(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Neighborhoods/Downtown-Vacant-Lots/i-w6psxFW/0/21b26d31/L/20190504_081649-L.jpg)
Quote
Over a decade has passed since downtown advocates promoted the development of a courthouse square by successfully rallying to keep Monroe Street from being built in front of the Duval County Courthouse. Now the Cultural Council of Greater Jacksonville plans to activate this space and would like your input.
Read more: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/help-plan-the-duval-county-courthouse-plaza/
Move the Vietnam Memorial from the stadium parking lot and add memorials for all the other wars. The war memorials in Paris, TX and Wichita, KS are pretty nice.
Quote from: Kerry on February 03, 2020, 03:11:16 PM
Move the Vietnam Memorial from the stadium parking lot and add memorials for all the other wars. The war memorials in Paris, TX and Wichita, KS are pretty nice.
I like this. Might provide an opportunity to go back to the original concept of grouping the names by high school attended. As I understand it, after the original names (and maybe a few more), they have just been added at the ends of the memorial.
Maybe a little plaza on the corner of Adams and Pearl with a little coffee shop or something simple with some seating. A little amphitheater would be nice in sort of a "free speech" area.
I know they have a James Weldon Johnson park over near the new JTA Center but, as an attorney, James Weldon Johnson could be honored with a statute in one section of the green with some seating around it.
I do think this area needs to compliment, in whatever ways, things going on at Hemming and then whatever the park is supposed to look like/amenities at the Landing site.
Quote from: Kerry on February 03, 2020, 03:11:16 PM
Move the Vietnam Memorial from the stadium parking lot and add memorials for all the other wars. The war memorials in Paris, TX and Wichita, KS are pretty nice.
I like the idea but I think a Riverwalk location would be much better for something like this. Given JAX is a Navy town, we should emphasize this kind of thing.
Quote from: vicupstate on February 04, 2020, 07:17:11 AM
Quote from: Kerry on February 03, 2020, 03:11:16 PM
Move the Vietnam Memorial from the stadium parking lot and add memorials for all the other wars. The war memorials in Paris, TX and Wichita, KS are pretty nice.
I like the idea but I think a Riverwalk location would be much better for something like this. Given JAX is a Navy town, we should emphasize this kind of thing.
Where could it go along the river? There isn't a lot of public space, at least on the Northbank. Wichita, KS has an awesome riverfront where their veterans memorials are located. One of the challenges for Jax is that the St Johns is simply to wide for human scale.
http://wichitaveteransmemorialpark.com/
I don't think it has to be a challenge. Norfolk has fared well with the Elizabeth River.
Quote from: thelakelander on February 05, 2020, 09:09:10 PM
I don't think it has to be a challenge. Norfolk has fared well with the Elizabeth River.
Norfolk pretty much still has a working waterfront. They better pray those shipyards don't move.
Yes, it's a great asset and interesting scene to see. As long as the Navy is there, they'll have shipyards. However, the river is pretty wide through downtown Norfolk and the downtown waterfront is still lined with maintained parks, museums, restaurants, retails and multifamily housing.
I'm thinking jurors might appreciate a food truck or two, with some tables, chairs, benches and shading (think something arty, like those crazy big sails that graced the balcony of the old HRS building downtown) of some sort built on part of the space. As for any type of gatherings, is that space really large enough to accommodate sizeable crowds?
Quote from: sandyshoes on February 11, 2020, 09:16:42 AM
I'm thinking jurors might appreciate a food truck or two, with some tables, chairs, benches and shading (think something arty, like those crazy big sails that graced the balcony of the old HRS building downtown) of some sort built on part of the space. As for any type of gatherings, is that space really large enough to accommodate sizeable crowds?
After doing Jury duty last week and seeing it up close, it's bigger than you think. Done right it could definitely accommodate over a thousand people using both sides.
Well, this project just took a fantastically ridiculous turn:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/courthouse-public-art-project-takes-step-forward
• No trees may be planted.
• No water features.
• No long-term seating.
