(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/History/Jacksonville-Landing-History-HDS-Architecture/i-k4TDvMz/0/36c3a067/L/Jacksonville-Landing-Exterior-HDS-Architecture-L.jpg)
QuoteThe $18 million deal to buy and demolish the Jacksonville Landing does not resolve an ongoing legal dispute between the City of Jacksonville and the Landing's owners over the parking lot east of the structure. Settling that litigation will cost the city over $4 million - and bring the cost of the Landing deal to over $22 million.
Read More: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/east-lot-litigation-will-add-4-million-to-landing-cost/
I walked through the Landing on my way into the office this morning.
It just blows my mind that the mayor and City Council can't see the potential in the place and how short-sighted everyone is being in the rush to demolish it.
Our schools are falling apart, our riverfront property is contaminated, and we're spending $22 million to raze what is easily downtown Jacksonville's most well-known structure.
It's such a terrible idea from a marketing perspective too. The Landing is a huge part of our brand as a city. It's inconic. Every single day, I see people posing for pictures by Friendship Fountain, or by the water taxi stop, with the Jacksonville Landing signage behind them. You see our skyline on a poster somewhere, or in an ad in another city, or in a flyover during a nationally televised sporting event, and you instantly know what city you're looking at.
Shame that the signage can't at least be designated historic.
(https://images.fineartamerica.com/images/artworkimages/mediumlarge/1/crossing-the-main-street-bridge-jacksonville-florida-cityscape-jason-politte.jpg)
What's the point of blowing up the Landing? Because we couldn't play nice with the owner? Because city leadership has no faith in its ability to creatively repurpose the facility, even though numerous cities have already provided a blueprint for repurposing Rouse festival marketplaces? Because we're afraid of losing our NFL franchise? Because we honestly think that a city with more (poorly maintained) parkland than anywhere else in the country needs another park in place of our only downtown retail center.
It's stupid.
Tearing a landmark down with ZERO publicly facing plan for what you intend to do after the fact.
Said it before, I'll say it again - this is the biggest mistake I've seen Jacksonville make since I moved here a decade ago.
Pure insanity.
I've gotta check out for a few weeks, for my own sanity.
It is pretty idiotic to say the least. For the life of me, I really don't know what the council and mayors office is thinking here.
Hopefully, we'll come to our senses and at least have an open and honest discussion about the future use of the site with the buildings still standing. Even a new plan with selective demo and reuse makes more sense than out right razing and starting over. Since you can do a million things with the structural components, including opening the site up the river and incorporating more outdoor space, it would be foolish to demolish without vetting that process. Essentially, demolishing as fast as possible ensures three things!
1. Whatever you replace it with with take longer to implement. Restaurants, food halls, public markets, event spaces, boutique hotel space, entertainment venues, cultural spaces like museums, etc. could all easily go into spaces within the existing structure now. With good management, you could have a very vibrant and active riverfront destination in the heart of the Northbank within a year or two. Demolishing and starting over, pushes the implementation process back a few years. Get hit with a recession in the next 24 months and we'll be looking at another hole in the middle of the city for another decade. Don't believe me, just follow the Peyton administration's mid-2000s dream for Kids Kampus and Metropolitan Park. They killed Kids Kampus but never did anything after that. A decade later, we're now hoping Iguana can be the new sugar daddy. In reality, we would have been better off leaving Kids Kampus alone and maintaining it.
2. Downtown will be a sleepier place for the next couple of years. You can't plan, RFP, design, reconstruct, etc. in less than a few years. Just look at Iguana. For all the money Khan is worth, they still haven't moved forward on those impressive renderings that's been showcased over the last four or five years. The Landing is basically the only cluster of businesses within the downtown core that stay open at night and weekends. With nothing to take their place, Downtown night and weekend foot traffic dramatically drops for the foreseeable future. It was already morbid, so this isn't a good thing.
3. Whatever you build from the ground up (if it's worthwhile) will cost taxpayers a lot more. Imagine what this site could be if we threw $10 million into improving it? How about $15 or $20 million? How many businesses could we pull in with that kind of money? Instead, we're going to spend $22 million to have nothing. Whatever happens after that is extra millions that we don't know about. At best, this is pretty fiscally irresponsible. This is sort of like demolishing your 30 year old house because your kitchen appliances, furniture, carpet and landscaping have become outdated.
Let me add my 2.5 cents...in my opinion they should find an alternative use for the Landing AND NOT RAZE IT. All this razing crap downtown, and just giving in and doing it by the Leaders of Jax, is driving me F'ing crazy! If other cities can find adaptable and alternative uses for their marketplaces that failed, Jax should be able to do the same. The Leaders of Jax, recently went to other cities to get ideas for downtown, etc.; why can't they send out another scouting mission to various cities whose festival marketplaces failed to get ideas for alternative uses for the Landing other than razing it? Oh, I guess that's too hard.
In the process of putting together the March 2019 urban construction update for tomorrow. Here's one Landing tenant that is in the process of relocating......to Murray Hill...
