https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190723/jea-board-to-consider-layoffs-or-moving-forward-with-privatization
Live coverage:
https://twitter.com/chrishongtu?lang=en
Of course it did. That was the best unkept secret in this town since the first attempt went down in flames.
I love that the mayor and Zhan acted like people who figured privatization was still on the table were agenda-driven conspiracy mongers.
Also, this is being framed as a choice between privatization and laying off hundreds of people. "Nice jobs these JEA employees got there. Be a shame if something happened to them."
^The sad thing is privatization doesn't guarantee those jobs are protected either. I bet privatization will still lead to layoffs and rate hikes, if the situation is as dire as they claim it to be.
Quote from: Tacachale on July 23, 2019, 11:37:07 AM
I love that the mayor and Zhan acted like people who figured privatization was still on the table were agenda-driven conspiracy mongers.
Also, this is being framed as a choice between privatization and laying off hundreds of people. "Nice jobs these JEA employees got there. Be a shame if something happened to them."
AKA extortion.
Quote from: itsfantastic1 on July 23, 2019, 11:58:57 AM
^The sad thing is privatization doesn't guarantee those jobs are protected either. I bet privatization will still lead to layoffs and rate hikes, if the situation is as dire as they claim it to be.
Jobs would be protected for 3 years. After that, you can bet cuts would be made.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jea-will-look-at-ways-to-privatize-the-city-owned-utility
The interesting thing is they had until today to "opt out" of the Ryan deal....and specifically chose not to do so.
Also, as part of that:
QuoteThe board also voted Tuesday to renew Zahn's employment contract. The $520,392 annual base salary plus benefits makes Zahn the highest-paid government employee in Jacksonville.
Approved a $500k + salary........with an additional a $850/mo car allowance.
How tone deaf can you be.
Quote from: Bill Hoff on July 23, 2019, 05:33:43 PM
Approved a $500k + salary........with an additional a $850/mo car allowance.
How tone deaf can you be.
What a joke.
Totally predictable. Curry has his boy heading JEA and he's a lame duck mayor. I'm still trying to figure out how Lenny profits from selling the JEA. Wasn't long ago they gave a big bonus to the former head of JEA and raved about his leadership. Now, they are in dire straits, need to raise rates and lay workers off. I remember when Hayden Burns and some of the old commissioners were thought of as crooks...small timers compared to nowaday's. Only in the Bold City.
What an odd period of time... Almost like it was designed to coincide with the end of a certain administration to shield it from any blame of the inevitable rate hikes and layoffs.
Quote from: Bill Hoff on July 23, 2019, 02:50:38 PM
Quote from: itsfantastic1 on July 23, 2019, 11:58:57 AM
^The sad thing is privatization doesn't guarantee those jobs are protected either. I bet privatization will still lead to layoffs and rate hikes, if the situation is as dire as they claim it to be.
Jobs would be protected for 3 years. After that, you can bet cuts would be made.
Some of Curry's last 4+ years of "accomplishments":
1. Selling JEA to reap a one-time windfall in order to convince a few suckers that he has saved the City's finances while the dollars go down a rabbit hole and the City's finances and utility customers pay the price forever
2. Not resolving the pension but just kicking the can down the road at greater expense due to added financing costs and via an even more-expensive 401K plan for police and firefighters
3. Not raising taxes under any circumstances while infrastructure crumbles and social services fall behind
4. Not supporting even minimal maintenance of our public schools - the #1 factor in major corporate location decisions - by not letting an independent elected body dedicated to our schools manage them
5. Demolishing (potentially historic) buildings at great expense with no ROI plan
6. Favoring Shad and other major donors while failing to substantively and equitably address the needs of the greater community
7. Failing to reduce the murder rate when this was a central issue for campaigning for a "regime" change at City Hall
8. Denying the impacts of climate change and failing to substantively plan for same even though Jax is listed as one of the most vulnerable cities in the US to the obviously rising seas
9. Employing bullying tactics with both opposing parties and those who supported him that had the nerve to differ on issues
10. Stacking City boards with "yes" men and women, not thinking persons who might even slightly challenge the Mayor's agenda
11. Supporting river dredging even though the economics are highly questionable, it will forever degrade the City's greatest physical and economic asset in the river and it will magnify storm surge for an already highly vulnerable city that was just swamped by the weak side of a mere tropical storm centered some 200 miles away
12. Creating a political machine to control the City Council via multi-million dollar PACs to insure unquestioning rubber stamping of even the most questionable decisions
This is what we get with 20%+/- voter turnout for City elections. The ones who will suffer the most are the 80% who don't show up at the polls. This lack of civic engagement is why Jacksonville will continue to fall behind comparable cities for years to come.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on July 23, 2019, 08:29:34 PM
Some of Curry's last 4+ years of "accomplishments":
1. Selling JEA to reap a one-time windfall in order to convince a few suckers that he has saved the City's finances while the dollars go down a rabbit hole and the City's finances and utility customers pay the price forever
2. Not resolving the pension but just kicking the can down the road at greater expense due to added financing costs and via an even more-expensive 401K plan for police and firefighters
3. Not raising taxes under any circumstances while infrastructure crumbles and social services fall behind
4. Not supporting even minimal maintenance of our public schools - the #1 factor in major corporate location decisions - by not letting an independent elected body dedicated to our schools manage them
5. Demolishing (potentially historic) buildings at great expense with no ROI plan
6. Favoring Shad and other major donors while failing to substantively and equitably address the needs of the greater community
7. Failing to reduce the murder rate when this was a central issue for campaigning for a "regime" change at City Hall
8. Denying the impacts of climate change and failing to substantively plan for same even though Jax is listed as one of the most vulnerable cities in the US to the obviously rising seas
9. Employing bullying tactics with both opposing parties and those who supported him that had the nerve to differ on issues
10. Stacking City boards with "yes" men and women, not thinking persons who might even slightly challenge the Mayor's agenda
11. Supporting river dredging even though the economics are highly questionable, it will forever degrade the City's greatest physical and economic asset in the river and it will magnify storm surge for an already highly vulnerable city that was just swamped by the weak side of a mere tropical storm centered some 200 miles away
12. Creating a political machine to control the City Council via multi-million dollar PACs to insure unquestioning rubber stamping of even the most questionable decisions
This is what we get with 20%+/- voter turnout for City elections. The ones who will suffer the most are the 80% who don't show up at the polls. This lack of civic engagement is why Jacksonville will continue to fall behind comparable cities for years to come.
Damn, I totally agree!
Nate Monroe of the Florida Times-Union/Jacksonville.com is must reading as he continues to be the standard-bearer in this City for presenting factual information that holds elected and agency officials accountable for their actions.
Like his idol Trump, Curry continues to say one thing and does another and then bullies those who hold him accountable. This column exemplifies that:
"Haggling over campaign endorsement, mayoral aide assured no interest in JEA sale."
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190724/nate-monroe-haggling-over-campaign-endorsement-mayoral-aide-assured-no-interest-in-jea-sale (https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190724/nate-monroe-haggling-over-campaign-endorsement-mayoral-aide-assured-no-interest-in-jea-sale)
The Mayor's Chief of Staff in reference to a reporter: "We don't negotiate with terrorists"
Wow.
Quote from: DrQue on July 25, 2019, 09:47:36 AM
The Mayor's Chief of Staff in reference to a reporter: "We don't negotiate with terrorists"
Wow.
Stop it. He really said that? Who is the terrorist, someone that isn't willing to be a "yes man" to Curry?
Sounds like Nate Monroe was the terrorist in that email exchange.
Quote from: Steve on July 25, 2019, 10:04:41 AM
Quote from: DrQue on July 25, 2019, 09:47:36 AM
The Mayor's Chief of Staff in reference to a reporter: "We don't negotiate with terrorists"
Wow.
Stop it. He really said that? Who is the terrorist, someone that isn't willing to be a "yes man" to Curry?
From the February 2019 email from Brian Hughes:
"Thanks for the additional information. The process as you laid out in your email is one that I am advising Mayor Curry against. With all respect to Mayor Godbold and you,
I can't advise Mayor Curry to take public, written positions in response to a journalist who consistently misinforms the public. Said in the language of another time, we don't negotiate with terrorists. The TU newsroom and Nate have, since the very beginning of the JEA discussion, been allied with the political motivations of Brosche and a few union bosses. We simply will not let Nate - an ill-informed and foolish person - dictate our movements."
Taken straight from the playbook of their idol in the White House.
Some questions:
1) Is the recent news creating a backlash or is it being ignored?
2) Is the Civic Council going to be silent on this issue as well?
3) Khan spoke out against selling before. Is he going to do that again?
Quote from: vicupstate on July 25, 2019, 11:35:28 AM
Some questions:
1) Is the recent news creating a backlash or is it being ignored?
2) Is the Civic Council going to be silent on this issue as well?
3) Khan spoke out against selling before. Is he going to do that again?
Yes
Quote from: vicupstate on July 25, 2019, 11:35:28 AM
Some questions:
1) Is the recent news creating a backlash or is it being ignored?
It's creating a big backlash, as expected. However, it has been clear that things were headed this way for a while.
Quote2) Is the Civic Council going to be silent on this issue as well?
The Civic Council is a joke. I can't imagine the public takes them seriously. It lost all credibility by remaining silent with all the foolishness going on downtown. If Brown were in office, they'd be all out full force in the media.
Quote3) Khan spoke out against selling before. Is he going to do that again?
This remains to be seen, not that his opinion should carry much weight either. He doesn't even live here.
Khan didn't want JEA privatized before because he thought Lot J was a lock for the new headquarters.
Tell me the fix wasn't in for this week's JEA Board approval to pursue options to privatize JEA. No way you could vet, negotiate a contract and hire these 4 firms in just 2 days for such a complex proposition.
QuoteJust two days after the JEA board decided to explore privatization of the city-owned utility, JEA announced Thursday in rapid-fire fashion it has hired four firms to provide financial and legal advice to JEA while inviting offers for the utility...
JEA hired J.P. Morgan Securities and Morgan Stanley & Co. as financial advisers. Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman and Foley & Lardner will give legal guidance...
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190725/jea-takes-next-step-in-seeking-offers-for-utility (https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190725/jea-takes-next-step-in-seeking-offers-for-utility)
It's Jacksonville. The fix is ALWAYS in.
Quote from: Kerry on July 25, 2019, 03:26:50 PM
Khan didn't want JEA privatized before because he thought Lot J was a lock for the new headquarters.
This is patently
absurd.Who stood to benefit from a $3 billion economic windfall more than anybody else if the city had taken JEA public last year?
Shad Khan, whose plans for redeveloping the stadium district will obviously require hundreds of millions of dollars in public subsidies and who was locked into negotiations with the city when the discussion came up last year.
In terms of Shad Khan wanting JEA to stay public until a Lot J deal was brokered, again, it just doesn't align with the facts. Because JEA is a publicly owned company, it was never going to get the same incentives from the city for its headquarters that a privately owned company would. Morris was talked out of offering up the Times-Union property for this reason. To the best of my knowledge, there's been no major public ask from the Ryan headquarters. Doesn't feel like Ryan got a steep discount on the land.
If Khan was the evil genius you believe he is, he would have said, "Sell JEA tomorrow! The ratepayers will share in the economic windfall, the utility will be better equipped to serve the city of Jacksonville, and the city will enter into a new era of economic prosperity."
Instead, he proactively came out and suggested it was a terrible, foolish idea.
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20180419/shad-khan-selling-jea-is-terrible-idea
I'm hesistant to say why (you never know if
he who shall not be named is still out there lurking, waiting to use something against you), but I've spent a lot of time around the Jags organization in the last six weeks or so, up to and including in-depth conversations with some of the highest ranking people there. To a person, every single human working for the Jags talks passionately about the organization's top-down goal of helping to transform Jacksonville into a world class city.
It's literally written on the walls.
Whether you agree with their methods or ideas for doing so is another story altogether, and there is obviously a vested business interest on their side with these plans as well, but there's absolutely no universe where Shad Khan is hatching an evil conspiracy against the city.
Everyone down there believes in Jacksonville, wants to see the city live up to its potential, and is all hands on deck toward making Jacksonville a great, successful, long-term NFL mainstay.
I think you unfairly villify Khan and the Jags.
If you think we bend too much to the Jags' desires (a reasonable argument), that's on the city, not on the Jags for asking.
Khan, as we've seen, clearly can't pull any strings on JEA on his own.
Quote from: KenFSU on July 26, 2019, 10:32:09 AM
Quote from: Kerry on July 25, 2019, 03:26:50 PM
Khan didn't want JEA privatized before because he thought Lot J was a lock for the new headquarters.
This is patently absurd.
Who stood to benefit from a $3 billion economic windfall more than anybody else if the city had taken JEA public last year?
Shad Khan, whose plans for redeveloping the stadium district will obviously require hundreds of millions of dollars in public subsidies and who was locked into negotiations with the city when the discussion came up last year.
In terms of Shad Khan wanting JEA to stay public until a Lot J deal was brokered, again, it just doesn't align with the facts. Because JEA is a publicly owned company, it was never going to get the same incentives from the city for its headquarters that a privately owned company would. Morris was talked out of offering up the Times-Union property for this reason. To the best of my knowledge, there's been no major public ask from the Ryan headquarters. Doesn't feel like Ryan got a steep discount on the land.
If Khan was the evil genius you believe he is, he would have said, "Sell JEA tomorrow! The ratepayers will share in the economic windfall, the utility will be better equipped to serve the city of Jacksonville, and the city will enter into a new era of economic prosperity."
Instead, he proactively came out and suggested it was a terrible, foolish idea.
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20180419/shad-khan-selling-jea-is-terrible-idea
I'm hesistant to say why (you never know if he who shall not be named is still out there lurking, waiting to use something against you), but I've spent a lot of time around the Jags organization in the last six weeks or so, up to and including in-depth conversations with some of the highest ranking people there. To a person, every single human working for the Jags talks passionately about the organization's top-down goal of helping to transform Jacksonville into a world class city.
It's literally written on the walls.
Whether you agree with their methods or ideas for doing so is another story altogether, and there is obviously a vested business interest on their side with these plans as well, but there's absolutely no universe where Shad Khan is hatching an evil conspiracy against the city.
Everyone down there believes in Jacksonville, wants to see the city live up to its potential, and is all hands on deck toward making Jacksonville a great, successful, long-term NFL mainstay.
I think you unfairly villify Khan and the Jags.
If you think we bend too much to the Jags' desires (a reasonable argument), that's on the city, not on the Jags for asking.
Khan, as we've seen, clearly can't pull any strings on JEA on his own.
Ugggh - go back and look at the timelines. Khan was already planning on JEA when Lot J was announced. If it was privatised BEFORE the deal was done Curry/Khan would have to sell the idea of Lot J to outsiders they didn't control. When Lot J lost all of a sudden privatization was back on table, and at a speed which indicates it was back on table months ago.
JEA was a loss-leader for Lot J. How many times has Curry and Khan said they need jobs before they can develop the residential and entertainment portions? Answer, dozens of times.
If Khan was remotely capable of maling Jax a world class city how come it hasn't happened yet? It's not like he just got here yesterday and this City is further from world-class than at any point since the 1901 and losing ground.
Quote from: Kerry on July 26, 2019, 09:10:30 PM
Quote from: KenFSU on July 26, 2019, 10:32:09 AM
Quote from: Kerry on July 25, 2019, 03:26:50 PM
Khan didn't want JEA privatized before because he thought Lot J was a lock for the new headquarters.
