Random question for the boaters out there:
Are there any type of rules in place that dictate what types of boats can cross under the Main Street Bridge and at what times?
More specifically, why are relatively small, high-mast boats with five people aboard allowed to bring traffic into an out of the city to a screeching halt for 20 minutes during morning and afternoon rush hours so they can get under the Main Street bridge?
Does the poor timing of the boater really necessitate making thousands of people late for work?
This morning, I hit the Main Street Bridge right as the gate was lowering to raise the bridge. Thought I'd avoid it by u-turning, taking the Acosta Bridge, and entering downtown via Water Street. My plan was foiled when I couldn't get into my parking garage because Main Street was backed up a mile because of said high-masted boat.
Typically, there are certain hours where boating traffic is advised that the Main Street Bridge will not open more than twice an hour. But the bridge operator still has discretion of when to/when not to open.
To amend that opening schedule requires an act by the Coast Guard, and is a pretty lengthy process.
Your best point of contact for questions, concerns, etc would be Jim Suber... jsuber@coj.net
Jim is a great guy.
Thanks Mike!
Good info!
Great question Ken... I have muttered that very question myself more than once... >:(
Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 01, 2018, 12:33:43 PM
Great question Ken... I have muttered that very question myself more than once... >:(
Ironic, for a gentleman who uses the handle
BridgeTroll.
:D :D :D
I have another Main Street Bridge question, myself. Why is it seeming always closed, or reduced to two lanes? If we closed it for 6 months one time and fixed the dang thing, could we avoid some of this ongoing nonsense? I have to think visitors being able to predictably get into and out of downtown would have a positive impact on long-term development.
Quote from: KenFSU on November 01, 2018, 12:45:00 PM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 01, 2018, 12:33:43 PM
Great question Ken... I have muttered that very question myself more than once... >:(
Ironic, for a gentleman who uses the handle BridgeTroll.
:D :D :D
Lol... that actually refers to an old watering hole downtown...The infamous London Bridge... 8)
Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 01, 2018, 12:50:18 PM
Quote from: KenFSU on November 01, 2018, 12:45:00 PM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on November 01, 2018, 12:33:43 PM
Great question Ken... I have muttered that very question myself more than once... >:(
Ironic, for a gentleman who uses the handle BridgeTroll.
:D :D :D
SUCH a great place!
Lol... that actually refers to an old watering hole downtown...The infamous London Bridge... 8)
Quote§ 117.325 St. Johns River.
(a) The drawspan for the Main Street (1/SR 90) drawbridge, mile 24.7, at Jacksonville, must open on signal except that, from 7 a.m. to 8:30 a.m. and from 4:30 p.m. to 6 p.m., Monday through Saturday except Federal holidays, the drawspan need not be opened for the passage of vessels.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/33/117.325 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/33/117.325)
Somebody with more legal expertise than me may want to look into this, but I believe this is saying the bridge should not be open during rush hour.
Quote from: JBTripper on November 01, 2018, 12:47:14 PM
I have another Main Street Bridge question, myself. Why is it seeming always closed, or reduced to two lanes? If we closed it for 6 months one time and fixed the dang thing, could we avoid some of this ongoing nonsense? I have to think visitors being able to predictably get into and out of downtown would have a positive impact on long-term development.
Walked across the Main Street Bridge about 4AM this morning and the north bound lanes were down to one - with narry a construction worker in sight....so good question.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on November 01, 2018, 01:18:37 PM
Quote§ 117.325 St. Johns River.
(a) The drawspan for the Main Street (1/SR 90) drawbridge, mile 24.7, at Jacksonville, must open on signal except that, from 7 a.m. to 8:30 a.m. and from 4:30 p.m. to 6 p.m., Monday through Saturday except Federal holidays, the drawspan need not be opened for the passage of vessels.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/33/117.325 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/33/117.325)
Somebody with more legal expertise than me may want to look into this, but I believe this is saying the bridge should not be open during rush hour.
