QuoteThe walls of the old Duval County courthouse are coming down, but the fate of the riverfront land beneath the building remains up in the air after the Downtown Investment Authority board on Wednesday unanimously rejected proposals from developers for a new convention center at the downtown site.
Board members did not discuss what to do next with the city-owned land after demolition of the courthouse and the next-door city hall annex clears the property for redevelopment.
"I don't think there's any definite plan in place," board member Ron Moody said after the meeting. "I think it's wide open, and we'll let the market forces react and see if there's someone else who would come in to develop the property."
Brian Hughes, interim CEO of the investment authority, said the next move could be a meeting between DIA board Chairman Jim Bailey and Mayor Lenny Curry, followed by Bailey seeking insights from fellow board members at a future board meeting.
"It's not outside the realm of possibility that the January [board] meeting might have some contemplation of next steps," Hughes said.
Full article: https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20181212/tear-down-of-courthouse-leaves-wide-open-options-for-city?start=2
Wide open surface lot. This is prime property, how long will it sit empty.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on December 12, 2018, 09:08:13 PM
Wide open surface lot. This is prime property, how long will it sit empty.
If history is a guide, it will be many years.
It took over 20 years for redevelopment in LaVilla to heat up. We're still waiting for the infill development boom to happen around the new (can we still call it new?) county courthouse.
"Tear-down of _______ leaves wide-open options for city"
Repeat this headline every few years
Reads like an Onion article.
Glad they had this all figured out prior to investing close to $100 million in tearing down the entire area.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 12, 2018, 08:59:42 PM
Quote"I don't think there's any definite plan in place," board member Ron Moody said after the meeting.
Quote"I think it's wide open, and we'll let the market forces react and see if there's someone else who would come in to develop the property."
Quote"It's not outside the realm of possibility that the January [board] meeting might have some contemplation of next steps."
^Lol, how long have we known that this site was going to replaced by the Duval County Courthouse on the other side downtown? 20 years? Moody's quotes illustrate a long standing problem. We should have had this discussion take place 15 years ago.
Just to deviate from the beaten stepchild tone typical, and well earned, within these sorts of conversations, seems to me that the location of this property is a huge differential from other dormant properties. It's in the Elbow, it's adjacent to condos and townhouses that are in the $200k-$500k price range, it's directly on the water, and it's just about half way between TIAA Field and the Times Union. So, while I'd love to see a permanent green space there, I really doubt it will be dormant for too long.
Quote from: downtownbrown on December 13, 2018, 11:52:23 AM
Just to deviate from the beaten stepchild tone typical, and well earned, within these sorts of conversations, seems to me that the location of this property is a huge differential from other dormant properties. It's in the Elbow, it's adjacent to condos and townhouses that are in the $200k-$500k price range, it's directly on the water, and it's just about half way between TIAA Field and the Times Union. So, while I'd love to see a permanent green space there, I really doubt it will be dormant for too long.
The same was said about the former JEA Southside Generating Station powerplant. Closed in 2001, JEA spent $25 million to demolish the plant in 2003, accepted a bid in 2005 to redevelop the site (which never closed), accepted another bid on the property in 2014 to redevelop the site (for about $7mllion less than they paid to demolish the structure), closed on that sale in 2018 and vertical construction has yet to have taken place (and likely won't for several years).
Being 10 years into a booming real estate cycle also doesn't help things, either. The market will begin to turn again sooner rather than later.
The real winners downtown are the companies that get paid to demolish buildings.
Yeah, except the Elbow is not the Southside, and Khan has no interest in the Southside. We'll see, but like I said, a greenspace is fine with me, and Bay Street will welcome the sunshine.
Khan's been interested in the Shipyards for how many years now? Before him, it was LandMar and Trilegacy. We're a good 20 years of talking about its future too...and we're still a few years away from anything going vertical south of the Hart Bridge ramp...assuming nothing goes wrong.
Quote from: downtownbrown on December 13, 2018, 03:15:18 PM
Yeah, except the Elbow is not the Southside, and Khan has no interest in the Southside. We'll see, but like I said, a greenspace is fine with me, and Bay Street will welcome the sunshine.
