Quote from: Steve on October 16, 2019, 12:36:35 PM
Quote from: Kerry on October 16, 2019, 06:45:15 AM
I remember when this project was first announced....5 years ago.
But hey....good to have you back! I was wondering if you said, screw this place and moved to OKC permanently! I strangely missed the whole, "Find the negative in holding the winning lottery ticket," viewpoint.
How many Shipyard and Berkman II groups have there been? If this building is only on its 2nd proposal we have a long way to go.
Kidding aside, it would be nice for something to get done but until we put together a couple of things in a row successfully, I'll remain pessimistic.
We went on vacation for awhile to Seattle and Victoria, BC. It served as a reminder of how far we have to go. It is funny though, my wife never gave much thought to walkable urbanism, or the urban lifestyle in general until the last 2 years. While using our City Pass in Seattle the conversation went like this:
Wife: We should have something like this in Jax.
Me: Good idea, but what attractions would we put on them?
Wife: Ummm. Okay, never mind.
Quote from: Kerry on October 17, 2019, 04:26:51 PM
Wife: We should have something like this in Jax.
Me: Good idea, but what attractions would we put on them?
Wife: Ummm. Okay, never mind.
1. MOCA Jacksonville.
2. Cummer Museum.
3. Jacksonville Zoo.
4. MOSH.
5. St. Augustine Alligator Farm.
6. Jumbo Shrimp game.
7. Ritz.
8. Catty Shack Ranch.
9. Tour at White Oak Conservation.
10. Maybe a shuttle to a park or two.
That's already more than what you can get for $109 in Tampa Bay (https://www.citypass.com/tampa).
Quote from: Tacachale on October 17, 2019, 05:01:51 PM
Quote from: Kerry on October 17, 2019, 04:26:51 PM
Wife: We should have something like this in Jax.
Me: Good idea, but what attractions would we put on them?
Wife: Ummm. Okay, never mind.
1. MOCA Jacksonville.
2. Cummer Museum.
3. Jacksonville Zoo.
4. MOSH.
5. St. Augustine Alligator Farm.
6. Jumbo Shrimp game.
7. Ritz.
8. Catty Shack Ranch.
9. Tour at White Oak Conservation.
10. Maybe a shuttle to a park or two.
That's already more than what you can get for $109 in Tampa Bay (https://www.citypass.com/tampa).
To break that down:
1. MOCA Jacksonville : $8 per adult, $5 for kids.
2. Cummer Museum : $10 per adult, $6 for kids.
3. Jacksonville Zoo : $20 per adult/teenager, $15 for kids.
4. MOSH : $15 per adult, $12 for kids.
5. St. Augustine Alligator Farm : $26 per adult/teenager; $16 for kids.
6. Jumbo Shrimp game : Cheap tickets are $7.
7. Ritz : $8 per adult; $5 per kid.
8. Catty Shack Ranch : $10 per adult, $5 for kids.
9. Tour at White Oak Conservation : $100 per adult; $50 for kids.
10. Maybe a shuttle to a park or two : cost would vary.
Even if you cut it down to 5 or 6 and axed White Oak, say, $50 or $60 would be a good value to see a bunch of cool stuff over the course of a week (or month or whatever it is), with nary a lameass theme park or Ripleys attraction among them. Actually, this is a pretty good idea. Why isn't this a thing?
Quote from: Kerry on October 17, 2019, 04:26:51 PM
We went on vacation for awhile to Seattle and Victoria, BC. It served as a reminder of how far we have to go. It is funny though, my wife never gave much thought to walkable urbanism, or the urban lifestyle in general until the last 2 years.
Seattle obviously has Microsoft and Amazon headquartered there, so have lots of high paying jobs. Victoria, and Vancouver, have recently had a big influx of wealthy Chinese buying homes in the area. Good luck getting Lenny to invite any Chinese here (unless Shad Khan asks him to).
https://vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/douglas-todd-new-immigrants-vancouver-houses-worth-824000-more (https://vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/douglas-todd-new-immigrants-vancouver-houses-worth-824000-more)
Quote from: Tacachale on October 17, 2019, 05:19:21 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on October 17, 2019, 05:01:51 PM
Quote from: Kerry on October 17, 2019, 04:26:51 PM
Wife: We should have something like this in Jax.
Me: Good idea, but what attractions would we put on them?
Wife: Ummm. Okay, never mind.
1. MOCA Jacksonville.
2. Cummer Museum.
3. Jacksonville Zoo.
4. MOSH.
5. St. Augustine Alligator Farm.
6. Jumbo Shrimp game.
7. Ritz.
8. Catty Shack Ranch.
9. Tour at White Oak Conservation.
10. Maybe a shuttle to a park or two.
That's already more than what you can get for $109 in Tampa Bay (https://www.citypass.com/tampa).
To break that down:
1. MOCA Jacksonville : $8 per adult, $5 for kids.
2. Cummer Museum : $10 per adult, $6 for kids.
3. Jacksonville Zoo : $20 per adult/teenager, $15 for kids.
4. MOSH : $15 per adult, $12 for kids.
5. St. Augustine Alligator Farm : $26 per adult/teenager; $16 for kids.
6. Jumbo Shrimp game : Cheap tickets are $7.
7. Ritz : $8 per adult; $5 per kid.
8. Catty Shack Ranch : $10 per adult, $5 for kids.
9. Tour at White Oak Conservation : $100 per adult; $50 for kids.
10. Maybe a shuttle to a park or two : cost would vary.
Even if you cut it down to 5 or 6 and axed White Oak, say, $50 or $60 would be a good value to see a bunch of cool stuff over the course of a week (or month or whatever it is), with nary a lameass theme park or Ripleys attraction among them. Actually, this is a pretty good idea. Why isn't this a thing?
We actually went down the list while talking about it. Yes - MOCA, MOSH, and the Zoo are doable and probably the water taxi - and honestly, there absolutely should be a single pass for those. As for the rest, Cummer is free on a regular basis so good luck selling a ticket to something that is available for free. Jumbo Shrimp games aren't doable for a number of reasons and honestly, no one is coming to Jax to see a Jumbo Shrimp game. I would exclude anything NOT in Jax since the goal is to increase tourism here, not in St Augustine.
This is what $99 gets you in Seattle
1 Space Needle
2 Seattle Aquarium
3 Argosy Cruises Harbor Tour
4 Museum of Pop Culture (MoPOP) or Woodland Park Zoo
5 Chihuly Garden and Glass or Pacific Science Center
Anyhow, I think I derailed this thread.
I didn't think the Space Needle was that great (Smith Tower is better), and I didn't go to Seattle to see the Chihuly Garden, but i was in the neighborhood so why not. People probably aren't going to come to Jax for the Jumbo Shrimp, but if you buy the city pass and see that one of the best and highest attended Southern League teams plays here, you may check it out.
As for our city pass, I'd add the arboretum & beaches history museum too.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on October 18, 2019, 09:33:52 AM
I didn't think the Space Needle was that great (Smith Tower is better), and I didn't go to Seattle to see the Chihuly Garden, but i was in the neighborhood so why not. People probably aren't going to come to Jax for the Jumbo Shrimp, but if you buy the city pass and see that one of the best and highest attended Southern League teams plays here, you may check it out.
As for our city pass, I'd add the arboretum & beaches history museum too.
The problem with the Jumbo Shrimp is that they don't play every day. You would have people paying for an attraction that is closed far more often than it is open due to the off season, away games, and days off. To be included in some kind of pass attractions need to be open and available everyday. The Arboretum and Beaches Museum are free - again, no one is going to buy a City Pass for something that is already free.
As for Chihuly Gardens - lots of people do go there to see it. It is a major Seattle attraction featured prominently on all Seattle visitor marketing material.
Sounds like Jax's main problem might be that so many things are free. Riverwalk, Sally Museum tours, friendship fountain, art walk, arboretum, beaches museum, cummer on tuesday, Moca on art walk.....
Love the free stuff. DC and St. Louis are two favorite cities of mine because of the large amount of free attractions they have. Here, I'd add Kingsley Plantation and Fort Caroline National Memorial to the list of free quality places worth visiting.
Did we just get negged into some good ideas? ;D
TIAA Bank Field Tours and the Jacksonville Walking Tours. ( the downtown one and the top to bottom one)
Quote from: Captain Zissou on October 18, 2019, 11:40:23 AM
Sounds like Jax's main problem might be that so many things are free. Riverwalk, Sally Museum tours, friendship fountain, art walk, arboretum, beaches museum, cummer on tuesday, Moca on art walk.....
That actually might be a bigger problem than you think. One of the reason Jax has a cultural attraction deficit could be because private non-profit and for-profit groups can't compete with 'free'. Florida Blue and others provide free admission to Cummer but maybe they should spend that money on delivering higher quality traveling exhibits and then charge us full price to see them.
As it is, anyone paying to go to the Cummer is wasting money. It is free on a regular basis.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*College Students with ID enjoy free admission Tuesday through Friday, 11 a.m. to 4 p.m.
Free admission for all, each Tuesday, 4 p.m. to 9 p.m. Sponsored by Florida Blue.
Free admission for all, each Friday, 4 p.m. to 9 p.m. Sponsored by PNC Bank.
Free admission for all the first Saturday of each month, 11 a.m. to 4 p.m. Sponsored by J. Wayne and Delores Barr Weaver.
Free admission for Bank of America and Merrill Lynch cardholders the first full weekend of each month, provided by Museums on Us.
Free admission for military families Armed Forces Day (May 18) through Labor Day, offered though the Blue Star Museum program.
Quote from: Kerry on October 18, 2019, 05:27:39 PM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on October 18, 2019, 11:40:23 AM
Sounds like Jax's main problem might be that so many things are free. Riverwalk, Sally Museum tours, friendship fountain, art walk, arboretum, beaches museum, cummer on tuesday, Moca on art walk.....