This is patently absurd.
Who stood to benefit from a $3 billion economic windfall more than anybody else if the city had taken JEA public last year?
Shad Khan, whose plans for redeveloping the stadium district will obviously require hundreds of millions of dollars in public subsidies and who was locked into negotiations with the city when the discussion came up last year.
In terms of Shad Khan wanting JEA to stay public until a Lot J deal was brokered, again, it just doesn't align with the facts. Because JEA is a publicly owned company, it was never going to get the same incentives from the city for its headquarters that a privately owned company would. Morris was talked out of offering up the Times-Union property for this reason. To the best of my knowledge, there's been no major public ask from the Ryan headquarters. Doesn't feel like Ryan got a steep discount on the land.
If Khan was the evil genius you believe he is, he would have said, "Sell JEA tomorrow! The ratepayers will share in the economic windfall, the utility will be better equipped to serve the city of Jacksonville, and the city will enter into a new era of economic prosperity."
Instead, he proactively came out and suggested it was a terrible, foolish idea.
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20180419/shad-khan-selling-jea-is-terrible-idea
I'm hesistant to say why (you never know if he who shall not be named is still out there lurking, waiting to use something against you), but I've spent a lot of time around the Jags organization in the last six weeks or so, up to and including in-depth conversations with some of the highest ranking people there. To a person, every single human working for the Jags talks passionately about the organization's top-down goal of helping to transform Jacksonville into a world class city.
It's literally written on the walls.
Whether you agree with their methods or ideas for doing so is another story altogether, and there is obviously a vested business interest on their side with these plans as well, but there's absolutely no universe where Shad Khan is hatching an evil conspiracy against the city.
Everyone down there believes in Jacksonville, wants to see the city live up to its potential, and is all hands on deck toward making Jacksonville a great, successful, long-term NFL mainstay.
I think you unfairly villify Khan and the Jags.
If you think we bend too much to the Jags' desires (a reasonable argument), that's on the city, not on the Jags for asking.
Khan, as we've seen, clearly can't pull any strings on JEA on his own.
Ugggh - go back and look at the timelines. Khan was already planning on JEA when Lot J was announced. If it was privatised BEFORE the deal was done Curry/Khan would have to sell the idea of Lot J to outsiders they didn't control. When Lot J lost all of a sudden privatization was back on table, and at a speed which indicates it was back on table months ago.
JEA was a loss-leader for Lot J. How many times has Curry and Khan said they need jobs before they can develop the residential and entertainment portions? Answer, dozens of times.
If Khan was remotely capable of maling Jax a world class city how come it hasn't happened yet? It's not like he just got here yesterday and this City is further from world-class than at any point since the 1901 and losing ground.
Tin foil is a good look for you.
I've actually given it a lot of thought and came to the conclusion that I really don't care that much anymore. If you guys think Khan and company are going to make Jax world-class and Lot J is going to be the next greatest thing then more power to you. Personally, Jax hasn't acheived a single thing since I moved here 16 years ago.
Quote from: Kerry on July 27, 2019, 06:31:43 PM
I've actually given it a lot of thought and came to the conclusion that I really don't care that much anymore. If you guys think Khan and company are going to make Jax world-class and Lot J is going to be the next greatest thing then more power to you. Personally, Jax hasn't acheived a single thing since I moved here 16 years ago.
On the contrary. In the 2018 elections Jacksonville voted democratic for the first time in ages. At least 15 breweries have opened. Springfield, Murray Hill and Brooklyn have seen a big resurgence. Also, you spelled achieved wrong. ;D
I mean, no Fuddruckers, but we did get an IKEA.
Quote from: Kiva on July 27, 2019, 07:30:34 PM
Quote from: Kerry on July 27, 2019, 06:31:43 PM
I've actually given it a lot of thought and came to the conclusion that I really don't care that much anymore. If you guys think Khan and company are going to make Jax world-class and Lot J is going to be the next greatest thing then more power to you. Personally, Jax hasn't acheived a single thing since I moved here 16 years ago.
Springfield, Murray Hill and Brooklyn have seen a big resurgence.
Thanks, I needed a laugh. Spent the evening watching the Jumbo Shrimp get whacked.
My guess is JEA will have a an offer before OKC gets an IKEA...
FPL shows early interest in JEA
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190727/fpl-shows-early-interest-in-jea
Probably - IKEA is for poor millenials that can't afford real furniture. They do have good meatballs though.
Quote from: Kerry on July 28, 2019, 08:31:19 AM
Probably - IKEA is for poor millenials that can't afford real furniture. They do have good meatballs though.
IKEA has been around a long time - it's not just for so-called "millenials". Or poor people.
Quote from: Adam White on July 28, 2019, 08:38:55 AM
Quote from: Kerry on July 28, 2019, 08:31:19 AM
Probably - IKEA is for poor millenials that can't afford real furniture. They do have good meatballs though.
IKEA has been around a long time - it's not just for so-called "millenials". Or poor people.
Maybe "poor millennials" was an insentive term. I should have said "people with small spaces that are budget-constrained".
I do have a few IKEA items so it obviously can't just be "poor millenials".
Quote from: thelakelander on July 28, 2019, 08:06:33 AM
My guess is JEA will have a an offer before OKC gets an IKEA...
FPL shows early interest in JEA
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190727/fpl-shows-early-interest-in-jea
You mean all that money they've been spending running TV commercials in this market for the past few years wasn't just them flushing money down the drain?
FPL services several areas in the JAX TV market.
Quote from: Kerry on July 27, 2019, 11:40:03 PM
Quote from: Kiva on July 27, 2019, 07:30:34 PM
Quote from: Kerry on July 27, 2019, 06:31:43 PM
I've actually given it a lot of thought and came to the conclusion that I really don't care that much anymore. If you guys think Khan and company are going to make Jax world-class and Lot J is going to be the next greatest thing then more power to you. Personally, Jax hasn't acheived a single thing since I moved here 16 years ago.
Springfield, Murray Hill and Brooklyn have seen a big resurgence.
Thanks, I needed a laugh. Spent the evening watching the Jumbo Shrimp get whacked.
LOL, if you don't believe that MH and Springfield are resurging, you really don't know what you're looking at. Our Downtown is pretty sad but Jax has a lot of other successes, including in the Urban Core like, including Riverside, Avondale and San Marco.
I read these comments after getting home from watching dolphins play on the St. Johns at sunset at Riverfront Park. It struck me that Kerry could see that scene and still find a way that Oklahoma City would do it better.
Quote from: Tacachale on July 29, 2019, 12:32:35 PM
Quote from: Kerry on July 27, 2019, 11:40:03 PM
Quote from: Kiva on July 27, 2019, 07:30:34 PM
Quote from: Kerry on July 27, 2019, 06:31:43 PM
I've actually given it a lot of thought and came to the conclusion that I really don't care that much anymore. If you guys think Khan and company are going to make Jax world-class and Lot J is going to be the next greatest thing then more power to you. Personally, Jax hasn't acheived a single thing since I moved here 16 years ago.
Springfield, Murray Hill and Brooklyn have seen a big resurgence.
Thanks, I needed a laugh. Spent the evening watching the Jumbo Shrimp get whacked.
LOL, if you don't believe that MH and Springfield are resurging, you really don't know what you're looking at. Our Downtown is pretty sad but Jax has a lot of other successes, including in the Urban Core like, including Riverside, Avondale and San Marco.
I read these comments after getting home from watching dolphins play on the St. Johns at sunset at Riverfront Park. It struck me that Kerry could see that scene and still find a way that Oklahoma City would do it better.
The bar for "resurgence" in Jax is so low that Springfield and Murray Hill can clear it. It would be a total disappointment in almost every other city. If you are happy with that so be it. I personally want/expect Jax to do better. As for your poke at OKC, whatever, but if Jax had 1/20 the develoments of OKC you would soil yourself out of excitement.
Quote from: Kerry on July 29, 2019, 01:09:21 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on July 29, 2019, 12:32:35 PM
Quote from: Kerry on July 27, 2019, 11:40:03 PM
Quote from: Kiva on July 27, 2019, 07:30:34 PM
Quote from: Kerry on July 27, 2019, 06:31:43 PM
I've actually given it a lot of thought and came to the conclusion that I really don't care that much anymore. If you guys think Khan and company are going to make Jax world-class and Lot J is going to be the next greatest thing then more power to you. Personally, Jax hasn't acheived a single thing since I moved here 16 years ago.
Springfield, Murray Hill and Brooklyn have seen a big resurgence.
Thanks, I needed a laugh. Spent the evening watching the Jumbo Shrimp get whacked.
LOL, if you don't believe that MH and Springfield are resurging, you really don't know what you're looking at. Our Downtown is pretty sad but Jax has a lot of other successes, including in the Urban Core like, including Riverside, Avondale and San Marco.
I read these comments after getting home from watching dolphins play on the St. Johns at sunset at Riverfront Park. It struck me that Kerry could see that scene and still find a way that Oklahoma City would do it better.
The bar for "resurgence" in Jax is so low that Springfield and Murray Hill can clear it. It would be a total disappointment in almost every other city. If you are happy with that so be it. I personally want/expect Jax to do better. As for your poke at OKC, whatever, but if Jax had 1/20 the develoments of OKC you would soil yourself out of excitement.
And of course you miss the point, which isn't about Oklahoma City at all - it's about how you invent ways that everything good that happens in Jax is actually a horrible disappointment, while "almost every other city" would do it better. You are irrationally negative, and living proof that the inferiority complex is alive and well.
No - I'm just telling the truth. What Jax doesn't need is more people lying to themselves. If TheJaxMag participants represent the local urbanist activist then it is no wonder little progress has been made and why the City basically doesn't care. Even the civic leaders that are in a position to care -don't. For example, counting downtown housing units that 1) aren't downtown and 2) don't even exists. That kind of fraud should be cause for immediate dismissal in a City that was actually trying to urbanize. It is just lying - period, and I for one am sick and tired of City officials lying.
Anyhow, we are way off topic now, unless we want to talk about City officials lying about JEA'a current situation.
Would JEA need to be sold if we had leadership like this who were concerned about far-flung infrastructure requirements, and acted on that concern?
https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/2017/05/25/greenville-named-fourth-fastest-growing-u-s-city/344009001/
Quote from: Kerry on July 29, 2019, 01:54:36 PM
No - I'm just telling the truth. What Jax doesn't need is more people lying to themselves. If TheJaxMag participants represent the local urbanist activist then it is no wonder little progress has been made and why the City basically doesn't care. Even the civic leaders that are in a position to care -don't. For example, counting downtown housing units that 1) aren't downtown and 2) don't even exists. That kind of fraud should be cause for immediate dismissal in a City that was actually trying to urbanize. It is just lying - period, and I for one am sick and tired of City officials lying.
Your interpretations of things are no more "the truth" that what the cheerleaders say. At least they don't hate the city.
Quote from: Tacachale on July 29, 2019, 02:14:25 PM
Quote from: Kerry on July 29, 2019, 01:54:36 PM
No - I'm just telling the truth. What Jax doesn't need is more people lying to themselves. If TheJaxMag participants represent the local urbanist activist then it is no wonder little progress has been made and why the City basically doesn't care. Even the civic leaders that are in a position to care -don't. For example, counting downtown housing units that 1) aren't downtown and 2) don't even exists. That kind of fraud should be cause for immediate dismissal in a City that was actually trying to urbanize. It is just lying - period, and I for one am sick and tired of City officials lying.
Your interpretations of things are no more "the truth" that what the cheerleaders say. At least they don't hate the city.
If we're talking 20 years, then you'd have to consider where Riverside and Avondale were 20 years ago. I'm sure it's nothing compared to a comparable neighborhood in OKC, but I'd say the transformation is pretty impressive. But maybe my bar is too low their too.
As the premier historic neighborhood in Jax, yes it underwhelms. I spent most of the last 7 months in the western suburbs of Chicago and after seeing places like Glen Ellyn, Wheaton, Downers Grove, Lisle, Naperville, and dozens of others it is a shame the homeowners in Riverside/Avondale/San Marco/Springfield can't get their act together. Maybe comparing Jax to railroad suburbs isn't fair to Jax, but OKC is almost identical to Jax in every measurable statistical category so if you want to stick with OKC as an example then so be it.
These are the premier historic neighborhoods around downtown OKC.
https://www.mestapark.org/
http://www.heritagehills.org/
https://ch-eh.org/
https://www.thepaseo.org/
http://midtownokc.com/
http://www.deepdeucedistrict.com/
http://www.plazadistrict.org/
http://www.visitwesternavenue.com/
http://www.automobilealley.org/
https://uptown23rd.com/
http://www.bricktownokc.com/
https://westvillageokc.com/
https://www.filmrowokc.com/
and a brand new neighborhood built on the old downtown airpark
https://www.wheelerdistrict.com/
Finally, I don't hate necessarily hate Jax - what I hate is a bunch of do-nothing Civic Leaders (not just elected leaders but the development community, activist, corporate heads, etc) dawdling while nothing gets done.
I'm not comparing the number of historic districts. Personally, visiting a lot of other cities I think Riverside/Avondale compares to many of them. Perfect? No. But, the folks in Riverside and Avondale can hardly be called "do-nothings". Maybe you don't like the things they "do", but they aren't doing nothing.
Quote from: Steve on July 29, 2019, 10:35:30 PM
I'm not comparing the number of historic districts. Personally, visiting a lot of other cities I think Riverside/Avondale compares to many of them. Perfect? No. But, the folks in Riverside and Avondale can hardly be called "do-nothings". Maybe you don't like the things they "do", but they aren't doing nothing.
I guess we will just have to disagree.
The APA listed Riverside/Avondale as one of their 10 great neighborhoods in 2011 or 2012. Call them up and tell them you disagree. I'm sure they'll take your complaint quite seriously.
I'm on the road more than I'm in Jax these days and I've always made it a point to spend time in the historic cores of the communities I'm either visiting, working in or passing through. Based off what I've seen across the Sunbelt, Riverside/Avondale is right up there with the best of residential historic districts in cities like Atlanta, Tampa, Richmond, Houston, Dallas, Nashville, etc. IMO, Orlando, Charlotte, Raleigh, etc. don't have comparables the scale of Riverside/Avondale. Sorry, not buying Thornton Park, Dilworth, etc. Nice places, but much smaller with less architectural diversity IMO....and no river.
With that being said, if one is going to start comparing Sunbelt residential historic districts with those in older established Northern and Midwestern cities, the Northern/Midwestern comparables would be their inner ring suburbs/streetcar suburban communities. Very few districts in the South outside of Miami, New Orleans, DC, Savannah, Charleston, etc. are going to have the type of historic pedestrian scale density associated with the Northeast and Rust Belt communities.
Okay, whatever I guess.
I'm all for learning. What residential historic district in Tampa, Orlando, Atlanta, Charlotte or Dallas would you say are light years ahead or superior to Riverside? Also, why? Everyone has different perspectives on similar issues so it would be good to better understand where you're coming from and what you value within a historic district?
Quote from: thelakelander on July 30, 2019, 11:18:52 AM
I'm all for learning. What residential historic district in Tampa, Orlando, Atlanta, Charlotte or Dallas would you say is light years ahead or superior to Riverside? Also, why? Everyone has different perspectives on similar issues so it would be good to better understand where you're coming from and what you value within a historic district?