• The landscape must be easily maintained using only lawnmowers, leaf blowers and pressure washing.
• The site plan must allow for possible future restoration of Monroe Street between Pearl and Julia streets, along Adams Street and the south side of the courthouse.
Quote
Trees could block the view for surveillance cameras and long-term seating could make it possible for someone to wait to confront someone else entering or leaving the courthouse, a victim of domestic violence, for example, he said.
Permanent seating makes it easier to wait to confront someone!? So if I was hellbent on confronting someone I'd come there, realize there's no seating, then because of that make a better choice!?
Meh, seems reasonable. Chilling in front of a coffee shop or event venue? These restrictions would suck. The front of the courthouse isn't meant to be a hangout spot, though, and the security concerns seem valid. Plus, with our history of maintaining public spaces, being painfully realistic about leafblowers, pressure washers, and lawnmowers seems like a step in the right direction for keeping the space in good shape.
Personally, once I'm done paying my traffic tickets at the courthouse, I wanna get the heck outta there
Quote from: Steve on June 09, 2020, 10:02:10 AM
Quote
Trees could block the view for surveillance cameras and long-term seating could make it possible for someone to wait to confront someone else entering or leaving the courthouse, a victim of domestic violence, for example, he said.
Permanent seating makes it easier to wait to confront someone!? So if I was hellbent on confronting someone I'd come there, realize there's no seating, then because of that make a better choice!?
Actually, I get it. Standing around can be tiring, and it might give a chance for someone to change their mind. And, if someone is standing around outside stewing to themselves it might give security time to come out and ask what's going on.
Obviously, if someone is genuinely hellbent on doing that, then nothing will stop them, but there's a lot of space before that point where intervention might be possible.
Perhaps Nashville didn't get the message....
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-4FxM6cP/1/L/i-4FxM6cP-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-HppFpng/1/L/i-HppFpng-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-HBP3X9T/1/L/i-HBP3X9T-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-XpWFNjC/1/L/i-XpWFNjC-L.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-mJJ3tFN/1/L/i-mJJ3tFN-L.jpg)
Overall the demands are pretty archaic and omit true community involvement and urban planning. Trees and benches are a security risk but a street running right past the front door aren't? That simply makes no sense. If blocking of security cameras is a concern, then the next step would be to identify those view corridors and places where you can add foliage that don't do that. Or select trees with narrow trunks that don't allow people to hide behind them. If fountains and water features are a concern because we don't want to maintain them, then perhaps we need a "Friends of" type non-profit to maintain and program the space? Plus, why are we still talking about this Monroe Street thing. What self serving party is actually still pushing for that thing? We certainly don't need it from a traffic movement perspective. Overall, I just see a lot of missed opportunity, largely driven by concerns that should not drive the vision, long term design and experience.
Quote from: Steve on June 09, 2020, 10:00:42 AM
Well, this project just took a fantastically ridiculous turn:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/courthouse-public-art-project-takes-step-forward
• No trees may be planted.
• No water features.
• No long-term seating.
• The landscape must be easily maintained using only lawnmowers, leaf blowers and pressure washing.
• The site plan must allow for possible future restoration of Monroe Street between Pearl and Julia streets, along Adams Street and the south side of the courthouse.
Looks like the Feds didn't get the memo either and the building here incorporated all the latest security designs following Oklahoma City.
(https://d298ibdccqcijg.cloudfront.net/2014/02/Alucobond_Jacksonville_Courthouse_Jacksonville_Florida_2.jpg)
https://www.alucobondusa.com/blog/jacksonville-courthouse/#.XuAALqZ7mUk (https://www.alucobondusa.com/blog/jacksonville-courthouse/#.XuAALqZ7mUk)
If they truly cared about Monroe Street, they shouldn't have built the courthouse the way they did in the first place. Further, if they restore Monroe, with it running up against the face of the building, it would likely create a lot more security issues than the ones they are concerned about here.
Really, trees are an issue? Guess that also means they won't line a restored Monroe St. either?