That actually might be a bigger problem than you think. One of the reason Jax has a cultural attraction deficit could be because private non-profit and for-profit groups can't compete with 'free'. Florida Blue and others provide free admission to Cummer but maybe they should spend that money on delivering higher quality traveling exhibits and then charge us full price to see them.
As it is, anyone paying to go to the Cummer is wasting money. It is free on a regular basis.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*College Students with ID enjoy free admission Tuesday through Friday, 11 a.m. to 4 p.m.
Free admission for all, each Tuesday, 4 p.m. to 9 p.m. Sponsored by Florida Blue.
Free admission for all, each Friday, 4 p.m. to 9 p.m. Sponsored by PNC Bank.
Free admission for all the first Saturday of each month, 11 a.m. to 4 p.m. Sponsored by J. Wayne and Delores Barr Weaver.
Free admission for Bank of America and Merrill Lynch cardholders the first full weekend of each month, provided by Museums on Us.
Free admission for military families Armed Forces Day (May 18) through Labor Day, offered though the Blue Star Museum program.
The Cummer gets some pretty damn good exhibits as it is. When I go to the Cummer I usually donate even if it is free. Not sure I'd want to trade free days though. It's also not true that we have a "cultural attraction deficit" for a city of this size, even just looking at this list. Space needle deficit, sure.
Quote from: Tacachale on October 18, 2019, 05:37:04 PM
Quote from: Kerry on October 18, 2019, 05:27:39 PM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on October 18, 2019, 11:40:23 AM
Sounds like Jax's main problem might be that so many things are free. Riverwalk, Sally Museum tours, friendship fountain, art walk, arboretum, beaches museum, cummer on tuesday, Moca on art walk.....
That actually might be a bigger problem than you think. One of the reason Jax has a cultural attraction deficit could be because private non-profit and for-profit groups can't compete with 'free'. Florida Blue and others provide free admission to Cummer but maybe they should spend that money on delivering higher quality traveling exhibits and then charge us full price to see them.
As it is, anyone paying to go to the Cummer is wasting money. It is free on a regular basis.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*College Students with ID enjoy free admission Tuesday through Friday, 11 a.m. to 4 p.m.
Free admission for all, each Tuesday, 4 p.m. to 9 p.m. Sponsored by Florida Blue.
Free admission for all, each Friday, 4 p.m. to 9 p.m. Sponsored by PNC Bank.
Free admission for all the first Saturday of each month, 11 a.m. to 4 p.m. Sponsored by J. Wayne and Delores Barr Weaver.
Free admission for Bank of America and Merrill Lynch cardholders the first full weekend of each month, provided by Museums on Us.
Free admission for military families Armed Forces Day (May 18) through Labor Day, offered though the Blue Star Museum program.
The Cummer gets some pretty damn good exhibits as it is. When I go to the Cummer I usually donate even if it is free. Not sure I'd want to trade free days though. It's also not true that we have a "cultural attraction deficit" for a city of this size, even just looking at this list. Space needle deficit, sure.
You probably need to get out of Jax more often.
I think the bigger problem is that there are things to do in Jax, but they tend to be spread out over a very large area and there is no real mass transit option to get a tourist from one thing to the next.
It has nothing to go with Jax or a hell of a lot of other places that are just as densely populated and more as the cities on this list. It's likely more to do with CityPass themselves. These are the only cities that's offered in. No Miami, no DC, no Vancouver, no Portland, no Austin, no Montreal....
Atlanta
Boston
Chicago
Dallas
Denver
Houston
New York City
Orlando
Philadelphia
San Francisco
Seattle
Southern California
Tampa Bay
Toronto
https://www.citypass.com/
I've noticed City Pass years ago in Atlanta and have seen it advertised in some of the cities on this list. Despite visiting all of these places several times (excluding Denver), I've never had interest in spending money on it. I've always preferred spending my time exploring the actual cities, their hole in the walls and unique non-touristy places. Every now and then, I'll pay for a specific place on some of their lists, but I'm definitely not blowing my time trying to hit everything on it to get my money's worth out of it. It works for some and it doesn't for others. Just depends on what type of traveler you are and what you're in to. I'm eating breakfast and getting ready to do a free walking tour in Chicago right now. Then I'm going to find me a sports bar and maybe hit the history museum before catching up with some college classmates in the burbs. Skipping CityPass again. I wouldn't hold anything against Jax, Portland, Cincinnati, St. Louis, Baltimore, Miami, New Orleans, Mexico City and host of other interesting places that CityPass doesn't offer their services in.
Quote from: Kerry on October 18, 2019, 11:20:41 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on October 18, 2019, 05:37:04 PM
Quote from: Kerry on October 18, 2019, 05:27:39 PM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on October 18, 2019, 11:40:23 AM
Sounds like Jax's main problem might be that so many things are free. Riverwalk, Sally Museum tours, friendship fountain, art walk, arboretum, beaches museum, cummer on tuesday, Moca on art walk.....
That actually might be a bigger problem than you think. One of the reason Jax has a cultural attraction deficit could be because private non-profit and for-profit groups can't compete with 'free'. Florida Blue and others provide free admission to Cummer but maybe they should spend that money on delivering higher quality traveling exhibits and then charge us full price to see them.
As it is, anyone paying to go to the Cummer is wasting money. It is free on a regular basis.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*College Students with ID enjoy free admission Tuesday through Friday, 11 a.m. to 4 p.m.
Free admission for all, each Tuesday, 4 p.m. to 9 p.m. Sponsored by Florida Blue.
Free admission for all, each Friday, 4 p.m. to 9 p.m. Sponsored by PNC Bank.
Free admission for all the first Saturday of each month, 11 a.m. to 4 p.m. Sponsored by J. Wayne and Delores Barr Weaver.
Free admission for Bank of America and Merrill Lynch cardholders the first full weekend of each month, provided by Museums on Us.
Free admission for military families Armed Forces Day (May 18) through Labor Day, offered though the Blue Star Museum program.
The Cummer gets some pretty damn good exhibits as it is. When I go to the Cummer I usually donate even if it is free. Not sure I'd want to trade free days though. It's also not true that we have a "cultural attraction deficit" for a city of this size, even just looking at this list. Space needle deficit, sure.
You probably need to get out of Jax more often.
I get out of Jax plenty, thanks. You probably need to get to more museums if you find it surprising that some are regularly free.
For a city our size, Jax is holding its own in the culture sphere.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 19, 2019, 08:22:20 AM
It has nothing to go with Jax or a hell of a lot of other places that are just as densely populated and more as the cities on this list. It's likely more to do with CityPass themselves. These are the only cities that's offered in. No Miami, no DC, no Vancouver, no Portland, no Austin, no Montreal....
Atlanta
Boston
Chicago
Dallas
Denver
Houston
New York City
Orlando
Philadelphia
San Francisco
Seattle
Southern California
Tampa Bay
Toronto
https://www.citypass.com/
I've noticed City Pass years ago in Atlanta and have seen it advertised in some of the cities on this list. Despite visiting all of these places several times (excluding Denver), I've never had interest in spending money on it. I've always preferred spending my time exploring the actual cities, their hole in the walls and unique non-touristy places. Every now and then, I'll pay for a specific place on some of their lists, but I'm definitely not blowing my time trying to hit everything on it to get my money's worth out of it. It works for some and it doesn't for others. Just depends on what type of traveler you are and what you're in to. I'm eating breakfast and getting ready to do a free walking tour in Chicago right now. Then I'm going to find me a sports bar and maybe hit the history museum before catching up with some college classmates in the burbs. Skipping CityPass again. I wouldn't hold anything against Jax, Portland, Cincinnati, St. Louis, Baltimore, Miami, New Orleans, Mexico City and host of other interesting places that CityPass doesn't offer their services in.
+100.
I think you are maybe taking the term City Pass to literal. While yes there is a specific brand called City Pass, the concept is just a multi-ticket discount product. Call it a JaxPass if it makes you happy but the fact remains except for the zoo, MOSH, and the water taxi - everything else is free on a regular basis.
Quote from: Kerry on October 19, 2019, 01:37:33 PM
I think you are maybe taking the term City Pass to literal. While yes there is a specific brand called City Pass, the concept is just a multi-ticket discount product. Call it a JaxPass if it makes you happy but the fact remains except for the zoo, MOSH, and the water taxi - everything else is free on a regular basis.
Except for those other 8 things I named.
Quote from: Kerry on October 18, 2019, 05:27:39 PM
That actually might be a bigger problem than you think. One of the reason Jax has a cultural attraction deficit could be because private non-profit and for-profit groups can't compete with 'free'. Florida Blue and others provide free admission to Cummer but maybe they should spend that money on delivering higher quality traveling exhibits and then charge us full price to see them.
Free promotes higher attendance, which yields more foundation grants, government grants, and individual donations. Not saying that it's never a problem, but it's not as simple as you state.
Quote from: Kerry on October 18, 2019, 05:27:39 PM
As it is, anyone paying to go to the Cummer is wasting money. It is free on a regular basis.
Lol. I guess you aren't donating to any of these places then.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 19, 2019, 08:22:20 AM
It has nothing to go with Jax or a hell of a lot of other places that are just as densely populated and more as the cities on this list. It's likely more to do with CityPass themselves. These are the only cities that's offered in. No Miami, no DC, no Vancouver, no Portland, no Austin, no Montreal....
I don't think citypass owns the rights to the tourist pass concept. Here in Miami there are actually two passes available.
The Sightseeing Pass: https://www.sightseeingpass.com/en/miami
Go Miami Card: https://gocity.com/miami/en-us
I would suspect many of the cities you mentioned also offer a similar type of discount pass. Actually, I just noticed that both of the above mentioned passes are in Washington DC and NOLA as well...
