Not surprising. Millions spent but still no solid plan or money budgeted towards a resolution any time soon. We're coming up on a full year of dead space now, so another conceptual visioning process could take place in upcoming months.
Full article: https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20200221/city-might-use-design-competition-for-future-vision-of-landing-site-post-demolition
That space was dead long, long, long ago.
Quote from: bl8jaxnative on February 22, 2020, 09:46:47 AM
That space was dead long, long, long ago.
It was less dead before we spent $32 million on it, and counting.
Quote from: thelakelander on February 22, 2020, 09:01:18 AM
Not surprising. Millions spent but still no solid plan or money budgeted towards a resolution any time soon. We're coming up on a full year of dead space now, so another conceptual visioning process could take place in upcoming months.
Full article: https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20200221/city-might-use-design-competition-for-future-vision-of-landing-site-post-demolition
This should be all the evidence people need to stop doing these wasteful things.
Just quickly appreciating the delightful fact that Toney Sleiman loved the Wakefield Beasley concept with the two six-story buildings and public space and was ready to partner with the city and pump millions of private dollars into it, but instead, we buy Sleiman out for $15 million (plus the parking settlement), knock down the Landing for another few million, and decide, "Shit, that Wakefield Beasley concept was pretty good after all, let's use that."
Silver lining, just based on reading this article, is that hopefully Boyer isn't married to Lenny's Lawn if she's referencing the much better Beasley design as inspiration. Sounds like she's open to adding the chef-driven riverfront restaurants and cafes absent from the Lawn plan back into whatever happens at the Landing. Two pads for mid-rise, open space in the middle, and restaurants/cafes/public art installations along the river is a lot better than what was proposed by Curry. Will still take much too long and cost way too much, but at least it would be a denser, more attractive space.
Wait.....are you saying that the public Landing design charette that I participated in back in 2015 was a waste of time? That was two hours of my valuable time!
But seriously, being at the former Landing site the other day really makes you realize what potential it has. If COJ gets it right, it could be a landmark/icon/focal point that people value.
Here are the sketches of the 2015 Wakefield Beasley plan that Lori Boyer is referencing in terms of reducing the footprint of the two main buildings, keeping the riverfront restaurants/cafes, and having the greenspace interface with the Times-Union Center.
Such a smarter use of the space than what Curry floated.
Would not be at all opposed to sticking with this plan and foregoing yet another design competition.
What's gone is gone, but the economy is going to turn eventually, and we need to have some urgency with the Landing.
(https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/sites/default/files/240696_standard.jpeg)
(https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/sites/default/files/240699_standard.jpeg)
(https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/sites/default/files/styles/sliders_and_planned_story_image_870x580/public/240698_standard.jpeg)
(https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/sites/default/files/240697_standard.jpeg)
(https://news.wjct.org/sites/wjct/files/styles/medium/public/201904/2015_landing_study_site-34.jpg)
If the plan is to stick with the 2015 plan just RFP the development sites and pony up the cash to fund the public space. No need to keep having design comps now.
Quote from: Bill Hoff on February 22, 2020, 01:51:46 PM
Wait.....are you saying that the public Landing design charette that I participated in back in 2015 was a waste of time? That was two hours of my valuable time!
But seriously, being at the former Landing site the other day really makes you realize what potential it has. If COJ gets it right, it could be a landmark/icon/focal point that people value.
I agree Bill; didn't know that you played a part in the concept/vision of the future site. Judging from what I've read, and the despicable tearing down and wrecking ball of the Landing/Landing site, as of late, and as of even a few years ago, I've come to the conclusion that our City Leaders, especially at present, have no vision, focus, imagination, or planning acumen whatsoever......NONE! I agree with you Bill, and haven't physically seen the horrendous wreck and debris of the site as of late, however, from the photos I've seen, and remembering the site as it was before the Landing was even built (I lived in Jax at the time), that is in fact a prime piece of property; and, the City of Jax, and that site deserseves something much better that is being planned. In my opinion whatever goes there, on the riverfront (prime property), should be iconic, public driven, commercial, and residential rolled into one. No, don't have to be a skyscraper or skyscrapers which as a "height" fan, I would prefer, but it should be something that the citizens of Jax and Duval can be driven and attracted to and enjoy (including residential), and that when people drive through downtown via I-95 whether local or out of towners, they will be attracted to it via visual appeal at first and will want to stop. Bad, bad thing that was done to the Landing, and horrible thing that has happened to the property and the resulting "fumbling of the football" by City Leaders (Boyer and Curry in particular). Hope there's a change of mind and heart and something intense, stunning, and mind boggling is finally chosen and goes there.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on February 22, 2020, 03:05:15 PM
Here are the sketches of the 2015 Wakefield Beasley plan that Lori Boyer is referencing in terms of reducing the footprint of the two main buildings, keeping the riverfront restaurants/cafes, and having the greenspace interface with the Times-Union Center.