Regarding seating, many government buildings have steps leading up to them (think Jax Federal Courthouse pictured above, the US Capitol, US Supreme Court, etc.). Can't people sit on the steps or sidewalls of them if they really want to find a seat? Hemming Plaza has seats and it's at the front doors to City Hall. Someone could also sit in their car in the meter spaces in front of the Courthouse. That's even worse as there is no telling what could be concealed in a car.
I guess to save on maintenance, these same rules will be applied to all of Curry's demolition lawns too? Will make for some pretty drab parks. Doing things on the cheap... that's the Jacksonville way?
This is nuts. This type of thinking is why Downtown Jax is the way it is and most of our peers are not.
Quote from: Tacachale on June 10, 2020, 08:07:46 AM
This is nuts. This type of thinking is why Downtown Jax is the way it is and most of our peers are not.
Oh, come on. This is a public art installation in front of a courthouse several blocks away from the attractive businesses of Downtown, not a courtyard fronted by cafe's and bars. Even the Federal courthouse, which is right next to Hemming Plaza and several actual cafe's and restaurants, doesn't get used as some sort of gathering place.
^This was actually intended to be a center piece of an area surrounded by shops, cafe's, businesses, etc. That was one of the main reasons for building the courthouse in this particular location in the first place. Regardless of what it is, it is pretty dumb to not have any trees on any part of the property or benches for people to sit, claim these as security risks but then want to construct a public street right past the front door.
Quote from: Peter Griffin on June 10, 2020, 09:40:44 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on June 10, 2020, 08:07:46 AM
This is nuts. This type of thinking is why Downtown Jax is the way it is and most of our peers are not.
Oh, come on. This is a public art installation in front of a courthouse several blocks away from the attractive businesses of Downtown, not a courtyard fronted by cafe's and bars. Even the Federal courthouse, which is right next to Hemming Plaza and several actual cafe's and restaurants, doesn't get used as some sort of gathering place.
If you just viewed the current proposal in a vacuum, then I can see how you reach that conclusion.
However, the planning of the Courthouse goes back about two decades. It was sold as the centerpiece that would kickstart development in and around LaVilla. The City still owns several parcels surrounding the Courthouse, which were bought as a speculative play to later be flipped to private developers. About half of those parcels remain empty today, and the other half is where JEA will be building a new headquarters building (in effect, no private development has occurred on those sites).
The site was in fact supposed to feature 'a courtyard fronted by cafe's and bars'.
The planning of a square that integrates successfully into complementary land uses goes back to around 2005/2006 when the current, sprawling, super-block-style design was selected...
in 2008 when the Peyton administration, in the midst of spiraling cost overruns sought alternative site designs (https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-jan-duval-county-courthouse-how-much-is-too-much), see also (https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-jul-urban-infill-a-courthouse-square-for-jacksonville) and see (https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-jun-duval-county-courthouse-still-stumbling-in-the-dark)...
in 2011 when various members of this message board worked hand in hand with JEDC officials to successfully lobby against the construction of what would become a six-lane roadway fronting the courthouse (https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-jan-courthouse-asphalt-or-green-space-the-choice-is-yours) and (https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-oct-rebuild-monroe-street-why-bother)...
and from 2012-2014 when public officials from judges, project managers (Sam Mousa) and City Councilman tried 're-allocating' the public art set-aside to pay for everything from construction cost overruns, paintings of judges to be hung inside the Courthouse, brass light holders for the State's Attorneys office, last minute upgrades to a fire alarm system that didn't function (fire marshal wouldn't sign off on the occupancy certificate until that was fixed), landscaping for Metro Park and roadway construction. Those efforts were stopped by various staff and board members of the Cultural Council and by then-Councilman Crescimbeni (who is now working for DIA, and is apparently now wanting for Monroe Street to be rebuilt).
This is typical of Downtown Jacksonville. Dumb plans, massive amounts of money being spent in the absolute wrong ways, monkey business throughout the process, and spending decades flip-flopping around and not following through with plans... and never, ever adhering to the advice of qualified design professionals or from any real estate professional that doesn't directly financially benefit from a golden goose from the government.