Good move for the business but so much for "keeping businesses downtown"...
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/UCU032419/i-LMvDjRM/0/0ef2525c/XL/20190324_111626-XL.jpg)
https://bdivinecustomdesigns.com/
Quote from: thelakelander on March 26, 2019, 10:46:41 AM
It is pretty idiotic to say the least. For the life of me, I really don't know what the council and mayors office is thinking here.
Hopefully, we'll come to our senses and at least have an open and honest discussion about the future use of the site with the buildings still standing. Even a new plan with selective demo and reuse makes more sense than out right razing and starting over. Since you can do a million things with the structural components, including opening the site up the river and incorporating more outdoor space, it would be foolish to demolish without vetting that process. Essentially, demolishing as fast as possible ensures three things!
1. Whatever you replace it with with take longer to implement. Restaurants, food halls, public markets, event spaces, boutique hotel space, entertainment venues, cultural spaces like museums, etc. could all easily go into spaces within the existing structure now. With good management, you could have a very vibrant and active riverfront destination in the heart of the Northbank within a year or two. Demolishing and starting over, pushes the implementation process back a few years. Get hit with a recession in the next 24 months and we'll be looking at another hole in the middle of the city for another decade. Don't believe me, just follow the Peyton administration's mid-2000s dream for Kids Kampus and Metropolitan Park. They killed Kids Kampus but never did anything after that. A decade later, we're now hoping Iguana can be the new sugar daddy. In reality, we would have been better off leaving Kids Kampus alone and maintaining it.
2. Downtown will be a sleepier place for the next couple of years. You can't plan, RFP, design, reconstruct, etc. in less than a few years. Just look at Iguana. For all the money Khan is worth, they still haven't moved forward on those impressive renderings that's been showcased over the last four or five years. The Landing is basically the only cluster of businesses within the downtown core that stay open at night and weekends. With nothing to take their place, Downtown night and weekend foot traffic dramatically drops for the foreseeable future. It was already morbid, so this isn't a good thing.
3. Whatever you build from the ground up (if it's worthwhile) will cost taxpayers a lot more. Imagine what this site could be if we threw $10 million into improving it? How about $15 or $20 million? How many businesses could we pull in with that kind of money? Instead, we're going to spend $22 million to have nothing. Whatever happens after that is extra millions that we don't know about. At best, this is pretty fiscally irresponsible. This is sort of like demolishing your 30 year old house because your kitchen appliances, furniture, carpet and landscaping have become outdated.
I agree wholeheartedly "Lake." What in the world, or where in the world are their heads at? Is there anything that the citizens of Jax can do to let the Mayor, City Council, City Government, etc., know, or inform them, that the City as a whole does not want the Landing razed, and/or get a survey from the citizens to see how many would like the Landing razed, and if they don't want it wrecking balled, to please find an alternative, adaptable use for it? I can't believe they are thinking of putting a park, an empty park mind you with another one a few blocks away, right on a prime piece of riverfront land. Let's raze and "wreck ball" the city government and the Mayor because they are out of line, off the chain, and their heads are "off the swivel."
Quote from: thelakelander on March 26, 2019, 11:27:17 AM
In the process of putting together the March 2019 urban construction update for tomorrow. Here's one Landing tenant that is in the process of relocating......to Murray Hill...
Good move for the business but so much for "keeping businesses downtown"...
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/UCU032419/i-LMvDjRM/0/0ef2525c/XL/20190324_111626-XL.jpg)
https://bdivinecustomdesigns.com/
Which one is it, Bobby K, or Blackhat Vapor Company?
Quote from: heights unknown on March 26, 2019, 11:29:35 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on March 26, 2019, 11:27:17 AM
In the process of putting together the March 2019 urban construction update for tomorrow. Here's one Landing tenant that is in the process of relocating......to Murray Hill...
Good move for the business but so much for "keeping businesses downtown"...
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/UCU032419/i-LMvDjRM/0/0ef2525c/XL/20190324_111626-XL.jpg)
https://bdivinecustomdesigns.com/
Which one is it, Bobby K, or Blackhat Vapor Company?
Neither, it's Beautifully Divine. They're filling the space formerly occupied by BobbyK (BobbyK is planning to move their Murray Hill shop to a different location in Murray Hill).
If you were a developer and looking at Jacksonville for a potential investment, what would turn you off more? A bunch of vacant properties, neglected areas, no sensible vision in place? I think all of these is the reason nobody is doing anything in Jacksonville's downtown. When it come to our Cowford the developers wait until they can get the city to be the benefactor in most instances. This Landing episode is nothing more than Lenny making sure Kahn's lot J has no competition. What a nightmare.
