Full editorial from the Business Journal below, but give it at a read at the source link below if you can.
https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2018/09/30/editorial-we-must-not-dawdle-if-we-want-a.html
QuoteWe must not dawdle if we want a riverfront miracle mile
The final quarter of 2018 could be a pivotal moment for the future of Jacksonville.
In coming days, city leaders will make decisions on a number of potential projects that could, in aggregate, reshape downtown and put the city on a new upward trajectory.
Among the issues confronting the mayor's office and the City Council:
- Do we want to commit to having a convention center, and if so, where?
- Is the proposed plan for the site of the Berkman II project the best use of that property?
- What should be the future of the Jacksonville Landing if Bay Street does become the site of massive development?
- If the Berkman II project is done, what is the future of Shad Khan's idea for the Shipyards -- and what does that mean for the city's relationship with the Jaguars?
It is vital that these and other questions are answered comprehensively -- and quickly.
Jacksonville has failed in two different ways with major public projects in the past: Either inadequate planning is done or city leaders got so caught up in studies and meetings that the moment of action passes us by.
That can't happen this time.
It is imperative that we seize this opportunity. It is also important that we don't rush into making a decision and end up with the downtown equivalent of Project Vogtle.
That means that now is the time for a public conversation about priorities and the path forward.
It is disheartening, for example, to see general confusion over the issue of how the site of a convention center will be picked.
It is all too easy to imagine a circling debate over which billion-dollar project would be best for the city that leads to us having neither of them.
And, of course, all of this will come with a hefty public price tag, and there should be a public discussion around that.
(Our position: While it is necessary to invest in other parts of town, these projects will have such an impact on our economy that the return on investment should make them a priority. The city's strategy of mainly using tax rebates rather than cash handouts as incentives helps with this argument: While there is a notional cost to the city in not bringing in as much money, rebates don't drain the general fund.)
We also shouldn't fool ourselves that these steps are enough: To have a fully functioning downtown will require more than a convention center and resort hotel.
Hemming Park development still needs our support. The Landing question must be answered. A day center for transients must be built.
The time for those conversations is now. The time for those decisions to be made is soon.
Jacksonville could be transformed, and city leaders must act both deliberately and with haste.
To add another layer to this, dreaming of a riverfront mile is all nice and dandy but the reality is most of these things are at least a decade away.....assuming they materialize after the next recession is over. In the meantime, we have a plus century old core to the west with a slew of active projects already underway. Just as important to the isolated riverfront focus is what is the vision for the actual historic heart of the city and what role should these dreams on the peripheral play? Btw, I believe there was an article in one of the papers last week about a day center coming soon.
QuoteJacksonville could be transformed, and city leaders must act both deliberately and with haste.
I get the distinct feeling that the writer does not live in Jacksonville and hasn't for many years. The only way these decisions will be made with haste, is if they involve tearing buildings down.
Whatever they do, plan around more storms like Irma. You don't want your shiny new nickel in Downtown to be flooded every other year...
The new "day center" will be at the Sulzbacher Center. Basically, a place for the public to wash laundry and take showers, possibly access other basic services.
This will be the 2nd day center open to the public, as there's already one at Quest, not even half a block from Sulzbacher. The services should compliment each other.
Quest currently offers case management, housing screenings, phone use, mail box services, public restrooms, water, air conditioning, movies, small clothing closet and a place to hangout M-F, 8am to 4pm. It's rarely full.
Vets have their own day center as well, at Clara White and the new adjacent VA office.
Note that the whole paradigm of having the city's politicians - they rarely behave like leaders - mucking around with this stuff is largely how the problems came about in the first place. Their behaviors and decisions, the ones that generated things like The Landing, 3/4th of downtown abandoned or vacant, Unity Plaza, empty parking ramps that the city has to pay private companies for, etc. They all produced that sort of stuff.
One has to be a special kind of a dunderhead to see all that and concluded "HOLY CRAP! THEY BETTER HURRY UP AND DO MORE OF THAT OR WE'RE DOOMED!"
Quote from: Bill Hoff on October 02, 2018, 01:55:06 AM
This will be the 2nd day center open to the public, as there's already one at Quest, not even half a block from Sulzbacher.
Good news - Quest/MHRC will actually be moving into the Sulzbacher Center, creating a true one stop shop day center. So, less duplication of services in the same small area. Good to see.
Well crud - dwadle is what Jax does best. Just came back from my honeymoon in a nearby state and the new wife asked, "How come downtown Jax can't be like this." As I pulled out my list of reasons she told me it was a rhetoric question.
Congrats on the wedding. Where did you go?
'Miracle Mile' has officially joined 'gamechanger' on the list of terms I would no longer like to hear when talking about urban development in Jax.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 16, 2018, 10:31:39 PM
Congrats on the wedding. Where did you go?
Let me guess, Oklahoma City? ;D
Seriously though, congrats, Kelly!
Quote from: Tacachale on October 17, 2018, 11:33:39 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on October 16, 2018, 10:31:39 PM
Congrats on the wedding. Where did you go?
Let me guess, Oklahoma City? ;D
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/5198aac8f04c105379617199e0b9665b/tenor.gif?itemid=4295060)
We went to Great Smoky Mountains National Park for 7 days. Rented a cabin.
Wonderful. I hope you two enjoyed your honeymoon. Given that location, I'd guess the downtown in question is Gatlinburg, Ashveille or Knoxville. The first two as thanks to geography - squeezed into a small space because of mountains - combined with an uncommonly huge concentration of tourism.
Downtown Knoxville is wonderful for a city it's size. But outside of Market Square it's nothing to aspire to. And Market Square has the vitality is has because of all the free parking the city has subsidized.
Quote from: sanmarcomatt on October 18, 2018, 10:36:34 PM
Quote from: Kerry on October 18, 2018, 09:43:03 PM
We went to Great Smoky Mountains National Park for 7 days. Rented a cabin.
So the new wife wants Downtown Jax to be like a cabin in the woods? Do you have any pictures for a "learning from" article?
We took the back roads to Gatlinburg - 3 days and no interstates (well we did take I-75 from Macon to Atlanta). This trip really opened her eyes to how lackluster Jax is.
What really hit home though is having my family from Oklahoma City come. They stayed at the Omni downtown so we showed them around downtown. Their first question - where is everyone? Took them for a walk on the Southbank and had to explain the fountain used to be taller and lit up - but it's broken. The Acosta bridge used to be lit in neon purple - but it is broken. The Riverwalk used to illuminated with neon light reflect on the white umbrellas - but they are broken. The sculpture outside The Strand used to be illuminated in a cool blue light - but its broken. They wanted to ride the skyway - but it doesn't operate on the weekends. They wanted to buy some touristy stuff at The Landing - but the stores were closed. They noticed all the damage on the Northbank Riverwalk and I had to explain that it was damaged by the hurricane - over a year ago.
You know how much it sucks having to apologize for how crappy your city is? On the plus side though, I did tell them we have swimming pools in the stadium that are operational. Their response, who goes to a football game to swim? My answer - the team sucks. No one would go if the game was the only attraction.
So I'll just keep taking my wife to cool places until she has seen enough. Next month - Indianapolis, Cincinnati, and Louisville.
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2018, 01:03:15 AM
Quote from: sanmarcomatt on October 18, 2018, 10:36:34 PM
Quote from: Kerry on October 18, 2018, 09:43:03 PM
We went to Great Smoky Mountains National Park for 7 days. Rented a cabin.
So the new wife wants Downtown Jax to be like a cabin in the woods? Do you have any pictures for a "learning from" article?
We took the back roads to Gatlinburg - 3 days and no interstates (well we did take I-75 from Macon to Atlanta). This trip really opened her eyes to how lackluster Jax is.