I mean, this roadway construction argument has been going on for more then a DECADE, with still no end in sight.
The City of Jacksonville is an absolute horrible landlord, a consistently failing real estate developer and an even worse property manager.
This was a conceptual plan by the JEDC in 2012. It included trees:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1153736986_b48eV-M.jpg)
Quote from: fieldafm on June 10, 2020, 10:34:28 AM
The City of Jacksonville is an absolute horrible landlord, a consistently failing real estate developer and an even worse property manager.
This (and not the real estate market) is and has been downtown's largest revitalization obstacle. If this and just about everything else will naturally fall in line.
Evidently Broward County missed the boat. Here's the public space planned at the Broward County Courthouse that's currently under construction in DT Fort Lauderdale:
(http://www.cartayaandassociates.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/BCCH-Plaza.jpg)
(http://www.cartayaandassociates.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/BCCH-Overall1.jpg)
http://www.cartayaandassociates.com/projects/broward-county-garage/
I understand the sentiment to put in trees, shrubs, benches and the like, but in order to be in keeping with the remainder of the DT landscape, wouldn't desolate and empty be more consistent? I mean we are always saying we need to stop trying to look just like South Florida.
Some scabby concrete chunks mixed in with the grass would be appropriate, though. Perhaps some could be relocated from other parcels in LaVilla?
Quote from: marcuscnelson on June 09, 2020, 10:43:30 AM
Quote from: Steve on June 09, 2020, 10:02:10 AM
Quote
Trees could block the view for surveillance cameras and long-term seating could make it possible for someone to wait to confront someone else entering or leaving the courthouse, a victim of domestic violence, for example, he said.
Permanent seating makes it easier to wait to confront someone!? So if I was hellbent on confronting someone I'd come there, realize there's no seating, then because of that make a better choice!?
Actually, I get it. Standing around can be tiring, and it might give a chance for someone to change their mind. And, if someone is standing around outside stewing to themselves it might give security time to come out and ask what's going on.
Obviously, if someone is genuinely hellbent on doing that, then nothing will stop them, but there's a lot of space before that point where intervention might be possible.
So they can wait inside the Air Conditioned Courthouse. There are places to sit all over that building.
I seem to stand corrected. It appears that no one actually follows that logic anywhere else with a courthouse, and some really impressive public spaces have been built around them.
Quote from: Steve on June 09, 2020, 10:00:42 AM
Well, this project just took a fantastically ridiculous turn:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/courthouse-public-art-project-takes-step-forward
• No trees may be planted.
• No water features.
• No long-term seating.
• The landscape must be easily maintained using only lawnmowers, leaf blowers and pressure washing.
• The site plan must allow for possible future restoration of Monroe Street between Pearl and Julia streets, along Adams Street and the south side of the courthouse.
THAT sucks!
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/cultural-council-postpones-decision-on-courthouse-art-project
These are silly restrictions that should definitely be pushed back on before any money is spent. There should be compromises that can be made that achieves the objectives of multiple perspectives. For example, there are already trees paralleling sidewalks along Adams, Pearl and Broad. Like the Nashville courthouse, if security is a concern, one compromise could be to identify areas on the perimeter of the space where certain types of trees could be planted. If COJ doesn't want to maintain anything other than grass, there should be opportunities for non profits, corporations, volunteer groups, etc. to maintain certain elements. Memorial Park in Riverside and Balis Park in San Marco are good example of this.
QuoteAnother restriction included in the stakeholders' recommendation is that the design must account for the possible restoration of Monroe Street along the front of the courthouse.
"Nobody wants the roadway," but the DIA needs the option to restore that portion of Monroe Street to convince the Florida Department of Transportation to approve converting Adams Street from one-way to two-way traffic, said Glenn Weiss, Cultural Council public art program director.