The former JEA powerplant site (AKA The District, AKA the Southside Generating Station) site is not on the Southside of Jacksonville... it's downtown. It also sits on hundreds of feet of urban waterfront, it's also adjacent to (more) condos, townhouses, single family homes and multifamily apartments, and unlike The Elbow (which is simply a collection of fairly forgettable bars, and a nice steakhouse) it has direct access to I-95 with the recent completion of an interchange at Atlantic Blvd. Not sure how the former Courthouse site is leaps and bounds different than The District site from a development perspective.
Khan has not expressed any interest on the Courthouse site either, so not sure what you are implying there. As Lakelander said, the Shipyards site is now on its 4th development group in the last 20 years, and still not much action. Even if Khan closed on the property tomorrow (which isn't going to happen), that's still a 15 year project.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 13, 2018, 03:22:26 PM
Khan's been interested in the Shipyards for how many years now? Before him, it was LandMar and Trilegacy. We're a good 20 years of talking about its future too...and we're still a few years away from anything going vertical south of the Hart Bridge ramp...assuming nothing goes wrong.
I think a few years might even be generous.
Before anything goes vertical at the Shipyards:
1) We'd need to negotiate an economic development agreement with Iguana for the property (the Lot J agreement has taken nearly a year, and is still not signed) and the cleanup
2) Iguana would have to create a detailed master plan for the Shipyards (let's call this 9 months)
3) An RFP for environmental remediation would need to be put together, released, and awarded based on the planned uses for each area (let's call this 4 months)
4) Environmental remediation of 70 acres of highly contaminated industrial land would need to take place (3 years from selection to completion has been estimated)
5) The EPA would need to give the land a clean bill of health for intended uses (this took the District close to a year)
Maybe one or two of these steps could happen concurrently, but assuming everything goes perfectly smoothly, I don't see how anything is built at the Shipyards any sooner than five or six years from now.
Environmental is going to be a bear.
Lets move the jail there..lol
What a depressing, real world thread. Can't we just go back to the pretty pictures Iguana has drawn up for some undetermined date in the future?
And as Lake has pointed out MANY TIMES, the upward swing in the economy will not last forever.
That being said, with the current Republican view toward the environment and the EPA, maybe they can wave a wand and declare the site clean and ready for build out.
Quote from: MusicMan on December 14, 2018, 08:57:17 AM
That being said, with the current Republican view toward the environment and the EPA, maybe they can wave a wand and declare the site clean and ready for build out.
That is not outside the realm of possibility.
Meanwhile, the DIA has taken two Khan-favorable steps. They expanded the development rights granted to The Shipyards to include Metro Park and Lot "J". And, they formally shut down the Convention Center at the Old Court House process.
Quote
DIA voted Wednesday to more than double the area on which the Shipyards developer has the rights to build 400 marina slips, 662 residential units, 100,000 square feet of commercial space, 1 million square feet of office space and 350 hotel rooms.
The expanded rights must be approved by the council.
Also on Wednesday, DIA officially quashed the plan to build a convention center at the site of the old courthouse and city hall annex.
https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2018/12/13/dia-expands-shipyards-development-rights.html?ana=e_me_set1&s=newsletter&ed=2018-12-14&u=qn2xgMusSvJCgTcRVcM9Dg07e466fb&t=1544797443&j=85543501
Yes it has been overlooked that decades of study recommended the courthouse site as the best for a convention center. Yet while saying it's too early to invest in one, somehow a decision has been made to keep one from ever being built at that location.
Quote from: Charles Hunter on December 14, 2018, 09:28:43 AM
Meanwhile, the DIA has taken two Khan-favorable steps. They expanded the development rights granted to The Shipyards to include Metro Park and Lot "J". And, they formally shut down the Convention Center at the Old Court House process.
Funny things happen when the mayor's chief of staff takes over as interim CEO of the DIA.
Aundra Wallace was pro-Courthouse site, and was already talking to Hyatt about creative ways to move people back and forth between a Courthouse convention center and the stadium district.
Can't help but think there might have been more pushback about canceling the RFP outright if Wallace was still CEO.