What really hit home though is having my family from Oklahoma City come. They stayed at the Omni downtown so we showed them around downtown. Their first question - where is everyone? Took them for a walk on the Southbank and had to explain the fountain used to be taller and lit up - but it's broken. The Acosta bridge used to be lit in neon purple - but it is broken. The Riverwalk used to illuminated with neon light reflect on the white umbrellas - but they are broken. The sculpture outside The Strand used to be illuminated in a cool blue light - but its broken. They wanted to ride the skyway - but it doesn't operate on the weekends. They wanted to buy some touristy stuff at The Landing - but the stores were closed. They noticed all the damage on the Northbank Riverwalk and I had to explain that it was damaged by the hurricane - over a year ago.
You know how much it sucks having to apologize for how crappy your city is? On the plus side though, I did tell them we have swimming pools in the stadium that are operational. Their response, who goes to a football game to swim? My answer - the team sucks. No one would go if the game was the only attraction.
So I'll just keep taking my wife to cool places until she has seen enough. Next month - Indianapolis, Cincinnati, and Louisville.
There a lot of things that Jacksonville isn't... and many more things that Jacksonville is.
Feel bad for your family. Two weekends ago I took some out of town guests for a walk along the Riverwalk. They were absolutely amazed to saw dolphins and manatees just a few feet away, they took in the Riverside Arts Market and Memorial Park, enjoyed a fine adult beverage with great conversation about Jacksonville at Intuition Ale Works and later enjoyed a great dinner in San Marco Square. They left raving about Jacksonville, and will be back in a few weeks to go to a Jags game (and they aren't interested in swimming in the pools).
Having travelled to Oklahoma City, Indianapolis, Cincinnati and Louisville several times... and having lived in Atlanta (only one of those five cities would I ever chose to live in)... Jacksonville is what you make of it. If you want to sit around and complain about how bad it is, and cook up conspiracy theories about Shad Khan... then I guess it would suck pretty horribly.
Feel free to give me a ring the next time you are hosting visitors. Always happy to show guests a great time in a city that I am proud to call home.
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2018, 01:03:15 AM
Quote from: sanmarcomatt on October 18, 2018, 10:36:34 PM
Quote from: Kerry on October 18, 2018, 09:43:03 PM
We went to Great Smoky Mountains National Park for 7 days. Rented a cabin.
So the new wife wants Downtown Jax to be like a cabin in the woods? Do you have any pictures for a "learning from" article?
We took the back roads to Gatlinburg - 3 days and no interstates (well we did take I-75 from Macon to Atlanta). This trip really opened her eyes to how lackluster Jax is.
What really hit home though is having my family from Oklahoma City come. They stayed at the Omni downtown so we showed them around downtown. Their first question - where is everyone? Took them for a walk on the Southbank and had to explain the fountain used to be taller and lit up - but it's broken. The Acosta bridge used to be lit in neon purple - but it is broken. The Riverwalk used to illuminated with neon light reflect on the white umbrellas - but they are broken. The sculpture outside The Strand used to be illuminated in a cool blue light - but its broken. They wanted to ride the skyway - but it doesn't operate on the weekends. They wanted to buy some touristy stuff at The Landing - but the stores were closed. They noticed all the damage on the Northbank Riverwalk and I had to explain that it was damaged by the hurricane - over a year ago.
You know how much it sucks having to apologize for how crappy your city is? On the plus side though, I did tell them we have swimming pools in the stadium that are operational. Their response, who goes to a football game to swim? My answer - the team sucks. No one would go if the game was the only attraction.
So I'll just keep taking my wife to cool places until she has seen enough. Next month - Indianapolis, Cincinnati, and Louisville.
I really hate New York:
- It smells in parts
- It's expensive
- People sometimes aren't nice
- I can't park right in front of my building
- I can't find a house with a big backyard in Manhattan
- Some people in Harlem can be mean
- The Subway is loud
Man, what a crappy place New York is. I'm never going back.
It's all what you make of it. I travel extensively and you can find the good, bad and ugly in all cities. Of the ones mentioned, I'd prefer Cincinnati the most but it wouldn't make my top 50 for me to live in. OKC and Louisville wouldn't crack my top 75 to 100 even though they have some great things going for them in some areas that Jax could benefit from by paying attention. Nevertheless Kerry, let me be your family's tour guide. Within the first hour, I'll have you and them speaking a different language. However, Jax is too easy. I think I could impress them enough to invest in waterfront urban living in Valdosta.
That is the exact response I was expecting and is the reason Jax is moving in slow motion. We have a population with such a low bar for expectations that the City can just dawdle along - so it does. Hey - when you were at Memorial Park did you show your family the metal railing that has been there for over year because the City can't seem to restore the decorative railing. I haven't been over to the San Marco side in a while - is it still fenced off.
I want to like Jax but it is really a frustrating process. It's like a marriage where one spouse wants to be cosmopolitan and sophisticated and the other just wants to sit on the couch in the single wide trailer and drink beer.
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2018, 09:59:11 AM
That is the exact response I was expecting and is the reason Jax is moving in slow motion. We have a population with such a low bar for expectations that the City can just dawdle along - so it does. Hey - when you were at Memorial Park did you show your family the metal railing that has been there for over year because the City can't seem to restore the decorative railing. I haven't been over to the San Marco side in a while - is it still fenced off.
I want to like Jax but it is really a frustrating process. It's like a marriage where one spouse wants to be cosmopolitan and sophisticated and the other just wants to sit on the couch in the single wide trailer and drink beer.
First hour would be easy. What are you going to show them the second hour? Jax runs out of stuff real fast. Going to impress them with our museums? How about our cultural attractions? Going to show them our outstanding urban retail? What about our riverfront? Jax is what you make it - and some of you are flat out making it up. This City needs to get its act together.
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2018, 09:59:11 AM
That is the exact response I was expecting and is the reason Jax is moving in slow motion. We have a population with such a low bar for expectations that the City can just dawdle along - so it does. Hey - when you were at Memorial Park did you show your family the metal railing that has been there for over year because the City can't seem to restore the decorative railing. I haven't been over to the San Marco side in a while - is it still fenced off.
I want to like Jax but it is really a frustrating process. It's like a marriage where one spouse wants to be cosmopolitan and sophisticated and the other just wants to sit on the couch in the single wide trailer and drink beer.
We can agree to disagree then. Just because I don't live my life in constant negativitity doesn't mean I'm willing to accept Jacksonville's shortfalls. I can just see positives that apparently you can't.
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2018, 10:05:51 AM
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2018, 09:59:11 AM
That is the exact response I was expecting and is the reason Jax is moving in slow motion. We have a population with such a low bar for expectations that the City can just dawdle along - so it does. Hey - when you were at Memorial Park did you show your family the metal railing that has been there for over year because the City can't seem to restore the decorative railing. I haven't been over to the San Marco side in a while - is it still fenced off.
I want to like Jax but it is really a frustrating process. It's like a marriage where one spouse wants to be cosmopolitan and sophisticated and the other just wants to sit on the couch in the single wide trailer and drink beer.
First hour would be easy. What are you going to show them the second hour? Jax runs out of stuff real fast. Going to impress them with our museums? How about our cultural attractions? Going to show them our outstanding urban retail? What about our riverfront? Jax is what you make it - and some of you are flat out making it up. This City needs to get its act together.
Earlier you asked, "You know how much it sucks having to apologize for how crappy your city is?" Many of the people you're addressing that to have lived here a lot longer than you. Those who have are well familiar with the inferiority complex that has long been one of the worst things about living here, and one of the primary things that holds the city back.
There are a lot of problems here, but there's a lot of great things going on as well. When you focus entirely on pointing out every flaw, you don't give yourself time to see the things that are working.
What Jacksonville shortfalls?
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2018, 09:59:11 AMI want to like Jax but it is really a frustrating process. It's like a marriage where one spouse wants to be cosmopolitan and sophisticated and the other just wants to sit on the couch in the single wide trailer and drink beer.
