Y'all didn't know I was "taking a vote" on the location of WHERE JACKSONVILLE HAPPENS. We got a few jokes, IE: Dunn Avenue, YMCA etc... But here are the apparent serious answers:
Central Business District
Downtown
Main-Water-Jefferson-Adams (the big towers)
Duval and Newnan
The Landing
First Baptist
The Landing
Bay and Market
Modis
Treaty Oak
Landing Court Yard
Landing
Or one could say the area wrapped by the "C" shape of the current SKYWAY! The Skyway serves every point mentioned within a short walk. It would/could serve those East of Hogan with little effort. It's amazing how many people don't get it that TRANSIT has already made some difference in our downtown, grow the SKYWAY and watch the Downtown march along with it.
It's not even a matter of "we don't need BRT" or we "NEED" Commuter Rail, and Streetcars. It's more of a matter of needing all the Mass Transit we can get in these uncertain times. To prosper the City MUST invest in fixed mass transit. Why not in the one system we already have up and running, while we study and submit the other projects through the FTA process? We could break ground on the Skyway to the Stadium or Brooklyn tomorrow, plans in hand.
OCKLAWAHA
More important than mass transit (at least in the downtown core), we need to find away to flip our buildings inside out. There's a ton of activity going on in downtown right now. The streets seem dead because most ground level spaces turn their back or are hidden from the street. For example, find a way to make ground level businesses in the Omni, Landing and MODIS Buildings highly visible from Independent Drive/Water Street and that area's vibe will completely change. The same goes for the bases of BB&T, AT&T, Suntrust and BOA towers.
That is a good point Lake. I had an appointment inside the Omni 4 weeks ago and it was very busy inside about 11:30 am.
The first time I walked inside of the Omni, I thought I had left Jacksonville for a different city. The entire time I was there, I could only think what the surrounding area would be like if those restaurants, bars and shops faced the street, instead of an interior mall. To this day, I still wonder how difficult would it be to install illuminated signage or spaces for outdoor seating/viewing along Hogan and Water Streets. The same goes for the Landing. While we all want new businesses to come downtown, we have a good number there already. We need to spend a little more of our time focusing on how to make them more visible.
Its hard to argue that the political center is Hemming Plaza. But the economic center has to be near butler and southside
I could see the retail center being around Butler and Southside, but I find the economic center would be pretty tough define. NAS Jax and Mayport are our largest single site employers. Most of our major medical centers are located near downtown. All of our four Fortune 500 companies are headquartered within the old city limits. The Southside has our largest college campus and the most office space. The Westside is our manufacturing base and the Northside has our airport and ports.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 26, 2008, 10:29:47 PM
I could see the retail center being around Butler and Southside, but I find the economic center would be pretty tough define. NAS Jax and Mayport are our largest single site employers. Most of our major medical centers are located near downtown. All of our four Fortune 500 companies are headquartered within the old city limits. The Southside has our largest college campus and the most office space. The Westside is our manufacturing base and the Northside has our airport and ports.
I think the mayo clinic may disagree with that statement. I agree the economic center is hard to define, but downtown would not be it. I don't count memorial hospital nor the wonderful st. vincents center in riverside near downtown. So you basically have the baptist center as well as the city hospital. I certainly don't count the fed employees, they are kept there by fed law. Given half a chance they would abandon that building in a heart beat. I have asked here before what is the daily employment within 1 mile of downtown vice southside and butler. I think its very close don't really care about headquarters myself, don't employee a lot of people more of an ego trip for the city and employees a few high payed people that live in st johns county. Westside does have more manufacturing than most areas, hopefully more when Alenia starts up the aircraft factory.
QuoteMost of our major medical centers are located near downtown.
This covers Baptist, Memorial, Shands and St. Vincents. Mayo is the one major exception, but that's why mentioned "most".
If we drew a one mile radius and downtown and a one mile radius around the interchange of JTB/Southside, there would still be more workers downtown. For every office building, you would have to account for a parking lot that takes up four times the footprint of each building. Add in retention ponds and large setbacks and that number isn't as quite impressive.
The Southside is similar to a kicked ant hill. There is no central employment center there either. Its spread out over several miles between Baymeadows, Southpoint, Deerwood Park and UNF.