What makes a good historic district? Let me start off by saying I don't care for the term 'Historic "or "Preservation", my primary concern is good urbanism, be it brand new or old. I also believe in the Urban to Rural Transect and the associated T-Zones. Finally, I also think "incrementalism" is the best way to grow urbanism, which is in direct conflict with "historic" and "preservation" efforts. Cities should not be built to a finish state (urban sprawl), or frozen in time (historic preservation) which is just a form of finished state.
Now having said that, there are many characteristics that create great neighborhoods but it might be easier to identify what I think Riverside/Avondale lacks which in my opinion keeps it from being a great urban neighborhood.
1) High percentage of renter-occupied single family homes. I don't know what the actual percentage is but I can tell you from my own personal experience there are a significant number of rental properties in Riverside and Springfield. In the two deed-restricted subdivisions I have lived in rental units have been limited to 10% of the housing stock. In a great urban residential neighborhood the owners WANT to live there, not rent it out. Renters have no vested interest.
2) Use of previous single family homes as primary business. In the 80's it was thought that the only to save places like Riverside was to allow businesses to take over single family homes, and for the most part it worked. In fact, it worked too well. However, those days are over and housing is in demand now. These homes should be returned to the housing stock, which brings me to my third point.
3) Densification of existing commercial corridors. This is something RAP and other groups fight tooth and nail. King Street, 5-Points, Avondale, and a few other pockets need to start going vertical to accommodate the growth and keep housing prices low (probably the main reason for opposition from home owners). Businesses should be encouraged to move from single family homes to new mid-rise commercial buildings built in the existing commercial areas (clustering). This may require the City to build parking garages. First floor retail, 2nd floor professional services, 3 thur 7 residential/hotel.
4) Upkeep of the housing stock. This is where I think Riverside fails miserably, especially compared to the prime downtown adjacent neighborhoods in other cities. While there are a few very nice homes with well-maintained landscaping, the vast majority is downright junky and unkempt. This likely results from a high percentage of renters coupled with what I find to be common in Jax - a general lack of pride in ownership. A lot of people just don't care and they lack the financial resources, ability, time, and desire to keep their properties maintained. Basically, trees/bushes aren't pruned, sidewalks aren't edged, fencing isn't maintained, and lawns are patchy (if they exist at all). In addition, it isn't uncommon to see cars parked on the grass between the sidewalk and street because a single family home has been converted to 2 or 3 apartments.
5) Parks are poor maintained. This is the City dropping the ball big time. The parks throughout Riverside are barely parks at all. They almost resemble vacant lots with a sign telling you it is supposed to be a park. Memorial Park STILL ISN'T FIXED, and it has been 2 years. When I travel the country and look at the amazing neighborhood parks it is a constant reminder about the monumental failure the COJ parks dept is.
6) Limited public transportation. In Jax public transportation is basically a bus. In places like Atlanta, OKC, Dallas, and many many more, urban public transportation has switched to streetcars and greenways. I was reading last week that Greenville, SC (one of my new favorite places) is in the beginning stages of bring back fixed rail as well. Jax? Crickets. And it isn't just streetcars; bike share systems and the dreaded electric scooters are in almost every village, town, and city in the country, but not Jax. We wanted to take a bike ride in Greenville last weekend and all the bikes were checked out every time we tried.
7) This is related to #4, but what passes for quality remodeling and renovation is woefully pathetic. I know this will hit home for some you because you are the ones trying to pass off these poorly executed remodels. You can't just throw up some new paint and a kitchen counter top and call that 'renovated', then try to command a premium price. My wife and I looked at dozens and dozens of homes in Riverside, Murray Hill, Springfield, and San Marco and all of them were half-ass while demanding full-ass prices. Most needed to be gutted down to the studs and renovated correctly.
Where does Riverside (and the other downtown adjacent neighborhoods) excel? There is some pretty amazing religious architecture. Honestly, outside of Paris it is some of the best I have seen, and there is a lot of it.
I strongly agree with your points 4 and 5. We owned a home in Avondale from 2015-2018 and the lack of upkeep with landscaping was very noticeable. This did appear to be a bigger issue with the rental properties. Regarding the parks, which is a city wide issue, they definitely left a lot to be desired in the riverside area (Memorial is actually the best maintained park in the area).
Quote from: Kerry on July 31, 2019, 09:57:00 AM
Where does Riverside (and the other downtown adjacent neighborhoods) excel? There is some pretty amazing religious architecture. Honestly, outside of Paris it is some of the best I have seen, and there is a lot of it.
Really? Nothing against Jax, but I find that hard to believe. Unless the only place you've been to outside of Paris is Oklahoma City.
Much to my own amazement, I mostly agree with you.
Except number 7. Also the part about religious architecture. Yeah they have good churches, but they aren't even the best in NEFL.
I'm not saying Jax has the best religious architecture on the planet, but there are at least 40 churches in the downtown-adjacent neighborhoods that have beautiful architectural details. That isn't too bad. One thing that is missing from them are the adjacent cemeteries which many churches of this vintage have. I actually find that a little odd.
Quote from: Kerry on July 31, 2019, 09:57:00 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on July 30, 2019, 11:18:52 AM
I'm all for learning. What residential historic district in Tampa, Orlando, Atlanta, Charlotte or Dallas would you say is light years ahead or superior to Riverside? Also, why? Everyone has different perspectives on similar issues so it would be good to better understand where you're coming from and what you value within a historic district?
What makes a good historic district? Let me start off by saying I don't care for the term 'Historic "or "Preservation", my primary concern is good urbanism, be it brand new or old. I also believe in the Urban to Rural Transect and the associated T-Zones. Finally, I also think "incrementalism" is the best way to grow urbanism, which is in direct conflict with "historic" and "preservation" efforts. Cities should not be built to a finish state (urban sprawl), or frozen in time (historic preservation) which is just a form of finished state.
Now having said that, there are many characteristics that create great neighborhoods but it might be easier to identify what I think Riverside/Avondale lacks which in my opinion keeps it from being a great urban neighborhood.
I'm going to respond to these point by point. A lot of what you say is reasonable, but some is just...
Quote from: Kerry on July 31, 2019, 09:57:00 AM
1) High percentage of renter-occupied single family homes. I don't know what the actual percentage is but I can tell you from my own personal experience there are a significant number of rental properties in Riverside and Springfield. In the two deed-restricted subdivisions I have lived in rental units have been limited to 10% of the housing stock. In a great urban residential neighborhood the owners WANT to live there, not rent it out. Renters have no vested interest.
Ok, this is some elitist bullshit. I have no idea if it's accurate or not that Riverside has more renters than comparable communities - I tend to doubt it - but renters aren't some vampiric horde who need to be kept out of the "good" neighborhoods. In fact, that's the way a lot of people, especially younger people and bohemian types who start the early work of resurrecting neighborhoods, get into these places in the first place. New York City is mostly renters (https://patch.com/new-york/new-york-city/two-thirds-new-yorkers-now-rent-their-apartments-data-show), and
some people think it's pretty vibrant. At any rate I tend to doubt the breakdowns are much different in Riverside than in the other cities you claim do everything better.
Quote from: Kerry on July 31, 2019, 09:57:00 AM
2) Use of previous single family homes as primary business. In the 80's it was thought that the only to save places like Riverside was to allow businesses to take over single family homes, and for the most part it worked. In fact, it worked too well. However, those days are over and housing is in demand now. These homes should be returned to the housing stock, which brings me to my third point.
This one I mostly agree with - we need more urban housing and in many cases it would be good to turn some former homes back to that use. But that's not the full story. In a lot of cases, homes were rezoned to expand a business district, or got CRO zoning to give owners an option. Those shouldn't all necessarily be rolled back. The Five Points commercial district, for instance, serves a much wider population than it did when it was more of a neighborhood center, so growth isn't a bad thing.
Quote from: Kerry on July 31, 2019, 09:57:00 AM
3) Densification of existing commercial corridors. This is something RAP and other groups fight tooth and nail. King Street, 5-Points, Avondale, and a few other pockets need to start going vertical to accommodate the growth and keep housing prices low (probably the main reason for opposition from home owners). Businesses should be encouraged to move from single family homes to new mid-rise commercial buildings built in the existing commercial areas (clustering). This may require the City to build parking garages. First floor retail, 2nd floor professional services, 3 thur 7 residential/hotel.
Not bad ideas. They would probably work better in some areas than others.
Quote from: Kerry on July 31, 2019, 09:57:00 AM
4) Upkeep of the housing stock. This is where I think Riverside fails miserably, especially compared to the prime downtown adjacent neighborhoods in other cities. While there are a few very nice homes with well-maintained landscaping, the vast majority is downright junky and unkempt. This likely results from a high percentage of renters coupled with what I find to be common in Jax - a general lack of pride in ownership. A lot of people just don't care and they lack the financial resources, ability, time, and desire to keep their properties maintained. Basically, trees/bushes aren't pruned, sidewalks aren't edged, fencing isn't maintained, and lawns are patchy (if they exist at all). In addition, it isn't uncommon to see cars parked on the grass between the sidewalk and street because a single family home has been converted to 2 or 3 apartments.
Back on the elitist babble. As the proud owner, not renter, of a barely maintained yard, I say suck it to all lawn police. Don't want a "junky and unkempt" yard? Do what you want on
your property. In fact, our long term plan is to rip up most of our useless grass for a garden, which a lot of the HOA types would throw a fit over.
Quote from: Kerry on July 31, 2019, 09:57:00 AM
5) Parks are poor maintained. This is the City dropping the ball big time. The parks throughout Riverside are barely parks at all. They almost resemble vacant lots with a sign telling you it is supposed to be a park. Memorial Park STILL ISN'T FIXED, and it has been 2 years. When I travel the country and look at the amazing neighborhood parks it is a constant reminder about the monumental failure the COJ parks dept is.
This one is 100% correct, sadly.
Quote from: Kerry on July 31, 2019, 09:57:00 AM
6) Limited public transportation. In Jax public transportation is basically a bus. In places like Atlanta, OKC, Dallas, and many many more, urban public transportation has switched to streetcars and greenways. I was reading last week that Greenville, SC (one of my new favorite places) is in the beginning stages of bring back fixed rail as well. Jax? Crickets. And it isn't just streetcars; bike share systems and the dreaded electric scooters are in almost every village, town, and city in the country, but not Jax. We wanted to take a bike ride in Greenville last weekend and all the bikes were checked out every time we tried.
Also correct. In fact, bad transit and connectivity is the second worst thing about living in Jax, after the inferiority complex.
Quote from: Kerry on July 31, 2019, 09:57:00 AM
7) This is related to #4, but what passes for quality remodeling and renovation is woefully pathetic. I know this will hit home for some you because you are the ones trying to pass off these poorly executed remodels. You can't just throw up some new paint and a kitchen counter top and call that 'renovated', then try to command a premium price. My wife and I looked at dozens and dozens of homes in Riverside, Murray Hill, Springfield, and San Marco and all of them were half-ass while demanding full-ass prices. Most needed to be gutted down to the studs and renovated correctly.
Seriously?! I'm sorry to be the first person to tell you this, but old houses are going to have old house problems. But they also have advantages over the modern crap that gets built or the unnecessary over-remodelings that some people expect that essentially replace an old house with a lame modern one (that happens in San Marco more than Riverside, where people have more sense). The price point is also a
lot less than in many of our peer cities, even if you had to remodel it yourself.
Quote from: Kerry on July 31, 2019, 09:57:00 AM
Where does Riverside (and the other downtown adjacent neighborhoods) excel? There is some pretty amazing religious architecture. Honestly, outside of Paris it is some of the best I have seen, and there is a lot of it.
Not a bad point.
Not wanting to maintain your yard is a common theme in Riverside/San Marco/Springfield.
Quote from: Kerry on August 01, 2019, 07:23:17 AM
Not wanting to maintain your yard is a common theme in Riverside/San Marco/Springfield.
Hands off my property rights, socialist!
Quote from: Bill Hoff on August 01, 2019, 07:56:22 AM
Quote from: Kerry on August 01, 2019, 07:23:17 AM
Not wanting to maintain your yard is a common theme in Riverside/San Marco/Springfield.
Hands off my property rights, socialist!
Not sure if this is sarcasim or not, but if it isn't - you have to love the irony of RAP, SPAR, and whatever other groups are there that routinely oppose other people wanting to make changes to their homes.
Quote from: Kerry on August 01, 2019, 10:43:35 AM
Quote from: Bill Hoff on August 01, 2019, 07:56:22 AM
Quote from: Kerry on August 01, 2019, 07:23:17 AM
Not wanting to maintain your yard is a common theme in Riverside/San Marco/Springfield.
Hands off my property rights, socialist!
Not sure if this is sarcasim or not, but if it isn't - you have to love the irony of RAP, SPAR, and whatever other groups are there that routinely oppose other people wanting to make changes to their homes.
When it comes to Riverside, Avondale, and Springfield it's actually the law that does this, not RAP or SPAR
Quote from: Steve on August 01, 2019, 10:48:54 AM
Quote from: Kerry on August 01, 2019, 10:43:35 AM
Quote from: Bill Hoff on August 01, 2019, 07:56:22 AM
Quote from: Kerry on August 01, 2019, 07:23:17 AM
Not wanting to maintain your yard is a common theme in Riverside/San Marco/Springfield.
Hands off my property rights, socialist!
Not sure if this is sarcasim or not, but if it isn't - you have to love the irony of RAP, SPAR, and whatever other groups are there that routinely oppose other people wanting to make changes to their homes.
When it comes to Riverside, Avondale, and Springfield it's actually the law that does this, not RAP or SPAR
That isn't my understanding from people involved in Historic Preservation groups in other cities, but I'm not personally involved so I'm not in a position to confirm or deny your claim.
Quote from: Kerry on August 01, 2019, 10:43:35 AM
Quote from: Bill Hoff on August 01, 2019, 07:56:22 AM
Quote from: Kerry on August 01, 2019, 07:23:17 AM
Not wanting to maintain your yard is a common theme in Riverside/San Marco/Springfield.
Hands off my property rights, socialist!
Not sure if this is sarcasim or not, but if it isn't - you have to love the irony of RAP, SPAR, and whatever other groups are there that routinely oppose other people wanting to make changes to their homes.
'Twas simply sarcasm. Which I enjoy.
This keeps getting better and better:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/the-mendenhall-report-jea-board-didnt-know-cost-of-incentive-program
Aaron Zahn clearly has no idea what he's doing, and the board is unimpressive either. They had a $636M incentive program, and the Board didn't realize it and Zahn thought it made sense to move forward until word got out? Holy hell.
I get that the board didn't see final numbers. That alone isn't unusual. But the board should have seen enough figures so that could at least back into a ballpark number. Sounds like no one on the board did the math here. If they did, then they are more than negligent.
Zahn on the other hand is a special kind of stupid. Playing Devil's Advocate: Even if the calculations were an honest mistake (I can't see how), once he realized how much that would add up to be he should have, himself, asked the board to withdraw the program. He's doing it now....after it's public. At a minimum, the optics are terrible here.
The whole JEA thing makes the Corrine Brown stuff look like peanuts. We have some big double standards in this town.
Wasn't the Brown stuff involving Federal charges?
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/city-council-president-says-he-may-support-resolution-urging-the-jea-board-to-end-effort-to-sell-utility
Sounds like Scott Wilson is sold on the bill to ask JEA to stop the madness, but not necessarily on passing it as an Emergency. I'm thinking Jackson's reasoning is to get it to them before their next board meeting.