This quote from the article was puzzling to me. Why would FDOT care? Neither Adams nor Monroe are FDOT facilities. If Adams were a FDOT facility, the two-way conversation would be with FDOT and not led by COJ or the DIA. Adams also has an AADT of less than 6,000 cars a day. These days, FDOT 's roadway design criteria is more multimodal friendly than COJ's. Chapter 126 of the FDOT Design Manual states that four-lane undivided FDOT facilities with an AADT of less than 20,000 cars a day are generally good candidates for lane diets. Two-waying Adams would essentially be a lane diet but it is no where close to that number. Heck, only two Northbank streets are. State and Union, both of which are well above it. So technically speaking, this is something that should be easy to push back on as well.
The Harrell and Harrell splash fountain! :)
"We soak the other guys!"
And, to Lake's point about Monroe Street and Adams Street - I wondered why FDOT would care. The only place they even touch FDOT roads are at the I-95 ramps and Main/Ocean Street. I call Red Herring by DIA (or whoever invoked them).
Quote from: thelakelander on June 11, 2020, 09:50:36 AM
There should be compromises that can be made that achieves the objectives of multiple perspectives.
What does this sentence even mean? What objectives could possibly be so pertinent as to require community involvement for an art installation outside of a courthouse? This area is boring and doesn't warrant being focused on in the context of Downtown Jacksonville. You can show me pics of other cities all you want, but nothing changes the fact that these blocks of DT Jax are uninspiring.
Quote from: thelakelander on June 11, 2020, 09:50:36 AM
there should be opportunities for non profits, corporations, volunteer groups, etc. to maintain certain elements. Memorial Park in Riverside and Balis Park in San Marco are good example of this.
Those areas are pedestrian hotspots with lots of dining, bars, shops, and general niceties that people actually like to congregate in and care about. Nobody cares about the courthouse after the courthouse closes. Even when it's OPEN who would want to hang out here?
Gotta pick your battles. There are areas of DT that deserve attention and can be clustered, this isn't one of them. Let the city pay for an art installation. Allowing trees and seating in front of the courthouse would do little to nothing to help revitalize Downtown. Let's try to focus near Laura St and Bay, like the Elbow, not here
Quote from: Peter Griffin on June 11, 2020, 11:03:17 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on June 11, 2020, 09:50:36 AM
There should be compromises that can be made that achieves the objectives of multiple perspectives.
What does this sentence even mean? What objectives could possibly be so pertinent as to require community involvement for an art installation outside of a courthouse?
This is why professional planning and some knowledge of how we've got to this point in time, is important. Community involvement on public projects being funded with community money should be the most important aspect of any project involving public space. Also, art comes in the form of many things. It doesn't have to be a static art installation. It can also be interactive that attracts diverse amounts of people to the space. I know we all don't agree on everything but spending +$600k on static art would be a huge waste IMO and doesn't fully jive with the original intent.
As for what compromise means, it is pretty evident from previous meetings and the identified restrictions that there are competing perspectives for what this space should become. However, an either or solution should not rule the day. I believe you can create a space that is secure and adequately maintained that can include pedestrian friendly features like trees without compromising safety. I believe you can two-way Adams without spending an additional million or more on constructing a street through the green space. The Nashville courthouse is a great example of a design that merges the two perspectives. You'll see that it is open near the courthouse, yet features trees and pedestrian friendly amenities on the edge of the space.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-qFVNHKD/0/O/i-qFVNHKD-O.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-6qdDpkd/0/O/i-6qdDpkd-O.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-6hnFrsj/0/O/i-6hnFrsj-O.jpg)
QuoteThis area is boring and doesn't warrant being focused on in the context of Downtown Jacksonville. You can show me pics of other cities all you want, but nothing changes the fact that these blocks of DT Jax are uninspiring.
It wasn't always boring. It was actually pretty vibrant and is very historically significant in terms of local African American, music and civil rights history. Much of that was largely erased due to systemic racism, ignorance and a lack of respect for history, culture and heritage of the LaVilla. Yet, given that history and heritage, with vision and coordination, we can bring this section of downtown back to life. To do that, selling Peter Griffin isn't exactly required but it is important for those who do care, to adovcate for something better instead of accepting status quo.
