https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/shipping-container-apartment-community-planned-for-cathedral-district (https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/shipping-container-apartment-community-planned-for-cathedral-district)
QuoteAn apartment community of shipping containers is designed for the Cathedral District area of Downtown.
JWB Real Estate Capital submitted plans to the Downtown Development Review Board for the Ashley Street Container Project at 412 E. Ashley St.
The 18 studio units, stacked three floors, will rent for $550 a month.
"We are really doing the project because we would like to bring a groundbreaking concept like this to Downtown Jax, and hoping others will see it and continue to think outside the box to develop Downtown," said Jacksonville-based JWB Real Estate Capital President Alex Sifakis.
He estimates the project at $1.2 million.
Each 320-square-foot unit – 8 by 40 feet – would have a refrigerator, two-burner cooktop, microwave and under-counter washer-dryer.
There is space for a bed, sofa and two-seat counter. Plans indicate a bathroom with a toilet, shower and sink. Storage is designed in cabinets and a walk-in closet.
Three to four windows are on one side and a window or a balcony and sliding glass door will be on the end. Sifakis said the balconies will be created by opening the doors on the end of the container, fixing them in place and adding a floor and railing.
Fisher Koppenhafer is the architect.
"The most interesting thing about it is that it will be totally modular," Sifakis said.
He said more than 30 percent of the site will be green space or common area with pavers. A pergola is planned in the front and there potentially will be a gas fire pit in the back.
Sifakis said that while it isn't shown in the DDRB submission, his group intends for Art Republic to paint a mural on the side of the units facing Liberty Street.
Sifakis said the units and staircases will be able to be removed from the lot and relocated as needed.
Sifakis said the group would develop the project with used containers, which are available from vendors around Jacksonville. "There are plenty since we a port city," he said.
Sifakis said containers cost about $2,500 used and $4,000 new.
There will be no income cap for renters, he said. He doesn't expect more than two people would live in each unit.
Sifakis said the units will be built off-site and lifted into place. On-site construction could take two-three months, he said.
"We have already started building a model unit," he said.
Sifakis said units could be ready in five to eight months, barring delays, and JWB Capital is accepting interest from those interested in renting a unit.
Sifakis also intends to seek a Recapture Enhanced Value grant from the Downtown Investment Authority but did not know when.
"This isn't a project we are doing for the money, returns will be less than 6% on it," he said in an email.
The 0.13-acre vacant property is along East Ashley Street between Washington and Liberty streets. JWB Capital, through Hoose A LLC, bought the property Feb. 15 for $52,500.
JWB acquired the property from Orlando Realty Group LLC, which paid $30,100 in April 2017 for the tax deed on the site.
The city defines the Cathedral District as the area bounded by State, Ocean and Monroe streets and Hogans Creek.
JWB buys, develops, rents, sells and manages properties for its portfolio and for investors. It focuses on infill properties, especially single lots among developed and urban areas.
Sifakis said JWB owns close to 900 infill lots.
He said other cities have built projects using shipping containers, but he hasn't seen any in the U.S. with containers converted into individual 320-square-foot units and used as modular construction.
He said there have been such projects in Europe.
cool idea - and the location is ideal for something experimental like this
Not sure about the location. :-\ Otherwise a good proposal, IMO.
Yeah definitely the most depressing part of downtown. The remaining houses on those couple of blocks tell a sad story of what could have been. Hopefully this kicks off some traction in that area but I doubt it.
There is not any included parking.
https://www.wokv.com/news/local/shipping-container-apartment-complex-proposed-for-downtown-jacksonville/Mx70kTeQK5KETaduKlqaHI/
Quote from: Wombley Womberly on April 24, 2019, 05:12:08 PM
There is not any included parking.
https://www.wokv.com/news/local/shipping-container-apartment-complex-proposed-for-downtown-jacksonville/Mx70kTeQK5KETaduKlqaHI/
Fine with me. Let the market decide.
Quote from: Wombley Womberly on April 24, 2019, 05:12:08 PM
There is not any included parking.
https://www.wokv.com/news/local/shipping-container-apartment-complex-proposed-for-downtown-jacksonville/Mx70kTeQK5KETaduKlqaHI/
The rent is low enough that most of the tenants probably do not have cars.
I would definitely be worried about their safety in extreme weather. I can't imagine a 3-tall, 1-wide stack of shipping containers, as shown in the rendering in the Daily Record article, wouldn't topple in a hurricane, especially if they don't tie them down.
Quote from: Jax-Nole on April 24, 2019, 08:55:56 PM
I would definitely be worried about their safety in extreme weather. I can't imagine a 3-tall, 1-wide stack of shipping containers, as shown in the rendering in the Daily Record article, wouldn't topple in a hurricane, especially if they don't tie them down.
It's still a building, it has to be engineered and permitted just like anything else.
Interesting. I do not believe this is the first time this idea has been proposed for Jacksonville. I am pretty certain you will see another large, similar proposal for the Cathedral District vicinity in the very near future.
But this one is a welcome addition to downtown. No doubt they will be firmly attached to one another and a foundation. Will have to meet hurricane wind load construction requirements. And certainly possible to string more than one together for anyone who wanted more space.
Quote from: Jax-Nole on April 24, 2019, 08:55:56 PM
I would definitely be worried about their safety in extreme weather. I can't imagine a 3-tall, 1-wide stack of shipping containers, as shown in the rendering in the Daily Record article, wouldn't topple in a hurricane, especially if they don't tie them down.
These things have been through worse than a hurricane many times before. Thrown on a ship, grabbed by a crane, dropped on a train, grabbed again by a crane, dropped on a truck, driven down the interstate. Sitting on a concrete pad is a walk in the park. I'm sure they will be securely fastened using those built in mechanisms that they've used dozens of times already.