A developer would invest if there is a decent ROI involved in the deal. Sometimes older buildings (like 100 year old buildings) can be a bit of a challenge in a morbid downtown area because of the amount of money it takes to bring them up to code. Especially if they've been allowed to decay over a long period of time. Structurally sound buildings that can be acquired at a decent number have the possibility to allow for a number of uses that may not be viable if your development costs also have to include 100% new construction. In general, once the property is in COJ's hands, it would make sense to issue a RFP and see what type of responses come in. If you do want additional green space, retail, markets, etc., leave some flexibility in the RFP and allow the responses to use their creativity in accomplishing your public desires. Outright razing everything limits your possibilities and forces redevelopment to be more expensive. It also makes the redevelopment process less inclusive.
Apparently tonight there will be no public comment before the City Council vote on the Landing, and the votes are lined up for it to pass easily. It's insane to me to see this city throwing $22 million around like rappers at a strip club, over an idea this bad.
That said, there are still several months before the Landing would be demolished. That's time to float other ideas that could do what COJ says it wants - more green space, reduced footprint, an opening at Laura Street - without demolishing the main structure. In the very least, we can remember this mistake so that we don't keep repeating it forever.
The most shocking thing, to me, is how many of my friends and family still in town are totally in favor of tearing down the Landing. "Good! It sucks! Tear it down!" No issue at all with the millions of dollars it'll ultimately cost to tear it down or the barren riverfront space that is absolutely going to sit undeveloped for at least a decade.
The whole thing is mind boggling.
Quote from: Bativac on March 26, 2019, 06:37:52 PM
The most shocking thing, to me, is how many of my friends and family still in town are totally in favor of tearing down the Landing. "Good! It sucks! Tear it down!" No issue at all with the millions of dollars it'll ultimately cost to tear it down or the barren riverfront space that is absolutely going to sit undeveloped for at least a decade.
The whole thing is mind boggling.
Jax has the urban core it deserves.
^Absolute truth.
Last thing I'll say, and then I really am going to unplug for awhile:
What a disgrace tonight.
15-1 vote in favor of demoltion, with only Anna Brosche objecting.
The kicker, Danny Becton proposed separating the $1.5 million demolition into a future vote until we figured out what we were going to with the property, and the idea was completely shut down.
The strawman argument was that if Sleiman couldn't make the Landing successful, neither could the city, and that maintenance costs for the city would be cost prohibitive in coming years.
Only option taken seriously was wholesale demo.
The idea of RFP'ing management, ownership, rehab to another entity was never even considered.
Brian Hughes statement that the city doesn't want to "host events, cover liabilities, etc." pretty much guarantees that the Landing as we know it, whether it be mall or park, has reached end-of-life in terms of being a civic center for the city.
I'm sure all the businesses in the CBD will appreciate our event hub being move a mile east to the stadium district.
Stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid.
It's just so insanely frustrating to care.
Quote from: KenFSU on March 26, 2019, 08:48:01 PM
Brian Hughes statement that the city doesn't want to "host events, cover liabilities, etc." pretty much guarantees that the Landing as we know it, whether it be mall or park, has reached end-of-life in terms of being a civic center for the city.
This tells you all you need to know about downtown's future. All the puff media pieces and bold statements are really nothing more than blowing smoke up your backside as tax dollars are hemorrhaged in the process. Whatever goes there will likely become a homeless haven. No matter how you want to slice it, no matter what local leadership will tell you, you have to be willing to program spaces and integrate them with a mix of uses if you really want vibrancy. If you're going to own property, that means covering liabilities associated with it. If you don't want to deal with those responsibilities, get out the real estate game. This is pretty basic stuff Jax continues to fail at.
Quote from: KenFSU on March 26, 2019, 08:48:01 PM
I'm sure all the businesses in the CBD will appreciate our event hub being move a mile east to the stadium district.
Good luck at that happening. We'll be in a recession before those dreams take off and the current crop of elected representatives will likely be term limited out by the time the economy recovers. If anyone thinks the landing had its challenges, just wait in 10 years when you have a carbon copy of it sitting in a parking lot by itself and half empty.
Does Lenny stay in office to 2023, and then go to work for Khan; or does he run for some state office in 2022?
Quote from: Snaketoz on March 26, 2019, 01:15:37 PM
If you were a developer and looking at Jacksonville for a potential investment, what would turn you off more? A bunch of vacant properties, neglected areas, no sensible vision in place? I think all of these is the reason nobody is doing anything in Jacksonville's downtown. When it come to our Cowford the developers wait until they can get the city to be the benefactor in most instances. This Landing episode is nothing more than Lenny making sure Kahn's lot J has no competition. What a nightmare.
Nothing to attract people downtown, very little foot traffic, very few events happening, vacant store fronts, skyscrapers, and other buildings, too many empty properties, and in general, just nothing, nothing at all going on. I remember a few years back when I lived in Jax, a friend of mine from Germany came to visit. I took him downtown and when he saw the tall buildings he was excited. He took pictures and asked was there anything to do or any place to go, and at the time I had to tell him no for the exception of the Landing. When we were leaving downtown, he was taking pics of the skyline and then he shook his head, wagging his head from side to side. I asked him what was the matter? He told me in these words......."ALL THOSE TALL BUILDINGS AND NOTHING GOING ON." So that says it all.