QuoteQuote from: thelakelander on June 11, 2020, 09:50:36 AM
there should be opportunities for non profits, corporations, volunteer groups, etc. to maintain certain elements. Memorial Park in Riverside and Balis Park in San Marco are good example of this.
Those areas are pedestrian hotspots with lots of dining, bars, shops, and general niceties that people actually like to congregate in and care about. Nobody cares about the courthouse after the courthouse closes. Even when it's OPEN who would want to hang out here?
(https://photos.smugmug.com/2020-protests/6-7-2020-protest-march/i-gshSMRv/0/724e3cdb/L/IMG_0525_heic-L.jpg)
Actually, there is retail facing this park. The entire bottom of the courthouse parking garage is filled with restaurants and cafes. I've actually eaten in them several times over the years during my lunch breaks, when working out of my downtown office.
(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/JEA-Headquarters-Final-DDRB-Approval/i-hvDrvV3/0/4286761a/L/20191212_DDRB%20AGENDA%20PACKET_Page_134-L.jpg)
JEA is also preparing to construct a new structure facing this space. I understand you don't care about pretty pictures but this is still planned to break ground next month. So you have an immediate opportunity to interactively connect with pedestrian friendly uses on the east and south side of the street.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Neighborhoods/LaVilla-Blues-District-December-2017/i-wmKrbg9/0/93b11024/L/20190105_120645-L.jpg)
Then you have Broad, which is the old black business district of Jax and a place with significant civil rights, jazz and blues history. It's also a major BRT line with a BRT stop at the park. This stretch represents a great spot for placemaking and there some efforts already underway to do this.
QuoteGotta pick your battles. There are areas of DT that deserve attention and can be clustered, this isn't one of them. Let the city pay for an art installation. Allowing trees and seating in front of the courthouse would do little to nothing to help revitalize Downtown. Let's try to focus near Laura St and Bay, like the Elbow, not here
You're right about picking battles. The things mentioned above is why this is one battle that may be worthwhile. Not to mention this is Adams Street, the one east-west street through the Northbank that has a chance to be the most pedestrian friendly and continuously lined with restaurants and retail between the courthouse and Ocean Street. Plus, no one is talking about moving heaven and earth. We're literally talking about how to incorporate some landscaping other than grass, planting a few trees and keeping ourselves from burning a million on a road that isn't needed.
Quote from: thelakelander on June 11, 2020, 09:58:46 AM
QuoteAnother restriction included in the stakeholders' recommendation is that the design must account for the possible restoration of Monroe Street along the front of the courthouse.
"Nobody wants the roadway," but the DIA needs the option to restore that portion of Monroe Street to convince the Florida Department of Transportation to approve converting Adams Street from one-way to two-way traffic, said Glenn Weiss, Cultural Council public art program director.
This quote from the article was puzzling to me. Why would FDOT care? Neither Adams nor Monroe are FDOT facilities. If Adams were a FDOT facility, the two-way conversation would be with FDOT and not led by COJ or the DIA. Adams also has an AADT of less than 6,000 cars a day. These days, FDOT 's roadway design criteria is more multimodal friendly than COJ's. Chapter 126 of the FDOT Design Manual states that four-lane undivided FDOT facilities with an AADT of less than 20,000 cars a day are generally good candidates for lane diets. Two-waying Adams would essentially be a lane diet but it is no where close to that number. Heck, only two Northbank streets are. State and Union, both of which are well above it. So technically speaking, this is something that should be easy to push back on as well.
Does it have anything to do with the Monroe St. ramp from I-95? I remember when they rebuilt that thing only for COJ to cut it off.
Personally, I wasn't thrilled they cut off Monroe St, but it's done now.
Can't imagine FDOT seriously caring. This is seven blocks east of that interchange and there's a compact city grid of streets. We're talking about a street with less than 6,000 cars a day (Adams) and another with less than 4,000 (Monroe). DT Jax is pretty dead from a traffic perspective. Heck, there's no reason for Monroe to be three lanes one-way. It needs a lane diet and two-way conversion of its own.