From my experience if someone is seeking cosmopolitan, OKC, Louisville, Cincinnati, etc. and even Jax are all cow towns and no amount of urban infill in our lifetime is going to happen fast enough to make them cosmopolitan. IMO, there aren't too many cosmopolitan cities in the US. NYC, Chicago, LA, SF, Philly, Boston, DC, Miami and perhaps Houston or Atlanta. Once you get past those places, things drop off the map pretty quick.
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2018, 10:05:51 AM
First hour would be easy. What are you going to show them the second hour? Jax runs out of stuff real fast. Going to impress them with our museums? How about our cultural attractions? Going to show them our outstanding urban retail? What about our riverfront? Jax is what you make it - and some of you are flat out making it up. This City needs to get its act together.
To be honest, I could kill a half day at a place like Kingsley Plantation, tied together with a fresh seafood lunch in Mayport or one of the fish camps off Heckscher alone. If someone is into industry, I could blow away a few hours touring a place like AB's brewery. Shopping isn't my thing, but San Marco Square and St. Johns Avenue classify as pedestrian friendly urban retail strips. However, I prefer the raw setting of the farmer's market on Beaver....especially if the showcasing is going to take place on a Saturday. It's one of the few areas in the region where you can experience multiple cultures and languages at once. The Zoo is also one of the best I've come across in the country. I haven't even gotten around to the beach and some of the parks. If you know the sites and things that are truly authentic to this area, you won't run out of things to do.
I know all about a City's inferiority complex - I used to live in Oklahoma City. Do you know what fixes that? Success. This group is supposed to be a collection of civic-minded people working collectively and as an individuals to help Jax reach its potential. We are the team - to borrow a football analogy - this the half time locker room, the practice field, the film room, analyzing what's working, what isn't, studying what the competition is doing, looking for players to draft it trade..... But many of you just want to be cheerleaders. Maybe I'm in the wrong group.
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2018, 10:58:48 AM
I know all about a City's inferiority complex - I used to live in Oklahoma City. Do you know what fixes that? Success. This group is supposed to be a collection of civic-minded people working collectively and as an individuals to help Jax reach its potential. We are the team - to borrow a football analogy - this is the half time locker room, the practice field, the film room, analyzing what's working, what isn't, studying what the competition is doing, looking for players to draft ior trade..... But many of you just want to be cheerleaders. Maybe I'm in the wrong group.
Lol, you can't be calling me a cheerleader if you've spent any time reading the articles posted here over the years. I'm more of a realist. I'll give you the good, bad and ugly of Jax and anywhere else. However, even when I dish out the criticism, it's normally followed up with recommendations on how the implementation of little things most ignore, can lead to great improvement in these specific identified areas.
I'm all about offering ideas to make Jax better. Hell, I have a whole list of them. So does everyone else. What we lack is follow-thru, instead we dwadel.
Some battles you win, some you don't. I remember a year ago, you spoke about DT needing hotels and gave a showcase on what OKC was doing. Now, in the last few months a slew of hotel proposals have popped up and at least three of them are already moving forward in the permitting process. However, anytime someone is building something, give it a few years before the results of that decision plays out in reality. Nevertheless....progress.
In other cases, you can recommend, but instead of crying when no one listens, you'll have take charge and do it yourself. In 2012, we did this with the launch of Jax Truckies because we wanted to demonstrate that one could activate dead spaces with food trucks, show if trucks were successful that some would morph into brick and mortar and that they'd fill vacant storefronts all over the urban core and create jobs without public incentives. There were roadblocks thrown up but instead of doing nothing, we found ways around them. Since that time, legislation has been passed to guide the industry, several trucks have grown into brick and mortars in DT and a variety of neighborhoods surrounding it and over 1200 local job have been created without the need of public incentives.
Long story short, revitalization takes time and sometimes you'll have to implement your own ideas instead of waiting for others to do them.
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2018, 09:59:11 AM
Hey - when you were at Memorial Park did you show your family the metal railing that has been there for over year because the City can't seem to restore the decorative railing. I haven't been over to the San Marco side in a while - is it still fenced off.
The "san marco side" is finished and it's much nicer than it was before the storm. I know a lot of private businesses and individuals have been putting off work until after this hurricane season because it doesn't make much since to finish an improvement or rehab only to have it blown out again by another storm. Perhaps the city feels the same way.
Also, the fact that you think people here aren't following through shows just how ignorant you are. People on this forum have spent thousands of hours improving this city and have created some of the most positive things in the core.
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2018, 09:59:11 AM
Hey - when you were at Memorial Park did you show your family the metal railing that has been there for over year because the City can't seem to restore the decorative railing.
Yes, in fact. I explained that there was this hurricane that swept through the city last year. The same hurricane that flooded several houses on my street... two of those houses are still being rehabbed at this very second. We have property that was affected by the hurricane, and have only just been able to get a contractor to repair damage to part of that property (we could not do the particular restoration work during hurricane season). Unfortunately, life happens... and people not only understand, but empathize with those issues.
Few years ago I was in Louisville and a part of the parkspace along the river was barricaded off because of what looked to be a portion of the seawall failing (looked awfully familiar to the bike racks and caution tape that can be seen in Memorial Park today). Additionally, the kiddie water park's water fountains weren't working. I just thought 'hmm, that's disappointing as I'm not in this city often... but you know, things break.' Good thing a Louisvillian wasn't next to me complaining about how the owner of Louisville City FC has some master conspiracy plan to move all bourbon production to England and that Louisville is only a good place for people that like to live in trailers, drinking mint juleps.
Come to think of it... Louisville must suck, because their riverfront parkspace is not as nice as Nashville's waterfront. Clearly, they accept mediocrity. I don't want that from my spouse. :)
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2018, 10:58:48 AM
But many of you just want to be cheerleaders. Maybe I'm in the wrong group.
Not sure who you're referring to, but here's my thought:
- Some cheerleaders aren't a bad thing. I know you hate the Jaguars but even the New England Patriots have Cheerleaders (and a mascot and some guys dresses as revolutionary war soldiers). Not everyone can or has the ability or time to be a player. If you couldn't tell, I'm not really talking about football here.
- Many people on this forum aren't just on this forum. I pale in comparison to many here, but I was very active with MJ for years, then backed off a bit when I joined the RAP board, which I served on for 6 years. You may know that the RAP board is hardly a board that meets once a month and that's it - there's a good amount of effort put in there. Now, I'm in a job that requires about 50% travel and have twin 14 month old babies at home. Forgive me if I'm not putting enough effort to achieve your lofty standard, sir.
Fact is this: I am proud of some things Jacksonville has to offer. I'm dissapointed with others. It is possible to celebrate the good things while still driving to improve the bad. They aren't mutually exclusive.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 24, 2018, 10:56:32 AM
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2018, 10:05:51 AM
First hour would be easy. What are you going to show them the second hour? Jax runs out of stuff real fast. Going to impress them with our museums? How about our cultural attractions? Going to show them our outstanding urban retail? What about our riverfront? Jax is what you make it - and some of you are flat out making it up. This City needs to get its act together.
To be honest, I could kill a half day at a place like Kingsley Plantation, tied together with a fresh seafood lunch in Mayport or one of the fish camps off Heckscher alone. If someone is into industry, I could blow away a few hours touring a place like AB's brewery. Shopping isn't my thing, but San Marco Square and St. Johns Avenue classify as pedestrian friendly urban retail strips. However, I prefer the raw setting of the farmer's market on Beaver....especially if the showcasing is going to take place on a Saturday. It's one of the few areas in the region where you can experience multiple cultures and languages at once. The Zoo is also one of the best I've come across in the country. I haven't even gotten around to the beach and some of the parks. If you know the sites and things that are truly authentic to this area, you won't run out of things to do.
Although the emphasis in this forum is DT, like said above you must consider all of Jax. Many mid size cities do not have vibrant DT. I could spend days at Fort George Island, Hugenot, Little Talbot Island, Big Talbot Island and Amelia Island/Fernandina Beach. Hiking, biking, kyaking, swimming, camping. And those enviroments(ocean, marsh, dunes, rivers, estuaries) cannot be found in OKC, Cinci, Indy, or the ATL.