I guess my point is several cities don't, so I wouldn't necessarily hold it against Jax specifically. We have a lot of things to deal with and overcome and discount passes to a few attractions isn't a major issue, IMO. Especially for a second tier regional city that's more the scale of Grand Rapids than it is the majority of cities mentioned so far.
Which will Jax get first - an attraction pass or bike share?
Quote from: thelakelander on October 19, 2019, 03:58:41 PM
I guess my point is several cities don't, so I wouldn't necessarily hold it against Jax specifically. We have a lot of things to deal with and overcome and discount passes to a few attractions isn't a major issue, IMO. Especially for a second tier regional city that's more the scale of Grand Rapids than it is the majority of cities mentioned so far.
Speaking of Grand Rapids
https://culturepass.experiencegr.com/checkout/142/experience-grand-rapids/471/experience-grand-rapids
Sounds like a great opportunity for you or another budding entrepreneur to put one together for Jax!
This thread used to be about the o Independent Life building.
Oh how far we've come... city passes and inferiority complexes for everyone!
In Jax we could have a "Lenny's Lawns " Tour. If you pay $5 they let you drive on a riding mower and cut a little grass as well.
Quote from: Peter Griffin on October 20, 2019, 08:13:30 AM
This thread used to be about the o Independent Life building.
Oh how far we've come... city passes and inferiority complexes for everyone!
Adapt or die, Peter.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 19, 2019, 11:39:53 PM
Sounds like a great opportunity for you or another budding entrepreneur to put one together for Jax!
The City already has a CVB that should be doing this kind of thing. Kind of makes you wonder what they are really doing with their time and money, or of any of them are even qualified for their positions.
https://www.visitjacksonville.com/about/meet-the-team/
The 5 years ago comment had me thinking I ran across something old and didn't realize it. JDR doesn't have a date on their news article. Luckily WJCT does so this is a new announcement.
https://news.wjct.org/post/developer-plans-turn-downtown-jax-office-building-apartments-grocery
But as was pointed out, this isn't the first time someone's had grand plans for the building.
Quote from: Kerry on October 20, 2019, 10:06:22 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on October 19, 2019, 11:39:53 PM
Sounds like a great opportunity for you or another budding entrepreneur to put one together for Jax!
The City already has a CVB that should be doing this kind of thing. Kind of makes you wonder what they are really doing with their time and money, or of any of them are even qualified for their positions.
https://www.visitjacksonville.com/about/meet-the-team/
JAX has the most non-existent Tourism effort I have ever seen. I have a strong recollection that their funding is really low compared to similar sized cities. Greenville launched a very successful marketing campaign a few years back with great results.
Quote from: Kerry on October 20, 2019, 10:06:22 PM
The City already has a CVB that should be doing this kind of thing. Kind of makes you wonder what they are really doing with their time and money, or of any of them are even qualified for their positions.
Clearly not qualified.
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190101/first-coast-sees-record-number-of-visitors-in-2018
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191001/record-numbers-of-flights-reported-at-jacksonville-international-airport
Quote from: Ken_FSU on October 23, 2019, 09:22:20 AM
Quote from: Kerry on October 20, 2019, 10:06:22 PM
The City already has a CVB that should be doing this kind of thing. Kind of makes you wonder what they are really doing with their time and money, or of any of them are even qualified for their positions.
Clearly not qualified.
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190101/first-coast-sees-record-number-of-visitors-in-2018
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191001/record-numbers-of-flights-reported-at-jacksonville-international-airport
From the first article.
State average increase in tourism: 6.7%
Duval Increase: 1.9%
Quote from: Ken_FSU on October 23, 2019, 09:22:20 AM
Quote from: Kerry on October 20, 2019, 10:06:22 PM
The City already has a CVB that should be doing this kind of thing. Kind of makes you wonder what they are really doing with their time and money, or of any of them are even qualified for their positions.
Clearly not qualified.
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190101/first-coast-sees-record-number-of-visitors-in-2018
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191001/record-numbers-of-flights-reported-at-jacksonville-international-airport
Jacksonville's tourism industry is at a level that in most places would be considered a huge success, even more so when you include St. Johns and Nassau in there. The reason it's not given a lot of thought is that we're dwarfed by what's going on in the rest of the state. I'm cool with that. Gives us a chance to focus on authentic draws rather than the Disneyfied attractions you can get throughout Florida.
Quote from: Tacachale on October 23, 2019, 09:47:09 AM
Quote from: Ken_FSU on October 23, 2019, 09:22:20 AM
Quote from: Kerry on October 20, 2019, 10:06:22 PM
The City already has a CVB that should be doing this kind of thing. Kind of makes you wonder what they are really doing with their time and money, or of any of them are even qualified for their positions.
Clearly not qualified.
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190101/first-coast-sees-record-number-of-visitors-in-2018
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191001/record-numbers-of-flights-reported-at-jacksonville-international-airport
Jacksonville's tourism industry is at a level that in most places would be considered a huge success, even more so when you include St. Johns and Nassau in there. The reason it's not given a lot of thought is that we're dwarfed by what's going on in the rest of the state. I'm cool with that. Gives us a chance to focus on authentic draws rather than the Disneyfied attractions you can get throughout Florida.
No argument - especially when you consider that a portion of the tourism is around golf. While it's popular with people, it's not something that generally helps the downtown area because of the location of the courses people come in from out of town to visit.
Quote from: Steve on October 23, 2019, 09:56:03 AM
No argument - especially when you consider that a portion of the tourism is around golf. While it's popular with people, it's not something that generally helps the downtown area because of the location of the courses people come in from out of town to visit.
Given how long some of the lots have sat vacant downtown, we could have made an urban core golf course. Metro park, shipyards, courthouse lot, landing, main street pocket park for a par 3.....
Quote from: Kerry on October 23, 2019, 09:45:42 AM
Quote from: Ken_FSU on October 23, 2019, 09:22:20 AM
Quote from: Kerry on October 20, 2019, 10:06:22 PM
The City already has a CVB that should be doing this kind of thing. Kind of makes you wonder what they are really doing with their time and money, or of any of them are even qualified for their positions.
Clearly not qualified.
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190101/first-coast-sees-record-number-of-visitors-in-2018
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191001/record-numbers-of-flights-reported-at-jacksonville-international-airport
From the first article.
State average increase in tourism: 6.7%
Duval Increase: 1.9%
IT'S NOT EVEN THE SAME METRIC.
Total visitors to Florida vs. Duval County hotel occupancy rate.
Jacksonville vs. Florida isn't the right comparison either - we're never going to see 1-to-1 tourism gains with Orlando or Miami, and that's fine.
There are some really good people at Visit Jacksonville, with many, many years of experience in the industry, who work as hard as anyone in the city. The financials are publicly available. They're doing a lot with a tight budget. Tourism numbers are empiricially strong.
Get out of here with that linking to their bios and calling them "unqualified" nonsense.
Quote from: Tacachale on October 23, 2019, 09:47:09 AM
Quote from: Ken_FSU on October 23, 2019, 09:22:20 AM
Quote from: Kerry on October 20, 2019, 10:06:22 PM
The City already has a CVB that should be doing this kind of thing. Kind of makes you wonder what they are really doing with their time and money, or of any of them are even qualified for their positions.
Clearly not qualified.
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190101/first-coast-sees-record-number-of-visitors-in-2018
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191001/record-numbers-of-flights-reported-at-jacksonville-international-airport
Jacksonville's tourism industry is at a level that in most places would be considered a huge success, even more so when you include St. Johns and Nassau in there. The reason it's not given a lot of thought is that we're dwarfed by what's going on in the rest of the state. I'm cool with that. Gives us a chance to focus on authentic draws rather than the Disneyfied attractions you can get throughout Florida.
Duval has a 75% hotel occupancy rate. No one anywhere is bragging about that.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on October 23, 2019, 10:06:03 AM
Quote from: Steve on October 23, 2019, 09:56:03 AM
No argument - especially when you consider that a portion of the tourism is around golf. While it's popular with people, it's not something that generally helps the downtown area because of the location of the courses people come in from out of town to visit.
Given how long some of the lots have sat vacant downtown, we could have made an urban core golf course. Metro park, shipyards, courthouse lot, landing, main street pocket park for a par 3.....
Lol, this was actually proposed for downtown at one point.
Quote from: Kerry on October 23, 2019, 10:18:11 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on October 23, 2019, 09:47:09 AM
Quote from: Ken_FSU on October 23, 2019, 09:22:20 AM
Quote from: Kerry on October 20, 2019, 10:06:22 PM
The City already has a CVB that should be doing this kind of thing. Kind of makes you wonder what they are really doing with their time and money, or of any of them are even qualified for their positions.
Clearly not qualified.
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190101/first-coast-sees-record-number-of-visitors-in-2018
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191001/record-numbers-of-flights-reported-at-jacksonville-international-airport
Jacksonville's tourism industry is at a level that in most places would be considered a huge success, even more so when you include St. Johns and Nassau in there. The reason it's not given a lot of thought is that we're dwarfed by what's going on in the rest of the state. I'm cool with that. Gives us a chance to focus on authentic draws rather than the Disneyfied attractions you can get throughout Florida.
Duval has a 75% hotel occupancy rate. No one anywhere is bragging about that.
So do you actually understand this or just wasting space:
https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2019/09/26/heres-how-orlandos-hotel-industry-fared-in-first-8.html
It's behind a paywall, but here's the money quote: "For example, [Central Florida's] hotel occupancy so far for the first eight months of 2019 is averaging 78.1%"
I'm no math expert, but are 75.1% and 78.1% that fundamentally different from one another? Maybe the Central Florida CVB needs to fire their idiots working for them and hire the brilliant minds that work in Oklahoma City. Better yet, since Walt Disney World has a lot of pull with the Central Florida CVB, let's pressure Disney into dumping their people too. I'm sure they're rookies when it comes to marketing.