Might as well change the name of the city to Khanville.
^Let's at least wait until something gets built.
It all feels like a shell game.
First, we give the Jaguars the Shipyards.
Then they ask for Met Park instead.
Next, we give the Jaguars the Shipyards and Met Park.
Then, they ask for the Hart Bridge Ramps to be removed.
Next, we lobby for the Hart Bridge ramps to be removed.
Then, they ask for Lot J instead.
Nothing's built.
Quite literally the entire redevelopment area - from Lot J, to parts of Met Park, to the entire Shipyards, to all the land under the Hart Bridge ramps - is horribly contaminated with no remediation plan in place.
And here we are are making long-term decisions on a convention center, talking about relocating the jail, squeezing the owners out of the Landing, and putting our long-term transportation eggs into a JRTC to stadium district corridor based on a pile of flashy, ever-changing renderings that are no closer to happening today than they were four years ago.
I just find it interesting to use a study to say the time isn't right for investment, but then ignore all the studies regarding convention center location and kill the entire location from further consideration. I still believe the most logical thing would be to work with Hyatt to get a +100k square foot exhibition hall behind the hotel and directly attached to it's second floor meeting/ballroom level since the we're demoing city hall annex. Looking how much money these things lose in larger tourist friendly cities, I think it's highly questionable on building anything much larger, no matter how pretty the renderings look. Even 100k sf gives you +20k sf more than what the Prime Osborn has. It also clears that site for courting Virgin Trains USA, relocating Amtrak or whatever and its centrally located to the Elbow, Florida Theatre, TU center, Northbank riverwalk, the hotels coming in along Laura and the Landing (yes, I'm ignoring the political football being played there right now). The combination of these things and the synergy they create together is the supportive development the report claims DT lacks.
Also, given the elevation changes, you could still get some ground floor retail in and design the structure for vertical addition or mixed-use development whenever there's a market for it. That would take care of the convention center issue for decades and for a fraction of the costs, without requiring building over the part of the river being exposed. If people are too bougie for the Hyatt, throw in some extra cash to upgrade the hotel. That would be a lot cheaper than subsidizing another $100 million plus convention center hotel in a market that can't support two of them. However, I'm beginning to understand how logic can take a back seat when other dynamics are at play.
Down goes the old courthouse! Many of the surrounding buildings have windows blown as a result of the implosion.
The imposion was pretty awesome. A waste, but pretty awesome.
I saw the replay on social media and tv since it's being pushed like a big party. On the news they said the building cost $6 million to build but $8 million to blow up. Crazy but it pretty much serves as a microcosm DT Jax's decades long revitalization struggle.
So $5 million used to implode the bldg. I wonder what might have happened had $5million in cash been dangled in front of the winner of an open-ended mixed-use RFP, payable upon issuance of a certificate of occupancy? Right now we have yet another swath of open space and even less of at least the appearance of vitality downtown. Instead, more visible vacancy, wasteland, abandonment. At least there's a river view. I also wondered about the wisdom of the city needing to spend money on site prep. Wouldn't a developer have done his own site prep? Was the bldg being there, really that much of an impediment to redevelopment (open-ended redevelopment, not just convention center)?
I saw the social media clips as well. I was unclear on what people are celebrating. This fairly expensive bit of destruction doesn't presage anything at all! It was done without replacement, without a specific plan, without signaling the beginning of new active land use for the site. Seems really bone-headed but perhaps someone can shed light because I feel I'm missing something.
"Bold New City of the South"?
No, Seriously when I heard there was an implosion downtown I thought they were describing the Jaguars season....
Quote from: jaxnyc79 on January 20, 2019, 12:03:04 PM
I saw the social media clips as well. I was unclear on what people are celebrating. This fairly expensive bit of destruction doesn't presage anything at all! It was done without replacement, without a specific plan, without signaling the beginning of new active land use for the site. Seems really bone-headed but perhaps someone can shed light because I feel I'm missing something.
People like watching things blow up.
That's it.