Quote from: Steve on October 24, 2018, 12:36:34 PM
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2018, 10:58:48 AM
But many of you just want to be cheerleaders. Maybe I'm in the wrong group.
Not sure who you're referring to, but here's my thought:
- Some cheerleaders aren't a bad thing. I know you hate the Jaguars but even the New England Patriots have Cheerleaders (and a mascot and some guys dresses as revolutionary war soldiers). Not everyone can or has the ability or time to be a player. If you couldn't tell, I'm not really talking about football here.
- Many people on this forum aren't just on this forum. I pale in comparison to many here, but I was very active with MJ for years, then backed off a bit when I joined the RAP board, which I served on for 6 years. You may know that the RAP board is hardly a board that meets once a month and that's it - there's a good amount of effort put in there. Now, I'm in a job that requires about 50% travel and have twin 14 month old babies at home. Forgive me if I'm not putting enough effort to achieve your lofty standard, sir.
Fact is this: I am proud of some things Jacksonville has to offer. I'm dissapointed with others. It is possible to celebrate the good things while still driving to improve the bad. They aren't mutually exclusive.
The RAP Board is part of the problem as I see it. It has taken an entire part of the city and permanetly relegated it to a suspended state of urban evolution - but that is a whole other topic.
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2018, 01:57:59 PM
The RAP Board is part of the problem as I see it. It has taken an entire part of the city and permanetly relegated it to a suspended state of urban evolution - but that is a whole other topic.
You're ill-informed.
^There are things RAP can be reasonably criticized for, but it's true that it's a lot easier to sit here and kvetch than to get up and do something.
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2018, 01:57:59 PM
Quote from: Steve on October 24, 2018, 12:36:34 PM
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2018, 10:58:48 AM
But many of you just want to be cheerleaders. Maybe I'm in the wrong group.
Not sure who you're referring to, but here's my thought:
- Some cheerleaders aren't a bad thing. I know you hate the Jaguars but even the New England Patriots have Cheerleaders (and a mascot and some guys dresses as revolutionary war soldiers). Not everyone can or has the ability or time to be a player. If you couldn't tell, I'm not really talking about football here.
- Many people on this forum aren't just on this forum. I pale in comparison to many here, but I was very active with MJ for years, then backed off a bit when I joined the RAP board, which I served on for 6 years. You may know that the RAP board is hardly a board that meets once a month and that's it - there's a good amount of effort put in there. Now, I'm in a job that requires about 50% travel and have twin 14 month old babies at home. Forgive me if I'm not putting enough effort to achieve your lofty standard, sir.
Fact is this: I am proud of some things Jacksonville has to offer. I'm dissapointed with others. It is possible to celebrate the good things while still driving to improve the bad. They aren't mutually exclusive.
The RAP Board is part of the problem as I see it. It has taken an entire part of the city and permanetly relegated it to a suspended state of urban evolution - but that is a whole other topic.
Then you're REALLY ill informed. RAP isn't perfect (and I disagreed with some things that passed while I was on the board), but I'd be happy to discuss RAPs record at any point.
I seriously feel like if I handed you a winning Powerball ticket, you wouldn't want to cash it and instead would go on a diatribe about how boring I-10 is between here and Tallahassee.
I don't want to turn this thread into a RAP thread so I'll just leave my comment as-is and acknowledge that we will just have to disagree.
Quote from: Tacachale on October 24, 2018, 10:55:14 PM
^There are things RAP can be reasonably criticized for, but it's true that it's a lot easier to sit here and kvetch than to get up and do something.
I would be all in favor of forming a group that demanded some action from the City. Hell, we can meet at my Brooklyn apartment. Sitting around and doing nothing is the thing I hate the most - and the thing Jax is best at. I have a whole list of things the City could do unilaterally that would make big improvements - from practically free to radical change.
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2018, 11:40:58 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on October 24, 2018, 10:55:14 PM
^There are things RAP can be reasonably criticized for, but it's true that it's a lot easier to sit here and kvetch than to get up and do something.
I would be all in favor of forming a group that demanded some action from the City. Hell, we can meet at my Brooklyn apartment. Sitting around and doing nothing is the thing I hate the most - and the thing Jax is best at. I have a whole list of things the City could do unilaterally that would make big improvements - from practically free to radical change.
Kerry, what's frustrating about incessant negativity is that many of us are actually out there
Quote from: Tacachale on October 25, 2018, 01:05:34 AM
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2018, 11:40:58 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on October 24, 2018, 10:55:14 PM
^There are things RAP can be reasonably criticized for, but it's true that it's a lot easier to sit here and kvetch than to get up and do something.
I would be all in favor of forming a group that demanded some action from the City. Hell, we can meet at my Brooklyn apartment. Sitting around and doing nothing is the thing I hate the most - and the thing Jax is best at. I have a whole list of things the City could do unilaterally that would make big improvements - from practically free to radical change.
Kerry, what's frustrating about incessant negativity is that many of us are actually out there
Can you give me an example of something you are trying to change/improve about urban Jax?
I'll give you an example I would like to see done - a bike sharing program. I travel to cities all over the country and darn near every one of them has a bike share and there are 2 rouge scooter share companies that just randomly drop their scooters around cities. Not only can we not get a legal bike share system we can't even get the law-flaunting scooter companies to drop their illegal scooters here.
https://www.google.com/search?q=scooters+dropped+downtown&gws_rd=ssl
When you've tried to establish your own rouge system here or contacted these companies to come to town, what's been their response? If there was something stopping them, what do you think the potential solution around that obstacle might be?
Quote from: fieldafm on October 17, 2018, 09:29:39 AM
'Miracle Mile' has officially joined 'gamechanger' on the list of terms I would no longer like to hear when talking about urban development in Jax.
While it may take a miracle to pull downtown Jacksonville from the abyss, I do tend to agree that Miracle Mile sounds hackneyed.
Quote from: Kerry on October 18, 2018, 09:43:03 PM
We went to Great Smoky Mountains National Park for 7 days. Rented a cabin.
After 14 years in Manhattan, and because of my love for the Carolina Mountains, I'll be relocating to another office of my Firm in Charlotte effective November 1, and just a couple hours away from some of highest peaks east of the Mississippi. Anyone know much about downtown Charlotte? I still have family in Jax and will visit often, but not quite ready to slow down as much as Jax at this time.
Congrats on the move. Here's two photo heavy articles I made from my last visit to Charlotte in 2016/2017:
https://www.moderncities.com/article/2016-oct-charlotte-an-emerging-walkable-modern-day-megalopolis
https://www.moderncities.com/article/2017-jan-charlottes-lynx-light-rail-ten-years-later
Quote from: thelakelander on October 25, 2018, 08:37:37 AM
Congrats on the move. Here's two photo heavy articles I made from my last visit to Charlotte in 2016/2017:
https://www.moderncities.com/article/2016-oct-charlotte-an-emerging-walkable-modern-day-megalopolis
https://www.moderncities.com/article/2017-jan-charlottes-lynx-light-rail-ten-years-later
Thank you much!
Quote from: thelakelander on October 25, 2018, 06:05:44 AM
When you've tried to establish your own rouge system here or contacted these companies to come to town, what's been their response? If there was something stopping them, what do you think the potential solution around that obstacle might be?
Are you suggesting that unless I'm going to do it myself I can't complain about not having it, or did I read that wrong?
No. I was responding to this quote:
Quote from: Kerry on October 25, 2018, 03:09:48 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on October 25, 2018, 01:05:34 AM
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2018, 11:40:58 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on October 24, 2018, 10:55:14 PM
^There are things RAP can be reasonably criticized for, but it's true that it's a lot easier to sit here and kvetch than to get up and do something.