Look - I'm not a tourism expert: Maybe the people in the Jacksonville CVB are good, maybe they aren't. But, your arguments against these people are about as solid as blaming climate change on a 9-year old who passes gas too much.
BTW, any more news about the old Independent Life Building?
Quote from: Ken_FSU on October 23, 2019, 10:09:12 AM
Quote from: Kerry on October 23, 2019, 09:45:42 AM
Quote from: Ken_FSU on October 23, 2019, 09:22:20 AM
Quote from: Kerry on October 20, 2019, 10:06:22 PM
The City already has a CVB that should be doing this kind of thing. Kind of makes you wonder what they are really doing with their time and money, or of any of them are even qualified for their positions.
Clearly not qualified.
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190101/first-coast-sees-record-number-of-visitors-in-2018
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191001/record-numbers-of-flights-reported-at-jacksonville-international-airport
From the first article.
State average increase in tourism: 6.7%
Duval Increase: 1.9%
IT'S NOT EVEN THE SAME METRIC.
Total visitors to Florida vs. Duval County hotel occupancy rate.
Jacksonville vs. Florida isn't the right comparison either - we're never going to see 1-to-1 tourism gains with Orlando or Miami, and that's fine.
There are some really good people at Visit Jacksonville, with many, many years of experience in the industry, who work as hard as anyone in the city. The financials are publicly available. They're doing a lot with a tight budget. Tourism numbers are empiricially strong.
Get out of here with that linking to their bios and calling them "unqualified" nonsense.
I don't for a moment question the qualifications of the people working at CVB. They probably do a lot with the little they have to work with. But they can only do so much with limited funds.
It would be hard to truly gauge how JAX truly compares because it is a common stop over point for auto travelers. There is nothing wrong with that, but that is a different type of tourism than destination tourism. They probably do a good job of supporting the existing tourism business but to truly boost
destination tourism, you are going to have to spend money on a marketing campaign and ads.
I don't expect JAX to compete with Orlando or Miami, but I think there is a valid reason to compare destination tourism in JAX to destination tourism in places like Charlotte, Birmingham, Indianapolis, Virginia Beach, etc.
For a symptom of what I am saying, IIRC, the CVB hired the Exec. Director of CVB from San Diego or some prominent place. After a year or so of seeing the city was not serious about a real convention center, he left.
Quote from: Kerry on October 23, 2019, 10:18:11 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on October 23, 2019, 09:47:09 AM
Quote from: Ken_FSU on October 23, 2019, 09:22:20 AM
Quote from: Kerry on October 20, 2019, 10:06:22 PM
The City already has a CVB that should be doing this kind of thing. Kind of makes you wonder what they are really doing with their time and money, or of any of them are even qualified for their positions.
Clearly not qualified.
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190101/first-coast-sees-record-number-of-visitors-in-2018
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191001/record-numbers-of-flights-reported-at-jacksonville-international-airport
Jacksonville's tourism industry is at a level that in most places would be considered a huge success, even more so when you include St. Johns and Nassau in there. The reason it's not given a lot of thought is that we're dwarfed by what's going on in the rest of the state. I'm cool with that. Gives us a chance to focus on authentic draws rather than the Disneyfied attractions you can get throughout Florida.
Duval has a 75% hotel occupancy rate. No one anywhere is bragging about that.
Well clearly you're not, but here are some comparable figures:
Hotel occupancy rates from 2018 unless otherwise noted:
Asheville (https://www.ashevillecvb.com/wp-content/uploads/Asheville_STR_2017.pdf) (2017): 65.5%
Greenville (https://www.postandcourier.com/business/real_estate/growing-number-of-business-travelers-give-rise-to-more-downtown/article_0ff2ea08-860d-11e9-a48f-0fe783fcf444.html): 66%
Indianapolis (https://www.bdmd.com/hotel-design-is-changing-the-indianapolis-marketplace-and-boosting-economy/): 70%
Tampa (https://www.visittampabay.com/media/news/post/hillsborough-tourism-smashes-600-million-hotel-revenue-goal/): 74.1%
Nashville (https://www.visitmusiccity.com/research): 75%
Miami (https://www.miamiandbeaches.com/press-room/miami-press-releases/record-tourism-industry-performance-in-2018): 76.7%
Atlanta (http://news.atlanta.net/news/atlanta-sees-record-breaking-hotel-occupancy-at-mid-year) (projected): 77%
Orlando (https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2019/09/26/heres-how-orlandos-hotel-industry-fared-in-first-8.html): 78.1 (2019 YTD)
Charleston (https://www.postandcourier.com/business/latest-hotel-reports-show-strong-tourism-market-in-south-carolina/article_49f507fa-95c1-11e8-a812-8ba4a3bc20e9.html): 78.9%
National average (http://hotelnewsnow.com/Articles/292373/STR-US-hotels-post-another-record-year-in-2018): 66.2%
Obviously we're is in a death spiral.
Quote from: vicupstate on October 23, 2019, 10:53:30 AM
Quote from: Ken_FSU on October 23, 2019, 10:09:12 AM
Quote from: Kerry on October 23, 2019, 09:45:42 AM
Quote from: Ken_FSU on October 23, 2019, 09:22:20 AM
Quote from: Kerry on October 20, 2019, 10:06:22 PM
The City already has a CVB that should be doing this kind of thing. Kind of makes you wonder what they are really doing with their time and money, or of any of them are even qualified for their positions.
Clearly not qualified.
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190101/first-coast-sees-record-number-of-visitors-in-2018
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191001/record-numbers-of-flights-reported-at-jacksonville-international-airport
From the first article.
State average increase in tourism: 6.7%
Duval Increase: 1.9%
IT'S NOT EVEN THE SAME METRIC.
Total visitors to Florida vs. Duval County hotel occupancy rate.
Jacksonville vs. Florida isn't the right comparison either - we're never going to see 1-to-1 tourism gains with Orlando or Miami, and that's fine.
There are some really good people at Visit Jacksonville, with many, many years of experience in the industry, who work as hard as anyone in the city. The financials are publicly available. They're doing a lot with a tight budget. Tourism numbers are empiricially strong.
Get out of here with that linking to their bios and calling them "unqualified" nonsense.
I don't for a moment question the qualifications of the people working at CVB. They probably do a lot with the little they have to work with. But they can only do so much with limited funds.
It would be hard to truly gauge how JAX truly compares because it is a common stop over point for auto travelers. There is nothing wrong with that, but that is a different type of tourism than destination tourism. They probably do a good job of supporting the existing tourism business but to truly boost destination tourism, you are going to have to spend money on a marketing campaign and ads.
I don't expect JAX to compete with Orlando or Miami, but I think there is a valid reason to compare destination tourism in JAX to destination tourism in places like Charlotte, Birmingham, Indianapolis, Virginia Beach, etc.
For a symptom of what I am saying, IIRC, the CVB hired the Exec. Director of CVB from San Diego or some prominent place. After a year or so of seeing the city was not serious about a real convention center, he left.
THAT argument makes WAY more sense to me. At some point, someone in charge of selling a product that doesn't have R&D or strong product development behind it is swimming into the current.
It seems like we should focus more on our product versus focusing on whether the people selling it are doing a good job. Seems like the people selling it are doing about as good of a job as they can with what they have to work with.
Quote from: Tacachale on October 23, 2019, 11:00:42 AM
Quote from: Kerry on October 23, 2019, 10:18:11 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on October 23, 2019, 09:47:09 AM
Quote from: Ken_FSU on October 23, 2019, 09:22:20 AM
Quote from: Kerry on October 20, 2019, 10:06:22 PM
The City already has a CVB that should be doing this kind of thing. Kind of makes you wonder what they are really doing with their time and money, or of any of them are even qualified for their positions.
Clearly not qualified.
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190101/first-coast-sees-record-number-of-visitors-in-2018
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191001/record-numbers-of-flights-reported-at-jacksonville-international-airport
Jacksonville's tourism industry is at a level that in most places would be considered a huge success, even more so when you include St. Johns and Nassau in there. The reason it's not given a lot of thought is that we're dwarfed by what's going on in the rest of the state. I'm cool with that. Gives us a chance to focus on authentic draws rather than the Disneyfied attractions you can get throughout Florida.
Duval has a 75% hotel occupancy rate. No one anywhere is bragging about that.
Well clearly you're not, but here are some comparable figures:
Hotel occupancy rates from 2018 unless otherwise noted:
Asheville (https://www.ashevillecvb.com/wp-content/uploads/Asheville_STR_2017.pdf) (2017): 65.5%
Greenville (https://www.postandcourier.com/business/real_estate/growing-number-of-business-travelers-give-rise-to-more-downtown/article_0ff2ea08-860d-11e9-a48f-0fe783fcf444.html): 66%
Indianapolis (https://www.bdmd.com/hotel-design-is-changing-the-indianapolis-marketplace-and-boosting-economy/): 70%
Tampa (https://www.visittampabay.com/media/news/post/hillsborough-tourism-smashes-600-million-hotel-revenue-goal/): 74.1%
Nashville (https://www.visitmusiccity.com/research): 75%
Miami (https://www.miamiandbeaches.com/press-room/miami-press-releases/record-tourism-industry-performance-in-2018): 76.7%
Atlanta (http://news.atlanta.net/news/atlanta-sees-record-breaking-hotel-occupancy-at-mid-year) (projected): 77%
Orlando (https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2019/09/26/heres-how-orlandos-hotel-industry-fared-in-first-8.html): 78.1 (2019 YTD)
Charleston (https://www.postandcourier.com/business/latest-hotel-reports-show-strong-tourism-market-in-south-carolina/article_49f507fa-95c1-11e8-a812-8ba4a3bc20e9.html): 78.9%
National average (http://hotelnewsnow.com/Articles/292373/STR-US-hotels-post-another-record-year-in-2018): 66.2%
Obviously we're is in a death spiral.