An interesting task for someone: Date all the tear-downs/implosions of significant Jax buildings and the number of years it took to build something worthwhile back on the property. Can start with all the demolished hotels, destruction of Lavilla, the bus station, retail stores, etc. Next, I bet once JEA moves on, the Universal-Marion building comes down soon thereafter. It's a little humorous that the quickest "build back" was likely the Gator Bowl into the current TIAA Field. Tells you everything about Jax priorities or lack thereof.
I don't recall any efforts or discussion regarding renovating or re-purposing the City Hall just torn down. It seems it will join the historic City Hall's of years gone by that we now only wish were preserved as icons of their times. What was the rush to tear the building down?
The City is enemy #1 when it comes to destroying our historic buildings. Every day, Jax lacks more and more historic character (or, for that matter, character of any kind) and we are left with mostly cold, colorless, non-descript, unfriendly, boxy concrete and glass buildings that fail to create any memorable identity for Downtown. Buildings of old were much more daring and interesting in their architecture than most anything built in Jax in the last 50+ years.
We are not Miami or NYC but we could maybe draw a little inspiration from their buildings. Our conservative skyline defines the City as less than progressive. Surely, an accurate portrayal but one many claim to want to change. Well, then do something different than what we are currently doing. The outcome of Daily's Place from an exciting concept to a drab structure of steel and canvas typifies the differential between potential and reality in our fair city and our failure to bridge the gap.
I am concerned that, without a complete rebuild of our approach (really, do we even have one?) to the urban core, promised developments currently discussed will likewise disappoint/fail the test of time (see Jax Landing) and downtown Jax will continue to tread water and suffer vacant lots, drab buildings and unfulfilled potential as it mostly has since WWII. Ho hum....
This is just more of the same backward thinking we had during the "good ole boy" days of the past. I guess we'll be seeing a bare spot in the downtown for quite awhile, then we'll give the lot away to someone in the "good new boy" network. To spend more to tear it down than it cost to build is pitiful. It will be interesting to see who owns this property in the future. Now, Boy Wonder can get back to work wrestling the Landing away from Sleiman, so that he can turn it into a downtown bait shop.
First, I think demolishing the Old City Hall without exploring re-use options is dumb.
Just to put the "cost more to tear down than build" meme in perspective. The $6 million construction cost in 1960, the year it opened, is equivalent to $50.3 million in today's dollars. Based on this website: https://www.saving.org/inflation/
^I'm sure whenever something does materialize, we'll be asked to provide additional incentives.
Quote from: Charles Hunter on January 20, 2019, 05:24:36 PM
Just to put the "cost more to tear down than build" meme in perspective. The $6 million construction cost in 1960, the year it opened, is equivalent to $50.3 million in today's dollars. Based on this website: https://www.saving.org/inflation/
Exactly. That's why repurposing it is more sensible. A $6 million dollar investment in the building, $8 million to demolish it, and now we have a pile of rubble and are $58+ million into it. (In today's dollars)
Historically this will prove to be as bad a decision as much of what happened in LaVilla or Brooklyn.
totally disagree. A 1960s asbestos filled monolith with no redeeming architectural qualities is gone. Green grass will be a great improvement.
^The Barnett, Laura Trio and St. James also had asbestos and it was more architecturally compelling than Berkman and Hyatt. So I take it you're not a fan of mid century modern?
I think EVENTUALLY, the courthouse site will be filled with something as large or larger, but it is hard to see a denser building going up at the annex site. Someone should have taken a good look at re purposing it. It seems like a residential conversion was a legitimate possibility. More residents is what DT needs the most too. The ground level had potential for a restaurant or other retail as well.
Quote from: downtownbrown on January 21, 2019, 09:08:31 AM
totally disagree. A 1960s asbestos filled monolith with no redeeming architectural qualities is gone. Green grass will be a great improvement.
I'm glad you didn't live in St. Augustine in the 17th century. Surely, Castillo de San Marcos should have been torn down due to it's ugly architecture.
Perhaps the real question now is what other structures could be on the chopping block....
^^yeah. the Annex and the Fort. Great comparison of style. Excellent point.
Quote from: billy on January 21, 2019, 11:10:26 AM
Perhaps the real question now is what other structures could be on the chopping block....
This one is easy......the JEA Building, just as soon as JEA abandons it.