I would be all in favor of forming a group that demanded some action from the City. Hell, we can meet at my Brooklyn apartment. Sitting around and doing nothing is the thing I hate the most - and the thing Jax is best at. I have a whole list of things the City could do unilaterally that would make big improvements - from practically free to radical change.
Kerry, what's frustrating about incessant negativity is that many of us are actually out there
Can you give me an example of something you are trying to change/improve about urban Jax?
I'll give you an example I would like to see done - a bike sharing program. I travel to cities all over the country and darn near every one of them has a bike share and there are 2 rouge scooter share companies that just randomly drop their scooters around cities. Not only can we not get a legal bike share system we can't even get the law-flaunting scooter companies to drop their illegal scooters here.
https://www.google.com/search?q=scooters+dropped+downtown&gws_rd=ssl
Oh, so you were just complaining about not having one?
I'm sorry, I read the question and response as if you were in the process of working to change or improve the urban core by trying to establish a bike share system locally. Under that assumption, I was asking what was the response you've gotten either as someone trying to open the business yourself or recruiting an existing business to do so? Assuming there was some obstacle at play, I was hoping to hear what it was in order to help you navigate around that obstacle.
I totally get were Kerry is coming from, but as far as RAP is concerned, THAT is one (of many) problems that DT has. There is no RAP like organization that is focused on DT yet is independent of the city administration.
RAP, love them or hate them, get RESULTS because THEY are the squeaky wheel. Perhaps that is what the forum members here can start to provide. I have literally advocated that here for years.
Let's face facts JAX is indeed, decades behind comparable cities in regards to urban vitality. You can have all the grassroots effort you want but if it does not move the REAL powerbrokers, it doesn't change much. By real powerbrokers, I mean the Mayor and council.
The type organization I described above would not be necessary if the city itself 'got it', but we all know that has been lacking here, and there is no continuity between administration either.
But isn't RAP and example of a grassroots effort itself?
Quote from: Kerry on October 25, 2018, 09:46:05 AM
Are you suggesting that unless I'm going to do it myself I can't complain about not having it, or did I read that wrong?
Oh, so totally cool to come on here ranting about how this board is full of cheerleaders who don't do anything (which is categorically incorrect)... but not cool when you are called out for not doing anything your own self?
Funny how that works :)
Quote from: Kerry on October 25, 2018, 03:09:48 AM
Can you give me an example of something you are trying to change/improve about urban Jax?
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2018, 11:40:58 PM
Sitting around and doing nothing is the thing I hate the most - and the thing Jax is best at.
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2018, 10:58:48 AM
This group is supposed to be a collection of civic-minded people working collectively and as an individuals to help Jax reach its potential. We are the team - to borrow a football analogy - this the half time locker room, the practice field, the film room, analyzing what's working, what isn't, studying what the competition is doing, looking for players to draft it trade..... But many of you just want to be cheerleaders. Maybe I'm in the wrong group.
Quote from: vicupstate on October 25, 2018, 10:27:38 AM
I totally get were Kerry is coming from, but as far as RAP is concerned, THAT is one (of many) problems that DT has. There is no RAP like organization that is focused on DT yet is independent of the city administration.
RAP, love them or hate them, get RESULTS because THEY are the squeaky wheel. Perhaps that is what the forum members here can start to provide. I have literally advocated that here for years.
PREACH. If you want to bring RAP into this, look at how they've gotten results.
Quote from: jaxnyc79 on October 25, 2018, 08:10:55 AM
Quote from: Kerry on October 18, 2018, 09:43:03 PM
We went to Great Smoky Mountains National Park for 7 days. Rented a cabin.
After 14 years in Manhattan, and because of my love for the Carolina Mountains, I'll be relocating to another office of my Firm in Charlotte effective November 1, and just a couple hours away from some of highest peaks east of the Mississippi. Anyone know much about downtown Charlotte? I still have family in Jax and will visit often, but not quite ready to slow down as much as Jax at this time.
Wow that's exciting, congrats! Will be a significant change but if you're ready for it should be nice. You might post on here to get specifics on downtown (or uptown?) living.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/charlotte/
There's definitely a disconnect here. I'm giving Kerry the benefit of the doubt and assuming what he's actually saying is that just cause he's specifically not doing something about X doesn't mean he can't complain about X, because he is busy working on Y & Z. That may not be the case, but that's the only way the attitude makes any sense to me.
Well - I guess I made the point I wanted to make so I really don't have much more to add. Since I don't plan to build an apartment building, hotel, convention center, rail transit system, implement a bike share system, two-way downtown streets, reconfigure the Hart Bridge ramps, or build a downtown marina I guess I have nothing left to talk about.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 25, 2018, 10:38:09 AM
But isn't RAP and example of a grassroots effort itself?
Yes, but at a higher, more organized level. A level at which it can't be ignored. I don't get the idea that anyone running for city council from that area ignores them, for example.
Quote from: vicupstate on October 25, 2018, 10:27:38 AM
I totally get were Kerry is coming from, but as far as RAP is concerned, THAT is one (of many) problems that DT has. There is no RAP like organization that is focused on DT yet is independent of the city administration.
RAP, love them or hate them, get RESULTS because THEY are the squeaky wheel. Perhaps that is what the forum members here can start to provide. I have literally advocated that here for years.
At one time, as part of my job, I worked with the various CPACs. In those days, RAP did not participate in the CPACs, despite their area* overlapping the Southwest and Northwest**, and maybe a bit of the Urban Core CPACs. The scuttlebutt was that RAP felt it had more influence working directly with the COJ, and not being filtered through CPACs that have members from large parts of the City, that might have conflicting interests. Of course, this wasn't an official position from RAP, but 'water cooler' conversation.
* - Strangely (to me) the RAP website does not have a map of the RAP area. The closest I could find was on the COJ website, for the Riverside Avondale Zoning Overlay.
** - I have long wondered why the Northwest CPAC dips into Riverside - perhaps it is time to redraw the boundaries.
Quote from: Kerry on October 25, 2018, 12:03:17 PM
Well - I guess I made the point I wanted to make so I really don't have much more to add. Since I don't plan to build an apartment building, hotel, convention center, rail transit system, implement a bike share system, two-way downtown streets, reconfigure the Hart Bridge ramps, or build a downtown marina I guess I have nothing left to talk about.
Bro.....you made the comment that many here are cheerleaders. You then made the point that since you can't do the things above you have nothing left to talk about. Sort of talking out of both sides of your mouth.
Here's my point - don't criticize others for being cheerleaders. Obviously everyone is welcome to their opinions and to do whatever they want. I'd just ask you to understand the view that just because people are excited about item A, doesn't mean they aren't pissed about item B or they don't recognize that item C is mediocre or sub-par.
Some responses:
- Virtually no one on here is simply a "cheerleader" in the sense that they're invariably positive and complacent. Pointing out that there are things that work here is not the same as being a booster; everyone who has weighed in here has also criticized things about life in Jax, many in this very thread.
- Being unfailingly negative is no more reasonable or realistic than being unfailingly positive. Cynicism =/= realism.
- Perhaps that's not how they were intended, but some comments appear to criticize folks for just sitting around and doing nothing. Just in this discussion alone, fieldafm, thelakelander and I run this site, Steve was a RAP board member, and Bill Hoff is on the SPAR board. Others here also have projects and advocacy to their name. Again, maybe how that's not how is was intended, but the comment feels really unfair.
- Of course you can criticize something without actively working on it. That's not the point - the point is that you appear to be criticizing others for doing too little while doing little yourself.
Quote from: Kerry on October 25, 2018, 03:09:48 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on October 25, 2018, 01:05:34 AM
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2018, 11:40:58 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on October 24, 2018, 10:55:14 PM
^There are things RAP can be reasonably criticized for, but it's true that it's a lot easier to sit here and kvetch than to get up and do something.
I would be all in favor of forming a group that demanded some action from the City. Hell, we can meet at my Brooklyn apartment. Sitting around and doing nothing is the thing I hate the most - and the thing Jax is best at. I have a whole list of things the City could do unilaterally that would make big improvements - from practically free to radical change.