I'd be more concerned with how they're going to insulate and keep them cool. It's not very much square footage to cool, but the sides of these things isn't really insulated and you can't add the insulation to the inside of them.
But hey, if they have a way make it happen.
Quote from: Steve on April 25, 2019, 01:31:05 PM
I'd be more concerned with how they're going to insulate and keep them cool. It's not very much square footage to cool, but the sides of these things isn't really insulated and you can't add the insulation to the inside of them.
But hey, if they have a way make it happen.
My thoughts exactly. These aren't intended to break a Cool Hand Luke.
Quote from: Steve on April 25, 2019, 01:31:05 PM
I'd be more concerned with how they're going to insulate and keep them cool. It's not very much square footage to cool, but the sides of these things isn't really insulated and you can't add the insulation to the inside of them.
But hey, if they have a way make it happen.
Here's the first hit in a Google search, 4 ways to do it: https://www.buildwithrise.com/stories/4-ways-to-insulate-a-container-home
They do acknowledge that you will sacrifice some interior inches with most methods.
Quote from: DrQue on April 25, 2019, 01:46:29 PM
Quote from: Steve on April 25, 2019, 01:31:05 PM
I'd be more concerned with how they're going to insulate and keep them cool. It's not very much square footage to cool, but the sides of these things isn't really insulated and you can't add the insulation to the inside of them.
But hey, if they have a way make it happen.
My thoughts exactly. These aren't intended to break a Cool Hand Luke.
Au contraire (https://www.discovercontainers.com/5-methods-to-insulate-your-shipping-container-home/).
I gave JWB the benefit of the doubt. Hotboxes typically don't lease well.
I think its a great little project to experiment with. Who knows were it will lead.
Quote from: Kiva on April 24, 2019, 05:52:20 PM
Quote from: Wombley Womberly on April 24, 2019, 05:12:08 PM
There is not any included parking.
https://www.wokv.com/news/local/shipping-container-apartment-complex-proposed-for-downtown-jacksonville/Mx70kTeQK5KETaduKlqaHI/
The rent is low enough that most of the tenants probably do not have cars.
Even most the poorest of the poor have cars these days.
The nice thing is that it makes the cost of the parking obvious by having it seperate.
The disadvantage is that there isn't any obvious monthly parking nearby. Yes? No? At least some parts of downtown, there's a ramp across the street and it'll run ya $90 / month for parking.
Or you park on the street over there for free as that section of downtown is meter free
It's not all meter free in the Cathedral district, is it? I don't remember them removing the meters that were over there. Maybe I missed that?
Either way, there aren't a lot of lots. I'm assuming the proposal is for one of the vacant lots at Market and Ashley. There isn't a lot of parking there. What is available is largely has a 2 hr limit.
https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=Bu2xUwVJMWW0j_q4jshwew&lat=30.330027777777786&lng=-81.65328888888888&z=17&focus=photo&x=0.24190622408257412&y=0.41668244666188237&zoom=2.5074626865671643
https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=E2fLivt0HM9aXVpoX_UfdA&lat=30.329936111111124&lng=-81.65308333333337&z=20&focus=photo
It's mostly meter free east of Market and north of Duval.
Quote from: bl8jaxnative on April 28, 2019, 02:36:19 PM
What is available is largely has a 2 hr limit.
that is not enforced - some residents of the Parks @ Cathedral townhomes park their 2nd car on the street
Unbundling parking, as Councilwoman Boyer's downtown zoning update proposes, makes it possible to develop this level of density on lots like these.
The zoning code currently requires you to have one on-site parking space per bedroom. That means on a 20x60 lot, you'd fit essentially a small duplex. In that case, you'd have just as much land dedicated to parking as you would have actual housing. Today's zoning forces you to build a product that is less dense than what the historical development pattern of the neighborhood once produced.
The kinds of missing middle housing that once dominated Jacksonville's urban core is very difficult to achieve within today's zoning code.
https://www.moderncities.com/article/2017-jan-the-missing-middle-affordable-housing-solution (https://www.moderncities.com/article/2017-jan-the-missing-middle-affordable-housing-solution)
Boyer's zoning changes are a really big deal within that context. There are a variety of factors that led to a net population loss of over 3,038 residents per mile within Jacksonville's per-consolidated city limits between 1950 and 2000.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/History/1940s-Downtown-Jacksonville/i-SQ2xgJH/0/72f0ec66/M/1940s%20aerial-1-M.jpg)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-6956-2000_census_tracts.jpg)
But if Jacksonville is really serious about ever regaining the density lost in the central city, then there needs to more zoning changes like this that would once again allow the kinds of naturally affordable, dense housing stock that used to flourish here.
Quote from: tufsu1 on April 28, 2019, 09:19:09 PM
Quote from: bl8jaxnative on April 28, 2019, 02:36:19 PM
What is available is largely has a 2 hr limit.
that is not enforced - some residents of the Parks @ Cathedral townhomes park their 2nd car on the street
How consistently restrictions are enforced is different from not having them at all.
It also doesn't mean more enforcement won't occur in the future. If neighbors start to complain about people parking for days on end in the street, the enforcement situation can literally change over night. It just depends.
"
Today's zoning forces you to build a product that is less dense than what the historical development pattern of the neighborhood once produced.
"
While I'd like to see the city's regulations lessened and simplified, I'm not sure why this is a bad thing. A lot of neighborhoods have empty lots that are ripe for consolidation. Consolidation that would enable more duplexes, triplexes and quads. That is, if the zoning is cleaned up in a way that allows for it.
Any talk in city hall of implementing similar changes to Minneapolis?