Even better....JEA moved the next round of presentations to Atlanta
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191207/jea-moves-sales-talks-to-atlanta-draft-document-shows-sales-pitch-given-to-interested-buyers
JEA says it's to make it easier for international attendees. The ATL-JAX flight is almost hourly from 6am to midnight. So basically these companies who are considering making a multi billion dollar investment can't have a connecting flight?
Quote from: Steve on December 07, 2019, 03:49:08 PM
Even better....JEA moved the next round of presentations to Atlanta
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191207/jea-moves-sales-talks-to-atlanta-draft-document-shows-sales-pitch-given-to-interested-buyers
JEA says it's to make it easier for international attendees. The ATL-JAX flight is almost hourly from 6am to midnight. So basically these companies who are considering making a multi billion dollar investment can't have a connecting flight?
To paraphrase Shad K. again, Jacksonville needs a better hotel experience. According to the jacksonville.com article, Atlanta has a number of business accommodations.
Quote from: Steve on December 07, 2019, 03:49:08 PM
Even better....JEA moved the next round of presentations to Atlanta
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191207/jea-moves-sales-talks-to-atlanta-draft-document-shows-sales-pitch-given-to-interested-buyers
JEA says it's to make it easier for international attendees. The ATL-JAX flight is almost hourly from 6am to midnight. So basically these companies who are considering making a multi billion dollar investment can't have a connecting flight?
What a clown show. It's hard to believe they can't figure out early on how bad the optics of the things they keep doing are and how it takes away whatever credibility is left of the process.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 07, 2019, 06:30:55 PM
Quote from: Steve on December 07, 2019, 03:49:08 PM
Even better....JEA moved the next round of presentations to Atlanta
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191207/jea-moves-sales-talks-to-atlanta-draft-document-shows-sales-pitch-given-to-interested-buyers
JEA says it's to make it easier for international attendees. The ATL-JAX flight is almost hourly from 6am to midnight. So basically these companies who are considering making a multi billion dollar investment can't have a connecting flight?
What a clown show. It's hard to believe they can't figure out early on how bad the optics of the things they keep doing are and how it takes away whatever credibility is left of the process.
Do they care about the optics, though? From talking to my family and friends who live in Jax, the privatization of JEA (and the subsequent raising of rates) is a foregone conclusion. Is nobody up in arms over it? If nobody cares enough to raise a stink, then JEA certainly doesn't care about the optics. I mean, the optics of a barren grass lot where one of Jacksonville's trademark riverfront buildings once stood are terrible but... well, there we go.
Quote from: Bativac on December 10, 2019, 01:38:25 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on December 07, 2019, 06:30:55 PM
Quote from: Steve on December 07, 2019, 03:49:08 PM
Even better....JEA moved the next round of presentations to Atlanta
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191207/jea-moves-sales-talks-to-atlanta-draft-document-shows-sales-pitch-given-to-interested-buyers
JEA says it's to make it easier for international attendees. The ATL-JAX flight is almost hourly from 6am to midnight. So basically these companies who are considering making a multi billion dollar investment can't have a connecting flight?
What a clown show. It's hard to believe they can't figure out early on how bad the optics of the things they keep doing are and how it takes away whatever credibility is left of the process.
Do they care about the optics, though? From talking to my family and friends who live in Jax, the privatization of JEA (and the subsequent raising of rates) is a foregone conclusion. Is nobody up in arms over it? If nobody cares enough to raise a stink, then JEA certainly doesn't care about the optics. I mean, the optics of a barren grass lot where one of Jacksonville's trademark riverfront buildings once stood are terrible but... well, there we go.
I completely disagree it's a foregone conclusion. I bet if council voted today, they'd vote no.
Quote from: Steve on December 10, 2019, 10:07:34 AM
Quote from: Bativac on December 10, 2019, 01:38:25 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on December 07, 2019, 06:30:55 PM
Quote from: Steve on December 07, 2019, 03:49:08 PM
Even better....JEA moved the next round of presentations to Atlanta
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191207/jea-moves-sales-talks-to-atlanta-draft-document-shows-sales-pitch-given-to-interested-buyers
JEA says it's to make it easier for international attendees. The ATL-JAX flight is almost hourly from 6am to midnight. So basically these companies who are considering making a multi billion dollar investment can't have a connecting flight?
What a clown show. It's hard to believe they can't figure out early on how bad the optics of the things they keep doing are and how it takes away whatever credibility is left of the process.
Do they care about the optics, though? From talking to my family and friends who live in Jax, the privatization of JEA (and the subsequent raising of rates) is a foregone conclusion. Is nobody up in arms over it? If nobody cares enough to raise a stink, then JEA certainly doesn't care about the optics. I mean, the optics of a barren grass lot where one of Jacksonville's trademark riverfront buildings once stood are terrible but... well, there we go.
I completely disagree it's a foregone conclusion. I bet if council voted today, they'd vote no.
Certainly not a foregone conclusion at this point, and yes, people are up in arms. I don't see the council supporting this going to a vote if it came out today or soon. Doesn't mean that the leadership will back down, however.
One of the things the JEA Board Chair said, was that she was going to meet one-on-one with Council members. Who knows what will go on in those meetings? If only one Council member is present, and only one JEA Board member, the meeting does not have to be "public."
The more digging the press does, the dirtier this whole thing looks..
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jeas-law-firms-billing-utility-more-than-what-they-are-contractually-allowed
How can JEA approve invoices above the "not to exceed" amount?
Take the money from Zahn's pay package.
Quote from: realestatejax on December 11, 2019, 09:03:03 AM
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jeas-law-firms-billing-utility-more-than-what-they-are-contractually-allowed
Is there some problem with comprehending "Not To Exceed?" Hey, bill all you want, but your contract says $X, and that's all you'll be paid.
Now, if some functionary said "Hey, go ahead with that additional work, no problem getting paid," then those feet need to be held to the fire.
Quote from: J Random Sucker on December 11, 2019, 11:38:45 AM
Quote from: realestatejax on December 11, 2019, 09:03:03 AM
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jeas-law-firms-billing-utility-more-than-what-they-are-contractually-allowed
Is there some problem with comprehending "Not To Exceed?" Hey, bill all you want, but your contract says $X, and that's all you'll be paid.
Now, if some functionary said "Hey, go ahead with that additional work, no problem getting paid," then those feet need to be held to the fire.
It's almost like there are people in high profile positions at JEA who really need to go or something.
if "shall" = "may" then "not to" = "may" (at least that's what we will get through a "binding legal opinion" from the GC's office).
Is there a detailed expose' anywhere that documents the arrival and installing Zahn to head JEA?
Here's another local story on the overbilling
https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2019/12/11/laywers-lobbyists-benefit-from-jea-sales-talk/ (https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2019/12/11/laywers-lobbyists-benefit-from-jea-sales-talk/)
Just in today's news alone:
JEA CEO in bed with JEA contracted lobbyist in land deal with no disclosure of conflicts of interest:
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191212/jea-ceo-aaron-zahn-utility-lobbyist-are-partners-in-westside-land-deal (https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191212/jea-ceo-aaron-zahn-utility-lobbyist-are-partners-in-westside-land-deal)
Civic Council calls for ending JEA sales negotiations:
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191212/jacksonville-civic-council-calls-for-ending-jea-sales-negotiations (https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191212/jacksonville-civic-council-calls-for-ending-jea-sales-negotiations)
JEA management violated Board dictate and created deception in advancing privatization steps prior to Board approval:
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191211/nate-monroe-documents-timeline-common-sense-make-it-clear-mdash-jea-execs-deceived-public (https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191211/nate-monroe-documents-timeline-common-sense-make-it-clear-mdash-jea-execs-deceived-public)
No way JEA sale goes forward at this point. Even the Curry-owned City Council will need to vote for the resolution calling for the end to the selling process. If JEA ignores the resolution, again, the Council will have a hard time voting a sale through. If the Council dares to pass it, it surely will not pass with the electorate.
Zahn has been self serving, deceitful, a schemer and grossly incompetent at JEA, all to serve his master, Mayor Curry. The JEA Board looks foolish and grossly negligent and derelict in its oversight role. Looks like they are all about to crash and burn together given no one remaining (one JEA board member smartly resigned this week) either has resigned/backed away from this wretched fiasco. Only question is will any Council members be fool enough to also get on board this sinking ship.
Kudos to the Times Union for their outstanding coverage and investigative reporting. Hope they win awards for it.
News4jax is reporting that Lyin' Lenny is floating the idea of making JEA a city department controlled by the mayor and city council. It's obvious alll Lenny wants is to liquidate JEA assets to use for his pet projects, including lLot J.
Wow, I can't keep up with all this JEA stuff. This is ridiculous. Oh, and keep Lenny's hands as far away from the JEA cookie jar as possible.
Quote from: Papa33 on December 12, 2019, 08:02:23 PM
News4jax is reporting that Lyin' Lenny is floating the idea of making JEA a city department controlled by the mayor and city council. It's obvious alll Lenny wants is to liquidate JEA assets to use for his pet projects, including lLot J.
Here is the link to the News4Jax story: https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2019/12/12/mayor-has-another-option-for-jea-let-city-take-over-utility/ (https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2019/12/12/mayor-has-another-option-for-jea-let-city-take-over-utility/)
Here is the gist of it:
Quote"I believe City Council has always had the authority to determine the next steps of the strategic planning process, but they have demonstrated they want to exercise this authority sooner with more flexibility," Curry wrote. "Then, ultimately, the Council can also consider whether one option is sent to a ballot or if multiple options are sent to a ballot for voters consideration."
He said that wasn't necessarily his favorite option, but it was something that should be considered.
"I believe City Council has always had the authority to determine the next steps of the strategic planning process, but they have demonstrated they want to exercise this authority sooner with more flexibility," Curry wrote. "Then, ultimately, the Council can also consider whether one option is sent to a ballot or if multiple options are sent to a ballot for voters consideration."
Can you say "trying to save face" or "back pedaling" or "leaving the JEA Board adrift" or "looking for a graceful way out of a giant hole." No matter, I don't think many will ever forgive him for this or so many other unpopular decisions he has made while giving the finger to anyone who disagrees with him, however so slightly.
And this phrase especially rings hollow: "I believe City Council has always had the authority to determine the next steps of the strategic planning process..." Yeah, sure, as long has the City Council kowtows to his every whim, he believes it. He has never once complained publicly about the City Council being left in the dark about this process. Of course, because he figured they would be a rubber stamp for him, as they have pretty much been so to date, so why bother. Guess he pushed their buttons one too many times on this one.
"Multiple options on the ballot"? Really? Sounds like a way to get a "win" for the option with the best-funded campaign (sale); assuming it would only require a plurality of the vote, and not a true majority.
So, NO!
Sounds like he's trying to save this. I definitely don't feel like Council is cooperating with him on this one. He knows if he just advocates pulling it, then he failed.
I still think it's a stupid idea.
He really wants a number revealed, hell or high water. I think there's a belief that it will change the dynamic if someone offered several billions more than the $3 billion minimum.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 12, 2019, 11:00:50 PM
He really wants a number revealed, hell or high water. I think there's a belief that it will change the dynamic if someone offered several billions more than the $3 billion minimum.
And then, everyone will overlook JEA's myriad leadership issues and all the shenanigans that got us to this point.
It's the age of Trump. Gaslighting seems to be an acceptable way to get through lying, cheating, and deception. Then he will continue to try to wipe his hands clean by blaming other people and throwing them under the bus.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&id=D8397D03AB40D71B56BF29FDD34B8E9D44F88489&thid=OIP.YeQ7WQ6N5NYgxS7hp4vjUAHaKW&mediaurl=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-xx0AopECie8%2FUW9Q-JLY46I%2FAAAAAAAAAhw%2FTi_ST53dPqY%2Fs1600%2FDumpster-Fire.jpg&exph=500&expw=358&q=dumpster+fire+photo&selectedindex=0&ajaxhist=0&vt=0&eim=1,2,6
Quote from: thelakelander on December 12, 2019, 11:00:50 PM
He really wants a number revealed, hell or high water. I think there's a belief that it will change the dynamic if someone offered several billions more than the $3 billion minimum.
Exactly. This is going to be his "But have you seen the stock market?" moment.
Nevermind that the higher the purchase price, the more the new owner's will need to recover from ratepayers.
Looks like The Southern Group (the lobbying firm Deno Hicks works for) withdrew from their JEA contract. I'm wondering if they didn't know that Hicks and Zahn had that land deal together. the Southern Group is a private company so not sure what they ask their partners to disclose.
JEA on the other hand is a public company, and Zahn HAD to disclose that if JEA did business with Southern.
In other news, it seems like Randy DeFoor (Republican - District 14) isn't letting this go either. Remember, she beat Sunny Gettinger (Democrat) for that seat and it was perceived (perhaps incorrectly) she was Curry's choice. She's clearly not Choice now (and while I'm biased, I guarantee Gettinger wouldn't be a Curry lapdog either).
DeFoor's main point is that JEA's presentation to the public is contradictory to the report JEA presented to the bond rating agencies in New York - her take is one of the reports isn't true and at a minimum this is unethical, and possible criminal. Good for her for having the chops to stand up to Curry and JEA.
I'm really dumbfounded as to whether Aaron Zahn is morally deceitful or just really not that smart. I change my mind seemingly every day. I don't think Hollywood producers could write this level of corruption.
Quote from: Steve on December 13, 2019, 01:36:44 PM
In other news, it seems like Randy DeFoor (Republican - District 14) isn't letting this go either. Remember, she beat Sunny Gettinger (Democrat) for that seat and it was perceived (perhaps incorrectly) she was Curry's choice. She's clearly not Choice now (and while I'm biased, I guarantee Gettinger wouldn't be a Curry lapdog either).
DeFoor's main point is that JEA's presentation to the public is contradictory to the report JEA presented to the bond rating agencies in New York - her take is one of the reports isn't true and at a minimum this is unethical, and possible criminal. Good for her for having the chops to stand up to Curry and JEA.
DeFoor campaigned as Curry's favored candidate. Since the election she has proven she's an independent voice. Apparently the machine is none too happy about that. (https://floridapolitics.com/archives/306740-jacksonville-bold-for-9-27-19-keeping-the-band-together)
Quote from: Tacachale on December 13, 2019, 03:30:24 PM
Quote from: Steve on December 13, 2019, 01:36:44 PM
In other news, it seems like Randy DeFoor (Republican - District 14) isn't letting this go either. Remember, she beat Sunny Gettinger (Democrat) for that seat and it was perceived (perhaps incorrectly) she was Curry's choice. She's clearly not Choice now (and while I'm biased, I guarantee Gettinger wouldn't be a Curry lapdog either).
DeFoor's main point is that JEA's presentation to the public is contradictory to the report JEA presented to the bond rating agencies in New York - her take is one of the reports isn't true and at a minimum this is unethical, and possible criminal. Good for her for having the chops to stand up to Curry and JEA.
DeFoor campaigned as Curry's favored candidate. Since the election she has proven she's an independent voice. Apparently the machine is none too happy about that. (https://floridapolitics.com/archives/306740-jacksonville-bold-for-9-27-19-keeping-the-band-together)
I had forgotten that she campaigned on that message. This quote is saying something
QuoteThe Mayor's team has noticed, with some saying they might have been better off if Democrat Sunny Gettinger had won because at least there would have been no surprises.
What, the Mayor's office is upset that a few council members remembered that the Mayor isn't "der Führer" of the City Council?