Kerry, what's frustrating about incessant negativity is that many of us are actually out there
Can you give me an example of something you are trying to change/improve about urban Jax?
I'll give you an example I would like to see done - a bike sharing program. I travel to cities all over the country and darn near every one of them has a bike share and there are 2 rouge scooter share companies that just randomly drop their scooters around cities. Not only can we not get a legal bike share system we can't even get the law-flaunting scooter companies to drop their illegal scooters here.
https://www.google.com/search?q=scooters+dropped+downtown&gws_rd=ssl
I can give you an example of something we did this week. We hosted a talk with WJCT where over a hundred people came out learn about Jacksonville's forgotten spaces and what can be done about them. We're hosting another one about transit in a few months. The goal is to get people better informed about urban issues to help push things in a positive direction. It may not be a big, showstopping move, but I like to think it got people thinking in a new way.
Quote from: Tacachale on October 25, 2018, 05:39:56 PM
I can give you an example of something we did this week. We hosted a talk with WJCT where over a hundred people came out learn about Jacksonville's forgotten spaces and what can be done about them. We're hosting another one about transit in a few months. The goal is to get people better informed about urban issues to help push things in a positive direction. It may not be a big, showstopping move, but I like to think it got people thinking in a new way.
I couldn't make it to the WJCT forum. Can a transcript of it be posted here?
Cool.
WJCT is working on putting the panel discussion in video/radio/podcast format.
Quote from: Kiva on October 25, 2018, 07:03:27 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on October 25, 2018, 05:39:56 PM
I can give you an example of something we did this week. We hosted a talk with WJCT where over a hundred people came out learn about Jacksonville's forgotten spaces and what can be done about them. We're hosting another one about transit in a few months. The goal is to get people better informed about urban issues to help push things in a positive direction. It may not be a big, showstopping move, but I like to think it got people thinking in a new way.
I couldn't make it to the WJCT forum. Can a transcript of it be posted here?
http://news.wjct.org/post/jaxson-panel-discusses-forgotten-spaces-places-reimagined
Quote from: Kerry on October 25, 2018, 03:09:48 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on October 25, 2018, 01:05:34 AM
Quote from: Kerry on October 24, 2018, 11:40:58 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on October 24, 2018, 10:55:14 PM
^There are things RAP can be reasonably criticized for, but it's true that it's a lot easier to sit here and kvetch than to get up and do something.
I would be all in favor of forming a group that demanded some action from the City. Hell, we can meet at my Brooklyn apartment. Sitting around and doing nothing is the thing I hate the most - and the thing Jax is best at. I have a whole list of things the City could do unilaterally that would make big improvements - from practically free to radical change.
Kerry, what's frustrating about incessant negativity is that many of us are actually out there
Can you give me an example of something you are trying to change/improve about urban Jax?
I'll give you an example I would like to see done - a bike sharing program. I travel to cities all over the country and darn near every one of them has a bike share and there are 2 rouge scooter share companies that just randomly drop their scooters around cities. Not only can we not get a legal bike share system we can't even get the law-flaunting scooter companies to drop their illegal scooters here.
https://www.google.com/search?q=scooters+dropped+downtown&gws_rd=ssl
2nd time JTA has tried to attract a bike share program to Jax.
https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/bike-share-program-proposed-for-jacksonville/ (https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/bike-share-program-proposed-for-jacksonville/)
The first was through a failed TIGER grant application in 2014
https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-may-extending-the-skyway-and-bike-share-in-jaxs-future (https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-may-extending-the-skyway-and-bike-share-in-jaxs-future)
Members of this forum have had a hand in both efforts :)
Why is JTA doing this instead of the City?
They're in the business of mobility and bike share is a first/last mile form of mobility.
The City isn't in the mobility business? JTA is a State agency. Was the State involved with any of the other bike share programs in the state?
Seems to me this should at least be a DIA effort.
https://www.wptv.com/news/region-s-palm-beach-county/boynton-beach/boynton-beach-looks-at-bike-sharing-for-the-city
No, the city isn't in the multimodal mobility business. It makes all the sense in the world for bike share to be coordinated with mass transit. JTA isn't the first transit agency to try to coordinate the placement and operation of first/last mile solutions like bike share with their transit stops:
http://betterbikeshare.org/2018/01/19/pittsburgh-milwaukee-explain-linked-bike-share-transit/
http://libraryarchives.metro.net/DPGTL/bikeplans/Metro-Bike-Share-Business-Plan-04172018-Final.pdf
https://www.eugene-or.gov/2551/Bike-Share
http://www.govtech.com/fs/Bay-Area-Agencies-See-Smart-Bike-Program-as-Last-Mile-Transit-Solution.html
The main thing for JTA and Jacksonville is not to think or plan in silos. Bikes/scooters, etc. can be clustered around Skyway stations but the real destinations they need to naturally tie into are places away from the Skyway's path.....Five Points, TIAA Bank Field, San Marco Square, 8th & Main, Brooklyn, Jacksonville Farmers Market, etc.
Well the RFP from JTA does none of that and appears to promote a dockless model - which is practically worthless. Sorry, not getting my hopes up.
The RFP appears to promote the use of Skyway stations as bike stations. That doesn't sound like dockless to me. However, it does sound like a waste of money since the expensive bike stations that popped up a decade ago aren't actually needed. With that said, the four firms who responded specialize in different areas, so I don't believe every proposal will be identical. I'm looking forward to hearing what they've come up with.
Also, you don't have to get your hopes up but in one of these threads you mentioned your desire for bike share.....well someone is attempting to make that happen. Let's see how it plays out.
The RFP says the bikes have to be self-locking. Maybe that means they have to lock themselves into the docking station but I read it has being able to lock themselves to nothing since it says they have to be able to standup on their own while locked.
Yes, I would love a bike share system. Here's to hoping I'm wrong about this attempt.
I personally prefer dockless because I believe that's more financially viable without the support of public dollars. However, I won't lose any sleep if someone proposes $40k bike stations but has a business model that is still self sufficient. I still have a lot of questions about this proposal but I'll wait till the end of the month for more information to be released.
The problem I have with dockless is that it isn't dependable. You never know where a bike is going to be. While working in OKC there was a station 3 blocks from my apartment and 1 block from my office. I knew every morning there would be between 4 and 8 bikes in the rack. Dockless? Who the heck knows where a bike could be. At that point it stops being a transportation option.
I've only used them once. I found them more convenient because they were literally everywhere while the traditional bike stations they were competing against were in select locations that I had to go out of my way to find or use. No matter how far out I was from the major tourist areas, a few bikes could be found within close proximity with the use of their app. But that was in San Diego. I assume whatever comes to Jax won't be as robust.
Quote from: Kerry on November 02, 2018, 10:48:59 PM
The problem I have with dockless is that it isn't dependable. You never know where a bike is going to be. While working in OKC there was a station 3 blocks from my apartment and 1 block from my office. I knew every morning there would be between 4 and 8 bikes in the rack. Dockless? Who the heck knows where a bike could be. At that point it stops being a transportation option.
I'm jumping in here just to follow the thread, but I'm pretty sure the same tech that tells you where your Uber driver is would be able to locate a 'dockless' bike near you.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the point isn't about can the bikes be found, the point is that you can't count on them being where you need them when you need them.
In a small, hyper dense city where a dockless provider can throw 100,000 bikes onto the streets, it may work well enough for most people. Everyone is living on top of everyone else so if I leave the bike outside my workplace, chances are someone else will be right there looking for a bike.
The problem is that the program in the US is a flop. If you look at Seattle's program, they constantly have to reposition bikes, with bikes stranded in low density areas for days or weeks. Other cities that have done it on a large scale have had to put a lot of resources into regulating and policing the bike share as broken bikes were discarded. Understandably since labor costs are high compared to the costs of new bikes. Why would the company worry about spending $150 -- remember, labor is expensive -- to retrieve and fix a bike when a new one didn't cost them much more than that?