Was it the courthouse that was imploded or the City Hall Annex?
Annex was imploded. Courthouse came down through old fashioned demo.
Quote from: Steve on January 21, 2019, 12:51:08 PM
Annex was imploded. Courthouse came down through old fashioned demo.
Ah, thanks. Did they do them at the same(ish) time? I had friends posting about the implosion of the Annex, but hadn't seen anything about the courthouse.
It's a shame about the Annex. I'm sure there are or were plenty of reasons why it couldn't be repurposed, but it was a beautiful building anyway.
QuoteI'm sure there are or were plenty of reasons why it couldn't be repurposed
Considering the asbestos had to be removed regardless, I rather doubt that. If the Berkman 2 building can shift from condos to hotel after standing vacant and half-built for a decade, it seems there were possibilities with the Annex too.
I still say Curry and Khan thought the buildings were ugly and dated and therefore had to go.
Quote from: vicupstate on January 21, 2019, 02:00:30 PM
QuoteI'm sure there are or were plenty of reasons why it couldn't be repurposed
Considering the asbestos had to be removed regardless, I rather doubt that. If the Berkman 2 building can shift from condos to hotel after standing vacant and half-built for a decade, it seems there were possibilities with the Annex too.
I still say Curry and Khan thought the buildings were ugly and dated and therefore had to go.
It's a shame - I know a lot of that mid-century architecture polarises opinion, but I thought it was one of the cooler buildings downtown. I like the TU building, too.
People wanted the Haydon Burns demolished too. I was one of them. However, I've come to believe that good architecture polarizes opinions. Bad architecture is the type no one gives a damn about. Looking back, I'm happy duPont stepped in and fixed the place up. It's pretty nice now and very unique to Jacksonville. Can't say the same about Berkman or the other Jacksonville beige buildings constructed in the 2000s.
Mid-century modern seems to be a polarizing style, and while I think that the Annex is probably not in the upper echelon of mid century modern now (you might even argue that it has elements of Brutalist Architecture), it still could have been re-purposed very, very nicely. FSU recently updated it's mid-century modern physics building with modern glass and it looks great. I'm sure there are countless examples nationally.
https://www.facilities.fsu.edu/depts/designConstr/ActiveProjects/?p=412
I've seen photos on social media of the annex the night before demo with black banding (explosives) and you can see how much better the building would look with horizontal articulation on the large brick wall. Any architect worth a damn would have been able to add features along the roofline and side brick wall to make it one of the better buildings in Jax.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 21, 2019, 02:58:41 PM
People wanted the Haydon Burns demolished too. I was one of them. However, I've come to believe that good architecture polarizes opinions. Bad architecture is the type no one gives a damn about. Looking back, I'm happy duPont stepped in and fixed the place up. It's pretty nice now and very unique to Jacksonville. Can't say the same about Berkman or the other Jacksonville beige buildings constructed in the 2000s.
I loved the Haydon Burns library, but I totally get your point. Better to have architecture that people talk about then to have architecture that no one even notices. You don't really get a sense of place when everything is bland and uninspiring.
I always liked that building, even as a youngster. I was hoping they would have figured out a way to save it. Our skyline is already lacking, sparse, disproportionate, and as someone said, a good, solid and dense skyline is usually a sign of progress and success within an urban core. If that is correct, outside of the proposed developments on the table, Jax' downtown is regressing (possibly). I just hope we don't make too many of these mistakes again.
Quote from: CityLife on January 21, 2019, 04:19:18 PMI've seen photos on social media of the annex the night before demo with black banding (explosives) and you can see how much better the building would look with horizontal articulation on the large brick wall. Any architect worth a damn would have been able to add features along the roofline and side brick wall to make it one of the better buildings in Jax.
To further add to the this idea, The building had great potential for a world class rooftop bar/lounge/restaurant concept.
Look at what the owner's of Tallahassee's drab Downtown Doubletree building are doing. Don't think it's the best possible design, but the concept along with additional facade improvements could have made the annex an incredible building.
http://urbantallahassee.com/eve-on-adams-doubletrees-17th-floor-cocktail-lounge/
Apparently the DIA will be deciding next steps on the courthouse property today.