Related, I thought the letter to the JEA board he sent last night was really a letter to the City Council. When I read between the lines it sounded like he was daring the City Council to defy him. If I'm Carlucci, I'm like:
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/9bab25f2602b49112400e632504518b4/tenor.gif?itemid=4820522)
If you want to know why JAX is decades behind other cities on the urban core revival front, all you have to do is look at all the dsyfunction on the other issues facing the city.
Speaking of that, when is the judge going to rule on the School Board stuff?
Multiple reports that JEA Board Member Henry Brown is going to make a motion to terminate Aaron Zahn. Current plan is to terminate him for convenience/without cause. Zahn would get 20 weeks pay.
I'm guessing there will be some debate on this, but Brown seems to be going the pragmatic route. At $500k, that works out to ~$192k. Likely litigation would cost more than that....unless there is a true smoking gun.
UPDATE: T-U reporting Curry will have a statement "within the hour"
There seems to be plenty of "cause" for termination (including incompetence, if in fact, that is considered "cause"). But yes, I agree, 20 weeks pay, if that is what his contract calls for, would be less than any litigation involving the issue of "cause."
Quote from: Papa33 on December 16, 2019, 11:07:12 AM
There seems to be plenty of "cause" for termination (including incompetence, if in fact, that is considered "cause"). But yes, I agree, 20 weeks pay, if that is what his contract calls for, would be less than any litigation involving the issue of "cause."
Sucking at your job is rarely considered, "for cause". Usually it has to be something explicitly forbidden in an employment contract or something against the law. If they have the smoking gun it's one thing. Otherwise, if Zahn can fight it he will.
Quote from: Steve on December 16, 2019, 11:14:02 AM
Quote from: Papa33 on December 16, 2019, 11:07:12 AM
There seems to be plenty of "cause" for termination (including incompetence, if in fact, that is considered "cause"). But yes, I agree, 20 weeks pay, if that is what his contract calls for, would be less than any litigation involving the issue of "cause."
Sucking at your job is rarely considered, "for cause". Usually it has to be something explicitly forbidden in an employment contract or something against the law. If they have the smoking gun it's one thing. Otherwise, if Zahn can fight it he will.
Here it is in the Times Union: https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191216/jea-board-member-will-try-to-terminate-embattled-ceo-aaron-zahn
(https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191216/jea-board-member-will-try-to-terminate-embattled-ceo-aaron-zahn)
Aside from incompetent leadership, I would suggest unethical and (it remains to be determined) violation of company policy/performing illegal acts offer plenty of support for "cause." Zahn clearly has walked the line by not being transparent, not, as required, informing the City Council or its auditor of the privatization process before exploring it, ignoring a JEA Board directive not to work on privatization, promoting self enriching stock schemes, investing in a real estate partnership with a lobbyist and not declaring it, etc.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on December 16, 2019, 01:16:59 PM
promoting self enriching stock schemes
The problem here is the board is culpable on this one too.
From the floridapolitics.com article. Should not and would not take an investigative journalist to answer the question. I agree with the post above that this is on the JEA board as well. Who chooses the board?
"That new leadership is not far away: "Given that the JEA Charter requires a Managing Director, I am planning to propose that Melissa Dykes be named as interim Managing Director and CEO effectively immediately. She is a talented and experienced utility executive, and I would hope the board would give her the opportunity to earn the permanent role before exploring a wider search."
Many wondered why Dykes was not considered in the first place. She was given a promotion and a new title when Zahn became interim CEO."
'Legal theft': CEO Aaron Zahn defends C-suite bonus scheme, refuses to resign
https://floridapolitics.com/archives/313666-zahn-refuses-resign
Reading the tweets from some folks at the T-U (who BTW, have done an awesome job covering this) - there's no way Zahn has a job by COB tomorrow. Curry's strongest allies are all like, "WTF" as details come out. This is beyond bananas.
The question is who else should go? Bottom line is while the board can say they were pissed about this bonus plan, do they not have a fiduciary responsibility to ask to see numbers? Assuming they weren't presented with fabricated numbers, they have a stake in this too.
Time to clean the house and start fresh.
I'll give Mayor Curry a ton of credit. I didn't think it would be possible for a 19 member, split party City Council to agree unanimously on something. I think Curry just proved me wrong.
Now is the time to be very wary. Zahn will be the fall guy, but all the other accomplices on the JEA board and the Mayor will try to skate out clean; some potentially thinking they can salvage this "recapitalization" effort.
Diamond asked for a motion to panel an investigative inquiry, which I think is one step below the grand jury Carlucci was asking. Based on Diamond's actions today, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and think he aims to get to discover if any crimes were committed but being a Curry ally makes me wary that his true intentions are an attempt to keep this out of the courts.
NAACP calling for a Congressional/Federal criminal investigation, not just of JEA executives and its board, but the Curry administration:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/naacp-calls-for-federal-criminal-probe-into-possible-jea-sale (https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/naacp-calls-for-federal-criminal-probe-into-possible-jea-sale)
And, they added these items to their list of concerns:
QuoteThe letter lists several areas of concern by NAACP officials with the Curry administration's actions.
Those include his support for delaying a referendum to bond for $1.9 billion in improvement to Duval County Schools; appointing his then Chief of Staff Brian Hughes as interim director of the Downtown Investment Authority — a role where he would advise policymakers on allocating taxpayer-backed incentives to private businesses; and hiring practices and a "lack of transparency" at the Kids Hope Alliance.
As one who recalls the city and county wide scandals leading to consolidation in 1968, I am starting to get deja vu :). Curry and Hughes mistreatment of all who did not toe their line looks to be boomeranging on them. Once they are radioactive, good luck getting anyone to blindly follow them going forward.
Quote from: Steve on December 16, 2019, 04:44:27 PM
The question is who else should go? Bottom line is while the board can say they were pissed about this bonus plan, do they not have a fiduciary responsibility to ask to see numbers? Assuming they weren't presented with fabricated numbers, they have a stake in this too.
The board hired the guy and has signed off on his decisions/priorities. They need a mirror.
At yesterday's Council meeting with the JEA Board, Rory Diamond made a good summery of the "employee incentive plan":
Diamond said the most conservative estimate would have valued the payout at nearly $100 million. He noted that's three times the amount the Kids Hope Alliance spends on children's programs in a fiscal year.
"I see a group of executives who know this thing is going to be sold, and then they say the best way to do this is a stock option," Diamond said. "The stock option doesn't exist under any law in Florida, so let's come up with a performance unit plan. Let's get a lawyer to push it through, get outside counsel to say this works. Let's check with the state attorney's office for the ethics, doing all the legal parts right but the math never changes."
From other info obtained, time for a board and management reset.
Zahn is done (without cause) after a 5-1 vote. April Green was the dissenter as she believed he needed to go, "with cause".
So he was given a golden parachute?
Quote from: thelakelander on December 17, 2019, 11:39:47 AM
So he was given a golden parachute?
That's Duval, baby!
According to the FTU reporters on Twitter, the lawyers will try to negotiate a limit on the golden parachute.
So walking away with nearly a million for being a complete screw up?
QuoteCash-Hungry Cities Seek Buyers for Sewer Systems to Pay Pensions
...In Pennsylvania, the city of Allentown and Middletown Borough sold long-term leases for their sewer and water systems to pay down pension debt in 2013 and 2014. Jacksonville, Florida, is exploring the sale of JEA -- the largest community-owned water, wastewater and electric power utility the state. The city is seeking at least $3 billion in net proceeds from the profitable utility after paying off $3.6 billion in outstanding debt on its books, according to financial filings.
Jacksonville has cited a changing utilities industry as one of the reasons for a sale of an asset that was able to contribute $132.8 million to the city's general fund last fiscal year. The city's three pension funds are a collective 55.7% funded and have $3.2 billion in unfunded liabilities, according to its most recent financial report.
Still, using proceeds from an asset sale to shore up a pension system carries risk of its own, said Thomas Aaron, a senior analyst at Moody's. An infusion of cash from a sale would immediately increase a plan's assets, but those funds would be invested according to the style of the plan -- meaning they are subject to market forces, Aaron said.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-12-17/cash-hungry-cities-seek-buyers-for-sewer-systems-to-pay-pensions
Quote from: Steve on December 17, 2019, 11:35:06 AM
Zahn is done (without cause) after a 5-1 vote. April Green was the dissenter as she believed he needed to go, "with cause".
Not sure this is the whole story per this quote on the Times Union blog:
Quote16 minutes ago
JEA board places Zahn on leave indefinitely while city attorneys investigate, negotiate
The JEA board voted unanimously to place JEA CEO Aaron Zahn on administrative leave indefinitely while city attorneys conduct a seven-day investigation to determine if they have grounds to fire him with cause.
They need to terminate with cause or he also gets a 1/2 million retention bonus if they sell. I don't see that happening with the voters but why risk it. Also, need to send a message in the strictest way to others, including Curry, that their backhanded games won't be tolerated.
Melissa Dykes takes over as interim CEO.
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191217/aaron-zahn-out-as-jea-ceo-melissa-dykes-takes-over-as-interim-ceo
Paid or unpaid "administrative leave"?
^Paid, but apparently it's a suspension to allow the General Counsel to investigate and renegotiate the termination benefits.
https://news.wjct.org/post/jea-board-ousts-ceo-aaron-zahn?fbclid=IwAR18yXvOJ06LxEE7b0eoMoMDE4yyCqnut_B6Yw8gaWpwUWcXS3fwqOlUDd8#_ga=2.259041994.1925753236.1576507886-1491777148.1576079364
Good start.
Civic Council now joining Carlucci in calling for a Grand Jury investigation:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jacksonville-civic-council-calls-for-grand-jury-investigation-into-jea
Also wanting Zahn fired for cause.
Clearly this isn't over.
Good to finally see some accountability and less of the mindless 'going along to get along' on this. I guess the Civic Council understands what a black eye this gives the whole city.
If he ends up getting dismissed without cause (due to some bullshit we all have seen before on these things), I don't see many folks at JEA 'consulting' with him for the 12 months after.
Quote from: Steve on December 18, 2019, 11:54:52 AM
Civic Council now joining Carlucci in calling for a Grand Jury investigation:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jacksonville-civic-council-calls-for-grand-jury-investigation-into-jea
Also wanting Zahn fired for cause.
Clearly this isn't over.
Good. Also, the mayor's office should not be shielded from any investigation.
Quote from: Papa33 on December 18, 2019, 12:48:07 PM
Quote from: Steve on December 18, 2019, 11:54:52 AM
Civic Council now joining Carlucci in calling for a Grand Jury investigation:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jacksonville-civic-council-calls-for-grand-jury-investigation-into-jea
Also wanting Zahn fired for cause.
Clearly this isn't over.
Good. Also, the mayor's office should not be shielded from any investigation.
Exactly. Zahn started his tenure with JEA as an appointed board member. I think Curry as mayor appointed him. I hope they don't allow the city council and especially the mayor's office to have any involvement in the investigation. I think it will trace back to Curry/Zahn.
Quote from: Snaketoz on December 18, 2019, 02:26:26 PM
Quote from: Papa33 on December 18, 2019, 12:48:07 PM
Quote from: Steve on December 18, 2019, 11:54:52 AM
Civic Council now joining Carlucci in calling for a Grand Jury investigation:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jacksonville-civic-council-calls-for-grand-jury-investigation-into-jea
Also wanting Zahn fired for cause.
Clearly this isn't over.
Good. Also, the mayor's office should not be shielded from any investigation.
Exactly. Zahn started his tenure with JEA as an appointed board member. I think Curry as mayor appointed him. I hope they don't allow the city council and especially the mayor's office to have any involvement in the investigation. I think it will trace back to Curry/Zahn.
If a Grand Jury investigation does happen, it would be led by State Attorney Melissa Nelson. She's separately elected (and works for a state agency) so I'd like to think Curry's ability to influence wouldn't be there. Not to say he won't try of course.
Didn't the JEA board USE to be appointed by both the Governor and the Mayor? Somehow it all went to Curry, but I may be remembering something wrong.
Quote from: vicupstate on December 18, 2019, 03:14:34 PM
Didn't the JEA board USE to be appointed by both the Governor and the Mayor? Somehow it all went to Curry, but I may be remembering something wrong.
Honestly not sure. I know some boards are split (JTA is 1/2 Mayor, 1/2 Governor, plus the District 2 Head)
Quote from: Steve on December 18, 2019, 03:12:17 PM
Quote from: Snaketoz on December 18, 2019, 02:26:26 PM
Quote from: Papa33 on December 18, 2019, 12:48:07 PM
Quote from: Steve on December 18, 2019, 11:54:52 AM
Civic Council now joining Carlucci in calling for a Grand Jury investigation:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jacksonville-civic-council-calls-for-grand-jury-investigation-into-jea
Also wanting Zahn fired for cause.
Clearly this isn't over.
Good. Also, the mayor's office should not be shielded from any investigation.
Exactly. Zahn started his tenure with JEA as an appointed board member. I think Curry as mayor appointed him. I hope they don't allow the city council and especially the mayor's office to have any involvement in the investigation. I think it will trace back to Curry/Zahn.
If a Grand Jury investigation does happen, it would be led by State Attorney Melissa Nelson. She's separately elected (and works for a state agency) so I'd like to think Curry's ability to influence wouldn't be there. Not to say he won't try of course.
I wonder. I like Melissa Nelson, think she is a upgrade from her predecessor, but I wouldn't be surprised if she could pull a Mitch McConnell and say, "no matter the evidence, my mind is made up."
Quote from: Snaketoz on December 18, 2019, 05:00:59 PM
Quote from: Steve on December 18, 2019, 03:12:17 PM
Quote from: Snaketoz on December 18, 2019, 02:26:26 PM
Quote from: Papa33 on December 18, 2019, 12:48:07 PM
Quote from: Steve on December 18, 2019, 11:54:52 AM
Civic Council now joining Carlucci in calling for a Grand Jury investigation:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jacksonville-civic-council-calls-for-grand-jury-investigation-into-jea
Also wanting Zahn fired for cause.
Clearly this isn't over.
Good. Also, the mayor's office should not be shielded from any investigation.
Exactly. Zahn started his tenure with JEA as an appointed board member. I think Curry as mayor appointed him. I hope they don't allow the city council and especially the mayor's office to have any involvement in the investigation. I think it will trace back to Curry/Zahn.
If a Grand Jury investigation does happen, it would be led by State Attorney Melissa Nelson. She's separately elected (and works for a state agency) so I'd like to think Curry's ability to influence wouldn't be there. Not to say he won't try of course.
I wonder. I like Melissa Nelson, think she is a upgrade from her predecessor, but I wouldn't be surprised if she could pull a Mitch McConnell and say, "no matter the evidence, my mind is made up."
I, too, respect Melissa. But she has ties to the mayor and his cronies that go back to her campaign for office. As such, it might be better optics and more ethical for her to recuse herself and let a State Attorney from another jurisdiction look into goings-on at City Hall. Would be really interesting to see the shock and awe of an outsider looking at our City's government over the last 4 to 5 years 8)
If she can't be impartial then I agree. But, you've seen a lot of people that were supposedly in Curry's pocket that have stood up to him. Randy DeFoor isn't letting JEA's presentation to the bond agencies go. Rory Diamond is another one.
Now, to that point - there's a big difference going after one of Curry's buddies versus Curry himself.
To those that didn't want JEA sold, be thankful your public officials are so incompetent. I'm not sure opponents of the sale could have drawn up a better way to kill the deal.
Selling JEA may actually be a good play for Jax, but there's no way it will have a chance after this debacle.