If a private investor wants to give it a go, I'd love for the city to work with them to get it to happen. I just don't want to see the city putting money into it. A lot of these bike share companies are arms of bigger companies like Trek. And they're arguably using them to get the public to shell out big $ just to sell more bikes & collect a sweet management fee under the smoke screen of "sustainability".
The RFP states the operator runs the system without funding assistance from JTA. If that's the case, dockless is definitely cheaper than building bike stations at Skyway stops. Especially since our true destinations aren't adjacent to the Skyway.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on November 03, 2018, 10:45:02 PM
Quote from: Kerry on November 02, 2018, 10:48:59 PM
The problem I have with dockless is that it isn't dependable. You never know where a bike is going to be. While working in OKC there was a station 3 blocks from my apartment and 1 block from my office. I knew every morning there would be between 4 and 8 bikes in the rack. Dockless? Who the heck knows where a bike could be. At that point it stops being a transportation option.
I'm jumping in here just to follow the thread, but I'm pretty sure the same tech that tells you where your Uber driver is would be able to locate a 'dockless' bike near you.
I selected my apartment in OKC specifically because of its proximity to 2 things - a grocery store and the bikeshare station. I didn't have a car so the bikeshare was 100% of my transportation. I couldn't risk my transportation to chance. If it had been a dockless system I would of had to buy a bike and keep it in my studio apartment.
thanks for the info Debbie
Well, if people who would be their most regular customers have to buy their own it kind of defeats their business model.
They've figured out how to do dockless stations or hubs. If they did not work, they'd disappear since we're talking about a private sector business as opposed to public.
Quote from: Kerry on November 04, 2018, 07:53:18 PM
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on November 03, 2018, 10:45:02 PM
Quote from: Kerry on November 02, 2018, 10:48:59 PM
The problem I have with dockless is that it isn't dependable. You never know where a bike is going to be. While working in OKC there was a station 3 blocks from my apartment and 1 block from my office. I knew every morning there would be between 4 and 8 bikes in the rack. Dockless? Who the heck knows where a bike could be. At that point it stops being a transportation option.
I'm jumping in here just to follow the thread, but I'm pretty sure the same tech that tells you where your Uber driver is would be able to locate a 'dockless' bike near you.
I selected my apartment in OKC specifically because of its proximity to 2 things - a grocery store and the bikeshare station. I didn't have a car so the bikeshare was 100% of my transportation. I couldn't risk my transportation to chance. If it had been a dockless system I would of had to buy a bike and keep it in my studio apartment.
Or choose a different apartment to move to that fit your needs? Just sayin'
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on November 05, 2018, 08:46:39 AM
Quote from: Kerry on November 04, 2018, 07:53:18 PM
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on November 03, 2018, 10:45:02 PM
Quote from: Kerry on November 02, 2018, 10:48:59 PM
The problem I have with dockless is that it isn't dependable. You never know where a bike is going to be. While working in OKC there was a station 3 blocks from my apartment and 1 block from my office. I knew every morning there would be between 4 and 8 bikes in the rack. Dockless? Who the heck knows where a bike could be. At that point it stops being a transportation option.
I'm jumping in here just to follow the thread, but I'm pretty sure the same tech that tells you where your Uber driver is would be able to locate a 'dockless' bike near you.
I selected my apartment in OKC specifically because of its proximity to 2 things - a grocery store and the bikeshare station. I didn't have a car so the bikeshare was 100% of my transportation. I couldn't risk my transportation to chance. If it had been a dockless system I would of had to buy a bike and keep it in my studio apartment.
Or choose a different apartment to move to that fit your needs? Just sayin'
Or buy a Brompton folding bike. They take up barely any room whatsoever and are a joy to ride. And they're a bit of a 'thing' too.
Quote from: Adam White on November 05, 2018, 08:58:13 AM
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on November 05, 2018, 08:46:39 AM
Quote from: Kerry on November 04, 2018, 07:53:18 PM
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on November 03, 2018, 10:45:02 PM
Quote from: Kerry on November 02, 2018, 10:48:59 PM
The problem I have with dockless is that it isn't dependable. You never know where a bike is going to be. While working in OKC there was a station 3 blocks from my apartment and 1 block from my office. I knew every morning there would be between 4 and 8 bikes in the rack. Dockless? Who the heck knows where a bike could be. At that point it stops being a transportation option.
I'm jumping in here just to follow the thread, but I'm pretty sure the same tech that tells you where your Uber driver is would be able to locate a 'dockless' bike near you.
I selected my apartment in OKC specifically because of its proximity to 2 things - a grocery store and the bikeshare station. I didn't have a car so the bikeshare was 100% of my transportation. I couldn't risk my transportation to chance. If it had been a dockless system I would of had to buy a bike and keep it in my studio apartment.
Or choose a different apartment to move to that fit your needs? Just sayin'
Or buy a Brompton folding bike. They take up barely any room whatsoever and are a joy to ride. And they're a bit of a 'thing' too.
Or just hang onto the belief that a bike-share docking station was the reason you moved somewhere....
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on November 03, 2018, 10:45:02 PM
Quote from: Kerry on November 02, 2018, 10:48:59 PM
The problem I have with dockless is that it isn't dependable. You never know where a bike is going to be. While working in OKC there was a station 3 blocks from my apartment and 1 block from my office. I knew every morning there would be between 4 and 8 bikes in the rack. Dockless? Who the heck knows where a bike could be. At that point it stops being a transportation option.
I'm jumping in here just to follow the thread, but I'm pretty sure the same tech that tells you where your Uber driver is would be able to locate a 'dockless' bike near you.
The difference is the Uber Driver also sees where you are and comes to you. I'd love to see the bike do that.
Quote from: Kerry on November 04, 2018, 07:53:18 PM
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on November 03, 2018, 10:45:02 PM
Quote from: Kerry on November 02, 2018, 10:48:59 PM
The problem I have with dockless is that it isn't dependable. You never know where a bike is going to be. While working in OKC there was a station 3 blocks from my apartment and 1 block from my office. I knew every morning there would be between 4 and 8 bikes in the rack. Dockless? Who the heck knows where a bike could be. At that point it stops being a transportation option.
I'm jumping in here just to follow the thread, but I'm pretty sure the same tech that tells you where your Uber driver is would be able to locate a 'dockless' bike near you.
I selected my apartment in OKC specifically because of its proximity to 2 things - a grocery store and the bikeshare station. I didn't have a car so the bikeshare was 100% of my transportation. I couldn't risk my transportation to chance. If it had been a dockless system I would of had to buy a bike and keep it in my studio apartment.
I don't know what the hell is going on here...but I'm actually seeing Kerry's point twice this morning.
Would I choose to locate my residence near a bike share station? Likely not personally. But....I see the argument and it's the same one I've made (along with a million other people) about an advantage of Rail Over Bus: Spurs Transit Oriented Development. Rarely will a developer build something next to a Bus Stop because it can be moved. But, plenty of developers build next to a Rail Stop.
Quote from: Steve on November 05, 2018, 09:03:58 AM
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on November 03, 2018, 10:45:02 PM
Quote from: Kerry on November 02, 2018, 10:48:59 PM
The problem I have with dockless is that it isn't dependable. You never know where a bike is going to be. While working in OKC there was a station 3 blocks from my apartment and 1 block from my office. I knew every morning there would be between 4 and 8 bikes in the rack. Dockless? Who the heck knows where a bike could be. At that point it stops being a transportation option.
I'm jumping in here just to follow the thread, but I'm pretty sure the same tech that tells you where your Uber driver is would be able to locate a 'dockless' bike near you.
The difference is the Uber Driver also sees where you are and comes to you. I'd love to see the bike do that.