Additionally, while hotel occupancy is an important metric, there's a lot more that goes into it. For example, an interesting anecdotal case study is the hotels in the Sandy Springs, GA (suburb of Atlanta around I-285 and GA-400). If you try to book them Monday-Thursday they can basically charge whatever they want and get it. On the weekends however, the places are ghost towns and you can get room at nicer properties (Westin, Le Meridien, etc.) for around $100/night. It's a major office area so the properties are built for weekday occupancy.
The point is, every metric I've seen is that hotel health in Jacksonville is fairly healthy after being in rough shape for a while.
Can the hijack about the city pass, CVB, and hotel occupancy possibly be moved to a different thread so this one can be reserved for news about the old JEA/Independent Life Building? Thanks.
I'm glad it isn't just me with doubts.
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20180507/tax-collector-corrigan-moving-to-visit-jacksonville
QuoteCorrigan, who has not previously worked in the tourism industry, will take the helm of Visit Jacksonville and its $4.9 million budget at a time when the nonprofit is reporting record-breaking numbers for visitors, and the Downtown Investment Authority is inviting proposals for development of a new convention center.
Visit Jacksonville is the nonprofit agency that has a long-standing city contract to promote business and leisure travel, a mission that has drawn some criticism from City Council members who have questioned whether Jacksonville is keeping up with other cities in the competitive tourism market.
Of course, we know what happened to the Convention Center proposal.
An article on Jax Business Journal behind the pay wall says Corrigan was hired specifically for his political connections. Go figure.
In the last month I've been to Pike Place Market in Seattle and The Municipal Fish Market in Washington DC. There is zero reason why these couldn't be duplicated at The Landing, especially if combined with Beaver Street Farmer Market. All it takes is someone with the right vision and in a place of authority to say, "Hey, we have all these things we just need to put them together in one spot.", and then do it.
So there it is - I have zero, zip, nadda, zilch experience with the tourism industry - except being an actual tourist and getting out of Jax on a regular basis and I've suggested two great ideas (if I do say so myself) - an attraction pass and a riverfront public market. What has the CVB come up with this week?
Anyhow, I think I said all I can to make my point on this subject. I think Jax can do better to develop (emphasis on develop) and promote tourism but I don't think we have the people in place to actually do it nor apparently the budget to do it either.
Hue hue hue I'm a tourist and can rattle off grand ideas almost as quickly I can derail a thread!
Take THAT, Jacksonville leadership! U just got literally PWN3D by Kerry
ePiC WrEcKed! xD jacksonville more like CRINGEsonville! LMAO!!!1
uh oh... somebody pointed out that 75% hotel occupancy is actually a respectable number... BETTER DERAIL THE THREAD EVEN FURTHER!
I went ahead and split this into a thread of its own.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 23, 2019, 12:11:13 PM
I went ahead and split this into a thread of its own.
Kerry is even more powerful than I thought...
Quote from: thelakelander on October 23, 2019, 12:11:13 PM
I went ahead and split this into a thread of its own.
Thanks Lake
I don't know what the share is, but medical tourism is growing in Jacksonville.
Quote
Jacksonville Business Journal - Dec. 27, 2018
"Jacksonville is becoming a destination for health care," said Dr. Robert Wharen, a longtime professor of neurology at Mayo. "There are new businesses coming here and research efforts that are being coordinated through Mayo, like the Jacksonville campus innovation building for lung transplants."
Wharen said that Mayo serves more than 100,000 patients a year and employs 6,000 people. In the last three years, international patients have tripled.
In response, Visit Jacksonville launched a new medical meetings initiative, and is already participating in trade shows, developing medical meetings collateral and advertising in medical meeting publications in preparation.
https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2018/12/27/year-in-review-first-coasts-health-tourism.html
Quote from: Charles Hunter on October 23, 2019, 01:08:18 PM
I don't know what the share is, but medical tourism is growing in Jacksonville.
Quote
Jacksonville Business Journal - Dec. 27, 2018
"Jacksonville is becoming a destination for health care," said Dr. Robert Wharen, a longtime professor of neurology at Mayo. "There are new businesses coming here and research efforts that are being coordinated through Mayo, like the Jacksonville campus innovation building for lung transplants."
Wharen said that Mayo serves more than 100,000 patients a year and employs 6,000 people. In the last three years, international patients have tripled.
In response, Visit Jacksonville launched a new medical meetings initiative, and is already participating in trade shows, developing medical meetings collateral and advertising in medical meeting publications in preparation.
https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2018/12/27/year-in-review-first-coasts-health-tourism.html
I know that story say 2018, but the Visit Jacksonville web site says their Medical Tourism initiative was launched back in 2008. Is there a new "new initiative" because 2008 was 11 years ago.
https://www.visitjacksonville.com/media/news-releases/visit-jacksonville-ramps-up-its-convention-sales-initiatives/
QuoteThe recent changes make hosting a meeting in Jacksonville effortless for the meeting planner. In addition to the Sales staff reorganization to create more efficient relationships with meeting planners, Visit Jacksonville has created new collateral for target-specific markets, added end of the year discounts and launched a new initiative for medical tourism, branded "America's Health Center."
...
Medical Meetings & Conventions - With Jacksonville's diversity in medical care and research, biotechnology companies and meeting venues, Visit Jacksonville designated the city as "America's Health Center." A new sales collateral piece and dedicated Web site provides information on Jacksonville meeting venues and on the 11 medical partners who can offer facility tours and experts in a number of medical and research specialties for educational symposiums, keynote addresses and meeting attendees.
http://www.jaxhealthcenter.com/
You do realize that 'medical tourism', people traveling to Jacksonville for extended periods of time to receive treatments in Jacksonville-based medical facilities... is different than booking medical conventions, which is the initiative you are quoting.
Medical tourism is booming in Jacksonville. To even remotely criticize this niche, is patently absurd. This is not the first, and very sadly, not the last time you'll dive into a subject in which you clearly know nothing about and completely conflate issues.
I say this as someone that has put together financing for the construction of these medical facilities, and various housing/lodging options to serve these patients and their families.
Also, if you can consistently reach a 75% hotel occupancy rate... I'll gladly finance that as well. That's a very healthy number.
SO many unfounded criticisms of Jacksonville, so little time...
At least we've got Greenville, SC to hear about now instead of just harping on OKC
Quote from: Peter Griffin on October 23, 2019, 03:09:59 PM
SO many unfounded criticisms of Jacksonville, so little time...
At least we've got Greenville, SC to hear about now instead of just harping on OKC
You mean 66%ville? ;D
Quote from: Tacachale on October 23, 2019, 03:17:52 PM
Quote from: Peter Griffin on October 23, 2019, 03:09:59 PM
SO many unfounded criticisms of Jacksonville, so little time...
At least we've got Greenville, SC to hear about now instead of just harping on OKC
You mean 66%ville? ;D
^Is that the hotel occupancy rate for OKC? If so, I guess it makes sense - I can't imagine it being a big destination for tourism.
Quote from: Adam White on October 23, 2019, 03:20:13 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on October 23, 2019, 03:17:52 PM
Quote from: Peter Griffin on October 23, 2019, 03:09:59 PM
SO many unfounded criticisms of Jacksonville, so little time...
At least we've got Greenville, SC to hear about now instead of just harping on OKC
You mean 66%ville? ;D
^Is that the hotel occupancy rate for OKC? If so, I guess it makes sense - I can't imagine it being a big destination for tourism.
No, Greenville. I actually looked for OKC but couldn't find it in my admittedly cursory search that showed Jax's occupancy rate is pretty healthy.
Speak of the devil, I found an estimate for OKC.
Oklahoma City (https://www.oklahomahotels.org/docs/Oklahoma_2018_STRPresentation.pdf): (projected): 64%
Asheville (https://www.ashevillecvb.com/wp-content/uploads/Asheville_STR_2017.pdf) (2017): 65.5%
Greenville (https://www.postandcourier.com/business/real_estate/growing-number-of-business-travelers-give-rise-to-more-downtown/article_0ff2ea08-860d-11e9-a48f-0fe783fcf444.html): 66%
Indianapolis (https://www.bdmd.com/hotel-design-is-changing-the-indianapolis-marketplace-and-boosting-economy/): 70%
Tampa (https://www.visittampabay.com/media/news/post/hillsborough-tourism-smashes-600-million-hotel-revenue-goal/): 74.1%
Nashville (https://www.visitmusiccity.com/research): 75%
Miami (https://www.miamiandbeaches.com/press-room/miami-press-releases/record-tourism-industry-performance-in-2018): 76.7%
Atlanta (http://news.atlanta.net/news/atlanta-sees-record-breaking-hotel-occupancy-at-mid-year) (projected): 77%
Orlando (https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2019/09/26/heres-how-orlandos-hotel-industry-fared-in-first-8.html): 78.1 (2019 YTD)
Charleston (https://www.postandcourier.com/business/latest-hotel-reports-show-strong-tourism-market-in-south-carolina/article_49f507fa-95c1-11e8-a812-8ba4a3bc20e9.html): 78.9%
National average (http://hotelnewsnow.com/Articles/292373/STR-US-hotels-post-another-record-year-in-2018): 66.2%
Quote from: Tacachale on October 23, 2019, 03:34:40 PM
Speak of the devil, I found an estimate for OKC.