The three options are:
1) Accept the (unsolicited) Riverwalk Place bid and begin negotiations with Rimrock Devlin.
2) Issue an RFI for ideas for the property.
3) Issue a formal RFP, with the understanding that the winning bid would move forward.
Option number one seems completely irresponsible to me. I don't see how you can get away with issuing an RFP for a convention center, having a handful of companies put substantial time and resources into a good-faith response, and then choosing an unsolicited proposal for a completely different use case instead. Seems like the recipe for a lawsuit.
Would also be insane to just agree to the first (unsolicited) idea for the property without issuing a formal RFP.
If option number one is chosen, it's a clear tip-of-the-hat that a Shipyards convention center is going to be a thing. Rimrock Devlin's Riverwalk Place proposal was originally issued as almost contingent on the Shipyards convention center happening.
Clearly not everything is a conspiracy theory, but I just don't understand why there isn't a fourth option that involves either holding the land until we can afford a convention center, or re-issuing a scaled-down convention center specific RFP with requirements more in line with what we can afford and what the market can reasonably support.
There's no 4th option because they want the convention center at the Shipyards.
I bet #1 won't happen because Khan didn't want to do it in the first place. It was just a defensive play to disrupt the convention center plan. And it worked.
They're issuing a new RFP for the property, opening it up to all uses.
Will be interesting to see if the courthouse fiasco scares developers off.
Quote from: KenFSU on February 26, 2019, 12:05:05 PM
They're issuing a new RFP for the property, opening it up to all uses.
Will be interesting to see if the courthouse fiasco scares developers off.
If you're not going to do a Convention Center, then this is the right thing to do.
Now, what's to stop the owners of the Hyatt for responding to the RFP with a convention center of their own?
Quote from: KenFSU on February 26, 2019, 12:05:05 PM
They're issuing a new RFP for the property, opening it up to all uses.
Will be interesting to see if the courthouse fiasco scares developers off.
Get ready for observation towers, ferris wheels, aquariums, and theme parks.
^ all of that is OK by me.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on February 26, 2019, 01:40:01 PM
Get ready for observation towers, ferris wheels, aquariums, and theme parks.
Oh my!
Maybe this one would work 8)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfsR1_lxnuw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfsR1_lxnuw)
Quote from: Steve on February 26, 2019, 01:33:19 PM
If you're not going to do a Convention Center, then this is the right thing to do.
Now, what's to stop the owners of the Hyatt for responding to the RFP with a convention center of their own?
The fact that the city won't pay for two of them, and the one at the Shipyards is the favored site. No way Hyatt would shell out that kind of money for something that would lose millions every year.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on February 26, 2019, 01:40:01 PM
Quote from: KenFSU on February 26, 2019, 12:05:05 PM
They're issuing a new RFP for the property, opening it up to all uses.
Will be interesting to see if the courthouse fiasco scares developers off.
Get ready for observation towers, ferris wheels, aquariums, and theme parks.
You forgot the damned zip line...
Khan holds a lot of sway for someone who does not even have a residence in Jacksonville.
Does that bother anyone?
Quote from: MusicMan on February 26, 2019, 06:01:07 PM
Khan holds a lot of sway for someone who does not even have a residence in Jacksonville.
Does that bother anyone?
Not really. Plenty of NFL owners don't live in the places where their teams are located. David Tepper lived in New Jersey and moved to Miami Beach, neither of which are near Charlotte's Carolina Panthers. As far as my concerns as Khan go, that's the least of them.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on February 26, 2019, 01:40:01 PM
Quote from: KenFSU on February 26, 2019, 12:05:05 PM
They're issuing a new RFP for the property, opening it up to all uses.
Will be interesting to see if the courthouse fiasco scares developers off.
Get ready for observation towers, ferris wheels, aquariums, and theme parks.
Don't forget the USS Adams! It ain't scrap yet! BRING THE ADAMS HOME!
Quote from: MusicMan on February 26, 2019, 06:01:07 PM
Khan holds a lot of sway for someone who does not even have a residence in Jacksonville.
Does that bother anyone?