Such a smarter use of the space than what Curry floated.
Would not be at all opposed to sticking with this plan and foregoing yet another design competition.
What's gone is gone, but the economy is going to turn eventually, and we need to have some urgency with the Landing.
(https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/sites/default/files/240696_standard.jpeg)
(https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/sites/default/files/240699_standard.jpeg)
(https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/sites/default/files/styles/sliders_and_planned_story_image_870x580/public/240698_standard.jpeg)
(https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/sites/default/files/240697_standard.jpeg)
(https://news.wjct.org/sites/wjct/files/styles/medium/public/201904/2015_landing_study_site-34.jpg)
I had forgot about this rendering/conceptual design sketches; I love it. I agree wholeheartedly Ken. THIS would be THE thing that SHOULD go there. If chosen, this would probably be one up on THE JACSONVILLE LANDING that was there before...in my opinion; would all depend on the City, again, not fumbling the football and ensuring that we get ALL CONCERNED, that is, relative to residents, companies, vendors, etc., to buy into it and will want to be THERE. I hope this, in all of its fullness and what is sketched, is chosen and comes to fruition. And yes, we need to move now and move quickly; the market might soon downturn and we don't want to miss this critical "window of opportunity."
IMO, and from what I see, THIS could be a game changer for the Northbank Riverfront and downtown Jax. COULD be, I said; it all depends on our inept City/Government Leaders. Let's see what happens.
If not for a bad and expensive political statement five years ago, that 2015 plan could have been built by now.
Quote from: thelakelander on February 23, 2020, 03:33:01 PM
If not for a bad and expensive political statement five years ago, that 2015 plan could have been built by now.
I agree Lake; and again it points to our Leaders, whether former or current. Will someone please get a crowbar and get their heads out of their sphincters?
and Curry's plan is garbage. He's completely at fault for this pile of crap.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on February 22, 2020, 03:05:15 PM
What's gone is gone, but the economy is going to turn eventually, and we need to have some urgency with the Landing.
Well...
Quote from: marcuscnelson on March 10, 2020, 04:47:38 PM
Quote from: Ken_FSU on February 22, 2020, 03:05:15 PM
What's gone is gone, but the economy is going to turn eventually, and we need to have some urgency with the Landing.
Well...
Yep. It looks like Jax missed out on the greatest economic growth period in US history.
Saying the economy is gone is being a bit dramatic at this point.
Quote from: Kerry on March 10, 2020, 05:00:34 PM
Quote from: marcuscnelson on March 10, 2020, 04:47:38 PM
Quote from: Ken_FSU on February 22, 2020, 03:05:15 PM
What's gone is gone, but the economy is going to turn eventually, and we need to have some urgency with the Landing.
Well...
Yep. It looks like Jax missed out on the greatest economic growth period in US history.
Yep, AGAIN.
Quote from: acme54321 on March 10, 2020, 06:13:07 PM
Saying the economy is gone is being a bit dramatic at this point.
Maybe, but with so many people freaking out over nothing who knows what will happen. I was on a conference call today and one of the participants was brought to tears because she was told she still has to be on-site at the client next week. She is practically scared to death of coronovirus.
Quote from: acme54321 on March 10, 2020, 06:13:07 PM
Saying the economy is gone is being a bit dramatic at this point.
Dramatic, perhaps, but is it wrong? All of my trading buddies are betting things will keep falling, and no one believes that these desperate subsidies are going to make up for the dramatic downturn in consumer spending, the vaporization of travel
and the oil war going on between the Saudis and the Russians.
those are all buy signals...
Quote from: downtownbrown on March 11, 2020, 09:53:44 AM
those are all buy signals...
Exactly. Right now, it's all fear driven. It could obviously get much worse, but if it doesn't and the media headlines are gone everything will go back to normal lickety split. Just a bump in the road.
Quote from: acme54321 on March 11, 2020, 10:13:39 AM
Quote from: downtownbrown on March 11, 2020, 09:53:44 AM
those are all buy signals...
Exactly. Right now, it's all fear driven. It could obviously get much worse, but if it doesn't and the media headlines are gone everything will go back to normal lickety split. Just a bump in the road.
Shawshank Redemption..."lickety split!"
Quote from: acme54321 on March 11, 2020, 10:13:39 AM
Quote from: downtownbrown on March 11, 2020, 09:53:44 AM
those are all buy signals...
Exactly. Right now, it's all fear driven. It could obviously get much worse, but if it doesn't and the media headlines are gone everything will go back to normal lickety split. Just a bump in the road.
For some industries yes, but not others. Seats on a plane can't be sold after the plane leaves. Hotel rooms can't be sold retroactively. Once that revenue is lost it is gone forever.