It does in Soviet Union.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on November 05, 2018, 09:02:02 AM
Quote from: Adam White on November 05, 2018, 08:58:13 AM
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on November 05, 2018, 08:46:39 AM
Quote from: Kerry on November 04, 2018, 07:53:18 PM
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on November 03, 2018, 10:45:02 PM
Quote from: Kerry on November 02, 2018, 10:48:59 PM
The problem I have with dockless is that it isn't dependable. You never know where a bike is going to be. While working in OKC there was a station 3 blocks from my apartment and 1 block from my office. I knew every morning there would be between 4 and 8 bikes in the rack. Dockless? Who the heck knows where a bike could be. At that point it stops being a transportation option.
I'm jumping in here just to follow the thread, but I'm pretty sure the same tech that tells you where your Uber driver is would be able to locate a 'dockless' bike near you.
I selected my apartment in OKC specifically because of its proximity to 2 things - a grocery store and the bikeshare station. I didn't have a car so the bikeshare was 100% of my transportation. I couldn't risk my transportation to chance. If it had been a dockless system I would of had to buy a bike and keep it in my studio apartment.
Or choose a different apartment to move to that fit your needs? Just sayin'
Or buy a Brompton folding bike. They take up barely any room whatsoever and are a joy to ride. And they're a bit of a 'thing' too.
Or just hang onto the belief that a bike-share docking station was the reason you moved somewhere....
Quit under-selling that grocery store, NRW.
Not trying to be the European edition of Simms or anything, but I found this article to be interesting. Currently, London has a well-established system for docked cycles and now has two dockless operators flogging their wares.
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/apr/14/dockless-bike-hire-scheme-ofo-mobike-santander-cycles
Basically, there's an app and you use it to find the bikes. Spoiler alert: it only works so well.
Quote from: Adam White on November 05, 2018, 09:07:01 AM
Quote from: Steve on November 05, 2018, 09:03:58 AM
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on November 03, 2018, 10:45:02 PM
Quote from: Kerry on November 02, 2018, 10:48:59 PM
The problem I have with dockless is that it isn't dependable. You never know where a bike is going to be. While working in OKC there was a station 3 blocks from my apartment and 1 block from my office. I knew every morning there would be between 4 and 8 bikes in the rack. Dockless? Who the heck knows where a bike could be. At that point it stops being a transportation option.
I'm jumping in here just to follow the thread, but I'm pretty sure the same tech that tells you where your Uber driver is would be able to locate a 'dockless' bike near you.
The difference is the Uber Driver also sees where you are and comes to you. I'd love to see the bike do that.
It does in Soviet Union.
Got it. I'm not questioning the technological ability to power a bicycle without a dude driving. I question whether or not the regulation will allow it to happen anytime soon.
I'm betting no for a variety of reasons. This topic came up at a supply chain conference recently (autonomous vehicles). Long story short, no one thinks this is happening anytime soon in a widespread manner due to regulation.
Quote from: Steve on November 05, 2018, 09:22:03 AM
Quote from: Adam White on November 05, 2018, 09:07:01 AM
Quote from: Steve on November 05, 2018, 09:03:58 AM
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on November 03, 2018, 10:45:02 PM
Quote from: Kerry on November 02, 2018, 10:48:59 PM
The problem I have with dockless is that it isn't dependable. You never know where a bike is going to be. While working in OKC there was a station 3 blocks from my apartment and 1 block from my office. I knew every morning there would be between 4 and 8 bikes in the rack. Dockless? Who the heck knows where a bike could be. At that point it stops being a transportation option.
I'm jumping in here just to follow the thread, but I'm pretty sure the same tech that tells you where your Uber driver is would be able to locate a 'dockless' bike near you.
The difference is the Uber Driver also sees where you are and comes to you. I'd love to see the bike do that.
It does in Soviet Union.
Got it. I'm not questioning the technological ability to power a bicycle without a dude driving. I question whether or not the regulation will allow it to happen anytime soon.
I'm betting no for a variety of reasons. This topic came up at a supply chain conference recently (autonomous vehicles). Long story short, no one thinks this is happening anytime soon in a widespread manner due to regulation.
I was just making a dumb Yakov Smirnoff 'joke' (like, in Soviet Union, bicycle pedals YOU!)
Quote from: Steve on November 05, 2018, 09:03:58 AM
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on November 03, 2018, 10:45:02 PM
Quote from: Kerry on November 02, 2018, 10:48:59 PM
The problem I have with dockless is that it isn't dependable. You never know where a bike is going to be. While working in OKC there was a station 3 blocks from my apartment and 1 block from my office. I knew every morning there would be between 4 and 8 bikes in the rack. Dockless? Who the heck knows where a bike could be. At that point it stops being a transportation option.
I'm jumping in here just to follow the thread, but I'm pretty sure the same tech that tells you where your Uber driver is would be able to locate a 'dockless' bike near you.
The difference is the Uber Driver also sees where you are and comes to you. I'd love to see the bike do that.
Not really about the bike coming to you, but you could see if there are any bikes nearby as you're planning your day.
Is it really any different than coming out and finding zero bikes in the rack?
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on November 05, 2018, 09:53:46 AM
Quote from: Steve on November 05, 2018, 09:03:58 AM
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on November 03, 2018, 10:45:02 PM
Quote from: Kerry on November 02, 2018, 10:48:59 PM
The problem I have with dockless is that it isn't dependable. You never know where a bike is going to be. While working in OKC there was a station 3 blocks from my apartment and 1 block from my office. I knew every morning there would be between 4 and 8 bikes in the rack. Dockless? Who the heck knows where a bike could be. At that point it stops being a transportation option.
I'm jumping in here just to follow the thread, but I'm pretty sure the same tech that tells you where your Uber driver is would be able to locate a 'dockless' bike near you.
The difference is the Uber Driver also sees where you are and comes to you. I'd love to see the bike do that.
Not really about the bike coming to you, but you could see if there are any bikes nearby as you're planning your day.
Is it really any different than coming out and finding zero bikes in the rack?
Not different than not finding a bike, but I can't necessarily guarantee a bike will be outside my office at 5pm.
The problem here is JTA's RFP basically directs the potential location of bike stations to Skyway stations. They aren't the most convenient either. So knowing a bike station is located at Jefferson Station does you no good if you're working or living in Brooklyn.
Quote from: thelakelander on November 05, 2018, 10:21:46 AM
The problem here is JTA's RFP basically directs the potential location of bike stations to Skyway stations. They aren't the most convenient either. So knowing a bike station is located at Jefferson Station does you no good if you're working or living in Brooklyn.
That I agree with. Sounds like that while certain stations do make sense for bike share, they need to just place them at different locations.
Or do the dockless thing I guess.
Quote from: thelakelander on November 05, 2018, 10:21:46 AM
The problem here is JTA's RFP basically directs the potential location of bike stations to Skyway stations. They aren't the most convenient either. So knowing a bike station is located at Jefferson Station does you no good if you're working or living in Brooklyn.
Not to mention that the Skyway doesn't even run on weekends. Integrating bike share to a system that isn't even operational 7 days a week makes zero sense.
Quote from: Steve on November 05, 2018, 10:50:19 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on November 05, 2018, 10:21:46 AM
The problem here is JTA's RFP basically directs the potential location of bike stations to Skyway stations. They aren't the most convenient either. So knowing a bike station is located at Jefferson Station does you no good if you're working or living in Brooklyn.
That I agree with. Sounds like that while certain stations do make sense for bike share, they need to just place them at different locations.
Or do the dockless thing I guess.
Yeah, there has to be a balance if someone is also expected to fully fund, operate and maintain a system without public money. If forced into having to purchase and maintain traditional bike station infrastructure, some Skyway station locations will equate to lighting good money on fire.
Honestly, what kind of RFP is this. Hell, I guess I could have sent out my own RFP.
1) Looking for Bike Share Implementor/opeartor to 100% fund their own system in Jax Fl.
Dang, I should have thought of this 5 years ago.