Quote from: CityLife on December 19, 2019, 09:22:05 AM
To those that didn't want JEA sold, be thankful your public officials are so incompetent. I'm not sure opponents of the sale could have drawn up a better way to kill the deal.
Selling JEA may actually be a good play for Jax, but there's no way it will have a chance after this debacle.
That may be true. Perhaps some day we will go about it the correct way and find out.
Yeah, in a correct and transparent process, there would be a good reason proven for selling it and a plan to do something with the profits generated from a sale. Under the current scenario, we'd simply be selling to line the pockets of a few, screwing the community in the long run.
Quote from: CityLife on December 19, 2019, 09:22:05 AM
To those that didn't want JEA sold, be thankful your public officials are so incompetent. I'm not sure opponents of the sale could have drawn up a better way to kill the deal.
Selling JEA may actually be a good play for Jax, but there's no way it will have a chance after this debacle.
That's the crazy thing! When this first was announced, I was generally against it but wanted to hear the argument for doing it, as I felt like I could be convinced. Now? There's no way I'd be for it, at least not while any of these folks are in leadership.
With this currently going up in smoke, does anyone expect this to negatively impact the timeline of Lot J construction?
In 2018, they claimed it would be under construction by Spring 2019:
QuoteFunding will be a mix of public and private investment. No specifics have been announced, but Jaguars President Mark Lamping said he hoped to see an economic development deal in place and construction underway by Spring 2019 on the Lot J phase, which he said represents a "sizeable portion" of the development's overall price tag.
Full article: https://www.jacksonville.com/opinion/20180617/lotj-no-time-like-present-for-25-billion-development
Just last month, the new prediction was first quarter 2020.
QuoteKhan on Saturday reiterated that the project – which is designed to continue revamping and reenergizing downtown Jacksonville around TIAA Bank Field – remains a major objective, and said he expects to break ground on it by the end of the first quarter of 2020.
Full article: https://www.jaguars.com/news/khan-talks-business-lot-j-london-more
However, incentives and tax breaks must be approved by council and the DIA. It doesn't seem like those rounds have started.
Quote from: Steve on December 19, 2019, 09:55:34 AM
Quote from: CityLife on December 19, 2019, 09:22:05 AM
To those that didn't want JEA sold, be thankful your public officials are so incompetent. I'm not sure opponents of the sale could have drawn up a better way to kill the deal.
Selling JEA may actually be a good play for Jax, but there's no way it will have a chance after this debacle.
That's the crazy thing! When this first was announced, I was generally against it but wanted to hear the argument for doing it, as I felt like I could be convinced. Now? There's no way I'd be for it, at least not while any of these folks are in leadership.
I was curious to hear the professional sales pitch as well. Anecdotally, I have been less than impressed with JEA both as a former customer and member of the development community in Jax. I've been an FPL customer for a couple years now and have also dealt with them professionally on the private and public side, and they are in my estimation a much more well run operation. Service wise has been a night and day difference too, though my neighborhood's utilities are underground, so we never have power outages.
There's obviously a fear of a private utility becoming a monopoly and raising rates and having greater power to limit alternative power sources; but there is also the issue of professionalism. Do you want your utility company's staff and board being filled with nationwide leaders in their industry, or political appointees and cronies?
As far as prices go, FPL's rates are lower than JEA's and that is even including franchise fees. The gap would likely be even greater when adjusted for cost of living differences.
See rate comparisons here:
https://assets.noviams.com/novi-file-uploads/fmea/Rates/2019/2019_october_rates.pdf
Jacksonville and it's residents, unfortunately, will not even get an opportunity to make a fair evaluation of the worthiness of selling. Sad times.
Quote from: Steve on December 19, 2019, 09:55:34 AM
Quote from: CityLife on December 19, 2019, 09:22:05 AM
To those that didn't want JEA sold, be thankful your public officials are so incompetent. I'm not sure opponents of the sale could have drawn up a better way to kill the deal.
Selling JEA may actually be a good play for Jax, but there's no way it will have a chance after this debacle.
That's the crazy thing! When this first was announced, I was generally against it but wanted to hear the argument for doing it, as I felt like I could be convinced. Now? There's no way I'd be for it, at least not while any of these folks are in leadership.
That anyone could trust anything coming from this administration going forward is just beyond me. When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
QuoteAs far as prices go, FPL's rates are lower than JEA's and that is even including franchise fees. The gap would likely be even greater when adjusted for cost of living differences.
It was not that long ago that JEA had the lowest rates in FL and among the lowest in the broader region.
The bottom line difference to JAX area taxpayers/ratepayers is probably pretty significant in favor of public ownership as the annual contribution is far greater than privately paid property taxes would be. I think there is significant subsidy by electric of water/sewer infrastructure as well.
Quote from: vicupstate on December 19, 2019, 12:20:46 PM
QuoteAs far as prices go, FPL's rates are lower than JEA's and that is even including franchise fees. The gap would likely be even greater when adjusted for cost of living differences.
It was not that long ago that JEA had the lowest rates in FL and among the lowest in the broader region.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm by no means strong in this area, but didn't JEA make catastrophically bad investments in coal years ago? I remember being at a lunch at JEA a few years back where they said due to new environmental regulations, coal plants they built are being decommissioned much more quickly than initially projected from their initial bond issuance. I would imagine that loss is now being passed on to customers.
Residents of Jacksonville will be more vulnerable in the future to mistakes like this than they would be from a firm with a more diversified portfolio of energy sources, not to mention economies of scale.
Quote from: vicupstate on December 19, 2019, 12:20:46 PM
It was not that long ago that JEA had the lowest rates in FL and among the lowest in the broader region.
And while doing that, JEA deferred infrastructure investments, made some poor investment choices in power plants, and really didn't do a good job keeping their house in order. JEA's rates were, in my eyes, artificially low.
I'm not saying they should let Curry sell the thing. But, JEA has been managed in a sub par manner prior to Aaron Zahn.
JEA Vice President and Legal Officer Lynne Rhode resigns
QuoteJEA Vice President and Legal Officer Lynne Rhode is out at the city-owned utility.
Rhode submitted her letter of resignation to the City Office of General Counsel effective Dec. 19, according to City Assistant Director of Public Affairs James Croft. City Deputy of Government Operations Lawsikia Hodges will fill Rhode's position on an interim basis.
She is the second executive out of a position at JEA this week.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jea-vice-president-and-legal-officer-lynne-rhode-resigns
Quote from: thelakelander on December 20, 2019, 01:36:19 PM
JEA Vice President and Legal Officer Lynne Rhode resigns
Not just resigned but skewered the Office of General Counsel and is threatening to sue! A new wound opened. Curry administration starting to fall apart at the seems? Controversy is showing up at every turn.
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191220/jea-top-lawyer-involved-in-bonus-plan-scandal-resigns-says-city-attorneys-were-rsquofully-informed-and-engagedrsquo-with-utility-dealings (https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191220/jea-top-lawyer-involved-in-bonus-plan-scandal-resigns-says-city-attorneys-were-rsquofully-informed-and-engagedrsquo-with-utility-dealings)
And, now, there is this about Zahn and Curry! From a contractor, no less, traditionally a Curry constituency.
QuoteSemanik is a major investor in BCR Environmental Inc., a company that treats bio-waste, and for eight years employed Zahn as its CEO. Semanik described Zahn's tenure at BCR as a "trainwreck" and said the company terminated him in 2017. These are details about Zahn's background that have never been publicly discussed...
...Semanik isn't surprised by the turmoil that unfolded under Zahn.
"He was terminated at BCR because he wrecked the company," Semanik said in an interview Wednesday. "You can't trust him. He's truly dangerous to anyone who employs him, as he was for BCR."
...Semanik said he spoke to JEA board members about Zahn's struggles at BCR, although he wouldn't say who he spoke with. He said he believed Curry orchestrated the move to put Zahn in control of JEA.
"I think he's (Zahn) an embarrassment to our city, and anyone who assisted Lenny Curry in his placement is an embarrassment as well," Semanik said.
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191220/ousted-jea-ceo-aaron-zahn-was-rsquoterminatedrsquo-by-former-employer-in-2017-according-to-investor (https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191220/ousted-jea-ceo-aaron-zahn-was-rsquoterminatedrsquo-by-former-employer-in-2017-according-to-investor)
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191220/nate-monroe-feud-shows-outside-investigators-not-city-lawyers-need-to-probe-jea-controversies (https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191220/nate-monroe-feud-shows-outside-investigators-not-city-lawyers-need-to-probe-jea-controversies)
Quote from: CityLife on December 19, 2019, 12:36:43 PM
Quote from: vicupstate on December 19, 2019, 12:20:46 PM
QuoteAs far as prices go, FPL's rates are lower than JEA's and that is even including franchise fees. The gap would likely be even greater when adjusted for cost of living differences.
It was not that long ago that JEA had the lowest rates in FL and among the lowest in the broader region.
Residents of Jacksonville will be more vulnerable in the future to mistakes like this than they would be from a firm with a more diversified portfolio of energy sources, not to mention economies of scale.
Speaking of this, does anyone know if JEA will be lowering rates soon? FPL is reducing rates (slightly) due to investments in natural gas and solar.
QuoteFlorida Power & Light Co. says residential customers will see monthly electric bills fall by an average of $3.86 starting in January.
FPL, the state's largest utility, said Thursday that the price of 1,000 kilowatt hours of electricity will fall to $96.04 in 2020, down from $99.90 this year.
FPL and other utilities have benefited from plummeting price of natural gas, a key energy source for power plants. The utility also says it's reaping rewards from its investments in solar.
"Our long-term investments in state-of-the-art clean energy centers and in zero-emissions solar energy are helping to lower fuel costs and customer bills," FPL President and Chief Executive Eric Silagy said in a statement. "We are focused on continuing to find innovative ways to save our customers money while providing industry-leading reliability."
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/business/20191219/fpl-to-reduce-power-bills-in-2020-as-natural-gas-prices-plummet
Mayor Lenny Curry tells JEA to stop sales talks
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191223/mayor-lenny-curry-tells-jea-to-stop-sales-talks
^ Lenny Curry - "the public has lost faith in the process."
I'm sorry sir but you may be missing a large part of this.
Quote from: tufsu1 on December 23, 2019, 04:13:44 PM
^ Lenny Curry - "the public has lost faith in the process."
I'm sorry sir but you may be missing a large part of this.
Agreed. Quote should be "the public has lost faith in the Mayor and everything he touches..."
Like the Jags he so slovenly drools over, City Hall needs a complete make over at the top of the organization. The parallels can't be ignored. Dictatorial style is out of vogue.
When "quoting" FPLs lower rates, what's conveniently left out is the hurricane surcharges that they pass directly to their ratepayers. Something that JEA does not do. Significant if you are looking at overall cost. FPL is never going to advertise that tidbit.
Now where do we get the Lot J money from?
Quote from: Kerry on December 24, 2019, 12:17:25 PM
Now where do we get the Lot J money from?
Our city budget, totaling over 1 billion dollars annually.
Can't afford Lot J on the budget unless you're willing to cut essential services.
Now that the NFL season is almost over, isn't construction suppose to start on Lot J soon?
Quote from: vicupstate on December 24, 2019, 01:40:22 PM
Now that the NFL season is almost over, isn't construction suppose to start on Lot J soon?
I thought it was subject to an environmental study that should be through by now. Anyone hear anything? If no news, maybe results were not favorable.
Finding $233 million in a city wide $1 billion budget is going to be a tough promise to keep. After JEA, people are going to be a lot more cynical and suspicious of the Mayor and anything he pushes for and the willingness to push back should be greater. This may be another project that needs to be pulled back on.
Just Jax's luck if we end up without Lot J and hole where the Landing used to be for $22 million spent.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 24, 2019, 04:52:55 PM
Just Jax's luck if we end up without Lot J and hole where the Landing used to be for $22 million spent.
It can be called a lot of things in addition to luck. S.O.P. in the Curry era.
Action News: More than 50 calls between Curry & Zahn over last 14 months are detailed out. Wonder how many face to face meetings they also had? Texts? Indirect communications through Brian Hughes, et. al.?
https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/duval-county/jacksonville-mayor-ousted-jea-ceo-have-had-more-than-50-phone-calls/ZXUEJB43DBEMBMHDASXFUDMB4Y/ (https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/duval-county/jacksonville-mayor-ousted-jea-ceo-have-had-more-than-50-phone-calls/ZXUEJB43DBEMBMHDASXFUDMB4Y/)
QuoteJACKSONVILLE, Fla. — An Action News Jax investigation reveals Jacksonville Mayor Lenny Curry and ousted JEA CEO Aaron Zahn exchanged more than 50 cell phone calls in a 14 month period during the now halted process to sell the public utility.
The calls came as the Mayor publicly praised the JEA board for exploring privatization, but he never, at least publicly, took an official position on an actual sale...
This is certainly interesting, but I'd love a little more context. How often did Curry and McElroy speak? Alvin Brown and McElroy? Curry and VanLoh (head of the airport Authority)? Going all the way back to Delaney's admin even-how often did Delaney chat with the head of JEA then (aside from the weeks on either side of a hurricane)?
I mean clearly this seems high, but I have no idea how often the Mayor talks with the head of these agencies?
Quote from: Steve on December 25, 2019, 01:29:41 PM
This is certainly interesting, but I'd love a little more context. How often did Curry and McElroy speak? Alvin Brown and McElroy? Curry and VanLoh (head of the airport Authority)? Going all the way back to Delaney's admin even-how often did Delaney chat with the head of JEA then (aside from the weeks on either side of a hurricane)?
I mean clearly this seems high, but I have no idea how often the Mayor talks with the head of these agencies?
If you look at the alignment on the calls with JEA actions, as they lay out on the link, you may find it more interesting regarding the timing of the calls, not just how many.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on December 25, 2019, 05:50:36 PM
Quote from: Steve on December 25, 2019, 01:29:41 PM
This is certainly interesting, but I'd love a little more context. How often did Curry and McElroy speak? Alvin Brown and McElroy? Curry and VanLoh (head of the airport Authority)? Going all the way back to Delaney's admin even-how often did Delaney chat with the head of JEA then (aside from the weeks on either side of a hurricane)?
I mean clearly this seems high, but I have no idea how often the Mayor talks with the head of these agencies?
If you look at the alignment on the calls with JEA actions, as they lay out on the link, you may find it more interesting regarding the timing of the calls, not just how many.
Circumstantial at best.
I want Curry and Zahn nailed to the wall because common sense says this wasn't on the up and up, but this doesn't do it.
List of RFPs that Jacksonville has walked away from this year, effectively wasting the time, money, and resources of all bidders involved:
1) Convention Center
2) Bike share
3) JEA Sale
Who's gonna want to do business with Jax if we keep burning national companies left and right like this?
Quote from: Steve on December 26, 2019, 10:47:14 PM
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on December 25, 2019, 05:50:36 PM
Quote from: Steve on December 25, 2019, 01:29:41 PM
This is certainly interesting, but I'd love a little more context. How often did Curry and McElroy speak? Alvin Brown and McElroy? Curry and VanLoh (head of the airport Authority)? Going all the way back to Delaney's admin even-how often did Delaney chat with the head of JEA then (aside from the weeks on either side of a hurricane)?
I mean clearly this seems high, but I have no idea how often the Mayor talks with the head of these agencies?
If you look at the alignment on the calls with JEA actions, as they lay out on the link, you may find it more interesting regarding the timing of the calls, not just how many.
Circumstantial at best.
I want Curry and Zahn nailed to the wall because common sense says this wasn't on the up and up, but this doesn't do it.