Oklahoma City (https://www.oklahomahotels.org/docs/Oklahoma_2018_STRPresentation.pdf): (projected): 64%
Asheville (https://www.ashevillecvb.com/wp-content/uploads/Asheville_STR_2017.pdf) (2017): 65.5%
Greenville (https://www.postandcourier.com/business/real_estate/growing-number-of-business-travelers-give-rise-to-more-downtown/article_0ff2ea08-860d-11e9-a48f-0fe783fcf444.html): 66%
Indianapolis (https://www.bdmd.com/hotel-design-is-changing-the-indianapolis-marketplace-and-boosting-economy/): 70%
Tampa (https://www.visittampabay.com/media/news/post/hillsborough-tourism-smashes-600-million-hotel-revenue-goal/): 74.1%
Nashville (https://www.visitmusiccity.com/research): 75%
Miami (https://www.miamiandbeaches.com/press-room/miami-press-releases/record-tourism-industry-performance-in-2018): 76.7%
Atlanta (http://news.atlanta.net/news/atlanta-sees-record-breaking-hotel-occupancy-at-mid-year) (projected): 77%
Orlando (https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2019/09/26/heres-how-orlandos-hotel-industry-fared-in-first-8.html): 78.1 (2019 YTD)
Charleston (https://www.postandcourier.com/business/latest-hotel-reports-show-strong-tourism-market-in-south-carolina/article_49f507fa-95c1-11e8-a812-8ba4a3bc20e9.html): 78.9%
National average (http://hotelnewsnow.com/Articles/292373/STR-US-hotels-post-another-record-year-in-2018): 66.2%
That's too funny. Thanks for doing the legwork.
Looks like Jacksonville COULD brag about its 75% occupancy rate afterall...
Quote from: fieldafm on October 23, 2019, 03:05:11 PM
You do realize that 'medical tourism', people traveling to Jacksonville for extended periods of time to receive treatments in Jacksonville-based medical facilities... is different than booking medical conventions, which is the initiative you are quoting.
Medical tourism is booming in Jacksonville. To even remotely criticize this niche, is patently absurd. This is not the first, and very sadly, not the last time you'll dive into a subject in which you clearly know nothing about and completely conflate issues.
I say this as someone that has put together financing for the construction of these medical facilities, and various housing/lodging options to serve these patients and their families.
Also, if you can consistently reach a 75% hotel occupancy rate... I'll gladly finance that as well. That's a very healthy number.
I wasn't criticizing it. I was asking if the 2018 article about it was referencing the 2008 initiative or if there was a new one.
It turns out it was the 2008 version. If you cared to read the website put together as part of that effort you would see that it hasn't been updated since 2015 as it talks about future meetings coming to Jax in 2016.
It might be a big thing, but it clearly isn't a current priority for VisitJax. Hell, the entire page directed at patients and their families is blank.
Okay - NOW I am criticizing it.
Quote from: Kerry on October 23, 2019, 04:21:08 PM
Quote from: fieldafm on October 23, 2019, 03:05:11 PM
You do realize that 'medical tourism', people traveling to Jacksonville for extended periods of time to receive treatments in Jacksonville-based medical facilities... is different than booking medical conventions, which is the initiative you are quoting.
Medical tourism is booming in Jacksonville. To even remotely criticize this niche, is patently absurd. This is not the first, and very sadly, not the last time you'll dive into a subject in which you clearly know nothing about and completely conflate issues.
I say this as someone that has put together financing for the construction of these medical facilities, and various housing/lodging options to serve these patients and their families.
Also, if you can consistently reach a 75% hotel occupancy rate... I'll gladly finance that as well. That's a very healthy number.
I wasn't criticizing it. I was asking if the 2018 article about it was referencing the 2008 initiative or if there was a new one.
It turns out it was the 2008 version. If you cared to read the website put together as part of that effort you would see that it hasn't been updated since 2015 as it talks about future meetings coming to Jax in 2016.
It might be a big thing, but it clearly isn't a current priority for VisitJax. Hell, the entire page directed at patients and their families is blank.
Okay - NOW I am criticizing it.
Don't worry. We know you're on it and will be much better with you involved. Seriously - is your goal just to criticize something and just change topics once you're proven wrong until you find something that you may have a point on? You're like a forum version of a Patent Troll.
You are correct that Visit Jacksonville should either put the money/resources into the website or take it down - I won't argue with you.
Want to get back on the Hotel Occupancy Rate or have you moved on since you criticized something you clearly had no idea about?
Sorry for venting man, but the schtick gets tiring after a while of just constant negativity about things you're not right about. Then when you through dumb luck land on something you're actually correct about you jump on it like you knew what you were talking about the entire time.
Sorry for the delay in responding - busy evening last night. Anyhow...I was just responding to the flow of the conversation. If you want to stick with hotel occupancy I'm good with that. With the information provided by others it actually does look like Jax has a respectable overall occupancy rate when compared to many cities on the list. However, that raises additional questions for me.
Quote
Well clearly you're not, but here are some comparable figures:
Hotel occupancy rates from 2018 unless otherwise noted:
Asheville (https://www.ashevillecvb.com/wp-content/uploads/Asheville_STR_2017.pdf) (2017): 65.5%
Greenville (https://www.postandcourier.com/business/real_estate/growing-number-of-business-travelers-give-rise-to-more-downtown/article_0ff2ea08-860d-11e9-a48f-0fe783fcf444.html): 66%
Indianapolis (https://www.bdmd.com/hotel-design-is-changing-the-indianapolis-marketplace-and-boosting-economy/): 70%
Tampa (https://www.visittampabay.com/media/news/post/hillsborough-tourism-smashes-600-million-hotel-revenue-goal/): 74.1%
Nashville (https://www.visitmusiccity.com/research): 75%
Miami (https://www.miamiandbeaches.com/press-room/miami-press-releases/record-tourism-industry-performance-in-2018): 76.7%
Atlanta (http://news.atlanta.net/news/atlanta-sees-record-breaking-hotel-occupancy-at-mid-year) (projected): 77%
Orlando (https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2019/09/26/heres-how-orlandos-hotel-industry-fared-in-first-8.html): 78.1 (2019 YTD)
Charleston (https://www.postandcourier.com/business/latest-hotel-reports-show-strong-tourism-market-in-south-carolina/article_49f507fa-95c1-11e8-a812-8ba4a3bc20e9.html): 78.9%
National average (http://hotelnewsnow.com/Articles/292373/STR-US-hotels-post-another-record-year-in-2018): 66.2%
Obviously we're is in a death spiral.
What is contained in those numbers? In many cities, Airbnb is now considered a hotel room and they have to pay the bed tax. Do these occupancy numbers contain Airbnb units? Also, many cities DON'T count hotel rooms if the occupant pays by the month or week or stays there longer than 30 consecutive days. 4 years ago I actually got refunded all the hotel bed tax because I rented the same hotel room for 9 months. When inquired as to why I was told the City didn't consider me a tourist after 15 days so I wasn't subject to the bed tax. Are those nuances enough to move annual numbers? In cities where Airbnb pays the bed tax it certainly could.
Here is a list of jurisdiction where Airbnb has to pay the hotel/motel bed tax. Duval County isn't one of them although the State of Florida does charge a fee.
https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/2509/in-what-areas-is-occupancy-tax-collection-and-remittance-by-airbnb-available
Now having said that, I'm not really concerned or even care about city-wide occupancy. Occupancy at the hotels on Airport Road mean zero to me. My focus has always been on the urban core.
How many downtown hotel rooms does Jax have and what is the occupancy rate of those hotels? As near as I can tell there are just under 2400 downtown hotel rooms. By comparison, downtown Charlotte had 2200 rooms under construction in 2017 alone and the Uptown district of Charlotte has almost 6,000 rooms. I can't find numbers for the other areas of Charlotte's urban core. For the record, downtown OKC has 4,547 rooms completed or under construction and Greenville has about 2200 completed with 3 new hotels under construction.
My point with this is that the occupancy rate probably isn't a good comparison tools between cities, but should probably be reserved for year over year comparisons for a specific city.
"
Medical tourism is booming in Jacksonville.
"
What are the metrics for booming?
How do we differentiate medical tourism from someone coming to town to get a new kidney?
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2019, 09:35:06 AM
Now having said that, I'm not really concerned or even care about city-wide occupancy. Occupancy at the hotels on Airport Road mean zero to me. My focus has always been on the urban core.
How many downtown hotel rooms does Jax have and what is the occupancy rate of those hotels? As near as I can tell there are just under 2400 downtown hotel rooms. By comparison, downtown Charlotte had 2200 rooms under construction in 2017 alone and the Uptown district of Charlotte has almost 6,000 rooms. I can't find numbers for the other areas of Charlotte's urban core. For the record, downtown OKC has 4,547 rooms completed or under construction and Greenville has about 2200 completed with 3 new hotels under construction.
My point with this is that the occupancy rate probably isn't a good comparison tools between cities, but should probably be reserved for year over year comparisons for a specific city.
I don't have a dog in this hotel occupancy fight but if comparing the cores of cities, you'll need to drill down on context and scale. Charlotte is on the scale of Orlando. The absolute numbers of an urban core serving a MSA of 2.5 million should drawf the urban core serving a significantly smaller MSA like Jax's. So without context, mentioning it is more of an apples to oranges comparison at this point:
MSA 2018 Population Estimates:
2,572,692 - Orlando (22nd largest MSA) +20.53% (growth % change since 2010)
2,569,213 - Charlotte (23) +15.89%2,518,213 - San Antonio (24) +17.53%
1,576,113 - Milwaukee (39) +1.30%
1,534,701 - Jacksonville (40) +14.05%1,396,445 - Oklahoma City (41) +11.45%Now OKC is a great place to compare, considering the scale of the MSA. However, you'll need to dig for the apples to apples numbers for both cities to get a better read on how they stack up in comparison. Then you'll need to do the same for a few more places of similar scale across the country to truly see how both rank within their peer grouping.
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2019, 09:35:06 AM
Sorry for the delay in responding - busy evening last night. Anyhow...I was just responding to the flow of the conversation. If you want to stick with hotel occupancy I'm good with that. With the information provided by others it actually does look like Jax has a respectable overall occupancy rate when compared to many cities on the list. However, that raises additional questions for me.