The language is such that during those times the bridge tender has discretion.
Lol, an opening doesn't take 20 minutes. For all the motorist knows though the bridge tender could have had that vessel on standby for quite some time before the bridge opens.
Quote from: acme54321 on November 01, 2018, 02:30:53 PM
Lol, an opening doesn't take 20 minutes. For all the motorist knows though the bridge tender could have had that vessel on standby for quite some time before the bridge opens.
[/quoteQuote from: acme54321 on November 01, 2018, 02:30:53 PM
Lol, an opening doesn't take 20 minutes. For all the motorist knows though the bridge tender could have had that vessel on standby for quite some time before the bridge opens.
It certainly can. The mechanical process of lowering the traffic barriers, raising the bridge, lowering the bridge and raising the barriers may not take 20 minutes... but I have certainly seen the yahoo driving the boat take his merry time going through...
Bottom line is most of the boats are recreational... they can wait for rush hour to be over.
I also think if the vessel captain declares an emergency, by blowing their horn in a certain pattern, the tender has to open the bridge. Whether there is any follow-up to determine in there really was an emergency.
Even when the hours are followed, a boat requesting a raising at 6:57 AM will keep the bridge closed to 7:15 or so; then the time for traffic to disperse adds to the time in congestion.
Quote from: acme54321 on November 01, 2018, 02:30:53 PM
Lol, an opening doesn't take 20 minutes. For all the motorist knows though the bridge tender could have had that vessel on standby for quite some time before the bridge opens.
I have definitely waited over 20 minutes.
Quote from: Kerry on November 01, 2018, 01:20:13 PM
Quote from: JBTripper on November 01, 2018, 12:47:14 PM
I have another Main Street Bridge question, myself. Why is it seeming always closed, or reduced to two lanes? If we closed it for 6 months one time and fixed the dang thing, could we avoid some of this ongoing nonsense? I have to think visitors being able to predictably get into and out of downtown would have a positive impact on long-term development.
Walked across the Main Street Bridge about 4AM this morning and the north bound lanes were down to one - with narry a construction worker in sight....so good question.
They are replacing the concrete barrier at the north end of the bridge on Ocean Street - they set forms the other day and poured concrete last night
Anyone have any idea why the Main Street Bridge was closed during rush hour this morning?
Traffic backed up for a mile, no warnings, just one solitary police officer forcing three lanes of traffic to u-turn and merge into a single lane off the bridge.
Quote from: KenFSU on November 16, 2018, 10:03:00 AM
Anyone have any idea why the Main Street Bridge was closed during rush hour this morning?
Traffic backed up for a mile, no warnings, just one solitary police officer forcing three lanes of traffic to u-turn and merge into a single lane off the bridge.
(https://i.imgur.com/Q2BOfma.jpg)
Quote from: Adam White on November 16, 2018, 10:12:22 AM
Quote from: KenFSU on November 16, 2018, 10:03:00 AM
Anyone have any idea why the Main Street Bridge was closed during rush hour this morning?
Traffic backed up for a mile, no warnings, just one solitary police officer forcing three lanes of traffic to u-turn and merge into a single lane off the bridge.
(https://i.imgur.com/Q2BOfma.jpg)
Well played, Adam :D
Thanks. I'm here all week!
P.S. Florida 511 says it's maintenance.
Weird time for maintenance.
(https://snag.gy/1DGiKx.jpg)
I got stuck in it too. It's ridiculous. I expect in the near future we'll see a serious closure.
So, from the sounds of it, here's what happened:
1) They opened the bridge up at around 5:00 AM this morning for a boat, and when the bridge went back down, they couldn't get the crossing arms to go back up. The bridge was closed for over an hour while they fixed the problem.
2) Around 8:45 AM, they opened the bridge again, during rush hour traffic, to let a boat through. The arms got stuck again, and they re-closed the bridge to work on the arms.
