end brands, just because I don't value the price difference of what comes with many of the higher ends. I'd only do a Marriott or above if they are affiliated with a conference or if a Springhill Suites, Courtyard, Aloft, Residence Inn, AC Hotels, etc. aren't a viable alternative option. However, I try to avoid Townplace Suites altogether and look at Fairfield Inn's individually, depending on the age and location.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 11, 2020, 01:13:11 PM
Quote from: Steve on May 11, 2020, 12:40:52 PM
The bottom line is this: If someone goes to Marriott.com and searches in downtown Jacksonville, they will no longer be shown, "Sorry, try again"
Bingo! As a long time Marriott customer that travels for work on a regular basis, this is very important. Also, I'm one that will go for some of the lower end brands, just because I don't value the price difference of what comes with many of the higher ends. I'd only do a Marriott or above if they are affiliated with a conference or if a Springhill Suites, Courtyard, Aloft, Residence Inn, AC Hotels, etc. aren't a viable alternative option. However, I try to avoid Townplace Suites altogether and look at Fairfield Inn's individually, depending on the age and location.
Lake, no Marriott's Ritz Carlton, JW Marriott, W, Westin, etc? LOL. Those are nice hotels but rarely worth the price unless you can get a "deal" which they sometimes have in off seasons or days. Stayed at a Springhill Suites once and found out the rooms were not true suites (only a half height wall between the bedroom and seating area). Never stayed at one again.
For hotels, I favor Hilton's Hampton Inns as a best "value." On vacations, we have moved to VRBO/Home Away or AirBnB if its for 5 days or more. Much better accommodations, locations and lower prices than hotels if you take the time to research the offerings (e.g. reviews on Trip Advisor).
Quote from: Steve on May 11, 2020, 12:40:52 PMSome of what you say I agree with. Some I don't. Not worth debating as they have additional renovations planned to the building. The exterior is pretty ugly and that won't change, but I've stayed at plenty of ugly Marriott's before.
I can appreciate that. Always good to hear what others are thinking.
Quote from: Steve on May 11, 2020, 12:40:52 PM
The bottom line is this: If someone goes to Marriott.com and searches in downtown Jacksonville, they will no longer be shown, "Sorry, try again"
What you're referring to is not a thing. It doesn't work like that.
Hotels are in the business of selling rooms. They're going to show you what they have, even if they don't have anything downtown. Unless the user takes actions and narrows the search down, they will see everything in the area.
But ya, for those sticking to a brand that may help bring them downtown. Those little things may help out some of the places in the area. I guess I just don't see that being much of a difference. IMHO the thing to get excited over would be something new getting built. Maybe I'm just a wee bit too biased against anyplace that Spirit Airlines would be overnighting their crews in? :)
Quote from: bl8jaxnative on May 14, 2020, 12:08:02 PM
But ya, for those sticking to a brand that may help bring them downtown. Those little things may help out some of the places in the area. I guess I just don't see that being much of a difference.
Considering its a full service hotel, which tend to cater towards business travelers, brand is in fact a major factor. Most major companies tie their business trips to specific hotel brands. Just because its not a big factor to you, does not mean that it isn't a big factor to a large segment of the travel industry- business travelers and leisure travelers that are tied into loyalty programs.
No one is arguing about what a great hotel it is... its a cheap, bottom-barrel full service hotel. The fact that it is now under a Marriot franchise though, is not a minor detail in terms of the ability to bring more people Downtown.
Quote from: bl8jaxnative on May 14, 2020, 12:08:02 PM
Quote from: Steve on May 11, 2020, 12:40:52 PM
The bottom line is this: If someone goes to Marriott.com and searches in downtown Jacksonville, they will no longer be shown, "Sorry, try again"
What you're referring to is not a thing. It doesn't work like that.
Hotels are in the business of selling rooms. They're going to show you what they have, even if they don't have anything downtown. Unless the user takes actions and narrows the search down, they will see everything in the area.
But ya, for those sticking to a brand that may help bring them downtown. Those little things may help out some of the places in the area. I guess I just don't see that being much of a difference. IMHO the thing to get excited over would be something new getting built. Maybe I'm just a wee bit too biased against anyplace that Spirit Airlines would be overnighting their crews in? :)
It absolutely works like that for many people, especially frequent travelers (loyalty programs)
Prior to this year's events, I averaged between 40-80 nights a year away from the house. That's more than the average person, but pales in comparison to others. For that level of travel, in order to earn meaningful status I need to stick with one company. Unless I had absolutely no practical choice, I'd always fly Delta, stay with Marriott, and (if I had to rent a car) rent from National (I try to Uber but for some trips it's not practical). To be clear - Hilton is an excellent hotel chain and there are certainly other good airlines. But for reasons that work best for me I picked who I picked Two main reasons:
1. The points. Being away from home sucks when you have a wife and two young kids at home. The make-up for that is being able to use points to travel with my family personally. If I split between hotel brands/airlines/etc., it doesn't give me a meaningful amount of points with any one company (yes, I have some of my earning going to AmEx Points, but there's pros and cons - for another day)
2. The status. It's not just so I can get a bigger room or a First Class upgrade (though I don't turn those things down). It's when the unexpected happens with a trip. Say a flight is cancelled/significantly delayed - elite members get preferential treatment during these times in ways such as agents in the SkyClub that can help an itinerary to get me home as soon as possible, plus elite members are higher on the standby list if I want to take an earlier flight.
Best example of this (soapbox moment): I had quick trip to San Francisco and my JAX-ATL flight was significantly delayed due to weather in JAX causing me to misconnect in ATL. All of the flights for the rest of the day were booked solid, and if I didn't get there that night (even if it was late), it would be a "Trip in Vain" (actual airline term BTW). The agent looked at one of the flights that hadn't left yet and went person by person on the plane to see their situation. She found a person that was guaranteed to miss their flight anyway (system hadn't rebooked them yet). She rebooked that person proactively, and gave me the person's previous seat. I estimate she spent 25-30 minutes straight on my issue trying to get me taken care of.
For infrequent/leisure travelers I agree it matters much less - I'd likely do the same thing and book cheapest fare/least number of connections. But frequent business travelers do have their loyalty. Given that Downtown Jacksonville isn't exactly hopping with tourists and leisure travelers, it's going to primarily cater to business travelers and groups/events.
Quote from: fieldafm on May 14, 2020, 12:24:37 PM
Quote from: bl8jaxnative on May 14, 2020, 12:08:02 PM
But ya, for those sticking to a brand that may help bring them downtown. Those little things may help out some of the places in the area. I guess I just don't see that being much of a difference.
Considering its a full service hotel, which tend to cater towards business travelers, brand is in fact a major factor. Most major companies tie their business trips to specific hotel brands. Just because its not a big factor to you, does not mean that it isn't a big factor to a large segment of the travel industry- business travelers and leisure travelers that are tied into loyalty programs.
No one is arguing about what a great hotel it is... its a cheap, bottom-barrel full service hotel. The fact that it is now under a Marriot franchise though, is not a minor detail in terms of the ability to bring more people Downtown.
This. I just spent WAY more words saying the same thing.