Quote
Well clearly you're not, but here are some comparable figures:
Hotel occupancy rates from 2018 unless otherwise noted:
Asheville (https://www.ashevillecvb.com/wp-content/uploads/Asheville_STR_2017.pdf) (2017): 65.5%
Greenville (https://www.postandcourier.com/business/real_estate/growing-number-of-business-travelers-give-rise-to-more-downtown/article_0ff2ea08-860d-11e9-a48f-0fe783fcf444.html): 66%
Indianapolis (https://www.bdmd.com/hotel-design-is-changing-the-indianapolis-marketplace-and-boosting-economy/): 70%
Tampa (https://www.visittampabay.com/media/news/post/hillsborough-tourism-smashes-600-million-hotel-revenue-goal/): 74.1%
Nashville (https://www.visitmusiccity.com/research): 75%
Miami (https://www.miamiandbeaches.com/press-room/miami-press-releases/record-tourism-industry-performance-in-2018): 76.7%
Atlanta (http://news.atlanta.net/news/atlanta-sees-record-breaking-hotel-occupancy-at-mid-year) (projected): 77%
Orlando (https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2019/09/26/heres-how-orlandos-hotel-industry-fared-in-first-8.html): 78.1 (2019 YTD)
Charleston (https://www.postandcourier.com/business/latest-hotel-reports-show-strong-tourism-market-in-south-carolina/article_49f507fa-95c1-11e8-a812-8ba4a3bc20e9.html): 78.9%
National average (http://hotelnewsnow.com/Articles/292373/STR-US-hotels-post-another-record-year-in-2018): 66.2%
Obviously we're is in a death spiral.
What is contained in those numbers? In many cities, Airbnb is now considered a hotel room and they have to pay the bed tax. Do these occupancy numbers contain Airbnb units? Also, many cities DON'T count hotel rooms if the occupant pays by the month or week or stays there longer than 30 consecutive days. 4 years ago I actually got refunded all the hotel bed tax because I rented the same hotel room for 9 months. When inquired as to why I was told the City didn't consider me a tourist after 15 days so I wasn't subject to the bed tax. Are those nuances enough to move annual numbers? In cities where Airbnb pays the bed tax it certainly could.
Here is a list of jurisdiction where Airbnb has to pay the hotel/motel bed tax. Duval County isn't one of them although the State of Florida does charge a fee.
https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/2509/in-what-areas-is-occupancy-tax-collection-and-remittance-by-airbnb-available
Now having said that, I'm not really concerned or even care about city-wide occupancy. Occupancy at the hotels on Airport Road mean zero to me. My focus has always been on the urban core.
How many downtown hotel rooms does Jax have and what is the occupancy rate of those hotels? As near as I can tell there are just under 2400 downtown hotel rooms. By comparison, downtown Charlotte had 2200 rooms under construction in 2017 alone and the Uptown district of Charlotte has almost 6,000 rooms. I can't find numbers for the other areas of Charlotte's urban core. For the record, downtown OKC has 4,547 rooms completed or under construction and Greenville has about 2200 completed with 3 new hotels under construction.
My point with this is that the occupancy rate probably isn't a good comparison tools between cities, but should probably be reserved for year over year comparisons for a specific city.
Dude,
you brought up Jax's hotel occupancy as a sign that we're struggling. Clearly by your own initial argument that's not the case. I really don't care to dig down into all those other conditions as it doesn't appear we have any reason to be concerned in this area versus other areas where we really are struggling.
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2019, 09:35:06 AM
My point with this is that the occupancy rate probably isn't a good comparison tools between cities, but should probably be reserved for year over year comparisons for a specific city.
That was NOT your point, your point was that 75% occupancy was nothing to brag about, which was more or less shown to be incorrect. Now you've spun even more BS about "hmm haw well maybe we consider Air BnB and downtown and also I don't care about hotel occupancy but some other city has more hotels and so really I was right all along you see"
Conceding that your statement was unfounded/proven wrong is really freeing, bro, maybe try it some time. Humble pie tastes surprisingly good, IMHO
KenFSU will have more specific numbers, since this is part of his actual job, but I think the vacancy rate is much lower for downtown Jax than the city as a whole. We are probably undeserved as far as number of rooms, but there are hundreds if not 1,000+ rooms proposed for the urban core.
Quote from: Peter Griffin on October 24, 2019, 10:06:49 AM
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2019, 09:35:06 AM
My point with this is that the occupancy rate probably isn't a good comparison tools between cities, but should probably be reserved for year over year comparisons for a specific city.
That was NOT your point, your point was that 75% occupancy was nothing to brag about, which was more or less shown to be incorrect. Now you've spun even more BS about "hmm haw well maybe we consider Air BnB and downtown and also I don't care about hotel occupancy but some other city has more hotels and so really I was right all along you see"
Conceding that your statement was unfounded/proven wrong is really freeing, bro, maybe try it some time. Humble pie tastes surprisingly good, IMHO
I just did that.
QuoteWith the information provided by others it actually does look like Jax has a respectable overall occupancy rate when compared to many cities on the list.
I'll wait...
QuoteConceding that your statement was unfounded/proven wrong is really freeing, bro, maybe try it some time. Humble pie tastes surprisingly good, IMHO
Quote from: bl8jaxnative on October 24, 2019, 09:53:33 AM
"
Medical tourism is booming in Jacksonville.
"
What are the metrics for booming?
How do we differentiate medical tourism from someone coming to town to get a new kidney?
Well that scenario
is the definition of medical tourism.
Quote from: bl8jaxnative on October 24, 2019, 09:53:33 AM
"
Medical tourism is booming in Jacksonville.
"
What are the metrics for booming?
How do we differentiate medical tourism from someone coming to town to get a new kidney?
I thought the same thing but didn't want to be accused of changing the subject. I'm not sure what Medical Tourism in the US even means unless they strictly mean people attending medical related conferences and not the actual patients. I know people go to Costa Rica and other places to get low-cost or in many cases, banned in the US procedures but I doubt Mayo and the others are providing low-cost or banned procedures.
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2019, 10:54:42 AM
Quote from: bl8jaxnative on October 24, 2019, 09:53:33 AM
"
Medical tourism is booming in Jacksonville.
"
What are the metrics for booming?
How do we differentiate medical tourism from someone coming to town to get a new kidney?
I thought the same thing but didn't want to be accused of changing the subject. I'm not sure what Medical Tourism in the US even means unless they strictly mean people attending medical related conferences and not the actual patients. I know people go to Costa Rica and other places to get low-cost or in many cases, banned in the US procedures but I doubt Mayo and the others are providing low-cost or banned procedures.
People travel from all around the world to be treated at places like Mayo, MD Anderson, UF Health Proton Therapy, Ackerman Cancer Center, etc.
That's called medical tourism. People travel for quality care... not just for the cheapest care.
(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/SCU09032019/i-v866FkF/0/e5e18469/L/20190903_114832-L.jpg)
This is Mayo's newest $144 million, 120,000 square foot expansion. They are also about to build a new proton therapy treatment center that will cost north of $200million
https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/the-story-of-bringing-mayo-clinic-to-jacksonville/ (https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/the-story-of-bringing-mayo-clinic-to-jacksonville/)
Here is the brand new, $180 million, 332,000 square feet MD Anderson Cancer Center built in San Marco
(https://cdn1.baptistjax.com/images/page-headers/pageheader-services-bmda-building_2019.jpg)
Here is the $30 million Ackerman Cancer Center in Mandarin... the first private-practice proton therapy center in the world.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-s-xLESm_5OA/V45PQblz1MI/AAAAAAAAAbo/qk3mGvr9ndIUQORUVAEIMzvSBMpgLKyQACLcB/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/Ackerman%2BCancer%2BCenter.tif)
You don't need to look very hard to see the signs of a booming medical tourism industry in Jax.
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2019, 10:54:42 AM
Quote from: bl8jaxnative on October 24, 2019, 09:53:33 AM
"
Medical tourism is booming in Jacksonville.
"
What are the metrics for booming?
How do we differentiate medical tourism from someone coming to town to get a new kidney?
I thought the same thing but didn't want to be accused of changing the subject. I'm not sure what Medical Tourism in the US even means unless they strictly mean people attending medical related conferences and not the actual patients. I know people go to Costa Rica and other places to get low-cost or in many cases, banned in the US procedures but I doubt Mayo and the others are providing low-cost or banned procedures.
If you are travelling somewhere specifically to get a medical procedure, for whatever reason, it's medical tourism.
Current debate aside - that is a very crap term to describe people seeking life-saving medical specialties.
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2019, 11:58:46 AM
Current debate aside - that is a very crap term to describe people seeking life-saving medical specialties.
holy shit dude it's ALWAYS something, isn't it?
Quote from: Peter Griffin on October 24, 2019, 12:30:21 PM
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2019, 11:58:46 AM
Current debate aside - that is a very crap term to describe people seeking life-saving medical specialties.
holy shit dude it's ALWAYS something, isn't it?
Yeah, if it was me I think I would come up with a term a little more human-oriented and not so much like they are a product, especially when they are seeking life-saving treatments and not cosmetic/elective surgeries. Memphis must be tickled pink with all their medical tourist at St. Judes. If one of my family members were in need of life-saving medical care in another city and someone described them as a medical tourist I would probably punch them right in the mouth and tell them to enjoy their vacation to the ER.
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2019, 12:48:24 PM
Quote from: Peter Griffin on October 24, 2019, 12:30:21 PM
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2019, 11:58:46 AM
Current debate aside - that is a very crap term to describe people seeking life-saving medical specialties.
holy shit dude it's ALWAYS something, isn't it?