Quote from: downtownbrown on March 11, 2020, 09:53:44 AM
those are all buy signals...
Yeah, yeah, buy the dip.
Quote from: acme54321 on March 11, 2020, 10:13:39 AM
Exactly. Right now, it's all fear driven. It could obviously get much worse, but if it doesn't and the media headlines are gone everything will go back to normal lickety split. Just a bump in the road.
This sounds like something someone says in a movie before it gets much worse.
Quote from: marcuscnelson on March 10, 2020, 09:59:11 PM
Quote from: acme54321 on March 10, 2020, 06:13:07 PM
Saying the economy is gone is being a bit dramatic at this point.
Dramatic, perhaps, but is it wrong? All of my trading buddies are betting things will keep falling, and no one believes that these desperate subsidies are going to make up for the dramatic downturn in consumer spending, the vaporization of travel and the oil war going on between the Saudis and the Russians.
I follow a discussion on oil prices from people deep in the industry and they are expecting a significant number of bankruptcies (Chapter 7, not 11) in Houston, Dallas, OKC, Tulsa, Midland, and Denver that are going to have a huge impact on the country's banking sector which will all but dry up funding for a lot of stuff.
Any development not coming out of the ground right now in Jax, probably won't.
When the public sees celebrities like Tom Hanks, his wife and an NBA player getting the coronavirus, expect the "fear factor" to explode.
Add seasons cancelled, games in empty arenas, flights from Europe cut off, colleges closed, Italy shut down... people are going to connect dots and see that everyone is going to be touched by this before it's over. This will cause paralysis like the opening shots of the first Iraq war or at 9/11 but maybe worse since its involuntary at the individual level when quarantines and close downs cut in.
Trump didn't come across very confident tonight (lots of cheer leading bluster mixed in) and the markets weren't buying his plan with Dow futures down another 1,000 points or so.
I was among those who initially didn't expect this degree of disruption but after seeing China shut down whole cities it occurred to me we are the same humans and, thus, that every country may end up doing what they did. We are now seeing movement toward that.
With concerns about overwhelmed hospitals, the temporary hospitals China built for treating the coronavirus patients exclusively looks like a potential outcome here but I don't hear anyone talking about it yet.
Some damage will be long lasting. I don't think the cruise industry is going to rebound very quickly. They have always had issues with the norovirus and have been, more and more, treating passengers like cattle with their giant ships, so I don't think it will take much here to put off customers for a long time. People aren't going to quickly forget ships at sea or quarantined in ports for weeks at a time while the virus spread through the ship.
Quote from: marcuscnelson on March 11, 2020, 12:31:26 PM
Quote from: acme54321 on March 11, 2020, 10:13:39 AM
Exactly. Right now, it's all fear driven. It could obviously get much worse, but if it doesn't and the media headlines are gone everything will go back to normal lickety split. Just a bump in the road.
This sounds like something someone says in a movie before it gets much worse.
So it got much worse.
Some food for thought for the old site of The Landing and Downtown JAX
http://www.bmoremedia.com/features/innerharborlessonsfortheworld020811.aspx
Caution 1: Ease back on the shopping malls.
Harborplace, inaugurated by the Rouse Company in 1980, started a pernicious trend of building "festival marketplaces" in historic locations. Throughout the 1980s, they followed the Baltimore model with Boston's Faneuil Hall, New York's South Street Seaport, Jacksonville Landing, and Miami's Bayside Marketplace. While the architecture usually isn't dreadful, and the idea of historic preservation is a positive impulse, the effect is to create cookie cutter interior environments, filled with the same chain stores. Independent retail is the key to a unique urban experience, which visitors don't find in the gleaming Filene's Basement or Best Buy, but do get a few blocks away in Fell's Point. Philadelphia's Old City, just a stone's throw from the waterfront, is likewise a bastion of interesting and eclectic boutiques.
Is this a recent article? The popularity of 1980 shopping malls largely died out over a decade ago. Many of these places are being adaptively reused into other uses such as museums, food halls, public markets, hotels, event spaces, etc. that feature local businesses and experiences.
Quote from: thelakelander on March 14, 2020, 02:13:31 PM
Is this a recent article? The popularity of 1980 shopping malls largely died out over a decade ago. Many of these places are being adaptively reused into other uses such as museums, food halls, public markets, hotels, event spaces, etc. that feature local businesses and experiences.
From the dateline on the article - uh, NO, not recent (unless you mean in The History of Mankind recent)
Greg Scruggs | Tuesday, February 08, 2011
Quote from: thelakelander on March 14, 2020, 02:13:31 PM
Is this a recent article? The popularity of 1980 shopping malls largely died out over a decade ago. Many of these places are being adaptively reused into other uses such as museums, food halls, public markets, hotels, event spaces, etc. that feature local businesses and experiences.
2011.