If one is an investigator, starting with circumstantial evidence like this is a good jumping off point. They should analyze the content/purpose/timing/parties/notes/recollections of every conversation, similar to what Congress has done with the Ukraine communications. Breaking down each one may lead to more details not yet revealed.
Looks like Curry was in up to his neck on JEA sale process. More dominoes falling. Check out today's details:
(1) Mayor's team ran negotiations. Issues include secret meetings, possibly illegally held, and rushing the process to reduce number of bidders with possible consequences of lowering offer prices by billions and favoring FPL:https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191227/mayoral-official-leading-jea-sales-talks-pushed-lsquoaggressiversquo-timeline-according-to-ethics-directorrsquos-notes (https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191227/mayoral-official-leading-jea-sales-talks-pushed-lsquoaggressiversquo-timeline-according-to-ethics-directorrsquos-notes)
(2) Nate Monroe:
Quote...Consider:
‒ Miller's notes indicate how deeply involved Curry's administration was in the sale process, despite his repeated attempts to distance himself from it. He repeatedly insisted the JEA board and executives were responsible for the sale, despite the fact that top appointed city officials played lead roles in the negotiations...
...In sum, Miller's notes paint an unflattering portrait of the aborted sale process: Rushed, slapdash, secret, skirting the line of the law, run by outside consultants and mayoral appointees with little or no experience in managing large transactions of this kind...
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191227/nate-monroe-accounts-of-secret-negotiation-sessions-offer-messy-unflattering-portrait-of-jea-sale (https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191227/nate-monroe-accounts-of-secret-negotiation-sessions-offer-messy-unflattering-portrait-of-jea-sale)
(3) JEA CFO is gone, joining CEO Zahn and Chief Lawyer:https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191227/jea-confirms-cfo-ryan-wannemacher-is-gone-begins-releasing-sales-related-documents (https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20191227/jea-confirms-cfo-ryan-wannemacher-is-gone-begins-releasing-sales-related-documents)
Quote from: Steve on December 26, 2019, 10:47:14 PM
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on December 25, 2019, 05:50:36 PM
Quote from: Steve on December 25, 2019, 01:29:41 PM
This is certainly interesting, but I'd love a little more context. How often did Curry and McElroy speak? Alvin Brown and McElroy? Curry and VanLoh (head of the airport Authority)? Going all the way back to Delaney's admin even-how often did Delaney chat with the head of JEA then (aside from the weeks on either side of a hurricane)?
I mean clearly this seems high, but I have no idea how often the Mayor talks with the head of these agencies?
If you look at the alignment on the calls with JEA actions, as they lay out on the link, you may find it more interesting regarding the timing of the calls, not just how many.
Circumstantial at best.
I want Curry and Zahn nailed to the wall because common sense says this wasn't on the up and up, but this doesn't do it.
Steve, another log on the fire pointing to Curry's direct involvement in the JEA shenanigans:
Nate Monroe: Former JEA vice president says CEO Zahn worked with mayor's top staffer on "political issues":QuoteIn a series of text messages sent near the beginning of 2019, a JEA vice president in charge of public affairs opined to then-CEO Aaron Zahn on why they had reached a rocky period in their relationship: Zahn began leaning more heavily on political advice from Mayor Lenny Curry's top staffer and his political consultant, and ignoring his own official...
..."Let's be honest, you stated that you are working the political issues with Brian and Tim," Hightower texted. He was referring to Brian Hughes, the mayor's chief administrative officer, and Tim Baker, the head of Curry's political operation, he said Wednesday....
...The texts further frustrate repeated efforts by the mayor to distance himself from the burning controversy at JEA and the push to privatize the city-owned utility, and the correspondence suggests Curry and his advisers played a more active role helping Zahn as he put together a plan to solicit bids from private companies to acquire all or part of JEA...
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20200108/nate-monroe-former-jea-vice-president-says-ceo-zahn-worked-with-mayorrsquos-top-staffer-on-ldquopolitical-issuesrdquo (https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20200108/nate-monroe-former-jea-vice-president-says-ceo-zahn-worked-with-mayorrsquos-top-staffer-on-ldquopolitical-issuesrdquo)
And, here's the chaser from Chris Hong @ the T-U:
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20200108/jea-paid-25000-to-lobbyist-with-business-ties-to-then-ceo-aaron-zahn-through-jaxchamber
QuoteJaxChamber CEO Daniel Davis confirmed Wednesday that a JEA official instructed one of his staffers to hire Deno Hicks, a local lobbyist who at the time had an undisclosed business partnership with then-CEO Aaron Zahn, to raise money for an innovation conference that JEA and the Chamber organized in 2018.
This has past the "Bananas" level.
I guess the roaches do run for cover when the lights come on. Who would have thought another attempt to sell JEA would lead to such a turn of events.
The Mayor's office will try to gaslight its way out of this, with the help of the GC's office, and in the age of Trump, anything is possible. The GC's office ought to recuse itself on any matters dealing with this as they are equally tainted. And did anyone really believe Zahn and GC would hammer out a "deal" in two weeks?? There is a bunch of ass covering going on on the 4th Floor of the St. James building.
Related, Carlucci (at midnight last night) called for Brian Hughes' (Curry's Chief Admin Officer) head.
Oh boy.
Quote
Jacksonville City Councilman Matt Carlucci makes midnight call for Brian Hughes' resignation
Midnight call for Jax Mayor's right hand man to move on.
By A.G. GancarskionJanuary 9, 2020
Jacksonville media, including this writer, received word from a Jacksonville City Councilman that he wants the Mayor's Chief Administrative Officer to resign.
The email came through just after Midnight Thursday.
Councilman Matt Carlucci said it was "time for ... Brian Hughes, who has become a troublesome liability to the Mayor's Office to resign."
"His presence in City Hall, in my opinion, based on my experience, has been an impediment to our city moving forward and this has lead to the worst governmental environment and chemistry that I have ever witnessed or experienced in my public service career," Carlucci added.
...
https://floridapolitics.com/archives/315291-carlucci-wants-hughes-resign?fbclid=IwAR3friu5DwF_aiQu6ET_MWulp4dw75oH67VKYSP3yaRHZ9hebBzNyr2ktJw
Quote from: Steve on January 09, 2020, 12:31:37 PM
Related, Carlucci (at midnight last night) called for Brian Hughes' (Curry's Chief Admin Officer) head.
Oh boy.
Why stop there? How about his boss?
Unbelievable! Florida Power & Light, during the "bidding process" for JEA, rents a Jags suite adjacent to, and open to, the City Hall suite and then plied Brian Hughes, Tim Baker and others with eats and drinks, all during the "cone of silence" period. And, they all deny anything untoward occurred during their interactions. How would you feel if you were one of the other bidders for JEA?
Add this to all the other info coming out and tell me the Mayor wasn't rigging this process from beginning to end.
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20200109/despite-rsquocone-of-silencersquo-over-jea-sale-top-mayoral-official-spoke-to-florida-power-and-light-ceo-during-private-party-at-jaguars-game (https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20200109/despite-rsquocone-of-silencersquo-over-jea-sale-top-mayoral-official-spoke-to-florida-power-and-light-ceo-during-private-party-at-jaguars-game)
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20200113/feds-to-investigate-jea-privatization
Wow. No way Melissa Nelson turns it over to the feds with no evidence.
$10 says someone is going to jail.
Quote from: Steve on January 13, 2020, 08:16:01 PM
Wow. No way Melissa Nelson turns it over to the feds with no evidence.
$10 says someone is going to jail.
Waiting for all the emails to come out.
I want someone to ask the mayor (publicly) if he shoulders any blame for the aftereffects of the failed sale?
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/diamond-jea-privatization-effort-based-on-the-biggest-lie-ever-told-in-our-citys-history
This article was pretty crazy. It also was pushed off the front page of the Daily Record much more quickly than I expected....
Quote from: Papa33 on February 25, 2020, 05:59:23 PM
I want someone to ask the mayor (publicly) if he shoulders any blame for the aftereffects of the failed sale?
The JEA situation at best exposed Curry to be borderline incompetent. At worst, it looks like he and his cronies were trying to enrich themselves on the public dime.
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jea-sues-former-ceo-aaron-zahn
JEA has sure changed their tune in 6 months!
https://www.news4jax.com/i-team/2020/06/09/jea-places-most-of-its-senior-leadership-on-leave/
Must reading: "Money and Power," an extensive article linked below that chronicles and summarizes from beginning to end the efforts to sell JEA. A great archival piece put together by 4 of the T-U's best reporters and columnists. Although lengthy, it is a breezy read and doesn't require much time to take it all in.
Curry and Zahn both came out of this smelling pretty awful as we already know. Can't wait to see the drama generated as they go at each other in a public forum following all the investigations and litigation underway and as others work to salvage their own reputations. Knives out!
Given today's events, reading how Curry handled the RNC Convention is deja vu of his JEA sale approach: A hell or high water, transparency-lacking, non-collaborative effort that ultimately crumbles with Curry trying to disassociate himself from the resulting debacle.
https://stories.usatodaynetwork.com/moneyandpower/home/site/jacksonville.com/ (https://stories.usatodaynetwork.com/moneyandpower/home/site/jacksonville.com/)
Well, here is the first public official alleging "criminal" actions took place at JEA, along with City Council requests for testimony from Tim Baker, Sam Mousa, Michael Munz, Alan Howard and Kevin Hyde:
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20200727/council-committee-investigating-jea-sale-votes-to-seek-testimony-from-five-key-figures (https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20200727/council-committee-investigating-jea-sale-votes-to-seek-testimony-from-five-key-figures)
QuoteAlso Monday, councilman Rory Diamond tweeted that JEA's former chief information officer admitted to intentionally putting the wrong password on a tablet used by Melissa Dykes, who was chief operating officer at the time. He says this destroyed all documents.
"In my opinion, this is criminal," Diamond tweeted. "Criminal."
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on July 27, 2020, 01:08:23 PM
Well, here is the first public official alleging "criminal" actions took place at JEA, along with City Council requests for testimony from Tim Baker, Sam Mousa, Michael Munz, Alan Howard and Kevin Hyde:
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20200727/council-committee-investigating-jea-sale-votes-to-seek-testimony-from-five-key-figures (https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20200727/council-committee-investigating-jea-sale-votes-to-seek-testimony-from-five-key-figures)
QuoteAlso Monday, councilman Rory Diamond tweeted that JEA's former chief information officer admitted to intentionally putting the wrong password on a tablet used by Melissa Dykes, who was chief operating officer at the time. He says this destroyed all documents.
"In my opinion, this is criminal," Diamond tweeted. "Criminal."
Except that the CIO didn't admit he did it on purpose. No idea where he got that statement from.
Another JEA domino is about to fall:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/court-rules-nexteras-bid-for-jea-is-public-record (https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/court-rules-nexteras-bid-for-jea-is-public-record)
New updates. Foley and Lardner memos begin to break open the secret dealings of JEA. Curry's office is implicated as meddling and JEA as trying to hide its bonus plan from the public. Plenty of juice here for incriminations and follow ups by the Fed's and City Council. Looking forward to more of the circular firing squad to come!
QuoteA month later, after the attempted sale of JEA fell apart, another Foley & Lardner attorney privately speculated to Hyde that Mayor Lenny Curry "had to have known" about the bonuses. That attorney also criticized Sam Mousa and Tim Baker, two Curry confidantes who both landed consulting gigs with NextEra Energy, the parent company of Florida Power and Light that made the highest offer to buy JEA.
QuoteIn fact, emails obtained by the Florida Times-Union reveal Hyde and his colleagues took steps last August at the behest of JEA executive Herschel Vinyard that would make it harder to trace JEA's work creating the bonus plan. Vinyard has since been fired.
"Herschel suggested that we not have any more emails about the PUPs since it is a potential public record," wrote Hyde in an Aug. 23 email to a colleague. The email was sent hours after Foley & Lardner attorneys informed JEA executives the bonus plan could result in a $5 billion payout.
Quote"We are trying to avoid the word bonus, but the concept is the same," wrote Hyde in a July 3 email.
Quote"They will try and take cover and claim consultants came up with it (bonus plan) but they had to know about the crazy payouts upon sale," he wrote. "While on crazy fees, I hope they subpoena Sam Mousa's arrangement with NextEra...The Tim Baker thing is outrageous. Taken as a whole, the Mayor only cared about getting JEA sold and didn't care that his self-appointed team at JEA and his political consultants were all going to make outlandish sums at the expense of the citizens."
Cook ended the email with the following conclusion: "Completely soiled this opportunity for a long time due to greed and arrogance."
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2020/08/28/jea-bonus-plan-1-billion-potential/5648061002/ (https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2020/08/28/jea-bonus-plan-1-billion-potential/5648061002/)
I'm thinking purely political, but if this blows up hard enough it might be high time for a Dem outsider to run in '23 on a genuine progressive effort to get things right, with an added "I'm not part of the corrupt system that attempted to defraud us all" angle.
The way I've always seen it, if everyone chooses to abandon government to being a realm of the corrupt, then only the corrupt will ever bother to try. If no one ever believes in better, we'll never get it.
Idealism is good for the soul, Matt. That's why it's in the coffee.
So stir them together.
There is corruption in both major parties, as we have seen. My problem is with the "party system" we have. The parties put up candidates that will look-out for the sponsor's interests, whether qualified or not. (Much like our current mayor.) We are currently Republican dominated. If they are voted out then the Dems will surely take their place. There is too much money spent on these hacks for qualified, independent, successful people to be willing to enter races.
I don't disagree. There is an enormous amount of change that should be made at every level of government to diminish the power of the two-party system in America. The challenge, of course, is convincing the system to diminish its own power. A big part of that comes from a lack of civic engagement. Like I said, if everyone abandons government to being the realm of the corrupt, only the corrupt will ever try.
Quote from: marcuscnelson on September 01, 2020, 07:04:44 PM
I don't disagree. There is an enormous amount of change that should be made at every level of government to diminish the power of the two-party system in America. The challenge, of course, is convincing the system to diminish its own power. A big part of that comes from a lack of civic engagement. Like I said, if everyone abandons government to being the realm of the corrupt, only the corrupt will ever try.
Jacksonville's charter can be amended by petition-driven referendum, something very rare and unique for a city government. No reason that you couldn't mandate non-partisan city elections by that method.
City Council report out today links Curry to JEA sale. No surprise but good to have it confirmed, especially by his buds on the Council. Says Curry had been working on the sale since 2017 and engineered Zahn into his position to make it happen. Main reason it failed is Zahn got greedy with the "incentive" plan he cooked up. Another Curry scheme with adverse consequences to Jacksonville citizens. More of the same with his scheming Lot J. He has zero credibility in my book. I am still trying to figure out what his appeal was to voters who elected him.
Quote
City Council investigative report links Mayor Lenny Curry to failed JEA sale
Christopher Hong
Florida Times-Union
A Jacksonville City Council special committee on Monday published its long-awaited investigative report into the failed 2019 sale of JEA, finding that Mayor Lenny Curry and JEA officials spent years exploring a sale of the city-owned utility with a "purposeful lack of transparency" and CEO Aaron Zahn used "intentional misrepresentations and omissions" to push a sale, which was coupled with Zahn's creation of an "ill-conceived" bonus plan that could have yielded executives millions of dollars.
The report, which is a culmination of a nearly year-long investigation, is the most definitive account linking Curry to the 2019 privatization effort. The report found Curry's administration was involved in exploring a sale as early as 2017 and that Curry "positioned" Zahn at the head of the JEA in 2018 to facilitate a sale, which the report described as a "move that would further burden the opaque sale effort."....