Yeah, if it was me I think I would come up with a term a little more human-oriented and not so much like they are a product, especially when they are seeking life-saving treatments and not cosmetic/elective surgeries. Memphis must be tickled pink with all their medical tourist at St. Judes. If one of my family members were in need of life-saving medical care in another city and someone described them as a medical tourist I would probably punch them right in the mouth and tell them to enjoy their vacation to the ER.
Man, that went from 0-100 real quick.
"I don't like this innocuous term that approximately describes a known phenomenon, I think I'll inflict violence upon those who use it in a hypothetical situation"
r u ok my dude?
EDIT: ok I'm bashing my head against a wall here, I better log off and go enjoy my long weekend and take a few deep breaths
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2019, 12:48:24 PM
Quote from: Peter Griffin on October 24, 2019, 12:30:21 PM
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2019, 11:58:46 AM
Current debate aside - that is a very crap term to describe people seeking life-saving medical specialties.
holy shit dude it's ALWAYS something, isn't it?
Yeah, if it was me I think I would come up with a term a little more human-oriented and not so much like they are a product, especially when they are seeking life-saving treatments and not cosmetic/elective surgeries. Memphis must be tickled pink with all their medical tourist at St. Judes. If one of my family members were in need of life-saving medical care in another city and someone described them as a medical tourist I would probably punch them right in the mouth and tell them to enjoy their vacation to the ER.
As someone who used to live next to many UF Proton Therapy patients and has also served as a lobbyist for a cancer center (outside of Jax), I can assure you that none of them are offended by being considered "medical tourists". In fact many of them treat their stays as if its a vacation and the hospitals even provide them with tourist like activities to do. It is literally why they come to warm climates for treatment. Proton therapy is not as physically taxing as chemo, and even the patient typically goes out quite a bit.
You take a lot of flak on these boards, but off all the debates you've been in, this is not the hill to die on. Jax's forays into "medical tourism" are arguably one of the savviest plays the City and it's leaders have made in recent years.
Quote from: CityLife on October 24, 2019, 01:05:51 PM
You take a lot of flak on these boards, but off all the debates you've been in, this is not the hill to die on
Pretty sure Kerry just said to himself:
(https://media.tenor.com/images/7124164cbf717a4b3f072fa8d44fe34e/tenor.gif)
Quote from: CityLife on October 24, 2019, 01:05:51 PM
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2019, 12:48:24 PM
Quote from: Peter Griffin on October 24, 2019, 12:30:21 PM
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2019, 11:58:46 AM
Current debate aside - that is a very crap term to describe people seeking life-saving medical specialties.
holy shit dude it's ALWAYS something, isn't it?
Yeah, if it was me I think I would come up with a term a little more human-oriented and not so much like they are a product, especially when they are seeking life-saving treatments and not cosmetic/elective surgeries. Memphis must be tickled pink with all their medical tourist at St. Judes. If one of my family members were in need of life-saving medical care in another city and someone described them as a medical tourist I would probably punch them right in the mouth and tell them to enjoy their vacation to the ER.
As someone who used to live next to many UF Proton Therapy patients and has also served as a lobbyist for a cancer center (outside of Jax), I can assure you that none of them are offended by being considered "medical tourists". In fact many of them treat their stays as if its a vacation and the hospitals even provide them with tourist like activities to do. It is literally why they come to warm climates for treatment. Proton therapy is not as physically taxing as chemo, and even the patient typically goes out quite a bit.
You take a lot of flak on these boards, but off all the debates you've been in, this is not the hill to die on. Jax's forays into "medical tourism" are arguably one of the savviest plays the City and it's leaders have made in recent years.
I'm not saying Jax isn't a destination for medical treatment or that we shouldn't do what we can to attract patients and provide their families with distractions from the medical concerns - I just don't care for the term or really the underlying "how we can make money off all these sick people" mentality. It just seem morbid to me and "do anything and say anything to make a few dollars". Now granted, I am well aware it is an industry term in wide spread use - heck, the trade group for doctor and hospitals catering to these people is called the Medical Tourism Association.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/dec/12/us-states-vie-to-lure-medical-tourists-seeking-healthcare-alongside-vacations
QuoteBecause it's located in the United States, the most expensive healthcare market in the world, Florida won't compete for medical tourists – either domestic or international – on price, said Will Seccombe, president and CEO of Visit Florida, the state's tourism marketing organization. Instead, Florida is playing up its hospitality culture, and famously temperate climes, while also promoting the quality of its medical centers.
The long-term goal, Seccombe said, is to attract "high-yield visitors" to the state –tourists who drop cash not only on medical treatment but also hotel stays, car rentals, Disney World tickets and more.
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2019, 02:28:35 PM
Quote from: CityLife on October 24, 2019, 01:05:51 PM
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2019, 12:48:24 PM
Quote from: Peter Griffin on October 24, 2019, 12:30:21 PM
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2019, 11:58:46 AM
Current debate aside - that is a very crap term to describe people seeking life-saving medical specialties.
holy shit dude it's ALWAYS something, isn't it?
Yeah, if it was me I think I would come up with a term a little more human-oriented and not so much like they are a product, especially when they are seeking life-saving treatments and not cosmetic/elective surgeries. Memphis must be tickled pink with all their medical tourist at St. Judes. If one of my family members were in need of life-saving medical care in another city and someone described them as a medical tourist I would probably punch them right in the mouth and tell them to enjoy their vacation to the ER.
As someone who used to live next to many UF Proton Therapy patients and has also served as a lobbyist for a cancer center (outside of Jax), I can assure you that none of them are offended by being considered "medical tourists". In fact many of them treat their stays as if its a vacation and the hospitals even provide them with tourist like activities to do. It is literally why they come to warm climates for treatment. Proton therapy is not as physically taxing as chemo, and even the patient typically goes out quite a bit.
You take a lot of flak on these boards, but off all the debates you've been in, this is not the hill to die on. Jax's forays into "medical tourism" are arguably one of the savviest plays the City and it's leaders have made in recent years.
I'm not saying Jax isn't a destination for medical treatment or that we shouldn't do what we can to attract patients and provide their families with distractions from the medical concerns - I just don't care for the term or really the underlying "how we can make money off all these sick people" mentality. It just seem morbid to me and "do anything and say anything to make a few dollars". Now granted, I am well aware it is an industry term in wide spread use - heck, the trade group for doctor and hospitals catering to these people is called the Medical Tourism Association.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/dec/12/us-states-vie-to-lure-medical-tourists-seeking-healthcare-alongside-vacations
QuoteBecause it's located in the United States, the most expensive healthcare market in the world, Florida won't compete for medical tourists – either domestic or international – on price, said Will Seccombe, president and CEO of Visit Florida, the state's tourism marketing organization. Instead, Florida is playing up its hospitality culture, and famously temperate climes, while also promoting the quality of its medical centers.
The long-term goal, Seccombe said, is to attract "high-yield visitors" to the state –tourists who drop cash not only on medical treatment but also hotel stays, car rentals, Disney World tickets and more.
Dude. First of all, if you had a winning lottery ticket I bet I could come to you to criticize everything from the convenience store where you bought the thing to the friendliness of the Lottery official in Tallahassee working with you to wheel your cash out to the car.
Back on topic: I actually see part of your point on terminology but is that really an issue? if a family can enjoy a museum or the beach or a festival downtown while a family member is here for an unfortunate reason, why not cater to those folks and take advantage of it. The city didn't give someone cancer, but if the city can help make that experience as enjoyable as possible (and yes, someone may make some money off of them) then so be it! So long as no one is getting ripped off and people are treated fairly then take advantage. If a mom and pop restaurant owner can make a little extra money (they have a family too BTW), then why not?
Quote from: Steve on October 24, 2019, 02:18:11 PM
Quote from: CityLife on October 24, 2019, 01:05:51 PM
You take a lot of flak on these boards, but off all the debates you've been in, this is not the hill to die on
Pretty sure Kerry just said to himself:
(https://media.tenor.com/images/7124164cbf717a4b3f072fa8d44fe34e/tenor.gif)
and as evidenced by the post immediately following yours, you called it to a T
There's nothing insidious about providing quality medical care that is substantial enough to draw in patients from the surrounding region.
Honestly the way Kerry's talking about this is more inline with some Social Justice type talk, which is a little funny to me
So can we conclude the following?
Hotel Vacancy Rate:
The 75% rate for Jax is consistent with other regional cities but should primarily be used to compare year over year changes within a specific city instead of as a comparison between cities dues to vast differences in the number of hotel rooms, and what actually is counted as a hotel room.
Medical Tourism:
A medical tourist is any person seeking to combine any medical procedure with a vacation, and as much as I personally dislike the term, it is an industry standard term. VisitJacksonville should bring their Medical Tourism website up-to-date to recruit patients to Jax.
You're alright Kerry, and so are you Peter, just the both of you go to a bar, get drunk, get a hotel room, to hell with everything, and when you both wake up the next morning in the same hotel room you can shout at the top of your lungs......."BOY WAS I DRUNK LAST NIGHT!!! Can't we all just get along? Just playing and kidding. You guys are making good points, but try to cool and calm down; it's not that intensive to choke or tap each other out about. LOL?
^Legit laughed out loud at this in the middle of a meeting.
Amazing :D
Quote from: heights unknown on October 24, 2019, 04:16:20 PM
You're alright Kerry, and so are you Peter, just the both of you go to a bar, get drunk, get a hotel room, to hell with everything, and when you both wake up the next morning in the same hotel room you can shout at the top of your lungs......."BOY WAS I DRUNK LAST NIGHT!!! Can't we all just get along? Just playing and kidding. You guys are making good points, but try to cool and calm down; it's not that intensive to choke or tap each other out about. LOL?
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/019/952/implication.jpg)
At the end of the day - we all want the same thing, a more vibrant and urban downtown Jacksonville. We only differ in our opinion of how we get there, what the barriers to success are, and how to remove those barriers.