Easy solution: Don't open the bridge during rush hour unless it's a military or police emergency.
As somebody else posted earlier, there's already legalese in place to prevent its opening. Not sure if that constitutes a complaint to a regulatory board or not, reckon we'd need some documentation to really build a case. Doesn't bother me too much, there's two other bridges across the river that never open, and I love the Main Street bridge, I think it's iconic and a cool historical landmark. I do understand y'all's complaints, though.
Just imagine what it was like when the Acosta was a draw and was the ONLY crossing in Jax!
Quote from: jax_hwy_engineer on November 16, 2018, 12:58:03 PM
As somebody else posted earlier, there's already legalese in place to prevent its opening. Not sure if that constitutes a complaint to a regulatory board or not, reckon we'd need some documentation to really build a case. Doesn't bother me too much, there's two other bridges across the river that never open, and I love the Main Street bridge, I think it's iconic and a cool historical landmark. I do understand y'all's complaints, though.
Just imagine what it was like when the Acosta was a draw and was the ONLY crossing in Jax!
Don't get me wrong, love the bridge, it's one of our coolest assets, never want to see it go away or be replaced with a higher-span.
I just can't fathom what type of entitled seaman fancies himself important enough to necessitate bringing traffic into and out of the central business district to a screeching halt for 10-20 minutes during rush hour.
That seaman is no friend of mine.
Quote from: KenFSU on November 16, 2018, 01:59:00 PM
Quote from: jax_hwy_engineer on November 16, 2018, 12:58:03 PM
As somebody else posted earlier, there's already legalese in place to prevent its opening. Not sure if that constitutes a complaint to a regulatory board or not, reckon we'd need some documentation to really build a case. Doesn't bother me too much, there's two other bridges across the river that never open, and I love the Main Street bridge, I think it's iconic and a cool historical landmark. I do understand y'all's complaints, though.
Just imagine what it was like when the Acosta was a draw and was the ONLY crossing in Jax!
Don't get me wrong, love the bridge, it's one of our coolest assets, never want to see it go away or be replaced with a higher-span.
I just can't fathom what type of entitled seaman fancies himself important enough to necessitate bringing traffic into and out of the central business district to a screeching halt for 10-20 minutes during rush hour.
That seaman is no friend of mine.
And that's the crux of the issue. They were first. What type of roadbuilding fancies themselves so entitled as to block the boats? That's why the bridge has to lift.
What would be nice is a warning system on the I-95 ramp split at Main St/Acosta bridge to warn drivers the bridge is about to go up or is currently up. Then they could just take the Acosta.
In St. Augustine, the Bridge of Lions can open up for boats every half hour from 7 a.m. to 6 p.m. daily, except at 8 a.m., noon and 5 p.m. on the weekdays. There was talk of changing the schedule with the Coast Guard's approval, but I have no idea what happened to that.
I think only people that live in Davis Shores actually know this schedule because locals still complain when ever the bridge goes up. There is also signs with flashing yellow lights on US1, A1A, and May St. that warn you when the bridge is up. Basically, just look at the time and plan accordingly and its usually fine.
Quote from: Kerry on January 29, 2019, 04:32:56 PM
What would be nice is a warning system on the I-95 ramp split at Main St/Acosta bridge to warn drivers the bridge is about to go up or is currently up. Then they could just take the Acosta.
that would require FDOT to figure out how to use the variable message signs. More often than not, they are wrong!
Quote from: Kerry on January 29, 2019, 04:32:56 PM
What would be nice is a warning system on the I-95 ramp split at Main St/Acosta bridge to warn drivers the bridge is about to go up or is currently up. Then they could just take the Acosta.
Keep an eye on the orange-lettered Dynamic Messaging Signs on I-95; I saw one yesterday with a message that the Main St. Bridge was lifted for river traffic. The sign was the one nearest the exit for Atlantic/Acosta/Main St Bridge. Sounds like your suggestion is already in place!