Once the other streets around the Courthouse are made 2-way, navigating around it will be easier, even without Monroe Street.
Quote from: Charles Hunter on June 11, 2020, 01:26:12 PM
Once the other streets around the Courthouse are made 2-way, navigating around it will be easier, even without Monroe Street.
Does Broad remain one way? I mean, not the end of the world since it's only one block to Jefferson, but curious.
If Duval (another super low volume street) were two-way, it resolves any concern about extending Monroe through the space.
I'm assuming long term we convert everything to two way except State and Union, and maybe not Ocean, Main, Broad, and Jefferson. No reason anything else needs to be two way.
Personally, I'd love to do everything except State and Union, but I'm guessing those other 4 will create some heartburn.
You'll need some people in some positions to retire. You'll also need local roadway design standards to catch up with the FDOT design criteria (I think this is slowly happening now). This stuff isn't rocket science and compared to vibrant cities with people in their downtowns, DT Jax is just about as dead as it comes from a traffic perspective. Ultimately, it isn't FDOT stopping DT Jax from two-waying city maintained facilities in downtown. That's totally in the control of COJ and the DIA.
Btw, I just got off a conference call regarding a lane elimination project I'm working on. This one connects I-4 in downtown Orlando with the Milk District on a four lane undivided with an AADT of 18,500 (way more than the 5,700 on Adams and the 3,100 on Monroe). It happens to be a FDOT facility (SR 526) but through coordination with the City of Orlando will become a two lane with spot landscaped medians, mid-block crossings and a separated two-way cycle track. The plan is to coordinate the project through a resurfacing job coming up. If you can accomplish revamps on FDOT streets carrying three times as much of traffic in cities across the state, we can certainly do it on local streets that don't need FDOT approval and without having to build new alternative streets.
http://www.cflroads.com/asset/file/2833/2017-05-20_Exec_Summary_final_pdf
The Cultural Council has put out a "Call to Artists"
Quote
Call to Artists: Due Sept 22, 2020
On August 12, 2020, the Art in Public Places Committee approved the Call to Artists for the Duval County Courthouse Plaza and appointed the Art Selection Panel.
https://www.culturalcouncil.org/duval-county-courthouse1.html
The artists must live within these restrictions (slides 10 and 14 of presentation link on the linked page):
- No New Trees
- Reserved Space for Monroe Street (Single Lane, 25-foot ROW)
- No Water Features
- No Longterm Seating
- Easily Maintained by Lawn Mower, Leaf Blowing and Pressure Washing
- Video Security - new cameras, preserve sightlines
- Physical Security - swift cart access to all locations, bollards between public streets and hardscape
- Public Gathering and Freedom of Speech
- Public Drop Off - along 2-way Adams Street
Why Adams Street?
The slide show gives examples of plazas in other places. Not all of them seem to meet all of the restrictions.
So this will be a place that you can take a picture of but not use. Fantastic use of money.
Quote from: Charles Hunter on August 20, 2020, 12:16:28 PM
The Cultural Council has put out a "Call to Artists"
Quote
Call to Artists: Due Sept 22, 2020
On August 12, 2020, the Art in Public Places Committee approved the Call to Artists for the Duval County Courthouse Plaza and appointed the Art Selection Panel.
https://www.culturalcouncil.org/duval-county-courthouse1.html
The artists must live within these restrictions (slides 10 and 14 of presentation link on the linked page):
- No New Trees
- Reserved Space for Monroe Street (Single Lane, 25-foot ROW)
- No Water Features
- No Longterm Seating
- Easily Maintained by Lawn Mower, Leaf Blowing and Pressure Washing
- Video Security - new cameras, preserve sightlines
- Physical Security - swift cart access to all locations, bollards between public streets and hardscape
- Public Gathering and Freedom of Speech
- Public Drop Off - along 2-way Adams Street
Why Adams Street?