Yes it does. In most cities governed by a Plutocracy, the Plutocrats are locals. However, Jax doesn't have many (or any) homegrown uber-wealthy so we have to import them.
Quote from: MusicMan on February 26, 2019, 06:01:07 PM
Khan holds a lot of sway for someone who does not even have a residence in Jacksonville.
Does that bother anyone?
{looks at this forum for 5 seconds}
Yes.
lol still amazes me how you guys get your panties in a bunch about Khan. As if anyone else has been beating down the door to do ANYTHING in Jacksonville. As much as I love Jax for my own sentimental reasons (family), why would anyone who's a millionaire and not native to Jax want to live there permanently?
Relatively low taxes and cheap real estate. 2 things I can think of. Oh yeah, pretty nice beaches too. And excellent health care infrastructure. Cost of living also pretty low compared to South Florida.... Opportunity to make an impact in a city starved for creative entrepreneurs and investors?
I forgot,...... a cheap NFL franchise! (That's what brought Khan here, nothing more.)
Quote from: comncense on February 28, 2019, 08:11:14 PM
lol still amazes me how you guys get your panties in a bunch about Khan. As if anyone else has been beating down the door to do ANYTHING in Jacksonville. As much as I love Jax for my own sentimental reasons (family), why would anyone who's a millionaire and not native to Jax want to live there permanently?
It blows me away too... lol. Self made immigrant billionaire... exactly what we should promote and celebrate... yet wealth and power envy take precedent for many... (shakes head) :o ::) :)
Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 01, 2019, 08:12:45 AM
Quote from: comncense on February 28, 2019, 08:11:14 PM
lol still amazes me how you guys get your panties in a bunch about Khan. As if anyone else has been beating down the door to do ANYTHING in Jacksonville. As much as I love Jax for my own sentimental reasons (family), why would anyone who's a millionaire and not native to Jax want to live there permanently?
It blows me away too... lol. Self made immigrant billionaire... exactly what we should promote and celebrate... yet wealth and power envy take precedent for many... (shakes head) :o ::) :)
...and reading comprehension takes a backseat for many, it would appear.
Quote from: Adam White on March 01, 2019, 08:16:45 AM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on March 01, 2019, 08:12:45 AM
Quote from: comncense on February 28, 2019, 08:11:14 PM
lol still amazes me how you guys get your panties in a bunch about Khan. As if anyone else has been beating down the door to do ANYTHING in Jacksonville. As much as I love Jax for my own sentimental reasons (family), why would anyone who's a millionaire and not native to Jax want to live there permanently?
It blows me away too... lol. Self made immigrant billionaire... exactly what we should promote and celebrate... yet wealth and power envy take precedent for many... (shakes head) :o ::) :)
...and reading comprehension takes a backseat for many, it would appear.
So it would seem...
"Not really. Plenty of NFL owners don't live in the places where their teams are located. David Tepper lived in New Jersey and moved to Miami Beach, neither of which are near Charlotte's Carolina Panthers. As far as my concerns as Khan go, that's the least of them."
Interesting. Is he among the biggest real estate developers in Charlotte as well? Because Khan has no equal here. And I am not complaining per se. But I would love to see him at least pick up a "seasonal" residence here (not KISMET), as it looks like he wants to completely redesign downtown to best suit his interests.
In that case let's put Khan at the end of the line of all of the locals who want to develop the Shipyards and stadium area.
Quote from: MusicMan on March 01, 2019, 08:41:01 AM
Interesting. Is he among the biggest real estate developers in Charlotte as well? Because Khan has no equal here. And I am not complaining per se. But I would love to see him at least pick up a "seasonal" residence here (not KISMET), as it looks like he wants to completely redesign downtown to best suit his interests.
That might be on the way (https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2018/08/10/carolina-panthers-city-may-soon-tackle-real-estate.html)...
I'd say that Kerry and I are two of the more vocal critics of Khan on this forum. But neither of us has ever hated on him for being wealthy - our complaints have to do with handing him taxpayer money. I oppose corporate welfare on principle, not envy.
I also have criticized his douchey ponytail. But lots of poor people have those, too.