While I do believe downtown is the cultural, governmental and entertainment center for the city, I also don't thinkit is the economic center of the region. I don't know if we have one. I don't know if most cities have a clear one that stands out. We're a sprawler and out major areas of employment follow a similar trend.
While I do believe downtown is the cultural, governmental and entertainment center for the city, I also don't thinkit is the economic center of the region. I don't know if we have one. I don't know if most cities have a clear one that stands out. We're a sprawler and out major areas of employment follow a similar trend.
We do Lake, just so present that we miss it.
TRANSPORTATION
Our PORT
Our Railroads
Our Trucklines
Our Airports
employ more people and command more $$ then any other Jacksonville "engine" including and far out-pacing the Navy. The footprint is so huge, it is known from Beijing to Bogota and Hamburg to Houston. What we currently lack in passenger trade we more then make up for in tonnage, jobs, massive investment.
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: thelakelander on October 26, 2008, 11:42:06 PM
QuoteMost of our major medical centers are located near downtown.
This covers Baptist, Memorial, Shands and St. Vincents. Mayo is the one major exception, but that's why mentioned "most".
If we drew a one mile radius and downtown and a one mile radius around the interchange of JTB/Southside, there would still be more workers downtown. For every office building, you would have to account for a parking lot that takes up four times the footprint of each building. Add in retention ponds and large setbacks and that number isn't as quite impressive.
The Southside is similar to a kicked ant hill. There is no central employment center there either. Its spread out over several miles between Baymeadows, Southpoint, Deerwood Park and UNF.
While I do believe downtown is the cultural, governmental and entertainment center for the city, I also don't thinkit is the economic center of the region. I don't know if we have one. I don't know if most cities have a clear one that stands out. We're a sprawler and out major areas of employment follow a similar trend.
Memorial, and St. vincents are NEAR downtown? I thought we were talking about downtown not sights NEAR it. If Memorial is considered downtown then I guess I live downtown off lane avenue.
They're both within 5 miles of downtown. If You're going to compare downtown apples for apples with a sprawling area like the JTB area, mileage must be considered. Nevertheless, I think the original post was asking for the center of downtown, not the economic center of the city.
Yes, the geographic locale of the social heartbeat of the city.
OCKLAWAHA
Is Memorial and St Vincents closer to "downtown" than Mayo is to JTB/Southside?
I think so.
Downtown is not just the northbank, it is north riverside, san marco, and those areas.
Draw a 5mile circle around downtown and a 5 mile around JTB/Southside.
More people and businesses downtown than JTB/Southside.
If you want to talk household incomes, hell, even Middleburg Zip Code is higher than most of the southside's main zip codes.
32068:
http://www.zip-codes.com/zip-code/32068/zip-code-32068.asp
QuoteCurrent Population: 52,084
2000 Population: 36,795
Households per Zip Code: 13,351
Average House Value: $98,000
Avg. Income Per Household: $46,706
32256:
http://www.zip-codes.com/zip-code/32256/zip-code-32256.asp
QuoteCurrent Population: 42,788
2000 Population: 29,141
Households per Zip Code: 15,247
Average House Value: $213,200
Avg. Income Per Household: $45,460
32224 has a high population/household income:
QuoteCurrent Population: 38,458
2000 Population: 32,625
Households per Zip Code: 13,450
Average House Value: $149,300
Avg. Income Per Household: $55,103
so does 32257:
QuoteCurrent Population: 40,515
2000 Population: 36,364
Households per Zip Code: 15,651
Average House Value: $111,300
Avg. Income Per Household: $48,452
32246:
QuoteCurrent Population: 51,340
2000 Population: 36,100
Households per Zip Code: 14,343
Average House Value: $86,500
Avg. Income Per Household: $43,672
32216:
QuoteCurrent Population: 37,242
2000 Population: 29,483
Households per Zip Code: 12,434
Average House Value: $83,500
Avg. Income Per Household: $41,354
Combine All of Clay County's household income, and you are talking about more purchasing power per household than the southside has.
Does anyone think of Clay as anything other than a bedroom community?
Downtown is still the economic center of the city. More business is done downtown than anywhere else in the city.
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Back to the original question,
I have always considered Bay St/Main St as the "center" of downtown.