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2021/01/04/city-council-investigative-report-links-mayor-lenny-curry-failed-jea-sale/4124825001/ (https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2021/01/04/city-council-investigative-report-links-mayor-lenny-curry-failed-jea-sale/4124825001/)
^Pretty simple. His backers didn't want four more years of Alvin Brown for various reasons. Some good, some bad, some totally selfish and at the expense of the community. He was pushed to carry out a vision from a segment of the local population that goes way back before his arrival in city hall.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 04, 2021, 01:56:07 PM
^Pretty simple. His backers didn't want four more years of Alvin Brown for various reasons. Some good, some bad, some totally selfish and at the expense of the community. He was pushed to carry out a vision from a segment of the local population that goes way back before his arrival in city hall.
Alvin Brown tried to play nice with too many people and ended up not standing for anything concrete for the most part. People want a leader of action (even if not always good) it seems and Brown didn't measure up well to that standard. But, be wary of fast talking politicians like Curry. Sometimes no action is better than the wrong action.
Anna Brosche may or may not have been a great mayor. But, no way she could have been worse than Curry. While she ran a poor campaign (lacking in good organization and funding), she also warned us what kind of mayor Curry was behind the scenes and how much worse he would be if he was reelected. Sadly, her characterizations seem to be pretty close to the mark. Shame on voters for not paying closer attention or even participating in the election. Now they will pay.
So, big question with this report.
Is this bad enough for Curry that someone (or a group of someones) could seriously put recall on the table? Do his actions fit any of these:
Quotemalfeasance, misfeasance, neglect of duty, drunkenness, incompetence, permanent inability to perform official duties, and conviction of a felony involving moral turpitude.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on January 04, 2021, 02:09:26 PM
Alvin Brown tried to play nice with too many people and ended up not standing for anything concrete for the most part. People want a leader of action (even if not always good) it seems and Brown didn't measure up well to that standard. But, be wary of fast talking politicians like Curry. Sometimes no action is better than the wrong action.
Well Curry is a leader of action. His administration set DT Jax back 20 years just from being bullheaded and stubborn.
Brown could have certainly done more during his term. With that said, did the Southbank Riverwalk reconstruction, Cowford Chophouse, 220 Riverside finally kicking off Brooklyn's redevelopment and what appeared to be the revamp of the Jax Landing, all happen under his administration? Every time I'm in my office looking at the hole that is the Landing site, I think back and wonder what would that site look like today if we had just stayed the course in 2014.
While it'd be nice to see a recall position for incompetence as a result of disastrous downtown decision-making, I really do wonder if this JEA report is bad enough to motivate a recall effort. I've seen a handful of people say that maybe he should resign, and while that's far from representative of the numbers needed for such an effort to be successful, I don't think it's unreasonable to say that if it's bad enough that a lot of people feel resignation is called for, a recall attempt might be called for as well.
Quote from: marcuscnelson on January 04, 2021, 03:24:38 PM
While it'd be nice to see a recall position for incompetence as a result of disastrous downtown decision-making, I really do wonder if this JEA report is bad enough to motivate a recall effort. I've seen a handful of people say that maybe he should resign, and while that's far from representative of the numbers needed for such an effort to be successful, I don't think it's unreasonable to say that if it's bad enough that a lot of people feel resignation is called for, a recall attempt might be called for as well.
I don't seem him resigning from the council report (regardless of how accurate it is, and I believe it's probably very accurate).
The Feds investigation on the other hand.
Curry needs to step down.
He's become an embarrassment to the city, and I sure get the impression his own mental health has taken a nosedive as well.
This month has seen him shout down City Council on Twitter, bow out of a Christmas Tree lighting, physically threaten a citizen and a City Council member, expose an alleged affair on Twitter, and now get implicated in one of the largest scandals in city history with the failed JEA sale.
Only going to get worse when the Feds conclude their investigation.
Call it a day.
Get off social media, take care of yourself mentally, and figure out what's next for you and your family.
It's what's best for all parties involved.
Nate Monroe suggested (or explicitly stated) in a recent column that Curry has checked out of being mayor and running the day to day of the city. For people in the know, how true is that? Also, I looked at the city ordinance. If the mayor is unable or unwilling to serve, then city council president becomes mayor.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on January 04, 2021, 03:53:19 PM
Curry needs to step down.
He's become an embarrassment to the city, and I sure get the impression his own mental health has taken a nosedive as well.
This month has seen him shout down City Council on Twitter, bow out of a Christmas Tree lighting, physically threaten a citizen and a City Council member, expose an alleged affair on Twitter, and now get implicated in one of the largest scandals in city history with the failed JEA sale.
Only going to get worse when the Feds conclude their investigation.
Call it a day.
Get off social media, take care of yourself mentally, and figure out what's next for you and your family.
It's what's best for all parties involved.
To add, I am seeing Twitter exchanges indicating that maybe Curry likes his drinks very much (I know I saw him one time at a bar with his wife at about 9:30 at night. Not that it means anything but...). I wonder if he has issues outside of the office that may be (further) impairing his governing abilities. Monroe has also called him out for being an absent mayor (where is Waldo?) and Dennis alleges he has "interests" in Clay County 8). I don't know, but that's a pile of rumors going around.
As noted, based on his known (and maybe unknown) behavior, it could be time for him to step out of the job and get control of his personal life.
Quote from: Papa33 on January 04, 2021, 04:00:12 PM
Nate Monroe suggested (or explicitly stated) in a recent column that Curry has checked out of being mayor and running the day to day of the city. For people in the know, how true is that?
That is not a recent trend.
I assume the city council President would assume the Mayor's office if Curry vacated for any reason. If so, Curry is not going to step aside and let a Democrat become Mayor. I assume Hazouri's term is nearly up though??
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on January 04, 2021, 02:09:26 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on January 04, 2021, 01:56:07 PM
^Pretty simple. His backers didn't want four more years of Alvin Brown for various reasons. Some good, some bad, some totally selfish and at the expense of the community. He was pushed to carry out a vision from a segment of the local population that goes way back before his arrival in city hall.
Alvin Brown tried to play nice with too many people and ended up not standing for anything concrete for the most part. People want a leader of action (even if not always good) it seems and Brown didn't measure up well to that standard. But, be wary of fast talking politicians like Curry. Sometimes no action is better than the wrong action.
Anna Brosche may or may not have been a great mayor. But, no way she could have been worse than Curry. While she ran a poor campaign (lacking in good organization and funding), she also warned us what kind of mayor Curry was behind the scenes and how much worse he would be if he was reelected. Sadly, her characterizations seem to be pretty close to the mark. Shame on voters for not paying closer attention or even participating in the election. Now they will pay.
Run a poor campaign and this is what you get... ask Hillary...
I think when it comes to Brosche, there's a lot to be said for the fact that her campaign didn't really start in earnest until January or so, and most people had totally checked out once the midterms were over the previous November. I'm also still mind-blown that the Democrats apparently couldn't find anyone in a city of a million people to challenge this guy.
From a purely partisan standpoint, I don't think it's unreasonable to think that if literally any Democrat at all had made it onto the ballot and informed people of that, it could have at least kept Curry below 50% and forced a runoff between him and Brosche, giving her more time to make a better case against him. Better organization two and a half years ago with the right candidate could have even led to a win, especially if they had been running during Gillum's campaign and taken advantage of that effort in Duval.
Quote from: vicupstate on January 04, 2021, 05:41:38 PM
I assume the city council President would assume the Mayor's office if Curry vacated for any reason. If so, Curry is not going to step aside and let a Democrat become Mayor. I assume Hazouri's term is nearly up though??
Hazouri's term as Council President ends June 30. If standard practice follows, the current Council Vice President, Sam Newby, will become Prez on July 1.
Quote from: fieldafm on January 04, 2021, 05:35:31 PM
Quote from: Papa33 on January 04, 2021, 04:00:12 PM
Nate Monroe suggested (or explicitly stated) in a recent column that Curry has checked out of being mayor and running the day to day of the city. For people in the know, how true is that?
That is not a recent trend.
^This.
The rules for recalling the Mayor of Jacksonville:
https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/rules-for-recalling-the-mayor-of-jacksonville/
Links to updated and expanded Times Union coverage of the City Council's JEA report and new Nate Monroe column on same subject:
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2021/01/04/city-council-investigative-report-links-mayor-lenny-curry-failed-jea-sale/4124825001/ (https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2021/01/04/city-council-investigative-report-links-mayor-lenny-curry-failed-jea-sale/4124825001/)
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/columns/nate-monroe/2021/01/04/city-council-report-says-greed-bad-faith-marred-jea-sale-effort/4123321001/
(https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/columns/nate-monroe/2021/01/04/city-council-report-says-greed-bad-faith-marred-jea-sale-effort/4123321001/)
Monroe column excerpts:
QuoteCOMMENTARY | A nearly yearlong investigation by lawyers representing a special Jacksonville City Council investigative committee found that almost every step taken by Mayor Lenny Curry's administration and former city utility executives to privatize JEA — dating as far back as 2017 — was tinged with bad-faith, greed, secrecy or, at the least, an appearance of impropriety, according to the committee's 132-page final report released Monday.
On the contentious question of how involved the mayor was throughout the sale effort — something Curry has repeatedly denied — City Council attorneys flatly concluded he became involved as early as 2017, and that he and his administration took steps to conceal that fact from the public.
"Knowing that public sentiment disfavored transferring JEA to private ownership, the city's effort to market JEA was conducted with a purposeful lack of transparency," the report said....
...The City Council attorneys also found evidence of coordination between Curry's "affiliates," like his political consultant, and energy giant NextEra, a bidder to purchase JEA. The lawyers also wrote that behind closed doors city officials had decided on a negotiation strategy that benefitted the company.
The report, authored by attorneys with Jacksonville law firm Smith Hulsey & Busey, made no definitive conclusions about whether anyone involved at the city or JEA broke laws, but the lawyers wrote that JEA executives made "material" and "intentional" omissions and misleading statements to the board of directors — terms that, in legal settings, are sometimes elements of civil and criminal fraud cases...
... The committee report concluded there was "evidence of coordination among affiliates of the Curry administration" and NextEra, one of the bidders vying to purchase JEA, though it stopped short of characterizing that evidence as definitive proof of an attempt to rig the process in the company's favor.
Most of that evidence centered around the relationships between consultants Tim Baker and Sam Mousa with Curry and NextEra, a nexus the Times-Union has reported in the past.
• The report says city negotiators who interacted with the bidders opted for an accelerated timeframe on the competitive solicitation process that they were advised would force out other bidders.
The negotiators also relied too heavily on the offering price while failing to adequately incorporate other factors — like the fact that NextEra's bid "assume(d) up to an immediate 50% workforce reduction" in JEA electric employees — when ranking the bids.
They refused to disclose the amount of the purchase price in the highest bid — which came from NextEra, at roughly $11 billion — to the rest of the potential buyers, which had the effect of "decreased competitiveness of the ITN to the detriment of JEA and the city, but to the benefit of NextEra."...
Quote from: vicupstate on January 04, 2021, 05:41:38 PM
I assume the city council President would assume the Mayor's office if Curry vacated for any reason. If so, Curry is not going to step aside and let a Democrat become Mayor. I assume Hazouri's term is nearly up though??
Immediate Mayoral Succession:
City Council President (Tommy Hazouri)
City Council Vice President (Sam Newby)
Chair of the Rules Committee (Brenda Priestly Jackson)
Chair of the Finance Committee (Matt Carlucci)
This will change in July. Now, as I read the article, anyone who becomes acting mayor thorough a recall/resignation can NOT run for the permanent office.
Hazouri is 76, and had lung surgery last year. Plus, he's already been Mayor, and we've generally chosen people at least under 50 for some time now. Why would he run again at this point?
Quote from: marcuscnelson on January 05, 2021, 05:55:14 PM
Hazouri is 76, and had lung surgery last year. Plus, he's already been Mayor, and we've generally chosen people at least under 50 for some time now. Why would he run again at this point?
70 is the new 50 though.
Quote from: marcuscnelson on January 05, 2021, 05:55:14 PM
Hazouri is 76, and had lung surgery last year. Plus, he's already been Mayor, and we've generally chosen people at least under 50 for some time now. Why would he run again at this point?
I don't think anyone is suggesting Hazouri run again, but pointing out the order of succession should Curry leave office before June 30.
Quote from: Charles Hunter on January 05, 2021, 09:38:45 PM
Quote from: marcuscnelson on January 05, 2021, 05:55:14 PM
Hazouri is 76, and had lung surgery last year. Plus, he's already been Mayor, and we've generally chosen people at least under 50 for some time now. Why would he run again at this point?
I don't think anyone is suggesting Hazouri run again, but pointing out the order of succession should Curry leave office before June 30.
Correct - the article above outlines the (many step) process for a resignation or a recall. If Curry hypothetically resigned tomorrow, Hazouri would become Acting Mayor. The SoE would then schedule a special election. Hazouri would NOT be permitted to run for the permanent seat.
Quote from: Steve on January 06, 2021, 08:54:31 AM
Quote from: Charles Hunter on January 05, 2021, 09:38:45 PM
Quote from: marcuscnelson on January 05, 2021, 05:55:14 PM
Hazouri is 76, and had lung surgery last year. Plus, he's already been Mayor, and we've generally chosen people at least under 50 for some time now. Why would he run again at this point?
I don't think anyone is suggesting Hazouri run again, but pointing out the order of succession should Curry leave office before June 30.
Correct - the article above outlines the (many step) process for a resignation or a recall. If Curry hypothetically resigned tomorrow, Hazouri would become Acting Mayor. The SoE would then schedule a special election. Hazouri would NOT be permitted to run for the permanent seat.
Not quite. According to 6.06 the acting mayor can run for the permanent seat, but they have to step down as acting mayor to do it.
Quote from: Tacachale on January 06, 2021, 09:40:50 AM
Quote from: Steve on January 06, 2021, 08:54:31 AM
Quote from: Charles Hunter on January 05, 2021, 09:38:45 PM
Quote from: marcuscnelson on January 05, 2021, 05:55:14 PM
Hazouri is 76, and had lung surgery last year. Plus, he's already been Mayor, and we've generally chosen people at least under 50 for some time now. Why would he run again at this point?
I don't think anyone is suggesting Hazouri run again, but pointing out the order of succession should Curry leave office before June 30.
Correct - the article above outlines the (many step) process for a resignation or a recall. If Curry hypothetically resigned tomorrow, Hazouri would become Acting Mayor. The SoE would then schedule a special election. Hazouri would NOT be permitted to run for the permanent seat.
Not quite. According to 6.06 the acting mayor can run for the permanent seat, but they have to step down as acting mayor to do it.
Then, technically, they would not be Acting Mayor anymore, preserving the "acting mayor can't run for mayor." :)
Here's the language from Section 6.06 of the City Code
Quote
if any such official who is serving as acting mayor should qualify to run for the office of mayor, then he shall no longer serve as acting mayor and the official next in line of succession shall assume the duties of acting mayor.
Mark Woods column on Curry and the JEA report:
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/columns/mark-woods/2021/01/06/jacksonville-mayor-wasnt-behind-jea-sale-thats-his-story-and-hes-sticking-it/4133872001/ (https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/columns/mark-woods/2021/01/06/jacksonville-mayor-wasnt-behind-jea-sale-thats-his-story-and-hes-sticking-it/4133872001/)