The slide show gives examples of plazas in other places. Not all of them seem to meet all of the restrictions.
After following all these rules, that mostly leaves spray painting the lawn as the only option available. Oops, has to be easily maintainable. Let's replace the lawn with colored sections of AstroTurf! How do you go vertical and not impact sight-lines for security cameras, to start?
Why bother?
Quote from: Steve on August 20, 2020, 12:25:11 PM
So this will be a place that you can take a picture of but not use. Fantastic use of money.
All about the 'gram, bro.
#gramlife
#igersjax
#ig4eva
Quote from: avonjax on August 20, 2020, 01:01:25 PM
Why bother?
Seriously, with these rules just take the $650k or whatever is in the budget and do something else.
and people wonder why most of downtown remains a ghost town. 95% of downtown's issues are self inflicted.
Quote from: avonjax on August 20, 2020, 01:01:25 PM
Why bother?
Exactly! Too many restrictions and too much "red tape."
Quote from: thelakelander on August 20, 2020, 02:21:13 PM
and people wonder why most of downtown remains a ghost town. 95% of downtown's issues are self inflicted.
You can in large part thank non-creative leaders and leadership for that as well. They hate earning their paycheck.
It describes Lenny's Lawn. You don't have to envision it. You can get a sneak peak of what we are going to get by looking at the Jacksonville Landing site.
The winning design is getting announced on June 1st at 9am on the courthouse lawn.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/design-for-duval-county-courthouse-art-project-to-be-announced-june-1
Not sure how much they're going to do with requirements like
QuoteNo trees may be planted, no water features or long-term seating may be installed and any landscaping in the design must be easily maintained with lawn mowers, leaf blowers and pressure washing.
Not sure how you can even spend $619k at that point, but I guess we'll find out.
I'd be interested to see what they come up with. Especially Walter Hood.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/photo-gallery/these-truths-selected-as-art-for-the-duval-county-courthouse
Renderings show a re-build of Monroe Street (which I imagine would only be a service road).
I actually like it... The road part makes no sense to me but the sculpture and public space might work well...
Of course my artistic tastes are admittedly rudimentary... :)
At this point, rebuilding Monroe Street in front of the Courthouse seems pointless. We have lived this long without it, why waste money putting it back. And, if, as they say, they are concerned about security, having the street that close to the face of the building can't be a good thing. Finally, putting in the street with the curvy pathway is just not a great design for a downtown street. It would be much better leaving it as green space.
As to the park's overall design, I am fine with the sculptures. But, it is clear that all the limitations put on the design make this an overall uninspiring space, especially with the absence of benches, significant shade trees, other landscaping and water features and the amount of paving relative to green space. I imagine this space will be very uncomfortable on a summer afternoon. My guess is most people will quickly walk through the space - there won't be a whole lot of "lingering" but I guess that was their intention. Mission accomplished.
(https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/sites/default/files/styles/sliders_and_planned_story_image_870x580/public/342044_standard.jpeg?itok=e3oO6DKc)
We'll have to play the long term game with this one. My hope would be after a few people die out or move on to other endeavors, that this will be a space where more trees and amenities can be added. In the meantime, we'll need to keep a street from being built there. It's more of a security risk than trees, benches or plants would ever be.
^ LOL. Ennis, care to name who needs to die? Need their ages so I can make a tickler file to check back in on them. ;D Maybe we can plant a tree in this park in honor of each of the deceased just to have the last word.
I thought we went through this with Monroe cutting through a few years ago. It was a terrible idea then and it is a terrible idea now. Those are not sculptures. They seem like some strange propaganda graphic design installments.
I'd rather have Detroit's Fist right in the middle of the green, punching towards the courthouse doors.
Quote from: Papa33 on June 01, 2021, 02:18:54 PM
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/photo-gallery/these-truths-selected-as-art-for-the-duval-county-courthouse
Renderings show a re-build of Monroe Street (which I imagine would only be a service road).
Nice...but I am really, and in general not amused; but yeah, nice.